This is a rush transcript from "The Greg Gutfeld Show," March 24, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Reminds me of the starfish which gets himself tightly around the clam and uses its stuff that weaken and pry open the clam.
Now, this is a battle to the death as far as the clam is concerned. If the starfish is able to open him even a little bit, he can get him open all the way, and that's it for the clam.
He's the starfish's lunch.
GREG GUTFELD, HOST: No, Chris. That is not where babies come from.
All right, all right, shut up. You've got to hand it and it to Trump, it's never dull. Out with McMaster, in with Bolton, this Bolton, not this Bolton.
It's a strong choice when John's mustache enters the room. You know, he's not far behind. It's a good joke. He's a friend to our allies, he despises our enemies. I am happy for him, but I will also miss him.
He was a frequent guest on my last show, "Redeye" so frequent a guest, we called him the President of "Redeye." He even delivered a State of the Show address.
JOHN BOLTON, NOMINATED AS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I am happy to report that "Redeye" host, Greg Gutfeld has taken my advice to stop taking prescription pills before each show. I believe this course of action will help him finally to be able to correctly pronounce difficult words like Manti Te'o, irreconcilable and the.
GUTFELD: Good luck, my little handle-barred hobbit, but that wasn't the story of the week. Biden wants to fight Trump, that is the story of the week. This would be the greatest day for the makers of Bengay.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When a guy who ended becoming our national leader said, "I can grab a woman anywhere and she likes it," and then said, I made a mistake -- I didn't make mistake, but they asked me would I like to debate this gentleman, I said, "No," I said, "If we were in high school, I would take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him."
GUTFELD: That is some tough talk. I kick your ass, if I were in high school. That's like saying, I'd kick your ass if I were a giant clam. It's a biological impossibility.
Anyway, Trump took that bait faster than Kevin Spacey on the set of "To Catch a Predator." The original joke was worse. All right, just remember that.
Trump tweeted that Biden would go down hard and crying all the way. Now, Biden was speaking at a rally against sexual assault urging responsibility but that message was drowned because these two want to throw down.
The former VP and the current President of the United States of America -- Biden is 75, Trump is 71, together that is like 300 years. Too old guys fighting shirtless. If you like watching two pieces of driftwood grappling in low tide or two tube socks packed with prunes tumbling in a drier, but I'd watch it. I'd watch every (inaudible) second of it.
Imagine the pay-per-view.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready for the early bird brawl? A melee of the mature, a Geritol free-for-all. A fix-it at Fracas and nonstop action with two men in traction.
Then set your neck alerts to stun because it's The Battle of The Really Old Guys 2020.
With a combined age of 150 years, it's Joe the Curmudgeon-Bludgeon Biden versus Donald Knuckle-Sandwich Trump.
Feud among fossils, a bout with potential for gout -- an altercation featuring an omelette station
They were born before computers. They can remember when people rode horses, and they get colonoscopies regularly.
Good for them because it's really important.
You've never seen a rumble this slow.
This senior scrap is 12 rounds of awkward sounds. A clumsy toss requiring frequent bathroom breaks. And the first 100 people to arrive, get a lifetime supply of butterscotch candies.
So, grab your Ensure and your comfortable orthotics because it's The Battle Of The Really Old Guys 2020.
Featuring an Undercard Match between Liz Pokin' Pocahontas Warren versus Brawling Betsy Duvall.
GUTFELD: Now, this is all fantasy. They are not really going to fight. For one thing, either one wouldn't want to mess up their hair, but if this is Joe's audition to take on Trump in 2020, I think he's making a mistake.
He's trying to steal voters from Trump and this is what he lifts from him. His least appealing trait. Trump has got better ones. His strong stance on terror. His love for law and order, his fun rallies -- that is why we live with Trump's often rough talk.
Believe me, if he weren't getting lower unemployment or tax cut bonuses and talks with North Korea, Trump the personality would not be half as popular.
The fact is, everyone has a talent. A skunk has one. A peacock has one, but a skunk cannot impersonate a peacock or vice versa. So, Joe, stick to what you know like hugs.
GUTFELD: Here we go. Look at that. It goes on a little too long. Yes, yes, there it is. He is feeling uncomfortable. Yes. All right, enough.
GUTFELD: He just can't let go. Let us welcome tonight's guest. He is so bright, you'll see spots when he leaves. He is the leading philosopher, psychologist and all-around godfather of the internet. His YouTube channel has almost one million subscribers. His latest book is "12 Rules for Life," it's University of Toronto psychology professor, Jordan Peterson.
All right. He has nailed more roles than a perverted baker. The great actor, Daniel Roebuck. He's got an explosive new film out called, "Getting Grace".
She is no waitress, but she brings a lot to the table. National Review reporter, Kat Timpf.
And he can't play hide and seek, Impact wrestler and my massive sidekick, Tyrus.
Dr. Peterson you are a psychologist, a renowned psychologist. If you look at America as a patient, how would you diagnose it when you see how our -- all the political conflicts are going now?
JORDAN PETERSON, UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR: Split personality obviously.
GUTFELD: Yes, definitely. Yes, tribal?
PETERSON: Yes, I think that might be driven by the failure of the standard media at least to some degree.
GUTFELD: You mean, CNN?
PETERSON: Yes, sure.
GUTFELD: You only do Fox News, do you?
PETERSON: No, Fox News, yes, well, I think that as readership and viewership shrinks, it's easier to use click bait and to use tactics of indignation to attract decreasing viewership and that that might be driving the polarization to some degree.
PETERSON: It's partly a technological transformation.
GUTFELD: Yes, it seems like in terms of polarization, people are seeking order out of chaos, right? They like to hear the things that they want to hear and that is just -- isn't that how we all are? We just like to be around people that are like us?
PETERSON: Yes, well, we -- in the past, we have been able to maintain a reasonably civil dialogue. Look, I haven't seen things this polarized. I don't think since the 1970s, since the early 1970s, and so it is kind of an ugly mess and I think, a large part of that, I do believe it is driven by the universities and their continual production of people who are radically left in their political orientation.
GUTFELD: The identity politics that is now putting the group before the individual.
PETERSON: Yes, it's a terrible thing to do that and it is an invitation to tribalism and tribalism is an invitation to conflict, so you think the great -- one of the great achievements of the West as far as I am concerned is that we figured out a long time ago, and maybe several thousand years ago that that individual should always be subordinate to the state.
That's the great discovery of western civilization.
GUTFELD: All right, Professor Dan.
ROEBUCK: Yes, doctor -- I was a doctor in "Lost" -- Dr. Artz.
GUTFELD: You were a doctor in "Lost."
ROEBUCK: I was. I was nowhere near as smart as Dr. Preston Jordan though, but I am intrigued by this whole idea that -- I mean, we love sports and that is tribalism, right?
ROEBUCK: We're all into that.
ROEBUCK: So, we've done that and I always thought that maybe was the thing that we put instead of like fighting. We all had sports, am I am wrong? I don't know, I just came with that. I was trying to act smart. Thank you.
GUTFELD: You did a great job. You did a great job.
ROEBUCK: I was so nervous. I wanted to.
GUTFELD: You're an actor. You're a fantastic actor.
PETERSON: Well, with sports at least, everybody plays by the same rules, right, so there's an overarching theme of cooperation.
ROEBUCK: Right, we all.
PETERSON: So, that's a big deal and we could get along tribally as long as we had an overarching system of cooperation and at least in principle, that was respect for the individual, and now that in itself is under attack and that is a very bad thing.
GEORGE MURDOCH, WRESTLER: Yes.
GUTFELD: Yes, Tyrus? What do you think?
MURDOCH: I'm processing still. I am more upset about that you think everyone wants to hang around people that look and act like that, you know, how lonely I would be? What is worse? Six to eight black and Scottish power lifter conservatives? I will just be walking just sad all the time. Man, like my best friend would be (Sudan), who just passed away, all right, that would be it. That's nothing.
I mean, and this is the media's fault again. This -- CNN and the super left, look, if you don't -- they are shoving people in to fights.
MURDOCH: Biden actually made those comments before the election and he was at a rally where it came up and he explained why because he was talking about how important and how strongly he felt against men saying inappropriate things towards women and doing things and you know, we all know about the grabbing and whatever and that was the issue. They just took that and were like, "He said he wants to fight Trump." His your own president.
Biden felt, "Like, damn, I was just accepting some money at a rally just making some." You know, they literally are just trying to push anybody into a fight with Trump.
GUTFELD: That was the first time he said it, not this late this time we're talking about.
MURDOCH: Yes, he said it before and they brought it up like it was brand new. He was retelling the story of what he said before, but that information is not needed because maybe we could throw him to fight Trump.
Nobody wants to fight Trump right now. Nobody wants to go -- no one wants to start running for President now. It's completely -- you are going to be forgotten.
GUTFELD: Nobody can do Trump well, Kat, except for Trump. Like you can't be like -- you could be pretty rough and sloppy with his rhetoric, if you tried to do it, then he comes right after you.
KAT TIMPF, REPORTER, NATIONAL REVIEW: I think we saw that in the debates. Remember when little Marco tried to be tough and he just ended up looking absolutely ridiculous.
I just wanted to say that normally I would love to watch two 70-something- year-old man fight. However, not when my tax dollars are paying for at least one of their medical expenses.
I will not allow this. I will not allow this.
GUTFELD: You know, maybe President Obama was right about Obamacare. Maybe he was planning for this fight.
ROEBUCK: But you think, so like when they fight by the markets and Queensbury rules, that's you know, talking about, like where they are both, okay, agree, no punching in the face. We're just you know.
GUTFELD: This is a good point. We've got to wrap it up, but you know what, this is progress. It's not a duel. Like, we've moved from duels to this, and then, what's the Hamilton -- you can make a musical out of this. Like Hamilton and Aaron Burr, right? I don't know my history.
All I know is that they laughed back then. According to the musical.
MURDOCH: Go to commercial stop.
GUTFELD: Go to commercial. Stop. Am I in trouble? All right, the Austin bomber, the Vegas shooter, the ISIS terrorists in France, what do they have in common? Besides sucking, that's next.
So, what is terror? On Friday, an armed man in France took people hostage in a supermarket, killed three people before the cops took him out.
ISIS says, that's one of our (inaudible). On Wednesday, the Austin bomber blew himself up. It's what we call in the Gutfeld house, a happy ending.
But the conversation now has shifted to what to call him? Cops said he was a troubled person. The media got pissed and said, "No, he is a terrorist." So, is he a terrorist or is he troubled?
It's kind of a no-brainer. He is both. After all, he who terrorizes is as a terrorist, but the media denies the differences between the types of terror. It's just easier to identify terror when the terrorist shout his aims, which the radical Islamist does.
It's the media, for some reason, who just can't hear it. But there are bigger questions out there and labels. It's been six months since the Vegas massacre and we are just getting new video from the Mandalay Bay Hotel showing the fiend duping stuff into lugging his weapons.
So, how different is he or the bomber from ISIS? Well, ISIS is driven by a toxic belief tied to an afterlife of great reward. The bomber or the shooter, both were also driven by a toxic belief tied to an afterlife of great reward.
The toxic belief is nihilism. The reward is infamy and get this, the god is the media who rewards them with attention. You may not get 72 virgins, but your Wikipedia page will get more visits than Mount Rushmore.
Dr. Peterson, this is kind of your wheelhouse. All of these deeds share one thing in common, that is planning. You know what I mean? You can look even back in 9/11, but you can look at Vegas. Vegas is a plan that we weren't expecting and that's why it gets pulled off.
PETERSON: Yes, you know the planning element is a really interesting part of it because you have to brood horribly for a long time before you come up with something that reprehensible. You have to go to very, very, very dark places and you have to dwell in them voluntarily for long period of time.
GUTFELD: Yes, and the thing is, what kills me about the Parkland incident is that, they had suggested he be institutionalized like two years ago, but somehow, I think we have demonized the idea of mental institutions to a point where we won't incarcerate them.
PETERSON: Well, you know, there are reasons to be hesitant about institutionalizing people just because they hypothetically pose a threat, right? I mean, the ratio of people who pose a threat to the people who actually do something terrible is unbelievably high and so, these things are unbelievably hard to predict and prevent, but it does look in his case like the warning signs were everywhere.
GUTFELD: Yes, and no one -- everybody saw something, but they did nothing.
Dan, you were in an interesting movie in the 1980's called, "River's Edge." I always talk about -- I love that film and it was about a teen -- you played a teenage killer who killed his girlfriend.
ROEBUCK: He had no concern about it at all. He was talking (inaudible).
GUTFELD: Yes and then he bragged about it so (inaudible).
ROEBUCK: And that was based unfortunately, that was based on a real incident. Neal Jimenez wrote -- it was based on an incident where a kid killed his girlfriend in high school and then took his friends to see it.
Very, very despondent lonely people.
GUTFELD: You see, what do you make of this nihilistic kind of vein that you are seeing. Is it nihilism?
ROEBUCK: You know, I mean, it depresses. I mean, that's why I made a movie where people, you know, could celebrate life. How do you get people to -- we may not be able to get them into an institution, but how do you get them to celebrate life? Instead of like getting into that dark place like you are talking about and venting and being so angry.
I am just an actor. I don't have an answer, but it is -- there is something going on in our world where people are feeling alone and we have to figure out how to make them feel like one and I don't even mean tribal- like in our tribe, I mean, we are all one.
GUTFELD: Yes, you know, Kat, you sometimes feel alone, but you don't do anything really bad.
TIMPF: Not to brag, no, I don't.
GUTFELD: Yes, yes. It's a very low bar.
TIMPF: Yes, whenever I feel alone I only do things that punish myself.
TIMPF: But what's the question other than me divulging my sad personal life on national television?
GUTFELD: What do you make of the fight over labeling what is terror?
TIMPF: I think that -- well, the legal definition has to be something that is politically motivated right, which is what makes the difference between something like Vegas or something like Austin, and not ISIS. That's the big difference.
Some people are saying though that he might have been racially motivated, but that is still not conclusive, but if that were the case, absolutely it would be terrorism.
GUTFELD: Good point. Tyrus, you know, evil, how -- isn't it interesting that we cannot actually identify evil until it presents itself?
MURDOCH: Well, because we live in a society now where evil is somebody is good now, you know, some people praise these behaviors and they put it over and they celebrate it in ways we don't realize that we are doing it.
You know, video games where we are basically training people to be assassins and to shoot and stuff, I mean, without any real responsibility. I mean, anyone can do it. We live in a free society unfortunately. We also live in a society where we -- everyone has become a star.
Everyone is -- if you look at -- look at social media, even the most -- everyone has got a selfie. Everyone is the most important person in their own world, and then the reality is, you are not.
And there are no coping skills that I see for the people that really suffer on those things, where they don't -- you are not a star. You are not as cool as you think that you might be and some people take that -- and when you have a deviant personality and you have issues, and you have things like that, you struggle within and then the reality is, you have to face that and there is no outlet because everyone -- you are not allowed to label anybody. You don't have to say, "Well that guy is off," or he is different. You know, he's special. Everyone is -- he is a volunteer.
Like you can't say that he's (inaudible) crazy. We have got to do something with him. You can't say that because I am judging.
We're not very honest anymore.
GUTFELD: The top line.
ROEBUCK: Can I just like -- what if we just stop saying the names of the terrible people? No, really, like, why do we put the names like you do it-- nobody says your name again. You're gone. You'll never get anything for it.
I don't understand.
MURDOCH: (Inaudible) man, criminal, murderer. We have domestic terrorists.
GUTFELD: That's a Trump strategy and I think it works. All right, we have got to move on because we have got a lot more.
Facebook got caught playing fast and loose with our personal data.
What does it mean for me, you and your cat videos?
ROBERT GRAY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Live from America's News Headquarters, I am Robert Gray. An emotional day in the nation's capital and around the world as massive crowds rallying against gun violence. A group of teens led by the survivors of the deadly Parkland Florida high school massacre had an urgent message for lawmakers: no more school shootings. In one of the most powerful speeches of the day, Parkland shooting survivor, Emma Gonzalez stood silent for six minutes and 20 seconds. That is the amount of time she said it took for a gunman to kill 17 people and wounded 15 others on Valentine's Day at Margery Stoneman Douglas High School.
Many in the crowd shed tears as Gonzalez stood in silence.
There are also smaller counter protests across the nation in support of the Second Amendment. In Utah, pro-gun advocates shouted "freedom" as they marched on the state capital in Salt Lake City.
Now, back to "The Greg Gutfeld Show."
GUTFELD: All right, Facebook, more like in your face, book. That makes me laugh.
Facebook's CEO, Mark Zuckerberg is doing damage control after millions had their info taken from his website without consent.
The firm that took the info was allegedly Cambridge Analytica who may have used the info to target voters in 2016. Meanwhile, perhaps out of fear of media vengeance, Facebook changed its algorithms suppressing conservative views, sources and news on its site.
As a result, conservative websites have seen large drops in traffic. The liberal sites, not so much. This week, a campaign to delete Facebook accounts started gaining popularity.
It seems that the market is right for a new social network, so I made one. Here is the first ad for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried that your social network is mining your personal information and sharing it with political operatives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot believe Facebook, using my information to elect Donald Trump. How can they do this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It never ends with this (inaudible) guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe you should try Not Connected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never heard of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the world's first off-line online social network.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is on your computer right now if you want to give it a try.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how did do you get it on my computer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's not worry about that now. Just give it a try.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, I think I will post a clever tweet about the President, see what happens?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The key to Not Connected highly advanced technology is that it looks like just most social networks, but you are not on the internet. In fact, you are not connected to anything.
Your posts simply bypass Twitter and Facebook and end up here. Meanwhile, what do you see?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, it was retweeted 1,000 times. Every one of my tweets is retweeted 1,000 times. Thanks, Not Connected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You bet. Not connected for when you need real gratification, with none of the real sharing. Nope, Not Connected is just a box that lets you write stuff but it goes straight to your trash.
GUTFELD: That -- is this something that you need?
TIMPF: Yes, probably.
TIMPF: Facebook stuff has got me worried.
TIMPF: I knew I shouldn't have taken that quiz called, "Which friend's character are you based on your W-2."
GUTFELD: So, you filled it out?
TIMPF: No, look, I think that Facebook really just didn't take this too seriously. They weren't paying attention. They felt like they were too big to fail to have to worry about our privacy too much.
But if you remember, MySpace -- oh wait, no, you don't.
TIMPF: So, they better figure out what happened and try to stop it from happening again, or else, maybe Mark might be the new Tom, which is exactly who knows? Who knows what that guy is doing.
GUTFELD: I remember Tom. Oh, my god.
TIMPF: Only just now though.
GUTFELD: Okay, do you want to remember MySpace? When you joined MySpace, you got the first message from Tom and you thought it was an actual person, it wasn't.
By the way, fun story before I get to you, Tyrus because you're glaring at me. When we were on "Redeye" we had to share the floor with MySpace because Fox had just bought MySpace, and they were such a bunch of jackasses.
They had a refrigerator, so we had a refrigerator. They put notes on the fridge about their food. Like, they had notes like if they potato chips, people would put notes on their food. I don't want your food, but now, I want your food.
If you put notes on your stupid home-made soup, I am going to pour it in the sink.
ROEBUCK: Wait a minute, it was called MySpace?
ROEBUCK: My -- you are confused with their name on? Mine it is mine.
GUTFELD: Where are they? Where is Tom? I hope Tom is okay. Tyrus, do you worry that social media is actually replacing the social life?
MURDOCH: Not in my world, but apparently, in everyone else's. Damn. I have always been dead against social media stuff, like I threw Facebook away a long time ago.
I actually have somebody who runs my social media.
GUTFELD: Oh, aren't you important.
MURDOCH: No, he's just a guy. He's just a kid from my neighborhood who owes me a ton of favors and his life is terrible, so pretending to be me for a few hours a day is amazing for him.
The bar is low.
GUTFELD: I hope he is not watching.
MURDOCH: He wouldn't understand it anyway, but he's the smartest, right? But this whole thing, I think the apology was terrible. He basically said, all your data which, ladies and gentlemen, it's your pictures too, went to-- this company went through all your stuff, and he was like, "We're really sorry."
TIMPF: Yes, not good enough.
MURDOCH: Try that at home. Expose intimate details of your relationship to total strangers and then when she finds out, go, "My bad." That's basically what they did.
MURDOCH: Not like, "Hey, we're going to fix this and we're going to." "Sorry, guys, we are going to change our algorithms."
GUTFELD: They are trying to save Facebook.
MURDOCH: Yes. Right.
GUTFELD: Thank you.
MURDOCH: It's gone.
TIMPF: Great stuff, Greg.
GUTFELD: I know, I am trying to find thoughts in my head. Dr. Peterson, what if we get rid of Facebook, but whatever takes its place is worse because technology always builds on the past technology and we could be going into a really interesting direction.
PETERSON: Yes, we are going in about 10 interesting directions at the same time, I am afraid, and it's very difficult to understand how to monitor and control all the social media. It's such a powerful force. And it changes so quickly that we really can't stay adapted to it.
GUTFELD: Yes. It's actually, we are basically racing against something that's smarter with us, I thin, right.
PETERSON: Yes, I think that's happened ever since the beginning of time actually. Yes, we do kind of fail and die after all eventually, but yes, this is a whole new enterprise.
GUTFELD: Yes, I don't plan on dying, Dr. Peterson. I want my brain extracted from this beautiful skull and placed in a vat of nutrients and then I could just do this show, and I will just be gurgling. Dan, last word? How do you feel?
ROEBUCK: About your brain gurgling? I am concerned. I think -- there's not going to be enough nutrients. What if it gurgles like a chia brain and stuff starts growing out of it. All of these amazing thoughts you have.
GUTFELD: So, true. All right, coming up, everywhere he goes, he brings order to chaos. My exclusive interview. It's exclusive with Jordan Peterson on Living on Your Best Life, that's next.
All right, for my money, Dr. Jordan Peterson is probably one of the greatest thinkers alive today. His YouTube videos has been watched by millions and he tackles topics like identity politics, personal responsibility, being a better man and the true nature of evil.
Earlier this year, Dr. Peterson gave a TV interview and the topic turned to free speech. It went like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why should your rights to freedom of speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended?
PETERSON: Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive. I mean, look at the conversation we are having right now. You know, like, you are certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth, why should you have the right to do that? It's being rather uncomfortable. That's fine. I think more power to you as far as I am concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You haven't sat there and -- I am sorry, I am just trying to word that out. I mean.
PETERSON: Ha, got you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have got me. You have got me.
GUTFELD: Whoops. All right. Dan, you've got to see the whole interview. That is hilarious and what a perfect timing for your book. So, I read.
PETERSON: You have to go unplanned.
GUTFELD: Did you plan that? She gets part of the royalties? There are so many interesting things about the book, but I like the fact that you make me think that there are two versions of me, there is past Greg and present Greg.
So, present Greg depends on the past, for example past Greg wakes up in the morning and decides not to go to the gym. Present Greg is really mad because now present Greg has to go. So, the secret of life, no it's actually -- the secret of life is you have to do things for future Greg or else life sucks.
Basically, you have a whole chapter on delayed -- it's delayed gratification. Have I explained it?
PETERSON: That's pretty good.
GUTFELD: Yes, thank you.
PETERSON: Yes, I am impressed.
GUTFELD: Yes, should I just interview myself now?
PETERSON: But you're pretty witty.
GUTFELD: Why is that? You kind of paint that as the lynchpin of society survival, right?
PETERSON: Yes, well, it is the discovery of the future. Delayed gratification, right?
PETERSON: Human beings invented time or discovered time and we're about the only animals to really have managed it. So, we have to sacrifice what is immediately gratifying for the future and for our future selves, but also for other people.
But the payoff for that, I think is that, not so much happiness, but a sense of deep engagement with your life.
One of the things that I have been attempting to make clear repeatedly in my YouTube lectures for example is that, you need a sense of meaning to fortify you against the trouble of life, the suffering of life and mostly, you find that meaning and adopting responsibility.
And that is not the same as pursuing happiness or certainly not the same as being impulsive. You find the meaning by taking care of yourself and taking care of your family and taking care of your community and if you fail to do those things, there is also a big price to be paid.
But everyone pays, and this seems to be something we have forgotten and we have failed to teach the young people as far as I can tell. This is real -- a mystery and a catastrophe at the same time.
GUTFELD: Yes, you know, and basically, you say if you want to change your life? Essentially, the first thing you should do is clean your room?
PETERSON: Well, I am a traditionalist in part because of my social science training like one of the things I have learned as an active clinician and a social scientist is that most feel-good, large scale interventions end badly.
Like it's really hard to take a system that is working reasonably well and make it better, but it's easy to take a system that is working reasonably well and make it worse.
And so, what that -- knowing that and we know that that is the case, that should encourage you to scale back your ambitions and if you want to make things better, you could start by taking care of things that are within your control and also doing it in a way that is least likely to cause harm for other people. And so, this clean your room idea has become somewhat of an internet meme, but if you try it and try to organize those things right around you, you will find that it is a lot more difficult and demanding than it looks.
GUTFELD: Yes, it reminds me when I was in college, the people that were the loudest activists, they didn't clean their room. They could change the world, but they couldn't change the toilet roll. It's true and they wouldn't even pay for the toilet roll.
I love this -- there are so many good things in there, and I want to talk about the lobsters, because you do a chapter on lobsters and it really does tell you about the kind of sobering meaning of life because what exists in lobsters exist in humans and you could take the leap from there of how it relates to the rise of Christianity and Jesus Christ is that fair to say?
PETERSON: That's a tough leap, that last one.
GUTFELD: Well, lobsters -- the suffering of lobsters is based on a dominance hierarchy.
GUTFELD: And the dominance hierarchy exists among humans.
PETERSON: Well, the point that I was trying to make in that chapter which is the first one among others is that if the radical left has a proclivity to blame hierarchy and inequality on western culture and capitalism and look, inequality can be a real problem because people stack up at the bottom and that can destabilize your entire society, and no one likes poverty.
Like no one is in favor of poverty, but the problem is that the reasons for inequality are much older than human society itself.
And so, when the radical leftists play their linguistic games, let's say, and blame all of that on capitalism, then they are not treating the problem with its requisite seriousness, like we actually don't know what to do about radical inequality and demolishing the western system or unless you bring everyone down to zero, which is something that has happened before.
It is not going to address the issue. And so that was the point that I was making in that chapter.
GUTFELD: The lobsters. Yes, because the lobsters exist way before us and they have inequality. Horrible inequality based on dominance hierarchy.
The only reason why I brought up Christianity and I know we have to go is because it was a remedy to dealing with the equality if every individual is seeking truth that is.
PETERSON: That is your best bet. Like your best bet to moving forward through life despite the fact that it is extraordinarily difficult is to look clearly at what is in front of you and to tell the truth and just speak the truth.
There is an idea -- deep idea that is laid out in the biblical corpus that being that you extract from the future let's say when you are making your choices, if the being that you extract from the future with truth is good and that is an unbelievably powerful idea. It would be lovely if that was true.
You imagine that the best way to bring the best world into existence is to tell the truth and to live out the truth. I'd believe that that's the case, so.
GUTFELD: There you go. But the book. Good book. Great book. Up next why are there fewer women engineers?
Someone should call Amtrak.
Men suck. That's according to engineering professors who argue in some journal that masculine social norms prevent women from becoming engineers.
They say these harmful norms can include a desire to win, emotional regulation, the exertion of dominance over others, a sense of invincibility and risk-taking.
They conclude that masculinity and their harmful norms justified the subordination of women. Harmful norms? The only harmful norm I know is this dancing bear.
That fits into this story, definitely.
All right, Dr. Peterson, so if some co-worker comes to you for advice over a parent's illness, you have to bill them because that's an emotional thing, and if you are going for a job interview, you should show up in like filthy rags as a way of not to outshine others.
That's how you would deal with this advice?
PETERSON: You know, well, there is this idea that is promoted by people called social constructionists that all of the differences between men and women are cultural in origin and all of the evidence -- the credible evidence that has been gathered over the last three decades indicates that that is wrong.
So, one good example of that is in egalitarian societies like Scandinavia, like the Scandinavian countries, the differences between men and women, the personality differences and differences in interests are bigger, not smaller. Tens of thousands of data points generated by generally, left leaning social scientists.
GUTFELD: Yes, the women even though there are no gender differences, they would still be more to become nurses than men?
GUTFELD: By far.
PETERSON: And fewer engineers and that gap grows as societies becomes more egalitarian. It doesn't shrink. That means by the way, just so everyone is clear about this, that the leftist social constructionists are completely wrong and that's why they are taking the legislative route to try to enforce their views.
GUTFELD: That's scary.
PETERSON: Yes. That's for sure.
ROEBUCK: I have been married three times. I may not be the perfect -- I may not have this answered right, but I am getting better. I am getting better.
GUTFELD: Three's a charm.
ROEBUCK: And Tammy is amazing. Tammy is amazing.
GUTFELD: For now.
ROEBUCK: She is such a fan.
GUTFELD: I am kidding, Tammy.
ROEBUCK: No, can I tell you so, I always say this is my third wife, Tammy, she says I am your last wife. Now, that is a threat, right? That's a threat.
MURDOCH: One hundred percent.
GUTFELD: Oh my god. What about -- Kat, do you buy any of this? Are you get extra pay for emotional support?
TIMPF: So, on the ideological level, this disgusts me. Just because I am a woman doesn't mean I need extra help or extra support just to do all the same things that men do. That's offensive.
On a practical level, yes, I would take the money.
GUTFELD: Tyrus, last words.
MURDOCH: Everything on the list I call weekend, so I am masculine, I am sorry I cannot help it. I am special. You like me.
GUTFELD: All right, we all know that. Don't go anywhere. Up next, we'll talk to Dan about his new movie, "Getting Grace."
GUTFELD: All right, Dan Roebuck is in a movie out in theaters this weekend. It is awesome. It is called, "Getting Grace." Daniel, first question, what is it about?
ROEBUCK: It's about a teenage girl -- they told me to talk fast. It's about a teenage girl dying of cancer. She goes in to a funeral home to find out what is going to happen after she dies, but she ends up teaching the funeral director how to celebrate life.
It is a film about having faith and how to accept every day like it is new and amazing.
ROEBUCK: I am glad that you put, GG -- "Getting Grace" right on the floor.
GUTFELD: You are one of Hollywood's busiest character actors. Were you ever a leading man in anything?
ROEBUCK: Well, in "Getting Grace" but you know, I had to write and direct and produce it, co-write it, wrote it with Jeff Lewis. I had to do all that to cast myself in this role, but I have been a leading man like in "Cave Girl," you may not remember.
GUTFELD: I remember "Cave Girl."
ROEBUCK: "Cave Girl" I was the leading man and then in "River's Edge" I guess, I was a leading man, but then I killed the leading lady.
GUTFELD: That's true. If you have not seen "River's Edge," again, a terrific film. You don't get any money out of that now though?
ROEBUCK: A little bit, a little bit. But let's talk about "Getting Grace." So, "Getting Grace" is opening nationwide and we made it in -- you and I share an amazing thing, we lived in the same place for a little while.
GUTFELD: Allentown, Pennsylvania. Yes.
ROEBUCK: We shot the movie there in the Lehigh Valley.
GUTFELD: Yes, a beautiful, beautiful area and a wonderful location and they supported you, that's was the support.
ROEBUCK: It was so great. We are coming back to do another one. We are going to do a movie called, "The Hail Mary." But "Getting Grace" is -- one of the characters is the town and to make a movie in the place you grew up and go, "There's my hotdog shop, and that's the place I used to kiss the girl." Where we have the Yoccos, pizza. I have got to be fair, spread the love, and they are all in the movie.
GUTFELD: Excellent. You got a lot of free Yocco's hotdogs. All right.
ROEBUCK: We'll see.
GUTFELD: Dan, we've got to go. Thank you, Dr. Jordan Peterson. Daniel Roebuck, Kat Timpf, Tyrus. Our studio audience. I am Greg Gutfeld, I love you, America.
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