Transcript

Krauthammer: Trump faces a 'cover-up without a crime'

Syndicated columnist weighs in on Comey controversy on 'The Story with Martha MacCallum'

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," June 9, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" HOST: Breaking tonight, the Trump camp clearly saw the Comey hearing as a win, today the president came out ready to do battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No collusion, no obstruction, he's a leaker, but we want to get back to running our great country, jobs, trade deficits, we want them to disappear fast. North Korea, big problem. Middle East, a big problem. So that's what I am focused on, that's what I have been focused on.

MACCALLUM: Good evening everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and here is The Story. President Trump calling for the press conference late last night, eager to get his side out on the Comey testimony. Things got heated very quickly. We're going to have a big lineup for you on all of this tonight. Charles Krauthammer is here with us tonight, Professor John Banzhaf and former justice department lawyer J. Christian Adams weigh in expert insight in terms of what the president is up against here as the Trump legal team is now ready to file a former complaint against James Comey for leaking his own memos to the press. But first, we begin with chief national correspondent Ed Henry, joining us from the White House lawn with the fiery response that we got earlier today from the president. Ed?

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Martha. I mean, this was an extraordinary news conference wherein just a matter of moments, the president accused his former FBI Director James Comey of lying under oath to Congress, the president himself offered in another extraordinary move to testify under oath to Robert Mueller, the special counsel. Oh, and by the way, the president left the door open to the possibility that there might be tapes of some of these calls or meetings. We'll get to that in a moment.

The president firing back of course at Comey who had charged that the president is a liar and that's why Comey says he had to document their meetings and their phone calls to the contrary. The president believes that Comey's testimony actually backs him up and shows that the president was told on numerous occasions he was not under investigation and there was no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

The president pushing back this morning first in a tweet saying, "Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication and wow, Comey is a leaker." That a reference to the fact that Comey himself admitted he leaked information to The New York Times through a third-party. The president's legal team tonight has a new statement out basically saying they have more evidence of Comey leaking other information about his meetings with the president, they want the justice department to investigate that and at his news conference, the president piled on Comey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That was an excuse by the Democrats who lost an election that some people think they shouldn't have lost. We were very, very happy and frankly, James Comey confirmed a lot of what I said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now the president also insisted under questioning from the press corps that he never urged Comey to let it go in terms of the Michael Flynn investigation and also he also went on to insist that he never demanded a loyalty oath from the FBI director, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hardly know the man, I'm not going to say I want you to pledge allegiance. Who would do that? Who would ask a man to pledge allegiance under oath? I think, think of it. I hardly know the man. It doesn't make sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now, on the issue of whether or not there are tapes of any of these meetings with James Comey or I think the other calls or meetings the president has here every day at the White House, he would not answer directly, sort of left the door open and dangled it before the press corps saying, "I'll have an answer on that very shortly." Although later on he came back and said, "You're going to be very disappointed when I reveal the truth," suggesting there are probably not tapes, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Fascinating. Ed, thank you so much.

HENRY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Here come on Charles Krauthammer, syndicated columnist, and Fox News contributor. Charles, good evening. Good to see you. You know, it -- he came out swinging at this news conference this afternoon and basically contradicted a large portion of what James Comey said under oath yesterday.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that's who Trump is, he's a counter puncher. I think he got kind of beaten up yesterday by some of the Comey testimony. But I think on the big picture, he's right. If this investigation which began about Russian collusion or Russian interference is really about collusion with the Trump administration, Trump campaign. If it's about did Trump himself collude with the Russians, this is sort of the question, Trump 2016, he was exonerated.

There's not a shred of evidence, it could be developed it could be shown later. But as of today and as of months and months now, investigation begun in July of last year. We see no evidence of that. And the irony is this whole debacle accord because the head of the FBI tells the president three times in private, you are not the target of the investigation. You are essentially clean. But won't say it in public. And that was the origin of the cloud that Trump was referring to.

It came out in the testimony yesterday of Comey. I think under questioning from Senator Feinstein that the cloud was the general picture but the specific issue was why couldn't you tell the country and yet in the absence of that, you had all of these stories, all the media full of Trump and collusion.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

KRAUTHAMMER: So on the collusion issue, on something happened in 2016, he's clean. The problem is this is a cover-up without a crime. It's the stuff that happened this year. These interviews that he had with the head of the FBI, what he might or might not have said have said about Flynn.
That now ironically, I think it's going to end up being the subject of an investigation by Robert Mueller.

MACCALLUM: So, do you think that the investigation is, you know, Robert Mueller's investigation supposedly is going to wrap up in three months. What do you read into that? Because there was a suggestion that, you know, the obstruction of justice thing is not over, that, you know, James Comey said I know what I know from my tenure. But now it's in someone else's front pocket.

KRAUTHAMMER: I find it hard to believe, it's going to be wrapped up in three months.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

KRAUTHAMMER: That would be a miracle, that would be akin to the Lord creating the world in six days. He did take six days and not one day. That's - I don't think ever - but let's assumed that happened. What that means is everything up until recently, Mueller would be agreeing with Comey president himself is clean. There might have been some cold satellites on cloud or who are not clean.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Which is what it was always about from the beginning largely. You know --

KRAUTHAMMER: It is. And that wouldn't affect - yes, that wouldn't affect the presidency in a deep way. There could have been one or two people who I know were aligned but unless you can show a direction from the candidate, unless you can show collusion, it means nothing. So on that, I think he's clean. That's what we've heard it from Comey himself. The question is will Mueller pursue this, you know, layoff of Flynn something - I mean, that is kind of peripheral, very narrow, even Comey says that's only about the lying about speaking with the Russian ambassador. It's not about the Russia probe in general, so if it's going to be in three months, I think he comes out OK.

MACCALLUM: Do you think -

KRAUTHAMMER: You know, but that's a big if.

MACCALLUM: Do you think, you know, and we're reading into what we've all watched yesterday a bit. But, you know, I'm wondering what you think about whether or not James Comey revealed, you know, sort of his own animus towards the president yesterday, whether or not he revealed his political inclination to want to prompt a special prosecutor in this case. I mean, you know, do you feel like he hurt himself at all in terms of his reputation for being, you know, Mr. Integrity and Mr. Even handed with anything that saw yesterday?

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, I hate to put it this way but he showed a Trump being inside of himself. If to be Trump being is to fight back, never to take it. As Trump says, I hit back to 10 times as hard as I am hit, this is what Comey did. Basically, he was angry about the way he was gotten rid of, the brutal way it was done, it was also very politically stupid way to do it. There would have been other ways to do it where you give him a gold watch, you have a press conference, you praise him, you give him some kind of award and you sent him on his way.

I think he's very upset about that, he felt like he had to protect himself and the reputation. And he came out swinging. But it's not -- he is not the choir boy he makes himself out to be. He is not the secular saint to Democrats to make him out to be. In an act of supreme hypocrisy since a few months ago, they were saying he was the villain who swung the election to Donald Trump. But I think these are human emotions. You get whacked, you want to whack back, that's what we saw.

MACCALLUM: The Trump being inside of James Comey. Charles Krauthammer, thank you very much. Good to see you.

KRAUTHAMMER: My pleasure.

MACCALLUM: So, tonight, even more anonymous sources, this time fueling reports that team Trump plans to file a legal complaint against James Comey but was Trump's attorney just foreshadowing all of this yesterday, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC KASOWITZ, PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP PERSONAL ATTORNEY: we will leave it to the appropriate authorities to determine whether these leaks should be investigated along with all the others that are being investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, what do you make of that? Joining me now on whether Trump's team have any sort of case against James Comey, John Banzhaf is a public interest law professor at George Washington University Law School, and J. Christian Adams, founder of the Election Law Center and a former DOJ attorney. Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you both here. John Banzhaf, let me start - let me start with you. Do you believe the Trump legal team has a case against James Comey for what really stunned everyone yesterday was his admission that he decided when he woke up in the middle of the night one night that he was going to pass his FBI created journal of what was transpiring in his work as the director over to the press himself?

JOHN BANZHAF, PUBLIC INTEREST LAW PROFESSOR AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: The problem is that -- he's no longer an employee of the federal government, even if he may and probably did violate nondisclosure agreements, protocols, customs and so on at the justice department, there's not very much they can do to him. They can't fire him, all they can do is put him on a blacklist and not hire him again as an investigator.

There is a statute, federal statute which reports to criminalize stealing or purloining government records. The problems here are going to be the same thing I ran across many years ago in the Debategate controversy, number one, is this -- are these documents government records, bit more importantly, you simply make a copy of a record and give it to somebody, does that really count as stealing, purloining or converting? I want on my case I'm not sure he's going to win here.

MACCALLUM: Hmm. J. Christian Adams, what do you think?

J. CHRISTIAN ADAMS, FOUNDER OF THE ELECTION LAW CENTER: There's a lot more they can do. Even if he is not a government employee, the office of professional responsibility at the DOJ and the inspector general routinely make recommendations and file complaints with the state bar agencies. So, James Comey is a member of at least one bar association, perhaps more. And if the office of professional responsibility issues a report, they can send it to the state bar and say that he violated ethical rules.

This is not complicated stuff. And frankly, the Trump team could make complaint to Mr. Comey's bar associations, wherever he's a member of a bar that he violated ethical obligations. So, you don't have to wait for the political bureaucrats at the office of professional resistibility to do that.

MACCALLUM: But what I'm hearing is that because was no longer and employee when he did it, there is a limit to what could be brought against him here. So, J. Christian Adams, you're saying that the very worst that could happen in your mind to him would be a punishment by disbarring him, correct?

ADAMS: Yes. Well, tell a lawyer that's not a big deal, you'll find out it is a big deal.

MACCALLUM: No. It's a big deal, it's a big deal. But it's nothing criminal and there is no civil case against him, it sounds like you both agreed to that.

BANZHAF: And by the way, it's quite likely that Comey could make a very good living for the rest of his life without ever practicing law again. So, it may not be a big deal, I filed half a dozen ethical complaints against lawyers with the bar associations and often they don't come true.

MACCALLUM: All right. I want to put up one other thing, this came from a piece that Gregg Jarrett wrote and this is the Federal Records Act with regard to this and get you to weigh on this. It says, "Under the Federal Records Act and the FBI's own record management regulations, any document that is made in the course of business is the property not of the person who authored it but the property of the U.S. government." So, even though he was not working for the FBI anymore, he was when he wrote those documents and did he have a right to pass them along to his friend who then gave them to the press? Quick answer. Let me start with you, John, first.

BANZHAF: I think that he didn't have a right to do it, what he did was wrong, it probably violated his nondisclosure agreements. But whether or not it's criminal, it's very doubtful because you have to statute up on the screen, you see it says things like steal, purloined, convert. If I simply make a copy of a document and a share it with somebody, I haven't stolen it. That's what happened in Debategate. A copy of a document went over to the other side, the original remained where it was and the argument was made, there was no theft. I was able to convince the judge otherwise, but it's nice to hear. Make a great exam question for us law school professors.

MACCALLUM: All right. We're going to pass it because we all (INAUDIBLE) John Banzhaf, thank you very much. J. Christian Adams, good to see you today. Thank you. So James Comey says that Loretta Lynch, Bill Clinton's tarmac meeting was the catalyst for him to essentially go off on his own and handle the Clinton email investigation. Chris Stirewalt coming up on that. And Howie Kurtz is here on the media's praise of the fired FBI director despite the fact that he admitted that he leaked his memos to the press.

And anger and outrage as New York City honors in some ways a terrorist in one of our city's biggest events that's going to happen this weekend. How could that be? A man who lost his father and one of these bombings will be with us next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The enemies of our country are being rewarded and being treated as if they're heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:21] MACCALLUM: So to understand Mr. James Comey in part is to look at how he dealt with the Clinton investigation and why he took the whole thing eventually upon himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Yes, sir. I can -- after the President Clinton -- former President Clinton met on the plane with the attorney general, I considered whether I should call for the appointment of a special counsel and decided that that would be an unfair thing to do because I knew there was no case there. We had investigated very, very thoroughly. I know this is a subject of passionate disagreement but I knew there was no case there and calling for the appointment of a special counsel would be brutally unfair because it would send the message, aha, there's something here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Did you get that? All right. So, how about this? This is why he wanted to force the issue of making sure there would be a special counsel in the Trump case, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN COLLINS, R-MAINE: Did you show copies of your memos to anyone outside of the department of justice?

COMEY: I asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with the reporter. I didn't do it myself for it variety of reasons, I asked him to because I thought that might prompt the appointment of a special counsel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Well, Senator Collins who asked that question was pretty bowled over by the answer. So why try to protect the Clinton case from an outside prosecutor and handle it yourself even after the suspicious meeting on the tarmac between the Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton while Lynch was still leading that investigation at the time and then try to engineer the assurance of a special prosecutor which would no doubt mire the Trump presidency in a likely unending investigation. Who better to ask this question to then, Chris Stirewalt. Our Fox News Politics Editor.

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS POLITICS EDITOR: Here in person.


MACCALLUM: Good to see you.


STIREWALT: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: I was in Washington yesterday.

(CROSSTALK)

STIREWALT: It's super cold. This is great.

MACCALLUM: Good to be - good to see you.

(CROSSTALK)

STIREWALT: We have to assume that Comey believes that there is something there with Trump that he -- we have to take him at his word that he believes that there is something that merits further investigation even at the risk of the prejudicial appearance of having a special counsel. Also, Trump fired Comey. Had Trump not fired Comey, he wouldn't have a special counsel. That was - he did that. Comey is a very skilled at the stagecraft of Washington, he is very good at politics.

He may be a heck of a lawyer but he is certainly darn good at playing politics. And what he did here was Donald Trump try to hurt James Comey, tried to fire him in the most insulting way possible, try to belittle him, didn't let him say goodbye to the people at the FBI. Did it in a cruel way. And Comey --

MACCALLUM: Which was a mistake.

STIREWALT: Which was a terrible mistake and it helped get him the special counsel.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

STIREWALT: And, you know, look, in the end, every American should be happy about the way that this has landed. Robert Mueller's team is said to be only a few months away from completion, the special counsel on this case is just a few -- not years, not a decade --

MACCALLUM: Just shocking. I mean, nothing happens in Washington in three months. Absolutely nothing.

STIREWALT: Which leaves - which leaves us two possible scenarios here basically. Scenario one is that it's nothing, there's no -- nobody.

MACCALLUM: That's what Lindsey Graham said here the other night.

STIREWALT: That there's nobody and it's -- nothing is going to happen and they're going to come back and say, yes, we checked, there' was - there are no problem here, Russia stinks, they hate America and they hate our institutions but they did not succeed in flipping anybody in Trump camp. That's one and that would be the best news for the White House of course. Second case is Mueller's picking up an investigation close to the conclusion and that the work that had already been done at the FBI that he just -

MACCALLUM: (INAUDIBLE)

STIREWALT: That he - that he -

MACCALLUM: Standing off on it.

STIREWALT: So we don't know, but thank god, three months.

MACCALLUM: Three months.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Nothing happens that fast. If only they could slip, you know, some other tax reform and legislation and get out there.

STIREWALT: I'm so tired from this leak already. Don't speed them up.

MACCALLUM: All right. So I want to play this Nancy Pelosi. Switching gears with you for just a moment because I found this interesting this morning and I want to get your reaction. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALI., MINORITY LEADER: The president's fitness for office is something that's been called into question, it takes a certain curiosity to learn the facts, to base your comments on evidence and data and the truth. It takes some kind of stamina to keep your thoughts together. And I'm very worried about his fitness. But that's something he in the people in the White House have to make a judgment about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Wow.

STIREWALT: Well, I mean, it's Nancy Pelosi.

MACCALLUM: Nancy Pelosi.

STIREWALT: It's Nancy Pelosi.

MACCALLUM: This morning she said, I'm worried - I think his family and they must be worried about him, I think someone needs to step in. I mean, he can just see sort of the chipping around the edges of everything that can be done to undermine this presidency which is what both sides do, that's politics.

STIREWALT: And also, it's Nancy Pelosi. Not like anybody takes her seriously.

MACCALLUM: It is but I mean, you know, you look at the reaction in many corners, it's it is, they said it's a huge, dramatic sort of disintegrating process of this White House in this presidency, is that what it is? And the president came out today and tried to sort of push it off, not talk about it to too much.

What do you think?

STIREWALT: So, happy infrastructure week.

MACCALLUM: We learned a lot about --

STIREWALT: We learned to so much about locks and dams. I would say this. They are making a good faith effort in this White House and the president who was quiet on Twitter for the longest stretch of almost two years of his life or he's adult to the Twitter era, they're making a good-faith effort here to be disciplined, to be sensible, to not cause new problems by dealing with old ones. The president was a little rambunctious in his press conference today, his bilateral press conference, but, you know, they're making an effort. And maybe if they can and ignore Nancy Pelosi, ignore this other stuff, tighten up, they can be all right.

MACCALLUM: Button it up.

STIREWALT: Button it up.

MACCALLUM: Chris Stirewalt.

STIREWALT: Right here.

MACCALLUM: Thank you, sir.

STIREWALT: Yes, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you as always.

STIREWALT: Happy Friday.

MACCALLUM: You too. So, still ahead, we were all listening to the same testimony perhaps today, James Comey admitted that he licked private information to the press but many in the media concluded that, "In a credibility contest with Trump, James Comey was the obvious winner," says the Los Angeles Times yesterday. So what did our media analyst Howard Kurtz think about all of that? Why he says the media is suddenly letting Comey "Wear the white hat." What is the white hat? We ask Chris Stirewalt when Howard Kurtz comes up in a moment.

And also a stunner across the pond as it is British Prime Minister Theresa May, her party suffers a huge defeat. Nobody saw this coming, what this means for Brexit and nationalism in the U.K.? And immigration and all of that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Live from America's news headquarters, I'm Trace Gallagher. President Trump says he is 100 percent willing to testify under oath about his interactions with former FBI Director James Comey. The president insists that Comey lied in some part of the testimony he gave yesterday before the Senate Intelligence Committee. Mr. Trump is also claiming that Comey cleared him of wrongdoing in his testimony, Comey refused to say whether he thought Trump had obstructed justice but he did suggest that was a matter for the special prosecutor to consider. President Trump is accusing cutter of funding terrorism at "A very high level," and says it must stop now. But at the same time, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is urging Arab nations to immediately ease their blockade on cutter. He says it's hurting American efforts to fight ISIS. Cutter leaders deny supporting terror groups. I'm Trace Gallagher in Los Angeles. Now back to The Story with Martha MacCallum.

MACCALLUM: Despite the fact that James Comey admitted Thursday he was the one who leaked his private conversations with President Trump to the press and that Trump, the president was never under investigation by the FBI, many in the media are ignoring the fact and have tasked Comey as a saint in all of this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: I think Comey came across as an honest man under oath against a president who really doesn't focus much attention on telling the truth.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The big story here is Trump has completely lost control of this town and the narrative and the guy he thought he took off the boards is basically running D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today it really was as it was predicted to be the worst day of the Trump presidency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKINNON: Just worst in the last day that he covers the story, Howard Kurtz joins us now host of Media Buzz. Lawrence O'Donnell has had quite a few dramatic opens over the last several weeks. So, Howie, how did the press do covering this yesterday?

HOWARD KURTZ, "MEDIABUZZ" HOST: James Comey clearly now has a tarnished halo but because he is calling President Trump a liar but the media are happy to grant him angelic status. This is a guy being portrayed now is a folksy, no nonsense g-man whose upholding truth, justice, and the American way despite the fact that much of what he said at the hearing confirms part of President Trump's account.

MACCALLUM: Indeed it does. Here's a tweet from President Trump, he said despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication was his take. And wow, Comey is a leaker and I want to play what he said this afternoon at the news conference before calling on a member of the press, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Should I take one of the killer networks that treated me as badly as fake news, should I do that? Go ahead, John.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Then he went on to point the finger, used to be nice to me and you're not nice to me anymore. It's a tricky situation, the president clearly feels that a lot of the press is not on his side and it's been demonstrated, look at the numbers and the percentage of positive to negative stories about this president. Can he get a fair shake from anybody out there Howie?

KURTZ: He is not getting a fair shake from most news organizations, on this business with Comey being a leaker. He is now admitted under oath leaker. He has been driving the media narrative against Trump for about a month now. For a guy from the FBI he is left a lot of fingerprints, it was obvious to anybody he was behind the stories, he said Trump told him to shut on the Mike Flynn investigation. I think the press is giving him a pass and instead of depicting him as a savvy Washington operator who knows how the game is played.

MCKINNON: If you look across the newspaper this morning, it's these sorts of cherubic pictures of him sitting there holding up his right hand for his oath and coming off smelling like a rose. If you dig in some of the earlier Comey stories, there are a lot of questions out there. The bottom line is you have to look at both sides of this story, Howie, it was interesting to me that Chris Matthews also pointed out that he believes the obstruction of justice idea and line of thinking pretty much washed up he felt in that room yesterday.

KURTZ: And Comey, he was careful, he was a good witness. He was careful to say he wasn't making the charge of obstruction of justice. He was just trying to supply the facts, look just a few months ago Martha, that much of the media in the liberal side was castigating James Comey for reopening his investigation of Hillary Clinton in final days of the election.

MACCALLUM: They hated the guy.

KURTZ: Hated him but now he is useful, because he is an outspoken Trump critic so he is getting very nice treatment from the press. We are to be skeptical of both sides but at the same time we are to not just give Comey a free pass which is just happening.

MACCALLUM: You wonder why people lose faith in institutions and media too the greatest extent as well. Howie thank you very much, good to see you, sir.

KURTZ: Great to see you as well.

MACCALLUM: Still coming up right here, New York City still considers honoring a terrorist behind more than 100 bombings in the United States. A detective who survived one of the deadly blasts says this man is no hero and should not be honored. His powerful story is a straight ahead. And British Prime Minister Theresa May asks Supreme's permission to form a government despite the fact that she lost a majority in yesterday's elections. What does this mean for America, for the breakfast comparisons, all of that coming up next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)


THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What I'm doing today is focusing on forming a government, in the national interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAY: I have just been to see her majesty the queen. And I will now form a government. A government then can provide certainty and move forward at this critical time for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was British Prime Minister Theresa May scrambling to see her way out of a stunning reversal in the U.K. elections. May losing the majority in the parliament in a snap election that she called three years early, hoping to win a big majority to ease the Brexit transition. Now the future of Brexit is on the line along with her job. President Trump has this to say about the outcome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your response to the U.K. elections?

TRUMP: Surprising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Very surprising, Nile Gardiner is a former special adviser to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, good to have you with us today.

NILE GARDINER, FORMER SPECIAL ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER MARGARET THATCHER:
Great to be here, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Obviously President Trump a surprising, the whole world it found what happened surprising, does the outcome distribute? What does it tell you about what's going on in the United Kingdom?

GARDINER: An incredible night, real political upset here at the conservatives. Had not expect to win comfortably, did not at the end of the day receive overall working majority. The outlook ahead is certainly to be very tough for Prime Minister May. She is about to move forward with a minority government but depending on the support of the Democratic unionists. She is going to be dependent upon another political party to be able to govern over the course of the coming years, a very precarious situation certainly for the Prime Minister at this time, but she has vowed to move forward with Brexit and ensure that it will take place. Now that is a very important message to send to the British people that Brexit will be implemented, the will of the British people will certainly be delivered.

MACCALLUM: I guess that is my biggest question, when the Brexit vote happened, that was also a huge upset, a really shocking vote for people watching the situation. Is the vote that we saw yesterday a reflection on Brexit, our people no longer happy with that idea? Or is it more a reflection on Theresa May?

GARDINER: It will, certainly not a rejection of Brexit after all of the opposition labor Party led by Jeremy Corbyn now backs Brexit and pledge during the campaign to implement Brexit. Only one major UKY Political Party stood on a platform of opposing Brexit. It wasn't a rejection of opposing the exit from the European Union at all. However major questions are being raise today about Theresa May performance as a Prime Minister and her leadership will be on the campaign, there are certainly doubts within the conservative party with regard to the Prime Minister's future. This was not it has to be said a very effectively run campaign, Also Theresa May during the course of the campaign, trying to move the party more to the sense of ground rather than keep it on the right. I don't think it actually helps in terms of bringing out the votes.

MACCALLUM: So fascinating to watch, because we see, we see some of what we've seen here at home in the United Kingdom, not having a lot of traction. Very loose parallels and more nationalist movement on one side and you have Jeremy Corbyn who in some ways lines with Bernie Sanders, where he and Trump had a little bit of common grounds. Do you agree?

GARDINER: Certainly Jeremy Corbyn shares a lot in common with Bernie Sanders, he is even further to the left of Bernie Sanders. He makes Bernie Sanders look like Ronald Reagan. I do think overall, the British people, they do want to see Brexit taking place. They want to see a stronger Britain on the world state. They want to see it outside of the European Union. I think Jeremy Corbyn offers a sort of big government message that appeals to younger voters, that was a problem for the conservatives.

MACCALLUM: Big young turn out in this vote. Thank you very much, always good to see you.

GARDINER: Great to see you, thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, anger and outrage after it New York City considers honoring a terrorist. Oscar Lopez Rivera is responsible for more than 100 bombings in the 1970s and 80s. A detective who survived one of those deadly blasts and a man whose father was killed in the same one are here, their powerful reaction to all of this right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Outrages is mounting over a nixed decision to honor Oscar Lopez Rivera. The former leader of a Puerto Rican nationalist terror group that was responsible for more than 100 bombings in the 1970s and 80s. And what organizers said, the former prisoner is now just a participant in this weekend Puerto Rican day parade, others believe the damage is already done and will likely be worse. Trace Gallagher joins me now, with more of this in our West Coast News Room, hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi Martha, Oscar Lopez Rivera is a Puerto Rican nationalist who moved to the U.S. when he was 14 and later became convinced that Puerto Rico was a U.S. colony. Lopez became the leader of FALN, a Spanish acronym that translates to armed forces of national liberation, a terror group that fought for the independence of Puerto Rico and in the 1970s and 80s was behind more than 100 bombings in New York, Chicago, and D.C. Those attacks killed at six and injured hundreds including several police officers, the deadliest bay in the 1975 bombing of France's tavern in New York financial district that killed four and injured 60. Lopez Rivera was never convicted of killing or injuring anyone. He was convicting convicted of conspiring to overthrow the U.S. Government, and explosives are found in apartment links to him. Those who had investigated the Tavern bombings said Lopez Rivera was behind it, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is said that he is a freedom fighter for independence and Puerto Rico. He is not that, he is a terrorist as surely as Obama -- Osama Bin Laden or Timothy McVeigh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: In 1999 Lopes Rivera refused to accept President Clinton commutation unless other FALN members were also sent free. Before he accepted President Obama's commutation back in January, Lopez Rivera made it clear he had no remorse which infuriates Joseph Connor whose dad was killed in the tavern bombing, listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH CONNOR, LOST FATHER TO TERROR ATTACK: I hear Oscar never hurt anybody. If you take those words verbatim, it means my father was nobody, because he did hurt people. He was convicted of being a leader of a conspiracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: When it was announced that Lopez Rivera would be honored at the Puerto Rican day parades, several sponsors and floats pulled out. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, New York police commissioner James O'Neal and New York Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer refused to March. And we should note, while parade organizers says Lopez Rivera will not be honored during the parade, the speaker of the New York City council still says he will be honored, Martha.

MACCALLUM: All right Trace, thank you so much. Joining me now is two of the men whose lives were deeply and tragically affected by Oscar Lopez Rivera. Richard Pastorella Former NYPD bomb squad detective injured in one of those blasts and Joseph Connor who lost his father to an FALN terrorist attack in New York City attacks, it's good to have both of you here. Thank you for being here tonight and just a brief version, you went over to dismantle a bomb after helping some of your fellow officers who had been hit by a bomb, and you lost quite a lot.

RICHARD PASTORELLA FORMER NYPD BOMB SQUAD: I did. On the evening of December 31st 1982, New Year's Eve night, most officers were of Times Square of course and we were very short staffed. I myself assigned to the bomb squad. I was a Bomb technician, I was a junior manager, and most of the seniors had off. I had a partner with me a dog handler, and we had received a call that a bomb had exploded at 26 and earl plaza, the FBI office in Manhattan and we responded to there. Virtually every window and the back of the building had been blown out. There were shards of glass everywhere. Because of that, we had a bomb k-9 with us and we decided not to use the dog fearing that it would have its paws lacerated by the glass.

So, Anthony and I decided to do a manual search of the area. When we were doing that, we heard an explosion, we didn't know from what direction but we were informed by police radio that an officer was down at one police plaza. Realizing we had a physical injury, we responded there. When we approached the scene there, I could see there was an officer prone on the ground in a large pool of blood, there were two other emergency service officers.

MACCALLUM: Then you went over to another area after that, I want to expend what happened to you and then the bomb went off when you were nearby at. You saved us from 30 people that you cleared for that area, correct?

PASTORELLA: That is true. One of the commodities you don't have his time, you don't know how much time is built into the bombs. There were Asian people wandering around in the area in the vicinity of two live explosives. We decided to move them back, get them out of the way. We had to pick some people up and take them to safe distance. I went to examine the paper bags that the dog indicated that contained explosives and as I reached out for it, it exploded in my face.

MACCALLUM: How do you feel about the fact this man who was finally released from prison is now going to be marching in this parade in New York City, despite the fact that he won't be officially honored, you can bet there's going to be a lot of people there just to see him and honor him, your thoughts, quickly.

PASTORELLA: That is unfortunately a fact. They say he is not being honored, he is. He is receiving an award for a national hero of Puerto Rico. For the life of me, I can't understand how he is a national hero. He is been in prison for 35 years for the sedition against the United States.

MACCALLUM: He has said he wants to see his grandchildren, I know you said you've never been able to see visually, because you lost your sight and that bomb, your own grandchildren which is a travesty that it goes back to this man. Joe you were having lunch with your family, a birthday celebration when this man and by extension the people who put those bombs there changed your life.

CONNOR: My father was having lunch with clients and they walked the bomb in and set it behind his table and they blew him up, they killed four.

MACCALLUM: He was 33 years old?

CONNOR: He was 33 years old. We were going to be celebrating my ninth birthday and my brother's 11th that night and he never got to see his grandchildren either. I empathize, kids who can't see their grandparents or their parents, but my father didn't cause it, Lopez and his group caused it.

MACCALLUM: People forget what it was like, bombs going off all the time. We think about ISIS, we look at the terror, but that was happening in this country. It was happening largely, because of the FALN and because of Lopez and now he is going to be honored this weekend.

CONNOR: Lopez is being honored as a hero. Aside from being a terrorist, what did Oscar Lopez Rivera do to push the independence of Puerto Rico? Only 5 percent of Puerto Ricans have ever wanted independence, 70 percent will vote to become a state. I want them to explain what did Lopez ever do to get an award for freedom if not being a terrorist?

MACCALLUM: He served this city in a very strong way and kept a lot of people safe, your hero to us. We thank you both for being here today.

PASTORELLA: Thank you.

CONNOR: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: The court of the night when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Before we go, in the wake of the election upset of the U.K., and the hearings in this week at home, this is from Winston Churchill as we head into the weekend. His wise as ever inside, quote, there are a terrible a lot of lies going about in the world of the worst of it is, is half of them are true. That is our story, thanks for sharing it with us tonight, Tucker Carlson coming up next.

END

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.