Trump's critics freak out over possible clearance changes
President Trump under fire for threatening to revoke security clearances for Obama-era intel officials; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 24, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kennedy, Juan Williams, Jason Chaffetz, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
President Trump on the road in Missouri today, pushing his agenda amid new fallout over threatening to pull security clearances from former Obama administration officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We don't apologize for America anymore. We stand up for America. We stand up for the patriots who defend America. The way we keep America great is to make at least reasonable. I'm not saying at least reasonable, at least fair trade deals, not stupid trade deals like we've put up with for 25 years. Democrats who are going so far left that nobody can believe it. They want open borders, and crime is OK. We want strong borders, and we want no crime. Other than that, we're very similar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: President Trump not addressing the controversy over security clearances, while Democrats and the media are slamming him over it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: The White House today releasing enemies list, a list of former national security officials.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: That is not what you see in a democracy. That is exactly what you see in authoritarian regimes.
RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS: This is an abuse of executive power. This is Erdogan's Turkey.
SEN. CHRIS COONS, D-DEL.: This is the sort of attack on free speech, the press, and the rights of individuals to speak out in our country that really doesn't serve the president well.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: He's got an autocratic kind of mood, the kind of thing you would see in a banana republic.
HOUSE MINORITY LEADER NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: I have been in the meetings for over 20 years, this is so extraordinary. The last thing you want in intelligence is partisanship.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: As you noticed, Greg, the president did not even mention it today, so it was like it was here today, gone tomorrow. It's like it's not going to happen, but he got everybody riled up.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: In Trump land, there's no -- what we're seeing is backlash or fallout. There's no such thing as backlash or fallout anymore because it's indistinguishable from how the press acts every day. So when they go on there and they pull out their hair, we're all like so what? This is how you react when he sneezes, so this doesn't mean anything to us. And then you have the Dems saying stuff like, well, the revoking of the security clearances are a deflection. Well, that's the worst deflection ever then because he's responding. He's actually responding to the collusion -- the collusion accusations by saying you're colluding too, and I'm gonna -- like, I'm taking away your clearances. That's not a deflection. A deflection is actually trying to change the subject. What Trump does is he intensifies the subject. If you're saying something, he goes oh, yeah, I'm saying this, and then pretty soon he turns it into another story.
PERINO: He runs to the light.
GUTFELD: He runs -- he's like a moth to the flame, which is a terrible analogy.
PERINO: In some ways, Kennedy, I wonder about him having lived in the New York media market for so long, right? And it's rough and tumble, and it's crazy, and they're all these things even though it is sort of diminishing by the day. But, in New York, he's dealt with this kind of thing a long time. And we know that in his business career, he would figure out how to utilize the media, change the subject, get the deal done. And I do think the security clearance thing was something he thought of, but is probably not going to do.
LISA MONTGOMERY KENNEDY, GUEST CO-HOST: I don't think -- and I think Paul Ryan was right and that he's essentially just trolling people, which is fine. And that's not illegal. And that's not treasonous. But in a hyper critical response of some Democrats, you know, they talk about making sure that the security apparatus and intelligence agency and officials are not partisan. But you have James Clapper, and John Brennan, and James Comey who are hyper partisan. They're the ones -- James Comey stood before congress, as you well remember, Congressman Chaffetz, stood before congress and basically talked about how objective and politically agnostic he was and he's sitting here tweeting, telling people to go vote for Democrats, which is fine. You can have free speech. You can be completely against the president. You can have any political opinion you want, but we know what the surveillance state was capable of. We know the power of these people have and the backdoor searches they were able to do on millions of Americans. And Lord only knows where that information has gone. And it seems like, in some cases, they are in fact using it to their economic, monetary advantage.
PERINO: Juan, I'll let you respond to that.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: That was lucky. I mean, there's no evidence that they abused to any economic advantage. So, Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, oh, they've monetized it, so what did they do? Do they like go get a security briefing from somebody and then sell the information to the Russians? I don't think so. I don't even think that she really meant that. What she's suggesting is, oh, maybe because they have a job, work at one of the networks, or they gave a speech, or they wrote a book. But, again, nobody has come forward and said that's the case. I mean, this is so silly. And by the way, this is the hole in your argument. The Wall Street Journal editorial page said dumb idea. I don't think there are any far left bunch of Democrat wackos on the Wall Street Journal editorial board.
PERINO: But that's actually, Jason, why I've said that I think that he threw it out there as chum in the water, everybody rose to it, but it's probably not going to go anywhere.
JASON CHAFFETZ, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, and Senator Rand Paul, I think, is one of the very first people to bring this up. And it does beg the question, these people are former employees. Why do they need to continue to get that? If they want an original classification authority, which is the legal term in which the president and certain other people can deem somebody or give them a security clearance, then do that. If Secretary Pompeo wants to go back and talk to, may be Colin Powell, because they're dealing with Saudi Arabia and they want the historical knowledge.
PERINO: Yeah.
CHAFFETZ: . then just go and give him a security clearance. But they don't need a blanket one so they can continue to be fed information, which then they go on television and go to companies and say, hey, I still get that.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: But that information and that knowledge is implicit. I mean, that's why you hire someone like John Brennan to be a correspondent at MSNBC. I don't have a problem with some like that. I don't have a problem with James Comey going out and writing a book and making money. But the idea that you have to trust me because I have the secret information and I'm going to keep you safe because I know better than anybody else, I'm sorry but I'm resentful of that attitude and it seems like they're gathering together to create a Kabul.
WILLIAMS: Kennedy, you're just wrong.
KENNEDY: I'm not wrong. There's nothing wrong about what I've just said.
WILLIAMS: Let me explain to you that, in fact, none of these people -- two of them don't even have security clearances on the list, right?
KENNEDY: According to whom?
WILLIAMS: McCabe and Comey don't even have.
KENNEDY: According to whom? Because they were read out, that doesn't mean they don't.
WILLIAMS: Hang on, hang on, hang on. And none of them -- none of them said that they are regularly going back to get security briefings. They simply have the clearance. Four million Americans have security clearance. And this is unprecedented for anybody to go back now and try to take -- the whole premise, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me finish. In response to you, the whole premise is these folks then would have knowledge that when somebody then comes to them and says, hey, can you help me? Did you grow through a situation with Iran? Did you go through a situation with Iraq? Here's what I'm thinking, what do you think, sir? You've been through this. That's all this is about.
CHAFFETZ: Greg is right. The hyper reaction to this was way over the top. It's not a suppression of any of their first amendment rights. It doesn't do anything like that.
PERINO: Well, also because it hasn't happened. And, Greg, I think that -- when I was read out, like you do, you sign a thing that I'm no longer have a security clearance and you walk away and you're walled off and you don't have access to your computer. Like there's a high side and a low side and it's actually quite stark. It doesn't mean you don't have, may be, people you can call in the agency who might tell you something, but that's leaks. And if there was something illegal that happened, maybe we need another inspector general report. But, I do want to talk about the president's ability to change the subject, intensifies the subject. Basically, he's spinning a lot of plates all at once while managing the policy. And today, he introduced a few other things at the V.A. speech. And I do think it is hard for people to keep up.
GUTFELD: That, I think -- and I don't know if you can blame him for that.
PERINO: No, it's fine.
GUTFELD: I mean, the fact is, he's not a normal politician. A politician wakes up in the morning. They have their policy breakfast. Then, they talk to somebody. Then they have their policy lunch. Then they're thinking about writing something. By the time it's 3 o'clock, for Trump, he's already done 18 things. And I do say -- I always go back to my original theory that it's because he has so much energy because he doesn't drink. It's like, if you don't drink, you're up at 5:00 in the morning. You can do anything. And it really is kind of amazing. He's decided to run a race and he's daring everybody to keep up with him.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUTFELD: You may not like the direction of where he's running, but he's saying if you want to keep up with me, keep up with me.
PERINO: So how do they figure out how to -- how to respond when it's warranted?
WILLIAMS: Oh, I know. I know.
PERINO: Because he thrived in the chaos.
WILLIAMS: Here's the answer.
PERINO: OK.
WILLIAMS: Give him a drink.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: That's terrible. That works with me, though, Juan.
WILLIAMS: I want to try it with you.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: I think what he does is he gauges the reaction. And I think that's why Paul Ryan said, you know, maybe we do need to look at whether or not someone has continued clearance after they leave government work. But at the same time, he said he's just trolling people. And so, he essentially goes and sees what the hysterical reaction is from the left, and if it is so hysterical, that their heads explode and they're brain bits on the wall, that for the president is a minor victory because we're not talking about Helsinki. We're not talking about Russia.
WILLIAMS: What happens when he calls all of us enemy of the American people? When he tries to pull NBC.
GUTFELD: Only fake news, not everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: That's a what if, as oppose to what is.
WILLIAMS: He says these things about NBC, Washington Post. He goes after everybody. Enemy of the American people, that's his words.
GUTFELD: No, he's talking about people he believes are misleading America. He's not saying everybody. And, by the way, when did he learn this? He learned this from us. This is a guy who learned how to fight from cable news. This is a relatively new practice and this fighting. It wasn't like this before. He's like this now. So, I think, we can't -- we're hypocrites if we go after him for doing exactly what we do. By the way, we have great news, North Korea, right? Is that great news, potentially? Dismantling.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Yeah. I know it should be met with skepticism, but I find it troubling to see people rooting against this, because if there is peace, it might make him look good.
PERINO: They themselves are saying they're skeptical.
GUTFELD: Yeah. You should be. But the fact, you know, if there's a possibility of lasting peace, how can you be rooting against it?
PERINO: Did somebody root against it?
GUTFELD: I think everybody who trash -- I think everybody who can't stand Trump doesn't want this to work. I actually -- and I don't think that's mind reading, I think it's pretty obvious.
KENNEDY: It's inconceivable, though. It really is. I mean, if we're to point -- if North Korea, according to President Obama, if that was our greatest global foe and were able to neutralize that situation, how could you do anything but cheer for that as a human being, let alone.
PERINO: I think the people you're talking about did cheer for it at the summit itself.
GUTFELD: They have no choice.
PERINO: And then when they didn't come to the meeting and they did their usual thing, they were like, well, we told you so. But all along, the administration has said we were very clear eye about this, we know that there were going to be stops and starts.
GUTFELD: It's still -- compared to six months ago, eight months ago, you cannot deny we have made progress.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, check with President Trump on this because I think he's been indicating he's not happy at the lack of progress.
GUTFELD: I mean, he's impatient about everything.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: All right, two new midterm warning signs that both Democrats and Republicans should pay attention to if they want to win in November.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAFFETZ: Democrats are seeing a big swing in the number of Americans who say the party has gone off course. In a new poll, 56 percent of voters say Democratic candidates are out of step with the mainstream thinking. That's a big increase from two years ago when 42 percent said the same thing, a 14-point swing. On the flip side, nearly identical numbers see Republicans is out of step, although that's remained constant over the past two years. This comes as political analyst Larry Sabato predicts for the first time Democrats are favorites to retake control of the house in the midterm, November. I think that's totally false. This is the same Larry Sabato who said Hillary Clinton was going to get 322 electoral votes and fell just a wee bit short of that. So, I don't think it's going to happen. I don't see the big blue wave out there. I don't think the Democrats have a leader and I don't think they have a message that's winning. But I think my friend Juan probably disagrees. What is the Democratic platform? Do you really think they could pull this off?
WILLIAMS: I think it's a lot of anger and disappointment with President Trump. I mean, even people who thought, oh, you know what, he's going to be more presidential once he's elected. He's going to give up twitter. Oh, he's going to actually be.
CHAFFETZ: Did you believe he was going to give up twitter?
WILLIAMS: No, I'm just -- you know, I mean, you hope, right? He's our president. He's the American president.
PERINO: What would we do if he's not tweeting. We would have nothing to talk about.
GUTFELD: We wouldn't have any A, B, or C block.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: A lot of that poll comes from the recent election victory of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Bernie Sanders and Cortez going out to Kansas and stuff, and they talk about things in a way -- especially people in the right say, oh, my God, the Democrats are becoming far left. They're going radical. Crazy folks. We can't trust them. Mainstream.
CHAFFETZ: Amen.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. But guess what? The reason Larry Sabato changed his mind, congressman, is you look at swing voters right now they are leaning strongly, and even more strongly, towards the Democrats. They see them as unlike President Trump.
CHAFFETZ: The poll said it was 14 percent more of them. Now the majority of people think the Democrats are off.
WILLIAMS: Well, let's ask them about, what do you think about having health care in this country. What do you think about.
CHAFFETZ: But that's not what the Democrats are out there talking about.
WILLIAMS: Yes, they are. Oh, boy, that's the platform that got Ocasio- Cortez elected.
KENNEDY: That's true.
CHAFFETZ: What do you think?
PERINO: I'm not sure. I always believe that I think the Republicans could hold the house, but I think recent trends are probably troubling for them a little bit if they hold. Especially this Quinnipiac poll today that shows that white, no college, voters, that net decrease just in one month was 19 points, that's a lot. And I'm not exactly sure what that is put down too, and it might be an outlier. But I would say that if the Democrats do win, it could be their worst problem because President Trump then will have something to run against, and inevitably the Democrats will overreach. They will have impeachment hearings and -- you know this.
CHAFFETZ: Yes.
PERINO: In 2014, when President Obama loses the house -- or at 2010, excuse me.
CHAFFETZ: Yeah.
PERINO: Then what happens? Hearing after hearing, call those people up, and just basically.
CHAFFETZ: Good times. I thought it was good times.
PERINO: And then what happens in 2012? President Obama wins reelection. And that could be the same scenario for President Trump.
GUTFELD: What do you think, Greg?
GUTFELD: Well, two points. About the criticism that the Democratic Party is out of step it's -- that's the definition of progressivism. It's to be out of step. In fact, they boast that they are not in step with civilization. They're progressives. They're supposed to be way ahead of you. The problem with progressives right now is that they're regressive. So they're putting the group before the identity, right? That's probably the big problem. And free speech is no longer a guarantee when you're -- they used to be the champions of free speech. Not anymore. So, for a regressive progressive, it's no longer about the content of your character but the color of your skin. That is regressive. To now -- to what now to.
WILLIAMS: Is that white? I think Trump plaque is a lot of white.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: No, he's trying to unify the country after identity politics -- but let me finish, Juan, please.
WILLIAMS: Sorry.
GUTFELD: OK. I think, Jason, it's a mistake to whistle in the dark. I think you're whistling in the dark right now. I think there's a battle between two competing flaws, the extremism that we've talked about on the left and the unpopularity of Donald Trump. Which one is going to win? Which one is going to matter more, the Democrats political extremism or Trump's unpopularity with people who are not Die Hard fans? That's where I think we are. And I think right now when you're looking at that, at times it looks like the left is in worse shape, but then sometimes it seems like Trump is. And I think it's going to go like this all the way to the end. And I'm going to do this for the end of the show.
CHAFFETZ: I think the enthusiasm gap is the thing that they don't necessarily measure. Who's going to come out and vote.
GUTFELD: But the whistling in the dark is bad because you -- what you're doing is you're going to be playing down the -- if people say, hey, Jason said we've got nothing to worry about. I'm not going to vote.
CHAFFETZ: No, but here's what is.
GUTFELD: You're actually trying to get Democrats elected, Jason. You are a member of the deep state.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CHAFFETZ: I've read a book about that.
WILLIAMS: Can you give my man a chance?
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: This is not Jim Comey.
PERINO: What about Kennedy?
(LAUGHTER)
CHAFFETZ: Kennedy, the hard part is the numbers because there's 35 senate seats up, 26 Dems are trying to protect their seats and they have to flip 23 Republicans in order to take the house.
KENNEDY: But these are not normal times. Whatever has happened in the past is not necessarily going to happen this election cycle, 2016 taught us that. You have, you know, an unpopular president, wildly unpopular with his opposition party. But at the same time, you've got a booming economy and still some ways where the economy can continue to grow. Now, if progressives, not just Democrats, because there are civil wars and Kassam in both parties, but if progressives have their way, they will foist upon us these multitrillion dollar programs that we cannot afford. It is the worst kind of state-ism wrap in do-goodery that will absolutely destroy and deplete this economy because people like lower taxes, people like economic growth. People like having jobs. People like having choices. That's American. But when you fall back on something like a single-payer system for all that is so anti-American. It is so incredibly status. It is actually communistic. And it would be the worst thing for this country.
WILLIAMS: What you know is popular with Americans.
KENNEDY: And no hyperbole there.
(CROSSTALK)
CHAFFETZ: No, we've got to cut that off because, whoa, look at the time, Juan. I'm sorry. We've run out of time.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Oh, no.
CHAFFETZ: Up next, Greg's monologue on Nikki Haley, not Nixies six, but Nikki Haley, the powerful advice to young conservatives and the growing danger of social media mobs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Nikki Haley recently spoke to some high school students. I wonder if she said it's easier than ever to make snarky remarks or take joy in opponent's mistakes or misfortunes:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMB. NIKKI HALEY, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: It's easier than ever to make snarky remarks or take joy in opponents' mistakes or misfortunes. Raise your hand if you ever posted anything online to, quote-unquote, own the libs. I know it's fun and that it can feel good.
(LAUGHTER)
HALEY: But step back and think about what you're accomplishing when you do this. Are you persuading anyone? Who are you persuading?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Now, she's right. Shutting down someone persuades no one. Still, does that matter? Mocking Dana's dog just feels good. How can I stop? But if you go online right now you're going to find two ugly sides to everything. Yet, if you decide to disarm, will the other side actually follow? Not if they read the New York Times, where an op-ed today says if you want to beat Trump, centrism is not the answer. Urging Times readers to veer left is like asking Trump to use bigger capital letters.
Fact is social media is getting way worse. On Twitter, blue-check celebrities just attacked one of their own, actor Mark Duplass for complimenting -- just complimenting -- Ben Shapiro. Right now, the left seeks scouts by mobbing people online for speech and ideas. It's digital warfare unleashed. And so, now you see the right fighting back. But there's a debate among that side: Do you take the high ground when you're attacked or do you return fire? It's mutually assured destruction. You smear me. I smear you. So maybe let's stop smearing each other.
But at some point, we need to fire Twitter from our lives. It's now a tool of vengeance employed by mobs for cheap thrills. So, Jack, you're the CEO and your company is now nothing more than an online supermarket for people selling torches and pitchforks. It's disgusting. Why not give it a rest for a day? Shut it down, look for a solution. As loud as Twitter can be, silence could be louder and more eloquent.
Thoughtful, Dana?
PERINO: It's very thoughtful. I love Nikki Haley's speech. But I've just had this visual of President Trump calling Jack Dorsey in to the cabinet room of the White House and reaching across the desk and saying you're fired.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: You know what? It's like.
PERINO: It's remarkable.
GUTFELD: There are solutions to this. I think it's easy for Nikki Haley to tell these kids not to do it because she's not there every day. But there is a way to deal with this. I think that they should let everybody have a chance to reset twitter. Just get rid of everything. Kennedy?
KENNEDY: And that's the advice you're given, especially, you know, if you've got tweets from 2008, 2009, that you've completely forgotten about, like the Guardians of the Galaxy.
GUTFELD: Yes.
KENNEDY: . director who wrote some stupid stuff, and even went on twitter a few years later saying, hey, sorry about that stupid stuff. I shouldn't have written that. I was going through a phase. And then, it was on earth and he was fired. And the question is how many scouts will it take for either side to be happy?
GUTFELD: Yeah.
KENNEDY: Because they're both doing it. And it is pretty aggressive, and there is something to be said for relying on a rational argument. Because we've gotten to a point of such intense emotionalism that people no longer remember how to make an argument.
GUTFELD: Yes.
KENNEDY: All they know how to do is punch back. And you have joggers defecating in public.
GUTFELD: Yes. I only did that once, Kennedy. Why do you bring it up on TV?
What do you think, Jason? Is this -- is this unstoppable? Is the -- is the genie out of the barn?
CHAFFETZ: Well, in -- in Europe, they're actually dealing with the right to be forgotten.
GUTFELD: I love that.
CHAFFETZ: Can you go to a place and say, "You know what? I get to erase that part"? And what, I think we as a society, on a serious note, really have to think about is how do we deal with minors? Because you've got 12- and 13-year-olds signing user agreements to go out and be out there and post all these photos.
How is it that someone hasn't sued the living daylights out of all these social media companies and won for accepting a 12-year-old's, you know, use of rights and posting up all those photos?
And I think when you're making a decision and you're underage, are you going to really have to live with it the rest of your life? Affecting your job and everything else? There are some big questions society has to answer.
WILLIAMS: By the way, I just -- I have a personal experience here to share, but I think you're onto something, where a young man came tot me for a job recognition. I recommended him for a job. He goes to the person I recommended them to. Then the person calls me several days later and says, "Have you seen this guy's Twitter and social media account? It's the --"
PERINO: Did you say, "I don't even know how?"
WILLIAMS: Because it was like a sewer. The guy -- and we had this week, one of the Milwaukee Brewers' pitchers.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: He got his -- because when he was a kid --
GUTFELD: Seventeen or so, yes.
WILLIAMS: At 17 in Maryland, he's making all these horrible racial comments. Well, guess what? Somebody digs it up now. He's an all-star.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And boom, it's a big problem.
GUTFELD: Yes. Everybody is digging up stuff on everybody else. Shouldn't we just declare amnesty?
WILLIAMS: But this is different than -- I think the argument that you guys are making about the political back and forth. I mean, the smearing.
GUTFELD: I'm more -- the political stuff doesn't bother me as much as the scalping. Like, I want to try to get -- I want to get Juan fired by finding something he said.
WILLIAMS: Yes, but the thing is that bullying like that, to Nikki Haley's point, is not persuasive.
GUTFELD: Right.
WILLIAMS: In other words, you can say, "You know what? I'm smarter than Juan. I had a better comeback than Juan.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But does it really persuade anybody that, oh, yes, I'm going to change the way I think? You know, Greg made such an interesting argument. I was thinking about this, and now I'm thinking about that. No. It just, like, makes people, as Nikki Haley said, dig in there and become angry.
PERINO: I think that is embodied in in the partisanship of the country today, or the polarization. Because the numbers are actually -- you know how you were doing this?
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: They're remarkably steady. I think everyone has basically gone to their side.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: And there's only about 9 percent of independent voters left.
WILLIAMS: So when you go like this --
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: -- can I come over?
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Will you give me a backrub? Or when you smear? The Smuckers jelly.
KENNEDY: But are they the ones in charge? Are the independents the ones who decide? Because the ones who are really not committed to either side, because both sides are so dug again. If Republicans lose, are they going to be as upset as Democrats are?
PERINO: I remember when Ann Coulter a few years ago -- maybe it was in the 2012 presidential election -- she said who cares about the independents? Just try to turn your base out. And I -- of course, the RNC was like, "Oh, my gosh. If we do that, we won't win." They did it in 2012, but they did it in 2016, but with two very different candidates. So I don't know.
GUTFELD: I don't know either. But I do know this: Shaquille O'Neal's with a shark was something else. The deep state sea stunt. See you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Has Shark Week jumped the shark? The popular show going to new extremes to get attention. Now they're putting celebrities like Shaquille O'Neal in danger.
Watch what happens when the NGA Hall of Famer is submerged in a shark cage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a shark in the cage! I've got to get him out! They are all over him. There's a shark in the cage! Get him out!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Wow. And check out former USC star Ronda Rousey. She's hand feeding one of these deep-sea creatures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Giving him food.
RONDA ROUSEY, FORMER USC STAR: Very cool. Wow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Wow, very cool. What do you think, Kennedy?
KENNEDY: The Sydney Aquarium, I don't know if that's where that was, but they have humans swimming with sharks, right next to them all the time. And if you notice, that shark is really fat. And that's what they do. They feed them a bunch so they're not going to attack you.
But it's like "Oh, a snack." It's what we all do at 11:30 at night. He wasn't actually going to attack Ronda Rousey. And I guarantee with the Shaq shark, they greased that thing up with Aquaphor just so it could wriggle into the cage. So that was -- that was as phony as my prom date's engagement.
WILLIAMS: You are such a cynic. You know, I'm very excited --
KENNEDY: A realist. There's a difference between a realist and a cynic.
WILLIAMS: You're a cynic. I'm excited about sharks.
KENNEDY: I was surprised that Henry Winkler wasn't there on his motorcycle.
GUTFELD: Nice.
WILLIAMS: You're a tough customer. You really are a tough customer.
Congressman, last year, you know, playing along with my cynical friend, they have had some trouble. Remember Michael Phelps?
CHAFFETZ: They almost killed Shark Week by putting Michael Phelps against that fake shark. It was so stupid. You had to wait 55 minutes to see, you know bom-bom, this fake thing.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CHAFFETZ: I love Shaq. Pretty much, I like everything that Shaquille O'Neal does. So put him in there with the shark. He was bigger than that shark, by the way, anyway.
GUTFELD: I know. I was expecting him to bite the shark.
WILLIAMS: Yes, yes. What about, Dana, what about the time, remember, when they said there was a monster shark and the government was lying to us about it?
PERINO: Was that the deep state?
WILLIAMS: Yes. That's deep --
CHAFFETZ: There's truth to that.
WILLIAMS: There's a lot of truth.
CHAFFETZ: I've got a book. I'm going to tell you about it.
PERINO: My -- my point was about Michael Phelps and the fake shark.
WILLIAMS: What did you think?
PERINO: Well, I couldn't -- I was like, all the hype. We did it on this show. We were so excited, and then it turned out to be a dud. So I would just like to go back to the nature films. I like to see them in their natural environment. I don't need celebrities. I like to just -- well, I'm a conservative, OK? Progressives want new things; they ruin it.
GUTFELD: Is that what you call them, "nature films"? Anyway, look --
KENNEDY: Like you read "National Geographic," the articles.
GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. Sharks are --
WILLIAMS: You know, black people are still upset about you and those magazines.
GUTFELD: Terrible. No, sharks are the ocean's Trump. We have this love- hate relationship with them. We want to get close to them, but they scare us, and they have an outside -- outsized reputation created by liberals.
If it wasn't for Steven Spielberg demonizing sharks with a tiny little movie called "Jobs." "Jobs"? We need more jobs. "Jaws." Now we think sharks are more dangerous than terrorists. You know? Everybody's out to get a shark. They're really sweet creatures.
CHAFFETZ: Would you free form, like, swim out in the ocean?
GUTFELD: Dude, I don't even take a bath.
KENNEDY: I swam in the ocean in a Great White breeding area in the Santa Monica Bay.
PERINO: Why?
KENNEDY: Because it's -- it's nice, and it's open, and it's beautiful; and you go with your friends, and you feel very alive.
But I was talking to a marine biologist who said if you actually see a white shark up close, consider yourself lucky. He doesn't want to eat you. He wants to high-fin you and then let you go on your way.
GUTFELD: You know --
KENNEDY: Very, very few people are bitten by sharks. Even fewer are killed by them.
GUTFELD: You know, Juan, the alt-right love sharks, especially the Great Whites.
KENNEDY: Oh, boy.
WILLIAMS: Oh, boy. Anyway, you know what's interesting about this, is they've got not only -- not only Shaq and Ronda Rousey. They're going to get Aaron Rodgers, the football player; Rob Gronkowski; Lindsey Vonn; Mark Cuban. All --
PERINO: They should get Jesse Watters.
GUTFELD: Watters in hot waters. Watters in waters.
PERINO: I'm advocating for Jesse Watters to go swimming with sharks.
GUTFELD: No, but you know, that would mess up his hair. He wouldn't do that.
PERINO: I don't know. I think he'd be all right.
WILLIAMS: By the way, you're so tough, but if a shark showed up on this show, you'd run.
KENNEDY: Well, if a shark showed up on this show, it would be gasping for air, because it's got gills. I think I would have the advantage, for we are on land.
WILLIAMS: Oh, is that right? You know, you're just tough, Kennedy. All right. I give up.
KENNEDY: How do you think I broke my foot? I was kicking a shark in the face.
WILLIAMS: All right. Good God, she's the Ronda Rousey of The Five.
If you're thinking about going to a concert this summer, you really should. A new study says doing so comes with some big, big, big health benefits. Huge, says the president.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KENNEDY: You watch your mouth, Gregory.
Being a music fan, like me, now comes with some surprising perks, and you don't have to compromise yourself to get backstage. According to a new study, the bright lights, screaming crowds, and pulsating beats that come with attending a concert can actually help you live longer.
Researchers say going to a show for just 20 minutes can increase your feeling of well-being by about 21 percent, adding nine years to your life. So what was the last concert my fellow "Fivers" attended -- Juan?
WILLIAMS: So I went to see Lionel Richie. But that was last summer. I haven't gone to a concert since last summer.
KENNEDY (singing): Say you, say me.
WILLIAMS: Yes, so we had guests. I had some guests here visiting from Washington, and she took her daughters to see Taylor Swift. So maybe vicariously. But I've never seen Taylor Swift. I don't know.
CHAFFETZ: I have seen Taylor Swift. I went with our daughter, and we went to Taylor Swift. And it was -- I'm telling you. She's impressive. I want to go on this tour if we can figure out how to finance a ticket.
GUTFELD: You want to go on a Taylor Swift tour?
CHAFFETZ: But it was good. It was really good.
KENNEDY: How about your friends at the CIA, Congressman?
GUTFELD: Yes.
CHAFFETZ: You guys are ruthless. It's on sale soon. But no, we went to the Bluebird Cafe, seriously, to see Amy Grant, up at Sundance in Utah, Julie and I did. Loved it.
KENNEDY: Dana Perino took me to an Etta James cover band that was fantastic.
PERINO: That was great.
KENNEDY: Amazing.
PERINO: That was great. The last one I went to was a Dierks Bentley concert in Jersey. I always recommend a Dierks Bentley concert.
But before that, I got to go to the Bon Jovi concert at Madison Square Garden.
KENNEDY: That's all.
PERINO: That was pretty fun. I can -- to the point of the study, one of the things about that concert was looking around. I mean, fans of Bon Jovi spanned many decades. So there were really young people, people in their 70s. Everybody --
GUTFELD: Including in the band. Jon Bon Jovi, I believe, is 94.
KENNEDY: He's actually right.
GUTFELD: Surgery is amazing, what he's done to keep himself alive.
Can I just point out this study is probably bunk, because healthy people tend to live longer and also healthy people are able to go to shows, so it's more of a correlation then it is a causation.
But having said that, I did see -- I saw King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard about three weeks ago, and then before that, I was at the Misfits. I think we have a picture.
KENNEDY: No way!
GUTFELD: Yes, they're great. They're huge.
KENNEDY: With Danzig?
GUTFELD: We don't have it?
KENNEDY: Oh.
GUTFELD: You guys are terrible.
PERINO: But it's on our --
GUTFELD: You told me to get that picture. I thought it was -- but anyway, the misfits are massive fans of THE FIVE.
KENNEDY: Wow.
PERINO: And they gave us T-shirts.
GUTFELD: Yet, they gave us T-shirts, and they're coming to see my show on Friday night. Saturday night, yes.
KENNEDY: Oh, that's fantastic.
WILLIAMS: So here -- so even though I haven't gone to a concert this year, I went to see that Donna Summer show on Broadway.
KENNEDY: How was it? Yes, the Broadway show.
WILLIAMS: It's basically a Donna Summers --
PERINO: Was it good? I'd go to that.
WILLIAMS: Yes, and it was great fun. I don't know that it was a great play. It was a great song.
KENNEDY: I got to go to the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame induction in Cleveland just a couple months ago. I saw my old boss from MTV, Judy McGrath, on a plane. She gave me a ticket.
PERINO: Wow.
KENNEDY: I saw the Cars and the Nina Simone tribute. Bon Jovi.
PERINO: How was that night?
KENNEDY: It was an incredible night. Lauryn Hill singing Nina Simone.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
KENNEDY: I still have --
PERINO: Didn't Howard Stern give a speech?
KENNEDY: Yes, he did. He inducted Jon Bon and the boys. It was -- it was lovely. But there is something. Think about some of the best nights of your life --
GUTFELD: You know what it is?
KENNEDY: Oftentimes you go back and think about --
PERINO: What was your first concert ever?
KENNEDY: Oh, it's such --
PERINO: Come on.
KENNEDY: The Grateful Dead. I went with my older brother.
GUTFELD: You know what? Mine was either The Police or Cheap Trick. I can't remember. It was '79.
You know what it is? It's the only -- music is the only thing that creates actual transcendence.
KENNEDY: Yes.
GUTFELD: Like, there's like -- you can get it from drugs. You can get it from religion. You can get it from meditation.
KENNEDY: Yes.
GUTFELD: But music does something to the brain. When you see, like, girls in those old Beatles -- old Beatles footage, they're, like, somewhere else. And you notice that with Slayer fans, like with metal, people go in a different place with their brain.
WILLIAMS: That's why -- that's why you take a girl to a concert, folks. But you know what?
KENNEDY: But you do enter into a mystical state.
GUTFELD: You do, yes.
KENNEDY: They've done scans of people's brains.
GUTFELD: Yes.
KENNEDY: And it shows that they actually change when they enter those dates through music and chanting. And --
CHAFFETZ: So my first concert was Michael Jackson. What does that say?
GUTFELD: I don't know, Jason.
PERINO: That your parents were very good people.
GUTFELD: Yes, yes. or you're a member of the deep state.
KENNEDY: Hey, guess what's up next? I mean, a dance party always. "One More Thing." Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time Now for "One More Thing." I'm going to brighten up your day. These are sisters Amelia and Michaela Miller of Raleigh, North Carolina. They've been obsessed with "The Star-Spangled Banner" ever since their grandparents played a Lee Greenwood CD on the Fourth of July. And since then, they have been singing their own version, which is quite adorable. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMELIA AND MICHAELA MILLER (SINGING): For the land of the free in the home of the brave
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: They are into it, and I have heard that they are booked to play the Super Bowl next year. So congratulation to the Millers. And Greg, you're next.
GUTFELD: All right. This is something new. Let's go to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Greg's Kitten-Off
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: "Greg's Kitten-Off." OK. Right now I'm going to roll three different kitten videos. If you're at home, you're going to vote on which kitten video you like by shouting into the speaker of the TV the number one, two or three as loud as possible and a ranking of the cat videos. So "one, eight. Two, seven." But you have to yell it really loud or I won't hear it.
Let's go to the first one. I call this a tail break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(KITTEN SLIPPING OUT OF ENCLOSED AREA)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: This young kitten was wanted for assault in three counties, but when the -- when the warden left he was able to sneak out and make his way to freedom. Still on the loose, armed and adorable.
All right. Cat No. 2. I called this the tabby tunneler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(KITTEN SQUEEZING ITSELF THROUGH SMALL METAL TUBE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: If you need somebody that will escapes and help you someplace else, that's the cat. The tabby tunneler.
Last but not least, mixed martial meow. A group of kittens just beating the crap out of each other while other cats look on. Or kittens. Look how fuzzy they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(KITTENS PLAYING WITH EACH OTHER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Why can't kittens remain kittens? Once they become cats, they 'e just not the same, are they, Kennedy?
KENNEDY: No, they're not.
GUTFELD: All right. You can vote now by shouting into your TV.
KENNEDY: My sister Angie is probably doing that.
GUTFELD: It looks like the cat tunneler, tabby tunneler won.
PERINO: Oh, wow. Congratulations to the --
GUTFELD: You can hear them out there in the streets.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUTFELD: It worked.
PERINO: All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, take a look at this.
PERINO: Wow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SARDINES JUMPING IN WATER NEXT TO BOAT)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: That's thousands of sardines jumping out of the ocean and into a fisherman's boat to avoid being eaten by barracudas. This took place in Taiwan as a fisherman was cleaning his boat at midnight. He actually started throwing the fish back into the water. On this side of the world, all this would be a midsummer night's dream for any fisherman.
GUTFELD: My uncle Vic would've loved to have been on that boat. He loves sardines. Oh, yes. He'd just scoop them up in his mouth.
KENNEDY: Wow.
GUTFELD: And then he'd swear, because he's a really mean guy.
PERINO: Jasper likes sardines.
GUTFELD: Yes. He does, doesn't he? He likes everything.
PERINO: Yes, he likes everything, that's true.
GUTFELD: Except me.
PERINO: Jason, we have been full of anticipation for your "One More Thing," if you could please delight us now.
GUTFELD: What's it called?
CHAFFETZ: "The Deep State." "The Deep State." "The Deep State."
I have written a book. I spent eight and a half years in Congress. I was naive to this topic, like Dana.
WILLIAMS: Boo!
CHAFFETZ: And then I learned -- and if you've heard of the deep state, if you've thought about this, if you don't know what it is, how it works, is it real, is it tinfoil caps, that sort of thing? That's why I wrote this down.
There is an army of people out there. They do work to subvert, I think, our democracy. They do want to take down the Trump agenda. And I encourage you to buy it, and I was -- especially at this table want you to read it. I put a lot of effort into this.
GUTFELD: I will buy many copies and read them all at once.
CHAFFETZ: That's good. As long as you pay full price, that is great. I love it.
PERINO: All right. Kennedy.
KENNEDY: It is National Tequila Day. I'm smashing blackberries. This is a drink called the Hillary to celebrate National Tequila Day.
GUTFELD: Nice.
KENNEDY: Smashed blackberries, some lime, because it's got to be a little bit bitter, and enough tequila to get you hammered to help you break the glass ceiling. A little bit more in there.
GUTFELD: So you can't drink it.
KENNEDY: I'm not going to drink it.
GUTFELD: You can't drink it.
KENNEDY: We're going to shake it.
CHAFFETZ: Do you have to wear one of those muumuus?
KENNEDY: National Tequila Day. Tequila's grown from the blue agave plant near the town of Tequila, Mexico.
CHAFFETZ: I can smell it.
KENNEDY: Agave plants are caryopteris, which means they are pollinated by bats and not insects or birds.
GUTFELD: Really? That's --
KENNEDY: There is the Hillary. We'll put some ice in there.
PERINO: Why is it called the Hillary?
KENNEDY: Because it's made from smashed blackberries, and it's got enough booze to get you hammered to break the glass ceiling.
CHAFFETZ: She is -- she is chilly, too.
KENNEDY: And the secret ingredient, of course.
WILLIAMS: What is that?
KENNEDY: A little bit of natural Stevia, even though Hillary's sweetness was quite unnatural.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. You made it bitter. Now you're making it sweet?
KENNEDY: Well, it wasn't enough to win the election.
PERINO: I cannot drink tequila at all, because I'll gag. And you know, whatever.
KENNEDY: It smells so good!
WILLIAMS: This brand of tequila, by the way, is the one that George Clooney makes.
KENNEDY: And Rande Gerber.
WILLIAMS: And guess what?
KENNEDY: Cindy Crawford's husband.
WILLIAMS: It's actually very good.
PERINO: What does the deep state feel about tequila? Have you done this research?
CHAFFETZ: I haven't dove into that.
GUTFELD: There's a worm.
PERINO: Oh, I got it. All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." Like, why would you? "Special Report" is up next. Hey, Bret.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Happy hour. Happy hour with "The Five." Thanks, Dana.
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