Political impact of anti-Trump dossier raises questions
Former Trump campaign adviser Michael Caputo and Democratic strategist Michael Starr Hopkins weigh in on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," November 10, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" HOST: Welcome back from the wall, Bret. Thank you. Good to see you tonight. "The Story" does start now. And we have brand new details just coming in the Roy Moore case tonight as he is speaking out, fighting to hold on to his candidacy after The Washington Post reported a sex scandal involving a 14-year-old girl. Moore is getting pressure on all sides; a torrent of U.S. Senators has told him that he needs to step aside. The Republican fund-raising arm has now cut him off. But he is not backing down. Here he is a short time ago. See what you think about this with Sean Hannity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY MOORE, REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: It never happened, and I don't like hearing it because it never happened. And they're doing this a month away, four weeks away, after 40 years in public service. I've run five successful campaign or five campaigns, statewide campaigns, three in the county. This has never been brought up. They're bringing it up because it's political, it's a direct attack on this campaign, and it involves a 14-year-old which I never would've had any contact with.
This is a completely manufactured story meant to defraud this campaign. And they're losing. They're 11 points behind. They don't like my acknowledgment that there's a God and that we've refused to debate them because of their very liberal stance on transgenderism, and transgenders in military and bathrooms; they're desperate. If you abuse a 14-year-old, you shouldn't be a Senate candidate. I agree with that. But I didn't do that.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: You don't recall ever dating any girl that young when you were that old?
MOORE: I've said -- no.
HANNITY: And you think that's inappropriate, too? That's what you're saying?
MOORE: Inappropriate, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, there are calls, as I mentioned, for him to step down. And they're growing on both sides of the aisle tonight. Here now, Guy Benson, Townhall.com political editor and Fox News contributor; and political commentator, Dr. Wendy Osefo. Welcome to both of you. So, you know, there are political questions here, there are ethical questions here. But the bottom line is will he be able to stay in this race, Guy, and should he?
GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND POLITICAL EDITOR FOR TOWNHALL.COM: Well, I think the first question will come down to a few things. First of all, they're going to poll this stuff over the weekend. Does it settle down for them? They're going to keep a close eye on public opinion. Will there be more accusers coming out, continuing the drumbeat? And also, one of the things that Roy Moore said in that interview with Sean Hannity was that he never even met the woman making the most serious allegation about him involving molestation when she was 14 and he was 32. He said, I never met her. If there's additional evidence that comes out disproving that claim, I really do think he's finished.
And Martha, one other point. Listening to that interview with Sean who asked some really tough questions, he said, did you ever date anyone in their teens when you were that age? And to my ears, Roy Moore did not say no. He sort of hedged and said that would not be normal behavior for me. It was not a clear -- if I'm asked, have you ever been on a date as a 32- year-old with a high school student, the answer is definitely not, and I did not hear that.
MACCALLUM: Yes. It's a pretty answer. It is. You know, obviously, Wendy, there's a lot of Republicans that are calling for him to step aside. It's not been a great week for Steve Bannon who had a tough night on Tuesday night, and now this is the candidate that he's backed, he's standing by him tonight. In fact, he's speaking in Charleston this evening, and we're going to wait for comments from Steve Bannon. We expect to get those shortly. What do you think?
DR. WENDY OSEFO, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, in this climate where sexual allegations have run rampant like wildfire, from Harvey Weinstein to Louis C.K, it has really been disappointing the way that some members of the GOP have responded to this. It has been a slap in the face to every person who has ever been sexually harassed, and almost a knuckle sandwich to anyone who's mustered enough strength to come out and say, you know what, this is what has happened to me.
But let us be clear, if Moore wins the election in December, he will be the greatest thorn in the side of the GOP and the greatest guest to the Democrats. And for some people who are saying that this was politically motivated, there have been some rumblings that one of the accusers was actually a sign language interpreter for the Clinton campaign. Well, another one of the accusers is actually a lifelong Republican and voted for Trump in 2016. So, let's not make this political. Let us make sure that these allegations are actually factual. And if so, then Moore does need to step aside because this is not going to look good for him, it's not going to look good for his party. And with 2018 mid-terms coming up, this would not look good for a lot of people.
MACCALLUM: All right. I mean, it has become political. Obviously, there've been people who've been accused of sexual assault going all the way up to the presidency at one point as we all remember. So, I mean, this is not something that is unique to any party.
OSEFO: No.
MACCALLUM: But Steve Bannon claims, Guy, that this is, you know, sort of a big hatchet job by The Washington Post and Jeff Bezos. You know, really, it's going to come down to what the people in Alabama believe. And was pointed out, they recently ousted the governor for sexual indiscretion. So, they're -- you know, this is something that they're familiar with and they're not afraid to do.
BENSON: Well, Martha, there's only a small handful of people in the world who know the actual truth, who have the firsthand knowledge of what happened.
MACCALLUM: That's right.
BENSON: This was decades ago. The question that voters have to make for themselves is: who is credible here? Are these four women who say they did not know each other, did not seek out the press, did not seek out the limelight, are they credible? Are the people that they told contemporaneously that corroborated those conversations, are they credible or are these denials -- some of them had or some of the emphatic by Roy Moore more credible? That's what voters have to decide for themselves.
I know where I come down. I do think that these women -- I don't know if he's guilty or not, I don't know if he did these things or not. At least to me, these are credible serious allegations just like I have believed that they were serious credible allegations against Bill Clinton on the other side of the aisle. And the Democrats, if they want to get into high- dodging about Roy Moore, that's fine. They have issues on their own side, too.
MACCALLUM: Yes. But the people get to vote, and they get to listen to what he said and decide for themselves whether or not they believe him or whether they believe these women and that's where it's going to come down to. Stand by, you guys, because also tonight, this political fight that we've been watching play out of a very different kind, bruised, dirty and barely able to breathe or speak. That is how a friend says he found Senator Rand Paul moments after he was brutally attacked this week by a neighbor. Doug McKelway lays it all out for us from Bowling Green, Kentucky. This is a bizarre story, Doug.
DOUG MCKELWAY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL REPORTER: It really is a bizarre story, Martha. And over my right shoulder right now, you can see the home of Dr. Rene Boucher, the alleged attacker of Senator Rand Paul. He's not there. He's not been there all day since his arraignment yesterday. He's under a restraining order which requires him to keep a distance of 1,000 feet away from Senator Paul at all times. His attorney told me today that he's gone away because he doesn't want to unintentionally violate that restraining order.
His lawyer also told me today, these things, that this was a regrettable incident -- stemming from a long-standing dispute over property in an unkept lawn. He said that Paul was aware of the presence of Boucher at the time of the attack happened -- that's contrary to some of the reporting we've seen. He said that he freely admits that Boucher tackled a United States Senator. Here's more of what he had to tell me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT BAKER, ATTORNEY TO RENE BOUCHER: It's not how I would describe it. That's not how it has been described to me.
MCKELWAY: Were they facing each other?
BAKER: It's my understanding, yes.
MCKELWAY: And did Senator Paul strike blows with Mr. Boucher? Dr. Boucher?
BAKER: Not that I'm aware of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: A long-time neighbor of Paul who invited us into their home last night said that the Pauls, both Kelly, and Rand are great neighbors, they've lived here for anywhere from 15 to 20 years. They keep a very tidy lawn. They engage with their neighbors frequently, they're very, very friendly. They're conscientious about them, they are concerned about them. Not just neighbors but also their constituents. Here's what he had to tell me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN RENSHAW, NEIGHBOR OF SENATOR RAND PAUL: If my tulips died, I don't cut them in time or if my leaves get too thick before I can get them blown away and carry it out, I would hate to think that I would headphones for something that minute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKELWAY: And in a statement earlier this week, Paul's office derided that statement from the defense attorney, saying that these two men had not had a conversation in years. The first conversation they had was after Senator Paul's ribs had been broken. A state trooper told us today that these charges of misdemeanor, simple assault, could very well be elevated later this weekend or perhaps next week.
They could be elevated to a more serious felony charge when the medical records are delivered from the hospital where he was treated to the attorney's -- the State Attorney's Office. And there's also a very good chance of federal criminal charges being filed against Boucher. The attorney for Boucher told me that earlier this week, he met with the U.S. Capitol Police and also field agent for the local office of the FBI. Martha, back to you.
MACCALLUM: Wow! Great story. Doug McKelway, thank you very much. Back to our panel: Guy Benson and Dr. Wendy Osefo. Guy, this is a very bizarre story. And when you hear it from a neighbor who spoke to Rand Paul, who brought him into the house and called his wife who was grocery shopping and said, look, you know, I don't want you to be upset when you get here but he's in really, really bad shape. He claims that he came at him from behind. He was mowing the lawn with head phones in to, you know, protect his ears, and he got, basically, blind-sided from the back and knocked down and broken six ribs. Then, there's a question of whether or not this was politically motivated in any way, do you think that's true?
BENSON: I find it hard to believe that politics were not some sort of a factor here. Because we know that the alleged assailant is a socialist, they had argued about politics in the past. So, if it wasn't a primary factor, my guess would be an aggravating factor. And Martha, the other weird element of this story is this is a sitting, high-profile U.S. Senator who ran for president, who was violently assaulted on his property. And the media coverage has been scant at best overall. I don't understand that. That's very weird to me.
MACCALLUM: Because we're getting used to violent, crazy behavior. Wendy, what do you think?
OSEFO: I think there has been a lot of plot twists in this story. And I think that the American people really deserve to have answers. As Guy said, this is a, you know, sitting U.S. Senator who did run for office. And then, we hear the grumbling of the individuals saying that once he saw, you know, Paul on the floor, he, you know, the conversation was, you know, there was some argument over lawn issues. But then, they're saying that that was not the case. But I do think the American people deserve an answer. We need to know whether this was politically motivated because no one deserves to be beaten and bludgeoned because of their political ideologies.
BENSON: Agreed.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Steve Scalise, speaking out on that as well. And he knows in the worst possible way firsthand. Thank you very much. Good to see you both. Guy and Wendy, thank you.
BENSON: Thank you, Martha.
OSEFO: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, while donning the blue traditional jackets in Vietnam, President Trump, and Vladimir Putin, an interesting moment there, shook hands. And that moment's going to be spotlighted and analyzed for body language, and what is the significance of the way they've greeted each other. But what should the two leaders really make of each other given all the controversy?
And Donna Brazile, apparently, not done. She's still dishing more dirt on the DNC. Wait until you hear her latest.
And yet, another disturbing revelation of sexual abuse coming to light. Olympic Gold Medalist, Aly Raisman, becoming the latest brave woman to speak out about the horrific experience that she endured. Her story is ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALY RAISMAN, OLYMPIC GYMNAST: Why are we looking at why didn't the girl speak up? Why not look at what about the culture?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: President Trump and Vladimir Putin, two of the most forceful actors on the world stage, face to face with a handshake. And President Trump kind of gave him upper arm squeeze there in that handshake. So, will they talk on the sidelines in Vietnam or have the U.S. investigations made that impossible, more challenging? Chief White House Correspondent, John Roberts, is with the president live in Vietnam tonight with the story. Hey, John.
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good evening to you, Martha. And I just exchanged e-mails with Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She said, still no plans for there to be an official meeting between the President and President Putin during the APEC conference here in Da Nang today. Probably strange, because on his way over to this region from Hawaii on his way to Japan, the president said he was likely going to meet with Putin, was looking forward to enlisting his support on North Korea.
Also, wanted to talk to him about the way forward in Syria now that Raqqa has fallen. But the other day, and forgive me if I can't remember exactly what day it was, in Beijing, the Secretary of State Rex Tillerson came out and said they only will have a meeting with Putin if there's enough that they've agreed on that they can talk about. And apparently at that point, and still, they haven't agreed that there's enough for them to talk about, which leaves the Russians feeling a little puzzled about this whole thing. Listen to what the Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA (through translator): Ask the Americans, because we don't comment on this. We say that we heard the willingness of President Trump to meet President Putin, expressed by President Trump himself. I don't know what his other functionaries say. I'm not responsible for that. So, ask the American side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Meantime, the president opened his appearance here at APEC with some very tough talk on trade, warning the other 20 APEC nations that the U.S. will not tolerate any more cheating on trade. The president also reiterated a theme that he explored Wednesday. Yes, I remember, it was Wednesday in Seoul with that big speech, the national assembly, where he urged nations of the Indo-Pacific region not to let North Korea destroy everything that they have worked so hard to build. Listen to the president yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every single step the North Korean regime takes towards more weapons is a step it takes into greater and greater danger. The future of this region and its beautiful people must not be held hostage to a dictator's twisted fantasies of violent conquests and nuclear blackmail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: The president is also keeping an eye on the situation with Roy Moore and the allegations that have been level against him. We haven't heard from the president himself on it, but Sarah Sanders on the way between Beijing and Da Nang yesterday said that the president does not believe that the allegations should ruin a person's life, destroy a person's -- is actually the word she used. But that the president believes if the allegations are indeed true, then Roy Moore should do the right thing and step down. Martha?
MACCALLUM: John Roberts, thank you very much in Da Nang, Vietnam. So, in today's Wall Journal, Kimberly Strassel says that the heart of the Russia probe, the Steele dossier, maybe the stuff of spy novels and hidden banks about, but she claims that it is "one of the dirtiest political tricks of all time, perpetrated by Team Clinton and yielding a vast pay-off," she writes about Hillary's campaign.
She says, "The idea that the federal government and a special counsel were mobilized that American citizens were monitored and continue to be investigated based on a campaign-funded -- on campaign-funded hit document is extraordinary. Especially given to this day no one has publicly produced a single piece of evidence to support any of the dossier's substantive allegations about Trump team members."
So, she is sort of knocking the legs out from underneath this thing. And that's the backdrop, or I should say the backdrop is the meeting or non-meeting between President Trump and Vladimir Putin this week. Joining me now: Michael Caputo, former Trump Campaign Senior Advisor; and Michael Starr Hopkins, Democratic Strategist who served on both the Obama and Hillary Clinton Campaigns.
Gentlemen, welcome. So, you know, my first question for you, Michael, is when you look at the dynamic of these two men together, and you've got this enormous backdrop here in the United States of this investigation. I mean, how can they even begin to have a discussion, have a dialogue? It's very difficult in this environment.
MICHAEL STARR HOPKINS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST FOR BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA CAMPAIGN: Yes, absolutely --
MICHAEL CAPUTO, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: That's true --
HOPKINS: I don't know which Michael.
MACCALLUM: Oh, Michael, Michael. Sorry, Caputo first.
CAPUTO: All right, great. Nice to meet you, Michael. I think that both sides are pretty skittish about meeting right now.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
CAPUTO: I mean, while President Trump initially was saying positive things and had hopes for better relations with Russia, as we all should hope, just as the Clintons did when they came in office, just as Bush did, just as Obama did. The Russians, I think, were hopeful that there could be close relations. Things have gotten chilly at the end of the Obama administration. But, of course, the Russian investigation comes forward.
And the Russians, I think it's -- you know, it's the third rail, I think. I know that the Trump team is frustrated by the fact that they're hobbled by public perception on the Russian relationship. You know, the people I know from Russia, and I know a few are very confused by all of this. I think that also was borne out in the foreign minister's comments today.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And we watch Hillary Clinton try to restart the relationship. We listened to President Obama say that you know, there was no reason to think of them as the number one enemy, the global enemy. And now, that has completely changed in the course of this whole story that we follow so closely. But Michael Starr Hopkins, Kim Strassel basically, says, look, it's all about nothing, it's all based on a dossier that is not legitimate. And that that's a pretty fancy-calculated trick that was pulled off by the Clinton campaign.
HOPKINS: Well, we don't know whether the dossier is true or not. Some components of it actually turned out to be true. In the dossier, they talk about Paul Manafort having real estate dealings and laundering money that's turned out to be true. Papadopoulos being on the National Security Council, also having ties to the Kremlin, that's turned out to be true. So, I think that this is part of the investigation and we should let the facts bore out. But I think what is true is that, so far, we've seen campaign members be indicted, members of the oval office now under investigation and the optics for the president are really tough, especially going into now, what's going to be the 2018 election.
MACCALLUM: Well, the underlying issue, Michael Caputo, about whether or not there was a deal to lift sanctions. I mean, that's what this really all comes down to, and that is what we haven't seen any evidence of yet. But there's a lot of revelations today about Michael Flynn suggesting that he entered into some agreement with the Turkish government to bring back someone that they wanted extradited from the United States. And they accused him -- and this is all leaked. That's what I find very interesting about this. So, in the middle of the investigation, and these stories are getting leaked left and right to newspapers. I mean, what do you make of that? And then I want to show Michael Flynn's response.
CAPUTO: Well, I think first and foremost, that these leaks are all illegal; they're crimes. And I can't believe that Mueller himself is for this. He's famous for being very anti-leak. But, of course, we'll never get to the bottom of these things. But at the same time, if, you know, General Flynn was being paid to follow policy goals brought up to him by the Turkish government, well, that would be illegal, and it should be looked into certainly, and I think it obviously has been.
But so far, what we're looking at with General Flynn are just apparently the lack of proper filing procedures and proper reporting procedures. And a lot of these crimes or alleged crimes are not really quite as big as people would like to think. We haven't seen any indictments on the general or his son yet. I think -- it looks like the (INAUDIBLE) to the both of them is coming to a close, and if something's going to come out about the Flynns, it'll come out soon.
MACCALLUM: It'll come out.
HOPKINS: That's what sealed indictments are for. And if any leaks have come out, I would say to grand jury, it's not illegal for witnesses in the grand jury to leak that information.
MACCALLUM: Well, it would be great if the process could -- the investigation could take place and then we could find out what they have discovered and what their case is. And I don't have time to put it up on the screen, but I will say Michael Flynn fought back. And he said, you know, he put out a statement through his attorney saying that he never speaks out about this because he wants the process to play forward. But these suggestions of kidnapping and nefarious things mentioned that were in this article are completely false. So, we will see where it goes. Michael Caputo, Michael Hopkins, thank you very much, you guys. Good to see you, as always.
HOPKINS: Thanks.
CAPUTO: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, Donna Brazile is out to set the record straight. She's been pretty much at it all week about the tactics of what she called the Clinton cult, and she'd like to reshape the party that she loves in a post- Clinton image. She's taking no prisoners and the grenades keep coming, Chief Washington Correspondent, James Rosen, on that.
Plus, Bowe Bergdahl pleaded guilty to desertion. He received a dishonorable discharge and U.S. soldiers searched and died for him. But he may still get hundreds of thousands of dollars in back pay, that may just be too much to bear for those who laid everything on the line for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having him get snuffed out because of Bergdahl's ridiculous excuse to walk off that post. It just makes it that much harder to accept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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MACCALLUM: So, last night we showed you former DNC Chair Donna Brazile talking about threats that she has received since revealing what went on behind the scenes at the DNC during the 2016 campaign. Now, Brazile is taking it a step further in two new interviews taking on critics and praising President Trump. Fox News Chief Washington Correspondent, James Rosen, joins us with the backstory tonight. Hey, James.
JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening. In an interview today with Business Insider, Donna Brazile expressed regret for telling her ex-friends in the Democratic Party to go to hell on George Stephanopoulos' show last weekend, but she also did offer words of praise, as you say for an unlikely figure.
Now, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 days, you already know that in her memoir hacks, Brazile claims the Democratic National Committee secretly rigged last year primary process to favor Hillary Clinton in exchange for Clinton's help in retiring the party's $15 million bank debt. That along with other untoward recollections in Brazile's book prompted an open letter from nearly 100 former Clinton campaign staffers, including Mrs. Clinton personal aide, Huma Abedin, communication director, Jane Palmieri, campaign manager, Robby Mook, and campaign chairman, John Podesta.
All of whom called Brazile's account troubling and puzzling. It really did cause me to pause and say are these really my friends or are they just imposters, Brazile responds to business insider. Adding, how many of those people who signed that letter got paid last year? I didn't. How many of those people had to get cameras installed in their home? How many of those people had to go home at night driving a different route because somebody was following? I did.
In an appearance before an audience of nearly 300 people in San Francisco's commonwealth club last night, Brazile said my Democratic friends are mad at me. So what? No gumbo for them. Nor will Brazile's gumbo-less friends likely be pleased that her praise for the man who defeated Hillary Clinton. Let's give Donald Trump some credit, Brazile's told the audience. I know you're all going to boo me. He cracked a blue wall. He saw everyday what we saw. He saw Hillary's campaign flying over Michigan and Wisconsin. Last week, Brazile, a long time CNN commentator, explained why she agreed to come on Fox News to promote her book, which she did in an appearance on Tucker Carlson Tonight, two nights ago.
I was part of CNN for well over 14 years of my life, Brazile told business insider. I'm excited to go and see what it's like to be in a Fox studio. I wonder if they're going to put, you know, some special lipstick on. Now, obviously, Martha, you would be in a better position than me to confirm whether Fox News possesses and applies some kind of special lipstick. Suffice to say if you don't cough up this prized information what we all want and need to know.
(LAUGHTER)
ROSEN: Hashtag.
MACCALLUM: You know that special lipstick, James.
ROSEN: No gumbo for you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, James. So here with more, Kayleigh McEnany, RNC spokesperson, and back again, Michael Starr Hopkins, who worked with the Clinton campaign, who has not reserve any niceties for Donna Brazile. You say it is sad to see her act like a hack just to sell a book, Michael.
HOPKINS: It's true. Listen, Donna Brazile for 20 or 30 years has fought for the rights of women and African-Americans, and in the span of ten days has completely nuked that to sell a book. And it reeks of a desperate attempt. I don't really understand it. I have my own issues with the Clinton campaign and kind of how it was run, the insider network that it was run on off. But this isn't the way to do it. And it's not helpful. It's not, you know -- it's not true. She said it was rigged. Then she said I didn't mean it like that. She said I gave the questions to both sides, and then I'm not sure how I did it. It's just disingenuous and it's not helpful.
MACCALLUM: Kayleigh?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, RNC SPOKESPERSON: Well, Michael and other Democrats they're disparaging and diminishing and discrediting Donna Brazile. But instead of doing all of that, they really need to look at the heart of her revelations. The fact that Hillary did ran this campaign from Brooklyn. Bernie's campaign, Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager have been making these accusations for a long time, and for Donna Brazile to come out and corroborate them, this is a very big moment for Democrats. And instead of disparaging her, you just take her seriously. This is someone who is widely respected among Republicans and Democrats alike. You've heard that repeated over the last few days. Everyone loves Donna Brazile. She's someone who is respected. She's a Clintonite. And for her to make these allegations it's a very big deal.
HOPKINS: I just said though.
MACCALLUM: You know what I find very interesting, you know, obviously, there's a lot of outrage from Democrats, and particularly from people who worked on the campaign. And you just saw the pictures of them in James' piece. But I know there is a lot in this book about Russia and about hacking. But what I find fascinating is that it doesn't seem like that's what she's talking about. She's not saying that they lost because of Russia hacking. She's saying we lost because we didn't understand what was going on out there. And I wonder, Michael, if that's what got -- what has people so riled up. She's not following the narrative of why they lost.
HOPKINS: So I've been writing on the Clinton campaign since I left. And I think it's a combination of the two. And I think a lot of Democrats have admitted that Russia could have played a factor in the election, and the poor messaging of the campaign, and ignoring some of the blue collar lunch- pail states is what brought us down. And I don't think that's something that we're denying, but I think that it's something we have to work on. And we saw on Tuesday, the Democrats have gotten better at that messaging, and we've gotten better reaching out. And, you know, onward and forward.
MACCALLUM: Kayleigh?
MCENANY: But Michael you are denying it because, look, when the RNC -- when we lost in 2012 with Mitt Romney, we did an autopsy. We took a self- reflective look and said here's where we went wrong. The DNC has done not of that. Instead, the Democratic Party has its fake Russia collusion conspiracy theory that they're pointing to as a reason they lost the election, instead of citing the fact that Hillary never went to Michigan, she was part of the establishment elite, she used the DNC for narcissistic self-promotion rather that caring about Democratic voter. Instead of taking an inward look, you're just pointing -- making the blame game and pointing at Russia.
HOPKINS: But that's not true. I mean, first of all, the federal court system doesn't seem to think Russia is just this little thing. There's indictments already, and there's going to be further ones coming down. You and I both know that.
MCENANY: But the collusion never happened.
MACCALLUM: I've got to leave it there. Kayleigh, thank you very much. Michael, thanks for double duty tonight. Good to see you, guys. So still to come this evening, several bombshell news, sexual abuse allegations hitting Hollywood and beyond, including Olympic gold medalist Aly Raisman, who joins her teammate McKayla Maroney, accusing the former U.S. team doctor who was with that team for 29 years of being abusive to these young women. Plus, he admitted to deserting his platoon, he was dishonorably discharged from the army, so why would Bowe Bergdahl be compensated nearly $300,000? A former serviceman whose dog was killed searching for Bergdahl and one of his buddies was badly injured is not mincing words.
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UNINDENTIFIED MALE: That night take place only because -- it's only because we had a selfish American that walked off a base. It just makes it harder to swallow.
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UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I remember seeing Remco, again, within a couple of feet of our location, and then he got shot in the head and came flying back out. I mean, literally flying out -- had to accept that he was mortally wounded at that time, you know. I think it was just denial for him to sit there and be perfectly still and look at me, just looking at me with those eyes -- yeah. It's like he was saying bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was retired senior chief petty officer Mike Toussaint. His military service dog, Remco, was killed during a failed raid in 2009 to rescue Bowe Bergdahl. And tonight, there is some other shocking news in the Bergdahl case that would certainly upset him and the many others who risked their lives to bring Bowe Bergdahl home safely. The army is considering the request that he be compensated $300,000 in back pay for the time that he spent in captivity. Just last week, Bergdahl pled guilty to deserting his agency, his group, and he was dishonorably discharged from the army. He was given no time behind bars, which outraged many in the military who we spoke to here. But now, Ben Collins joins me, former Special Forces officer who served three tours in Afghanistan. Ben, good to have you with us tonight. So how does a convicted deserter who got a dishonorable discharge qualify to be paid by the U.S. military?
BEN COLLINS, FORMER SPECIAL FORCES OFFICER: Well, I think the key thing here is the fact that he did just plead guilty to desertion. So normally, if a soldier is captured and they're officially a prisoner of war, and while they're prisoner of war, they still accumulate rank, so they're still making rank during the normal time block, and all the years that they're away, all that pay that is accumulated they get back. The difference here is Bergdahl is not a prisoner of war. He was not a prisoner of war. He's now an admitted deserter. So he made the decision to walk off that base. He walked into the hands of the enemy. He was not a prisoner of war, and he shouldn't get that money back in my opinion.
MACCALLUM: I mean there are concerns that he might get it. The decision hasn't been made yet. But we know that the judge felt that they were mitigating circumstances in this case, and he gave him no time behind bars regardless of all the things that we just talked about. So do you think there's a chance that the argument might be made and might be successful?
COLLINS: Well, look, I didn't believe -- I couldn't believe that he got off with no jail time. So certainly, I could see, you know, the bureaucratic process figuring out some way to get him his money back. And if that's the case, you know, look, I hope every one of those families of the six soldiers that died and the wounded, I hope they take him to civil court and they get every penny of that. And every penny that that guy stands to make for the rest of his life for that matter.
MACCALLUM: You know, you look at the things that Bowe Bergdahl said in the court process. He said I understand that leaving was against the law. He uses the word, leaving. He knows that he left of his own volition, and everybody that we've spoken to who was part of that group knew that he left. And you listen to Mike Toussaint, he said I know -- we all knew that but we went to find him because that's what we do. We're not just going to leave him out there even if he walked off on his own. I mean -- go ahead.
COLLINS: And Toussaint looked -- that service dog, Remco showed more honor and courage than Bergdahl did. And this drives at the heart of something for the military personnel. You know, we use words like, you know, the brotherhood, and warrior ethos, and all of that for a very good reason. And I know that sounds archaic in today's society. But at the end of the day, you're talking about young men and young women that find themselves in the most unimaginable events. When their friends are dying and they are told to stand up and move forward in combat. And I'm going to tell you, where that courage comes from is love. And it's love for the men and women on the right side and the faith that they're going to stand up and move forward to. And that's what Bergdahl betrayed. So it's that feeling of betrayal and that base point that soldiers and marines and air men that they feel together, that's what he betrayed. So there's the legal part in this, but I can tell you that the thing that hurts us the most is that love of his fellow soldier that he just got up and left in the middle of the night.
MACCALLUM: I hear you. Ben, thank you very much for being here tonight. We'll see what happens with this case. Ben Collins. Have a good weekend. So after the break, Olympic gold medalist Aly Raisman sharing her story of sexual abuse by a former team trainer and doctor. She's just one of many women who have been coming forward this week. Mollie Hemingway and Jessica Tarlov on why we may be at a turning point in our culture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALY RAISMAN, OLYMPIC GYMNAST: What did USA gymnastics do and Larry Nassar do to manipulate these girls so much that they are so afraid to speak up?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: You're angry.
RAISMAN: I am angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So three-time Olympic gold medalist, gymnast Aly Raisman becomes the second of the fierce five who we watched and loved throughout that amazing Olympics. She came forward -- she said that she too was sexually abused by the former team doctor, Larry Nassar. More than 125 women have accused him of inappropriate conduct. In a new interview with "60 Minutes," she slammed the culture that allowed that to continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAISMAN: Why are we looking at -- why didn't the girls speaks up? Why not look at what about the culture? What did USA gymnastics do and Larry Nassar do to manipulate these girls so much that they're so afraid to speak up?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: You're angry.
RAISMAN: I am angry. I'm really upset because it's been -- I care a lot. You know, when I see these young girls that come up to me and they ask for pictures, or autographs, or whatever it is. I just -- I can't-- every time I look at them, every time I see them smiling, I just think -- I just want to create change so that they never ever have to go through this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Wow. Good for her. Here now Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist, and Jessica Tarlov, senior director of research at bustle.com and a Fox News contributor. I feel like we are talking about this pretty much every week, ladies. We get together and talk about the latest revelations. And this young woman who is such a role model for so many young women is doing the right thing, Mollie. She's speaking out, but will it make a difference?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, THE FEDERALIST: Well, it just does seem like the last month or so we've had this unending onslaught of stories about sexual indiscretion, sexual abuse, sexual harassment. And, yes, she's joining her teammate, McKayla Maroney and allegations about this doctor, who is, I guess, in jail but for something separate. You know, it's just horrifying.
JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: For child porn.
MACCALLUM: Yeah, for viewing child porn.
HEMINGWAY: Yeah. But I don't think he's been accused -- I don't think he's been charged with any of these crimes against the girls.
MACCALLUM: No, he hasn't.
TARLOV: Not yet.
HEMINGWAY: And yet, it's just one of many stories. I mean, today alone, we have stories about Roy Moore, Louis C.K., Jeremy Piven, Brett Ratner, and Anthony Edwards, and the list just keeps going on and on. We have a problem across cultural, political, and career boundaries of how we're taking care of women and children. And it's absolutely important and incumbent upon everybody to see what they can do to protect women and children from predatory behavior.
MACCALLUM: It's unreal. I mean, I'm looking at this thing. I've got a four-page, five-page thing. This is a Weinstein victim tracker. It goes on for pages and pages. It's divides into categories of rape, expose, unwanted sexual advances. I mean, it's unbelievable. You know, Jessica, where do we go from here? I mean, it's so wonderful that so many people are talking out, or speaking out, I should say. But does it -- do you think that people are waking up to this? Do you think it won't be like this for our daughters?
TARLOV: I hope not. I don't have a daughter yet. I know that you do.
MACCALLUM: I do.
TARLOV: I'm sure it's something that you think about all the time. I do think that at this moment a lot of men are very scared.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely they are.
(CROSSTALK)
TARLOV: In my day-to-day life, and I work with wonderful men across the board, but I have noticed that I have conversations with them, and my boss even said -- he came up and he said we talk about it all the time. Is something going to come out of the wood work from 15 years ago from some drunken night, and was I inappropriate, and how can I be better to you, and how it can facilitate a better culture.
MACCALLUM: That's part of the conversation that I think is in sort of the next stage of this, Mollie. And that is that you also don't want to live in a witch hunt world. And we are dangerously treading in that category with some of these situations. They do need to be adjudicated piece by piece, right, Mollie?
HEMINGWAY: Yes. But first off, I'd also like to say there are a lot of men who aren't living in fear. And they aren't living in fear because they are good men.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely.
HEMINGWAY: . and have very good jobs.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Don't you think, Mollie, that there are a bunch of guys out there who are thinking, wait, what morning do I wake up and see myself in the paper? They certainly are.
HEMINGWAY: I think its important point though. And I think these stories are just as difficult for some men and some women to hear in part -- and it's heart breaking to hear these stories. And I'm so thankful that in my life I've had a wonderful father, a wonderful brother, a wonderful husband, great male colleagues and friends. And those people have no reason to be afraid because they have treated women honor and respect. Now, as to the issue of whether there's a witch hunt going on, I do think that's true. And I think we have to have some pretty careful understanding of what is inappropriate behavior, what's not, what's borderline. Seems there's a frenzy here. But, you know, a lot of these stories they're not borderline. They're way over the line and just unacceptable behavior for decent men.
TARLOV: Can I just add on to that point you're saying, Mollie, which I think is really important. Actually, when I tweeted that I was going to appear on the show I said it was a banner day for American men today with Louis C.K. and Roy Moore. And a lot of people came at me on twitter. Now, a lot of people come on me at non-twitter anyway because I'm liberal and they don't like what I have to say. But I do think it is incumbent upon men, generally, to be speaking out about this and to facilitating the conversation about protecting women and making the environments safer for them.
MACCALLUM: Thank you. Thank you both. We'll be right back with a veteran's message after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Tomorrow is Veteran's Day, of course, a day to honor the brave men and women in uniform who fight to keep us safe night after night. Veterans like Sargent Dan Rose, who was paralyzed from the chest down by a road side bomb while serving in Afghanistan. Miraculously, Dan is now able to walk again thanks to a soldier suit exoskeleton. It is an amazing technology made possible for him by the organization Soldier Strong. I'm on the advisory board of this amazing group, which recently made another surprise possible for Sergeant Rose. A reunion with his three crew mates who he had not seen in five years. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: What's up, sarge?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: He was really happy to see them. Thank you, Sergeant Rose, for your service and the thousands of others on this Veteran's Day. For more information go to SoldierStrong.org. Have a great weekend, everybody. That's our story for tonight. Tucker is up next.
END
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