This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," June 8, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Breaking tonight, President Trump faces the music as our allies bluster at the notion that maybe our trade deals could use a little bit of work. And that the president says, it may be time to bring Russia back into the family of the G8, he says.
Now those are bow in a China shop ideas at the G7 in Canada and something may get broken folks or maybe not. After slamming Trudeau and Macron as unfair and indignant, now they're all together at the table. And as Larry Kudlow, says this is a family fight after all.
But this feud over tariffs escalated when the president said this on his way to the plane today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Whether you like it or not, and it may not be politically correct, but we have a world to run and in the G7 which used to be the G8, they threw Russia out, they should let Russia comeback in because we should have Russia at the negotiating table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Matt on the way out the door at this morning, right? What a day. So, the family photo was just a tad awkward this evening. As leaders from the G -- from six of the G7. The U.K., Canada, Germany, France, Italy, and Japan all as the standard smiles, all of them waving back at you at home.
And they were next to a man who they had condemned, basically all afternoon. He'd had harsh words for them, as well. But the president appeared pretty much at home, he sticks to his policy that when he does things, America just has to come first. Even if it means at the G7, it becomes the G1.
And late tonight, it looks like he may be making a bit of progress. Kevin Corke is live in Quebec City, Canada where the president just walked out of a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron. So how did it go in there, Kevin?
KEVIN CORKE, FOX NEWS: Oh, I like the way you put that Martha, the G1. And naturally is the way the president is sort of looking at his role, obviously, as the president looking out for America.
Now, it was all smiles on the surface but beneath the surface, you could almost sense the tension as the president made his way here to the G7 once again trying to get our trade partners to be fair from quite frankly, and level the playing field. In particular, I found it interesting the president's comments with his French counterpart earlier this evening. Take a listen.
TRUMP: We've had really a very good relationship, very special. The United States has had a very good trade deficit --
Something's going to happen, I think it would be very positive.
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: I think we had a very open and very successful trade, the reason, the critical path. I saw the willingness on all societies to find agreements and have the win, win approach.
Sometimes we disagree, but we always think and sure -- I think, common concerns and common values.
CORKE: Common concerns and common values, so says Emmanuel Macron, the president, of course, of France. Now, earlier this evening, after the leaders gathered for the familiar family photo. The president and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau joked about the trade tensions, but they also said, listen we're all making progress.
TRUMP: Justin has agreed to cut all tariffs and all trade barriers
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA: Let's say an actors in good shape.
TRUMP: But we are actually working on it. We are actually working on cutting tariffs and making it all very fair for both countries. And we've made a lot of progress today, we'll see how it all works out but we've made a lot of progress.
It could be that NAFTA will be a different forum. If the relationship is probably better, as good or better than it's ever been.
CORKE: OK, quickly, let me just share the president's thinking on this as I take you to Twitter. He said, listen. "Why isn't the European Union in Canada informing the public that for years they have used massive trade tariffs and non-monetary trade barriers against the U.S.? Totally unfair to our farmers, workers, and companies. Take down your tariffs and barriers and we will more than match you."
Of course, all this is happening on a day that also as you put it out saw the president suggest Russia should be here taking part in the conversation that did not go well in terms of our relations with some of our allies overseas. You saw the U.K. saying, you have to be very careful when it comes to Russia. They have been disruptive around the globe.
And so, the idea of including them in the G8 is something that was certainly take a lot more demonstration on the part of the Russians before that could ever happen.
Don't forget tomorrow we have a cultural exchange and more working sessions. Of course, I'll be here for you Martha. In the meantime, have a great weekend, back to you.
MACCALLUM: Yes, look forward to the cultural exchange. Our Kevin, thank you very much.
MACCALLUM: Joining me now Karl Rove, former deputy chief of staff under President George W. Bush, and a Fox News Contributor. And Tom Rogan, Washington Examiner commentary writer. Gentlemen, great to have both of you with us.
Carl, you know, well, I guess which things surprised you the most today that the suggestion that "Russia, let's bring them back in, forget about Crimea and Ukraine or the tough talk on trade."
KARL ROVE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Not surprised by the tough talk and trade.
ROVE: And what was interesting was there are two Trumps when it comes to trade. There is Trump, the free trader who says, "I want you to lower your tariffs and I want you to play by the rules." And then, there's Trump the mercantilist, who says, "You need to buy more from us than we buy from you."
Today, we saw the first one and less of the second one, but yes, the thing that surprised me was, "Let's bring Russia back in." I mean, think about what have they done to justify our confidence in him. Literally, last week, Lavrov, the foreign minister was in North Korea saying, "Let's get rid of the sanctions on North Korea."
Well, what has brought North Korea to the negotiating table are those sanctions. There is nothing the Russians have done that have been helpful to us, and the president who seems to source says, "I want to have bilateral relations with my friends, but I want have multilateral relations with our adversaries. I'd rather run the world with our friends than run it with our adversaries. And so, to me, it was unusual approach.
MACCALLUM: Yes, you know, I mean it's interesting, Tom because these comments don't come out of nowhere. And obviously, he wanted to get that out there before he got on the plane today. What did you make of it?
TOM ROGAN, COMMENTARY WRITER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: It was -- it was strange. I wonder whether -- you know that the Russians did a little dangle on the telephone. They knew the NSA was listening to and it was in the presidential daily brief, and he sort of bid on it.
But look, I think, Karl is absolutely right in terms of Russian conduct which surely should be the measure of broader cooperation. There is no rational excuse for them being part of the G7 at the moment, they have been a hindrance on North Korea. Smuggling, try to push as Karl noted that a movement away from tougher action in the international community have been poisoning. People on British soil with their nerve agents, their conduct in Syria, airstrikes against civilian infrastructure, cyber campaigns across much of Europe, coercive campaigns blackmail in Europe, they're pushing ahead with this Nord Stream pipeline that would degrade the stability and sovereignty of nations there.
So, there isn't really a rational baseline to be there, but I suppose on the president's part, he simply sees, look, the audit is against it. That, that deal-making process he thinks if they're there maybe something can happen if they're not there nothing can happen.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, it was kind -- that sounded like he was saying at the end. You know, "We're all going to get together, we have a world to run." He said something like that. So you can't really do it unless you get Russia to the table. I just found all that fascinating, but in terms of our allies in these trade deals, Karl, you know you see a little bit of the negotiation Trump who we've learned a lot about over the past year which is that, yes, he brings them to Washington, everybody's, you know, it was all the hugging and kissing and all, everybody's getting along great.
And then, he says, "Yes, but I'm sticking to my guns here." I've always felt really strongly it since his early days as a businessman that America gets ripped off in these trade deals. And so, I really actually meant that.
ROVE: Well, look, good luck to him. I think he's going to get some progress here. And in fact, I took it as the interesting, one of the issues he's made is the E.U. has a 10 percent tariff on American automobiles being sold to Europe. And we have a 2-1/2 percent tariff on European automobiles being sold in the United States.
And today, the German auto industry said, "We're open to having our tariffs, our German tariffs lowered.
ROVE: We feel confident, confident that we can compete with American automakers. So, there may be some of that. What I -- what I worry about is, is whether or not there's going to be a recognition that some of these side issues that are not connected with the tariffs.
So, I'll give you two examples, with Canada, the president is insisting that our trade deal exists for five years, and then, go away unless renewed. Automatically go away unless renewed. And second of all, that we get rid of what are called alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. Well, that's a way for American businesses to get quick resolution of trade disputes with Canada which was so we want it, and no company is going to invest in the supply -- international supply chain if that arrangement is going to go away in five years.
So, that the Canadians who are probably going to be willing to give on the tariff somewhat as long as they get the alternative dispute resolution mechanism kept in place. And they get -- and once we make a treaty, we keep a treaty unless we want to renegotiate it.
MACCALLUM: And he's clearly all about the bargain with the president, Tom. So, if they are 2-1/2 and were 10, I'm thinking he's going be happy somewhere around five or six and walk away. And you know, they don't want to lose the business. I mean, they can't possibly lose the business of the United States of America.
ROGAN: Right, and you know, I think the issue here is that the -- if we think about the type of cars, for example, the dimension, it is predominately the Germans are selling in the United States hiring cars, Mercedes, BMW, wealthier Americans. And the opportunity I suppose from the president should -- the President Trump's point of view is that American car manufacturers specialized in durable quality cars, but perhaps, not at the same fashion level.
So, more affordable if you can get those into Europe which, of course, has very high gas taxes comparative to the United States that could be quite a boom. And so, you know, you can see the sort of opportunity there. But the -- I think the exigent point again is that free trade, the legacy of capitalism is that if you reduce that marginal cost, everyone ultimately wins except for a very small number of people.
MACCALLUM: Yes, and it's fascinating, because earlier you had Emmanuel Macron, saying that -- you know, the America President might not mind being isolated, but neither do we mind signing a six-country agreement if need be. So there's some pretty tough talk on both sides, it's going to be fascinating to watch over the next couple days. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Great to see you tonight.
ROGAN: Thank you.
ROVE: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, still ahead, the president making good on his promise to crack down on leakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm a very big believer in freedom of the press, but I'm also a believer that you cannot leak classified information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: This former D.C. insider could go to prison for lying about leaking. Former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy and Judith Miller, who she went to jail for fighting for freedom of the press, debate that coming up next.
Plus, the lives of two young men were destroyed after this college student claimed that they had raped her. Now she says, it wasn't true, she made it up. The lawyer for those two men joins me exclusively, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a person lies about being raped that doesn't complete the service to those who have been victimized --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So just a short time ago, the former Senate Staffer arrested for lying to federal investigators about leaking sensitive information to the press made his first appearance in court. His indictment is drawing the ire of many in the media tonight slamming the Department of Justice for "government overreach" while citing this case as an example of "Trump's aggression against reporters and sources." The President had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm a big, big believer in freedom of the press but I'm also a believer in classified information has to remain classified and that includes Comey and his band of thieves who leaked classified information all over the place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge live tonight for us in Washington with the back story. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well thanks, Martha. The FBI arrested James Wolfe, a former Senior Staffer for the Senate Intelligence Committee in charge of securing highly classified information to include top-secret documents. Wolfe as you mentioned made his first court appearance today facing three counts of lying to federal investigators, a violation of 18 USC, 1001. This morning, President Trump also said he's convinced his Justice Department was tracked down a major breach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It happened last night. It could be a terrific thing. I know I believe strongly in freedom of the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: The indictment does not accuse Wolfe of leaking classified information. He's accused of making false statements to FBI agents about his repeated contacts with reporters including Ali Watkins, now with the New York Times. The indictment cites the report by Watkins in which she revealed the top-secret identity of the target in the major FBI case. Wolfe denied knowing about the reporter's sources and when confronted, admitted he lied and had personal relationships with Watkins. The indictment also notes Wolfe exchange "tens of thousands of electronic communications using encrypted applications including signal and WhatsApp." The FBI gained access to that data by seizing the reporter's e-mail and phone records. In one text, Wolfe writes, I always tried to give you as much information that I could so you get that scoop before anyone else. I felt like I was part of your excitement. Watkins has apparently denied Wolfe was a source for classified information while the two were dating. The case now brings together two significant principals, a reporter's First Amendment rights and the government's need to preserve and protect classified information, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Catherine, thank you very much.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: Here now, Andrew McCarthy former Federal Prosecutor and National Review Contributing Editor and Judith Miller former New York Times Reporter. She spent 85 days in jail for protecting her rights as a member of the press. She is also a Fox News Contributor. Judith, let me start with you on this. What's your take because every reporter tries to find sources who will give them information about what's going on. At this point we don't -- it doesn't appear that that was classified information so what do you think?
JUDITH MILLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Martha my friends and colleagues -- former colleagues at the New York Times say that this was just an outrageous invasion of Ali Watkins' privacy, that they seized her metadata is -- it basically erodes the understanding that was reached between the press and Eric Holder when he was Attorney General. The Justice Department says that is not so, that they scrupulously followed those guidelines. They did not invade her privacy or go after her metadata just for the heck of it and that there were national security grounds for doing so. It's hard to know what the truth is in this case because we don't know what kind of national security information was compromised. I obviously as a member of the press feel strongly that since Attorney General Sessions has threatened us and threatened to put more reporters in jail to stop leaks, one has to be suspicious. And we know that in my case, for example, no national security information was compromised, the FBI and the Justice Department were trying to make a political case. But we don't know enough yet. At least I don't draw a conclusion in this case.
MACCALLUM: Judith talks about the metadata material which essentially meant that they were able to track if her phone number was discussing anything with his phone number but not the actual content of what was going back and forth. So they know that they were contacting each other. Andrew, what do you think?
ANDREW MCCARTHY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, you know Martha as Catherine said, these are interests that have to be balanced. The government has a very important interest here. The leaking of classified information has been outrageous going back to before the time that Trump was sworn into office. And at the same time, we have to have a free robust press. And I think Judy's case, for example, is a cautionary tale of what happens when you have a case that isn't meritorious enough to use this kind of extreme measure that the government has. On the other hand, having had over the years to apply these guidelines, you do have to make a balancing. And the fact of the matter is in the jurisprudence of the First Amendment, this -- the journalist is not given a privilege at least much of one above and beyond what the normal person has in terms of privacy. So I think you have to balance, is there a very serious case, is the journalist somehow implicated in it either as somebody who witnessed it, who's somebody who's participated in it, and is it a situation where only the journalist has information that the prosecutor needs in order to make this serious case? If you can't check all those boxes, we shouldn't even be talking about this.
MACCALLUM: Yes, and a lot of this obviously goes back to trying to figure out well how this -- how the information came out that led to the investigation and the Russian investigation. I mean, that was one of the things that the President wants to learn more about. CARTER Page was one of the stories that she wrote about and I know Andrew, you believe that there's you know sort of anti-Trump bias in what you see coming from Mr. Wolfe who we should point out, Judy, is -- has been working on the Senate Intel Committee for decades and he had a lot of access to classified information as he brought in witnesses. I mean, he had a very high-level clearance in all of this.
MILLER: Absolutely. But Martha, he's not being charged with leaking classified information. He's being charged with lying to the FBI. So it's very hard to know what the national security interests here that are supposedly being jeopardized. I think as a journalist and we have to -- we all have to be suspicious of the government's motives, on the other hand it's also interesting to me that as the government pointed out, she was the only reporter who was -- whose records were seized, the other three reporters that wasn't the case.
MACCALLUM: And it may be Andrew as they dig into this that perhaps there was an issue of classified information. We just we just don't know that yet. I mean, you know, they basically were able to nail him down in terms of the interactions that he had with this reporter. He claims that he never released any classified information.
MACCARTHY: Well, I think also, Martha, it's possible that the case has been charged in a strategic way. By charging it as a three-count full statements case, there's at least a chance that the prosecutors won't have to make discovery in the case of what the classified information is. Now, you know the skeptical among us will say that's because they're trying to keep under wraps that this is in such a serious case. Hopefully, we'd be able to say it's because there's really serious classified information and if you can dispose of the case without exposing it, you should try to do that.
MACCALLUM: Just 20 seconds left but Andy, you talked about the President's rights to privacy and information as well you know, as measure against the press.
MACCARTHY: Yes, well I think you know, it's interesting that the press is up in arms over this and perhaps rightly so. But the President is fighting this request to be interrogated and I think there's an obligation on the Special Counsels part to show he's got a serious case too.
MACCALLUM: All right, we've got to leave it there. Thank you very much. Great to see both of you tonight. Quick break and we will be right back with more of THE STORY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Know the truth about your pain because it is the only way to purge it from your soul. Your life matters to everyone you love, everyone who loves you, everyone who cares about you and people you haven't even met yet.
MACCALLUM: Kevin Hines jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived. It was both the worst and the best day of his life. He says that the minute he jumped, he deeply regretted what he had done and he says that a vast majority of survivors say the same thing. He's on a mission to stop and to save as many people as he can and he joins us in a moment with his important story. It comes during a shocking week as we have lost two bright lights Designer Kevin -- Designer Kate Spade at 55 and Celebrity Chef and Author and T.V. Host Anthony Bourdain at the age of 61. A new report from the CDC shows that suicide rates have gone up 25 percent since 1999. Now the 10th leading cause of death in the United States claiming nearly 45,000 lives in 2016 alone. Here now to share his story with us is Kevin Hines. Kevin, good evening and thank you so much for being here. I want to start with your remarkable story. You jumped and yet you survived. How?
KEVIN HINES, FILM DIRECTOR: I did I attempted to take my life in a way that is 99 percent fatal. Over 3,000 people have likely died off the Golden Gate Bridge. I'm one of 36 to have been given the gift of a second chance to survive and I believe that suicide is basically the same thing as lethal emotional pain. A pain so great that it leads you to believe you are worthless, less than, and have no value and that you are a burden to all who love you which is all false. You are beautiful just as you are. You are enough and you are important and you matter but some people don't recognize that inside the pain.
MACCALLUM: On the note, those are the most important messages I think that you could possibly tell anybody who is feeling the kinds of things that you were feeling. Tell everybody at home what happened, what intervened in your attempt to take your own life that left you able to stand here today and talk to so many others.
HINES: So of the 36 Golden gate Bridge survivors, five of us have regained full physical mobility. The ability to walk, run and stride. That is a gift in itself. And I can tell you when I attempted to take my life, the milliseconds my hand left the rail, it was instant regret for my actions.
Countless people, over hundreds of thousands of people have claimed that in the millisecond they thought they were going to die after their attempt all they desperately wanted to do is live. It's a common thread in suicidal ideation, because people don't recognize that your thoughts don't have to become actions.
But if we can in suicidal crisis recognize that our thoughts don't have to own rules or define us. We can stay here. My friends, I live with chronic suicidal thoughts. They plague me. I'll never die that way. Because every time they occur I'll turn to the person to my right or to my left and I will say four words that matter, I need help now. And I will always survive the pain.
Now given that, I attempted and what saved me in the water is I flailed to stay afloat and I couldn't stay above water. A sea lion came to my aid circle beneath me and bumping me up until the coast guard boat arrived behind you -- me. And for me that is my miracle.
I got to live here because a creature saw me in danger and acted immediately. And to me, that's like my guardian angel who saved me that day. Along with the coast guard who pulled me out of the water, along with the back doctor who gave me the ability to walk and run and stand.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I know you said he wasn't supposed to be on that day and he was.
HINES: That's right.
MACCALLUM: You had a confluence of events that saved you. I love the sea lion part of the story. Because I can just imagine him buoying up under the water and coming out of somewhere to be able to bolster you in the moment when you needed it so much.
So many are feeling so much from what happened this week with Kate Spade and with Anthony Bourdain. What do you say to them about, you know, how to respond to that when we don't really know the person.
HINES: We don't know them. We know of them. And I have to tell you in this celebrity obsessed culture not to offend anybody, but we are obsessed with celebrity in this culture a bit too much. And when someone in this high profile like Anthony like Kate dies by their hands, it sends this ripple effect around the world of immeasurable pain.
And when we allow that ripple effect to damage our children that's when we have a massive problem. I'm so sorry to Anthony and to Kate's family and friends. Chris Cornell, Chester Bennington family and friends. We loved them very much. We love the work they did.
Because we were so closely tied to the work they did and how their work affected us it becomes personal. At least emotionally it does. So all the people that are watching this show right now who are in crisis who are in that kind of pain who are suicidal, there are millions of you around the world.
This is what I have to say. Contact the crisis tech line. Text CNQR to 741741 right now if you are in crisis. They'll be with you in seconds to minutes. CNQR to 741741. That CNQR is important. It stands for conquer. Conquer your pain. You can defeat the pain. You can live with the pain, you can fight the pain in spite of the pain and despite of the pain.
You can thrive today. But you have to recognize your value. How much you matter to the people around you and how much you should matter to you and your life means something. And it's not to ever meant to die by suicide. You are meant to live this life, fight the pain to thrive someday and give back to this world somehow.
MACCALLUM: Kevin, thank you so much. I believe that you were spared to be able to spread this message. And I know that you are saving lives when people listen to what you are saying. I thank you very much for being here tonight. Your thoughts are not -- do not define you.
HINES: Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you so much.
MACCALLUM: You're so welcome, Kevin. Thank you so much.
So as he mentioned if you or a loved one need emotional support call the National Suicide Prevention lifeline at 1-800-273-talk. For free, confidential help 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That is a beginning for tomorrow for so many.
Still to come tonight, we will bring you this story. When Me Too goes wrong. A campus story that you need to hear. And Mitt Romney's change of heart on President Trump. Chris Stirewalt has a theory about that coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He has neither the temperament or the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So a woman is now behind bars for lying about rape. Nineteen- year-old Nikki Yovino claimed that she was raped in 2016 by two Sacred Heart University football players but she then admitted that she was lying. Unfortunately, so much of the damage has already been done.
Jonathan Hunt is live in our west coast newsroom with the back story here. Hi, Jonathan.
JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS: Good evening, Martha. Jury selection was already underway in this case what which has irremeably changed the lives of the accused and now the one awaiting sentencing and the accused to it turns out were actually the victims.
Nikki Yovino had originally claimed that two Sacred Heart football players had pulled her into a bathroom at a party in 2016 and then took turns raping her. And as recently as January her lawyer had said Yovino wanted the case tried.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN O'NEILL, NIKKI YOVINO'S ATTORNEY: We are ready to get a story in front of a jury. We think that there is more to this story than has been portrayed in the media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: But this week Yovino accepted a plea deal admitting she made up the assault allegation. Because as her arrest warrant affidavit stated, quote, "It was the first thing that came to mind and she didn't want to lose another male student as a friend and potential boyfriend."
And the affidavit also said Yovino believed when the other student, quote, "heard the allegation, it would make him angry and sympathetic to her." Investigators said the football players admitted having sex with Yovino but said it was consensual. Their attorney said the plea deal cannot make up for what Yovino has put the young men through but that, quote, "it does send a powerful message that lying about a serious incident carries serious consequences."
Yovino's lawyer said, quote, "This was a very difficult decision for Nikki and a sad day for her and her family. She will now begin the process of healing and rehabilitation as she awaits her final sentence." Under the plea bargain, Yovino will be formally sentenced August 23 and will spend one year in prison. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Remarkable story. Jonathan, thank you very much.
Here now exclusively tonight on the story, Frank Riccio, the lawyer for the two men who were falsely accused. They have not been named. Enough damage has already been done to them. Everybody obviously on campus knows about them.
Were you shocked that she came forward? You got the jury, you are about to trial and then suddenly what, what was the catalyst?
FRANK RICCIO, ATTORNEY: Suddenly the day came where I think she thought that I'm going to see the whites of the eyes of this jury and I just can't handle it. It was surprising. I have to admit it was surprising. I thought she was going to trial. I thought she wanted to present her story, her multiple stories to a jury but at the very last minute she changed her mind.
MACCALLUM: She, I mean, it's extraordinary. Because we are in the middle of this, you know, nationwide Me Too movement where we're told all women should be believed. And that's the environment that we live in right now. Is there anything -- you know, what are the problems with that potentially?
RICCIO: Well, the Me Too movement is a powerful movement. How many years women fought to have their voice heard. This does a tremendous disservice to that. What it does is it now causes someone to, they admittedly lied and now it does soil what would be, you know, otherwise valid allegations.
The evidence ended up proving that there wasn't a sexual assault. She lied over and over again. First claiming that a sexual assault. Then not. Then being assaulted. Then not. It does a complete disservice.
MACCALLUM: I mean, you can't -- I feel for her as well. Obviously she has, you know, some issues that she needs to work out. But what has been the impact on the lives of these two young men?
RICCIO: They're no longer in school. They don't have the experience of that school anymore. They are in the working world so they are doing the best as they can. The one year in jail that she, Ms. Yovino, is being sentenced to pales in comparison to the 20 years that these boys could have received had they been arrested, had they been convicted.
So while the punishment by some may be classified as severe, it pales in comparison to what those boys were facing.
MACCALLUM: And they can't go back to school. They can't restart their lives where they left off.
RICCIO: They can. And they are considering all of their options right now. There will be a civil suit against Ms. Yovino most likely, so all of their options are being considered. They are doing as well as they can right now.
MACCALLUM: I mean, as you say, if these kinds of allegations what they do, they are problematic obviously for the people that are accused. And also for all the other cases out there that are legitimate, Me Too cases where there are cases of assault. It really muddies the water in such a dangerous, dangerous way. But it's important for people to understand that if you do come forward with a false allegation you can end up in jail.
RICCIO: Yes, you can. You can be arrested. You can be put in jail and you can suffer the consequences. When you lie about a serious incident it carries serious consequences. And that's what we have here.
MACCALLUM: You think of Duke, you think of UVA, I go back to Tawana Brawley.
MACCALLUM: I mean, there are reasons why people lie about these situations. And we do have to look at every single case individually on its merits. Both people involved, right? And really get to the bottom of it.
RICCIO: And the victims who are true victims, their stories don't change. The evidence supports their story. Her story changed. The evidence did not support that story.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much for being here tonight.
RICCIO: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So up next, a shockingly honest look at the swamp in a brand new documentary series.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My lobbyist friends and I are prepared to raise the amount of money it's going to take to get you on the ways and means committee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After his proposal I was trying to find a shower.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Boy. Fox News politics editor, Chris Stirewalt, coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: Here is what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University.
ROMNEY: He is playing the members of the American public for suckers. He gets a free ride to White House. And all we get is a lousy hat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Remember that? Mitt Romney in one of the most cunning never- Trump moments. The former Republican presidential nominee laid in to the now president with no mercy in that speech. But in politics winning can change a whole lot of things.
And President Trump recently endorsed Mitt Romney who is now running for Senate for the U.S. Senate in his home state of Utah. So last night, he was telling a crowd that he now believes that Mr. Trump will win in 2020 again. Saying this, quote, "I think President Trump will be re-nominated by my party easily and I think he will be re-elected solidly. I think that not because of the strong -- I think that not just because of the strong economy, rather, and because people are increasingly seeing rising wages but I think it's also true because I think our Democrat friends are likely to nominate someone who is really out of the main stream of American thought."
President Trump had to say about the comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we are doing well. Look, Mitt is a straight shooter. Weather people love him or don't love him--
TRUMP: -- Mitt Romney is a straight shooter. And yes he had some very nice things to say. I appreciate that. That's good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Joining me now is Chris Stirewalt, Fox News politics editor. You know, it's really interesting to put yourself back in that moment of March 2016. And really, Mitt Romney laid it out in no uncertain terms. And like the rest of the country probably never thought that there would be a President Trump at that moment.
CHRIS STIREWALT, DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR, FOX NEWS: I don't know. At the time he was talking about even that there was a danger from President Trump and what the consequences of demagoguery and all of that could be. But you know, politics is how we do this. You lay it on the line. You put everything out on the field. You do everything that you can to put your point of view across. And you hopefully do it in an honest way, you hopefully do it in a respectful way. But you put it out there.
And then when you lose, you know what you got to do? Come back to the table and work with the same person that you tried to stop. And that's life. That's politics. That's grown-up.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, it is. You know, but watch this one as well. This is from the Today Show. I mean, Mitt Romney is such an interesting political person. And he obviously, he wants to get back to Washington now as the senator. I mean, I thought he was careful in that statement that he made to sort of not negate the things that he said before.
MACCALLUM: But make a new fresh statement that is also true. Do you think that is accurate, Chris?
STIREWALT: I think there is nothing incongruous about what he said about Donald. And by the way, I substantially agree with his premise there. Donald Trump is on a good path right now for re-election. His approval ratings are not high but they are solid. And as long as the economy is good and the nation is at peace, incumbent presidents tend to get re-elected and Donald Trump is doing that.
So I don't think there is anything incongruous at all about what Mitt Romney said today or this week and what he said before.
MACCALLUM: Actually I want to leap forward now. I want you to take a look at this, this documentary the swamp. Let's play a little bit more of this for Chris to get his thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remember the first time I voted no and the party was voting yes. A staff member came to me on the floor and told me that I had made a mistake. I said well, actually, that's how I meant to vote. And she said, well, if you want to know what's in this bill you can go over to the leadership table and they will explain this bill to you.
And I said I read the bill. That's why I'm voting no. This is a staffer and I've been here like a week and she is giving me permission to vote my conscience, to vote for my constituents. It was ridiculous, but that was just the tip of the iceberg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: You know, you want to take a shower after you watch this thing. And you know, we all know that there is a lot of truth in it. There is a lot of good people that are working in Washington, D.C., and work on the Hill. But it's pretty icky, Chris.
STIREWALT: Well, so there a couple of categories here. And the movie is fascinating. Because you have members talking frankly about the influence that lobbyists have and you have members talking frankly about how much their careers are exercising in fundraising, right.
STIREWALT: All of that stuff is pretty dug on gross. But I will say this, people who complain that Congress don't get enough done, people who claim that -- especially Republicans who say well, they can't ever pass anything and they don't do anything and how come they're not passing the priorities for that one.
It is exactly that sort of enforcement and discipline of junior members. Of course freshmen members get told what to do by the speaker. That's the organizing principle. You just got here and you have to wait until you have some seniority and hen just maybe after you get elected the third time we'll start to listen to you.
If you want stuff to get passed there has -- there has to be enforcement. Democrats do it. If you think that's tough, imagine what Nancy Pelosi does to her people. And guess what? They don't go on documentaries and squeal about it either because they know they'll get booted.
MACCALLUM: That is exactly right. I just want to give you a moment, Chris, because you wrote so beautifully in your piece about our friend Charles Krauthammer and I'm going to say something about it at the end of the show. But your thoughts had some this really awfully sad news that really sinks in for everybody today.
STIREWALT: Yes, sure. We had known for a bit but it became very real today. And I would just say this that I will dedicate myself in my public life and my public utterances to living up to the standards that Charles has set for us, which is to be decent, to be respectful and to be honest about ourselves and about other people. And that's the kind of patriotic expression that we need so desperately right and live up to his standards.
MACCALLUM: Yes. He's such a good bench mark for us to think about in our work. And as I said, I'll say a little something about it later. Chris, thank you so much.
STIREWALT: You bet.
MACCALLUM: Great to see you tonight. Coming up next, an update, as I said on our friend and our colleague Charles Krauthammer.
MACCALLUM: So today our colleague and friend Charles Krauthammer gave us heartbreaking news. After a 10-month struggle he tells us that he has weeks to live.
Charles has taught us all about the things that matter. And in the end, if you understand what matters, you have a shot at living the life that you intended. He assures us that he has done just that.
He writes, "I thank my colleagues, my readers, and my viewers who have made my career possible and given consequence to my life's work. I believe that the pursuit of truth and right ideas through honest debate and rigorous argument is a noble undertaking. I am grateful to have played a small role in the conversations that have helped guide this extraordinary nation's destiny."
And I am grateful to have worked with Charles and to have had him as a guest on my shows. We always looked forward to it around here. I love that in his life Charles has given himself the leeway to evolve and to change his mind about things over time. He is brilliant but human and we are all richer for reading and listening to Charles.
As always, Charles could cut through the noise with an elegant simplicity that always leaves you thinking he's probably right. That is our story for tonight, the story goes on Monday and we will see you then. Our best to Charles and his family tonight. Here's Tucker.
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