Fallout from the failure of the American Health Care Act

Reaction and analysis on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 24, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News Alert. Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle. Welcome to "The Five" on this very hectic day in Washington, D.C. There was supposed to be a vote this afternoon on the Republican bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. But just a short time ago, House Speaker Paul Ryan pulled the bill from the floor on orders of the president. The reason, they didn't have enough votes for it to pass. Here's the president moments ago.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We were very close and it was a very, very tight margin. We had no Democrat support. We had no votes from the Democrats. They weren't going to give us a single vote, so it's a very difficult thing to do. I have been saying for the last year and a half that the best thing we could do politically speaking is let Obamacare explode. It is exploding right now.

I want to thank the Republican Party. I want to thank Paul Ryan. He worked very, very hard. I will tell you that, he worked very, very hard. Tom Price and Mike Pence, who is right here, our vice president, our great vice president, everybody worked hard. I worked as a team player. And would have loved to have seen it pass but --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- feel betrayed by the House Freedom Caucus at all? They seem to be the most difficult.

TRUMP: No, I'm not betrayed. They're friends of mine. I'm disappointed because we could have had it so I'm disappointed. I'm a little surprised, to be honest with you. I'm disappointed but they're friends of mine and you know, it was a very hard time for them and a very hard vote. I'm disappointed.


GUILFOYLE: Paul Ryan also addressed the dramatic turn of events.


HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN: We came really close today, but we came up short. I spoke to the president just a little while ago. I told him that the best thing I think to do is to pull this bill and he agreed with that decision. This is a disappointing day for us. Doing big things is hard. And I want thank so many members who helped make this bill better. A lot our members put a lot of hard work into this.

I also want to thank the president. I want to thank the vice president. I want to thank Tom Price, Mick Mulvaney and the entire White House team. The president gave his all in this effort. He did everything he possibly could to help people see the opportunity that we have with this bill. He's really been fantastic. Still, we got to do better and we will. I absolutely believe that.


GUILFOYLE: Joining us for reaction and analysis is our chief political anchor, Bret Baier. Bret, thanks for joining us on "The Five."

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: You know, a lot of developments today that we thought perhaps maybe last night, late into tonight they maybe had a chance but kind of your thoughts about the way this unfolded and then the two statements that we just saw from Speaker Ryan and the president.

BAIER: Well, I think both of them talked about how the other worked very well and closely with the other. But, behind the scenes, there clearly is some blame and pointing going on. There, you know, there's a feeling and I think you saw it in some of the pieces that came out including to the "New York Times" piece that the White House that this wasn't the best thing to go out with first.

Then you had at the Capitol, you know, some feeling about the Freedom Caucus members, the conservative House members who really stuck to their guns. Really, this bill didn't rip up Obamacare from its roots. It didn't truly repeal Obamacare and that's what these conservatives had a problem with.

The moderates wanted to make a deal because you take the deal that you're given and then pass it onto the senate and see what they can come up with. Now, this Republican congress is going to move on to tax reform and it's a lot harder after taking a body blow on the first legislative try. The president took a hit today.

GUILFOYLE: All right. We all have some questions for you. Kick it around the table. OK, Bob, do you have some questions?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Yes, Bret, I listened to -- excuse me -- President Trump blame the Democrats saying we didn't give a single Democratic vote and that really part of the problem. Well, I guess history doesn't stick with this guy very well because we didn't get a single Republican vote for Obamacare. So, is he really going to try to lay this on the Democrats when in fact the Republicans were the ones who refused to give a single vote or negotiate on the last bill?

BAIER: Well, I think one of the things you could say definitively is that it's not the best way to run a government, is to have no votes from the other side. You're right, there were no Republican votes, and no, there weren't expected to be any Democratic votes on this bill. But the president is mentioning that, I think, Bob, to get to the point that now Obamacare, he said, is owned by the Democrats.

When it explodes, they'll come to us and we will make one big beautiful bill. I don't know if it's going to get to that point. There will be efforts, I think, on Capitol Hill to try to fix some of the problems before -- some of these states don't have any options. Right now, they only have one insurer. Some of them will have zero before long.

BECKEL: All right. I'm good.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Eric, you have a question?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: More of a comment, Bret. So, we see now who liked this bill, let's put it this way. You point out the Freedom Caucus didn't like it and they are clearly having problems getting to that group to get behind him. But then moderates started to peel off as recently as this morning, a couple from -- one from New Jersey and another one as well.

Quinnipiac had a poll out yesterday saying only 17 percent of Americans polled think this was a good plan going forward. There it is 17 approve, 56 percent said no, the other 27 percent weren't sure. American Medical Association, Heritage Foundation, Cato didn't like it. Dems didn't like it.

I mean, you know, at some point you got to hang it on someone. And I've been doing this for three and a half weeks now, hanging it on leadership in the house. Aren't they the only ones really who did like this bill?

BAIER: Well, the president said he liked it. The vice president said he liked it. The White House said they liked it. They said it was the bill, the chance that republicans had to do it.

BOLLING: They don't get a vote --

BAIER: They have influence --

BOLLING: -- that they needed to bring, and Paul Ryan told the president I have one I can bring to you that you can go sell and he didn't have it.

BAIER: Sure, he did not have the votes and he said that the president tried mightily to try to get many members to come over to the yes side to make no's into yes. Remember, he was in the Oval Office with members of the Freedom Caucus and the Republican Study Conference where he said all these people here, they were all no's and now they are yeses.

So, he was invested in getting to yes, the president was, and remember that this is a presidential leadership issue when you lay out your agenda. Yes, it was the House of Representatives and Paul Ryan who had the strategy of doing it this way. But, when you can't tell the elevator story of what's good about this bill to somebody in middle America, you've lost.

And that's why you see 17 percent in that poll. They had to explain that there were three phases -- that the good stuff about market competition happened in phase 3. It just wasn't easy to sell.

GUILFOYLE: Dana has a question for you, Bret.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: So earlier today, Democratic minority whip, Steny Hoyer, said that he'd be willing to work with the president. So, he only -- he conceded that there were problems in the individual market and that they needed to be fixed. He thought they could be and that he thought that now if the president didn't get this bill and get it in this way, that maybe he'd be willing to sit down with them and try to fix that. Now, I don't know if he was bluffing, but do you think that's something the president might be willing to do?

BAIER: No, I think he is signaling that now. And that I don't know how long they're going to wait, but clearly there are real problems with Obamacare in many different parts of the country. And they're going to have to play now on that framework because it's clear that Republicans are not going to be able to get enough votes to repeal it from its roots.

So, they are going to have to fix it with Democratic help. There is no Democrat who was going to rip up the Obamacare structure. And I think the president is going to reach out and try to get Democrats. I talked to Chuck Schumer in an interview recently and when he said once the repeal effort is over, we're going to come forward with some ideas about how to fix Obamacare as it stands now.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Greg, you have a question?

GREGE GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes, I do, Kimberly. Thank you. Bret, let's be Frank here. Is it entirely possible that the Russians could say have tampered with this vote? I don't think you can disprove this. I think Rand Paul colluded with Putin to undermine the vote so the White House would rehire Paul Manafort.

BAIER: Did have you something else, Bob?


BAIER: Oh, sorry. Listen, there was no vote. There was never going to be a vote and --

GUTFELD: There you go. There was never going to be a vote.

BAIER: If they didn't have the numbers, it was never coming to a vote. I don't think it was the Russians.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my goodness. I hope we haven't tainted you too much, Bret Baier.

BAIER: No, it's all good.

GUILFOYLE: We look forward to your show at 6:00. I know you have smart analysis.

BECKEL: What? Does that say we don't have smart analysis here? I think Greg's analysis were fair.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. Thank you. Exactly. All right, so listen, we're going to take it around the table again. Tell us what you really think, Bob.

BECKEL: Well what I really think is it's no question there. It was a loss for Trump but I want to give Trump credit here for a second. His strategy almost pulled this thing off. When he said to the Freedom Caucus, look, this your one chance, I'm not going to sit around with the Freedom Caucus - - I assume that was going to happen -- the bill was going to be pulled back. They were going to negotiate stuff they would like and then they'll bring the bill back out.

Trump said no, let's vote on this thing up or down or get out and you don't have a chance to get rid of Obamacare. I think that moved some votes. On the other hand, the idea that somehow this is a Democratic loss, first of all, Obamacare is already Democratic bill. That's no big secret. I think for Trump to try to move on to tax reform may be a good idea. But let's put it this way, he tried. Not a bad try but he lost.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, if you were there, you wouldn't have voted for this. I mean you've been a very strong critic of it.

BOLLING: Bob is wrong about something. That he's wrong about he almost pulled it off. I don't think there's any movement. There was always 25 problems in the Freedom Caucus. There were additional three more yesterday. And then you got some moderates peeling off today. They needed probably 30 votes and they didn't have them.

Here's the point. Here's how it works. It should work. It's a democracy, right? So the Republicans want to bring a bill that they want the president eventually to sign and they have to unite behind this bill. The problem with the bill that they brought and this is the truth. This is leadership bill. This is Paul Ryan. This is Brady -- Weldon and McCarthy and a couple of chairman of some committees who put this together.

The Freedom Caucus said we want to be involved in the process. Let conservatives get involved and they said no. We have the votes. This is the bill we're going to present. They presented the bill. Trump said I'll try and sell that bill, and they have never had the votes and they couldn't get the votes.

So they put it on Trump saying that they had them and they didn't. So, no, Bob, it wasn't Trumpcare. It's still leadership in the GOPcare.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, where do they go from here? They basically are saying, well, now you are going to fall on your own sword. You're unwilling to come to the table to do something, so now take your medicine.

PERINO: I'm not sure, you know, because between now and Monday there is probably three major news stories. The news cycle changes so fast that they'll have to deal with the analysis and take their lumps. But they did run on this for seven years. And in February 2016, and all throughout the campaign, all the Republican people -- candidates and President Trump said -- I think it was early as October, just wait until you see my plan it's going to be fabulous.

I just think that reality is setting in about Americans viewpoints about healthcare and health benefits and who they want to take care of and how we're going to pay for it. And I think that they'll try to move onto the parallel track that they were running on with tax reform. I think it gets harder because they had tax savings in this health bill.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know.

PERINO: That they're not going to have now, but I think that one of the things is can they get off of the mat on Monday. And I assume that they can. Life will go on. This is like -- it's not fatal. It kind of stinks but it's not the worst thing that ever happened.

BECKEL: Is it -- oh, I'm sorry, Greg has --

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I have a followup question for Dana. Why bring this if they didn't know they had the vote? You know, that's the thing. Was it going to be that off the mark and to have this be your first piece going forward, unless some assurances were made that, I mean, this was you know, a substantial chunk.

PERINO: Well, I don't know all of their strategy and I guess that we'll probably read a lot about that this weekend. I think that one thing that I liked about President Trump's approach this morning was he said I'm calling for the vote. And I thought that was good.

GUILFOYLE: I thought so, too.

PERINO: He's not risk averse. Let's just -- let the chips fall where they may, but I think politically he understood and was persuaded that if they force the vote that then it didn't matter. The right or the left was going to come after all of those members and, for what? It wouldn't have advanced anywhere.

Another thing would be to see OK, Freedom Caucus and Rand Paul and others, do you have something that the other members of the house and then of course, then in the Senate, that they could rally around and maybe they have that and it will be -- it's not urgent that they pass it.

The president will be president for at least four years. It just kind of stinks that the first one out of the gate was not successful for them. But I think they'll have many successes going forward.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, with having these majorities, this is the big opportunity to be able to get this put forward. I mean it was such a big piece of the campaign and repeal and replace Obamacare and then to, you know, it's just disappointing, I guess.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean this is supposed to be Donald Trump's wheel house. You know, he's a salesman. He could talk a fat kid off a fudgsicle. Here's the difference. It's not his fault because he is used to dealing with people in deals with financial incentive. It doesn't matter what you believe. There's no ideology. When you sit down and you're making deal over a piece of property or you're selling a car. You don't care what they believe.

GUILFOYLE: Because you have skin in the game.

GUTFELD: Yes and the skin is only financial. Politics is different. The skin is different. You have bitter adversaries. You have political and ideological differences. And within the Republican Party, which is known as a big tent, you have differences within differences. You have factions who apparently unite under one idea of individual freedoms, however, they can't agree on anything and so I think that he -- this is a learning experience for him in that it this is not a business deal.

Politics stinks. It just stinks. They could have had something but they couldn't get it -- they couldn't line up behind that guy. And this is a difference between the right and the left. The right has differences within differences. The left are half sheep, half robots. They're shobots, you know. They will all fall in line perfectly and you know -- right now, there is a shirtless guy drinking a pia colada laughing his butt off on some island and that's Barack Obama.

BECKEL: Yes, that's -- wait, just really on Greg's point.

GUILFOYLE: Conveniently (ph) unavailable for a month.

BECKEL: When Donald Trump -- one of the more disgraceful things I think he said today was Obamacare is going to fall apart, this is a good political thing to happen. Let it fall apart. You're talking about millions, hundreds of millions of people on healthcare and on Obamacare and you want it to fall apart.

BOLLING: No they're not.

BECKEL: Yes they are.

BOLLING: You don't have hundreds of millions of people on Obamacare.

BECKEL: OK, 70 million.

BOLLING: No, no, there's like 12 million and half of those are --

BECKEL: Oh no, that's --


BECKEL: -- in Medicaid?

BOLLING: Stop it. Stop it.

BECKEL: No, don't stop it -- Medicaid.

BOLLING: -- Obamacare Bob. Medicaid was always there before.

BECKEL: Obamacare was Medicaid --

BOLLING: Can I just --

GUTFELD: But wait, can I just respond to Bob because what you're actually saying -- this is what was learned from Rahm Emanuel. You never let any kind of catastrophe go to waste. What Donald Trump is saying, this thing is going to implode and that's going to be an opportunity for a different bill.

BECKEL: It's going to be a tough deal --

GUILFOYLE: Right. So Bob is fine when the Democrats used that and make an opportunity out of something political misfortune but not on the other side, which I can understand. At least you're consistent.

BOLLING: So, let me use CEO your example, your example of Donald Trump the CEO who is used to getting money people bringing him deals and say OK, this is one I can sell. This is good for the company.



BOLLING: That is exactly what happened and Kimberly points out last night, I think late last night he said, "It's a yes or no guys. I'm done selling this thing and it was always -- it was a no. Believe me, at that point, it was a no. So, then they had to figure it out. The point is the person that brings you that deal that says this is amazing, this is going to be great for the company --


BOLLING: -- and it's a flop.


BOLLING: What do you usually do with them?

GUTFELD: However --

BOLLING: You got to get rid of them. You got to demote them.

GUTFELD: It's a difference between like being a macro and a micromanager. Maybe read more about the bill.

BECKEL: It still scared a lot of people that need to be scared tonight as he sits in his fat house with his fat food and everything else he's got.


GUILFOYLE: What is wrong with you.


BECKEL: People were sitting out there on Obamacare --

GUILFOYLE: Are you talking about the White House?

BOLLING: Do you realize there are more people who would be without healthcare under this bill than Obamacare.

BECKEL: Yes, that's right. That's a classic (INAUDIBLE) of a deal, 24 million people thrown out.

BOLLING: If anything, all those people are (INAUDIBLE) going thank god we still have Obamacare under this thing.

BECKEL: That's right. I think that's right. But the question is when he says it's going to implode. He doesn't know that. It was supposed to implode three years ago according to most of you guys and it hasn't.

PERINO: Actually the insurance CEO's are the ones who are saying that it's not going to be successful.

BECKEL: Yes, and they'll be at the marketplace maybe.

GUILFOYLE: Well, the president --

PERINO: But they're already not.

GUILFOYLE: -- made that point that Dana said though information are hurrying back from the exchanges and this is not is sustainable, which we already knew and we've had more than ample evidence of this about its financial misery, the state that it's in so, ultimately, people being unwilling to come to the table who is going to suffer, people that want to have healthcare and choices.

BECKEL: So, instead of (INAUDIBLE) that means nobody has health insurance?

GUTFELD: No, that you have free market incentives. Same as you now.

BECKEL: Yes, so people like you can afford to buy it.

GUTFELD: No, it's for everybody. The people who aren't rich can buy cars. They can buy things. In a free market there's competition.

BOLLING: Bob, the number is somewhere around 9 million people, OK. That's the number of people who are fine with Obamacare without the massive subsidies and Medicaid. That's the number.

BECKEL: You got to include the dedicated subsidies. You didn't have it before.

BOLLING: Yes, you did.

BECKEL: Ohio got a lot more Medicaid money.

BOLLING: My point is, if you -- this bill would have put 52 million people off healthcare, 52 million people.

BECKEL: And why? Because Medicaid would have been cut off.

GUTFELD: That's right,

BOLLING: That's the point.

BECKEL: Well that's my point.

BOLLING: The best thing to happen to the Republicans is this thing fails.

BECKEL: Well, that maybe the best thing that happens. There's no objection.

BOLLING: Can you imagine running on this thing being the bill and your premiums are exploding and middle to lower income?

BECKEL: So why did your president get so far behind it.

BOLLING: If you're a congressman who cares and going re-elect me? Good lord.

GUILFOYLE: Good lord. I think we need some healthcare at this table for sure, Bob. Stay right there. A quick break and we're going to take you live to the White House, next.



RYAN: This is a setback, no two ways about it. But it is not the end of the story, because I know that every man and woman in this conference is now motivated more than ever to step up our game, to deliver on our promises. I know that everyone is committed to seizing this incredible opportunity we have and I sure am.


PERINO: That was Speaker Paul Ryan after a disappointing day for Republicans. There will be no vote on the GOP healthcare bill. Ryan pulling the bill after speaking with the president. For more details, let's bring in White House correspondent Kevin Corke. Kevin, I saw you earlier. What have you learned since?

KEVIN CORKE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Well, I got to tell you, listen, we figured this thing might happen. We were talking about it all day long, speculating what might happen. Well, now it gets on to tax reform because this is not going to happen at least not for now.

A stinging disappointment and a defeat for this president and, frankly, for that matter, I think it's important to point out this is also a defeat for House Republicans because they had everything lined up, full GOP control in Washington, 60 days on and they got bupkis. Nothing has been done and this after the president had been proclaiming and into the law was imminent.

A short time ago he said, look, it was close, I'm disappointed but all is not lost.


TRUMP: I've been saying for the last year and a half that the best thing we could do, politically speaking, is let Obamacare explode. It is exploding right now. Many states have big problems.


CORKE: The president continues to believe that Obamacare will simply collapse on its own. And by the way, he didn't want to cast blame on this situation on Speaker Ryan and he didn't want to cast blame on the Freedom Caucus. You're going to hear some about that probably in the days to come. He said, look, the Democrats will eventually have to come to the table moving forward and make a deal. As for what's next, here is what Mr. Trump had to say about that.


TRUMP: We'll probably be going right now for tax reform, which we could have done earlier but this really would have worked out better if we could have had some Democrat support.


CORKE: There's the buzz word, some Democrat support. Didn't get it. Probably won't get much of it in the near future. Dana, back to you.

PERINO: All right, Kevin. Thank you so much. Kimberly, one of the things I thought was interesting about the --

GUILFOYLE: We love Kevin, very entertaining.

PERINO: I love Kevin Corke. He's always been fantastico. I've known him for years. One thing smart about pulling the bill and not making the take the vote is that part of -- one of the pressure points was that the Right to Life Committee was going to score the vote. So that if you voted for it because in the bill it was the defunding of Planned Parenthood, you would have gotten a checkmark and that would have helped your right to life score.

If they voted no because of their conscience because they didn't like the bill or whatever, then they still would have had to deal with that and do things that that was in some ways a way to preserve some of these members for taking that political hit unnecessarily.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And then having to deal with it back home with their constituents, but that was also something they used as sort of a prod and a weapon against them while they were trying to gather the votes to say, hey, this is going to get scored. Get on board or get scorched.

But, unfortunately, in the end there was enough of them that banded together, you know, in that caucus to be a significant and ultimately, you know, death nail for the bill to go forward. So now you have to try to regroup from here. What is it that you could do or could've done that would secure that block of votes?

And quite frankly, why didn't they go ahead in the house and make sure and work with them to begin with and say tell us what you need so that we go forward with something to the American people like we have promised, that will pass. But it seems at the end they were trying to just rely on President Trump with the Hail Mary, you know, 25 Hail Mary passes at the end of the game to try to get the win, but I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me with something this important that they have had this much time to work with that they didn't have it pulled together with the votes already pledged.

PERINO: Greg, do you think with a loss like this that it makes it easier or harder to do something in the future?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I mean, every politician somehow just gravitates towards healthcare. It's like the stove they want to touch. I mean, Clinton got burned. Everybody has to touch it. But Obama, I mean look, everybody knew that Obamacare was a mess, including the namesake, even President Obama knew when he put it out there that it was bad.

I think, you know, the upside you can come out of this is at least the Republicans show you kind of what was under the hood. I mean the Democrats they paint it turd pink and they call it cotton candy which is what they did with Obamacare. And in this case, you kind of understood what was going on.


PERINO: Bob, do you think there is anything that the AARP would ever get behind in terms of backing some sort of reform? Because it's powerful voting block and healthcare is so important to retirees and it's such a big organization?

BECKEL: Well, yeah. I think there probably is, but first of all, can somebody tell me why this is left like in front of my table?

PERINO: To do your powder.

GUILFOYLE: No Bob, it's when you start breaking out in a sweat.

BECKEL: No sweat here. I'm having brightful (ph) day. I think the answer to that is AARP and the answer to it for a lot of other people, myself included, is there is going to be healthcare delivered. These health care - - insurance companies are not going to go -- what are they going to do? They're going to insure Panamanians? They're going to keep pulling out of these exchanges.

People are going to get healthcare. They're going to end up going to emergency rooms which is going to drive up (ph) the cost of healthcare, which is why we had this in the first place. And so, my guess is expand the Medicaid out even more that the 130 percent or whatever it is above poverty level. Let's get people on Medicaid or Medicare and if you want to buy a Cadillac program like Eric does, then pay $10,000 extra a year.

PERINO: I got to let Eric take a whack at that.

BOLLING: Yes, good luck with that. I mean, you have Republican senate in the house. That will never fly. You're going in the wrong direction.

BECKEL: So you're not going to take care of people?

GUILFOYLE: He's just playing now.

BOLLING: Paul Ryan made a very important statement in his concession speech or whatever you want to call it. He said five states you have one plan meaning one provider left and it's going to get worse. But here's the problem. He hit the nail on the head with what the problem is but this bill never fixed that.

GUILFOYLE: Didn't address that problem.

BOLLING: No, but you have to do that. There are states where you are down to one and the reason is there will be two or three and they'll say, you know what, we're doing very well in the state. We're going to stay but you guys go, then they'll go and then they raised the premiums.

And this is what's going on, and you can't jump across state lines. All they needed to really do was to --

GUILFOYLE: Free market.

BOLLING: -- put back one policy in this, I don't care about a bird amendment or bird bath, forget it get that upfront because that's the one thing that would turn the premiums south and the deductibles south by introducing competition.

PERINO: Could they do that in the tax bill?

BOLLING: I don't know if they can attach it to the tax bill but they should d it.

GUILFOYLE: Great point there.

BOLLING: And here's the point, then you would get people to sign on to it.

GUILFOYLE: Do you think that would guarantee the Freedom Caucus?

BOLLING: It would certainly get -- it would have been enough to get the Freedom Caucus.

BECKLE: DO you think the insurance (ph) would lower the premium?

GUILFOYLE: Why not get that --

BOLLING: I don't think -- here's the thing --

GUILFOYLE: Why not get that agreed to ahead of time.

BOLLING: I'm going to (INAUDIBLE) the camera. You got to stop catering to the insurance companies. Quit it. That's what Obamacare did. That's what this bill does. You got to stick it to the insurance companies. It's time for them to eat a little bit. They are making way too much money. You take some away from them and give it to the people who are paying the premiums, and you will get Freedom Caucus --



PERINO: All right. We got to get going. Stay right there. Apparently Hillary Clinton just tweeted today that today was a victory for all Americans. OK. "The Five" is going to return with much more on all of this in just a moment.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tax reform or what's next?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll probably be going right now for tax reform, which we could have done earlier, but this really would have worked out better if we could have had some Democrats' support. Remember this: we had no Democrat support so now we're going to go for tax reform, which I've always liked.


BOLLING: I think a lot of people do. This is a FOX News alert. That was President Trump discussing what he will tackle next, now that the GOP healthcare bill has been pulled. A political earthquake, indeed, in Washington today.

So, we're going to round.


BOLLING: K.G., I expect -- fully expect to see Steve Mnuchin and Mick Mulvaney talking to President Trump, talking about what they're going to propose for tax reform.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, of course. They've got to get something and put it out, but it's got to be solved. There is no more room for mystery, you know? Friday mystery vote. That didn't go well for them today. He's got to really hit it out of the ball park with tax reform. That's something else that was promised. That was something very specific that candidate Trump said that he would achieve if he was elected president. So now that's what they have to do.

This is something that he can make a tremendous amount of change for people in their everyday lives, to make it more beneficial and easier for them. That, coupled with the jobs piece and infrastructure growth in this country, I think, will be something that people will remember and will resonate.

BOLLING: So Dana, clearly, President Trump's expended some political capital over the healthcare fight. This is the big one. You watch the stock market, every time something is positive or negative for the healthcare, it was going -- if it was positive it was going up, because they expected the win to spill over into tax reform. Tax reform is the big -- the big gorilla on this one, though.

PERINO: I do also think that President Trump showed that he is willing to get behind something and really try to push it and try to sell it. So they should have some -- if you're worried about future legislation, I think that maybe should give you some comfort that, if he likes it and it's going to be his bill, he will try to push for it.

I do wonder on comprehensive tax reform if they maybe should try to break that up. And so one of the things that everybody could agree on is the corporate tax reform. Politically, you're not going to get a lot of nice headlines for that, but I'm assuming that the market would like it and that, economically, that would make a lot of sense. And then you can do some sort of middle-class tax cut if you can make it happen. But it is going to be more difficult because of the deficit numbers.

BOLLING: Greg, take us 64,000 feet looking down right now. He needs...

GUTFELD: I have a fear of heights. Just so you know that.

GUILFOYLE: And of being tall.

BOLLING: And off to the side, stage left, watch what's going on on stage.


BOLLING: What does he need to do to sell the American people on tax reform?

GUTFELD: I think -- well, the first thing is don't tweet tomorrow morning about this. No early Saturday morning tweeting.

GUILFOYLE: Or tonight.

GUTFELD: Just let this go -- tonight.

You know what? The thing about taxes is you have to explain it. It's so boring to a lot of -- it's boring but important. You have to explain what it's like to have control of your own money and that you have -- you have a better sense of how to spend money than the government does. And I think if you -- if you argue, and he's persuasive about it, it can happen. And I'm like you; I kind of wish he had gone there first, because we knew that Obamacare would be ugly.


GUTFELD: But you know, now he's got to do this. And this is what happens. Republicans always have to clean up Democrat messes. They're always playing ball in the house. You know, you don't play ball in the house. Peter Brady did it; he got in trouble. But they break the vase, and the Republicans have to put the vase back together.

GUILFOYLE: ... sounds familiar.

BOLLING: But Bob, there's some good news for President Trump on the tax front. We have GOP, it's bifurcated between the conservatives and the moderates. I think every single one of them like tax cuts.

BECKEL: Oh, yes. There should be, should be a fairly straight line to get this through, tax reform. But just juggle back to healthcare for a second. I think...

BOLLING: Can we stay on taxes?

BECKEL: The one thing about the health care thing, I think you could actually get Democrats along. You and I were talking about this in the break. Do cross-state competition and allow tort reform to really take over. Democrats won't like that, because we get so much money from trial lawyers. But I think there's a way, because we're not going to leave people on the street.

On tax reform, you know, I'm still for a flat tax. So I -- but I like your idea of all this -- how many -- much money is...

BOLLING: Three trillion, repatriation.

BECKEL: Repatriation?

BOLLING: That's part of the package. It's comprehensive. And the good news is when you sell this package, you're not going to fight two different factions, unless there's not enough tax reform for some and...

PERINO: Well, yes. That will be the test.

BOLLING: So there's probably a...

PERINO: Does it go far enough?

BOLLING: There may be a line in there somewhere where they can all meet up.

Anyway, all right, we've got to go. Stay there; stay right there. More to come in just a minute.



REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Obamacare is a law that is collapsing. It's hurting families. It's not working. Obamacare is the law of the land. It's going to remain the law of the land until it's replaced.

I don't know how long it's going to take us to replace this law. My worry is Obamacare is going to be getting even worse.


BECKEL: That was more from Paul Ryan earlier after an absolutely brutal day for the Republicans. The president was unable to secure the votes he needed for the bill to repeal and replace Obamacare.

You know, think about this. First of all, being in Washington for a long time, this is going to pass by very quickly. I mean, there's going to be other news stories. But is there really going to be a price, Eric, to pay for the Republicans for not passing this bill? I mean, they kept talking about "We've got to do this for our base" and all that. Or is the base going to say, "Well, you did the right thing. This was a bad bill"?

BOLLING: I think they're going to have hard times. I think the -- you know, the summer town halls. I think they are -- next year, they're going to have some serious hard times.

There was a big changeover when Obamacare passed. Remember, that's when the Republicans won the House. I think you're going to see a lot of that - - that movement. So, do they -- do they lose leadership? I don't know. That would be a tall order.

Here's the thing, though: Obamacare will collapse if nothing happens. I mean, you can still say, "Hey, we're formulating our replacement to Obamacare." But we're not going to let it collapse completely. We're not going to leave 26 or 28 million people out with no health insurance at all. There will be some sorts of subsidy, some sort of financing coming from Congress to help people until the Republican replacement that's acceptable can go through.

So the scare tactics that the Dems are playing right now, forget it; it's not going to happen.

BECKEL: Kimberly, does Paul Ryan stay speaker of the House?

GUILFOYLE: Look, I mean, you can try and spin it. This wasn't good for him and, I think, his political future. He's a bright guy, but this is something that he has been talking about and championing.

And, you know I think they should have made sure they had the votes. And they should have had the things in this that actually were going to get the votes. There was no mystery, really, in terms of what the Freedom Caucus was looking for.

So I think it's a very tough day for him politically and for the House members that were behind it.

BECKEL: How about you, Greg? What do you think? Should he stay?

GUTFELD: Yes, I think so. I mean, how did this all happen? If the GOP has conservative lawmakers in it, and Trump is a master salesman and he likes to close the deal at all costs. And so what you're going to have is you've got, in a weird way, President Trump is now the establishment going -- and the Freedom Caucus were the outsiders, the antiestablishment. So it's shifted.

BECKEL: OK. Dana, let me ask you a question about -- they went to great lengths to talk about tax reform being the next thing on the table, which is a much more popular issue. Given how fast news moves -- and you know this better than anybody else -- do you think they could be successful to move this thing, the next debate on to tax reform quickly?

PERINO: Yes, I think that they could. I think that they need to spend more than three weeks trying to explain that to the public. And they have to think about the headlines.

So one of the things that really hurt this effort was that CBO score that came out two or three weeks ago that said however many people, 24 million people were going to be without insurance; and that was a shock. So even though, in this past week, President Trump and Paul Ryan, they're trying to make it more palatable to the Freedom Caucus, and they were losing more moderate members. So they pushed on one side; they lost on the other side.

So on tax reform, I think there's probably more likely an ability to keep everybody together. But the headlines are going to be tough, because everyone is going to say, "How are you paying for it." And if the tax cuts aren't big enough, it's not going to be satisfactory to people. So it's not going to be the easiest fight, but they should be able to get it done.

'The Five' co-host says the speaker of the House led Trump to believe that the Republican plan to replace ObamaCare was ready to pass


BOLLING: Before we go, very quickly, Bob, you know, in thinking how long it took to get Obamacare through. It took time. So President Trump has been the commander-in-chief for 60 days, right? Sixty -- a couple days. They pushed that through.

And if they really wanted -- I don't hate Paul Ryan. So all you people saying, "You hate Paul Ryan." I hate what he did to the president. He led the president to believe that this thing was ready to be passed. It could have passed, but they needed -- Dana made a very good point. It needed a lot more discussion. It needed a lot more negotiating before they presented it.

PERINO: And explanations to the Americans.

BECKEL: OK. Good. Stay right there. More to come in -- on "The Five" in just a moment.


GUTFELD: Welcome back to "The Five." We're going to talk some more about -- no, just kidding. Let's do "Facebook Friday."

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: All right, let's start. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: He's going rogue right now. Do you have the votes?

GUTFELD: Yes, I have the votes. Gwen from Tallahassee asks, "What is your favorite kitchen utensil and why?"

PERINO: It's an electric water kettle. You know, like...


PERINO: Hot water kettle.

GUTFELD: Right, right, right. Saves a lot of time.


GUTFELD: Saves a lot -- you push a button.

PERINO: Yes. You make tea and...

GUTFELD: You can make all sorts of things.

PERINO: ... clean those sinks, things like that.

GUTFELD: Now, when you hold the handle, does it burn your hand?


GUTFELD: I hate kettles that burn your hand.

GUILFOYLE: Some of them. You have to wrap them in a paper towel. Grandpa does that.

GUTFELD: What's the point of that?

GUILFOYLE: You probably shouldn't get one that doesn't have a hot handle.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Do you have a hot handle? It's Kimberly Guilfoyle, ladies and gentlemen.

GUILFOYLE: Speaking from which you do not know.

GUTFELD: Eric, favorite kitchen utensil?

BOLLING: The colander.


BOLLING: You can't live without a colander.

GUTFELD: You can't. You put the salad in there, you put it under the water.

BOLLING: Shake it.

GUTFELD: If only you could clean your car like that.

BOLLING: And you can eat the salad in the colander.

GUTFELD: That's true, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: If it's cute enough, true.

BOLLING: You're home alone.

GUILFOYLE: It can be decorative and functional at the same time.


BECKEL: I never use any kitchen utensils. I use the microwave. That's -- that's the best I can do.

GUILFOYLE: That was a good one.

GUTFELD: That's a good...

PERINO: A great invention.

BECKEL: I don't know who invented it, but good for them.


Well, I want to know what Kimberly's favorite utensil is.

GUILFOYLE: Big -- big cook over here, so what I love is the toaster oven.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's an oven and a toaster.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's one-stop shopping. Let me tell you something. You can make pigs in a blanket.


GUILFOYLE: You can heat up mini-pancakes, mini-waffles.


PERINO: Pizza.

GUILFOYLE: You can make pizza. Open-faced quesadilla situation with the salami in it that I like. Or you can have a frozen burrito and cook it in there.

BOLLING: Melt a little cheese on a bagel.

GUTFELD: Yes, it reinvents the English muffin. I used to think, you know, toaster oven, make up your mind: toaster or oven?

PERINO: No, but it's brilliant.

GUTFELD: It is; it's brilliant.

GUILFOYLE: I think we're making people hungry.

BOLLING: Jumbo shrimp.

GUTFELD: Jumbo shrimp.

BECKEL: I want to congratulate you for going rogue on this.

GUTFELD: My favorite is the spatula. The spatula is great.

GUILFOYLE: Has a lot of functionality.

GUTFELD: You can do a lot of things with a spatula.

GUILFOYLE: You know what?

GUTFELD: That was my nickname in college, Spatula Greg.

BOLLING: Spatula.

GUTFELD: Hey, you want me to tease, you're saying? All right. Final thoughts next.


GUILFOYLE: Yes. Some final moments here on "The Five" on the failed Republican effort to repeal and replace Obamacare. Greg, you don't look prepared -- Dana.

GUTFELD: No, I didn't.

PERINO: I would say take the night, go for a beer, get up on Monday and come back and say, "OK, we can dust ourselves off and do something else." Like, I wouldn't wallow in it for too much. But I would think about it and how you're going to move forward and do this other stuff.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Perhaps some time -- resume building and working on job searches. Kidding.

GUTFELD: Work on a -- paint. Get a hobby. Put a ship in a -- you know, in a bottle. That's what I do when I'm sad.


GUTFELD: And then I -- anyway. My show -- I'm going to plug my show.

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Tomorrow night. Because I'm not going to talk about Obamacare at all. It's just all -- it's going to be all about fun stuff.

PERINO: Is that's why Jonah is in town?

GUTFELD: Yes. There's Goldberg. And it's Saturday, 10 p.m. Watch it. It repeats a lot, too. But watch it Saturday, 10 p.m. It's going to be great.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Spatula.

OK. Bolling.

BOLLING: So I'll plug tonight: "O'Reilly, 8 p.m." Going to be here live. We're going to talk to a bunch of people from the -- Freedom Caucus people and people who are in favor of that bill. We'll have both sides, and we'll take it apart.

Also, very quickly, today Devin Nunes, some really important news, came out today. He said he's going to call back, the Intel Committee -- the House Intel Committee is going to call back Jim Comey from the FBI and Admiral Rogers from the NSA to have further testimony about what they know on what kind of surveillance was going on.

And Adam Schiff, I want to just point this out. Adam Schiff a couple of days ago said that they have not circumstantial evidence, Kimberly, direct evidence of Trump administration and Russia. He said it, he threw it out there and he's kind of walking it back. I really want to know what he has. I have a hunch that he...

GUILFOYLE: And why he said that.

BOLLING: I think he's a little far out over his skis.

BECKEL: Yes, I think Nunes ought to decide whether he wants to be chairman of the Intelligence Committee or be a hack for -- for Donald Trump. He shouldn't have said what he said. But in any event...


BECKEL: Who's chasing after him?


BECKEL: Did you say someone was chasing after him? They'll kill them.


PERINO: No, no, no. No, no, no.

BECKEL: And the other thing is, if I -- if I had a beer. I want to have a beer and get over this thing.

GUILFOYLE: You don't drink.

BECKEL: I know. I would not be back. And that may be a good thing for a lot of people out there.

PERINO: Well, maybe just go socialize for a minute.

GUTFELD: Needlepoint. Stay off Twitter.


GUTFELD: Needlepoint and stay off Twitter. Twitter is the new needlepoint.

BECKEL: Has anybody ever figured out why it is that somebody can't get control over Trump and Twitter? He just won't do it? I mean, he just...

BOLLING: He hits 80 million people when he tweets.

BECKEL: I understand.

BOLLING: Eighty million.

BECKEL: But it has -- but it's hurt him in some cases, right? So -- well, you don't think the president...

BOLLING: He's president. He's president, and he's the news cycle every single day.

BECKEL: Well, you can be in the news cycle without Twitter, right?

GUTFELD: It helps.

GUILFOYLE: We've got to stretch. I mean, unless Bret wants to...

GUTFELD: I have another Facebook question.

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.


GUTFELD: If you -- if you lived in a zoo, who would you like to be your roommate?

PERINO: Giraffe.

GUTFELD: A giraffe? Why?

PERINO: Because it can reach everything.

GUTFELD: That's good.

GUILFOYLE: This is such a media Saturday coming to you early.

BOLLING: A panda.


BOLLING: So comfortable, so warm.

GUTFELD: Yes, they are. They are. And they keep to themselves. That's why there are not many pandas.

BECKEL: I would say a lion to keep the Republicans away.

GUILFOYLE: You always pick mine.

BECKEL: I'm sorry.

GUILFOYLE: I want to pick the king of the jungle.

BECKEL: I will say a tiger to keep the Republicans away from the front door.

GUILFOYLE: OK, well, I want the king of the jungle.

GUTFELD: There you go. You always get the king of the jungle. I'm going to say slow loris. You ever see slow loris? They're adorable.

PERINO: Quiet neighbors.

GUTFELD: Very sticky hands.

BOLLING: K.G., how do you toss to Bret's show after...

GUILFOYLE: You mean to a real show?

BOLLING: ... it's like this?

GUILFOYLE: So "The Five" robots are pretty much done. But don't worry; your brain will be filled back up. You know what's next. What? Guys, you guys are killing me.

BOLLING: Yes, read the tease.

GUILFOYLE: Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us, probably forever. "Special Report" is next.

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