TRANSCRIPT

At what point is Islamist rhetoric a crime?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 6, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I am Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It is 9:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

We begin tonight with major developments on terrorism front from all over the world. In Paris today, a man attacked a police officer with a hammer while reportedly shouting "This is for Syria" before police shot and wounded him.

And in Australia, a man of Somali descent killed one and took a woman hostage before police shot him dead. ISIS is claiming responsibility. But first, new details are emerging about missed opportunities to Saturday's attack in London. Khuram Butt, one of the three London terrorists even appeared in a British documentary called "The Jihadist Next Door." London police haven't yet confirmed it's him in the video but several media organizations have verified this authenticity. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Because he is white and English, he can go. But all of us that we just -- we have to stay. This is the reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the reality. Don't forget all the laws. We were just praying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Now, Greg, it might be easy for -- hindsight is 20/20. "The Jihadist Next Door," might give you a clue that they are actually next door. But do you know if they are actually going to be violent, at one point can the police intervene and that seems to be like the big question tonight, like how do you deal with this overall?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know what's so strange about this story, about the documentaries that whenever you watch the movie, what do you see at the end? You see roughly 100 names, credits. From directors, the writers, the stuntmen, the hair and makeup, the caterers.

PERINO: Grips.

GUTFELD: Grips. There can be hundreds of names. And I am just wondering, how many of them felt compelled to do something when they see the content of the subject that they are looking at. There are many people who knew about this first because they worked on the film but they didn't do anything about it because of the same thing that we always talk about. Being called a racist or Islamophobic which allows a force field. So, you can't touch them. I kept thinking, what if you divorced religion from their murderous assertions, then you would have a serial killer.

And what if a serial killer announced before he was going to serial killed his plans publicly beforehand. Like one of these terrorists did when they were in an airport in Italy when he says, I am going to fight terror. You would, that is not a crime. But you could actually institutionalize them because they are insane. If somebody says that they are going to embark on mass murder, you could probably out of the -- that he might be mentally ill -- put them away. These people are insane. Put them away.

PERINO: And I actually think Kimberly from a legal standpoint, I'm interested in this line.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Uh-hm.

PERINO: So, there are laws in Britain and also we have some here that say, like, if you do this or that, if you pledge allegiance to ISIS, then you can be taken into custody but how long do you keep them, what are the charges? How do you defend them? The other thing that's amazing is that they were on public benefits.

GUILFOYLE: This just gets more amazing by the minute, doesn't it? It's so disgusting and appalling. Because we have to like bend over backwards to accommodate people that want to murder innocent women and children and destroy everyone's well-being and the life that we know that we love every day. That is sad to me. Because we are really hindering the ability of law enforcement to do the job that they have been sworn to do to protect and serve.

And instead, they want to give apologies to people like this for telling us directly what it is that it's in their hearts, that's in their minds, they are forecasting their intentions. But that's still not good enough. What do you want? Like only after the fact that the act is completed, that's sufficient? That's not what the law says. If you can catch people like this conspiring and you can catch like an act and further and stuff, that should be sufficient.

And now, look, the world has to see this. Can you imagine how offensive and just deeply disturbing it is to the family members that have to watch these videos and hear these words and know that these people were identified and on the radar and absolutely nothing was done? Whose side are you playing for? That's what's bothers me so much. I mean, I don't understand. You know, mail it in. Hand it over to them. We are sorry. Are you offended? Have we offended your right to kill us? That's what I don't get. And we are seeing it play out in London. It's playing out throughout the world and it's playing out here in the United States. And people are mad about tweets instead.

PERINO: The MI-5 Jesse said in 2015, they are under unprecedented pressure and today they say that they have 3,000 targeted high, like high risk, Jihadists that they are watching. They have 500 who are high risk and they have 20,000 that are former Jihadists that they are watching. So, you have risk management problem in terms of resources.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: You do. It's hard to prioritize these animals. And the guy, Butt I think was his name, he was low to moderate risk.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: So, could you imagine the high risk guys you are looking at?

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly.

WATTERS: And I can't believe this guy was on welfare. The welfare terrorists. That would be The New York Post headline the next day.

GUILFOYLE: Welfare jihad.

WATTERS: Welfare jihad. If you're holding up an ISIS flag in the middle of the city, that should be a red flag. That guy should go from medium threat level to high threat level. They're enemies of the state, Greg is right, they're serial killers. If someone walks like a terrorist and talks like a terrorist, they are probably a terrorist. What you are is, if you are a terrorist sympathizer or appear in a video, you are an unlit fuse and all it takes is one strike of a match and kaboom and people are dead.

So, British authorities have to start rounding up unlit fuses right away because they can't let this stuff happen over and over again. It's kind of like child pornography. You treat it like an offense, it's a one strike policy. So, if someone shows an interest in distributing against disseminating child pornography, or you know, is online talking about it, boom. Throw the book at them.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: You have to do the same thing with jihadists.

PERINO: Juan, one of the things that we have been worried about for like the past five or six years is that, you were going to have westerners who were traveling to Syria for training and because they have a Western passport, they were going to be able to come back. The other thing that's happened is that their radicalization is speed up. So, as ISIS strengths its territory get strong. They are at now basically deputizing everybody around the world and saying, don't wait for us. Don't even come here to the caliphate. Just try to do your work there.

And the radicalization is speed up so much that now you actually have terrorists that are younger and younger. So, to Jesse's point, I understand like the desire to try to round them up but, and then, what to do with them from there? And like what are the charges that they are actually citizens of Western countries.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": It's very difficult. And again, what you can do in a situation that you just described is, if people have dual passports, then take away their British citizenship. So, they can't come back in our country. So, you can take those steps. But I just wanted to respond to what I was hearing and say, you know, Britain has had experience with this before in terms of the Irish issues. Remember the Northern Irish, what they call the troubles over in Britain, right?

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And what they did then was they created almost basically internment camps. Right? And what they found was, it wasn't effective. In fact, it became a recruitment tool for Irish terrorism. As it was being perpetrated in Britain.

PERINO: Well, that's what people said around the world about Gitmo.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's what people say --

PERINO: I mean, I think Islamic terrorism is, I understand terrorism is terrorism but I do think that this threat is different. Especially because at their height, the MI-5 would say that during the troubles, they had about 103 people who were --

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: I just mentioned 23, almost 24,000 that we know of.

WILLIAMS: So, you come to two points. One is, the one that you are making, you have such a large pool of people, you know, such the large pool of people and the question becomes, you know, do you want thought police? I mean, so you can't --

GUILFOYLE: It's not thought police. The fact and furtherance off and it should be enough.

WILLIAMS: Hang on. Let me make my point.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I am the lawyer here and I'm telling you what you are saying is not accurate.

WILLIAMS: Well, what I am saying is very accurate. So, allow me to make it. Which is that, if you have a flag as we saw on that documentary, if you are saying outrageous things, at what point does that then become evidence of extremism or intent to incite violence? And one of the problems that Theresa May, the Prime Minister has made is that, and she was in charge of Homeland Security for the Brits before she became Prime Minister. She said, you know, it's hard to define extremism under law in a way that is effective. And that they are still struggling in Britain with this issue.

GUILFOYLE: What about providing materials support on behalf of the terrorists --

WILLIAMS: Well, that would be different. As we just heard, and this came up today because of a YouTube thing that was about how to use a truck to kill people. You know, so the YouTube thing was eventually taken down when "The Wall Street Journal" called YouTube. But at what point is that material support?

WATTERS: It's more than just speech, Juan, if you are speaking about Jihad and you're trying to encourage the overthrow of the British government and you're talking about imposing Sharia Law on the country, unfurling an ISIS flag and you are known associates or radical clerics who's been imprisoned, someone that's blown himself up, someone that's on a watch list and you are a member of a banned group, you piled all of that together.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But that's Dana's point, isn't it? Dana just said, by that standard, you know, people looking around and saying now, who qualifies? You have got about 23,000 people.

PERINO: Well, that they know of. Greg, you want to make a point?

GUTFELD: Well, you know who qualifies in this modern age under this ruse of hate speech is, you can be guilty of hate speech as long as you belong to a certain group. And it's really, really hard to go after radical Muslims because you will be portrayed as going after an aggrieved group. I remember there were climate change -- people in the media have said that if you are climate change skeptics, you should be imprisoned.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Those are the same people that would scoff at you for deporting hate field Imams. They would call you a bigot for doing that. When people are enraged over the death of innocent people, they often offer solutions. And I think like, we have offered lots of solutions. Trump offered solutions. A lot of people do. What's interesting is, there's an entire oppositional side of critics who offer no solutions. They stop at this like, but what about this or what about that? And while condemning the people that come up with the solutions -- once you come up with a solution, they go my God, if you come up with any kind of tool whether it's a band, or it's vetting, or it's a new law --

PERINO: What about surveillance?

GUTFELD: Surveillance?

PERINO: Remember the NYPD coming under such attack by the Associated Press?

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: It's surveillance.

GUTFELD: What happens is, when you come up with some kind of alternative or some kind of a plan, they will accuse you of being a bigot from a perch of their own cowardice where they offer false sentiment on Twitter.

WILLIAMS: But Greg, but Greg --

GUTFELD: Where they say, what about their rights? Their radical hate speech Imams out there who are creating a lot of this --

WILLIAMS: Greg, I don't think Theresa May is going to be intimidated by calling, by saying that she's politically correct. She is trying to stop it. I think, everybody wants to stop it. The question is, what are the constitutional rights? Your rights to privacy, to free speech, to organize, to assemble. And how do we make that --

GUILFOYLE: But guess what? Here's the problem.

WILLIAMS: The fact that we are battling these monsters, we don't want to become the monsters.

GUILFOYLE: But Juan, you have all of these like philosophic explanations. Where are your solutions?

WILLIAMS: Well, nobody said do nothing, why do you say do nothing?

GUTFELD: No, that's what I'm saying. I am saying, do everything.

WATTERS: Yes. He's saying also tolerant --

WILLIAMS: But I don't want to be dead.

WATTERS: If you're too tolerant, if you're too --

GUILFOYLE: But you haven't provided any ideas or solutions, you simply --

WILLIAMS: No, I think there are a lot of --

GUILFOYLE: You simply criticize --

WILLIAMS: No, no, no!

GUILFOYLE: No, you do. You criticize and find fault with everybody that tries to come forward with the idea and you impugn them --

WILLIAMS: No, that is not the case.

GUILFOYLE: -- because you think they had some bad intentions and a bad heart because they want to make people safe and fight terrorism.

WILLIAMS: No, Kimberly, that's not the one I'm doing.

GUILFOYLE: Give me one idea what we can do.

WILLIAMS: I just gave you a moment ago in terms of stopping people from coming back in by denying them a passport to your country. I told you that. But I mean, there are other examples as well. The question is, how do you do it in an effective way?

GUTFELD: Uh-hm.

WILLIAMS: Not just blanket loud rhetoric like they are bad people.

GUILFOYLE: What is the bases?

GUTFELD: That's not what people are saying. They're bad people, they're trying to figure out --

(CROSSTALK)

They are. But every time you try to offer some kind of a constructive or maybe sometimes it's an emotional response, you are taking the risk in this society of being called something. So what that does is it tamps down the actual debates of people don't want to talk about it. We have to loosen the screws here and allow people to talk about the ideas that may be consider dangerous in order to reach. Maybe some kind of decision that isn't dangerous but we can't stop the debate by going no, we can't talk about that. We should be able to --

WILLIAMS: I don't see that as reality. In fact --

GUTFELD: Juan?

WILLIAMS: There is so much fear right now about terrorists, in a place like London, that the question is whether or not people go overboard.

WATTERS: No, there's also the fear of people being labeled a bigot too.

WILLIAMS: I just don't see that, I never hear that from any public official.

PERINO: All right. Well, we are not going to solve it in this a-block because we got more coming up. President Trump is in a big feud with London's mayor. We're going to tell you about all of that directly ahead

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Sadiq Khan made history last year when he became the first Muslim elected mayor of London. But President Trump made it known on twitter that he wasn't to impress with the mayor's response to Saturday's terror attack in the British capital. Khan doesn't appear to be enamored with Mr. Trump, either.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR SADIQ KHAN, LONDON: I don't think we should roll out the red carpet to the President of the USA in the circumstances where his policies go against everything we stand for. I think one of the things, when you have a special relationship is not different, no different when you have got a close mate. You stand with them in times of adversity but you call them out when they are wrong. And there are many things about which Donald Trump is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Kimberly, the London mayor says, he doesn't want to roll out the red carpet for President Trump but some could argue he's been really rolling the red carpet out for a lot of these Muslim extremists who've just come in out of the country willy-nilly.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-hm. So, who died and made him prime minister?

WATTERS: Just a mayor?

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, I mean, you know, just act mayoral. You know, listen, if he can't complain about it, and he has to take issue with the President because he doesn't like what the President said about, you know, how he handled this. Okay, you have a disagreement about that, people think perhaps the President should not have written and tweeted what he did. Perhaps the President misconstrued what Mr. Khan was saying. Okay.

But nevertheless, then, what we talk about on this show all the time? Be the bigger person then. If you feel aggrieved and you feel that he did wrong, then say, okay, let's come and work together on this. And in fact, worked on common goals and interests to fight and combat an enemy that wants to see both of our countries in peril and do grave harm and injustice and commit jihad against us. That is what I think you have to do. I mean, because otherwise there is the petty back and forth. Two wrongs don't make a right. We can say, I intended this. He intended that. No, my intentions were good and it's just wasting time back and forth on semantics and then let's just show by your actions how you behave.

WATTERS: You were rolling your eyes a little bit when Kimberly was talking at the beginning. What was that about, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, I was listening. Because I really appreciate her thoughts. So, I was listening. But when she said, you know, that it was the mayor who really, you know, was going off and I just thought to myself, what about President Trump? President Trump would attack the mayor.

GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that. I said in fact that he was upset with the way the President handled it and the comments that the President made on Twitter that he feels we are not properly evaluating and understanding what he was trying to say. When the President said, wait a second, there's many people dead, there's many injured but no one should be alarmed? Then people came to the mayor's defense and said he wasn't trying to say that, he just wanted to try to instill calm in people during an act of terror.

WILLIAMS: No. The mayor was --

GUILFOYLE: And then people said, well, perhaps President Trump misconstrued the mayor's comments.

WILLIAMS: He did.

GUILFOYLE: So, we're going back and forth in talking about the semantics.

WILLIAMS: There's no semantics. The mayor said, don't be alarmed about the -- of so many extra police on the streets to his citizens in London. The President responded that the mayor was making excuses and why shouldn't the people be alarmed about the threat of terrorism? Total disconnect. But what's telling to me is that Theresa May, the prime minister defended the mayor. Even the acting U.S. ambassador to Britain spoke out and said the mayor has provided strong leadership in London. So, this would suggest to me that there is a wide sense and even among the British people that they praise their security forces, they praised their mayor, and they don't have any trouble. It's President Trump who's picking a fight with our ally.

WATTERS: Well, I think he was finishing a fight. And this guy the mayor, you know, caused a lot of drama with Trump's travel ban as well. Many, many, many --

GUILFOYLE: He is not innocent in terms of his commentary.

WATTERS: Dana, do you think as the first Muslim mayor of London, he feels an added pressure to deal with these radical extremists in his own city or does he just take that out of the equation?

PERINO: Well, I saw additional commentary from him where he was speaking to the radical Islamic terrorists and saying, you are, this will not stand for me. Look, that's not a terrible thing. I think this whole dispute is such a shame and completely unnecessary. And it would be great if the leaders could come together and say, actually, we are all on the same side here. But I don't see the President doing that and I don't think the mayor would accept it either. I think that both of them are also playing to their domestic audiences and there's actually really no time for politics here. We have people who are trying to kill us. So, we should just all be on the same page.

WATTERS: Greg, I want to play a sound bite from Hillary Clinton's former spokesperson, emphasis on former. He said this about President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN FALLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The president likes to pick on people of color and set them up as foils. If you think of the people he sets out and embarks on Twitter wars with, you have Mayor Khan, you have Khizr Khan, you have Judge Curiel. He likes these foils that set up a narrative that caters to a certain element in his base that he likes to send dog whistle signals to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: The President discriminate when he attacks --

GUTFELD: He is right though. He's right though. He picks on people of color. All color. Every single color.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: That is why I think Mayor Khan is okay. You've just got to realize, he's not special. Trump does this to everyone.

WATTERS: Right.

GUTFELD: He's in equal opportunity negative tweeter. And I think that Trump, what's wrong to do that? He should not have done that. But you know, the thing is Trump can be wrong on these small things.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: But his response is somewhat closer to the assumptions, fears, and desires of the general public in England and America. He represents the concerned public more than Khan does. You can argue that Khan is an ostrich. He is something that buries his head in the sand about the bigger issues. About Islamaphobia, phobia, about dealing with the incoming threats. About dealing with what's already there and how to deal with these mosques. He has big problems. Focusing on Trump, I get it but Trump is actually may be closer to the street than Khan ever will be.

WATTERS: Wow! That is a big indictment of the mayor.

All right. President Trump ordered his administration to find the leakers. The Feds say, they just nabbed one. We will give you the details up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Welcome back. President Trump has ordered his administration to find all leakers of classified information. Over the weekend the FBI nabbed its first suspect in the Trump ear. Twenty five-year-old federal contractor Reality Winner has been charged with violating the espionage act. Winter is alleged to have mailed a classified documents about Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election to a news web site, The Intercept. She faces up to ten years in prison.

Jesse, no, we did not make up that name.

WATTERS: Yes. I mean --

GUILFOYLE: Is Reality Winner fired?

WATTERS: Yes. Get her out of here. I mean, that name should have shook off alarm bells, her parents were obviously hippies.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Your parents were hippies.

WATTERS: I know and look what I've turned out. I rebelled. No. I mean, she's got, if you look at her social media, I mean, she said that being white is terrorism. She called President Trump the seaward, she called him an orange fascist, she's a Black Lives Matter supporter. She's feeling the burn. Big burn. Sanders' supporter. She loved Anderson Cooper and all of these people like Bill Maher and Michael Moore.

GUILFOYLE: Don't say Kathy Griffin.

WATTERS: No. Yes, please. She's not even a good leaker. Apparently they called her because she had all the pages folded over and then it's like, oh God -- email, but this should really send a chill on the spines of all of these leakers in the administration. I'm glad they finally got someone. And I think there's more where that came from.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, people are very frustrated and upset about this. And, you know, should she be treated any differently than if it was, you know, a man, an older man in the business for however long that got charged and caught with this.

PERINO: Absolutely not. And if you want a career in intelligence, I think one of the best things you can do young people is just shut down your social media account.

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: Also don't smoke marijuana because still they're going to the federal government and they will not pass you through the drug test.

WATTERS: Are you doing that the hard way?

PERINO: No.

(LAUGHTER)

I just know that -- I know that this is actually a problem in the federal government right now. That they try to hire young people. They want to hire them and all of a sudden, they want to send them to the drug test and like, oh, you know what? I just took a job at Whole Foods, I think I'm good. And I know this for a fact is happening, but my point is --

GUTFELD: That's the problem.

PERINO: Well, that is a problem but it is just (INAUDIBLE) to law (ph).

GUTFELD: You get this and you get these people instead. I'll take a pothead.

PERINO: This is what I would tell her. It's not worth it, right. So, it's not glamorous. She is not going to be Ed Snowden. She didn't have the presence of mind to like ask the Russians to like bail her out possibly because the actual underlying story of what she leaked is very eye-opening. I mean, we shouldn't stop over the fact that there is more to this.

What I would say to these young people, if you feel that strongly about it, there is an investigation. There is a special counsel. Let that play out. If at the end of that you still feel like there was something wrong, go to your superiors. Do not go to the press. It will not turn out well for you. It will ruin your life.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, don't commit crimes against the country. She's facing 10 years now because she broke the law. You might be short of cash someday, Greg, but do you go rob a bank?

GUTFELD: I've thought about it. You know, the lesson from Snowden is extreme vetting is necessary for people who work in intelligence. How did this person get clearance is what I want to know? She's 25-years-old. She's highly politically motivated. No real life experiences -- wisdom. And when you lack wisdom, you are gullible, you're easily influenced. You are the type of person who might do something like this and I don't think you'll be trusted.

GUILFOYLE: A double agent. She sees herself as a social justice warrior.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: The thing is we're living in a world where the people who keep us safe are at the mercy of people who seek sainthood because we will make her into a hero. No question about it. She's fulfilling the fantasies at MSNBC. She's feeding into the idea that somehow the Russians were involved, not colluding. There's no evidence of colluding, but they were involved. That feeds into a huge narrative that the left loves. She will be -- Jennifer Lawrence will probably be playing her in three years.

WATTERS: Are you sure, Jennifer Lawrence?

GUTFELD: There are always, you know, what difference.

GUILFOYLE: It's actually possible. Take a look at her. This delicate --

GUTFELD: She's going to be playing me, by the way, in my movie.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say the fact, 25- years-old but she was an Air Force veteran. So, she had been --

GUTFELD: I stand corrected. I stand corrected.

WILLIAMS: -- so, she had been in the Air Force and I think she must have had some clearance at that point to do what she was doing. And I think she had a loyal service to the country in the Air Force and honorably discharged and that's what got her into these positions. What interests me here is couple of things. One is WikiLeaks is now trying to go after this publication, intercept, what published the revelations on Monday.

WikiLeaks says they want the reporter fired because they said the reporter essentially outed her.

GUTFELD: Here's the issue because WikiLeaks' Assange and Glenn Greenwald weren't they, you know, basically, metaphorically, in bed together from the start?

WILLIAMS: Yes. And so you have Assange now in fact saluting her and saying it's great but non-elite opinions and information is going to the public. And to come back to Dana's point, I think it's important that we say that what the document allegedly said was that the Russians had succeeded with spear (ph) phishing attacks on local election offices in the country with the intent of disabling the election machines. This is important information.

GUTFELD: But you know what phishing is. It's just trying to get your password. We understand -- people mistake phishing for hacking. We have a little science all over our company. Make sure you have a good password. So, it's preying on people who aren't changing their passwords or the passwords of the (INAUDIBLE).

PERINO: Like ones at the local election --

GUILFOYLE: "Watters World."

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WATTERS: I know but at least --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: All lower case and every six months he changes it to (INAUDIBLE).

WATTERS: OK, you just told the entire country my password.

GUTFELD: But it isn't like hacking the machines, do you understand.

GUILFOYLE: But Greg, you make a great point. How did she get through this? It's pretty obvious. If you go to ingest the (INAUDIBLE) on this, I mean, right, she wasn't there -- she has tops (ph) on secret security.

GUTFELD: That's probably it. It was the Air Force --

GUILFOYLE: Same language of Farsi, Dari and Pashto, like, and she said --

GUTFELD: I should have read this course material.

GUILFOYLE: -- if we were in a war with the Iranians, she would be with the mullah's -- against the president.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, does it get worse than that. I mean, this is all just like open source intelligence that a seventh grader can go online and read about those.

GUTFELD: Can I defend her though on one specific thing?

GUILFOYLE: You already said Jennifer Lawrence would play her.

GUTFELD: Unlike Snowden and Chelsea Manning who dumped thousands and millions of documents, indiscriminate documents that jeopardized, you know, you know, foreign intel, she was highly specific about the things she did.

GUILFOYLE: Who let them go?

GUTFELD: Who? What do you mean?

GUILFOYLE: Because this was under the Obama administration. By the way --

GUTFELD: Yes. If anything, I'm giving her credit for only going after one thing.

GUILFOYLE: -- but no one (INAUDIBLE) let's bring him back. He should be in trouble too. And Chelsea Manning is like, who would give him a pardon, right?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, come on, that's a big -- of her a pardon. I mean it's a big problem. They shouldn't be tolerated and there shouldn't be exceptions given to be honest. It doesn't matter if you are feel the Bern person or whatever issues.

All right, a major military offensive on ISIS capital in Syria is currently underway. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: That is a strange, anyway. According to a statement from Operation Inherent Resolve, what we call the anti-ISIS coalition, U.S. backed forces have launched an offensive to drive ISIS from Raqqa, the so- called capital of the Islamic State. Recently, Rob O'Neill, the guy who killed bin Laden, told me the only way to destroy ISIS was to take back Raqqa and Mosul to prove the Islamic State was no state at all, because once you do that, you prove everything that ISIS has said to its groupies as a big, fat lie.

Exposing that they are deadbeats makes it hard for them to recruit new bodies. No one wants to join a loser. ISIS was able to recruit because they portrayed themselves as teeming hordes raging across the desert, forcing those in their path to bend to their brutal demands. And they said God approved.

For some reason, we took forever to counter this message. We thought they were JV! So we let it slide, as sexual losers the world over brought into this ISIS fantasy. Now, we must kill them all, and it seems that that's the plan.

For example, you don't hear much about taking prisoners anymore. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen a single prisoner. And ever since that first Gulf War, we've gotten used to seeing the march, surrenders, the taking of cities, the toppling of statues. Yet we see so little of that now. Maybe there's a reason for that? Maybe it's because what we're doing now is so unbending and so relentless the way it should have been all along.

Dana, I don't know if my reasoning is correct. I know there is no press so I'm wondering if it -- is it chicken or the egg? Is there no press so there will be no mercy or there is just no press there and that's why we don't see it?

PERINO: There are some very brave journalists but also I think that it's so dangerous and they cannot guarantee their safety and so they've had to move back. Some of the most moving pictures that have actually spurred us to action has been because reporters that have been there on the ground and be able to capture them. It's true that inaction has consequences and so President Trump is having to deal with that.

Pray for the innocents on the ground. They've been trying -- the coalition is doing a good job of trying to protect them, but you know that ISIS has - -

GUTFELD: A lot.

PERINO: -- figured out a way to do that. I imagine that President Erdogan will remain quiet. I would believe that President Trump and Erdogan talked about it and Erdogan, even though it pains him because he doesn't like the Kurds --

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: -- but he will do that. I do think it's critically important that we deny safe havens in this area but remember what we're talking on the A block. ISIS is already figuring out a way to evolve, and so their online recruitment is actually stepped up and their instructions now are don't come to the caliphate --

GUTFELD: Go somewhere else.

PERINO: -- do something -- do whatever you can in your area, and here are some XYZ how to do it.

GUTFELD: It seems though that, you know, Jesse, they're predicting a long battle because they've had so much time to prepare. They're entrenched. But if we take Raqqa, there's no work -- there's very little else for them left, I think.

WATTERS: I think they retreat somewhere more towards the west, but it's going to be a kind of close combat, door-to-door. There's probably going to be wired explosives. Well, we've given the Kurds a lot of military hardware, a lot of heavy weaponry. Even some vehicles and we're actually flying in reinforcements behind enemy lines.

We have special operators embedded with these Kurdish forces, so I think we're doing all the right things. And you know, if these two capitals fall, Mosul and this place right here, I think that sends a real, just strong signal to the rest of the world that I think will dampen down recruitment. But also, and I think President Trump will be judged on action, concrete action.

Whether the wall is built, whether ISIS loses these strongholds, whether taxes are cut. You know, President Obama was more judged on aspirations and words but I think if you knock down these two pillars, Raqqa and Mosul, I think that's going to be a very, very strong statement.

PERINO: The other thing President Trump is doing is letting the military do their job. They're not trying to run this out of the national security - -

WATTERS: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Or limit rules of engagement. This has been a really compelling strategic battle that is being waged here. And in terms of really making sure that the routes (ph) on the way even to on, you know, like are okay. Meaning they wanted to make sure that the FBI said, the democratic forces there were able to get through and have easy pass of egress and ingress like back and forth.

That's part of battle success and mission readiness. So they made sure to take that's lots of time to be able to do. This isn't going to be a quick, easy battle but it's definitely one worth fighting. And it's not just because to like, you know, make them extinct but it is also to send a message to those that would seek to join ISIS and if they seek to recruit.

We have now then destroyed your two twin capitals of the caliphate by being able to take Raqqa and being able to take Mosul. That is very important psychologically to try to like stamp out some of this resistance and people trying to like join them again.

GUTFELD: You know, there is always this left wing idea, Juan, that you know, if you take battle the terrorists it means the terrorists have won. It's like --

WILLIAMS: No, look, in fact, I would point out to you this started last November, but it is now escalated to the point that we are entering but we're doing so with some care because as you may have read, you know, the ISIS people dress up as civilians, in battle fatigues intending to confuse us. They put blankets over big buildings and streets so that our bombers can't see. You have to do it in such a way that you're not hurting civilians and then inspiring further generations of hatred or --

GUTFELD: I don't think anybody's thought that.

WILLIAMS: Of course everybody, I mean that's the --

GUILFOYLE: By the way, because that's why we in fact did just that and told them, and told the civilians and gave ample warning in advance that we're coming and that you should leave the area to in fact make sure that we minimize civilian casualties. You want your city back? We've got people, Democratic forces to go in place to take the town over, to bring you back and restore order after they're gone. Come back and this town will be yours again.

WILLIAMS: But the question is whether or not those civilians can get out without ISIS in fact killing them. I mean, this is part --

GUILFOYLE: I know they were there with them.

PERINO: -- and then holding them hostage.

GULFOYLE: Right, and that's what they said.

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm trying to say.

GUILFOYLE: Make sure and that you leave so that they don't use you as human shield, they don't hold you hostage, they don't kill you on the way. It decrease their battle abilities.

WILLIAMS: What I'm saying it's hard for them to leave if they're being held hostage. Anyway, I applaud it. I'm all for it. By the way, I think they go to Mosul. I mean, they have already started to shift some and the key point here is that it is a cancer. It has metastasized. It's online. It's very difficult.

GUTFELD: All right, President Trump sent a message to his fired FBI director today ahead of his testimony in Capitol Hill. His four words to James Comey, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Former FBI director James Comey testifies Thursday for the first time since he was fired by President Trump and he could detail his private conversations with the president on the Russia investigation. Mr. Trump had some interesting words for him today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, what message do you have to give Comey ahead of his testimony?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I wish him luck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Well in fact, everybody was asking what he is going to do during this period, Greg, and apparently Robert Costa of the Washington Post says he's going to live tweet. He's going to be responding.

GUTFELD: He's just like us. This president is just like every -- he's the closest you get to the average. This is how we treat the Oscars, the Grammys. We live tweet something that is really boring in order to make it interesting and fun. Hugh is going to get bored watching the hearings so he's going to sit there and tweet. This is exactly what I do when I'm watching a "The Five" repeat. I'll sit there and I'll tweet. It's like a judge on "The Voice," you know, heckling one of the contestants.

PERINO: Or like when you watch the "Bachelorette."

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. Or it's a crazy version of "Mystery Science Theater."

WILLIAMS: All right, so Dana, The Wall Street Journal today says he should stop tweeting. I mean, this is self-destructive, to quote them. Do you think he should stop tweeting? Trump on the other hand says, "Fake mainstream media working so hard to get me to not use social media. They hate that I can get honest, unfiltered messages out."

PERINO: I actually think the media loves it. I don't think the media wants him to stop tweeting. I think that you have people especially behind the scenes that the source he believes that are on the staff or that is part of his legal team. They are hoping that he doesn't.

But I think that what we'll see is the ongoing reality show that is this testimony that's coming up on Thursday. I just feel like people are prejudging the outcome and they're over dramatizing the testimony before it even happens. Usually congressional hearings are very boring, but possibly not in this case and because Fox News will have live coverage from 9:00 to 12:00 special coverage

GUTFELD: Nice plug.

PERINO: -- and I'm going to join, I think Bret, Shannon, Bill Hemmer, Chris Wallace, maybe Tucker too.

GUTFELD: I'm going to be there.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Did I list everybody?

WILLIAMS: Oh my gosh, everybody is there.

GUILFOYLE: I think you got everybody actually. In fact, a few that were mentioned. So nice of you.

PERINO: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: I can't believe Greg says the hearings are going to be boring while Dana is going to be covering them. And that Greg watches repeats of "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: Yes, way to be a team player.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: I even watch here like, excessive waving, you know, extreme waving at the end.

PERINO: She doesn't miss a moment.

WILLIAMS: All right, we're out of time for this segment. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." Jesse.

WATTERS: Today we're going to honor the 73rd anniversary of D-Day. This was the Allied invasion of Normandy, France. June 6th, 1944, 150,000 troops from nine allied nations came across into that beach and that heavy resistance by the German forces and suffered I think 10,000 casualties. And it was a very, very, very important moment and turning point within World War II. And we're going to remember all of the people that lost their lives and sacrificed on this day for our freedom and Europe's freedom.

PERINO: Absolutely. Thank God for them.

GUILFOYLE: We thank them.

PERINO: All right, Greg.

GUTFELD: Greg's Hug News.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, let's do it.

GUTFELD: In yet another ceremony in L.A. that no one really knows what it is, Jerry Seinfeld is being interviewed when he is approached by a Kesha.

WILLIAMS: Kesha?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: -- people are tired most of the time.

KESHA, SINGER: I love you so much.

SEINFELD: Thanks.

KESHA: Can I give you a hug?

SEINFELD: No thanks.

KESHA: Please?

SEINFELD: No thanks.

KESHA: A little one.

SEINFELD: Yes, no thanks.

(LAUGHTER)

SEINFELD: I don't know who that was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was Kesha.

SEINFELD: OK. Well, I wish her the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: That has been the inaugural episode of hug news and probably the only hug news we will ever have.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I think there might be more. They made a graphic.

GUTFELD: It was fantastic. They made a graphic.

PERINO: All right -- they made a graphic. Earlier today I got to go to a company called Jigsaw, it's part of Alphabet. They are doing some amazing things, big range and scope. One of the things I have is a virtual reality room. So in this thing you're supposed to go up in an elevator and it feels like you are going up and then you're supposed to walk a plank and then jump off if you want.

GUILFOYLE: No way.

PERINO: Now, what they say is that only 50 percent of people actually go out on the plank. I managed to do that but only 20 percent jump. I did not jump.

GUTFELD: It's exciting watching people do it.

PERINO: No, it feels like that --

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: That's why it's safe. Also --

GUTFELD: This is reverse virtual reality.

PERINO: Also, a happy birthday to my husband. Peter McMahon who --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Happy Birthday, Peter.

PERINO: All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Legendary singer Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize in Literature last fall. But to get the money, about $900,000, he had to submit an acceptance speech and yesterday, the Nobel Foundation released the audiotape of the speech accompanied by some jazzy piano music. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BOB DYLAN, HALL OF FAMER: "Gulliver's Travels," "A Tale of Two Cities," all the rest. Typical grammar school reading. They give you a way of looking at life, an understanding of human nature and a standard to measure things by. I took all that with me when I started composing lyrics.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: It sounds like a college student pulling an all-nighter. He threw in everything. Don Quixote, Gulliver's Travels. But you know what, it's great because look, you have a folk musician admitting it was grade school reading that took him to the top. A perfect stay in school message.

PERINO: All right, KG.

GUILFOYLE: All right, so I have an important "One More Thing" tonight. It's a group that I work with called KultureCity. Some of you might have seen on my Twitter and my Instagram. They specialize in working with children with autistic and sensory needs. And working with KultureCity, the Cleveland Cavaliers have become the first sensory inclusive NBA franchise in the country.

And sensory inclusion means that simple modifications have been made to a venue that they play, for example, Quicken Loans Arena so that individuals with sensory needs like veterans coming back with PTSD and he can come to a game and actually enjoy it. I look forward to go in to their --

PERINO: It's awesome. That's a great thing that you do.

GUILFOYLE: A wonderful group.

PERINO: All right, set your DVR and never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.

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