Battle over ObamaCare begins on Capitol Hill

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 4, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five"."

The battle over ObamaCare begins, both sides strategizing today on the fight ahead. Republicans have the power to repeal President Obama's health care law. Vice president-elect Mike Pence made a trip to the Hill earlier and said it's going to happen.


VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT MIKE PENCE: What's clear here is the American people have spoken. They want to see us repeal and replace ObamaCare and today my message to the members of congress is that we are going to be in the promise of keeping business. And the first order of business is to keep our promise to repeal ObamaCare and replace it with the kind of health care reform that will lower the cost of health insurance without growing the size of government.


PERINO: On the opposite side of the aisle, President Obama tried to protect his legacy. He went to the Hill. He met with Democrats to plot a strategy to keep his signature law from being dismantled.


REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., HOUSE MINORITY LEADER:  Republicans say repeal and replace. The only thing that has going for it is alliteration. They have no replacement plan. To repeal and then delay is an act of cowardice.

We have a values debate on our hands. It's very personal in the lives of the American people, and say make America sick again? Is that what the Republicans want to do? I certainly hope not.


PERINO: Well, Greg, she's got her slogan, make America sick again.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Looking at that dress, it's like Pepto-Bismol. You know what, I love the fact that they say, you know, all the Republicans, they have no replacement for ObamaCare. They have no replacement for Obama. He's like the quarterback that's leaving college and they have nobody to replace him. They didn't think about it for next season.

PERINO: But thankfully he's not moving out of town.

GUTFELD: That's true. He's going to stick around. He's going to be like (INAUDIBLE) infused. He's going to hang out in the parking lot and hit on the younger chicks.


GUTFELD: Look, I do feel bad for President Obama because in a way, he is like somebody who's watching his Ferrari being repossessed and he's looking out the window, and except it's not a Ferrari. It's a pinto about to explode because ObamaCare is such a mess. You know, even his press conference tells you how bad big government is.

If Schumer is saying like if you remove one piece of it at all falls apart, it's like a game of Jenga. And if it's that bad, it tells you how bad big government is. That a centralized -- some kind of centralized monstrosity. Once something breaks, it's a calamity whereas in a free market, something else comes along.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Well that's what they removed. The Democrats removed the one thing that was going to keep premiums down. It was competition. So they took that out and they said you have to have it and what the opposite actually happens.

So you keep -- you're to keep your doctor, premiums are going to come down by $2,500 per year per families. The opposite happened. Doctors fled. You lost your doctor. Premiums went up $2,500 per family per year.

And so the Republicans have said yes, were going to repeal it first. First to repeal then to replace it with something that works for both sides. This makes the most sense and it will include competition across state lines, I'm guessing. Allowing more doctors to come in and paying them more.

So part of the problem is, like a jacked up Medicare system and Medicaid system, that's what ObamaCare is. The doctors are saying I'm not going to take ObamaCare. I'm going to go private practice, not take ObamaCare or I'm leaving completely. So you bring those people back in and that will bend the cost. That will truly bend the cost curve down.

JUAN WILLAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I think it's exactly the opposite and in fact I think competition was certainly at play when we saw premium rates skyrocketing previously without ObamaCare which is why the Democrats likely to bring it into place.

And what we've seen subsequently is a tremendous drop in terms of premiums paid by people who have -- get health care from their work, from their employers, from their workplace. So, I mean, I don't think there's any question here that's benefit to it --

BOLLING: The premiums should not have risen by $2,500 per year.

WILLIAMS: No, they -- the premiums -- what did I say, Eric? I said about people who get their insurance, which is more than 80 percent of Americans, get their insurance from their employers. Those premiums have gone down at a record rate in terms of the rate of increase so that we --

BOLLING: No, whoa! There's the trick.

WILLIAMS: What's the trick?

BOLLING: The premiums haven't gone down. The rate of increase is going down.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

BOLLING: Premiums are going up there Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.


PERINO: You and Juan just going to have to call it cut.

BOLLING: Of course, right.

WILLIAMS: The rate of increase was 80-something percent. You go down to 30 percent, you say, oh, there's no -- that's a tremendous benefit. In fact in this morning --

BOLLING: It's also inaccurate.

WILLIAMS: -- "The Wall Street Journal" there was an op-ed by your friend Ezekiel Emanuel pointing out how -- because I know you despise him. But I'm just saying, pointing out that big companies and people who benefit from those lower rates of increase are numerous.

PERINO: I found that Ezekiel's op-ed a little hard to swallow.

WILLIAMS: Well, I --

PERINO: I mean it came really --

GUTFELD: I didn't even read it like most of America.


PERINO: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: You can tell.

PERINO: One thing I noticed is that the Republican sort of have a tiger by its tail, right. So, they're going to have to figure out a way to deal with this in a way that is keeping people calm and reassured but delivering the change they voted for.

And you saw that Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, even Kellyanne Conway all being very careful to say we are going to do this responsibly. We don't want anyone who has insurance now to not have insurance. We're going to be careful.

I think that they're trying to just reassure people that they're not going to be without insurance. That's not the goal of this. It's to figure out a way to bring in more competition and bend the cost curve.

GUILFOYLE: And I think they're being honest. I don't think they want people to be without quality health and medical care. I don't think they want people to be struggling and have this whole abyss where they fall into because there's a gap in between.

I think they are being sincere when they say they want to do this in a responsible, respectful way, which is what is required. So , there is something here that really needs fixing. They made a promise to the American people. They have to see it through.

Now, in terms of the tiger by the tail, it's more like they've got a kitten or something by the tail since Schumer is just not that scary. He's on another network last night, making a promise I think that he cannot keep. That he was going to do also his best to delay Supreme Court picks. He's making a lot of promises.

PERINO: Will you play that sound?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, we'll play it now.

PERINO: OK, this is Chuck Schumer last night talking about all the opposition to come against Donald Trump.


SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Mr. President-elect, you went after both the Democratic and Republican establishments when you ran, but by your cabinet picks in your early pronouncements you seem to be embracing the timeworn, shopworn, hard right. The only way we're going to work with him is if he moves completely in our direction and abandons his Republican colleagues. Ninety to 95 percent of the time we'll be holding his feet to the fire and holding him accountable. But we're Democrats, we're not going to just oppose things to oppose them.


PERINO: And yet you had Senator Manchin today -- Democratic senator from West Virginia who is up for re-election, decide not to go to the meeting with President Obama because he thought it was too partisan. Listen to this.


SEN. JOSEPH MANCHIN, D-WVA.: We had the existing outgoing president coming up, speaking on to Democrats today and we had the newly elected vice president coming in speaking in to the Republicans. And I said, you know, we've got to start this dialogue and start building some type of relationships.

So, I said I'm not going to go. It will be counterproductive. I'm just not going to do it. I just did what I felt I was supposed to do and that's basically start building relationships and bringing America together, not letting Democrats and Republicans stay apart.


PERINO: SO Greg, there's a senator trying to resist the team sport politics of health care.

GUTFELD: Well, I wasn't listening.


GUTFELD: But anyway, I've got to be honest. No, I was listening.

GUILFOYLE: He's a mature adult in the room that you said looks like Joe Theissman.

GUTFELD: I don't care anymore about ObamaCare. It's really hard to talk about it because we all know it's a bad thing. It's a corpse in the room. And it's hard for conservatives because, as a conservative, you should be against pre-existing coverage because, you know, you don't buy car insurance after you get the accident to pay for the accident. The point of insurance is you get it before you're sick. But you can't win on that argument anymore.

BOLLING: But that's why we are talking about it.

GUTFELD: You know what I mean?

BOLLING: You're 100 percent right because the left is painting it like hay, the GOP is trying to take the 20 million people who are now insured, try and take their coverage away and I think that's what this whole meeting was today. Relax, we're not pulling the rug out from underneath your feet, but we are going to revamp and bring competition in. May I throw one more number in --

GUILFOYLE: We are going to pull the bandage off.

BOLLING: Pull the bandage off, right. But here's the other number. So these insurance companies, because they have now gone down in some places where there is one option for an insurer -- one -- no competition. Some there are none, but where there is one they say, look, we'll keep these premiums rising but at a slower rate, but we're going to stick it to you on deductibles.

And that's what exactly what they've done. So, total outlays for health care over the year in annual outlays are still skyrocketing. You're not paying it in that premium. You're paying it when you use health care in the first, I don't know, five or six or 7,000.

PERINO: Which is keeping (ph) people from using it.

BOLLING: Which keeps people from --

PERINO: Which is OK, right. People have skin in the game and they know how much it costs --

WILLIAMS: Exactly. That's why you want that. So you talk about competition. Let's talk about the fact that more and more Americans, they're setting records for the numbers of Americans who are signing up for ObamaCare, the Affordable Care Act, right now.

BOLLING: Are they paying though?


BOLLING: Are they paying customers?

WILLIAMS: Well, yes, there are people who are signing up --

BOLLING: No. Well, the people are signing up and getting it for free or highly subsidized.


WILLIAMS: They highly subsidize. Most of Americans are highly subsidized who get ObamaCare but that's not the point. The point is people want this - -

GUILFOYLE: It's kind of is the point.


GUILFOYLE: Somebody has to pay for it.

BOLLING: Who subsidizes?

WILLIAMS: Let me finish for once. So you have -- who subsidizes when you have unpaid tier (ph) when people go to the hospital, they have no insurance, you and me, Eric. So let's talk about something very real. "The American Medical Association" says, hey Republicans like Greg Gutfeld, you are so hateful of ObamaCare --

GUTFELD: I am not a Republican. I'm not.

WILLIAMS:  You said you're a big conservative --

GUILFOYLE: He's not.

GUTFELD: I'm not Republican.

WILLIAMS: All right, big conservatives like Greg Gutfeld. They hate ObamaCare. Oh yes, the AMA says, well, can you do something responsible, like tell us what you want us to replace it with -- the tiger by the tail as Dana calls it. And guess what, Republicans -- and this is not like oh, it's a new subject, we just brought this up. Republicans have no idea about how to replace it. Instead they say, well, what we may do is wait two years, three years, four years.

PERINO: No, I don't think that's what they are saying.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's what they're saying, Dana. Eighteen months to three years at a minimum, all right, at minimum.

GUTFELD: I've heard about choice.

WILLIAMS: Even Rand Paul, Senator Paul -- Republican, says it's irresponsible to repeal without replace.

GUTFELD: Well, the fact is -- OK, number one, Republicans have talked about choice, have talked about competition, private savings accounts, so the idea that they haven't said anything, you're being (INAUDIBLE).


GUTFELD: And I just heard an apology.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, what competition. No competition --

GUTFELD: Competition between state lines.

WILLIAM: Before Obama there was no competition. No competition. Blame Obama. Thanks, Obama.

PERINO: When government gets -- this is what happens and Obama knew it. As soon as the government gets a little bit bigger, it's hard to make it smaller again.

BOLLING: You're forgetting one key aspect of this whole thing. It's going to cost a trillion dollars. It's going to cost the taxpayer a trillion dollars. That's a new cost to taxpayers.

WWILLIAMS: What is going to cost them?

BOLLING: ObamaCare.

WILLIAMS: OK, if ObamaCare exist --

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you just give a speech about.

WILLIAMS: What you're talking about, you don't even have a price tag because you don't have one.

BOLLING: Thanks Obama.

WILLIAMS: No, here's what you're going to have, Trumpcare. That's what Obama said today when he was meeting with the Democrats --

BOLLING: And we didn't have a free market for health insurance prior to ObamaCare.

WILLIAMS: No we have. Of course we did.

BOLLING: No we didn't. No, you can't sell insurance across state lines.

WILLIAMS: Oh, and that was Obama?

BOLLING: New Jersey can't compete with New York.

WILLIAMS: No, that was a pre-existing rule put in by other people.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Trumpcare, you should buy the gold package. That's my recommendation.


PERINO: The good news is we will be able to talk about this a lot more and Greg, you'll have lots of chances to talk about ObamaCare. Coming up, president-elect Trump continues to push back against the intelligence community over Russian hacking findings. His latest jab, when "The Five" returns.


GUILFOYLE: U.S. intelligence determine Russia was behind cyber-attacks to disrupt our election, but President-elect Trump is still casting doubts. He's openly expressing a lot of skepticism about the findings. He suggests there's been a deliberate effort to delay a briefing on the matter tweeting, "The "Intelligence" briefing on so-called Russian hacking was delayed until Friday, perhaps more time needed to build a case. Very strange!"

While the intelligence community is pushing back. One U.S. Official is disputing this claim saying the briefing had always been scheduled for Friday. And here is more from John Brennan and John Kirby


JOHN BRENNAN, DIRECTOR OF THE CIA: There is no intelligence community worldwide that has the capability, the expertise, and capability as the U.S. intelligence community. And so I would suggest to individuals who have not yet seen the report, who have not yet been briefed on it, that they wait and see what it is that the intelligence community is putting forward before they make those judgments.

JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: President Obama and this administration is 100 percent certain in the role that Russia played in trying to sow doubt and confusion and getting involved through the cyber domain into our electoral process. There's no question about that. The information is there and it's rock-solid.


GUILFOYLE: OK, so, a little bit of conflicting information back and forth but it sounds like Friday is the day. Greg, you're making weird ostrich faces.

GUTFELD: No, well, I've heard and I don't know if it's true.

BOLLING: It is true.

GUTFELD: That John Podesta's password was password. That's like writing your pin number on your debit card --

PERINO: One, two, three, four.

GUTFELD: -- or like -- is it one, two, three? -- or taking the key to your apartment and putting it under the flower pot right next to your door on the front porch. That is not hacking. That's not hacking. That's barely even phishing. Like a terrier could have done that.

GUILFOYLE: All right, so since you said --

PERINO: (INAUDIBLE) going to figure it out.

GUILFOYLE: -- we're going to ask for a little word from your favorite person, Julian Assange. Let's roll it.


JULLIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER, WIKILEAKS: We published several Podesta emails which shows Podesta responding to a phishing email. Now, how did they respond? Podesta gave out that his password was the word "password." His own staff said, "This email that you've received, this is totally legitimate." So, this is something a 14-year-old kid -- a 14-year-old kid could have hacked.


GUILFOYLE: Al right, we're going to have more on that tonight. Part two of the interview with Sean Hannity at 10:00 p.m. eastern and Julian Assange. Do not miss it. OK, so could it be more obvious? Do you even know anybody that has password as their password (ph)?

PERINO: I believe that is true but I just don't trust Assange. I don't like WikiLeaks. I don't defend it. I'm not on that train in any way. But I believe that that is true. That John Podesta has very weak security to say the least or no security. I also believe that Podesta's emails are not the reason that Hillary Clinton lost the election.

GUILFOYLE: Also true.

PERINO: And so, there are -- I just feel this is so bewildering. I think that having an argument with the intelligence community in public about what date the intelligence briefing is going to be on is unnecessary. And I'm looking forward to, I think 16 days from now when the new administration is in place and you have hopefully the CIA director will be confirmed by then.

Get everybody in there and calm this thing down because I don't think it's good to have a public dispute between the incoming president and the intelligence community over something like this. I don't think it's necessary.

GUILFOYLE: All right, so Bolling, what do you say about this?

BOLLING: Strike one using password as your password. Strike two --


BLLING: -- giving it out to a random email request, and strike three, having your staff concur that, oh yes, it's a good one. Don't worry about it. Go ahead and give your password out. It's amazing (INAUDIBLE) and Assange points out that even a 14-year-old -- what?

GUTFELD: Assange could have done it.

PERINO: Well, it's a guy who told him that it was a legitimate email. He said it was a typ.

BOLLING: Oh, it's a typo.

PERINO: He said that he meant to write illegitimate and that it's the thing that keeps him up at night.

BOLLING: I agree with Dana. It's not a good thing to be fighting with your intel community, but I would also like to see that the firm, you know, specific smoking gun evidence that they in fact -- the Russians did in fact hack. And if they did, OK, so --

GUILFOYLE: But we want to know.

BOLLING: -- take appropriate actions. I'm not sure they should be at this point because Dana also appropriately points out that if I didn't have (INAUDIBLE) anyway, so slap them. Do what you got to do. But if we're going to say the Russians are the only ones doing this, we're out of our minds. There are hundreds of them including stage actors who are doing it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, yes, that will be intelligence naivet,. Right, absolutely. OK, so do you just wonder the many reasons why Hillary Clinton lost the campaign? The architect of her demise, John Podesta, password, "password."

WILLIAMS: I don't know, look, I think that's pretty funny. I agree it's pretty ridiculous. That's no security --

GUILFOYLE: Bad decision making.

WILLIAMS: But it's not, I mean, look, the fact is that his staff told him it was legitimate. Then he does the thing and then it unravels.

GUILFOYLE: But can he figure it out.

WILLIAMS: But that's not the point here. The point here is we have a foreign government interfering in an American election.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: That's not good stuff. I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat. We should not be tolerating this. You can't book this kind of behavior and then go back and say, well, I don't think this really affected the election. Well, you'll never going to know because guess what, there was one side that had a constant stream of innuendo, rumors, speculations - - did you see this? Can you counter (ph) that? Oh my God, Hillary Clinton, what about the Catholics? What about Podesta and this person? What about Juan Williams and his phone number? I think this is crazy. It is not fear because there was nothing from the RNC, nothing from the Trump campaign and so it makes one side seem like they're quite suspect. You know, I don't know about that Hillary Clinton. I don't know if she's trustworthy. Boy, you should have seen those numbers during her campaign.

BOLLING: Juan may be one distinction we should make is that this is a hack -- alleged hack to the DNC, not a government entity, right. The DNC is a private group. It's not part of the government. It's not funded by the government. So, there is less of a case for the United States to take action against Russia because they had said they didn't hack into the State Department.

WILLILAMS: Wait minute. Hold on, hold on.

BOLLING: They didn't hack into the White House. They didn't hack --

WILLIAMS: Are you kidding me? The Democratic National Committee is part of the government. That's like going back to Watergate and saying, you know that Nixon, so what --


BOLLING: Right. I'm just saying it carries a difference to -- in my opinion, a different retaliatory penalty.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know what's actually what you should be outraged about, and I hope I don't have this wrong, but Teddy Kennedy. Do you remember Teddy Kennedy commiserating with the USSR and may be the KGB in order to undermine an election? Was it Reagan's re-election or was it Bush? I can't remember this. Somebody at home knows what I am talking about.


GUTFLED: No, no, no. But I mean, talk -- there is precedence for this and it was the Democrats and it was Ted Kennedy actually talking to the USSR about undermining an election. I know I'm right. I just can't get the facts right.

GUILFOYLE: Check Twitter. Have your phone over. OK, Dana.

PERINO: The last thing I want to say is that the Democrats are trying to soothe themselves with this notion that Russia interfered in the election. I'm sure that Russia was up to no good but -- so Russia interfered in the election and therefore that's why she lost.

I think they're trying to reassure themselves with that. They're trying to delegitimize the Trump presidency and I think he's right to push back on that. The thing about the emails is that the Democrats are not at all taking responsibility for the thing that I think really did lead to the untrustworthy numbers, and that was that she set up her own private email server.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but you can do that. You can say, OK, so she made a mistake, and that's like talking about the charities and say, oh, what about Donald Trump's charities or what about Donald Trump's (INAUDIBLE)? None of that comes out and everybody says --

GUILFOYLE: But they have a war room set up now to attack all of that after the fact, got it? Greg, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: -- yes, none of that comes out. But you know what, but I don't think Dana, to your point --

GUILFOYLE: -- got it? Greg, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: -- I don't think that the Democrats are trying to, you know, calm themselves by saying, oh, it's because of the Russians. I think the bigger point here is foreign governments should not interfere in American elections.

GUTFELD: Ted Kennedy secretly asked the Soviets to intervene in the 1984 elections according to "The Federalist." So, it happened before.


WILLIAMS: Not good.


GUILFOYLE: OK. All right. Thank you for that. And next, some advice from Greg for all the critics out there who wish president-elect Trump would give up tweeting when he takes office. Stay tuned.



GUTFELD: I wish there was another celebrity video tweeting to sop Donald Trump from ruining the world. Oh, here it is.


Hunger games guy: Dear members of Congress.

SALLY FIELD, ACTRESS: Dear members of Congress.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concerned for my children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm worried for everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority of Americans regardless of who they voted for --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- did not vote for racism --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- for sexism --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- or for xenophobia. And yet Donald Trump won.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We demand that you vigorously oppose him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We demand that you block nominees who threaten the rights of women --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- the LGBT community --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- people of color, immigrants and the poor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we want you to know that we are with you.


GUILFOYLE: This is so ironic (ph).O

GUTFELD: Oh, I want to throw up. That's humanity for progress, a title that seems as legit as good people for peace or thoughtful stars against diarrhea. Typical of the demonizing left. The name Humanity for Progress suggests anyone who disagrees must be inhuman or against progress.

Clearly they are worried. And can you blame them? Donald Trump wakes up, tweets, and then stuff happens. He's on a third rail that they can't touch. It's as if the cool kids are now on the outside looking in, their faces pressed against the glass. It's exactly how half of America felt eight years ago when Obama marched us toward progressive Armageddon, gloating all the way. I guess this is payback. Chucky's response:


SCHUMER: Making America great again requires more than 140 characters per issue. With all due respect, America cannot afford a Twitter presidency.

We have real challenges, and we have real needs to get things done, and many Americans are afraid, Mr. President-elect, that instead of rolling up your sleeves and forging serious policies, for you, Twitter suffices.


GUILFOYLE: My goodness. He needs a teleprompter.

GUTFELD: "Rolling up your sleeves?" These aging hacks must be the only people left who still say "rolling up your sleeves." It's a cry from the diminished and irrelevant. Lost at sea, they cling to the same old baggage rejected by the American public.

Pity. Their side lost two months ago, and they still haven't figured out why. You could tell them it was the endless tantrum of identity politics and the paralysis of will that it caused. It was their own fear of the PC monster that they created and an American public who grew tired of being scared.

That's the hole that they dug, and each celebrity video only makes it deeper.

Do you know what's funny, Eric? It's not like Trump has done anything yet to tick them off. It's like he hasn't -- what has he done?

BOLLING: Well, he has.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he won.

BOLLING: Yesterday -- he won, right. Yesterday, he tweeted twice. One time, he tweeted he got $700 million worth of investments to stay in America instead of going to Mexico. And the second time he tweeted, he got the ethics committee gutting stopped by the Republicans.

GUTFELD: That's what I'm saying. They should like that.

BOLLING: They should absolutely be thrilled with that.


BOLLING: But by the way, the UAW is thrilled with that, as well.

So Chuck Schumer -- again, now we heard Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi in the same day saying, "We're not going to work with the Republicans. We're going to hold our ground, stand firm."

Guess what? You're a minority in both houses. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter anymore. Elections have consequences. You guys lost.

GUTFELD: You know, Kimberly...


GUTFELD: ... I'm worried about some -- half celebrities, I think half religious people in there. I am worried about the celebrities in that video. They're on the verge of panic.


GUTFELD: I think they need some kind of intervention. An anti-Trump intervention. A Trump-vention.

GUILFOYLE: They're about to plummet to the D-list.

The problem is it just makes all of them look like sore losers. And they're not in a planet by themselves, and they're not in a country that didn't vote. This country did vote, and they voted for Donald Trump to be the 45th president of the United States.

And the tweets are, in fact, working. He's just taking it directly to the people. So it's a direct pipeline.


GUILFOYLE: Keystone Pipeline to the American people. And they're frustrated. And they don't know how to do the limbo, like go above it, go below it. They don't know what to do.

So then they have Schumer with his head down, with, like, horrible reading skills, looking down. No whatever: charisma, no content, no ability to communicate. So this is actually going very poorly for them. And again: advantage team Trump.

GUTFELD: Chuck, more like upchuck. Am I right, Dana?

PERINO: You're right, Greg.

I was picking up on that, too, that the communication styles are just so radically different.


PERINO: So for 16 months, 18 months, people were complete -- even if they didn't want to vote for him, they were entertained...


PERINO: ... by Donald Trump, who doesn't have to speak from a teleprompter. And I think that the more the Democrats focus on him using Twitter and urge him to stop it, he's going to keep doing it, because it's his most effective tool. Why would you do away with your most effective tool?

I think if the Democrats really want to try to beat him, they have to beat him either with ideas or ignore his tweets and figure out a way to work around it.

GUTFELD: It really is...

PERINO: They're not going to beat it.

GUTFELD: You know, Juan, it is a third rail that they can't get to, because when he tweets, the press follows. I think it's a parallel to whenever President Obama did something, the media reacted; and we would sit there and go, "Why is the media always paying attention to President Obama?" So this is just fair game. It's just the pendulum has swung back.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, it's so curious to me. Because you know, as I've said, I feel so old school on this. Because I -- Charles Krauthammer said last night, he said, you know, this works. It's effective.


WILLIAMS: But on the other hand, when you're president of the United States, are you able to actually make a constructive, coherent policy...


WILLIAMS: ... on a tweet? He's going to suggest things on tweet, like for example, when he goes back and forth with the Chinese or whatever. I mean, that's a real consequence. So does he continue?

Now, remember, he said way back, I think right after he won the election, "I'm going to stop this tweeting. It's not going to go well for me." But he has continued the tweeting because to me, it's like he's addicted. I think I'm quoting Greg Gutfeld.

BOLLING: Even -- can I jump in?


BOLLING: More so than he's addicted, it's working. It's ticking off the other side. Quick story.

WILLIAMS: I think it's ticking off his side.

BOLLING: First day when I did this at the end of the show, this is "The Five" and it made you so mad. I said, "You know? I'm going to do this every day."

PERINO; True story.

BOLLING: Because this is what's happening, though.

GUTFELD: It bothered me, because I'd go, "I know that's a hand, Eric."  You point at the hand.

BOLLING: Twitter is ticking off the left so badly, it's brilliant strategy for him to continue to do it.

PERINO: They should try to match it.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know how you match it, because he doesn't use email. So he can't even give away his password. But I'm saying, you know, it's very cute.

PERINO: No. Match his tweet for tweet.

WILLIAMS: No, I don't know if you can match him tweet for tweet. Like this thing about, you know, Trump...

GUILFOYLE: Well, Elizabeth Warren tried.

WILLIAMS: I think it's childish.

Who did?

GUILFOYLE: She tried.

PERINO: She didn't do too bad.

GUILFOYLE: Elizabeth Warren. She didn't do too bad. You're going to put Pocahontas back in.

GUTFELD: All right. That made no sense. I didn't make any sense.

GUILFOYLE: You didn't make any sense.

GUTFELD: I didn't make any sense.

I was going to read this. Is the Black Lives Matter movement responsible for the crime crisis of Chicago and elsewhere? The city's former police superintendent thinks so. Here him explain why when "The Five" returns.


BOLLING: There's been a crime crisis in Chicago for quite some time. But in 2016, the violence skyrocketed. Homicides topped 700 for the first time in 20 years. There were 762 murders recorded.

The city's former top cop blames the Black Lives Matter movement for contributing to that staggering tally.


GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT (via phone): There's a political atmosphere of antipolice sentiment that has swept across this country. A movement with the goal of saving black lives, at this point, is getting black lives taken, because 80 percent of our murder victims here in Chicago are male blacks.


BOLLING: Here's more from Garry McCarthy explaining exactly what he means.


MCCARTHY: I never said that Black Lives Matter causes -- is causing people to die. What I'm talking about when I point to the movement, I'm talking about the groundswell that has involved a number of different components.

I talk about the Department of Justice, which does go right to the White House, as -- as being a major component in hamstringing police while at the same time emboldening criminals, which is leading to the lawlessness that we're seeing in the streets of, certainly, many of our major cities across the country.


BOLLING: But Greg, there are spiking crime rates in Chicago. Other cities, as well, but not the extent of Chicago, my hometown.

I will tell you, the vast majority of the spiking crime -- the murders that are going on are -- there are two big neighborhoods. And they are very much gang-related. They are very much...


BOLLING: Cops, you know, in their defense, if they don't have the mayors behind them, what incentive is there to go in and risk your life and then get called out for the way you engage someone?

GUTFELD: That mayor is so brave. Remember when he came out against Chick- Fil-A, you know, refused to have them come and move to Chicago? But he won't condemn the violence. Because in his head, he somehow must link, you know, talking about gang violence to race. So in a weird way, it might even be racist on his part for not coming up and saying it.

But here's -- you know, I wouldn't blame Black Lives Matter. I would blame the media. CNN, MSNBC, the hyper-focus on police shootings led to the protests against the police, which caused the police to pull back. When the police pulled back, the consequence was energized criminality. Right?

So the protesters who claim to help got the press involved, and that enabled this current bloodbath.

BOLLING: K.G., the murders, the homicides in Chicago exceeded New York and L.A. combined.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, obviously, what they're doing is not working. So the less hysteria, screaming and yelling about gun control and guns are bad. It's doing nothing except for littering the streets with more dead bodies.

What they need to do is do basically what O'Reilly talked about, which is put the National Guard there in those specific communities. No, Juan, that's what they need. They need more effective policing to take the illegal guns out of the hands of the drug dealers and criminals and make sure that they enforce actual strict sentencing and do sentencing enhancements, and make them stick. When someone gets caught with a gun like that, tack another five years onto their sentence. That's what actually works.

That's what works in cities that don't have this problem, where they aren't littered with bodies, with record numbers. That is the only thing that Chicago is succeeding in, is lives lost. They are the winner of that. So what does that say?

BOLLING: Let's take a step forward. What could Chicago do to scale back the rising crime rate?

WILLIAMS: Well, from all I can -- I'm fascinated by the story, because to me it's -- to me, it's one of the saddest, most tragic things going on in the country right now. Hats off to Donald Trump for saying it, for calling attention to it.

But the reality is, it's not a matter of putting the National Guard on the streets. What you said, and I thought was very insightful, was it's going on in very specific generally black, Hispanic -- mostly black -- neighborhoods in Chicago, South Side, a couple on the West Side. Very concentrated.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I said. Those communities.

WILLIAMS: Police have said -- that's why I said I don't think it makes a difference. You put -- in fact, the mayor, Rahm Emanuel, that you guys put down, he's put 1,000 more cops out there.

But I think what's going on is it's people who know each other killing each other. I read the other day how, you know, they say they're bored. They don't have a job, whatever. That they -- small grudges become, THEN, something you kill somebody over.

This is a pathology; this is real sickness. But it's endemic now in Chicago to the point that it's out of control. It's like a public health menace.

BOLLING: I don't hear...

WILLIAMS: Can I make one point...


WILLIAMS: ... before we go? Garry McCarthy is a good cop, and he's widely respected by police around the country. But do remember...


WILLIAMS: ... the reason that Garry McCarthy was let go was because Laquan McDonald, 17-year-old, was shot in the back...


WILLIAMS: ... by police. There's no disputing this.

BOLLING: Yes. There was the video of that. Yes, he did.

PERINO: I don't necessarily have an answer, but I wanted to ask Kimberly, is like is there -- because of your experience, and especially in California, in Los Angeles, when there was a big gang problem, what helped solve that? It was the same thing here.

GUILFOYLE: Los Angeles and San Francisco, you've got gang task force, and you have them specifically targeting the gangs; and they worked effectively there.

You have to have that sort of militant, you know, approach to be able to do it. Because they are really problematic, and it brings the whole community down. Nobody wants to open up businesses. Nobody wants to go to school.  Parents are even afraid for their kids to go down the street or come home after school.

PERINO: Exactly (ph).

GUILFOYLE: Then they're afraid to not be there for them when they come back. And it's cyclical; it's deadly. And they need to do something different. Because what they're doing, Juan, clearly, clearly, there is specific factual evidence that it is not working. And so they need to pick up the pace a bit. This, like, soft approach isn't working.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's the cops. I think we've got to talk about what is wrong in these communities where the people think it's OK.

GUILFOYLE: You have to make them safe first.

BOLLING: OK. Well, here -- right there. I took my earpiece out again, Susan.

Next, some very awkward moments yesterday on Capitol Hill during the swearing-in ceremonies for the new Congress. Of course, Joe Biden was involved in some of them. We'll show you all that when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: Yesterday Vice President Joe Biden and House Speaker Paul Ryan were on hand on Capitol Hill to swear in in the 115th Congress. And whenever Uncle Joe's around, it always makes for an interesting photo op.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to do a goofy one?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: You sound like my daughter. Get in here.

Now, you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which you're about to enter, so help you God.



BIDEN: She's not so sure.

Can I ask you all one favor? Tell him, in 14 days, when I'm no longer vice president, tell him to still say hi to me. You know what I mean?

Does anyone else want to be sworn in?



WILLIAMS: But did Joe Biden get upstaged? Paul Ryan also found himself in the middle of an awkward family moment when a lawmaker's son photobombed Dad's swearing-in with a dab.


SEN. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Are you all right? Do you want to put your hand down?


RYAN: Are you going to sneeze? Is that it?


RYAN: He's sneezing.


BOLLING: He's sneezing.

WILLIAMS: So Dana has been trying. Show us your dab, Dana.

PERINO: I can do it.

WILLIAMS: You've got it, girl.

PERINO: I learned that from some kids at Calvary Church...

GUILFOYLE: Look at Greg.

PERINO: ... in Savannah, Georgia, at their school. They asked me if I could dab. I was, like, "I don't even know what you mean."

WILLIAMS: That's why I'm so glad...

PERINO: And I did it.

WILLIAMS: ... that somebody's so cool as you.

PERINO: Very hip. I am.

WILLIAMS: But also Greg, did you know what a dab was?

GUTFELD: That's why I don't have kids. Children are the worst combination of, like, ignorance and enthusiasm. They have all this energy, but they don't what to do with it. So they're in this picture, this important moment and he does something so stupid.

I would have punched that kid in the face.


GUTFELD: I would've dragged him outside, and I would have grounded him for four months.

WILLIAMS: So -- so guess what? So Paul Ryan then tweets, "I don't even know what dabbing is." But you're a cool guy.

BOLLING: I don't know. Can you teach me?

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop.

PERINO: It's not that hard. You just did it.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and besides that...

BOLLING: This? Wait a minute.

PERINO: You've got to put your head under.

WILLIAMS: I go to you, Eric Bolling, for all of my coolness.

GUTFELD: This is why I hate kids.


BOLLING: Can we show the tape?

GUTFELD: Why I hate children.

PERINO: I think it's like this.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think they dab on "Special Report." I'm just saying.


GUILFOYLE: I'm just saying. Right?

WILLIAMS: Well, did you think...

GUILFOYLE: But I do whip, and I nay-nay. So...

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. There you go. You're having a good time. You're having a good time.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, what can I say?

WILLIAMS: By the way, what's with the baby who, like, ducked Joe Biden?  The baby, like, totally, like, got out of the way.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, the baby threw the head back, "Aaa!" because he thought he was going to get a shoulder massage.

WILLIAMS: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

PERINO: I'm going to miss Joe Biden.


BOLLING: He's...  

GUILFOYLE: So am I. Isn't he fun?

GUTFELD: Where is he going?

BOLLING: Delaware.

WILLIAMS: Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: More midnight swimming.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing," up next.

PERINO: Amtrak.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. I'm just back from a holiday break, and my family has a tradition during our end-of-the-year getaways. Every year, we sport the same tracksuit as we march through the airports. This time in Baltimore, having breakfast, as we make our trip.

And here we are on the edge of the Emerald Sea, the Caribbean, on Jamaica.  Looking fancy in our duds. And here I am in my Snoopy T-shirt with my grandkids. And one highlight of my trip, look at this. I saw a double rainbow out over the ocean. Pretty cool.

PERINO: That is cool. Well done.


BOLLING: Nice. Very nice.

OK. So last week we told you about this painting hanging in the U.S. Capitol. This is amazing. It's a painting depicting law enforcement officers holding guns at people. But they're animals, and one of them is a pig. Now, we talked to -- about getting this painting taken down.


BOLLING: We called the Democratic congressman, Lacy Clay, from his -- Missouri, his office, who he had it placed after some sort of contest was won.

PERINO: It's a school contest.

BOLLING: Right, a school contest. But he refuses to have that thing taken down. It's still, like...

PERINO: It's a kid's art.

BOLLING: It's a kid's art. But look, over 100 cops were killed in action in America in 2016. I think these cops deserve, these families deserve to have that picture taken down.

And I also think it's -- you want to talk about offensive things. You know, you think a Confederate flag offends people. This offends millions of Americans. Let's call that congressman, Lacy Clay, and have that thing taken down.

PERINO: All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: Time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Robot News


GUTFELD: All right. This is pretty interesting stuff. It's -- it's a new companion robot named Curry.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

GUTFELD: If you're very, very lonely, this little adorable creature is one of the first intelligent domestic robots. It's going to be in a few months, put out by Bot. Costs about 800 bucks.

Now, here's the thing. It's got a built-in camera. So when it's walking around, it's like filming stuff. But because it's so adorable, you really don't think about it. What it's doing right now is it's filming a dog on the couch. Now, the dog thinks he's alone, doesn't know that the frigging robot is a narc. That frigging robot is going to go back and tell their owners that the dog was sleeping on the sofa when he wasn't supposed to.  And they're going to put the dog to sleep.

I hate these robots. They're going to destroy the earth. I don't care how cute that thing is. He's going to kill the dog.

GUILFOYLE: They're not going to kill the dog.

BOLLING: Just wait till -- wait till the Russians hack the robots.

GUTFELD: Yes. Dammit.

GUILFOYLE: I can't wait for you to get one of those.

BOLLING: Affect the outcome of your marriage.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: K.G., I bet you have a more uplifting one.

No. Meaningful.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, thank you.

God bless the group of teenagers THAT you see pictured here who got together to give a navy veteran a send-off. His body was unclaimed at the funeral home, and there was no one to mourn for him. So what was very nice. Navy veteran Jerry Wayne Pino, who was 70 years of age.

So one of the funeral home directors asked her son to gather boys from his local high school to help. And within minutes, six boys came to carry this war hero's body and lay him to rest. What a wonderful thing. God bless them.

BOLLING: Yes, God bless those boys, too.

PERINO: So very sweet. They are very sweet.

GUILFOYLE: Their families should be very proud.

PERINO: They should. I actually have time to do a "One More Thing."

OK, so I have two. Mentoring tips for millennials. Annual tradition of mine.


PERINO: I posted it at Five great tips. So check it out.

I also want to pay tribute to Terry Hunt, a good friend of mine. He is an Associated Press reporter, worked for the Associated Press for 46 years.  He covered all the presidents from Reagan, to Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. Just an amazing guy. I learned a ton from him when I was at the White House. He is got a good friend, Steve Holland, from Reuters. And I have to tell you, as the deputy press secretary, they taught me a ton of things.

That was the briefing room there. That's him there. I should have circled it. Right next to Jim Axelrod there on the right.

GUTFELD: Oh, I see him.

PERINO: And of course, I like to give him a little hard time. You can't see, because of the banner.

BOLLING: He's reading the banner.

PERINO: President Bush talking to Prime Minister Howard and Terry Hunt reading the paper. Anyway, congratulations, Terry. "Desperado."

Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us.  "Special Report" is next.

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