Rep. Kinzinger: You do diplomacy from a position of strength
Congress to weigh new sanctions on North Korea; congressman speaks out on 'The Story'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," May 1, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have to be prepared to do what we have to do. We can't allow this to go on. Nobody's safe. I mean, who's safe? The guy has got nuclear weapons or 28,000 troops on the line, and they're right there. And - so, nobody's safe. We're probably not safe over here. He gets the long-range missiles, we are not safe either.
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MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: The President gets blowback after saying he would consider talking to Kim Jong-un. As the North Korean dictator threatens a nuclear test next time, "At any time, and any location," said Kim Jong-un. The White House's movement tells a story. Another missile launch swiftly followed by a surprise visit to North Korea by the CIA Director, Mike Pompeo. The latest to sweep in to show support while the neighbor to the north fires a barrage of missiles, while the President has worked his side of the pressure here at home. Good evening, everybody. It is May 1st, 2017, and this is "The Story."
This high-intensity diplomacy that we are seeing aimed at corralling allies, isolating the dictator that the President now says he would be willing to talk to "under certain circumstances." Today, one of three Americans who was imprisoned in North Korea, Otto Warmbier's parents, spoke out for the first time.
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FRED WARMBIER, OTTO WARMBIER'S FATHER: Nothing Otto may or may not have done in North Korea rises to this level of punishment. And Cindy and I have made the decision that this is less about Otto now than it is about the bigger picture, the tensions between North Korea and the United States.
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MACCALLUM: Yes. Right, he is. And these three individuals are being held, no doubt, their fate is on the President's mind as he weighs all of this. And the world watches for the next move. I'm joined tonight by Republican Congressman, Adam Kinzinger, who is a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and is a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. This is a complex web that has been woven here, Adam. Where are we in it right now?
REP. ADAM KINZINGER, R-ILL.: Well, it's - so, it's new for people because if you think about it for the last eight years, we didn't hear President Obama talked much about this, despite, you know, when he met with President Trump as the transition was happening, saying this was going to be his biggest challenge. And so, now, what you are seeing is actually an aggressive administration. And you're seeing the dance between military posturing and a credible military threat in order to use the diplomatic instrument and power to hopefully get to a peaceful solution.
So, it's confusing for some people that on the one hand, see the President say, you know, we're ready to strike if we need to. And then, on the other hand, say, he's willing to meet, that's how this diplomacy works. It's trying to use pressure to bring the dictator to the table and get rid of his nukes. So, I think this is actually, frankly, a pretty positive sign but you're - the sound you played, you're right, these hostages are being used as bargaining chips.
MACCALLUM: All right. So, what happens in terms of Congress? Tonight, they were supposed to be a vote on whether to step up the sanctions against North Korea. Why was that delayed? And is it going to happen tomorrow?
KINZINGER: Yes, I think it's just delayed as a calendar issue. We're going to do it tomorrow. And this will give much more flexibility. The sanctions, there's a lot of loopholes in the current sanctions regime from coal imports, iron imports, fishing rights, this like that. This will strengthen that. So, it will make it more powerful from the U.S. level. Secretary Tillerson, when he briefed us, made it clear. We're going to work to get our allies and even adversaries on this bandwagon. It's going to be a very long process but this is how you do diplomacy, you do it from a position of strength, not for my position of, we're going to show up and beg you to play the game with us because it won't.
MACCALLUM: All right. The President said some things that some people thought were kind of weird. He said he'd be honored to meet him. He called them a pretty smart cookie. Sounded even slightly sympathetic, I guess, in some ways or empathetic about a 27-year-old who takes over the leadership of his country. What do you make of those comments?
KINZINGER: Well, I think what you're seeing as a President that's trying to give the show a stick and to show the carrot. The stick is, hey, we've got aircraft carriers. We have 25,000 troops, we have 40,000 in Japan, we have the THAAD missile system. We're ready to take action. The carrot is, hey, I'm willing when the time is right, not now, I'm willing to meet with the dictator in order to try to get some kind of solution. I wish he wouldn't have used the term honored. He probably regrets using that, but I think the broader point is, when the time is right for talks, we'll do it. That time's not now and when we have to see the willingness from North Korea to be willing to give up their nuclear weapons or we're going to continue down this path.
MACCALLUM: Congressman, thank you. Good to see you tonight. Here now is David Bossie, former Deputy Manager of the Trump campaign; Marie Harf, former State Department Spokesperson, both they're Fox News Contributors. We to both of you. Maria, let me start with you. We talked about those comments, "pretty smart cookie," he'd be honored you said to meet with him at some point. Maybe Congressman Kinzinger's right that, you know, that word wasn't exactly the word he would be used if he'd say it again. But how is that red by the North Koreans?
MARIE HARF, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, it remains to be seen how it's heard by the North Koreans. But what I'm concerned about is that given some of the language President Trump used, I'm not sure that was a strategic policy position that had been talked out among his advisors, among the experts in his administration who know North Korea. There's so much rhetoric coming out of President Trump that I don't know how it's being seen by the North Koreans.
I do know that some of the rhetoric is being seen pretty negatively by the South Koreans, who in the last week, have been told they're going to have to pay for the missile defense, have been threatened with renegotiating the free trade agreements that we have in place. I've actually heard from some Republicans on the hill that they want President Trump to stop that kind of language, too. That we really need to reassure South Korea right now because this is such a complicated, intense situation.
MACCALLUM: Well, I mean, they've sort of been honoring a lot of guests from the United States. The Top Tier of this administration has personally visited them over the past couple of months, David.
DAVID BOSSIE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN DEPUTY MANAGER: They have. And I think-you know, the era of strategic patience is over, as the President has said. Doing something new, the status quo has been broken for a long time. As it relates to North Korea. If you look at what President Obama did or didn't do in dealing with this incredible danger, this didn't just happen and the last 100 days that President Trump has been there. His policy of peace through strength, of showing the carrot and the stick, as Congressman Kinzinger was just talking about, he was exactly right. The psychological gamesmanship that goes along with the diplomacy that goes along with the military maneuvering is all part of what we need to do to get this under control.
MACCALLUM: You know Donald Trump well, you work on my campaign very closely with him. So, when you see all this when you see the ships moving closer to North Korea when you hear him say things like, "I'd be honored to meet with him," or at the right time or place, we should sit down and talk, what's happening?
BOSSIE: I think he is, he is speaking from the heart. He's also getting briefed. I think Marie points out, he's getting the daily, the daily intelligence brief now. He has the best of the best on this issue in North Korea that's going on. And he's listening to them and he's making his own decisions. Nobody else makes decisions but President Trump.
MACCALLUM: What I'm saying is he trying to play Kim Jong-un? He knows he's hearing these words? Is he trying to make it seem, you know, as Putin when he talked about Putin on the campaign trail, he said sort of similar sounding things. Is that the dynamic care?
BOSSIE: He is doing that. He is trying to work with the President of China, President Xi, to try to bring some influence from the China side of the equation. I think that's one of the things that President Trump is doing, unlike the prior administrations where he's actively engaged. And that can only be good for the United States. We have to solve this problem, not kick the can down the road.
MACCALLUM: I hear what you're saying. Marie, I thought it was interesting today, watching some of the other networks talk about these comments that President Trump made about being willing to talk to Kim Jong-un. And so many people were outraged from the prior administration. But you look back at what President Obama said about when he was questioned, you know, would you sit down with leaders from places like Iran, North Korea? And here's what he said. He said the notion that somehow not talking to countries is a punishment to them, which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration, is ridiculous. So, is that criticism unfair?
HARF: I think it is unfair. I actually was glad to see that President Trump seemed to give diplomacy some credibility here by saying he was willing to sit down with the leader of North Korea under the right conditions. I actually thought that was a good sign, that maybe showed we weren't quite as close to military conflict than some people have thought. What I just want to make sure is that there's strategy underpinning. Everything Donald Trump says publicly, that he does things to reassure our allies. And at the end of the day, they know what the goal is here.
If - look, if he can get China to put more pressure on North Korea, I would fully support that because the Chinese haven't been putting the kind of pressure they actually could if they wanted to. I would support that. And look, the fact that I think there's some room for diplomacy here, from a former State Department Officer, is not a bad thing. I just want to make sure it plays out in the right way.
MACCALLUM: All right. Marie, thank you. David, thank you.
HARF: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you both. So, coming up next here, after a string of recent murders, local police in New York are now asking for state help to fight against the violent MS-13 gang. Mark Fuhrman and Eric Guster here on the next discussion about how effective a task force is against brutality like this. And a stunning new report about what's truly behind Hillary Clinton's election night lost. Wait till you hear Democrats did a study of this and now, they know, why they lost. Mo Elleithee is here, Karl Rove is here to break it down. And today also marks an anniversary that none of us will ever forget: the death of Osama Bin Laden. Navy SEAL, Rob O'Neill, the man who fired the fatal shot at the man on the left is here to tell his great story about that night when we come back.
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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT: The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat Al Qaeda.
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JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Ms-13's motto is kill, rape, and control. Our motto is going to be just as for victims and consequences for criminals.
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MACCALLUM: Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, delivering that speech on Long Island where several bodies of victims believe to have been killed by gang members were found last month. New York State Police are forming a task force to combat the gangs. Some 200 miles to the south, you've got Baltimore's Mayor now asking for help from the FBI to help as their murder rate soars. Violent crime up 23 percent this year. So, here now with the look at how federal and state law enforcement are being asked to step into Stanley's violent crime waves. Trace Gallagher joins us now from our West Coast Newsroom.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, not only does MS-13 specialize in murder, their tactics are so gruesome, investigators can easily identify their signature kills, including a string of recent homicides on Long Island that involved multiple teenage boys and girls. Ms-13 originated in El Salvador, became prominent in Los Angeles and is now overrunning parts of New York where police say, a recent uptick in violence is related to the arrival of dozens of ms-13 members from Central America. The gang has even drawn the notice of President Trump. Watch.
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TRUMP: A very respected general recently told me that MS-13 are the equivalent in their meanness to Al Qaeda.
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GALLAGHER: Which is why Mexico's Sinaloa Drug Cartel recruits MS-13 members as enforcers. The new unit of the New York State Police will combat MS-13 by trying to stop the gang from preying on young immigrants who come here illegally and alone. Police acknowledge it'll be a long-term war with a revolving door. In March, an MS-13 member who'd been deported four times was arrested for sexually assaulting a 2-year-old girl.
In Baltimore, for the first time in two decades, the city reported 100 murders before the end of April. Right now, the number stands at 108, and summer is traditionally the most violent season. Baltimore Mayor, Catherine Pugh, is now asking for more help from the FBI, as well as ATF. This week in Baltimore, the feds will begin using a Mobile National Integrated Ballistic Information Network, a fancy name for a van that collects firearm-related evidence at crime scenes and uses it to trace guns and tracked down killers. Critics are unsure if more FBI and ATF agents will help stop the bloodshed in Baltimore, but the Mayor says, she does not have time to waste. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you. Here with more, Eric Guster, an Attorney and Political Commentator; and joining us by phone, Mark Fuhrman, a former LAPD Detective and Fox News Contributor. Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you here. Eric, let me start with you, when you hear about these task force, more FBI, for the MS-13 gang, does that sound like a good way to go here?
ERIC GUSTER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND ATTORNEY: It definitely sounds like a good way to go. It's very important for the government to utilize its resources to keep all of us safe, whether it is MS-13, whether it's the regular gang members, as we know traditionally, whether its skinheads, or white supremacist, whoever is doing violent things against people is very important for the government to use its resources to stop them. MS-13 and other gangs, they prey upon young people. They prey upon their, their vulnerabilities. And that's what they do, they recruit these people to do horrible, horrible things because they know that these young people don't have any way to go. So, it's very important for the government to stop it, stop it in its tracks.
MACCALLUM: All right. Well, let me ask you this, Eric. So, are you in favor of more law enforcement, more police presence on the street in Baltimore and in Chicago to take care of murders there, as well?
GUSTER: There has to be something done. I believe community policing is one of the most important things that the police officers can do in dealing with gun murders as well as other violent murders, because policing is very important and that they must have the trust of the community, trust of the people who can tell them who's doing things, and then they can prevent these things from happening. A police presence can definitely help, but we have to have infiltration into the minds and the mindset of these people who live in these various communities.
MACCALLUM: All right. Let's play this sound bite from the President talking about this issue in Harrisburg over the weekend. Let's watch.
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TRUMP: We'll build a wall, folks. Don't even worry about it. And if the Democrats knew what the hell they were doing, they'd approve it so easy because we want to stop crime in our country. Obviously, they don't mind illegals coming in. They don't mind drugs pouring in. They don't mind - excuse me, MS-13 coming in. We're getting them all out of here.
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MACCALLUM: Mark Fuhrman, has this been a political problem, as Donald Trump suggests?
MARK FUHRMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR (via phone): Well, I think, Martha, I think it's become a political problem because it was really ignored for about a decade. The proactive type of law enforcement became reactive and that gave gangs like MS-13 an opportunity to get a foothold and to actually grow, and actually have really a kind of a crime syndicate which they've actually established.
MACCALLUM: So, are you saying that you know, because we talk so much about crime in inner cities, and then you've got this MS-13 gang that has grown just astronomically. 42 states, there are 30,000 of them. And it seems like, you know, there are different prescriptions for different kinds of crime in these cities. But it feels like law enforcement and many of our cities, Mark, has sort of felt the need to step back, given what we've watched happen in this country over the last couple of years. Are you suggesting that because of that, it's created a vacuum for groups like MS- 13?
FUHRMAN: Absolutely. When you have managers or police chiefs or mayors, when you have them give directives to not be proactive, in other words, don't go out and interact with the criminal element before they commit a crime, in other words, you be reactive, wait until they commit a crime and hope he can arrest them for that crime, you actually give gangs the upper hand. When you have this task force that New York and Baltimore is trying to establish, the federal task force portion of this is great. It's a great opportunity to get manpower, legal surveillance, equipment, aircraft, money, but you need to the officer at the lowest level, the detectives, and all the people that work in these communities to actually give them the information that they need.
MACCALLUM: Gentlemen, thank you. We've got to leave it there. Eric Guster and Mark Fuhrman, good to speak with you both tonight.
GUSTER: Thank you.
FUHRMAN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: New controversy this evening as the left-wing activist, Linda Sarsour, who claims Sharia Law is just misunderstood is invited to give a commencement speech at a New York college. Both sides in the debate coming up right after this. Also, Democrats picking up the pieces after 2016, and they have just completed their first autopsy. Karl Rove and Mo Elleithee on how devastating these findings are to the long- term health of the party when we come back.
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MACCALLUM: Just six months after Hillary Clinton was forced to acknowledge the pain of the loss, she and her team continued to struggle to explain why they lost to Donald Trump, who obviously ended up winning the election. The Democrats now trying to figure out what happened. They're doing an examination of it, and one of the first autopsies is now in. The results are a bit troubling, perhaps for the party, because they point to a message that failed to attract people who were Democratic voters for years and years: working-class white voters. Especially, the ones who voted for Barack Obama back in 2012. So, they are calling them Obama-Trump voters in this exercise. Ed Henry takes us inside this report from Washington. Ed?
ED HENRY, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, Democrats can't make up their minds about why they lost. First, the Russians did it. Then, this book titled "Shattered," told us Hillary Clinton never had a clear message. Well, today, Democrats have a new excuse. Clinton actually did have a clear message but progressives from the so-called Obama coalition rejected it. These Obama voters flipping to Donald Trump because he was better on the economy than Clinton weighed down by those Wall Street speeches.
The Washington Post reporting data from new focus groups conducted by the Democratic Super PAC priorities the USA show that in Michigan and Wisconsin, "a shockingly large percentage of these Obama-Trump voters, said Democrats economic policies will favor the wealthy." Twice the percentage that said the same about Trump. Yet, adding to the confusion for Democrats, former Vice President, Joe Biden, was in New Hampshire over the weekend, but Biden insisted he's not a candidate in 2020 and he offered to yet another explanation, Clinton's gender.
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JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: This last election, I think Hillary was at such a disadvantage, there was a double standard because she was the woman, I would supply. But beyond that, Trump was pretty smart. He made it all personal.
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HENRY: All of this follows a political report suggesting House Democrats were trying to downplay an autopsy report of their own. This report came up with another excuse, that the party has to do a better job of raising money and pouring that money into the right places. Of course, there could be a far simpler explanation. President Trump got more votes in battlegrounds like Michigan and Wisconsin. Plus, Pennsylvania and Florida. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Thanks, Ed. For what this means in the 28 midterms and beyond, Karl Rove served as White House Deputy Chief of Staff to President George W. Bush; and Mo Elleithee is the Executive Director of Georgetown's Institute for Politics, both are Fox News Contributors. Mo, let me go to you first on this. I found this very interesting. You know, when you got 42 percent of people who voted for President Obama, and then crossed over and voted, for now, President Trump, saying that they think that Democrats policies favored the wealthy. I mean, that turns on its head, the notion that we've had for decades that Republicans are the party of the rich people.
MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN'S INSTITUTES FOR POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Martha, I'm a Democrat. I was the Spokesman for the Democratic National Committee. I work for Hillary Clinton in 2008. My party has a problem right now. And I am glad that this well long- overdue self-reflection is happening. Too many people in my party want to look at James Comey, and the Russians, and base drop off, and say that's why Hillary Clinton lost. In a race this close-
MACCALLUM: And because she was a woman? I mean, I haven't seen any data that supports that notion. No exit polls, nothing, that supports that notion.
ELLEITHEE: But Martha, in a race this close, none of that is incorrect, but it glosses over a fundamental problem. And that is the lack of a values-driven economic message that actually connects with these people who flipped from Barack Obama to Donald Trump. Those people aren't necessarily rejecting Democratic policies, but they certainly didn't hear a message that connected it to their real lives.
MACCALLUM: Yes. But aren't they, though, Karl? Because they're talking about the fact that they felt that the economy wasn't getting any better. That life for them wasn't progressing in the American way, where your children are supposed to do better than you did. They said it's not working for them.
KARL ROVE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, it's broader than just 2016. It actually was a forecast by a very smart guy on the left named, John Judas, who several years ago - a decade ago, he wrote the emerging Democratic Majority: "The Coalition of the Ascendants." Minorities, women, particularly African- American and Latinos, would be and well educated, would be able to give the Democrats back to White House, were stated in 2008. A couple of years ago, I wrote a piece called "The Emerging Republican Advantage," and its argument was, that for whatever reason, during the Obama years, blue-collar working class Americans, middle-class American whites, had begun to feel dusted Democrats, had begun to feel dissatisfied with the Democratic Party.
So, this is more than just one election between two different people. It is a secular sort of revulsion, if you will, of a large number of working- class people, blue-collar people, who said the Democratic party no longer stands for the version that I see of a fair economy, in which if you work hard, you can get rewarded. Instead, it's a system that gives people free things. It's a system that gives people benefits that they don't deserve. I work hard and I don't see if it gets ahead and other people don't seem to work as hard then they get ahead.
MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean it's the forgotten man, the forgotten women theory that Donald Trump talked a lot about on the campaign trail. And this is also found that communities of color and exurban families, Mo also felt that they had been abandoned to some extent by their party. I mean, you know, that -- and as the writer of this research said, Democrats clearly have a lot of work to do, with a lot of their...
MO ELLEITHEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
MACCALLUM: ...core constituency groups.
ELLEITHEE: Without question, the Democratic Party has a lot of work to do. Now, here's the upside for the Democratic Party. The same data, the same research showed that these voters were rejecting the Republican Party, congressional republican's economic message by the same margin, virtually identically. They didn't believe the Republican Party, the Republicans in congress, were going to help them anymore and a lot of those Obama-Trump voters in the survey were still really skittish about President Trump. They were still nervous that he was going to be cutting a lot of the things that they are relying on. So, the party has a huge opportunity if it can get his act together.
MACCALLUM: Very true and Republicans need to, you know, if they want to keep the votes, they're going to have to get some legislation through. Thank you so much, Karl. Great to see you Mo. Always great to see you two. Thank you, guys.
So, still ahead tonight, the world's most influential business and political leaders, they all get together in one place this time of year and they grade President Trump's first 100 days. So, Bill Bennett was there at the confab (ph) and he heard what they were all saying in there. And he's going to give us some truth serum on it when he comes back in just a moment.
Plus, controversial Liberal Activist, Linda Sarsour sparking debate. She was invited to speak at a commencement at a New York University and people are pretty angry about it. We're going to have that fired up debate coming up right after this. Stay with us.
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LINDA SARSOUR, LIBERAL ACTIVIST: I will respect the presidency but I will not respect this president of the United States of America.
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MACCALLUM: There is growing backlash tonight over a graduation speaker, but this one is not a Conservative Speaker this time, Activist Linda Sarsour has been invited to deliver the commencement address at the University of New York City, an invitation proving so controversial that some are calling for state political leaders to intervene. Trace Gallagher gives us the background.
TRACE GALLAGHER, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Martha, Linda Sarsour is a Palestinian American, a Muslim activist, and a co-organizer of the national women's march back in January. Sarsour has been invited to speak at commencement for City University of New York School of Public Health.
An invitation that has infuriated Jewish Organizations who believe New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo should intervene because Sarsour is anti-Semitic, pointing to statements where she called Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu a waste of a human being, endorsed throwing rocks at Israeli cars and express support for Sharia Law tweeting, "Sharia Law is reasonable and once you read into the details, it makes a lot of sense. People just don't know the basics."
Anti-Islam Activist, Ayaan Hirsi Ali says she knows all about the basics of Sharia Law. Hirsi Ali was born Muslim, subjected to female genital mutilation, and escaped an arranged marriage. Linda Sarsour once tweeted that Hirsi Ali doesn't deserve to be a woman and should have her female genitalia taken away. Here is Hirsi Ali's response to Martha MacCallum back in February, watch.
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AYAAN HIRSI ALI, SOMALI-BORN DUTCH-AMERICAN ACTIVIST: She is a defender of Sharia Law and the principle of Sharia Law, there is no principle that demeans, degrades, and dehumanizes women more than the principle of Sharia Law.
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GALLAGHER: Democratic New York State Lawmaker, Dov Hikind is among those calling on City University of New York to rescind Linda Sarsour's invitation to speak. The university responded saying, "Taking action because critics objected the content of speech would conflict with the First Amendment and the principles of academic freedom." The school also points out that Former President Obama named Sarsour a "Champion of change." The commencement speech is June 1st. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you. So, here with more on this, Morton Klein is President of the Zionist Organization of America and his group is calling for Ms. Sarsour to be removed and Jumaane Williams is a New York City Council Member and a personal and professional friend of Ms. Sarsour's. Welcome to both of you gentlemen. It's great to have both of you here tonight.
JUMAANE WILLIAMS, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Thanks for having.
MACCALLUM: Morton, let me start with you. Why should she be removed? We've talked a lot about free speech, Ann Coulter speech. We talked about Charles Murray, why shouldn't she be able to say what she wants to say?
MORTON KLEIN, PRESIDENT OF THE ZIONIST ORGANIZATION OF AMERICA: There is no constitutional First Amendment right, obligation, for City College to invite anyone. They can invite who they want way. They don't have an obligation to invite her and they don't have an obligation to keep her on. They can dismiss having her. This is City College's decision.
And one of the main reasons we should not have her speak is the fact that she has praised the Intifada, the terror war that's killed several thousand Jews and dozens of Americans. The fact that she has praised killers of Jews, Rasmea Odeh who is just reported this week, when she had to - was sat on the stage with her she claimed that this was an honor and privilege being with this Jew killer.
So, she is someone who supports radical Islamic terrorism as well as being anti-Semitic where she said that Israel, the Jews should not have a state of their own. There could be 57 Islamic states but she is against even one Jewish state. She is a racist, anti-Semite and a supporter of radical Islamic terrorism. And by having her, it mainstreams those terrible traits.
MACCALLUM: Jumaane, you are friends with Linda Sarsour.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
MACCALLUM: Why do you think that those things don't matter for this graduate audience?
WILLIAMS: Well, I would say those things are the furthest from the truth from Linda's side, you know, the one who's in Time 100, in Essence 100, and one of the co-chairs of the Women's March. Even if some of them were Jewish or not, you did speak about free speech. But what has happened and Mr. Klein, many on the right have done a great job of that as they have confused people taking political stances against the state and calling anti-Semitism against a religion.
I haven't heard Linda Sarsour say anything against Judaism as a religion. I have heard people talk and make political comments. And we have a right and we can discuss whether those political comments were right or not. But to say they are anti-Semite is a different story and we find a way to confuse it too. So, if you disagree with what they say politically, you call them anti-Semite and that's a whole new ball of whack in the air.
MACCALLUM: What - I'm just curious what you thought about the Ann Coulter issue or Charles Murray at Middlebury, would you support their right to be able to speak at those colleges?
WILLIAMS: I would - I would be one out there protesting but of course I believe and I'm a Cunny graduate, very proud to be a Cunny graduate, I want there to be access to all types of beliefs and conversations. Thankfully, Linda is nothing what Mr. Klein said she is, but I do want to...
MACCALLUM: But she called Benjamin Netanyahu a waste of a human being.
WILLIAMS: OK, but is that unJudaism or is that on a political figure?
MACCALLUM: she said nothing is creepier than Zionism.
WILLIAMS: No, she actually re-tweeted a poem and no one has listened to what the poem that says and that was the title of the poem. And so, again, a lot of people take things out of concept. We do the alt-right does that very well and so we have to pushback on that so that we can make sure that we...
MACCALLUM: Why are you talking about the alt-right for? We're talking about whether or not these quotes are accurate.
WILLIAMS: Sure. And I'm saying on the right including Mr. Klein and alt right, they have taken a lot of time of the comment. And what I would say also, it's interesting who we are calling a Semite and who we don't because Mr. Klein asked the ADL to withdraw the accusation to being anti Semite for Mr. Bannon, who many of us - many people believe...
KLEIN: That's irrelevant.
WILLIAMS: It's not even.
MACCALLUM: All right, final thought and then we've got to go, Morton?
KLEIN: She has even said that black slavery is nothing compared to Islamophobia. So, she has made negative statements about African-Americans by delegitimizing even black slavery.
MACCALLUM: All right.
WILLIAMS: She's a Muslim woman fighting for Muslims and black African Americans.
MACCALLUM: Gentlemen, thank you. I've got to leave it there because we're out of time. Thank you very much. Good to have both of you with us tonight.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, still ahead in our great story segment, six years since the night Osama Bin Laden was killed, we'll speak directly with the man who fired those fatal shots, when former navy seal, Robert O'Neal joins us here.
Plus, it's the event that brings together some of the most influential business and political leaders of our day. So, how are they all reacting out in Beverly Hills tonight to the Trump presidency? Bill Bennett joins us with his thoughts on what he saw at that revolution today when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So, at this moment, thousands of the most influential business and political leaders are in Los Angeles, they're chatting about the future of this country, serving up their report card on the president's first 100 days.
Billionaire business leaders including Alphabet Chair, Eric Schmidt; JPMorgan Chase CEO, Jamie Dimon along with Trump cabinet members like Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, all talking President Trump's impact on America's bottom line, so what are they saying in there?
Bill Bennett, Former Education Secretary and host of "The Bill Bennett Show" Podcast spoke today at that conference and he joins us live with what he heard. Bill, it's good to have you with us tonight. You know, looking back at what they discussed last year, they all apparently got there and agreed that Hillary Clinton was going to win the election and that Brexit would absolutely fail.
BILL BENNETT, HOST OF "THE BILL BENNETT SHOW" PODCAST, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY: Right.
MACCALLUM: So, what are they saying this year?
BENNETT: Right. Well, you know, you'd be smart about some things but not about other things so people can be really smart on some categories and stupid on other stuff. They got Brexit wrong and they got the election wrong, pretty surprised by the Trump election, but today was an evaluation of the 100 days, I was one of the evaluators. There was a panel of other people.
Now, remember, the people who are here, extremely influential, powerful, wealthy. They are - they tend to be when it comes to politics, conflict immersed most of them. So, they don't want trouble. They are here to make friends and to make connections and to make money. That's what this is about for the most part.
I would say that criticisms were these, they felt that it when it comes to foreign policy, the president had too much unpredictability for our allies. That, you know, it wasn't clear which way he was going. I defended him on grounds that he is, you know, he's not von Clausewitz (ph), he didn't write a book about this stuff. He does things on impulse sometimes, but his instincts are good and that unpredictability can be a good thing.
Well, they said, unpredictability to your allies. Well, sometimes, it's all right to keep your allies a little off balance, too.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
BENNETT: He got good rates domestically, Martha. People said, "Well, you know, he's been good to the business community, almost unanimity. I would say moderate, left, right about business community, that he was encouraging business, reaching out to business community, reaching out to the unions and had a genuine commitment to improve the economy, on that he got good grades.
MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, in terms of Europe, in terms of the future of, you know, global economies in this environment, what did they have to say about that?
BENNETT: Well, they all - they have their plans, they have their ideas about it, these are smart people who know about the economy. It's just - it's interesting is that, you know, the network around Trump is not the usual network for guys...
MACCALLUM: Yes, that's true.
BENNETT: ...to come to a conference like this. If it would have been Jeb Bush -- Jeb Bush was here, you know, it will be a whole lot of people around it. But for Hillary, my goodness, it will be a whole lot of people. So, when they talk about unpredictability to our allies or to our enemies, they are also saying unpredictability to us. They don't know what he is going to do...
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: But, you have Steve Mnuchin up there. I mean he's Hollywood Movies and...
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: ...I'm sorry, there's a little delay, so pardon me for jumping in. But, Steve Mnuchin was a Hollywood guy. Gary Cohen is somebody that they all know because he was, you know, top guy at Goldman Sachs. So, are those people providing a level of reassurance to this crowd, or not?
BENNETT: I think their - I think yes. I think their presence is because they know Steve Mnuchin.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
BENNETT: But, you know, they wanted more details than Mnuchin was ready to give them. But, yes the fact that he was here is good. Look, I said over and over again, you got to be reassured by this team. This is a great team. One of the guys on the panel said, "Oh, it's Macaulay Culkin, they're all home alone."
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: All right, we got to go.
BENNETT: ...they need more help. They may need this staff, but anyway, pretty good reviews on the domestic side...
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Yes, right. Good to see you. I'm sorry to jump in we're going to get cut off. Thank you, Bill.
Coming up, we're going to take a look back at that night six years ago when Osama Bin Laden was killed during a late-night raid in Pakistan. Rob O'Neill was there on the stairs with the gun. He is next.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The United States has conducted an operation that killed Usama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda and a terrorist who is responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women, and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Six years ago tonight, President Obama delivered that message to America after some of our bravest heroes under the cover of night put their own lives on the line for the security of this great nation. Osama Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan and that night, Americans took to the streets to express their pride.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Crowd cheering)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: It's a great story and it still is and tonight, we hear directly from the man who fired those fatal shots into Osama Bin Laden on May 1st, 2011. Robert O'Neill is the author of the new book "The Operator," firing the shots that killed Osama Bin Laden and my years as a seal team warrior and a former navy seal who carried out 400 missions.
In addition, the bin Laden raid, also the mission that freed Captain Richard Phillips while he was being held captive in a lifeboat by Somali pirates. Rob is a hero and it is always good to see you, my friend. Thank you for being here tonight in our first night of "The Story."
ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Martha thanks for having me and congratulations on the show.
MACCALLUM: Thank you so much. You know, I've often thought about your description of walking up those stairs and when I think back on 9/11 and I think about all of the people that we all lost on that day and I think about President Bush standing on the rubble and saying the people who knocked these buildings down are going to hear from all of us soon. That was on your shoulders, Rob, when you and your team on top that staircase in the compound in Abbottabad, did you feel that, did you think about all of that in a moment or just your training?
O'NEILL: Well, it started to sink in about 80 minutes into the 90-minute flight because for some reason, I remembered President Bush's words on 9/11 when he said, "Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended." And it started to sink in but it was - I was just so fortunate to be with the best people in the world and the best pilots in the world. It was - it was something that we all did.
We knew the chances of coming back -- not coming back - we're really, really high, we took it on because of the people that died in the towers, that died in Pennsylvania and the pentagon. And it was- - it was -- because we knew we might die, it was so neat to watch my guys just behave like complete professionals.
They did everything right and I was in a position for most of the mission where I was actually behind all the guys and no fear at all, doing our jobs as we had done - like myself over 400, but I wasn't the only guy there were that many missions. They just did a great job and I saw stuff that I explained on the book, it happened on the stairs going up when we ran into Khalid Bin Laden and the female analyst who found him said you will run into him at some point, he'll be armed.
And once you get him, that's the last line of defense. I watched amazing guys do amazing stuff. And then we finally went up the stairs and I was behind one of the bravest man I know. When we went up the stairs, we were down to two of us and he was the first guy through the curtain and he actually - he jumped on people he knew were wearing suicide vests. So, I watched a man jump on a grenade. It just didn't go off and he did it for the guy behind him. He didn't know it was me. He just knew it was one of our guys.
I saw him do that, it was incredible and I just turned to the corner and I saw Osama Bin Laden and I recognized him as a threat. He was not surrendering. It was definitely him and I took the shots that would take out a suicide bomber. And I also, you know, I explained other stories in "The Operator," about confronting suicide bombers as very, very fast, as very loud, it's permanent. And when you deal with them, you have to shoot him the way you shot him and under a second.
But again, the team - the team got me there, the pilots got me there, the tactics got me there. I did what any special operator would have done. It's just that I happened to be there.
MACCALLUM: I mean how do you, you know, and just lastly before I let you go, about a half minute left, how do you live with the legacy of what you did and move on with the rest of your life?
O'NEILL: Well, I take great pride and the fact that I can help 9/11 families with the healing process and because of the platforms I've been given, I help special operator's transition to the private sector with my organization, "Your Grateful Nation." So, I mean it's one day at a time. And it's almost right now, it's a story I know. It's a lot - I couldn't be prouder of the guys.
MACCALLUM: Well, we are proud of you and you are a hero and we all remember that night six years ago. I know you remember it with every ounce of your being. So, Rob, thank you so much and it's always good to see you.
O'NEILL: Thank...
MACCALLUM: Come see us in New York next time.
O'NEILL: I definitely will. Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Rob. Our thanks to him.
So, as we move from "The First 100 Days" to "The Story," this quote of the night fits the bill perfectly. It was sent to us by Kathleen Smith of New Jersey and said by then candidate Donald J. Trump during the campaign. "Anyone who thinks my story is anywhere near over is sadly mistaken."
So, the first 100 days are behind us like clearly, "The Story" goes on, tonight and every night. We hope to see you back here tomorrow night at 7:00. Send us a tweet, #TheStory @marthamaccallum. Tucker Carlson is up next.
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