This is a rush transcript from "The Fox News Specialists," May 25, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HEAD: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kat Timpf and Lisa Boothe who's filling in for Eboni K. Williams today. We are The Fox News Specialists. Well, some big developments in the terror and national security front today, President Trump ordering the justice department to go after information leaked by U.S. officials on the Manchester suicide bombing. The leaks causing U.K. officials to shut down intelligence sharing with the U.S. over the attack, fearing they jeopardize the race to hunt down a network of bombing co- conspirators with at least men now in custody and more raids underway.
Very quickly we'll talk to you, Kat. We've learned today the family of the Manchester bomber may have had substantial terror ties. Father, Ramadan, was allegedly affiliated with a group that was also affiliated with al Qaeda at one point. Ismail and Hashim, the brothers, planned to bomb a venue in Libya. And Salman himself had paramilitary training in Syria.
I'm going to tell you, if this has been going on for this many years why wasn't he in custody, right?
KATHERINE TIMPF, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: There's bad communication. And thankfully with NATO, they're going to try to improve their intelligence a little bit, so that's some good news coming out of Trump's discussion with NATO today. But this is a huge operation and it obviously is a very bad thing that the U.K. no longer feels comfortable sharing more information that they're learning with us because of these leaks.
BOLLING: Yeah, a couple of leaks. Also, Lisa, if you think President Trump is being too tough on terror and too tough on immigration and then you look overseas and see what's going on there, maybe you think twice about that.
LISA BOOTHE, THE FOX NEWS SPECIALIST HOST: Well, absolutely. I mean, we should think twice about it. But regarding the leaks, of course it's a big problem. This is something the DNI director Dan Coats testified this week.
It puts lives in jeopardy, puts lives at risk. And when you have an opportunity right now where President Trump is overseas trying to regain the trust of allies like Saudi Arabia and these Gulf States, as well as Israel, it hurts him to have these sorts of leaks. Because it hurts those relationships with other foreign leaders, as we're seeing with Britain, saying that they're no longer going to share some of this intelligence regarding the Manchester bombing.
BOLLING: You know, it seems at first in the movie, we will get to the specialists in one second, but it seems at first, Kat, that the leaks were meant to hurt Trump.
BOLLING: And now it feels like they're starting to really affect national security.
TIMPF: Absolutely. And that's why I have to wonder, what is the relationship with these leaks with the other leaks which were completely about Trump and Russia? Is it the same people or different people? If it's the same people, may be the narrative of that it was just to bring about -- excuse me, to bring down Trump, maybe that doesn't really work anymore. And also, these leaks, the information was correct, so do we need to take the other ones more seriously or not? We don't know until we know it's the same people or not.
BOLLING: Well, let's meet today specialist, he's a former Navy SEAL who completed over 400 missions, he's author of the best-selling book called, The Operator, and he's the man who killed the most wanted terrorist, Usama Bin Laden, yes, he specializes in killing terrorists, bad ass, Rob O'Neill is here. And she's got her start on MTV's Real World, she's married to Wisconsin Republican Congressman Sean Duffy, who she met on the set of Real World, and she's a Fox News contributor, but she specializes in kids, she's a mother of eight children, Rachel Campos-Duffy is here.
TIMPF: They're both heroes in their own right.
BOLLING: Rob, I'm going to go to you first. Lot's to unpack today, clearly terror the top story, top of the list. The man who shot -- you're the man who shot Usama Bin Laden. But did you hear over the weekend -- let's take a soundbite, listen to -- allegedly, he's now going to be the son of Usama Bin Laden heading up the Al Qaeda network. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Documents recovered from bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan revealed a mysterious and menacing new figure in Al Qaeda. He's youthful, angry, and he's Usama's son, now believe to be about 28. Intelligence analysts are paying close attention to recorded messages.
BIN LADEN’S SON: He's basically saying America and American people, we're coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right, Rob, another Bin Laden, more al Qaeda.
ROB O'NEIL FORMER NAVY SEAL: There's several bin Ladens out there, and we found a lot of intel on the Bin Laden's, Hamza Bin Landen, who was the son. What's interesting is that they were talking about whether or not he should be part of the leadership back in 2010, so a year before the raid. Osama Bin Laden actually encouraged him not to be part of -- to be successful don't be part of a jihad. The last thing Osama wanted was for Hamza to die in a drone strike, and actually hit him in Iran of all places. Strange bed fellows but they were in Iran. He decided himself he wanted to be part of it. He's got the brand, he's got the ideology.
BOLLING: I don't really even understand this as well. Tell us about Al Qaeda, is it shrinking or is it back in the.
O'NEILL: The way that I constantly describe Al Qaeda is like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall. We always underestimate what they're doing and we don't understand how deep their benches. They've got a lot of people.
They're always growing new people just like Hamza like I mention since 2010, they're trying to get him -- he wanted to be a leader. They brought him with senior leaders to Iran. They trained him up on it. He's got everything that they need. We are underestimating them. Same ideology as ISIS, they're the -- they're based on a version out of Saudi Arabia. But what ISIS does is they want -- the attack was someone blowing someone there. They stay in your home country and blow things up. Al Qaeda knows not to attack Turkey because that's the way in and they want to be hit. And, you know, we can't forget about them.
BOLLING: Let me bring Rachel. Rachel, we were touching on this at the top of the show. These leaks are very, very damaging to national security and we keep seeing it, and it's bigger and bigger. And now, people -- countries are saying or cities -- Manchester says we can't share with you right now because we're worried about your leaks.
RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. Kat is absolutely right. It's going beyond -- you know, this is hurting Donald Trump. This is hurting America. This is hurting our international and national security. And what I'm waiting to see is where are the Democrats, where are they leading -- and where's there charge for getting these leakers? Do they seem really concerned about it when it was Podesta's email? But now we have national security, people's lives at stake, not just, you know, political gossip that might bring down -- somebody who's going to go down anyway. So I think this -- we need to see leadership on -- not just from the White House, they need to get this. But we also need to see congress putting pressure to get these people. This is a treasonous act.
BOLLING: What about it, Lisa? Are the leaks coming from the intel departments?
BOOTHE: You know, I don't know, but obviously it's a problem. As I mention at the top of the show and as Rachel just eloquently mentioned, it's hurting our relationships with other countries. And I think at a time where we just saw what happened in Manchester, now is the time to have these trusting relationships with other countries for intelligence sharing purposes. So, this isn't just hurting the Trump administration which I think is the goal of the individuals who are sharing this information with reporters who are more than happy to carry that and report it, but it's also hurting our country at a really critical juncture where we are facing these threats with al Qaeda, we're facing these threats with ISIS and other terror-minded groups.
BOLLING: Your thoughts, Kat, on -- what do you do when you're President Trump and he's worried about leaks coming out of the White House. He's worried about leaks coming from the intel department. Look, there are a lot of people who don't like Donald Trump, but when you start leaking information that's affecting terror and our national security, it's a whole new ball game.
TIMPF: Absolutely, a whole new ballgame. They can't share this information with us. President Trump has every right to be upset about it.
But everybody should be upset about it. Absolutely, everybody should. I don't know who these people are. I don't know if they hate Trump so much that they hate him more than they love the country. Or if maybe they've just -- they've never had anyone pay attention to them in their lives and they want to see themselves in the newspaper and be like, I did that, and they just don't care if it hurts the country. But we need to look into these leaks, and I'm really curious to see if these are the same people or the same group as the earlier leaks mostly centered around Russia, and what would that say about those leaks if it was the same group of people?
BOLLING: So this all dovetails into the next part of this segment which is that Trump is trying to keep the country safe. He's trying to do what he thinks is in the best interest of keeping national security in check and keeping terrorism away from our shores, out of our country. The fourth circuit Court of Appeals today, making President Trump's ability to keep America safe that much harder today, in a 10-3 ruling the court upheld a nationwide block on his travel ban, temporary moratorium, actually, which targeted six terror plague countries. The case may now be headed for the Supreme Court. Let's talk about that for a second. Trump wants to keep -- let me -- I'm sorry, we'll bring it around. Let's start with Rob, your thoughts on this temporary moratorium on these six -- people from these six countries coming to America.
O'NEILL: The people coming to America, the problem right now with the leaks and everything like that is that we're seeing partisan politics at its worst, and President Trump proved with a lot of solidarity going to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, first, that it's not a Muslim ban. Muslim ban is brought up by people who want President Trump to fail. We need help from them to bring people in. The countries that we're not letting people come from, yes, they're primary Muslim but there's no embassies there. There is no way to vet people that come in. And the enemy has said to us, and they're not dumb people, they said to us before they will use our immigration system, they will use our welfare system until they have enough soldiers in the streets of America to bring blood to the streets. They said it. They're not lying to us.
BOLLING: Immigration and refugee system.
BOOTHE: And not to mention, the last time President Obama went to Saudi Arabia, the king did not even meet him at the airport. That's how badly strained that relationship was. But, look, all of this has been way overblown. We're literary talking about a very temporary pause from countries that were identified by the Obama administration and congress for travel restrictions. The idea that this is somehow a Muslim ban is asinine, considering the fact the three biggest Muslim populations are not even included in this temporary pause. So, I mean, the entire thing has gotten so over sensationalized, well, by the president critics.
TIMPF: I think that the possible good or help that this could do in stopping attacks is what overblown. Personally, there's not a single attack, a fatal attacks since 9/11 in this country that this ban would have prevented. Not a single instance. And if you look there's so many other threats. What are we going to do? Belgium? They have all these terrorist all there. We're going to ban people from Belgium? If you start there, where does it end up? We need to look at homegrown terrorism. We already have great communication -- go ahead.
BOLLING: Do you not think the world is becoming a more and more dangerous place as time goes?
TIMPF: I'm certain that it is. But so is these countries.
BOLLING: Further measures to make sure that danger as we see is exponentially growing in Europe. We make sure it doesn't happen here.
TIMPF: Well, we're very, very different from Europe. We have much better communication with different intelligence agencies. And also, Muslim immigrants integrate way better to our society than they do in Europe.
DUFFY: I would just say, Rob, made such a great point. I mean, we're talking about countries where there's no way to embassies, there's no way to vet who these people are. I turned on another network before I got on, just to get the temperature of what was being said out there. Sorry about that, fans out these. But they seemed gleeful about what -- this stop on the ban. And I just thought, God, they're so out of touch. People are seeing what's happening in Europe and the terrorist attacks, and they are on the side of Donald Trump. Donald Trump has the pulse on what common sense people want.
BOLLING: I'm sorry, Lisa, one second. Rob, ISIS has said themselves they will infiltrate our refugees.
BOLLING: They want to put fighters in.
O'NEILL: From Guantanamo Bay. They're telling us that's the plan. But Kat made a very good point, how Muslims come here and they assimilate into the society which is very, very true, and that's how were going to win. We're not going to win this by banning people and bombing people, but we need -- it's not the weapon. It's not the gun or the truck or the bomb, it's the ideology. We need help from the Muslims who sometimes are too afraid.
BOLLING: The man who took down bin Laden thinks it's OK to increase refugee immigration in the country, and to put a block on this travel ban.
O'NEILL: We're a great country because migrants come in. We're the melting pot. But they need to come here first, respect the constitution.
DUFFY: The problem is that right now we don't have a melting pot right now. We have a society that favors the salad bowl, the multicultural thing. We've lost the ability to assimilate people the way we use to in past generations, and that's got to be something we address in addition to the security.
TIMPF: People assimilating pretty well here. It's nothing like Europe with the terror cell issue. That is the fact.
DUFFY: But we're also falling into that. And let's be honest.
TIMPF: How? How are we falling into it? Has there been a terror attack recently?
DUFFY: If you have kids.
TIMPF: I do not have kids. I have a cat.
DUFFY: If your cat went to school, your cat would learn that they do not teach assimilation. They teach multiculturalism in our schools. It's always blame America first. Very few kids are learning their constitution.
TIMPF: I write all the time about college campuses and I agree with you. But I'm saying if you look at the end result of where these people are ending up, they're actually integrating very well to our society. Nothing like what's going on.
BOOTHE: But Sessions said -- I think he has mentioned at the time that they were 300 refugees that they're looking into for suspected terrorism, right. And we're also, again, talking about countries that are either safe harbors of terrorism or state sponsors of terrorism.
TIMPF: But don't let them in. Don't let terrorist in. That's them? Don't let them in.
BOLLING: We need to go. President Trump making a splash on his first NATO summit in Brussels, and already scoring a big foreign policy victory for America, about time. Don't go away.
TIMPF: President Trump coming out swinging at his first NATO summit in Brussels. The president, of course, has been a long-running critic of the alliance and he did not mince words today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have been very, very direct with Secretary Stoltenberg and members of the alliance in saying that NATO members must finally contribute their fair share and meet their financial obligations. If NATO countries made their full and complete contributions, then NATO would be even stronger than it is today, especially from the threat of terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIMPF: And amid the tough talk, President Trump also scoring a win with NATO agreeing to be beef up counterterrorism measures and expand its security role as he's been demanding, which is definitely a win, definitely a good thing. In terms of money, though, I don't know if I see them paying more because we pay so much. And let's be honest, especially with this administration, we're never going to cut the defense budget, so why would they pay more?
BOLLING: This is what -- and this is really honest here. It's a common mistake that a lot of people make. President Trump isn't asking anyone to pay more money to NATO. President Trump is saying that if you want to be in NATO, part of the agreement, the nonbinding treaty agreement, it says you have to spend only 2 percent of your own GDP on your own defense. You don't have to give it to NATO.
TIMPF: I understand that.
BOLLING: But my point is 23 out of the 28 nations aren't even doing that to protect themselves and that really is a misnomer. So you hear it on the left saying, oh, President Trump wants everyone to spend more money on NATO defense, enough. We're already -- one country, us, are responsible for 22 percent of the NATO budget. We're already doing everyone else our fair share and everyone else's. We're just demanding that if you're going to be part of NATO, you be able to defend yourself because in the event that we have to go to war for you because you picked a fight with someone else, you better be able to at least start to defend yourself and everyone else has to pitch in too.
DUFFY: Eric, can I just say, I watched that speech. I watched all those European leaders squirming, it's delicious to watch. That was not a speech. That was a campaign commercial for Trump. This is what people wanted him to do. And I just want to quote this because this is what NATO said that their pledges, they, quote, they commit to, quote, aim to move toward paying. I mean, this is -- I aim to move towards -- what could be more European? That means nothing. That means they have no intention of paying this, and it's embarrassing to them. Right in the midst of a huge terror attack where he's calling for NATO for them -- to do their fair share on NATO, to use NATO as counterterrorism, and I think it's embarrassing for them and they look weak, really weak.
TIMPF: I completely agree, Lisa, with the fact that we're paying our budget so huge and they're not paying their fair share. But is the tough talk going to be enough, especially when we're trying to hike our defense budget again.
BOOTHE: I think he's doing more than what President Obama was able to accomplish, in a sense that -- you know, what were the two things that President Trump talked on the campaign trail regarding NATO beside saying it's obsolete. But he said that they should focus more on terrorism which we heard that there is a new counterterrorism effort that NATO is going to be working on. And he also said that they should be paying more of their fair share which is what we've been talking about. You see someone like Angela Merkel who has committed to Germany paying more, and there was an article talking about how these NATO countries are putting together outlines and how they're going to try to meet these efforts and meet these commitments. Because as Eric has pointed out, 23 countries aren't.
DUFFY: It's also a win for the president because what this demonstrates that he's able to coordinate these nations to support U.S.-led efforts.
BOLLING: You bring up Merkel and during President Trump's speech when he's demanding them pay their -- no, he's looking around and they cut the camera and Merkel kind of leans over and looks over at Macron who is the new French president, neither one of them are paying their own 2 percent, and they're going, oh, oh. I'm curious to find out where she.
DUFFY: I mean, you're basically just being called out.
TIMPF: I want to get Rob in here. And you know, even if they did start paying more, we're not going to start spending less. We're never going to cut our defense budget.
O'NEILL: They're saying, let's have you pay more. It strikes me as odd because they love to be collectivists. This is called collective defense, article five of the Washington treaty. It's not -- it's pay 2 percent of your GDP. Now look who is paying, we're paying if the U.K. is paying it. Greece is paying it, I'm not sure their GDP is knocking out of the park, Estonia and Poland, because they know what happens when you don't. Everyone else -- France and Germany are kind of laughing at it.
BOLLING: The head of NATO is in Brussels, and they're not even meeting their 2 percent commitment.
DUFFY: That's the problem with collectivism, there's always freeloaders. I didn't just look at the president or the leaders that were there at that speech. I'm thinking about the parents that are home. The mothers and fathers whose safety depends -- of their children depend on NATO and on this security. And I just think, you know, Europe has to care more about their children safety than we do.
BOLLING: Here's honestly the point. The United States is NATO. Let's be honest. If any of these other countries go to war and we have to defend them, where is the vast majority of those military assets?
BOLLING: You're right. It's Montenegro. Guess where's -- those assets are coming -- they're coming out of our pockets.
O'NEILL: Everybody hates the sheepdog until the wolf shows up. They don't believe in the wolf.
TIMPF: When we come back, it's time to wake up, America. Eric Bolling is all fired up about the Montana body slamming drama around candidate Greg Gianforte. Don't miss it.
BOLLING: Welcome back to The Fox News Specialists. It's time to wake up, America. Yesterday, on the eve of a special election for Montana's sole congressional seat, the front-runner, Republican candidate Greg Gianforte did this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG GIANFORTE, CONGRESSMAN-ELECT, R-MONTANA: I'm sick and tired of you guys, (BLEEP) did the same thing. Get the hell out of here. Get the hell out of here. The last guy did the same thing. Are you with The Guardian?
BEN JACOBS, GUARDIAN REPORTER: Yes, and you just broke my glasses.
GIANFORTE: You, last night did the same damn thing.
JACOBS: You're just body slamming, you broke my glasses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Well, let's start with, it's not OK to put your hands on a journalist. It's not OK even if this journalist is being really unbearably annoying which he probably was. Make no mistake. I'm not condoning Gianforte's actions, but what's also not OK is the liberal media rushing immediately to their predictable conclusion it's Trump's fault. Within minutes of that audiotape release, the mainstream media were ranting away at how somehow Trump was responsible. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN AVLON, JOURNALIST: It's about creating an atmosphere consciously stroking those fires of fear and anger and resentment. And this isn't subtle. This is, again, the president of the United States calling the press, the, quote, enemy of the American people.
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: This is not a big leap from what the head of the Republican Party is saying every day and what happened last night in Montana.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Horrible people. They're the enemy of the American people. If you think that that doesn't have anything to do with it, then you are sadly, sadly mistaken my friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Come on, guys. You know better than to blame Trump for something some loose cannon in Montana did. Joan Dunn, your good friends and mine for a long time, you can't honestly think Trump is at fault or can you?
The man was 5,000 miles away in Europe. You're better than that. Besides being a bit overzealous, anti-Trump rhetoric, you guys are leaders in the eyes of many liberal journalists. They take their cues from you, and blow it up a hundred times worse. Being against Trump in the New York Times newsroom is a badge of honor. So anything they can blame on Trump, they will and they do. And over at the Washington Post, the story doesn't even need to be vetted before they post anti-Trump news, real or fake. The hypocrisy in the mainstream media is extraordinary. Do they blame Obama when Bowe Bergdahl defected by walking away from his base in Afghanistan? Or for the six soldiers who may have died while looking for Bergdahl?
Did they blame Bill Clinton for the -- let's just say -- indiscreet activity that took place during his years in office? No, they didn't.
So stop treating Trump differently. He's the commander in chief. Respect the man or, at the very least, muster up the character to respect the office. Now is a good time to start.
Let's start with you, Mr. O'Neill over there in the corner. You happen to know a little thing or two about Montana.
O'NEILL: Yes, I'm from Montana, Butte, Montana, right where this happened.
I'm familiar with the race. It wasn't making any headlines at all, because President Trump won in Montana by, I think, plus 20 points. And this -- you know, the guy he's running against is all about the environment, all the stuff.
All of a sudden, what happened there in Montana, apparently the snowflake reporter invaded Gianforte's safe space. And we have a saying up there, you know, you mess around, you mess around, you might not be around.
And I'm not saying, you know -- I have a history with these guys. When the bin Laden story came out, these guys kind of bum-rushed my father, and they got him to say some stuff. He didn't know what "on the record," "off the record."
BOLLING: "The Guardian"?
O'NEILL: I believe it was "The Guardian." If I'm wrong, same tactics. It's the same ambush tactics. And granted, I'm not condoning the body- slam. I think it's kind of funny from -- based on my history. But you know, you try to mess with it, sometimes you'll get -- you'll get the bull's horns in Montana.
BOLLING: Rachel, somehow the -- this became Trump's fault.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: Yes, I mean, it's crazy, right? As you say, he's 5,000 miles away.
But also, I think we need to step back. I'm also the wife of a politician. I know how -- the tactics that the left uses on -- on these members. My kids have been followed. We had a congressman just the other day get run off the road by an overzealous tea -- town hall person.
So I think that they're on edge, as well. I mean, and this was not a reporter looking for a fair story. He was obviously doing a take-down on him. And so he -- this guy has got his backup. He got a little bit of Montana justice.
BOOTHE: I've dealt with aggressive reporters on the campaign trail. I can recall one who literally blocked the candidate that I was working for's door so he could not go anywhere, and I could not get to him, which is very aggressive.
But I just think it's laughable for the left to try to blame President Trump. Where have they been when one, Debbie Wasserman Schultz essentially threatened the chief of Capitol Police the other day? Where have they been, as you mentioned, when someone tried to run a Republican congressman off the road because of health care? Another guy pushed a member of Congress in North Dakota. Martha McSally has received death threats. Where has the left been there? Betsy DeVos was literally blocked from entering a public school building.
BOLLING: So you're saying...
BOOTHE: On Inauguration Day, a car was blown up, basically, set on fire. Buildings were broken into. Where was the left then?
BOLLING: You're suggesting it's because Gianforte was a -- is a Republican and not because...
BOOTHE: I see that this is all politically motivated...
BOLLING: ... there's a Republican in office?
BOOTHE: ... by the left. It's the night before a special election. They want to win the race. They're going to gin this up the most they can, and of course, the media is going to do their bidding.
TIMPF: You don't have to gin it up very much when a guy before the election beats up a reporter in front of other reporters. Everyone is going to want to talk about that.
BOOTHE: I thought that's how you resolve difference.
TIMPF: Because it's like, are you serious, bro? Are you serious right now?
O'NEILL: This is going to be so interesting.
TIMPF: But what if he -- if he doesn't win because of this -- maybe he'll win because of this -- maybe think about this: reality TV show. Everyone is going to want a reality TV show with the dude who punched out the reporter. Crazy.
BOLLING: Hold on.
O'NEILL: I've been talking to people in Montana since this happened. And there are Republicans changing sides because this happened. There are actually Democrats changing sides because it happened. It's going to be interesting.
BOLLING: It's going to be a wash. Can we point out that 70 percent of the ballots had been -- had been sent in, pre-mailed prior to the incident?
BOOTHE: And slacking off the last semester.
BOLLING: So you're in -- you're going to be in a situation, Kat, where he will -- Gianforte will probably win, and then what do you do in Congress? What do you do in the halls of Congress when a guy who has literally been arrested for assault is your member being sent to Congress?
TIMPF: You put reality TV cameras on him. That's what you do.
TIMPF: MTV should be all over this.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: And he just raised $100,000.
BOOTHE: But I also think there's a police investigation. So let's sort of wait, see what happens with this. Obviously, the voters are going to have their say.
But you guys remember the Corey Lewandowski thing. It all -- it blew up, and then you watch the video. It wasn't the story that was originally being told.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: That's right.
BOOTHE: Let's see what happens with all this. Obviously, you do not body- slam someone.
TIMPF: We know what happened.
BOLLING: But we -- we had a -- we had a FOX crew, a reporter, a camera crew who witnessed the whole thing. It did -- I'm laughing, because I'm not condoning it.
BOOTHE: No, it's not -- yes.
BOLLING: I think the guy was wrong. I think that Republican was completely...
BOOTHE: I mean, I have three brothers, so this is how work resolve their differences, to me.
BOLLING: ... completely -- he shouldn't have done what he did. My whole issue in that whole monologue was about you can't blame Trump for this. Quick thought?
O'NEILL: Well, no. Absolutely not. And I think that Gianforte needs to hire better security, because that guy shouldn't get that close to him.
BOOTHE: Actually, a very good point.
BOLLING: Very good point. All right. Let's leave it there. A stunning new poll reveals what Americans really think about the mainstream media, fake news. We're coming right back.
BOOTHE: Welcome back to "The Fox News Specialists." I am Lisa Boothe, in for Eboni K. Williams. Our specialists today are Rob O'Neill and Rachel Campos-Duffy. Let's continue the conversation.
According to a new poll from Harvard University, 65 percent of American voters think that there is a lot of fake news in the mainstream media. That includes 80 percent of Republicans, 60 percent of independents and 53 percent of Democrats. But 35 percent of voters overall do not agree. Rachel, what do you think of this -- this survey?
CAMPOS-DUFFY: Well, I think it's probably pretty accurate. I mean, I can tell you where I live, people are very savvy. And I think overall, we can look at the last election. The media was absolutely 100 percent in the tank for Hillary Clinton, and Trump still won.
And they don't just have the -- the left doesn't just have the mainstream media. They also have powerful pop culture. We saw even last week Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize for humanizing Trump, which is a really weird thing.
So I think that the American people are smart. They get it, and they don't see this as just an attack on Donald Trump. They see it as an attack on them. They voted. They don't believe in do-overs of the election. They see that the left, the media, the "never Trumpers" and the deep state are trying to undo their election. And they're mad about it. I can tell you, I live in middle America. I -- it's not working on them. It's having the opposite effect.
TIMPF: Let me jump in real quick, though. They don't see it as an attack on Donald Trump, because the same survey found that 60 percent of American voters think that Donald Trump is unfair to the media; and only 48 percent thought that the media was unfair of Donald Trump.
So I'm not saying that there's no distrust of the media. Obviously, there is. But I think we're in a time where we've been lied to so many times by so many different institutions that nobody trusts anybody anymore. That's a bad thing, but you know, independent thinking is always good. WE can have more of that in the world.
BOLLING: I'll tell you what...
TIMPF: The poll said otherwise. The same poll said 60 percent think that Trump is not being fair to the media.
BOLLING: Last week was very, very damaging to the mainstream media. We had Washington -- we had New York Times come out with a story on one day, and The Washington Post -- I'm sorry, Washington Post first day; New York Times the second day.
The Washington Post story was that Donald Trump turned over classified information to Lavrov and Kislyak in the meeting. The information happened to be commonly known information, and by the way, he's allowed to declassify information. That was a blow to The Washington Post. You know, their -- freedom of the republic dies in the dark? Well, guess what? You -- they brought fake news.
The very next day, The New York Times had another story that they basically did the same thing. So when the paper of record and The Washington Post, two publications that people really rely on to have real news and real researched news and journalistic standards, blew it last week, badly.
BOOTHE: And regarding that, in this survey, as well, 74 percent of Americans believe that the leaks are a serious matter, and even 84 percent of Democrats, as well. So it looks like everyone is on board with that issue.
But I want to get you in here, because you're not in the political system. So what's your take on sort of this dynamic between the president, the media and the way that the media is covering the president?
O'NEILL: I think somewhere along the way we've lost the importance of honesty over fairness. I mean, Kat made a good point. Who's being fair with whom?
TIMPF: Is fairness a thing?
O'NEILL: But you need to be honest. I've talked to a lot of my friends who are still in the military, still in the Intelligence Department, and they just can't believe the fake news that came out about former Director Comey. One day he's the hero because he did this, because he didn't charge someone with something. The next day he's bad because he did this. And then it's like they're just reporting on what they want, and it's all a part of political correctness and politics, both the same thing.
It's like -- it's who's going to get the -- who's going to get the better story? What's going to push my personal agenda? And somewhere way back here is honesty and the greater good of the country.
BOLLING: One of the biggest damaging things that's going on right now in -- in the mainstream media is they're leaking all these stories. They're printing all these stories on the basis of anonymous sources. They'll have two and three and four anonymous sources, and they won't say who it is.
And then we find out days later that, well, that wasn't really exactly what was happening. And so they're undermining their own credibility. If you have a source, name your source or don't run with it.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: But the other person to undermine their credibility was Donald Trump. I mean, Donald Trump very early on was the first and strongest candidate we've ever seen to call them out when they were unfair, when they were doing things that were not -- were not honest, and when there was fake news.
And so I think what we're going to see here is that, you know, they put all their eggs in this Russia basket, Eric. When this turns out to not be something, they're going to further erode their credibility.
And by the way, they're also focusing so much on Russia on the left that they're never going to figure out why they lost Wisconsin.
TIMPF: I think that's true -- I think that's true for the people that support Trump. I think that's maybe the reason why a lot of people support Trump.
But there are a lot of people who say, "Hey, yes, maybe the media is biased," but they still -- it's the slant that they agree with, so they still do trust it and they still do listen to it.
And the Russia thing, we still don't know yet what's actually going to happen. We still don't know if something is going to happen or not.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: Newspapers are used in bird cages.
BOOTHE: We can carry this conversation during the break. We've got to go.
And up next, Dr. Ben Carson calls poverty a state of mind, and the left is absolutely losing it. Stay tuned.
TIMPF: Dr. Ben Carson, the secretary of Housing and Urban Development sparking all kinds of outrage on the left for saying this about poverty during an interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BEN CARSON, SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: I think poverty, to a large extent, is also a state of mind. You take somebody who has the right mindset, you can take everything from them and put them on the street and I guarantee you in a little while, they'll be right back up there. And you take somebody with the wrong mindset, you can give them everything in the world. They'll work their way back down to the bottom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIMPF: Not a message of self-improvement and personal responsibility! How dare he, right?
No, OK, Ben Carson has a way of speaking in a way where maybe it doesn't sound as sensitive or could have, should have. It's clear what he meant. Obviously, there's people in circumstances that can't get out of and are tough, but attitude does have a lot to do with it. I don't think that if you say you can, then you can, because sometimes you say you can and you don't. But if you say you can't, you can't. That's true, because you're not even going to try. Stop being a victim. It's disgusting, and it's about time someone said something about it. What do you think?
BOOTHE: I don't disagree at all. And look, I think for Dr. Ben Carson, this is a guy who has lived this. Right? So...
BOOTHE: ... for people that are being critical of what he said, this is someone who has experienced this firsthand, who overcame poverty to become a renowned neurosurgeon and then also a presidential candidate. So I mean, I think this is someone who has a credible voice to lend here. And so for those critics, you know, if you haven't lived it, shut up, maybe.
BOLLING: And let -- can we just point out that Dr. Ben Carson started out in Detroit. He was born to an Army vet father and a Baptist minister mother mother. He did, he did. He came up from the bottom. He worked his way up. And we all know -- at least I love Dr. Ben Carson. I love Ben Carson.
TIMPF: I do, too. I really do.
BOLLING: But of course, the left twists it. And what his message was, you have the right attitude, America gives you ample opportunity to succeed. And he's living embodiment of that.
TIMPF: He said "also." He didn't say that's the only thing. He said also, obviously, a good attitude helps.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: Absolutely. His mother had a third-grade education. He's now, you know, a famous neurosurgeon. Now he's the secretary of HUD. This is a message of empowerment.
He said the main message that his mom -- his mom, with a third-grade education -- said, "You are not a victim." And I love that message because with the left wants -- and by the way, the Black -- the Congressional Black Caucus is full of people whose careers are made by telling people that they are victims.
This is a different message. This was about empowerment. This was about telling people, "We're not going to make you comfortable in your poverty. We're going to, as government, provide ladders of opportunity for you to rise out of poverty. I'm passionate about this, because this is my family's story. And I'm sitting here today because there's an American dream."
And what they want to tell you is the dream is not alive; the dream is dead, because if the dream is dead and you can't lift yourself up, guess what? You need them.
BOLLING: You need government. You need bigger government.
TIMPF: What do you think, Rob? You going to agree or are you going to call him a jerk?
O'NEILL: I agree. I don't know what it's like to grow up in poverty like that, but I was a white guy from Montana who couldn't swim, and I became a Navy SEAL and ended up in bin Laden's bedroom. It doesn't matter what you look like.
BOLLING: For the right reasons.
O'NEILL: If you work hard and stay positive and never quit, you can do anything you want. And we've proved that. And like, one of the mottos I had, or that I was told by an instructor, was when you feel like quitting, which you will, don't quit now. Quit tomorrow.
BOLLING: Hey, man, you couldn't swim, but you had damn good aim.
O'NEILL: If they'd sent me after bin Laden with a five-iron, I probably wouldn't have missed.
TIMPF: Absolutely. Got to get to the next one real quick.
So you do remember those hordes of Middlebury College kids who shut down a conservative writer from speaking in March?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIMPF: The college is now taking brutal disciplinary action against these 67 students for causing the chaos. Just kidding. They're all getting slaps on the wrist. Most are getting probation. Another handful are getting a mean note on their permanent record. That will show them, right?
CAMPOS-DUFFY: My kids get worse punishments when I put them on timeout for 5 minutes. This is ridiculous. This is crazy.
They grabbed a woman by the hair, pulled her back. She ended up in the hospital with -- I mean, this -- they really have a problem on these campuses. And look for Congress and federal government to start to take back the funds, the federal funds for those who deny students their right to hear different points of view.
TIMPF: This is the -- people were getting physically violent. This is saying we don't know if these were students or not students. They couldn't identify them. People are getting that hurt and can't move around, you kind of try a little harder, I think.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: And Kat, they're going to get away with it. If you look at these college campuses, who's in charge? It's liberals. It's liberals from the administration point of view, the professors, as well. So they condone this behavior, because they don't agree with the speech of the guests, the conservatives that are going on campus who are being shut down. So that's the problem here.
And fortunately, there are groups out there trying to make changes. There's websites like ProfessorWatchlist.org that specifically, you know, exploit and target these professors that, you know, engage in this sort of behavior.
TIMPF: Yes, and I hate when they say a demonstrator pulled someone's hair. If you're pulling someone's hair, you're now an assailant.
O'NEILL: Or you're running for Congress in Montana.
TIMPF: Was there hair pulling?
O'NEILL: I'm not sure. We couldn't hear anything. I'm sure it was brutal. He broke his glasses. That's just what happens when I pull someone's hair.
TIMPF: Eric, what do you think?
BOLLING: I think it's a story that we've done for the last ten years, and were going to continue to do it. And I hope or I thought, with President Trump coming in and putting kind of a quash, a squash on the PC culture, it -- apparently it thrives in academia.
CAMPOS-DUFFY: Money talks, money talks. If we -- if we withhold the funds, the federal funds from these universities, kind of stuff, I think we'll see action.
TIMPF: All right, cool. All right. Straight ahead, we "Circle Back" with our specialists, Rachel Campos-Duffy and Rob O'Neill, right after this.
BOOTHE: Time to "Circle Back" with our specialists, Rob O'Neill and Rachel Campos-Duffy.
So Rachel, we had a conversation one time. And I'd just gotten my puppy, and I was talking about how tired I was. And then you looked at me. And I realize that, you know, know your audience. You have eight kids, so clearly, you know a thing or two about being tired. How do you juggle it all with eight kids?
CAMPOS-DUFFY: You know how much you love your puppy? Like multiply it by a hundred, and then it makes it a lot easier.
TIMPF: I know. She loves that dog a lot. She really does.
BOLLING: I might "Circle Back" in a little bit of a different direction. Rob O'Neill, tell us about double tap. Can you define what it is? Did you employ that tactic? And did that cockroach say anything to you as he died?
O'NEILL: No, nothing. There was nothing said. A double tap the way we use it in our SEAL team was two shots to the head. And the reason we did that was because we're dealing with suicide bombers. I've dealt with them before. I talk about it in my book, "The Operator." It's very fast. It's very loud and permanent. If someone is a potential suicide bomber, you take them out in the head, and that's what happened.
BOLLING: And no sound came from him after that.
TIMPF: Rob, I want to talk to you about something that we've talked about on the "Gutfeld Show" already, where you get tweeted at by bin Laden's son.
O'NEILL: We sort of did. It came from some of the Taliban guys, but they definitely had him in mind. Still looking for the handle for you.
TIMPF: Yes, it's like I feel bad. People tweet me mean things all day long. But normally they're like, you know, "Your arms are too skinny. You're annoying." But they're not, like, people from ISIS telling me that. So now I'm very grateful.
BOOTHE: This is the lesson to not mess with you. You think you'd be the last person anyone should mess with.
O'NEILL: I'm just saying they do switch their handles. They come out. I'm still trying to find out, but they're very crafty with the whole social media thing. But you're the first one that I will tweet when I get the...
TIMPF: Just tweeting. It's crazy.
BOLLING: Rob, don't tag me on any...
TIMPF: Don't get me involved in that. Sorry.
BOOTHE: All right. Well, thank you to our Fox News Specialists here today, Rob O'Neill and Rachel Campos-Duffy.
And thank you to everyone for letting me be here today, in for Eboni Williams. And thank you to everyone for watching. Make sure to follow the show on social media, @SpecialistsFNC, on Twitter and on Facebook. And remember, 5 o'clock will never be the same. "Special Report" is next.
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