Graham on discussing Mueller probe with Trump, Iran policy

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Graham on discussing Mueller probe with Trump, Iran policy

Senator Lindsey Graham discussed Robert Mueller's Russia investigation with President Trump; Graham shares insight about this and more on 'The Story.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," August 8, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HARRIS FAULKNER, GUEST HOST: Breaking news, Rudy Giuliani, says it may be "the last, best chance" Special Counsel Robert Mueller has to secure President Trump's testimony.

The president's legal team now laying down a deadline for its negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD (via telephone): We have now given him an answer. He obviously, he should take a few days to consider it. But, we should get this resolved. We do not want to run into the November elections. So you back up from that, this should be over with by September 1st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Good evening, in primetime, I'm Harris Faulkner, in tonight for Martha MacCallum. September 1st is a little more than three weeks away and a short time for the two sides to come to an agreement considering these negotiations have been in the works for months.

The president has said publicly that he'd like to answer Mueller's questions, his lawyers have said the same. And today, the president's legal team made a counteroffer to the special counsel. Playing hardball as it negotiates the terms of a potential interview. Some reports indicate the offer includes a condition, the president won't be asked about obstruction of justice.

So, this is where the attorneys stand tonight. But what about President Trump's state of mind? Senator Lindsey Graham spoke directly with the president about all of it. He joins me exclusively in moments.

First, chief national correspondent Ed Henry, live in Washington with Fox top story. Ed?

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Harris, great to see you. The president's legal team is also saying tonight, this is a good faith attempt to try and meet the special counsel part of the way, and wrap up this investigation, as you say, by September first important, because that would be ahead of the midterms.

And while that may seem like a stretch at this point in the game, the fact is earlier this year, Robert Mueller signaled he would have most of his work done by the summer and that deadline has clearly been blown away.

Back in April, the Washington Post reported, Mueller was planning to release at least two big reports on the Russia probe in various stages. The first coming in June or July focused on whether the president was involved in obstruction. And a second report later on the broader question of Russian interference.

The caveat back then, according to the post, was that in a meeting with the president's legal team months ago, "Mueller reiterated the need to interview Trump, both to understand whether he had any corrupt intent to thwart the Russia investigation and to complete this obstruction of justice portion of his probe."

Now, Mueller originally proposed a wide-ranging interview with the president. His attorneys Rudy Giuliani, and Jay Sekulow believe that could set up a series of perjury traps. So, after the special counsel last week offered to tighten the focus somewhat, Giuliani and Sekulow today tried to narrow it even more.

Shying away from questions for the president about obstruction, in part. Because they're making the case the president has vast executive power to hire and fire officials like former FBI director James Comey.

And on Sekulow's radio show today, he and Giuliani offered an extraordinary window into their strategy deliberations admitting they will be second- guessed if the president goes forward with the interview and it all blows up. But saying it's his call even if they advise against him doing it. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY SEKULOW, CHIEF COUNSEL, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE: If the president puts up -- goes up for an interview, they're going to say, "Why would these lawyers let him do it?" The same lawyers, if we don't allow, if we recommend him not do an interview, they're going to say, "What are they hiding?" There is no win for the lawyers here, but we have to do what's best for our client.

GIULIANI: Our client is the President of the United States, and we can make sure that he's protected. But he has to ultimately make the decision himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Bottom line, these two sides are still pretty far apart because Mueller, wants to press questions like obstruction, and if they do not agree to a voluntary interview, Mueller may have to subpoena the president, he's threatened that privately. A battle that could go all the way to the Supreme Court. Harris?

FAULKNER: I bring now my first guest who recently talked with the president directly about the Mueller investigation. And it happened during a golf game. So that's the connection there.

South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham is with us now. Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Great to see you tonight, Senator.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C., SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you.

FAULKNER: So, the president brings this up on the golf course. How does that happen and what did you tell him?

GRAHAM: He said the same thing to me that he says to everybody when he's out in public. He thinks this is a witch hunt, he didn't do anything wrong. I said, Mr. President, I've seen no evidence of collusion between you and the Russians. I don't think you collude with your own government. Why do you -- why do we think you collude with the Russians?

I've been looking at it for two years, just got to be patient and let it run its course, and it will. And we're going to make sure he's treated fairly and nothing untoward he didn't suggest anything other than he's frustrated. And I don't blame him for being frustrated. This thing is going on for a very long time.

FAULKNER: Yes, and that frustration played out. I know I've heard you say that it was about 20 or so times that he asked you about this. Your --

GRAHAM: I was joking. I was joking.

FAULKNER: OK. All right, well, what did you want him to kind of really hook into as we go forward? Because as I understand it, yes you've got to be patient. But you said, you don't want to hand losses to Republicans. How would that go?

GRAHAM: Well, if we shut down the Mueller investigation politically, then it would be the only thing anybody talked about. It would -- you know, take off the news, all the great things the president's done on foreign policy and domestic. And, you know, let's just let this thing go.

If he doesn't issue a report soon, then I hope you'll wait to after the election. Again, I've looked at this thing pretty close. I've seen zero evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign, President Trump, and the Russians.

There was an effort to meddle in our election by the Russians. Collusion and meddling are two different things. Trump beat Clinton, not the Russians. And I told the president, you just got to let it run its course. I know you're frustrated, and we'll see what happens here.

FAULKNER: Other advice that you might have given him -- you know, the big story today is the handing off now, the response if you will from the president's legal team. The handing off their list of what they'd like to see as conditions for a sit-down with Bob Mueller. What do you say about it?

GRAHAM: Well, we didn't talk about that. And again, the president is frustrated with the investigation going too long. He thinks he did nothing wrong, and you know, he makes a good point. Look at what they did with a Clinton e-mail investigation. The FBI agent in charge of the Clinton e- mail investigation hated Trump-like Clinton nothing's happened.

The FISA warrant came from a document prepared by somebody on the Democratic Party's payroll, and he feels like there's a double standard here. One of the things that we didn't talk about at it, know about it until yesterday.

Apparently, about five years ago, the FBI told Dianne Feinstein, one of her employees may be an agent of the Chinese government. That was the right thing to do and she fired him. I'm going to send a letter to Director Wray, next week, and ask him, what is the policy? Why didn't you tell President Trump that you had concerns about Carter Paige? Is there a double standard here?

If this was a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation, the FBI should have told President Trump they are concerns about Papadopoulos and Paige. Why didn't they do for Trump what they did for Feinstein?

FAULKNER: Yes, I want to step back just a second to Dianne Feinstein. The Senator was made aware, she then went on ahead and fired this spy.

GRAHAM: Yes, right.

FAULKNER: And now, you're sending a letter to Christopher Wray. Are you - - are you feeling like that needs more investigation right now? And what you --

GRAHAM: You better believe it.

FAULKNER: OK, what do you want him to do exactly? And do we need to step back even further?

GRAHAM: Sure.

FAULKNER: Yes, and take a look at anybody else.

GRAHAM: I'm saying, what the hell is going on at the FBI? Why do -- why do you tell a Democrat when they hire somebody connected to China? It could happen to anybody's office.

FAULKNER: Right.

GRAHAM: When the FBI finds out that somebody's working for us, may have connections to a foreign government, they should tell us and Dianne Feinstein acted responsibly.

When it comes to the Trump campaign, why didn't they tell him about Papadopoulos or Carter Page? And at the end of the day what does Carter Page did wrong -- has done wrong? He still walking around, a free man.

(CROSSTALK)

FAULKNER: Senator, when I said step back, Paul Manafort is on trial right now. Why didn't the FBI discuss Paul Manafort with the Trump campaign in more details? I mean, I -- that's what do I mean. How far back we need to go?

GRAHAM: This is (INAUDIBLE). Here is the point, a counterintelligence investigation is designed to protect American institutions from infiltration. The right thing for the FBI to do is if they find somebody's working for a political campaign or Bank or any part of the government is to inform the people in charge that this person you hired has got unsavory connections.

That's what they did for Feinstein. Why did they not do that when it came to Manafort, Gates, and Papadopoulos? Why did they ignore that? If they did have a confidential informant, what did the informant learn about the Trump campaign in Russia? Apparently, nothing.

FAULKNER: A breaking news with that letter that you're going to give to the FBI director. And I didn't mean to put more names on your list, but as we look at who might have told, whom, what? Those certainly seemed like a couple of names that need to be added as you just said. I want to talk about Iran.

GRAHAM: Sure.

FAULKNER: I read a statement from you today. And it was one of those things where if -- would it have made a difference a few years ago if the Iranian citizens had, had somebody to advocate the way you did in the statement. You feel very strongly that this is the time, again, to support any kind of revolution that might pop. What's happening, why?

GRAHAM: Well, President Trump, if you're listening, what you're doing with Iran is long overdue and it is working. You see this regime for who they are? This is a murderous regime driven by a religious philosophy that will not allow Iran to ever be a peaceful member of the family and Nations.

The Ayatollah is a religious Nazi. He wants a master religion. He wants to purify Islam and destroy Israel and come after us. World peace and the Ayatollah cannot fit in the same sentence. You got him on the ropes to our European allies.

It's disgraceful that you're picking this regime over the people. That you want to do business with this man who's dismembered the Mideast, openly about trying to destroy the State of the Israel, and it's the largest state sponsor of terrorism.

If President Trump will keep it up, European businesses are going to pick our economy over Iran. It's not if this regime falls, is just a matter of when if we keep the pressure on, and I think it's working.

FAULKNER: You know this week, the President of Iran said that he wanted to see if we could be sincere if we were interested in getting another deal. I'm thinking you're not really interested in offering up sincerity.

Before I let you go when you play golf with the president, do you let him win?

GRAHAM: I tried my best to beat him, but I just can't. For me to beat him, he's got to get to be 80, and I got to shoot 80 which is both hard.

FAULKNER: Oh, listen.

GRAHAM: But he's a -- he's a gracious host, he's a lot of fun, he's doing a good job, we have a good time. And any deal with Iran that they would honor is probably not worth having, I just want to thank President Trump for resetting our foreign policy leading from the front, taking on dictators and thugs like the Ayatollah. We're going to bring about regime change without firing a shot.

FAULKNER: Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you very much. Great to have you from the great state of South Carolina tonight. Take care.

GRAHAM: All right, thank you.

FAULKNER: And there is breaking news tonight. At any moment, we expect to hear from New York Republican Congressman Chris Collins. We are told he will hold a news conference following that indictment of insider trading charges which broke earlier today.

Also, as we roll along in primetime, several big Tuesday races to talk about including Ohio and Kansas still too close to call almost 24 hours later. But there is one clear winner in Michigan, being called the future of the Republican Party, John James, joins me next.

And let's flip the script to the Democrats now, where Democrat socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortes, say she is the future because America is no longer soccer moms and minivans. Well, Ben Shapiro, says he has some thoughts on that. Stay put. You know, Ben, doesn't mince his words.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FAULKNER: And to the breaking news now, that news conference from New York Congressman Chris Collins that we are waiting on right now. Earlier today, just a few hours ago we were on live in "OUTNUMBERED" and the news broke of insider trading charges against this New York Congressman. His attorney at the time said he will be vindicated. He laid out a case for how this was not insider trading. However, federal prosecutors in New York also laid out their case today. This will be our first chance to hear directly from the Congressman. I should mention the Speaker of the House Paul Ryan today pulled him off an Energy Committee saying that the courts will figure this out but in the meantime, he will not be serving on that committee within the House. Chris Collins Congressman from New York when he steps up to the lectern, we'll take you there live.

Also developing at this hour, nearly 24 hours after the polls closed in five states several races are still too close to call. Ohio, the Special Election there Republican Troy Balderson is claiming victory before it has become official. He holds a slim margin with just about 1,750 votes against Democrat Danny O'Connor. In the race to be the next governor of Kansas Republican, Kris Kobach holds a 191 vote, that is slim, a lead over sitting Governor Jeff Colyer. But one race is definitive. Michigan's GOP Senate primary where Iraq war veteran John James beat fellow challenger Sandy Pensler by nine points. President Trump tweeted this. Congratulations to a future star of the Republican Party, future Senator John James a big and bold victory tonight in the great state of Michigan, the first of many. November can't come fast enough. Here now John James, the Republican nominee for Senate in Michigan. Great to have you on the program tonight. You know, just to tell people --

JOHN JAMES, R-SENATORIAL NOMINEE, MICHIGAN: Thanks for having me.

FAULKNER: -- a little bit of about what last night felt, I want to hear directly from you and now it's day one as you head down the road.

JAMES: Last night felt absolutely incredible. It was awesome to give the glory to God and also to point out the folks who got me to this point. The grassroots support that we felt since the very, very beginning, folks who believe that Michigan is truly a state that is the home of the American Dream, is the birthplace of the middle class and we're finally going to send somebody to Washington who understands what it takes to grow a business. I grew my family business in 35 million to 137 million but I also understand what it takes to keep America safe. And your last segment with Senator Graham, he spoke about something the Iranian exporting of terror and in hate and I understand that personally fighting in Iraq and fighting with Iranian trained fighters that actually took and took American lives, killed American soldiers. So I have personal experience understanding national security and I'm looking forward to bringing my experience to bear in Washington.

FAULKNER: Not to make this all about the military and Iran right now but you bring up a point that maybe people aren't aware of tonight as much but we are fighting them on the ground in Syria. I mean, they are -- they are going after our men and women on the ground there but let's move on and talk about you because you've just gotten off a stage with Vice President Pence. What did he say to you?

JAMES: Vice President Pence is 100 percent behind me. Vice President Pence and President Donald Trump are 100 behind this race because they know that Michigan is in play. They know that Debbie Stabenow is vulnerable because for 43 years as an elected official and 20 years in Washington, she's gotten nothing done for the state of Michigan. They recognize that I'm going to do everything that I can to bring economic opportunity back to the State of Michigan to continue to make sure that we tout our gains and that we don't stay on the defense. If we go on the offensive and we tell everybody that we are the party of emancipation, we are the party of suffrage, and we are the party of economic opportunity separation of powers and making sure that everybody can achieve the American dream.

FAULKNER: Yes, those are interesting things to bring up particularly from an African-American candidate and in a state like Michigan where you had just so many problems for African-American, people of color, poverty. Flint Michigan under the leadership of Democrats and I understand you want to flip that. I want to kind of leave on that line because that's what people are thinking you know, politics are local, so what will you change for Michigan and oh, by the way, did it get enough attention in 2016 from the other side of the political aisle?

JAMES: Well, I came back from Iraq because while I was over fighting I saw pictures on Armed Forces networks of areas of the places you just mentioned, Flint, Saginaw, Detroit, Benton Harbor, that looked worse than the combat zone I was flying. And so I came back and helped create jobs. And what we need to do is make sure that we continue to push for the opportunity zones that just got signed in the tax custom job act that our president moved forward. Our president's numbers are moving forward. He's in the 29 percent approval rating but right now African-Americans are in a situation where the Democratic Party is ignoring them and we have a Republican Party that's now -- we have a Republican Party now that's paying attention. I'm going to be listening, learning before I lead and I'm happy to not have a black or a white message but a red white and blue message and make sure that I bring forward and get results that Debbie Stabenow has not gotten.

FAULKNER: Red, white, and blue all the way. And thank you for your service. John James, congratulations on last night. Thanks for being on the program.

JAMES: Thanks for having me. Go to John James for senate.com. I appreciate you support. Bye, Bye.

FAULKNER: All right, he got it in there. Did you hear it, Lisa? Lisa Boothe now, Fox News Contributor on sometimes with me on "Outnumbered" so we like to -

LISA BOOTHE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Hi Harris.

FAULKNER: Hey. Chairman of the Harris Poll and former Presidential Pollster to Bill and Hillary Clinton, great to see you as well. Thank you for being on the program tonight. The Harris Poll not my own. You know, let's talk about if we can the Democrat Party right now. And opportunities -- Lisa, I'll start with you just real quickly -- opportunities maybe that are there because of a message that is leaning so far left it would seem.

BOOTHE: Well, I think right now for Democrats heading into the midterms basically what they have to run is just an anti-Trump message. You look at the totality of these special elections and it's concerning the fact that Democrats keep outperforming. However, I will caution that with the fact that special elections are special for a reason. Take for instance the Arizona Eight special election. Debbie Lesko way underperformed in that race, however, Arizona Eight is not even a competitive race looking ahead at November. So Special Elections, there's a microscope on the race so the dynamics are a little bit different than you know an actual Midterm Election race.

FAULKNER: Mark Penn, you have one thing though that we know and we have seen it and that is intensity on your side of the aisle. But it is confusing you know, who's really wearing I guess the messaging pants off the party right now? Is it the far, far left and those socialist Democrats or someone else?

MARK PENN, CHAIRMAN, HARRIS POLL: Well, I think you have to differentiate between the voters and kind of what you see on cable T.V. I think there's no question that Donald Trump is in charge of the Republican Party but he's not winning over swing voters. On the Democratic Party what we learned is socialists are not in charge of the Democratic Party. None of the Sanders backed candidates you know, emerge from their primaries. Yesterday some of them lost quite badly. This whole socialist movement has been overplayed. Ten or 20 percent of Americans are socialists. This country is not taking a turn. This party is not taking a turn to socialism. It is like that hit song it is meeting people in the middle and I think that's what you saw in last night's primaries.

FAULKNER: You know, Lisa as you go forward, we're 90 days away now. I guess you can't even really count this day. We're 89 days away now right? We're almost wrapping this one.

BOOTHE: It's kind of crazy.

FAULKNER: Is there something within the party for Republicans outside of the President's mojo is he touches down and helps candidates that they can really lean on? I'm not hearing as much about the economy and that is a local and a national issue.

BOOTHE: It is and look, I think for Republicans the biggest challenge that they have is the fact that we have so many open competitive seats and I think it's also some of these members that haven't had to run a tough race in a while. Those are the challenges Republicans are facing. However, I will also say that Republicans have in fact won eight out of the nine special elections so I think Republicans have to work a lot harder to get their voters to turn out to vote. We've already seen Dem enthusiasm is high. They're in the minority, they want to retake the House so they're going to be supercharged and excited to get to the polls so Republicans have to work harder. But I think if they do it and you know our candidates run good races, then we may lose some seats but we may not lose the House specifically.

FAULKNER: You know, Mark Penn, I'm curious, in places like where you've got Joe Manchin, Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, those particular Democrats who you know, may lean a little bit toward a center line or even right, what do you predict is going to happen with them?

PENN: Well, look, I think they are going to have tough races. But most of them are really beloved in their state. Somebody like Senator Manchin is really beloved in West Virginia. And this is where there -- is this always a national election or is it a local? Well Donald Trump is certainly nationalizing the election and making it about him and he's at 45 percent approval, not over 50, and that means that the Republicans, if that's their message because after all the Republicans don't really have a leadership, Ryan has quit, you don't have a message, there's no there's no real Republican card, it's Donald Trump and he's at 45.

The Democrats on the other hand once they shake this notion that they've moved too far to the left, they may do better in many of these races localizing it.

FAULKNER: You know it's interesting --

PENN: It's about the voters in those states, it's about people who care.

FAULKNER: We look at Ohio. We're waiting for those provisional and absentee ballots to come in but those suburbs where a lot of those are going to come in, actually the President was right around 54-55 percent in terms of his ability to win in those areas. We'll see if that translates in that race as well, too close to call as they're calling it now. It's great to see you, Mark and Lisa, thank you very much.

BOOTHE: Thank you, Harris. Have a great night.

FAULKNER: You too. Up next, the Socialist Movement not making many waves last night. We were just talking about that, despite media darling Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez flooding the Airways with ideas like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, NEW YORK: They say how are you going to pay for it as though they haven't used these same ways to pay for unlimited wars, to pay for trillion dollar tax cuts and tax cut extensions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: So I asked, and you see Ben Shapiro there, where does socialism actually work? We'll talk about it. He has a whole lot to say on this. Also, we're waiting for that news conference. Representative Chris Collins of New York charged today with insider charging, an indictment that was full faceted. His attorneys are ready to fight it but he's already been taken off at least one committee by House Speaker Paul Ryan. A lot to talk about. Our first time to hear directly from this congressman and we will bring it to you live as he steps up to the lectern stay close.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FAULKNER: Breaking news, this is what we are waiting for to start right here. This is a news conference expected by Republican Representative Chris Collins of New York, the Southern district.

So this is interesting because this will be the first time that we will have heard from him since insider trading charges were pressed by federal prosecutors in the state of New York.

His attorney has said all day long in a statement that his client will be vindicated, and there will be a case mounted with vigorous defense to clear his good name. I'm reading directly from that attorney's statement now.

As this happens, we will take you there live. They are running about 60 minutes behind, that congressmen, but and as soon as it happens you will see it here on Fox.

Meanwhile, this is developing. The future of the Democratic Party as we head into the midterms, starting tomorrow, 89 days. New York Congressional candidate and self-described Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Her way forward is the right way, she says. She has some big issues with the current outlook of her party. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: We have not had a party that has been investing in its own future. So we have people who are constantly fund-raising for their own reelection.

The average age of a House Democrat right now is 65 years old. Their heyday was in the 90s when like, you know, kids had like furbish and like, parents they had soccer moms like two vans and stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Furby and two vans.

CORTEZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a dream.

CORTEZ: That's not America anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: If we could only get her to read a book on the Middle East so she knows that Palestine is not a country.

Here's how to respond in one way, Ben Shapiro is editor in chief of Daily Wire.com. I say that with some just in my voice but not really. Because I mean, I just had on Mark Penn who used to work for the Clintons, this is not the Democratic Party of old. What is it?

BEN SHAPIRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, DAILYWIRE.COM: Well, it's the new Democratic socialist party and this is the way to the future according to Tom Perez over at the DNC.

What's really incredible about all of this is that if Republicans could simply make this a referendum on Democratic extremism on the fact that this is not even Nancy Pelosi's party anymore, it's Ocasio-Cortez's party, then Republicans would have I think a much better shot in 2018 and going into the future.

The fact is that she makes statements that are factually untrue on a regular basis, she makes claims about socialism that are wild and crazy. She wants to spend Bernie Sanders' plan. They want to spend something like $218 trillion over the next 30 years which would require a quadrupling of the percentage of GDP that we spend on government over the next 30 years.

And she doesn't have to answer a single hard question from an interviewer at any point because she refuses to do anything remotely resembling an interview with somebody else on the other side of the aisle.

FAULKNER: Yes. And that would be the only reason why the tough questions might not come. I mean, they have come and they've been difficult sometimes for her. She's, you know, all the Middle East foreign policy is not my thing so on and so forth, and she struggled in some areas.

But quite frankly, I thought her district was here in New York. And the Democrats are putting her out on the main national stage and that gets complicated no matter whom they surround her with. Like Bernie Sanders or whoever it is. I mean, you have a direct clap back to the soccer moms line.

SHAPIRO: Yes. I mean, the fact is that the soccer moms aren't driving vans anymore, they are driving SUVs. And also the purpose of having a van is that you don't have to have two of them. I'm not sure there was ever a soccer moms who had two vans. The whole purpose of a minivan is you can put everybody in one vehicle.

But it's also factually untrue. The fact is that the number of mothers in American society is actually increasing for the first time in years over the past 10 years. You are actually seeing an increase in number of women who are staying at home.

I don't know why the Democrats are now appealing to a crowd that does not include soccer moms. If they want to win elections in the future it seems like that should be, particularly the crowd that they're aiming at.

FAULKNER: You know, what is it, the passion versus the policy. I had a guest on Outnumbered overtime earlier today, Noelle Nikpour, who put it that way. And she said, as long as they stay in the passion lane that's fine. But what is the policy that goes along? What socialist country do we know of where these policies have actually worked? That's my question.

SHAPIRO: You know, they keep shifting the answer, right? The USSR they say was not socialist, they say now Cuba was not socialist and Venezuela is not socialist. Now they're really like the Nordic countries which they say are socialist, ignoring of course the fact that all wealth generated in Nordic countries was generated by capitalism and their social redistribution programs have actually created massive costs for those countries.

The attempt to label what are capitalist countries with a few socialists social systems on top of those as socialist countries as a whole. Even those countries rejected.

Denmark's prime minister came to the United States a couple years ago when Bernie Sanders was saying Denmark was a socialist country, and he said directly about Bernie Sanders, no, we're not a socialist country, we're a capitalist country.

It's easy to stand up for Marxism when you keep shifting the explanation for why Marxism has failed.

FAULKNER: Why do people want to hear about Democratic socialists? Why do you think they are listening to Ocasio-Cortez? And by the way, most Democrats say that's not my party. But generationally neither is Nancy Pelosi.

Dianne Feinstein couldn't even get an endorsement.

SHAPIRO: That's right. I mean, I think the reason why you're seeing people resonates this is because the Democrats don't actually have a lot of new ideas, and anything that looks like moderation would require them to reach across the aisle. So they're stuck between their own Trump derangement syndrome their hatred for the president, and the fact that they need a separate agenda. And this creates the need for an Ocasio-Cortez.

FAULKNER: Well, Ben Shapiro looks into it and writes about it and he's on the program tonight very candidly. Thank you. Great to see you.

SHAPIRO: You too.

FAULKNER: Up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY MCDANIEL, SON OF KOREAN WAR VETERAN: I would have never dreamed that all those coffins that were coming back had anything related to my father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: A dog tag identified in the remains returned by North Korea to the United States now back with the family of a Korean War veteran. Veteran Bill Bennett is coming up with historical significance, don't miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDANIEL: We were contacted by the Department of the Army and they said, we found one dog tag and it's your fathers.

CHARLES MCDANIEL, SON OF MISSING KOREAN WAR VETERAN: We are just overwhelmed, or I am, that all of these boxes that came back and out of all of these thousands of people that we're the only one that has certitude on at least, I mean, is it possible obviously my father is alive someplace and he lost his dog tag? I mean, that's just improbable. So we got some certitude now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: An emotional moment on the road to closure today. The military handed over the dog tag identified in the boxes of remains returned from North Korea last week to the family of Master Sergeant Charles H. McDaniel. McDaniel believed to have been killed in combat in 1950.

His sons, Charles Jr. and Larry that you just saw were so young, they had little memory of their dad.

Joining me now, Bill Bennett, host of the Bill Bennett podcast, former Secretary of Education and now Fox News contributor.

Sir, great to have you on the program tonight. And I lean in your direction because you hold so much about the history. You've served under many presidents and councils. And what do you have to add about this moment that really teaches us the meaning of those dog tags?

BILL BENNETT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Isn't it interesting, with all the things in life and all the things that matter to people that this dog tag would matter so much? It's a touch. It's an instantiation of the memory of this man and you can see how overwhelmed those young men, young man, they're called, your reporter called them young men, to have that in their hands.

And then the remains coming, as well. This is a very important fact about human nature, we treasure these memories. We treasure whatever we can put in our hand and hold onto.

We are a spiritual people, one of the most religious people in the world, Americans, and yet, this touch of mortality is something we can hold in our hand when they examine these boxes to see if they are the remains of the soldiers, will mean the world to their families.

This goes way back , way back in history even ancient times, what will happen with the body? What will you do with my remains. Hector and Achilles talked about that at Troy, and Hector says, let's return the body, whoever wins, return the body to the others family.

Achilles refuses and doesn't then humiliates him by humiliating the body. And what's interesting here is the family of Hector grieves not only for his death but the humiliation of his body.

FAULKNER: Wowo. A deep reminder of those principles that are so much ingrained in war. As a military grad, I have heard that story many times my life over.

BENNETT: Sure.

FAULKNER: But it bears reminding us.

BENNETT: Sure.

FAULKNER: Because this is such a hinge point now in history. We have an armistice in place, and it's just the end of fighting 65 years ago that Korean War. There's so much more ground to really work over to get to the point where we actually call it peace. And in part of that process, it is what you say, the respect of the war dead and this is just the beginning of this journey now.

BENNETT: That's right. Yes. Our younger son is a marine. You know they say as other servicemen do, we leave no man behind. In some cases it was necessary to leave the man behind but now something of that man comes back. Something of that man returns.

And again, I just have to say what that means, that gift back, that recovery back mean so much. People are then able to have something tangible, by means of which they can remember.

It's a very solemn thing and it reminds us in the celebration of something that when my holder looks at, just what a serious and spiritual people we are. We hold these things to be of great value. And I hope everyone can appreciate what this means.

It's -- there's a wonderful line of poetry, if you allow me, and that Greece but Rome Virgil says, hereto, things mortal touch the mind and there are tears for passing things. Hereto, the honorable finds its due. And that's something like that is going to the minds of people as they gather and wait to receive this. Our thoughts are with them.

FAULKNER: Yes. And all the families who are waiting for some sort of answers along this journey toward closures as well.

BENNETT: Yes.

FAULKNER: There were 55 boxes of remains. I had the head forensic scientists and anthropologist of the Pentagon, Dr. John Berg explained to me, we don't even know if those are separate remains or if someone go together--

BENNETT: Sure.

FAULKNER: -- but there is a long road of thousands of additional possibilities for remains to come back and answer those questions about closures for family.

But for now you have given us a lot to think about in terms of history and that informs us of how to be in the future. War is a part of life unfortunately and you make it -- it have extra meeting tonight for those remains coming back from the Korean War. So thank you, Bill Bennett, for your time.

BENNETT: Shakespeare says the valiant die only once, the coward dies many times. We celebrate the valiant.

FAULKNER: Indeed.

BENNETT: Thank you.

FAULKNER: Thank you.

The great Dr. Bill Bennett was so much deep into the ocean knowledge there.

And now we turn to breaking news. We are waiting and we've just gotten word that we are closer now with Representative Chris Collins coming to the lectern, accused today in an indictment of insider trading. The question for him, perhaps he'll touch on it, what did you know and who did you tell about nonpublic information on a medical product? Did you benefit, did anyone that you know benefit?

And so those are the questions that are being asked by federal prosecutors that they have filled their case. The representative accused of insider trading stepping up to talk with the public and reporters for the very first time since those charges hit. We will take you there live as it happens.

Plus, he was the calming presence on the unrest in Ferguson, Missouri. Captain Ron Johnson is now saying a whole lot about those 13 violent days, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON JOHNSON, VEETERAN, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: I grew up there and this is currently my community and my home. Therefore this means a lot to me personally that we break this cycle of violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FAULKNER: Tomorrow marks four years since Ferguson, Missouri, descended into chaos after black teenager Michael Brown was shot and killed by a white police officer, Darren Wilson. In the days that followed, violent protests erupted and race riots ripped that city apart.

Five days later, Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol was put in charge of keeping the peace and was hailed as a hero to all sides by taking off his bulletproof vest and joining the protesters at one point.

Captain Johnson just wrote a book "Thirteen Days in Ferguson" detailing what he calls the most trying days and nights of his life, and he joins me now for an exclusive interview.

Captain Johnson, thanks for being on the program.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

FAULKNER: You know, I first just want to make the point that Darren Wilson was vindicated, he was found not to have done anything legally incorrect in shooting Michael Brown and he has now been in seclusion with his wife and child for some time. We'll get to him in a moment.

You became the face that stood between the Black Live Matters protesters and those police officers that had to do their jobs. Why did you put yourself in that position?

JOHNSON: You know, for me I was able to see both sides of it and I believe that the middle of the road was the road to travel to bring both sides together. Whatever it took to do that, I was willing to do that.

FAULKNER: Your family didn't want you to do that, they feared for your safety. And what did you tell them?

JOHNSON: I told them the day that I put on that badge there was a responsibility. I think when we get that badge we get a responsibility and that was my responsibility, to the community, to this country, to make sure that I'm here for the safety of all, and so that was my charge.

FAULKNER: You know, what impressed me at the time and I know you've written about this in your book, you wanted people to understand though, about those white police officers and that particular police force, that there were so many good people on that force. And not to judge everybody the same way.

JOHNSON: I know that's true. I think we can't judge everybody the same way. But I wanted those policemen, and we couldn't judge all those protesters the same way and that once again goes back to that middle of the road.

FAULKNER: You've written this book, what do you want people to know about this book?

JOHNSON: I want people to know that there were a lot of stories that were on the streets of Ferguson, on both sides. And a lot of things to hear and there are a lot of courage that was shown.

And that, you know, we have to make sure that we understand each other, can relate to each other, but also about faith. I think faith played a big role for me, it played a big role for a lot of the protesters and law enforcement that were out there.

FAULKNER: All right. I have to let you go, we have some breaking news. And thank you, Captain Ron Johnson.

This is Congressman Chris Collins of New York. What we were watching that news conference following an indictment of insider trading charges from earlier today. The Congressman now, let's watch together.

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