CBO releases report on GOP health care bill

How much is the Republican plan to replace ObamaCare going to cost?


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 13, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."

How much is the Republican plan to replace Obamacare going to cost, we just found out with the CBO estimates. The Congressional Budget Office released its highly anticipated report on the American Healthcare Act a short while ago. John Roberts has it and joins us now live from the White House. John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS: Dana, I just want to flag that we are expected to hear from the OMB director Mick Mulvaney and HHS secretary Tom Price outside the west wing in just a couple minutes. So please interrupt me when you see that coming.

Three big numbers to keep in mind here from the new CBO estimate. First of all, $337 billion, that's the amount of money that will be saved between 2017 and 2027 by ending Obamacare subsidies, so Republicans will say, this is going to save an awful lot of money and it's going to lower the deficit. But here's the bad numbers, at least for the Republicans, you will hear Democrats talk a lot about this. Because of an end to Medicaid expansion and caps that will be implemented, the CBO estimates that 14 million more people will be without health insurance in 2018. And by 2026, that number will grow to 24 million. So that in total, 52 million people will not have health insurance by 2026, compared with 28 million if Obamacare stayed in place.

The other number to pay attention to premium increases, the CBO estimates that a single person not in a group, but that means a person is not paying in through a group health insurance at their employer or something like that, will see premiums rise in the years 2018 and 2019 by 15 to 20 percent. But the CBO also says because of provisions to pay insurance companies for people at high-risk pool will kick in at 20-20, the premiums will actually go down. The speaker of the house, Paul Ryan, is saying positive things about the CBO estimate. We will see what the OMB director and the HHS second have to say. But the big caveat that the Republicans are putting out there right now is that this is phase one. And that a lot of the cost-saving items will not come in till phase two and phase three. That's when they will try to lower the price of prescription drugs, sell insurance across state lines, and also do things to try to lower the cost of healthcare in total. So that's a snapshot for you, Dana. We will be hearing more about it in the next couple minutes.

PERINO: All right. Thanks, John. Thanks so much. Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price says the plan won't cost Americans more out-of-pocket.


TOM PRICE, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we are going through, understanding that they will have choices that they can select the kind of coverage they want for themselves and their family, not the government forces them to buy. So there are costs that need to come down we believe are going to be able to do it through this system.


PERINO: The president addressed the replacement effort at the White House earlier today.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The press is making Obamacare look so good all good all of a sudden. I am watching the news. Looks so good. They are showing these reports. And the Republicans frankly are putting themselves in a very bad position. I tell this to Tom Price all the time, by repealing Obamacare. Because people aren't going to see the devastating effects of Obamacare, so the press is making it look so wonderful. So that if we ended, everyone is going to say oh, remember how great Obamacare used to be, remember how wonderful it used to be. It was so great. The fact is Obamacare is a disaster. And I say this to the Republicans all the time, by repealing it, getting rid of it, ending it, everyone is going to say oh, it used to be so great. But it wasn't great.


PERINO: All right. I was in Africa for a week. I came back.


PERINO: This issue is still on the front page. I just want to ask you, Eric, to talk about this. And if I can set it up with more of what John Roberts was saying with regard to Paul Ryan's statement. He added -- Paul Ryan did. When people have more choices, costs go down. That's what this report shows. And as we have long said, there will be a stable transition so no one has the rug pulled out from under them. This is a tough number for them in terms of the headline, but do you think they will be able to actually drive home this message that they want people to hear, which is it is s phase one, and that we believe competition will drive down the price?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think they need to scrap this. Paul Ryan and the rest of the leadership pulled the wool over President Trump's eyes. They said it was going to be better, it's going to be cheaper, ensure the same amount of people at a lower price. And it's not. The CBO came out with basically the same price. We are talking $337 billion over 10 years. That's $33.7 billion a year. That's a drop in the budget. But one of the things that Obamacare was imploding, the ways we show that Obamacare is imploding in itself was that fewer people were going to be insured in 2026. That is true, 28 million fewer people would've been insured under Obamacare. The problem is, 52 million people are going to be uninsured under this plan according to the CBO right now. Is there a plan out there can work? Yeah. But you know, go back, start over, and come back with a plan that works. A Free-market plan takes into account competiveness across state lines, we were talking about that, total reform. Who is talking about total reform? Bring that out, too. I mean, malpractice insurance is killing doctors. The drug price needs to come down.

Here's a good one, how about making medical people -- medical providers post the costs of what they do online? I mean, do know how much it cost to have, I don't know, an MRI? Do you know how much it cost to have any sort of procedure?


PERINO: . not the doctor so much as the insurance companies.

BOLLING: It is both, Dana. It's both.

PERINO: Let me ask Kimberly. The president is sticking by them so far. The Republicans and what they would say is this is not taking into account the things he can do from the Oval Office as part of administrative actions to try to deal with some of the Obamacare plan that was in place. Because a lot of it had to wait until Tom Price got in position. Now he's there. There are amendments they can work through to try to improve upon the bill to get to the point where Eric is saying.


GUILFOYLE: Yeah. You want to -- yes, take him for his word, but also you would like to sort of see what the recipe is and know exactly what you're going to put in the crackpot, OK. So what people want him to say is listen, we rejected already this, what the Democrats put forward in Obamacare. So how is this markedly different, and in fact going to provide better quality services, more affordability? Eric touched on a lot of this, which is there has to be this competition you know across state lines. To me, that should be step one, not stage two, three, or some kind of you know amendment or order from the Oval Office. I think people want to know up front. I don't think the CBO numbers really help. I mean, listen, it's hard, Paul Ryan is trying to sell it all day long, but this shouldn't be that tough of a sale. The Republicans complained about this, they were tough on President Obama, and they should have been. But now, they need to deliver because this is catastrophic for the party if they don't get this pushed through in time, in 2018.

PERINO: Greg, I was thinking earlier today about obviously there's pressure on any president. There is particular pressure on President Trump because he can communicate to people like nobody else, but as he said last week, healthcare is extremely complicated. They are asking him to shoulder a lot of it.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know what CBO stands for Congrats Barack Obama. Because you know in these action movies, when the hero walks out of the enemy's layer and it explodes behind him. And the hero just walks away in slow motion? That was Barack Obama and the explosion was Obamacare. He left that behind because he knows that an entitlement, once you put it in there, it doesn't have to be any good, you are stuck with it. I think, at this point, Donald Trump could make this into a win by saying that you know Barack Obama made Obamacare, but he's going to make Obamacare great. Not again, because it never was great. I go back to my original metaphor which is that government program is bubblegum in your hair. You can't get it out once it is in there.


GUTFELD: You need to cut the whole thing out. Then you have a big blank spot there. Obama knows that. That's why he is not sweating it because he knows it's there forever. We have to be fair about this, it isn't phases. They are talking about competition. It comes later. They are doing it because of reconciliation.


GUTFELD: They are not going we better not do competition. they are trying to figure out a way through reconciliation.


PERINO: Bob, I don't mean to cut you off, but.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Yes, you do.


PERINO: I would never do this. There is a live press conference with Mulvaney.

BECKEL: Exciting. Thank you very much.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not do it all at once so we understand the whole package?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is being rolled out all at once. The fact of the matter is, we are working on the regulations right now. In fact, we had a proposed rule out that has been out there to narrow the windows so that the insurers are able to stay in markets they are having to pull out. Remember, one-third of the counties in this country, one-third in a county is over 1,000 counties, only have one insurer offering coverage on the exchanges. Five states only have one insurer offering coverage on the exchanges. You tell me, but that's plan was. The fact is that those folks have no choice whatsoever. The federal government has destined them to only have one opportunity to purchase coverage. If that's not what they want, then tough lock, that's not our plan. Our plan is to allow individuals the opportunity to purchase the kind of coverage that they want for themselves and their family in a market that allows them an array of choices so it suits them, not what the government tells them.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you encouraging lawmakers to disregard this report?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. We will read the report, look into the report, be on the top lines, and have further comment tomorrow and talk with our colleagues about why we believe the plan -- entire plan we have recommended moving forward and adopting is one that will provide greater opportunity for folks to purchase the kind of coverage they want and put patients and families and doctors in charge of healthcare.




PERINO: I got to tell you that I love a person that can call his own press conference, like that's it, because usually it is left of the press person to be the bad guy. I'm sorry. I was the bad guy and had to cut you off. Bob, the CBO says fewer covered, more expensive. What say you?


GUTFELD: Bob, wait a second. I am hearing there is a press conference right now. We have to go to NASA.



PERINO: It's a weather report?


BECKEL: Weather report. The real problem here is 58 million. It is not just for Democrats. Republican governors, they want to cut the Medicaid off, expanded in states, they are going to be very upset because they are going to have a lot uninsured people in their hands. In some ways, that's Obama's curse, when they expanded Medicaid like that. Now, all of a sudden, you're saying boom, they want to cut it. Conservatives want to cut it in 2018. That is real politics, that's real votes. The budget deficit, that's a drop in the bucket. I don't know if it's a campaign issue, but certainly, 58 million people do. And the government programs, you know, I have always said this. Once you get them, you can't get them back.


BOLLING: There's a great opportunity for President Trump to say look, you guys promised something, you promised that you are going to deliver to the American people something better. This is not better. We are not ready yet. Stay with Obamacare and let people eat Obamacare for another year, a year and half, and say look, in the meantime are going to find something better. Politically, the worst thing in the world to do is to try and push this thing through and have it be equal or worse than Obamacare.


BOLLING: Put this on the Democrats. You guys are the one who wanted Obamacare, you guys pushed it through. Now, we have it's and it's going to take us a little bit longer to replace it with something better. In the meantime, it's yours. If you go ahead and say we will do this now and fix it down the road, you don't fix it, you're going to get destroyed in 2018.


BECKEL: That would be better politics all the way around to say we're just not going to go forward with this thing. Trump against his own Republicans.


PERINO: He has been very thoughtful for months saying that it would be politically expedient yes, for me, to say hands off.


PERINO: He said it again today.

BOLLING: Leadership said they were going to deliver the complete house and senate with this replacement bill and they didn't have it. They thought they had it for whatever reason, but they never had it.

PERINO: If he does that, what you are suggesting, how do you actually put the blame on the Democrats if he is actually saying the Republicans tricked me?

BOLLING: In the meantime, you have Obamacare, which we know is in the process of imploding anyway. Let's not bail them out by turning the blame from Obamacare to Trumpcare when it's not. It shouldn't be.

BECKEL: You know, Ryan's argument here, over and over again, was if we don't do it now, we're going to get killed, right, because we promised our base.


GUILFOYLE: Ryancare.

BECKEL: Ryancare, right. But if you're going to say that, you need something that works. You know, he can force it as much as he wants but we are not too far off from the elections. And I will tell you, what Cooper said -- Senator Cooper from Kentucky is right. You don't want to walk this plank right now. Take it back, take some time, think about it.

PERINO: Then you end up with, what Greg was saying, probably nothing.

GUTFELD: Right now, Obamacare is the car up on blocks in your front yard and everybody has to tinker with it. It's not going away. And I don't see this as an apocalypse for the Republicans. It comes in phases and we're jumping all over them because they didn't put it all out. The reason they didn't put all at once is because they wouldn't get it through.

BECKEL: The 58 million is an apocalypse.


GUTFELD: The 58 million is an apocalypse, if you are counting on nothing else happening. That is like saying we are all going to starve to death that we don't eat dinner.

BECKEL: I'm just saying this is most expedient political number for the Democrats.


BOLLING: The most expedient political number, forget 58 million in 2026. Next year, 14 million people.

BOLLING: They will lose their healthcare under this plan.

BECKEL: What percentages Medicaid?

BOLLING: Whatever. Half.


PERINO: All right. We are going to have more on this later tonight on Fox News because Speakers Ryan will join Bret Baier at 6 p.m. for an exclusive interview with his reactions with the CBO scores. Make sure to catch that.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration just gave dozens of U.S. attorneys from the Obama era the boot. Past administrations have done the same. So why is there so much outrage now? Next.


GUILFOYLE: On Friday, President Trump asked 46 Obama U.S. attorneys to step down. Common practice for new administrations, but it sent the left and the mainstream media into mass hysteria.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This weekend, an abrupt changing of the guard at the Justice Department.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news surrounding the order for 46 U.S. attorneys to resign.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The abruptness makes this stand out.


GUILFOYLE: Let's refresh our memories. Former President Clinton and Obama did the same thing, remember that? In fact, Clinton had turned Attorney General Jeff Sessions fired back in 1983 when he took office. And there only seems to be outrage when it's a Republican president who makes this kind of move. Look at Politico's headline back in 2009, it said Obama to replace Bush U.S. attorney. A much less friendly headline for President Trump in 2017, Politico referring to it now as an ousting.

All right. So there we go. Let the verbal gymnastics begin, Dana. So you have some experience in this, specifically you've talked about it before, when this went on during the administration you are part of.

PERINO: Slightly different with me and I actually think that the Trump administration has handled it better than we did in 2006. The difference being it's not uncommon for the president when they first come into make the decision and Clinton did it. Everybody seemed to have forgotten that. Obama did it. The news media wrote it as if it was a release. The Bush U.S. attorneys were going to be removed. I don't give the White House any style points necessarily, no bonus for that, but I do think that the one thing that was a big deal in this case was Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney here in New York, did have a meeting with President Trump, did come out to the cameras and said he was asked to stay. He probably didn't think he was going to be asked to stay so who knows what he gave up in order to stay. And then, he finds out the rug is pulled out from under him. I think that's why he got a little bit more attention. But where the Trump administration did better than we did in 2006, after the midterm election, the president had decided to remove a handful of U.S. attorneys. I think it was seven.

And instead of saying they serve at the pleasure of the president and we're not going to answer any more questions about it, walk away. Instead, the attorney general at the time said it was based on an appraisal of their performance and we went down that rabbit hole over and over again. Huge scandal, people got subpoenaed. I was actually asked question by U.S. attorney in Connecticut about it under oath after I left the White House. So I think they did a lot better job. I would say this, if you fire all 46, that means that what comes up behind her usually first assistance, who are very qualified but they are not political appointees. These are career civil servants. So the goal of the administration would be how do you appoint 46 U.S. attorneys to be in there that are your appointees? It takes a while.

GUILFOYLE: It takes some time. So, Eric, obviously this is something that happens politically. What's your opinion on whether or not it's the right thing to do and you should be able to bring your own people in?

BOLLING: Let me just say, Maxine Waters in 20009 said I can't believe we haven't fired all of the U.S. attorneys yet, because there is always changing of the guards. So taking her example, yes, it was OK. Dana is right. They said let's get rid of all 46. Move those people out. The issue is that Preet Bharara is a high-profile U.S. attorney. He brings a lot of cases. At one point he had a meeting with President Trump. Nobody knows what they talked about or what they said. But when he was asked to tender his resignation, he said no.


BOLLING: And then he said fire me, and now what the implication is that he wants to run for governor of New York and he is going to use this fight with the Trump administration as part of a profile-raising situation.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, it's going to be tough because there is also Cuomo still involved in that mix, for him to be able to take him down.


BECKEL: He said now I know what it feels like to be, the commission that was investigating corruption in New York. And then, they were fired by Cuomo. You know, the two things that got him in trouble here. First of all, there was no reason for anybody to be upset about. It happens every time they change administrations. They should ask for them all on the same day. In this case, you've got a guy hanging out here. He's got a case somewhat connected to some of the Trump's business. So that's a big deal. It was announced on a Friday, why do you want to give him the weekend?


PERINO: That used to be a good time to do it.


BECKEL: I don't know, but not in this case.

PERINO: I agree.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it was on all weekend, the coverage of it, so it seems like a big political grandstanding. He says I'm not going to resign, you're going to have to fire me. But he seems to be aggrieved because he claims, Greg, that he was in fact told to say, but then, there was pushed back from the administration about it saying it's a misunderstanding.


GUTFELD: I don't care. I honestly don't care about him.

BECKEL: Your investigation goes away, though.


GUTFELD: Yeah. I think the alarming reaction over the firings is nothing, but good news for Trump. What is their alarm about? They are upset that lawyers were fired. Somehow I don't think America is going to get behind you over that same outrage. It's like oh, my God, you fired lawyers? What's next? Did you fire cockroaches?


GUTFELD: I mean, people don't have a positive view of lawyers.


GUILFOYLE: Cockroaches, that's a little much.

GUTFELD: I know. I am sorry, I know, you are a prosecutor. You are one of the good ones.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: I mean, the fact is lawyers getting fired in D.C., I think they're going to find work in D.C.


GUTFELD: They're in D.C. And the media playing Whack-A-Mole with all these stories, every story is more outrageous than the next. Then you look at the story and you go, oh, that's not a big deal. They did this under Bush. And you realize they are exhausting their outrage muscles and they're marginalizing their sincere outrage. So when something actually does happen, something big happens, no one will listen to you because you've cried wolf.


BECKEL: These guys will start cases right before the election, big time profile cases.


GUILFOYLE: They are all going to get jobs and white-collar law firms and become partners in make boatloads of cash. Fasten your seat belts, everyone because the Fastest Seven next.


BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for -- that's a little different, the fastest seven minutes on television, three audacious stories, seven agile minutes, one co-host.

First up, she is the first daughter. She is beautiful, she is successful, she is brilliant. According to Saturday Night Live, she is this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn't crave the spotlight but we see her. Oh, how we see her. A feminist, an advocate, a champion for women, like how? She is loyal, devoted, but probably should have bounced after the whole access Hollywood buzz thing. Oh, well. Also available in a cologne for Jerrod.


BOLLING: All right, KG, your thoughts.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, man. What can you say? Not nice, weird. Scarlett looked pretty, but I don't know what else to say about that. I mean, why are they taking hits at her? She's, like, the best thing going.


GUTFELD: Well, that's what you do. She's a target. Like it or not, she's an adult, and she's -- politically, she's out there.

However, Lorne Michaels and "Saturday Night Live" must be so thrilled that President Trump won, because if you look at their ratings, and you talk about Carrier, what Trump did for Carrier? Trump saved "Saturday Night Live'"s jobs. If it wasn't for Donald Trump, all of those hacks would be doing open mic nights in Scranton.


PERINO: I didn't think it was funny. I liked that during the campaign, one of the interviews she said, "I'm a daughter, not a clone." And I thought that was one of her more effective and genuine explanations for her role.

And I also feel like the White House could highlight a little bit more some of the things that she does. A couple of weeks ago, she had -- she hosted a meeting, encouraged her father to come, and he did, on human trafficking, an issue a lot of people care about. And it just got swallowed up in the other news of the day, but she's doing some good things that I think everybody could agree on, right and left.

BOLLING: Robert.

GUILFOYLE: And he called up on that, Dana, and it's been a big crackdown. So that's a good point.

BECKEL: I think it's a -- "Saturday Night Live" lives again because of the Trump administration. I mean, look, they've moved the whole show around it. So give them a couple more years of -- Michaels' got to die at some point, doesn't he? I mean, he's got to be 89.

PERINO: All of us will.

BOLLING: No, no. Not that old.

All right. Let's do this one.

GUILFOYLE: Where did that go?

BOLLING: Making the waves -- a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) making waves throughout the blogosphere today. The video is unremarkable through much of it until towards the end where the Snoop character assassinates the Trump-like character.




BOLLING: All right.

GUILFOYLE: That's horrible.

BOLLING: All right, Greg, you're a First Amendment protector.

GUTFELD: Let's do the obvious. Let's do the obvious. Because even if you bring up the corollary, people will be upset.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Kid Rock pulling a gun on President Obama. How about doing that? No one -- could you imagine somebody doing that? Maybe, I don't know, Ted Nugent pulling a gun on Hillary Clinton. Imagine that.

So it's like where is the liberal -- liberal outrage when it comes to civility?

Remember when Sarah Palin did the cross -- like, her...

PERINO: Target.

GUTFELD: .. emblem, looked like a target; and they said that that encouraged shooting? It's like I get art, but that's -- I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy is pretty obvious.

GUILFOYLE: Imagine if they did that with President Obama.

GUTFELD: Yes. Forget about it.


BECKEL: You don't get art for. You don't like being in Scranton. That's an artistic outlet.

GUTFELD: I love Scranton.

BECKEL: You know, I'll tell you, it's -- first of all, I had a drug dealer named Snoop Dogg, and he was -- he was arrested. He went away for 20 years.

PERINO: So did I. No.

BECKEL: You didn't?


BECKEL: OK. I didn't think so. But you know, you shouldn't be -- they shouldn't be making fun of shooting anybody, and particularly the president of the United States.

GUTFELD: Especially when you were acquitted for murder and some wonder why.

BOLLING: And Dana, some -- some kids. They watch this, they look up to Snoop. And man, talk about desensitizing.

PERINO: Right. What is it, that politics flows from culture? And they wonder why there's an incivility problem.


GUILFOYLE: I didn't like that at all. But I liked the dog thing, Scarlett Johannsen with the -- the Trump dog.


GUILFOYLE: Well, that was my favorite part of the show.

BOLLING: Oh, OK. All right.

Let's have a little bit of fun now. All right? So over the weekend, Van Jones and I did a celebrity boxing thing for charity. We flew to Vegas. Take a look. I'll just tell you how it went right here.

PERINO: You did?

BOLLING: Yes, I'm in the red gloves, because I'm a red-state guy. Van's a blue-state guy. I got them in the corner, I'm hitting him, and I'm actually -- look, I give him an elbow. And look what he does: watch this. He kicks me and knocks me out.

BECKEL: Did he really kick you?

BOLLING: No, I'm just kidding. That's actually orangutans in Thailand.

PERINO: I thought you were serious. I was going to be so impressed.

BOLLING: But the thing is, Dana, people are in an outrage over training the orangutans to box.

PERINO: Yes, I don't like this.

BOLLING: You don't like it?

PERINO: No, I don't like this.

BOLLING: No, anyone? Bob, you all right with this?

BECKEL: Yes, I don't know. I don't like using animals. I did it for a political commercial once, and all they did was rip up the set.

GUTFELD: The problem isn't actually what you're seeing on -- in the fight, because obviously, they're just acting. It's the training. What did they do to make them do the things they're doing?

GUILFOYLE: To elicit the response.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: So if they aren't doing it, do they get whipped? Do they get hit?

PERINO: Shocked?

GUTFELD: But in the shopping list of human outrage and world injustice, this is a little bit below ISIS, I would think. And Christians being massacred, women being executed or stoned. Gays being thrown off buildings. I would have my outrage up there, not so much there.

BECKEL: You had me buying that Van Jones thing, though.

BOLLING: Does it look like me and Van Jones? Come on, give me a break.

BECKEL: I can't see.

PERINO: It's hard to see.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. I can't. I'm not touching that.

BOLLING: All right. I'll tell you what, next time, I'm picking the stories for "Fastest Seven."

GUILFOYLE: Too long.

BOLLING: President Trump promised he's going to drain the swamp. He's preparing huge budget cuts to speed the process along. That's next.


GUTFELD: The media is reacting to Donald Trump's upcoming budget proposal.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt outraged, but I didn't scream and I didn't cry. And I need to.



GUTFELD: Yes. The Washington Post says that the proposal, quote, "would shake the federal government to its core, culling back numerous programs and expediting an historic contraction of the federal workforce." What language: "shake to its core," "culling," "historic contraction." It's like Trump is a tornado having a baby on the government's head.

The numbers aren't out, but my bet is the proposal targets just the edges of the budget, not the meat. It's like ordering the extra-large meat lovers pizza with four cheeses but holding the olives, because you're on a diet.

Look, the federal government is enormous; it never shrinks. And the interest is killing us. It's funny. You know, when you're running out of anything, like toilet paper, you notice that and you start using less.



GUTFELD: But you never run out of the budget. It's our giant invisible wallet in the sky. And so our bureaucracy turned into an episode of "Hoarders." The mess just keeps growing, and all we can do is remove one Glad bag full of toenail clippings.

But if we're going to spend, let's at least spend it on the stuff that guarantees the rest. Meaning new technologies that make us safer, the stuff that protects us from cyber, bio, and nuclear terror, as well as the toxic doctrines that drive such threats.

So if we're going to go into debt, let's do it on the stuff that matters: more protection, less PBS.

Bob, no one likes to do the hard work of cutting entitlements. Right?

BECKEL: Well, I was still on the toenails. I don't get that.

GUILFOYLE: Or toilet paper.

BECKEL: You know, it's -- this is tried -- every administration tries to do something. And the reason there are federal programs is the people behind them, and members of Congress, they protect them. It's not -- it's not a partisan thing. You know, they still have -- you know, a calf population (ph) department.

GUTFELD: I run that one.

BECKEL: Well, we don't want to lose that. That would be important.

But you know, they're going to try to do this. It's not going to work. Maybe they'll be flat on it.

The other thing is they're starting to cut things like the Coast Guard. I mean, you know, you've got to be careful with this. I mean, talk about the war on drugs and then you cut the Coast Guard. I mean, I don't get it.

GUTFELD: Eric, any surprises? Do you think there might be some stuff in there that will be larger than what -- like, I'm only predicting on what I think might happen, just on the edges. But do you think there will be something else going on there?

BOLLING: So Republicans and conservatives have pointed out that under President Obama, the eight years there, he doubled the national debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion. So all the presidents combined up until Obama had $10 trillion, and Obama had another $10 trillion.

The risk is, if you look at these -- I'm going to do a little bit of this in the "One More Thing," but if you look at the -- at the rate at which the debt is increasing, you have to -- you have to slow that down. Otherwise, in another eight years under Trump, you could have 40 billion. Not 30, not an additional ten but doubling.

So he doubled the debt. If you do it again, you're talking $40 trillion. At some point, that becomes unsustainable. So they need to, they have to be finding ways to cut the budget, to cut the deficit that we add onto the national debt.

BECKEL: How much interest is it at 40...?

BOLLING: Bob, it's 2.5 percent. So it's pushing $450 billion in interest.

BECKEL: Just for interest?

BOLLING: It would be the 26th largest economy in the world, just the interest.

GUTFELD: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Two get exceptions to this cutback, right, are immigration judges and Border Patrol. So we keep those, add some more, because that's also fulfilling a campaign promise.

GUTFELD: There's no way you can be reverse Santa Claus, can you? It's just too late.

PERINO: But the federal government, the actual workforce, the number of people working for it, has actually been flat for, like, the last 20 years.


PERINO: To Bob's point, it's hard to make additional cuts.

One thing that will definitely end up with fewer people is that the number of federal employees that will retire in the next -- in the coming years is really high, but that means that they will get their pensions. Which then you have to figure out, you know, make sure that you're funding that.

But a good solution for some of these jobs could be your favorite topic. Robots.

GUTFELD: Robots.

PERINO: Automation.

BECKEL: Yes, we've been trying to cut...

PERINO: When I came through immigration, you just go back through with the little passport thing. Ding, ding, ding. Like an iPad, done. I walked out. It was, like, so much more efficient.

GUTFELD: Imagine if your congressmen were robots, if your senators were robots, how much easier it would be.

GUILFOYLE: Imagine if your husband was a robot. I saw this on TV this weekend, where this woman's, like, in love and marrying a robot.


PERINO: What were you watching?

GUTFELD: I think that was a -- I think that was a biography on George Clooney.

All right. Next, did members of Hillary Clinton's team meet with Russians during the election? Vladimir Putin's spokesman reveals the answer ahead.


BECKEL: Nine days ago, our president recklessly claimed his predecessor wiretapped Trump Tower. He has only a few hours left to prove it. If Mr. Trump has any evidence, it must be turned over to the House Intelligence Committee today.

Vladimir Putin is hoping to diffuse all this by -- talking about team Trump's ties to Russia by sending out his spokesman, saying team Clinton was tied to Moscow, too. That's really interesting.


FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: ... meetings with Clinton campaign officials? Because I don't know of any.

DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKESMAN: Well, if you look at some people connected with Hillary Clinton during her campaign, you would probably see that he had lots of meetings of that kind.


BECKEL: I don't want you telling your wife this, but every Russian sounds the same to me. The...

GUILFOYLE: Helpful, isn't he?

BECKEL: Thank you. The other thing was that I said a week ago that the -- one phone call could get the answer to this. Trump could. And John McCain said the same thing over the weekend. You want us to resolve this? Pick up the phone and ask if there was a warrant. And he hasn't done that, I guess because he won't make anything today, and by tomorrow, it's going to prove what it was, which was an untruth.

GUILFOYLE: All right. "One More Thing" is next?

GUTFELD: I -- no, you know what I'm excited? I thought Kellyanne Conway had a great idea. A microwave that turns into a camera. Because that actually saves the step on Instagramming your dinner-for-one lasagna. You just press it, the food's in, your burrito. You get a nice picture of it. Don't you think that would be a great idea?

PERINO: Can I tell you a funny story about that?

GUILFOYLE: This is going well, isn't it? Going well.

PERINO: No, I was just in line the other day, and this young millennial was serving another young millennial, a boy to a girl, and as she was going through the food, he said, "Would you like some extra parsley for the Instagram?" And he was flirting with her. It was very cute, millennials in love.

BECKEL: You ever have a situation where I've lost control of the segment.

GUILFOYLE: Is this about wiretapping, Bob?

BECKEL: No. Say something about wiretapping. You've been -- about the truth.

GUTFELD: Who taps wires anymore? Is that how they do it? Is there a new way to do it now?

BECKEL: Oh, yes. You know, Samsung TVs. They got busted on the idea you could have that in your house.

GUILFOYLE: I know, they do. Mine turns on.

BECKEL: Everybody's got a Samsung.

GUILFOYLE: It's very strange.

BECKEL: I think they're related to...

GUILFOYLE: You have to -- you have to cover it, because otherwise, then they can see you. Like, literally, it will turn and throw back everything that's in that room. Or yes, it's not good.

GUTFELD: Have you ever seen the movie "The Ring"? Women actually come out of the TV.

BECKEL: You know, Greg, you were -- very strange segment.

PERINO: The stage manager has.

GUTFELD: Already seen "The Ring." It's going to make a great movie.

GUILFOYLE: You and Bob would know about that.

BOLLING: Is that on today?

BOLLING: I don't think they're going to turn over any information. I think the investigation is ongoing to find out who called for the wiretaps. As we know, there were two wiretaps requested, one in June to the FISA court. That was turned down. One in October that was accepted. And so whatever data they got, hopefully, they prove, you know, who they were tapping and who else got implicated in it.

GUILFOYLE: Kellyanne says that on "FOX & Friends," that the investigation is ongoing.

BECKEL: There's a source for you.

All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'm going to go first.


PERINO: I have a new thing. It's called "Dana's Question to The Group."

GRAPHIC: "Dana's Question to the Group."

PERINO: OK, I have a question for you. If you're on an overseas flight and you are with your partner, your spouse, and you are awake and that spouse is sleeping and snoring very loudly for a long period of time, would you, as a spouse, wake them up so that they stop bothering everybody else in the cabin?

GUTFELD: You draw on them.


GUTFELD: You get a Sharpie, and you draw moustaches.

PERINO: Like, the husband is awake. So this actually happened to me today.

Kimberly, would you wake the spouse?

GUILFOYLE: I would kiss him until he woke up.

PERINO: Oh, yes. OK. That didn't happen today either. Bob.

BECKEL: (MAKES SNORING NOISE) I'd put -- shoot him.

PERINO: OK, that -- guns aren't allowed on planes. This is a fantasy.


BOLLING: Absolutely.

PERINO: You'd wake them up?

BOLLING: Absolutely. Everyone has got a video camera, and they're all...

PERINO: Oh, I should have done that.

GUILFOYLE: Team player.

PERINO: Although I think they were from France, and they wouldn't have cared. OK. Well, that was a good first exercise of "Dana's Question to the Group."

GUILFOYLE: I think my...

GUTFELD: Sounded a lot like "Facebook Friday," and I'm upset, but I'll let it go.

PERINO: Sorry.

GUTFELD: Too late now, Dana.

PERINO: Kimberly, you go next.

GUILFOYLE: OK, mine is amazing. It involves killing versus kissing.

So after 21 years of service to the U.S. armed forces, the MQ-1 Predator drone is set to be retired from service. It's going to cease flying completely by July 1. Good news out there, because the American military will then begin to rely heavily on the more advanced, more lethal MQ-9 Reaper drone. So behold that beauty.

GUTFELD: I hear it's moving to Florida.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Official notes: so the more modern one is better equipped. It has overall superior operational capabilities, which means more accuracy. So I'm very excited.

GUTFELD: Limited abilities.

BOLLING: ... the first drone.


BECKEL: ... get into this like this?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, this is amazing. Right? Because this is -- we relied so heavily, your friend Obama, on Predator drones.

BECKEL: I know. That's why -- I thought you were always doubling -- on using drones.

GUILFOYLE: We've got a new and improved one for President Trump to unleash on ISIS.

PERINO: I love it. All right, Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: All right. Time for this.


GUTFELD: Greg's Disgusting News.


GUTFELD: This is terrible. If you have children in the room, leave. This is at the Cincinnati Zoo.

You've got three rare Malayan tiger cubs who were rejected by their mother and so Blake, the Australian Shepard. I like his name. Oh, it's Blakely, I'm sorry. Provided snuggling and comfort. Blakely does this for all animals that are rejected, including ocelots, warthogs, skunks and foxes.


GUTFELD: And sometimes Bob Beckel. The interesting fact about this is in six months, that tiger will eat that dog.

BECKEL: Exactly.

PERINO: That was actually pretty cute. When you say that they -- you have children leave the room, are you talking about the parents or the children?

GUTFELD: When you have children, leave the room. I just like watching children leave the room.

PERINO: All right. Eric.

BOLLING: OK, so earlier I alluded to this. So give me a couple of seconds on this. I think it's really important.

The GDP versus the debt. GDP, the last ten years -- get this -- GDP increased 34 percent from $14.1 trillion to $18.9 trillion. Look at it this way. This is what we have or make, and this is what we owe. The debt is what we owe.

Over that same period of time -- so GDP is up 34 percent. Over the same period of time, the debt increased 130 percent, from $8.7 trillion to $20 trillion. Now, this is ten years, not just the Obama years.

But the interest on that debt, $450 billion. That's the 26th largest economy in the world, just the interest on the debt. We're paying about two and a quarter percent interest rate.

But get this one. Here's kind of a fun fact. Apple has $246 billion in cash on hand in their -- in their bank account. Microsoft has $123 billion. Google has $86 billion. Do you know what we have as of today in the United States government?

PERINO: Oh, no. Only 34?

BOLLING: Thirty-four billion dollars. So we have an eighth of what Apple has.

PERINO: How do you get more -- now which number do you want to increase or decrease?

BOLLING: You want this one. You want the growth to go up.


BOLLING: But here's what's really going on. They wanted to keep this number. It's actually $19.998 trillion. They wanted to keep that number under 20 before they go for the debt ceiling increase. So they've blown through as much cash as they possibly can. Hundreds of billions of dollars in cash.

PERINO: I can't wait for the debt to...


BECKEL: The budget in the Carter administration was 110 billion total, the whole thing.

BOLLING: The whole budget?

BECKEL: The whole budget was 110 billion.

PERINO: All right, Bob.

BECKEL: All right.

PERINO: You have a board?

BECKEL: I do have a board, too, and this is -- I've heard from a lot of you about my -- my anger at Donald Trump. It ain't going away. But I did the five stages of grief. I decided I've got to get through this thing, so I went through denial. I still don't believe it.

GUILFOYLE: I think you sweated on it. It's rubbing off.

BECKEL: Well, that was you when you touched it.


BECKEL: Anger. Yes, I was angry; still angry.

Bargaining, no bargain here.

Depression. Completely.

Now acceptance. Now, for those of you out there who joined me in not liking this guy or the people around him, you've got to accept it. I've come to accept it. Otherwise, I would probably be dead in another 30 days from a heart attack. So we've got to cool down but stay in his way, trip him up.

And when people say to me, "Bob, don't you want the president to be successful?" And everybody ducks and -- my answer is no. I don't.

BOLLING: Yes, you do.

BECKEL: No, I don't.

BOLLING: He's your president.

PERINO: So all that good will you just...

BECKEL: No, no, no, I mean, because of what -- people said this about Obama, and it didn't bother me. The way you go about governing. If he gets away with doing something he's doing, then that will get -- that way the whole way.

PERINO: All right. I got this. Don't worry.

Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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