Rand Paul: House leadership's plan is 'ObamaCare lite'
Kentucky senator speaks out about health care reform on 'The First 100 Days'
This is a rush transcript from "The First 100 Days," March 3, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Breaking tonight. A stunning new report says that theirs is an active behind the team's effort underway by the Obama team to drag down the Trump White House. And also newly discovered picture shows meetings with the Russians and all kinds of folks on both sides of the aisle as day 43 of the first 100. I'm Martha MacCallum.
So, as you remember, President Obama promised a smooth transitions but this kumbaya was perhaps just for show as dozens of reports this week say background maneuvers by former Obama people lay trap after trap for the Trump White House. The New York Times claims that well-meaning staffers try to leave a trail so that investigators could follow it to find suppose in collusion with Russia. And while the attorney general maintained that it is actually typical to meet with ambassadors, it turns out that part is definitely true.
New pictures today showed Nancy Pelosi here in 2010 and Chuck Schumer with Vladimir Putin in this friendly shot. So with the Sessions stories pushed to force his recusal and potentially start the ball of string that could come with an independent prosecutor. Anthony Scaramucci, former member of the Trump transition team's executive committee and Austan Goolsbee who is former top advisor to President Obama on all of that, but first Fox News Chief Intelligent Correspondent Catherine Herridge joins us live in Washington with more on the alleged Obama administration action.
Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: The former senior intelligence official confirms to Fox News that the outgoing Obama administration was so determined, the investigation into Russia's meddling would not die when the Trump team took over that the data was widely circulated and archived. All calling this meeting with the president-elect excellent last November behind the scenes if was a different picture.
With the Obama administration appointees making sure the intelligence was classified at the lowest possible level so that the information could be easily accessed and by the largest number of people. And some of that concern was driven by the fear that has not been substantiated that the incoming Trump administration would hide or destroy records. And there was another departure in December when the intelligence community issued this final declassified report on Russia's interference.
Typically, these intelligence reports are closely held, and shared privately with congress and the executive branch. Fox News asked the house speaker if the Obama White House strategy amounted to laying traps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: Democrats are lighting their hair on fire to get you to cover this story to kind -- keeps repeating the same story. I think they're trying to get this coverage going. There is nothing new that we have seen here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: And tonight, a spokesman for the senate judiciary committee confirming they are not planning to recall Attorney General Sessions to testify about his failure to disclose two meetings with the Russian ambassador. The committee Chairman Republican Chuck Grassley said he will accept a written clarification, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Catherine, thank you.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: So is there really a revenge operation with the Obama administration going on? Noah Rothman in Commentary Magazine today writes this, "Media wants to draw blood from the White House. The Obama foreign policy team wants vindication. Theirs is a symbiotic relationship. Rothman argues the Obama administration's foreign policy team seems to be campaigning to rehabilitate itself. One leak at a time and the press is helping." Let's bring in Anthony Scaramucci, founder of Skybridge Capital and a former member of the Trump transition team executive committee and Austan Goolsbee, former top advisor to President Obama and a professor at the University of Chicago's Business School. Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you both here tonight.
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER TOP ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thanks, Martha. Thank you for having me.
MACCALLUM: Austin -- yes. This is the argument that's being laid out in this piece and in other places as well. What do you make of it?
GOLSBEE: Well, I kind of think two things. One, if what the group did internally is they actually saw the classified information that made them nervous, there would be nothing inappropriate about leaving that information in classified situations that people could find later. If what happened is if you look at the classified information, there's nothing there, then it would be a little odd that they would've left it. But the second is Donald Trump has come to this issue with kind of what I call a private sector lawsuit mentality, not with a political scandal mentality.
And by that, I mean, he's -- and it's not partisan. The Clintons used to do the same thing. He's come at it with the reveal nothing, say nothing, deny everything, and the problem with that is if you do that and then they find out little bits of information that come out, that drip, drip is a killer. The only way to put stuff like this behind you is to reveal every bit -- even the most extraneous, tiny information that you have. Because then your critics can be embarrassed.
MACCALLUM: And you say that defuses it, it pokes the hole in the balloon and makes it tougher politically. Politically. I understand the argument that you're making. Anthony Scaramucci, you know, your thoughts and, you know, what can you tell us about what the feeling is around Trump supporters about all of this? Is this, you know, conspiracy theory or is there something to this?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FOUNDER OF SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: Well, Listen. It's interesting week because George W. Bush is out there talking about his portraits of all these heroes and he set the gold standard, Martha for the way ex-presidents should handle new administrations which is say nothing and do nothing. And that's really to say nothing, do nothing the side to this thing.
And so, I think it's a shame that's going on. I think the president is fully aware that it's going on but I think he's referenced the people and the media that he can take it. At the end of the day, it's a blood sport politics. It's a crash contact sport. I think it is patently unfair. I think it's borderline unpatriotic because at the end of the day, each administration should be given the opportunity to create its own runway, its own honeymoon, and to a fact its own agenda.
MACCALLUM: And in fact President Obama said that that's what he wanted to do. He wanted a smooth transition.
SCARAMUCCI: You could say that.
MACCALLUM: You mentioned President Bush who said, you know, that President Obama deserved his silence. He said, it's a tough job and he deserves my silent, which I thought was very, you know, interesting. But the thinking is in terms of foreign policy, I just want to get the sense that there's, you know, an effort on the Obama administration to sort of write right what maybe have gone wrong with Russia, the notion that they weren't tough enough with Russia. The notion that they weren't tough enough with Syria and that so much bloodshed happened in that wake of that. Quickly Anthony and Austan.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, just quickly, they also -- they went out of Iraq, they claim that they didn't have a SOFA for agreement then they had to put 8,000 more troops in Iraq without the SOFA agreement. And so, there we a lot of mistakes made, Martha, President Trump deserves the opportunity with his team to project his own agenda and it would be more patriotic if the past administration to step aside now the way George W. Bush did for them.
MACCALLUM: Got it. All right. Austin, are they trying to correct the record?
GOOLSBEE: I don't think these are not about the details of those. You're not seeing any litigation over the Iran deal. You're not seeing litigation over those subject issues. I mean, I think you guys are maybe drifting into the -- living in a bubble if you do not recognize that there have been some heavy blows to the credibility of the foreign policy team of the Trump administration that Sean Spicer, the president himself and several of the leading foreign policy figures have said things that have been come out to be demonstrably not true.
And that they've had both correct the record and they've had to fire people for giving misinformation. Whenever that happens, you have got to come forward and get that information and let the air out of balloon.
MACCALLUM: I think that's fair.
GOOLSBEE: Otherwise it's just going to (INAUDIBLE)
MACCALLUM: I mean, you're right. I mean, Michael Flynn is no longer in his job because of what transpired with all of this and it didn't look good that the attorney general didn't cite the meeting. All of that is absolutely part of the record. But, you know, in terms of this story that, you know, it's of tangential of Valerie Jarrett potentially moving in to the Obama's house in Washington which, you know, sort of caught a lot of attention and, you know, it's becoming a nerve center, his house in this, you know, sort of swanky district of Washington, D.C.
You know, I think everybody would expect him to live in a nice place there. I'm not begrudging that, of course. But Austan, you know, are they, you know, sort of getting together to try to work -- do they feel like resisting the President Trump -- President Trump is something that they need to do, should do?
GOOLSBEE: Oh, I don't -- I haven't spoken to the president since he's been out of office, so I don't know what the deal is. I know Valerie Jarrett goes on vacation with the Obama's and has for years, their oldest family friend. So, I don't think the fact that she moved into this large house, if that's true, is necessarily sign of anything.
MACCALLUM: Anthony, final thoughts?
SCARAMUCCI: I hope she's focus on helping them write those two books that they got that big contract on, Martha and stay away from the Trump administration.
MACCALLUM: Record deal for the two books. Thank you so much gentlemen. Good to see you tonight.
GOOLSBEE: Thank you.
SCARAMUCCI: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So still to come, and plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare is a top priority for Republicans on Capitol Hill. But many lawmakers including within the GOP claim that they're being left out of this process and they not too happy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: What do you say to the critics who say you're just doing what Democrats used to do and that's cramming legislation down the throats and kind of the dark of night not in a transparent way?
RYAN: Are you kidding me, Bret? Give me a break. Seriously?
BAIER: I'm just telling you what they say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Senator Rand Paul says pretty much that. He's here to respond to the speaker next. Plus shocking new video from a college campus where students kick a distinguished scholar from speaking after literally shouting him off the stage and then his car was shaken physically as he left the property. Unbelievable story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight. Growing frustration on Capitol Hill as there still appears to be no plan quite yet to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Kentucky Senator Rand Paul says that the bill is being hidden, even went on a hunt to try to find it with his staff in the lower reaches of the capital. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, you're not allowed to be in this area.
SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KENTUCKY: I'd like a copy of the bill, so what you are telling me is that you won't give me a copy of the bill? We're here today because I would like to read the ObamaCare bill. If you recall, when ObamaCare was passed in 2010 -- 2009- 2010, Nancy Pelosi said you'll know what's in it after we pass it. The Republican Party should not act in the same way.
MACCALLUM: (INAUDIBLE) Trace Gallagher is with us as well from the L.A. Newsroom. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Hi, Martha. Senator Rand Paul's healthcare hide and seek is motivating some Democrats to say that even Republicans don't know where the bill is. Of course, Democrats are mounting their own Capitol Hill search looking for a copy with some theatrics thrown in like Democratic web steady Hoyer confiding in the former Republican president. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STENY HOYER, UNITED STATES. REPRESENTATIVE FOR MARYLAND: Mr. Lincoln, I can't find the bill. I know, Mr. Lincoln, you are as upset with your party as I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Drama aside, it's certainly not unusual for the majority party to write bills with little or no input from the minority. Just think back to how Republicans lambasted the Democrats over the Affordable Care Act in 2,900. Key lawmakers say they will work through the weekend to fine-tune the bill that next week, two powerful house committees will vote on the repeal legislation, including the energy and commerce committee which has jurisdiction over Medicaid and the ways and means committee which oversees tax legislation.
The full house is expected to vote late this month. As for what's in the elusive bill, Politico says the latest draft includes new tax credits for individuals based on age, but not allowing wealthier Americans to qualify for assistance. Conservatives had call that 'ObamaCare lite.' Also the plan to phase out the expansion of Medicare is still in the draft, but those grandmother plans, you know, the ones that apparently didn't need coverage requirement needs under the law, those will also be phased out. And by way, the information from Politico prompted Rand Paul to tweet the reporter asking if he could get a copy of the bill. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Trace. So, just moments ago and special report, Bret Baier, asked House Speaker Paul Ryan about Senator Paul's Capitol Hill hunt and here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN: You know, I like Rand but I think he's looking for a publicity stunt here. What's happening is the committee's jurisdiction are drafting legislation and getting feedback from their members. That's exactly how legislation is supposed to be written. The things he described are just not accurate. And like I said, when the committees write their bills and put their bills out there to mark up, everybody will see what they have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Republican Kentucky Senator Rand Paul joins me now. Senator, good evening. Good to have you with us today.
PAUL: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Your reaction, he said this is just a stunt and it's up to the committee who has jurisdiction and you're not part of that committee.
PAUL: Well, I think it's actually more about substance than anything else. My concern is a little bit about transparency but a lot about substance. I'm annoyed that we're getting the bill from Politico and not from the leadership of either the house or the senate. The fact that the bill is sort of somehow being leaked to the media organizations or then leaking it back to interesting legislature s is not the way it should be done.
But my substantive difference is with house leadership plan is I think it is ObamaCare Lite and I didn't sign on to vote for a new government program. And I will tell you three things that I object to. Number one, it has refundable tax credits when you get someone else's money. This is a new entitlement program and this is similar to subsidies. In fact, I'd say it's a Democrat idea dressed up in Republican clothing.
They also have a new tax similar to the Cadillac tax virtually identical to the Cadillac tax that was in ObamaCare. I didn't sign up for new taxes. And then the third thing is they have an individual mandate in there and the individual mandate instead of you paying a penalty to the government if you don't buy insurance, you have to pay a penalty to the insurance company. And this isn't a market situation, this is a law that says you will pay a penalty to the insurance company. That to me is an individual mandate and I thought all Republicans were opposed to the individual mandate.
MACCALLUM: I want to play Mike Pence, the vice president earlier today, because it does feel from these comments as though you and people who believe as you do are being left out of this process. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) see the bill (INAUDIBLE)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Coming soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get some food. By the end of the month?
PENCE: Yes. I'm just -- I have to tell you, I'm just very grateful to Speaker Ryan, to leader Mcconnell. The hard work that Dr. Price is doing in his new role. And we expect in a matter of days and you're going to being to see a very brisk pace of legislative activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: I spoke earlier this week, Senator, with Mitch McConnell -- with Senator McConnell and I said to him, you know, Senator Paul is interested in something that would give -- block Grants in Medicaid back to the states to bring it to more state control and out of federal hands. I said, what are you in favor of? He said, I'm in favor of a bill the president will sign to repeal. He said, everybody needs to be in favor on the Republican side to back a bill that the president likes and the president will sign. What do you say to that?
PAUL: I think there is consensus for repeal. So, for example, about a year ago we voted, everyone in the senate except for one senator and everyone in the house, I think, on the Republican side voted for a clean repeal. There is still consensus on a clean repeal. The question is if you add replacement to it and if replacement is ObamaCare Lite, there is no consensus on it. So what the house leadership is going to put forward if they are not careful will not have the votes to pass, so we are trying to tell them in advance to save the embarrassment, let's negotiate now with conservatives, and let's try to have something that conservatives can vote for.
I have a way to do that. Separate the bills. Have a complete repeal by itself and have replacement by itself, and there are a variety of replacement bills --
MACCALLUM: Well, the fear is that you're going to get a repeal bill past and replacement will take forever and might never happen. But how many people -- let me ask you this, Senator.
PAUL: No, I do it on the same day. I would do it -- I would do it on the-- I would do it on the exact same day.
MACCALLUM: I hear you. I don't know if the second part will pass or not. How many people do you think feel as you do? In other words how many votes are there in the senate for the bill -- I know you couldn't see it and you couldn't get it in your hands but as far as what you know in it, how many people will reject along with you?
PAUL: I think -- well, I can tell you that the house freedom caucus which I think is about 40 conservatives have voted to support my replacement bill. But I have also voted to -- vote for complete repeal, what we voted on about a year ago. There were three senators this week, myself, Senator Cruz and Senator Lee who came out and said that what we voted on a year ago is the minimum. We're not voting on less than that.
Now, they will have to judge and everyone will have to judge is the house leadership plan more or less than what we voted on in 2015? That's a real key determinate here, but I would rather have the discussion now. My main goal in bringing this out, I want to find consensus to repeal ObamaCare, but I don't want them giving us ObamaCare Lite, because I think that is a problem and I don't think it passes.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I think a lot of people share those concerns. Senator Paul, thank you very much. Good to have you here today.
PAUL: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Coming up next, a brand new Trump Twitter war. The president takes on fellow New Yorker and Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer for going after the attorney general's meeting with the Russian Ambassador. "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace joins me on that. Plus, a judge is help -- is accused of helping an illegal immigrant escape out of the back door of the courthouse. Unbelievable story. That's straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So President Trump taking to Twitter to hit back Democrats for what he calls an ongoing witch hunt, tweeting this picture of Senator Chuck Schumer. That was out earlier today. And this is what it says. We should start an immediate investigation into @senatorschumer and his ties to Russia and Putin. A total hypocrite with exclamation point. The Senate Minority Leader promptly fired back tweeting, "Happily talked about my contact with Mr. Putin as associate. It took place in '03 in a full view of the press and public under oath, would you and your team? Question mark.
Chris Wallace, host of Fox News Sunday. Chris, good to see you as always. Good evening to you. I mean, a little bit of a Twitter hiatus around the time of the speech on Tuesday night but he seems to be back at it and he and Chuck Schumer are getting into this Russia thing.
CHRIS WALLACE, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST: Well, now there's another Twitter fight with Nancy Pelosi, because they found she had said that she never met with Russian Ambassador Kislyak and they found a picture of her in a meeting with a bunch of Russians including Kislyak and he accused her of lying. I don't think this has been politically wise for the president. I know it feels good. I know he feels aggrieved at the idea that any meeting, that anybody that he -- in his camp ever had with the Russians, no matter how innocent becomes, you know, this big issue, this big firestorm.
I'm sure it feels good for him and I'm sure it feels good for his supporters, but, look. He needs message discipline at this one. We're talking about this, we're talking one more day about the Russia issue when we should be talking about ObamaCare repeal and replace, about tax reform, education reform, his trip to Florida today and he's leading that. So to the degree that he's breathing oxygen into a history he doesn't like, it seems to me it's counterproductive.
MACCALLUM: Oh, I mean, it is a great point. And it does keep the focus on it. And we watch these tweets come out throughout the course of the day and Schumer goes back at him and it pulls the conversation, the gravity of it pull the conversation right back into that arena. In terms of the underlying issue with Senator Sessions, do you think this is done, Chris, what's your feel in Washington for how much longer this goes on?
WALLACE: If you're talking specifically about Sessions, not the whole issue of Russia and Trump, I think it depends on if there's any more information, if this is as far as it goes and there is no more -- no new meeting or no new information about the meetings that we already know about, then I think his recusal probably takes most of the steam out of this one. On the other hand, if tomorrow there's a front page story in the paper or we report that there's some new information about Jeff Sessions that we didn't know about then I think he's in a world of trouble.
MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, what's interesting, we keep thinking that we're going to get the update on the extreme vetting travel ban. And it keeps getting pushed further and further. Here is president Trump talking about this around the time that the first one came out on January 27th. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, if I would've been done in a month, everything would have been perfect. The problem is we would've wasted a lot of time. And maybe a lot of lives because a lot of bad people would have come into our country.
MACCALLUM: He's talking about how it's so urgent to get this thing done and enacted, so now it's not enacted and suddenly it keeps getting pushed. Now it's into next week.
WALLACE: I think you make a great point here, because there was talk that it was going to happen last week, then it was going to be this week, then we were told, well, the reason that it isn't going to be this week is because the president had this triumphant speech to a joint session of congress and they wanted to keep the focus on that. Now we are hearing next week. And you`re exactly right. It's a direct contradiction to the urgency that he said there was to this travel ban which the whole point was that there are bad dudes, bad hombres out there and will be given more time then they're going to get their act together, they all fly to this country with a visa and they will be inside to attack.
But, you know, you can't make that argument about the urgency of this if you're willing to put it off because he want to have a few more days to bask in the success of the speech to the joint session of congress. Now, maybe they've have gone up the rack together, maybe the real problem is they can't find the secret sauce to find something that will get through the courts but I've got to think by now they would've figured that out.
MACCALLUM: Yes. One last tweet from President Trump. He said "it's so pathetic that the dems have still not approve my full cabinet." This one came in, you know, large caps. It's not that way there, but the way it looked on Twitter. What do you think about the fact, I mean, he had a few more people through this week, but they're still not done and there're still a lot of positions that are still not filled, Chris. Is this a problem for him?
WALLACE: Sure. You need your staff around to run the government. And it's not just cabinet positions. It's also sub cabinet positions, deputy secretaries, assistant secretaries. There is something like 500 positions that need Senate confirmation.
Now in fairness, part of this is on him, because he's only nominated 35. And about half of those have been confirmed, half of them haven't. But there are a lot of people, I mean, Rex Tillerson at state wanted a deputy secretary and the White House said no. And...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: Mattis, General Mattis had the same problem at the Pentagon.
WALLACE: Yes, exactly. And you know, there is this micromanaging and yes, I understand they want loyalist on the Trump team. But on the other hand at a certain point you've got to say to the secretary of state or defense, or whatever, you need somebody to work with to help you run the department.
And if they are talking about the swamp here, it's pretty hard to drain the swamp when you just got one secretary, one lonely secretary and nobody else from the Trump team and the department.
MCCALLUM: Yes, and at some point, if you have so much faith in these people at the head of these agencies, you have to let them pick the people that they want to have around them as well, just as the president wants you to do.
Chris, thank you so much. Great to see you though. We will see you on Sunday.
WALLACE: You bet. Thanks, Martha.
MCCALLUM: Still breaking tonight, you are looking live at the Four Seasons Resort in Palm Beach, Florida, where President Trump is expected in any moment. We have an eye on that. He's going to be at the RNC spring retreat dinner tonight. You can see the group outside.
We're going to continue to monitor, we'll bring you any updates as we get them throughout the evening.
And coming up, free speech under attack on a college campus when a well- known author is shouted off the stage, they turned their backs to him. He had to be secluded in a separate room. And then they showed his car back and forth as he got out of town.
Unbelievable story. We'll bring you that in a moment. Plus a judge presiding over the case of an illegal immigrant is now accused of helping him escape out of the back door as ICE agents waited. Attorneys David Wall and Francisco Hernandez hit on that right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCALLUM: Developing tonight. An Oregon judge is under investigation after allegedly helping an illegal immigrant escape. The federal authority the man was in court facing a drunk driving charge. ICE agents were waiting outside, but he never left. Now investigators are trying to figure out if the judge slipped the criminal out a back door.
David Wall is an attorney and Trump supporter, and Francisco Hernandez is an immigration attorney. Welcome, gentlemen. It's good to have you all here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, E-Mac.
MCCALLUM: So, if this is indeed what happened, Francisco, what should be done to this judge?
FRANCISCO HERNANDEZ, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Well, it's not what we do with the judge. What's concerning here for all your constitutional experts, is you have the executive branch of the United States government invading the judicial branch.
That just sets a whole new precedent where ICE flock on their way to the street for the guy or go to his house. Why is it important to go to the court other than invading the judiciary? Once we cross those lines or the separations of powers, we are going into a whole different culture.
MCCALLUM: But you know, the law was not broken. If he's here illegally and they have in order to remove him, then that -- they are carrying out their job. And the judge certainly should stand in the way of them carrying out their job. David, what do you think?
DAVID WALL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, her allegiances, if true, where clearly with a Mexican national and not with upholding the laws and the Constitution of the United States. Yu know, worst-case scenario for this judge, she could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting a fugitive, obstruction of justice, accessory after the fact.
And I've got to tell you, if the best-case scenario, Martha, is that she is suspended or removed from the bench by the Oregon judicial council or whatever the formal organization is. I know judges. I know of judges who have been removed from the bench for far less than this, Martha.
So I just hope she has a really good lawyer. If this is true, it just doesn't get any worse for a judge.
HERNANDEZ: I will represent her pro bono. But are we not concerned about the mixture of the three branches of government? What, are we going to send ICE into Congress and tell them what they should legislate?
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: The details are a little bit fuzzy here, I will grant you that. But it appears that he went out a door. They were outside. So, you know, I don't know if it makes a difference legally if they are outside they are or they are outside at home. Why would that legally make a difference?
(CROSSTALK)
HERNANDEZ: Well, I guarantee you what happened, Martha.
WALL: Because it's not in the...
MCCALLUM: Hold on, David, you go first.
WALL: The prosecutor -- the prosecutor probably tipped off ICE that this guy was illegal and was subject to deportation said they showed up in the court, that's what they do. They've got jurisdiction to go to the courthouse. This makes it more efficient for them to do their job.
(CROSSTALK)
HERNANDEZ: No, it's not.
WALL: So it's not a matter of mixing the branches of government or anything that any one branch now offending the other through their actions, this is something that's done.
MCCALLUM: So, he got away.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: And so the judge to allow him at the back door.
HERNANDEZ: I'm guessing...
MCCALLUM: And then to clarify it. I'm sorry. So he got away, and then a couple of weeks later he was taken into custody. And he was there on a DUI charge, and you know, under these rules that exist, if you have -- you know, he's got two strikes against him, Francisco. One is that the DUI and the other is that he's here illegally. So, it's ICE's job...
(CROSSTALK)
HERNANDEZ: Fair enough.
MCCALLUM: ... to remove people in that situation. Right?
HERNANDEZ: Fair enough, yes. That's fair enough. But not in a court. What if the judge, what if a Supreme Court justice went over to the White House into Oval Office and started deciding cases at the Oval Office? That would seem kind of weird, wouldn't it?
WALL: No.
HERNANDEZ: It's got a place...
WALL: That would be up to the -- that would be up to this gentleman's lawyer to take some kind of action in federal court that somehow ICE was, you know, invading on territory they shouldn't been. It's not up for a judge to let them slip out of the back door. If that's what she do.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: Yes. We really didn't expect the judge to stand in the way of law enforcement. That's the bottom line I think.
WALL: That's obstruction of justice, it's that important.
HERNANDEZ: ICE doing there in the first place.
MCCALLUM: Thanks to you, guys. Francisco and David, good to see you both.
HERNANDEZ: Thanks a lot.
MCCALLUM: So still ahead tonight, it's Friday. So it's time to grade week number six. Chris Stirewalt, Zac Petkanas, and Mollie Hemingway they have their red pens out. So what grades will they give the Trump presidency this week?
Plus, free speech stifled on a college campus. Wait until I show you the extent of this videotape when a distinguished scholar was shouted down. Guy Benson and Richard Fowler fired up on this one and ready to go when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCALLUM: So free speech on campus took an ugly turn when a scholar from the conservative American Enterprise Institute was shouted down by students at Middlebury College in Vermont where he was invited to speak. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCALLUM: That won't help. Guy Benson, editor of Townhall.com, and Richard Fowler, senior fellow at New Leaders Council. Both are Fox News contributors. Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you both here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.
MCCALLUM: Charles Murray is a well-known author, and he came to speak to the students. He was invited to speak there. Afterwards, they physically shook the car that he and the other woman who was speaking with him were in.
And let's just pull up a tweet from Charles Murray to give people more of the full picture of what happened here. He says, "This is how the Washington Post reports on the out-of-control mob that physically assaults a speaker and a professor."
He went on to say that the Middlebury administration was exemplary, but he says me students were seriously scary. Richard, let's start with you. Your thoughts on this whole thing?
RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: Thanks for having me, Martha. Here's the thing. I think this is a question of -- it's the question of freedom of speech and the right to protest, right? And what these students were doing here is they were saying that this is what Mr. Murray's views aren't accepted at the campus.
And beyond the fact that he's written some works now. I think what these students are actually talking about was a 1994 book he wrote called "The Bell Curve," which indicates that there's, you know, people -- certain races that are genetically superior to others and that's why you have poverty in communities of color, which these students denies and disagree vehemently because it speaks to supremacy.
Now should he have been able to speak? I would like to hear what he says, I disagree with everything, but I think these students still have the right to protest. And in that right to protest is what makes our democracy so strong.
MCCALLUM: Yes. Guy?
GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: All right. Let's not soft pedal this at all. The students who are responsible for that pathetic display of intolerance are sniveling, ignorant children. They're miniature little neo- fascists who think that they are against fascism. They're liberals in their own minds. They fancy themselves liberals but their tactics are profoundly illiberal.
Not only did they shut down the event, shouting 'shut it down' in the spirit of open discussion apparently. They also proceeded to win, getting the whole thing canceled, and then physically assaulted a professor, a female professor trying to escort Dr. Murray away from the venue.
MCCALLUM: They did.
BENSON: They put her in the hospital with a neck brace. And as you said they rocked the car back and forth.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: Well, they should be prosecuted for that.
BENSON: I mean, that should be -- that should be -- there should be consequences for that conduct.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: Yes. But here is the underlying academic -- you know the book "Coming Apart" is a very well-known book, and it talks about in many ways the dynamic that created, perhaps, the Trump presidency. It talks about white families and religion and family values and all of those things and how for many people that has sort of separated away from lifestyle. And the impact that he thinks that that had.
Don't you think, Richard, that that would have been a pretty valuable conversation? And in fact, the young man who was with the American Enterprise club at Middlebury stood up and very eloquently at the beginning of this said, look, we have meetings every week, we get together with people who disagree on politics and we hear each other out. What a wasted opportunity these students gave themselves that night.
FOWLER: Well, here's the thing. Like I said, I don't think the students are reacting to that book, and I think it's a very, very stretch to call it neo-fascist, right. I can't speak to, I haven't seen any evidence of this professor being harmed. And if she was harmed, that's awful. And those books she was prosecuted...
(CROSSTALK)
BENSON: She was sent to the hospital.
FOWLER: Wait a minute, Guy. But the truth of the matter here that these students have the right to protest, and their protest should be protected, right, just like, you know, Mr. Murray's speech should be protected.
(CROSSTALK)
BENSON: Yes, there was...
FOWLER: But wait a minute! Let me finish. Right? And so what I think you have here a situation where this guy released a book that I would argue was vile, "The Bell Curve," in page 94 where it said why people are genetically superior to African-Americans. That book is problematic. They protested it and I support them.
MCCALLUM: Well, they didn't give him a chance to state his argument or hear him out or ask him questions about it.
(CROSSTALK)
FOWLER: Because their argument makes no sense.
MCCALLUM: That's it, shut the door.
FOWLER: They're saying that, you know, media -- you guys are more superior than me.
MCCALLUM: Those who don't have conversation. We got to leave it there, but I think it's a wasted educational opportunity and you can walk out and say, you know, I think you can disagree. So, that's, you know, one of the opportunities that they missed.
Thank you, guys.
All right. Coming up, we've got to grade everybody this week. Chris Stirewalt, Mollie Hemingway, and Zac Petkanas are here to do just that. Right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCALLUM: It is Friday night, folks, and that means it's time for our weekly report card of the Donald Trump presidency and his administration. But first, here's a look back at some of the week's big moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The time for a trivial fights is behind us. I am asking all members of Congress to join me in dreaming big and bold and daring things for our country.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, R-CALIFORNIA: The top cops in our country lied under oath to the American people.
JEFF SESSIONS, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have now decided to recuse myself from any existing or future investigations of any matter relating in any way to the campaigns for President of the United States.
TRUMP: I am calling for one of the largest defense spending increases in history. Education is the civil rights issue of our time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCALLUM: So, how's he doing? Chris Stirewalt, our Fox News political editor, Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at the Federalist, and Zac Petkanas, senior DNC adviser who help who honed their Trump war room. Good to have all of you with us tonight. Good to have you here.
Zac, let me start with you. First time on the show with us, so thanks for being here.
ZAC PETKANAS, DNC SENIOR ADVISOR: Thanks for having me.
MCCALLUM: What did you think of the Trump administration week?
PETKANAS: I give it a very solid d. And the only reason it's not getting an F is that the speech on Tuesday met the bar that a trained monkey would have to meet up for it to be a good speech. You read from a teleprompter...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: You are the tough teacher.
PETKANAS: ... and didn't -- and didn't -- and didn't cause a scandal. So, that's why he's getting a D. But within less than 24 hours after that speech, he was mired yet again in more scan involving Russia. When we learned that members of his administration were in communication with the Russians at the same time the Russians were helping him get elected. And that's why she gets a D.
MCCALLUM: OK. Professor Stirewalt.
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, after Zac, I mean, I feel like...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: You feel like -- you feel like...
STIREWALT: Super easy. Yes, I'm the (Inaudible).
MCCALLUM: Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I was looking for. I need to come up with it.
STIREWALT: So, look. It was a two administrations in one. We saw the Donald Trump in a lot of people, Republicans and Democrats, independence alike have been hoping that they would see. The long promised pivot, arrived in the speech that was smooth, well-delivered, optimistic, contrast to his inaugural address. And I mean, people got really excited about it.
But then as Zac point out, the week took a turn and could've been really perilous, except for the fact that Democrats are bad at this. They overplayed their hand with Trump and gave him Republicans an opportunity on the question of the Russia stuff by saying, by making it seem like there was real something bad happening here with Jeff Sessions.
They overplayed it a bit. I'd say I give Trump and the administration a C for the week, and basically a letter an A and an F averaging out to a C.
MCCALLUM: Very tough graders tonight. Let's go to the western sieve teacher, Mollie Hemingway. Mollie, what do you think.
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, SENIOR EDITOR, THE FEDERALIST: That speech was masterful, it made his critics who say he is un-presidential look like they themselves were unhinged, he communicated his message. A ton of people watch it. The market responded really well.
The Sessions thing, I thought Sessions handled it pretty well and he put the issue to bed very quickly. The White House itself for seeming to understand how big of a problem the media are and how much the Democratic industrial complex in bed with the media, they didn't push back as much as they could have, and you would've liked to see more fight.
And it would also have been nice to see a little bit more fight from Republicans on the Hill. But there is the issue of staffing the administration. And staffing it people with who aren't just high-quality but who share the vision of the Trump and administration.
So, word came out...
MCCALLUM: It's been tricky.
HEMINGWAY: ... that General Mattis wants to put in and Patterson, who was Obama's ambassador to Egypt, she was very much involved with the foreign policy there that was deeply unsatisfactory to everybody.
Trump's appeal is that he does have a different foreign policy vision and he needs to make sure he has people who execute that well. Mattis himself seems to be at odds at Patterson. So, it's a very weird and somewhat disconcerting thing to see that kind of conflict there.
MCCALLUM: I got you.
HEMINGWAY: Overall, I would say veto, it was a really solid week for the administration. They just need to improve a bit.
MCCALLUM: All right. I want to circle around one more time on this notion that there is, you know, a Trump war room. Talk about that for us, Zac, that is pushing back, that is resisting, that is laying, you know, that the tea leaves out for the ball string that they want to have a prosecutor that will be hanging over this administration for some time. Truth to that?
PETKANAS: Well, what we believe is that there needs to be independent investigations into the connections between the Trump campaign, Trump officials, and the Russians. We know that there's investigations that are being conducted by the FBI, the CIA, the Senate and House intelligence committee.
We need independent investigations that are outside of the realm of Republican chairman who has succumbed to pressure by the White House, to run block and tackle for them.
MCCALLUM: So you think the FBI and the CIA are up to the job.
PETKANAS: The FBI reports to the Department of Justice and the Department of Justice has shown that they are shills for this White House.
MCCALLUM: I've never heard that before. Chris, what do you think?
STIREWALT: They've got to figure this out there they've got to stop having Russia stuff come out. And the fact that they have not at this point done a thorough, hygienic cleansing on this issue that they have let this continue to drift out is not good news.
They've got to get serious. I, earlier this week said that it's time for them to a appoint for themselves an independent counsel, somebody who can go through the administration, find out if there is anything wrong, and then issue a report.
And say to the American people look, we checked, it's OK, this is closure, and move on. Otherwise, you're going to continue to leave the door open for Democrats to take advantage.
MCCALLUM: Less than half a minute, Mollie, what do you think?
HEMINGWAY: Well, obviously there is an orchestrated campaign to send a message about Russian meddling, and Zac knows that well. It goes back to the campaign.
What's also true that so many of these stories have been shown to be completely fraudulent.
MCCALLUM: OK.
HEMINGWAY: It was just there was a private server that was connecting with the Kremlin. So the White House does need to be more aware.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: We have to go.
HEMINGWAY: And we also have to be aware of how the Obama and administration has put in special -- have tried to make it so that they could have a special prosecutor here, there are lot that the Trump administration needs to know.
MCCALLUM: OK. Thank you, guys. Great to see you. Since it's Friday, a little celebrity news to send you off with. It is hasta la vista for former California governor and movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger who today was not fired but did called it quits as the host of "Celebrity Apprentice."
I wonder what the president and former Celebrity Apprentice CEO thinks about this. Do you remember? Last, in January? Wow, the ratings are in and Arnold Schwarzenegger got swamp or destroyed by comparison to the rating machine DJT. Arnold, so I wish you the best of luck as president. We will see you, have a great weekend.
Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox