Trump doubles down on assault on FBI

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 4, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Katie Pavlich and Brian Kilmeade. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

President Trump is lashing out at the FBI after reports that special counsel Robert Mueller fired a top FBI agent in August from his Russian investigation team because of anti-Trump text he may have sent. The president tweeting yesterday, after years of Comey, with the phony and dishonest Clinton investigation and more, running the FBI, its reputation is in tatters. Worst in history. But fear not, we will bring it back to greatness. This morning the president doubled down calling out the hypocrisy between how the agency has treated Michael Flynn versus Hillary Clinton.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I feel badly for General Flynn. I feel very badly. He's led a very strong life and I feel very badly, John. I will say this. Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI, and nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and they destroyed his life. I think it's a shame. Hillary Clinton on the Fourth of July weekend went to the FBI not under oath. It was the most incredible thing anyone's ever seen. She lied many times. Nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and it's like they ruined his life. Very unfair.


GUILFOYLE: Meanwhile a prominent lawmakers is calling for the Clinton email investigation to be reopened in light of these new developments.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I worked in the Justice Department for many years. FBI agents should not bring in their own political bias into these investigations. And the fact that this was one of the lead agents on the Hillary Clinton email investigation, if true, I think it's very disturbing. And possibly could call for reopening of that investigation.


GUILFOYLE: All right. So big developments every day when you wake up, Brian, right, with -- morning together with friends.

BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah. I mean, it's just unbelievable how much -- and thank you very for the promo. I owe you one. By the way, watch Kimberly tonight. What are you doing after this?

GUILFOYLE: Well, going to a party.


KILMEADE: I guess we're not invited.


KILMEADE: I'm amaze of what he is a part of. He was a part of the Hillary interview, OK? He's part of that. He is part of looking through the 35,000 emails that cropped up on Anthony Weiner's laptop. He might have been part -- may be an advocate, we're about to find out because he would not commit to an interview with the house intelligence committee to Fusion GPS and making that part of the investigation. So this guy is a main part of it. Now he said you're in resources, which is interesting. People call him up and asked how many sick days they have left. So how can you possible go to human resources with an investigative background? It's bizarre what has happened and I'm wondering if he is the only one.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. Katie, nice to have you here.

KATIE PAVLICH, CO-HOST: It's great to be here. Thank you so much.

GUILFOYLE: So what do you make of these developments?

PAVLICH: Well, I give Bob Mueller credit for moving the guys in human resources. However, He was not fired. Some people keep saying he's fired, he was not. But the more we learn about how the Clinton email investigation was handled, the dirtier it looks. If you look at the web surrounding the investigation, whether it's this guy who was part of it and was an anti-Trump, pro-Hillary person, sending these texts to someone he was having an affair with.


PAVLICH: . during the investigation. You add in Andrew McCabe whose wife was friends with the Clintons and the McCulloch's who was close to the Clintons. Then on top of it, you add in Loretta Lynch who told Comey to call this a matter, not a criminal investigation. And then you go back to Comey and what he said when he exonerated Hillary Clinton saying that, yes, we have evidence a potential violations with statutes, but nobody is really going to press this case. And then we find out that he wrote the exoneration of Hillary Clinton months ahead of time. The more we learn, the dirtier it is, and it seems like they need to look at it again

GUILFOYLE: All right. So Jesse, where does this go?

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, not well for this guy working in the rubber room.


WATTERS: But, I mean, the FBI looks about as crooked as Hillary. If this guy is the anti-Trump.

GUILFOYLE: That bad?

WATTERS: Pretty bad. He's anti-Trump, and he is the lead investigator of Trump. He interviewed Flynn himself and didn't even warn Flynn that he was coming to interview him. Put him under oath. Flynn didn't even know he was under oath. Flynn didn't have a lawyer present during the interview. So you have that. Then, also, led the Hillary Clinton email investigation and, apparently, he was one of the ones that changed the language that Comey said from grossly negligent to extremely careless. And as you know, that's the statute, grossly negligent, which would have triggered the indictment. So, you also have the FBI director, McCabe, whose wife donated to Clinton ally Terry McAuliffe, didn't tell us about that.

And now we're learning that McCabe is the point of contact from the Clinton-funded fake Russia dossier which we haven't heard anything about from the FBI yet. And they're stonewalling on the documents from the tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton in Loretta Lynch. And we now know from the documents that we have seen they were frantically trying to cover it up. And the Mueller team stacked with Democratic donors. Mueller is Comey's professional mentor, and it looks like Comey's now probably guilty of removing FBI documents after he was fired and illegally leaking them. The whole thing looks really bad, and I really don't trust the integrity of the investigation anymore.

GUILFOYLE: There you go. All right. So Juan, do you think this is very problematic for the president?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yeah. And I'll tell you what's problematic, General Flynn.

GUILFOYLE: That was a softball question.

WILLIAMS: General Flynn pleaded guilty on Friday. And then, I think people here are just so desperate to try to distract and derail what is obvious and what's in front of us all, which is the president is in trouble in terms of that investigation with Flynn having pleaded guilty, made a deal with Mueller and potentially now going to tell secrets that could lead up the trail there, apparently, Jared Kushner and the target. I think people here and I think the president are just desperate to try to distract people.

GUILFOYLE: What's so desperate about trying to get the truth out?


GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I think that sounds like a good idea.

WILLIAMS: Talk about fake news. This story is fake news because guess what? The FBI allows agents to express their opinion. You can have a political opinion.

PAVLICH: Not on the job.

WILLIAMS: No, in term of your.


WILLIAMS: Let me finish. He didn't -- the reason he was sent to H.R., Jesse, is that Robert Mueller wants to be cleaner than Caesar's wife or whatever, right? And so, when he learned that this guy had a twitter or email that could be uncovered, expressed an opinion.

WATTERS: It's too late. He already led the Clinton anti-Trump investigation.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you something.

WATTERS: Removing him now doesn't do anything.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you something, policeman on the street to FBI agent all have personal opinions. It doesn't mean they can't do their job, Jesse.

WATTERS: So, do you trust this guy to lead a nonpartisan investigation?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Because.

WATTERS: I wouldn't.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you something. He was regarded by FBI agents in Washington as the best. He is a very good investigator.

WATTERS: Comey was regarded as the best too. And he totally bias.


WILLIAMS: He didn't. No. That's your opinion. That's your politics. But there is no evidence that would have suggested that Hillary Clinton be indicted.


KILMEADE: Juan, Hillary Clinton is the one who thinks he botched everything.


WILLIAMS: . went overboard.

KILMEADE: Oh, he went overboard.


KILMEADE: Either he's great or.


WILLIAMS: I didn't say he was great or bad. I'm just saying nobody is suggesting there was any basis on which to charge Hillary Clinton with a crime.

PAVLICH: If the shoe was on the other foot, and during the Clinton investigation there was an FBI agent texting his mistress anti-Hillary, pro-Trump text messages, I guarantee you, you would have a different opinion.

WILLIAMS: You would have to put a whole bunch of Americans in the dock if you said tweeting something that was anti-Trump.


PAVLICH: That's not the point. The point is that based on the exact investigation that he was heavily involved in, he was involved in the Clinton investigation, he was involved in the Trump investigation for special counsel. Bob Mueller removed him for a reason.


PAVLICH: For you to say there's nothing that happened and for you to also say that Comey didn't think anything was wrong. Well, why didn't he say about Hillary Clinton there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information?

WILLIAMS: And he also said that nobody, no prosecutor would bring a case against Hillary Clinton.

PAVLICH: Based on an investigation done.


WILLIAMS: Now we're in to a situation where the real story today is things like, will Trump pardon his people? John Dowd, his lawyer saying, oh, Trump can't be found guilty of obstruction because he's the commander-in- chief. He can do anything he wants to do, say Trump people. And people who are buying into this story about Strzok are just playing into Trump's hands.

KILMEADE: No. In fact, over the weekend, you listen to Sunday shows, even reluctantly you saw a lot of these hosts goes, well, this play exactly what Republicans were saying that they have a problem with the way in which the FBI at the highest level was going about this interrogations. There's one aspect that's not been brought up yet, and that is why for the longest time, as McCabe as well as this guy, Strzok, didn't know his name, ducking the request to have them come in front of the house intelligence committee. Now they finally acquiesce to Devin Nunes and will come in and speak. Although, McCabe says I have a conflict with my schedule. I wish Mike Flynn had a conflict with his schedule when he was told by Strzok that he had to go under oath and answer that question.

WILLIAMS: I think they're many people than Strzok who would say that General Flynn had to go under oath because, remember, Sally Yates at the Justice Department, who is the acting attorney general of the time, everybody said this guy has told lies about his meetings.


WILLIAMS: That's a whole different kettle of fish. And you guys are just trying to throw everything in. And you know what? You want to whip up on Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is not the issue here. The issue here is Trump and potential collusion.

GUILFOYLE: That there is. The juxtaposition between the two.


WATTERS: I'll tell you the difference. Hillary Clinton put national security at risk, lives, methods and sources. Hillary Clinton repeatedly didn't tell the truth.

GUILFOYLE: Destroyed evidence.

WATTERS: She destroyed her emails after they were subpoenaed. She smashed blackberries with hammers. When she went in for the FBI interview, she never was put under oath. General Flynn never put national security at risk, never did it, and he never destroyed any evidence. Yet, he was put under oath without a lawyer and he's now lost everything.


WILLIAMS: Nobody -- there's no evidence that she -- you say that.


WILLIAMS: Nothing revealed.

KILMEADE: Because she bleached her emails.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, nobody says she was hacked or any foreign government gained information. Nobody.

WATTERS: Yeah. Look it up, Juan.

PAVLICH: Just because there is a double standard does not mean that Michael Flynn is lying to the FBI, which even President Trump admits he did. Doesn't justify that. However, there is a double standard, and in America, people have serious questions about our federal institutions, the FBI being one of them. And when you have this long list of conflicts of interest, people do question why Hillary Clinton got up past when a number of other people who did far less than her did not. That's a legitimate concern for them to have.

WILLIAMS: What conflict of interest exists in your mind, because he has a personal opinion?

PAVLICH: The idea that the deputy -- FBI director, at the time, wife was friends with the Clintons.


WILLIAMS: She wasn't friends.

PAVLICH: Yes, they were.

WILLIAMS: She got a campaign contribution.


WILLIAMS: It wasn't covered up. No, it wasn't.


WILLIAMS: Again, why can't my wife run for office, and they say because she's running, you can't do your job?

PAVLICH: That's not the issue.

WATTERS: That's exactly why you don't want any appearance of impropriety.


WILLIAMS: I'm amazed that you guys, who are normally so pro-law enforcement, would agree when the president attacks the FBI.


KILMEADE: I wish he would've been more specific and.

PAVLICH: I would agree.

KILMEADE: . I'm not comfortable with that at all because some of the hardest working.


WILLIAMS: I agree. So where is this coming from?

GUILFOYLE: The inference was there. That it wasn't to disparage the FBI, and the rank and file, and the hardworking men and women that are there.


GUILFOYLE: That's right. We all know what he's talking about.

WILLIAMS: You don't think he said the FBI is the worst in history, in tatters.


KILMEADE: He should have said management.


WILLIAMS: I just think you guys are falling for Trump's tactics here and trying to distract people from the Flynn investigation and for the worst tax bill.


GUILFOYLE: Juan is like jumping blocks here.


WILLIAMS: It's because that's all he does. He distracts people, he plays these games, and you guys go for it every time.

KILMEADE: You know what a distraction would be? A distraction would be bringing up something at Gitmo. That would be a distraction.

WATTERS: Or like sending missiles over at Milosevic's backyard.


KILMEADE: But here's the thing. This is -- there's nobody else paying attention. This played out almost as if it was a movie. Just when people wonder about where James Comey and company were doing and what they were up to, if they're actually playing this on a staight and arrow, out comes this revelation from Mueller about Strzok having these anti-Trump tweets to come forward, and they move him out into human resources and he has at the nexus of everything controversial.

WILLIAMS: I would think he would praise him that.


WATTERS: Juan, this happened in August.


KILMEADE: The house intelligence committee.


WILLIAMS: They said there's a potential here. You have an opinion and we're not going to risk it. You're gone. He's gone. You guys should be applauding.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, you're gone. Coming up, President Trump blasts ABC for their false Mike Flynn report. His explosive reaction for the fake news when we return. Stay with us.



UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news. ABC News' Brian Ross is reporting Michael Flynn promised full cooperation to the Mueller team and is prepared to testify that as a candidate, Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians.


UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: He goes to jail. He goes to jail. He goes to jail. Lock him up.


WATTERS: The ladies of "The View" celebrated the news, but we now know it was false. ABC News has suspended chief investigative correspondent Brian Ross after incorrectly reporting that during the campaign then candidate Trump had directed Michael Flynn to make contact with Russian officials. Ross later clarified, saying Trump had actually asked Flynn to make contact with Russia after the election when he was president-elect. ABC apologized, saying Ross' report, quote, has not been fully vetted to our editorial standards process. President Trump slammed the fake news, tweeting, people who lost money when the stock market went down 350 points based on the false and dishonest reporting of Brian Ross of ABC News, he has been suspended, should consider hiring a lawyer and suing ABC for the damages this bad reporting has caused many millions of dollars. So, Kilmeade, let's begin with you. The look on Joy Behar's face, pure joy, I would say.

KILMEADE: She would do the head of the table today where she had to clarify that she just got the report. If you watch earlier in that tape, they pretend as if it's breaking news and they stick it on Friday. They stick this blue card in front of her and this is breaking news. So they were mocking breaking news. And she reads it. She goes, oh, it's Russian. By the way, is he's colluding with Russia for America, All right, first off. Number two, today she basically got close to apologizing for not taking full responsibility for it. But I think it's America's fault for looking at The View as legitimate news.

WATTERS: That's a good point.

GUILFOYLE: But it isn't a news show, let's be honest. I mean, this is.

KILMEADE: Except for Megan McCain.

WATTERS: Kimberly, ABC is now saying that not only is he being suspended and under investigation for a month without pay, that he's no longer going to be able to report about anything regarding Donald Trump. So that leaves Brian Ross with very little.

GUILFOYLE: Out of luck. Out of, basically, a job. Out of topic, content, out of order. I mean, what's he going to do?

WATTERS: I don't know.


WATTERS: Yeah. Send him to H.R.

GUILFOYLE: Make him copy.

WATTERS: That's right.

GUILFOYLE: But listen, this is a problem. Remember when we blamed this whole thing five years ago about the tea party, something to blame with a mass shooting.

WATTERS: In Colorado, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: I believe we have a pattern here. So this is a problem. ABC News has to come to terms with it because it's not like this was a first offense so it's problematic, hence, probably, the suspension here. I mean, as for Joy, I give her a pass. She was just living up to her name.


PAVLICH: She was very excited.

WATTERS: Juan, listen, you said in the last segment that Trump did a lot of this diversion, distracting. But when someone like Ross tweets out something so wrong, it gives the president ammunition to go after him and not talk about Flynn, but talk about fake news.

WILLIAMS: I agree.

WATTERS: So, I mean, the media is just as culpable of distracting as the president.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, I think he made a mistake.

WATTERS: Was it an honest mistake?

WILLIAMS: That's the question. So, I mean, Brian Ross is a well-known journalist. So it's not as if this is some guy who just came flying in and never done any reporting that was problematic for liberals or Democrats. That's just not Brian Ross. He's won seven duPonts, five Edward R. Murrow, 16 Emmy's, so he's a legitimate reporter. The problem here, to me, given my background as a reporter, it seems to me like he's not even saying the source got it wrong. It seems to me like he jumped to a conclusion that the contact between Flynn and Trump -- Trump saying go contact the Russians was during the campaign, not during the transition. And there's nothing wrong with contact with the president-elect and these foreign governments.


WILLIAMS: So Ross made a mistake. Now as it, as you suggest, something political? I don't know. But I wonder, why wasn't there a second source? Because he doesn't say the source is wrong, he seems to be playing -- and ABC seems to be hammering him for making the wrong conclusion.

PAVLICH: It wasn't just about the Russia connection. The thing that's bothering me about the whole story is they only mention Russia when the story was actually about Russia and a dozen other countries that they were contacting during the transition, and they're just focusing on what they want to be the conclusion and that is somehow the Trump campaign or transition team nefariously contacted Russia to do something with the election, which isn't true based on the reporting that they have. The thing is that fake news, the mainstream media, has been trying to get out of their fake news hole since President Trump classified them that way and they just keep digging deeper. And of a time when audiences are shrinking, they really have a lot of credibility mending to do and they're not really helping themselves. And they have people like Brian Ross -- who by the way has a habit of jumping to conclusions. Ari Fleischer said, to add to Kimberly's point, that during the Iraq war he claims that Saddam Hussein was the one who sent anthrax to Washington, D.C., or (INAUDIBLE) that was previously. But the point is that he has a habit of doing this, and he should know better because he has journalism credentials.

WATTERS: All right. And speaking of the Emmy that Ross won, maybe he should get that fake news award.


WATTERS: Up next, more fallout from the outrageous Kate Steinle verdict. Why the ICE director is blasting sanctuary city policy when The Five returns.


KILMEADE: All right. New fallout from that outrageous Kate Steinle verdict last week, remember Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, a million name, one bad guy. An illegal immigrant who already had been deported back to Mexico five separate times was acquitted in the 2015 murder of Kate Steinle of San Francisco at a pier. Well, today an Indiana congressman, get this, he introduce a bill that would threaten huge fines and prison times for elected officials accused of sheltering criminal illegals from deportation. Earlier on Fox & Friends, my second favorite morning show, I love GMA just -- would stray in everything, the acting director of ICE, the immigration custom enforcement organization, slammed sanctuary city policies in the wake of the killing.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Sanctuary city policies do a lot of things. None of them are very good. First of all, they entice further illegal entry. Sanctuary city is alien smugglers best friend. You don't think these aliens smuggling organizations are using sanctuary cities as a selling point? Hey, we all get you to San Francisco. We're going to get you to Chicago. Even if you get arrested by the police, we're not going to work with ICE to turn you over to them. What the sanctuary cities policies actually do is put more illegal aliens on my radar, it's going to result in more arrests, so it's all big lie about sanctuary cities.


KILMEADE: And he went on to say build the wall. It works. We're going to let people stable. We don't want to stop them for coming in. It's called the slap act, Kimberly. Do you think we can actually do that? Saying you're not enforcing the sanctuary city policy, so Mr. Mayor you're going to jail? Where you pay a big fine?

GUILFOYLE: Wouldn't that be amazing? We have the ability to do so. You actually could. But there hasn't been a case to basically put it out there and test is successfully.

KILMEADE: Rahm Emanuel.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Rahm Emanuel -- but listen, the thing is now you have a president with the wherewithal to do it. And to say this is what we're going to do. We're going to enforce these policies and actually make sure that those under him do that and enforce the law and, actually, put some of these cases forward. We've talked to Sheriff Clark about it the other night, and he said, you know, really, they need to make an example of some of these people of sheriffs, of mayors, of people that are in these cities that are allowing these people to come in, and reoffend and not follow the law.

KILMEADE: Well, Kimberly said it right, Katie Pavlich. However, the judges aren't stepping up. They're not backing him up. So what are they supposed to do? They keep overturning what the president is doing when he ask the attorney general to deny federal funding?

PAVLICH: I don't understand why we need another law just for lawmakers in these cities who are harboring illegal aliens. It's already illegal, as a regular citizen of the United States, to harbor illegal aliens, to transfer them, to help them in any way.

So this idea that we again need another layer of bureaucracy to hold him accountable is really difficult to deal with. I'm really happy that the DOJ is pursuing charges against this guy. From personal experience, it's not just murder that impact the lives of everyday citizens. It's all kinds of other crimes which, by the way, aren't documented. Because they're by illegal aliens in our cities.

KILMEADE: I'll tell you, Jesse, Zarate is not going to kill again. I'm not worried about that, but I'm worried about the message sent. You can get away with murder in this country. You can stay in certain cities; it won't be a problem. I'm worried about the message sent to Central and South America.

WATTERS: That's a great point. Zarate admitted on tape to a local ABC affiliate in San Francisco the reason he kept coming back to San Francisco was because of the sanctuary city policy.


WATTERS: It acts as a magnet.

When we did the whole Jessica's Law campaign about child sex offenders, Vermont was a state where they were flooded with sex offenders, child sex offenders. And the reason: because they were so lenient when you commit a crime against a child, and that's what attracts these perverts. And this is what the result of the policy is. You're going to get more and more criminal illegal aliens flooding into these sanctuary cities.

KILMEADE: Juan, we've got another big story I want to go over, but I want you to weigh in.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, I -- you know, when I saw that verdict, I was thinking to myself how interesting that the jury never heard anything about his immigration status.

GUILFOYLE: Ask the judge.

WILLIAMS: While you listen to the news, and the news is all about, "Oh, he's an illegal immigrant." And you realize, wait a second. This was so politicized that we have a different view than the people who actually sat in judgment of the murder charge. Because of course, we know the bullet hit the ground and all that, and he didn't know her. So that's -- the jury came to an American, honest, neutral decision of peers. Right?


WILLIAMS: But the thing about it, I think that people on the right are upset. I find it crazy. People are saying "Let's call it Kate's Wall." So they're using this now as justification for the wall, when the wall is having its own trouble, or trying to create new laws when, as we just heard...

KILMEADE: Tom -- I'm sure you weren't up that early, but Tom said this morning that the wall helped San Diego and El Paso; and he wants to get the barrier built. It's already proven to work.

But I want to go over this. The Supreme Court has allowed President Trump's travel ban to go into full effect by a final count of 7-2. Ginsburg and Sotomayor were the dissenters. Kimberly, what does this mean? The travel ban's back in. It was supposed to be temporary anyway. What about the impact of this decision?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, that's what's so fascinating, right, because by the time the courts hear these positions in these cases, the actual time frame for the ban then has already expired.

So what do you do, because it was supposed to be temporary, but then what it does is it establishes future precedent if then they were going to go to try to employ it again and implement it.

So what I think here, though, I want to touch on the sanctuary cities, having been a prosecutor in San Francisco. You know, you really see just the flagrant disregard for the law. It's not just the juries that accept crazy defenses like the Twinkie defense that they accepted for Mayor Moscone; but it's the judges not allowing and keeping out evidence that would be probative for a jury to hear to make the right decision.

And this, to be honest with you, is a slam dunk case. A felon in possession, it's a felony murder. As long as -- if you're a felon, you're in possession of a weapon and a crime is committed, like a murder, done.

WATTERS: He confessed. He confessed.

GUILFOYLE: It doesn't even matter. Like honesty, they could have witnessed it right there in front of them, and it seems they were disregarded.

KILMEADE: Let the record show, I asked you one question and you went a different way.

GUILFOYLE: I answered four.

KILMEADE: How dare you do that? You have broken a violation of "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: I'm just trying to help the viewers.

KILMEADE: You're in contempt, young lady.

All right. So Chad, Iran, Libya, Syria and Yemen, get your paperwork together. You're going to have some trouble getting in if it's not.

Meanwhile, straight ahead, up next, honored for kneeling. The award that Colin Kaepernick just received will have you fuming, perhaps, when "The Five" returns, which will happen. We will come back.


WILLIAMS: Colin Kaepernick, who launched a protest movement when he refused to stand for the national anthem before NFL games, is now being honored by the Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU. The former 49ers quarterback received the 2017 Courageous Advocate Award at a ceremony in California last night. Please watch.


COLIN KAEPERNICK, RECIPIENT OF COURAGEOUS ADVOCATE AWARD: He must confront systemic oppression as a doctor would a disease. You identify it. You call it out. You treat it and you defeat it. We all have an obligation, no matter the risk and regardless of reward, to stand up for our fellow men and women who being oppressed -- men and women who are being oppressed with the understanding that human rights cannot be compromised.

In the words of Frederick Douglass, if there is no struggle, there is no progress.


WILLIAMS: And now Kaepernick has not only been honored by the ACLU but by "GQ," and he's in the running, and I think among the final three, for TIME magazine's Man of the Year. Jesse, what do you think?

WATTERS: I can't name one good thing that came from him kneeling. He divided the country. He divided NFL locker rooms. He hurt the NFL brand. He hurt their ratings. He hurt their attendance.

GUILFOYLE: The bottom line.

WATTERS: He offended the military. He offended law enforcement. He offended a lot of patriotic Americans. And he's made himself now so toxic that he can't himself do what he loves to do for a living, and that's play football.

So no one is talking about his chief beef, which is police brutality. So I think when it comes to failed protests, this might be probably one of the biggest failed protests of this country, besides maybe Occupy Wall Street.

GUILFOYLE: Similar to this career.

WILLIAMS: So Katie, let me just ask you, because I disagree with Jesse. I think, in fact, it started last year; and it has, I think, by Jesse's own account, turned the NFL upside down. Everybody is talking about it. We pay attention to it. More players, I think just recently, about 20 players still kneeling. What do you think?

PAVLICH: But are there any results about stopping oppression? I haven't seen Colin Kaepernick in the inner-city working with police officers to try and mend the relationship between police and local communities.

I've seen the Justice Department give a whole lot more money and resources to do just that, to fund local policing and community work so that we can address this problem.

So yes, he can do what he wants. They -- all these liberal groups with people like Jane Fonda attending this ACLU dinner. GQ celebrating him. They're not in step with the rest of how America feels.

And if he really wants to make a difference, it's past time to kneel, and it's time for him to go into these communities he claims to care about, go talk to the people he says are oppressed, talk to the country about specifically what they're going through and do something about it. But until then, I haven't seen him anything except for talk a whole lot and cause all the problems that Jesse laid out.

WILLIAMS: And Kimberly, the NFL says they're going to give $90 million over the next seven years to work on social justice issues in the wake of the Kaepernick protest and the fact that it was emulated by so many other NFL players.

GUILFOYLE: OK, well, I mean, you know, money towards good causes are always a good thing. But in terms of Colin Kaepernick, you know, I agree with Katie, that what is he really doing to effectuate, you know, positive change? I guess he's, like, the poster boy for protests or something? He's like the supermodel for protests? I don't know. That's fine. He's, you know, doing covers of magazines. They have prepared speeches for him, make sure they always have a couple quotable sound bites.

I mean, he seems to be doing a better job of being this, like, poster boy versus the quarterback, letting down my team, the 49ers, which is a football dynasty and empire forever under amazing quarterbacks like Montana and Steve Young.

WATTERS: Are you suggesting he didn't write his own speech? Is that what you're suggesting?

GUILFOYLE: I suggested a whole lot of all of that. I'm not sorry for any of it.

KILMEADE: The NFL is saying, "Here's $90 million. I'm listening to you. I'm not casting you aside. I'm not saying that what you're saying is not worthy."


KILMEADE: So they have two player representatives go in, and they have meetings. Because like it or not, even though football is a juggernaut and the most successful league in the entire world going into this season, they see the damage. They see the seats empty. They see the revenue potentially going down. They see that ESPN might not even bid for this league, because it might not pay off for them to do it. They've already laid off 500 people.

So they say, "OK, we're going to handle this inside."

So the players come out and go, like, cut a deal. And half the players go, "You don't represent me." Really? "You don't represent me?" Because you sent those players in. They go, "I don't like the deal you cut." What do you want, $100 million instead of $90 million?

So 20 players either put a fist in the air or take a knee. If success is taking a knee or putting the first in the air, fine. If success is coming up with a solution, he is a big failure.

PAVLICH: And has an opportunity to do a lot of good here. He should take advice from people he quotes, like Frederick Douglass, a Republican, by the way, who was a self-made man, escaped slavery and was a real model for what you should do with your life after you've really been oppressed. He could use some humility, take a step back, learn from people who have done it before him and go into these communities that he says he cares about and make a difference. But right now he's just accepting awards at the fancy Hollywood parties. And that's not doing anything for police brutality.

WILLIAMS: Well, let's -- So let's just have a jump off here. I won't direct this to any one of you, but I think if you look into the mindset of why he is being considered for Man of the Year by TIME, GQ, honored by the ACLU, is because people seem as a martyr.

PAVLICH: Oh, come on.

WILLIAMS: That he has given up some of his -- hang on, let me finish. He has given up some of the prime of his athletic career to stand for a cause.

KILMEADE: I'll build on that.


KILMEADE: When the NFL and these teams, individually, there's no collusion, even though he's suing for collusion. We love that word. It's Jesse's favorite.

But as soon as -- if they hired him even as a backup -- he left the 49ers, OK? He wanted to go out. If he got hired in Texas, that team seems to emulate his style, it would have been over. He wouldn't be getting this award.

He also said, "If I get hired, I'm standing." So what was your point? If you get hired, you're standing. Yet nothing's changed. We give you $90 million, you still don't want to get up. Or his followers don't. I don't -- my mind can't get around it.

GUILFOYLE: Because now he wants the money back. So guess what? That's hypocrisy.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I think the guy. You may disagree with him...

GUILFOYLE: Why are you so in love with him?

WILLIAMS: ... but I think he stood for his principles.

Directly ahead, it's the sports highlight everybody is talking about. Our reaction next.


PAVLICH: And now to the sports highlight that everyone is talking about today: a cheerleader's gravity-defying stunt that's going viral. Watch.




PAVLICH: Ariel Oliver, a cheerleader at Mandel High School in Texas, is doing the so-called invisible box move. It's when people put an invisible box on the floor and then pretend to put their left foot on it while their right foot leaps over it. Which I think Juan was doing this in the green room earlier.

WILLIAMS: You've got the wrong guy.

PAVLICH: There's no video, though.

WILLIAMS: How much strength does she have in that left leg? Unbelievable.

KILMEADE: Let's see that again.

GUILFOYLE: Let's do it again.

KILMEADE: Let's do it one more time. What do you mean the strength in the left leg?

WILLIAMS: Well, look, she just pushes off with the left leg alone. She's got the right leg up. The right leg goes up. And then watch the left leg.

PAVLICH: She bolts (ph) herself up. See?

WILLIAMS: On one leg, Brian.

PAVLICH: Yes, Brian...

KILMEADE: That's not -- I mean, it doesn't seem possible.

WATTERS: I think it's doctored video. It's fake news.

WILLIAMS: It's fake?

WATTERS: I think Brian Ross put the video out.

PAVLICH: Give that girl a scholarship to college.

KILMEADE: As much as I appreciate this sports story, the No. 1 sports story you refused to cover.

WILLIAMS: What's that?

KILMEADE: The Giants have fired their general manager and head coach because they benched Eli Manning after a terrible 2-10 season.

WATTERS: Maybe they're going to sign Kaepernick.

KILMEADE: Maybe they could. McAdoo is out; Reese is out, and Eli Manning will start this week. I don't know who the new coach is. That is the No. 1 story.

WILLIAMS: That is huge news.

KILMEADE: Right? Isn't that unbelievable?

GUILFOYLE: They should employ a winning strategy.

WILLIAMS: I don't like the way they treated Eli Manning.

KILMEADE: That's what...

WILLIAMS: But it's because I just think Eli Manning is the brand of the New York Giants.


WILLIAMS: We were talking about brand damage. You were talking about that. I mean, Eli Manning has won two Super Bowls over Tom Brady. So...

PAVLICH: Brian, are you really saying that's more important than this girl?

WILLIAMS: No, it's not. See, we're playing Brian's game.

PAVLICH: This is the most important story of the Internet.

KILMEADE: Yes, right, and the Internet, which is not a fan, by the way, of Jesse. I believe that my story is bigger. And I will say this.

PAVLICH: I believe.

KILMEADE: The last time -- I'm doing a Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE (singing): I believe...

KILMEADE: The last time a Manning was not starting in the NFL on a Sunday, the Twin Towers stood and Google didn't exist. That's what happened in America on Sunday.

GUILFOYLE: Do you know what you are? Besides a guest. You are a little bit of, like, a frustrated sports anchor. I'm telling you. You love sports. You're so good at it. You should be doing it.

WILLIAMS: Excuse me. Can we -- can we defer to Katie?

PAVLICH: Can we get back to the situation here?

WILLIAMS: Thank you. Let Katie go.

WATTERS: I tried the jump in the pod with all the staff watching me, and I hurt myself. And everybody laughed at me.

PAVLICH: You're admitting this

WATTERS: No, everybody mocked me. That's why, if I can't do it, I don't think it's possible.

PAVLICH: Jesse, I think you're too tall for this.

WATTERS: I have a lot of power in my legs.

GUILFOYLE: You have a very long torso. This might be the problem, with gravity throwing him off.

WATTERS: Probably the torso problem.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second, she's a gymnast.

WATTERS: She's a gymnast


WATTERS: Is she a gymnast or a cheerleader?

WILLIAMS: No, she's a gymnast.

GUILFOYLE: He can't afford any more stitches.

WATTERS: I hurt myself.

WILLIAMS: I must say, don't you think it was awesome?


PAVLICH: It was awesome. Don't try it at home.

GUILFOYLE: Megan said, we ought to do this story. I was the only one that voted, Megan? Because I feel like right after I sent that e-mail, you put it in.

PAVLICH: Kimberly won. It was good. Everyone's better for it now.

"One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: Get ready. It's time now for "One More Thing," and it's time for "Kimberly's Food Court." Oh, yes, it never gets old. Either do these cookies. Because today is National Cookie Day, and it is observed annually on December 4. Go for it, Jesse.

WATTERS: I'll take this.

GUILFOYLE: The English word "cookie" is derived from the Dutch word "koekje," meaning little cake.

Isn't that fantastic?

WILLIAMS: It almost looks like "kooky."

GUILFOYLE: Yes, that's what it looks like. So the origin of the cookie appears to be in Persia in the Seventh Century. Do you begin to think that is true? I don't know.

KILMEADE: No one had cavities.

GUILFOYLE: Soon after the use of sugar became common in the region.

Everybody loves the cookies. We've got a whole bunch of cookies here. What? Insomnia Cookies. Oh, yes. Thank you so much.

KILMEADE: I mean, I think during that time, there was too much emphasis on the success of Alexander the Great and not enough on the invention of the cookie in terms of changing civilization.

WILLIAMS: I agree. I agree.

GUILFOYLE: The chocolate just melts on your lips.

KILMEADE: Really? Maybe yours.

WILLIAMS: You know that -- you know, we're sitting around here, all us FOX people, but my favorite FOX guy, Homer Simpson, he loves doughnuts and cookies.

KILMEADE: Oh, really? I don't -- I'm not sure he is real.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you think?

GUILFOYLE: I like Krispy Kremes and donut holes.

Juan, it's time for you.

WILLIAMS: Oh, sorry.

GUILFOYLE: It's time for your "One More Thing."

WILLIAMS: Remember when we showed you the demolition of the Georgia Dome?

GUILFOYLE: That was good, right?

WILLIAMS: Well, guess what? They tried to do the same thing at the Silverdome in Detroit and look what happened.

PAVLICH: Not the brightest apples.

WILLIAMS: That's right. Nothing happened. They tried to blow it up, couldn't do it. But they tried again this afternoon and finally, they were able to get the job done. The 82,000-seat stadium, once the home to the Detroit Lions, it came crumbling down faster than one of Kimberly's lovely cookies.

WATTERS: Very good, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Indeed. All right. Jesse.

WATTERS: I like how you're on the implosion beat. I like that.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes.

WATTERS: So we can say "Merry Christmas" again now that Trump is president.


WATTERS: So Merry Christmas, everybody. And a lot of kids are going to sit on Santa's lap. One cute 2-year-old, Lyndon Bartel (ph), was at a store in Houston, Texas, and this happened.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell him what you want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want for Christmas?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to take a nap.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to take a nap right now?


KILMEADE: I want to take a nap.

WATTERS: She wants to take a nap.

KILMEADE: That is awesome.

WATTERS: She's very tired. She ended up asking for a reindeer. Not sure if Santa gave her that, but very cute moment.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Super, super super cute.

What do you got for us, sports guy?

KILMEADE: All right. Well, I know you'd rather have me in sports, but just talking about history. Sunday at 8 p.m., and I'll hopefully talk to Jesse about this tomorrow or Wednesday. "Andrew Jackson: Hero Under Fire" will air on this channel, at which time we're going to look at the similarities to Donald Trump and the controversy over his statue. That painting which is now in our hallway -- I don't know if you've seen that -- is fantastic.

And here's a little bit about the actual battle of New Orleans where he became the most famous man in America and how they had to dig a canal, build a wall, and how the British tried to get over the canal by using ladders. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attacking British had made ladders and fake scenes (ph) as they call them, bundles of sugarcane to lessen the height and then put the ladder up to scale.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a suicide mission.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was a suicide mission. That's exactly what happened. It took too much time to go down and up. So they were bound and destined to get slaughtered.


KILMEADE: So a lot of them didn't do it. So they ended up getting -- they just sat back and the British ended up being knocked out in 45 minutes. The army that beat Napoleon could not beat Andrew Jackson in America.

WILLIAMS: Did you say sugar cane?

KILMEADE: Yes. They threw sugarcane in there to kind of fill up the water. Then they were going to float the ladders, but the Irish were in charge of doing it. The Irish go, "Wait a second. I don't think I'm going to survive this. I'll stay in the back." So they stayed in the back, and the British got slammed.

GUILFOYLE: All right, there. Take it easy on the Irish.

PAVLICH: As a daughter of the American revolution, I appreciate the British being held back.

GUILFOYLE: And she really is.

PAVLICH: But keeping with the food theme here, the astronauts at the International Space Station had an individual pizza party recently after the Italian astronaut, Paolo Nespoli, had a pizza craving and the NASA space station manager, Kirk Shireman, had -- he felt bad for him, wanted to get his craving in. So he sent him up a bunch of ingredients. So this is the first official pizza party ever held in space. And it looks like they're having a really good time.

WATTERS: A slice of heaven. Right?

PAVLICH: Definitely.

KILMEADE: There's some cosmonauts there?

PAVLICH: I like that pun. It was very punny, Jesse.

WATTERS: Thank you.

KILMEADE: Is that -- is it the Russians and Americans getting along?

PAVLICH: The Russians, the Americans, the Italians.

KILMEADE: We have to go above the earth to get along.

PAVLICH: We do. They get rides up there from the Russians.

KILMEADE: That's right. Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: If we're all in "Kimberly's Food Court," we'll get along.


WATTERS: That's what Cookie wants.

WILLIAMS: I love cookies.

GUILFOYLE: Food and puppies, like dogs. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next. Bret, take it away.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Bring some of those cookies down here.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BAIER: Thanks, Kimberly.

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