German Chancellor Merkel faces backlash following Berlin terror attack

The truth, however, can


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and lunch box is her panic room, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

President-elect Trump expected to see him at any moment -- to speak at any moment. Who put this in there? Yes, you got to take that out because he already spoke, everybody. All right, let's start over again. Hi, America. All right. That's what happens when a producer puts something in a teleprompter and doesn't tell you.

OK, the Berlin terror suspect may be a Tunisian refugee, an asylum seeker with a pile of aliases who's been in custody before. He had more red flags than China. This news comes as German leader Angela Merkel said it would be "hard to bear it" if the attacker were seeking asylum. Why is that? Because it undermines wishful thinking. If he weren't an asylum seeker, then maybe he wouldn't be Muslim either. What a relief if he were an elderly Polish driver suffering a stroke or a right-wing Yankee on vacation still mad over ObamaCare. To quote Steven Tyler, "Dream On."

The conflict is not state versus state, but civilization versus psychopathy. It's us versus roving agents united by an apocalyptic post-Earth reward. This forces us to mature our views on security. Worrying about who comes here is no longer a symptom of old school bigotry from times past, but simple math: from the many good sneaks in a few that are bad.

Imagine the threat as a table with four legs. One is immediate attack by new arrivals -- like Berlin. Two is the settling in and long-term planning by patient cells. Three are homegrown fiends inspired by Islamism. And four, the regression from a freedom-based culture over time into something far darker. This table is set.

As foreign attacks increase, it's easy to treat them like bad weather happening somewhere else. It's what we read over breakfast. But when that storm hits your shores, remember this: Wishful thinking never saved a single life. The truth, however, has.

So Dana, this guy had been arrested. He had a bunch of aliases. He was released in August. He was supposed to be deported. I know you can't catch everybody but this is pretty bad.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: And this is a pattern that's repeated over and over where I understand at hindsight is 20/20 and you can't always catch everybody. But remember there are other instances where they should have been deported, they were meant to be including I think the previous attacks in Brussels.

They had been caught before and now -- and then they had to be re-caught and there were several times -- It's not the same thing. But if you look at the case of Kate Steinle who was murdered by the immigrant who was here illegally who had been deported several times and kept coming back, this is a problem of immigration and borders that does help explain a lot of the -- not just the national mood but the world's mood and the reason that there's a desire for major change on these policy areas.

GUTFELD: And Eric, whenever you bring up major change, you always get the pushback as though you're demonizing innocent people. But the fact is it's just a new era. You got to deal with that skittled metaphor that you know.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Right, right. The one bad one, how much can you be for one bad one in the batch. But here's the amazing thing, Angela Merkel was amazing. She was wonderful for Germany when it had to do with finance. She did massive bilateral trade agreements which were great for Germany. She was low on regulation. Business has flourished in Germany, but then this whole thing on immigration happened.

In the midst of terror expanding -- ISIS is expanding -- and she announces proudly that they're going to take a million refugees in and that ISIS saying that they will infiltrate the refugee system. Who in the world didn't think this was going to end up badly besides Angela Merkel and maybe a small group of people in Germany? And sure enough, it certainly appears to have been if not this one attack, maybe others, and we know -- we know the refugee system is responsible for terror throughout Europe.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Now, she was known as the iron woman -- I don't think anymore, you know, of Europe. And she was well regarded and lauded for her economic policies, reform and creating the robust economy that Eric spoke about.

But now, she's getting this intense criticism for a softer approach, trying to be compassionate and focus on humanitarian interests thinking about women and children going in and she caved to the pressure on that.

And the problem is, when you have that kind of influx of people coming in, that many humans at once, of course there are going to be, you know, cracks in the wall. There's going to be mistakes made because you can't properly vet all of those people come in. When you couple that with the heightened intelligence warning saying you really must be careful about this when ISIS is telling you they're going to funnel in through refugees, this is sadly an inevitable outcome. I think what's going to end ultimately for her demise politically.

GUTFELD: Juan, if there had been known ties to terror that the government had known about this, those 12 murders were preventable, right? That's pretty bad.

WILLIAMS: Sure. Absolutely. Here's the thing though. With Angela Merkel, I think going back to what Eric said, I think she saw immigration as a boost to the German economy. You're bringing in young people. You're bringing in not only young people who are workers, but you're also bringing in potential market for people who are going to buy --

GUTFELD: Right. And it's true. I mean, you get young people in there. They take the jobs others don't.

WILLIAMS: But the other side of this is that you hear reports today, where people at refugee centers in Germany are saying hey, you know, don't think it's all of us. So don't blame all of us for the actions of this one person. And also let me just say that most of the German political party's backed Angela Merkel with regard to the refugees coming in.

There's one anti-immigration party. It's a small party but it's a strong populous right wing party in Germany that is trying to say that this is blood on Merkel's hands. Angela Merkel's response has been to say, hey you know what? We would definitely regret if this person was a Syrian refugee. That would be terrible. It would be terrible for her political prospects for thus the amusements we've laid out here.

But it's not to say of the case that it's a fatal blow. I think lots of people right now given what's happened in Brussels, what's happened in Paris, think that Germany, in fact, has been the one place that really hasn't had a terrible incident until now.

GUTFELD: Let's roll -- I think we have some sound tape from Donald Trump in Palm Beach talking about the attack and then I'll go to you, Dana.


GUTFELD: Heads up.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on is terrible. Has it caused you to rethink or reevaluate your plans to create a Muslim registry or ban Muslims immigration to the United States?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: You know my plans all along. I've been proven to be right. One hundred percent correct. What's happening is disgraceful. It's an attack on humanity. That's what it is. It's an attack on humanity and it's got to be stopped.


GUTFELD: You know its interesting Merkel was like saying, you know, she wanted -- everybody has their own -- they want to be right. Like he said, see, I was right about this. She wanted to be right and say that this wasn't a Muslim, right?

PERINO: Yes. So she was hoping --

GUTFELD: They both hope -- but he points out, he was right.

PERINO: But I do -- I think that he is right on the messaging. I think -- when he says -- I think that we'll have to wait and see what sort of changes are made in terms of not just the vetting of people coming in but also the wholesale influx of refugees that are coming in as Eric had last night, Governor Scott Walker on from Wisconsin.

Because governors basically, they just have to inherit whatever is sent their way in terms of refugees and there's a movement amongst the nation's governors to say, well wait, we should be able to have a say in that.

And I do think it's understandable given Germany's history and its generally leftist politics that they keep trying to atone for their past. And one of the ways I think that Angela Merkel thought that they could do that -- I'm trying to be sensitive here to say -- it's not that I don't think their heart isn't in it.

I think it is and I think it's because they are trying to atone for these lessons from the past by helping refugees around the world and being a welcoming place. And the question is for the world leaders of the western world, can you do both? Or do you really have to change it?

GUTFELD: It's interesting because they were the home for probably one of the most -- one of the most murderous ideologies in history, Nazism. You know, are they going to make it easier for another murderous ideology, which Islamism, you know, Islamic extremism is a murderous ideology.

BOLLING: Let's go a little numbers here, right. So Germany has let in -- they said they're going to let in a million refugees. So far, they've let in 750,000 refugees. Germany is a quarter of the size of the United States. That would be like 3 million refugees coming into the United States. Can you imagine, I mean how do you vet this?

How do you know one bad skittle isn't going to be in this or 1,000 bad skittles aren't going to be in this batch? You don't. And so, yes, they're going -- Angela Merkel, the European community is going out on a limb saying we're going to take a chance for this because we feel it's the right policy.

In America, I think we're going the opposite direction. We don't want to take any chances. We don't want another San Bernardino or another --

PERINO: And Germany should be willing to solve the problem where it is. I mean and ask President Obama for help in order to solve in -- trying to solve the refugee crisis before it happens would have prevented the lives being lost, the situation in Germany and her possibly having her job on the line because of really bad decisions. It all goes back to that issue.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I like your idea by the way. I like the idea that you go to the source of this migration flow and you try to staunch it. But the thing is, remember the United States --

BOLLING: There are so many sources Juan.

PERINO: But we didn't --

WILLIAMS: No, basically right now we're talking about Syria.

PERINO: No we didn't do that.

BOLLING: No, no, no, because --

WILLIAMS: Oh, we're not talking about Syria?

BOLLING: Of course you are.

WILLIAMS: I think --

PERINO: He is from Tunisia.

BOLLING: But not too far below Syria is Afghanistan. And below that is Iraq. And below that is Yemen. No, but --

WILLIAMS: No, the big flow at the moment we're talking about is Syria, and to combat.

BOLLING: You're talking Syria, but millions --

PERINO: But this attacker was from Tunisia.

WILLIAMS: Tunisia, right.

PERINO: And actually Tunisia, if you look at the Middle East and you were to say, where is the bright hopeful spot in the Middle East where there could be democracy and freedom, Tunisia would be it.

BOLLING: So what are odds (ph) they're coming?


PERINO: No jobs and radical Islam.

GUTFELD: Well, that was going to shape -- radical Islam is the --

WILLIAMS: OK, but my point to Dana was the United States has been the force that's willing to go on the ground and fight and get involved and it's not the Europeans. It's the United States.

PERINO: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: And so I don't know, I mean --

PERINO: They won't change their rules of engagement. The only thing they would do in Afghanistan -- I shouldn't say the only thing -- served bravely in Afghanistan. They've sent troops and one of the things that German soldiers are best at is police training. And they did a lot of that. And we asked them to do more and they were willing. But that's not going to solve a refugee problem.

WILLIAMS: OK, but I don't want us to over blow the terrorism problem. You know, I was reading some --

GUILFOYLE: There is no possibility of that at this point, I mean in all seriousness.

WILLIAMS: I think, no, in fact --

GUILFOYLE: That's what caused it. The genesis of this is radical jihad and genocide of Christians and one of (inaudible) is the infidels.

WILLIAMS: OK, so there are two key points I want to make. One, and this is to my pal Greg, here is a quote. It says, "From 2001 to 2013, 406,000 Americans killed on soil by guns while during the same period, 3,000 --

BOLLING: What about cars?

WILLIAMS: -- 3,000 died because of terrorist attack.

GUTFELD: Do you include suicide in that?

WILLIAMS: No. I don't know. They just say this is guns. So, in other words --

GUTFELD: -- value free, you are where they go. Guns don't have a heart and a brain.

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying --

GUTFELD: Islamists or actually human beings making evil choices.

WILLIAMS: OK. All right. And the second point I want to make --

GUILFOYLE: With multiple weapon choices.

WILLIAMS: -- that everyone at the table is that -- there was an article today I read that said, "President Obama when he talks about this, talks about an attack on German soil against Germans. When prresident-elect Trump talks about this, he talks about an attack on a Christmas celebration, the Christmas market and makes it out as if it's an attack of western civilization and Christians --

BOLLING: The thing was --

WILLIAMS: Against the world --

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no.


GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know.

BOLLING: -- was coincidence, I'm sorry.

GUTFELD: If you want to respond to that, but it is about ideas and civilization, not just about nationalities.

GUILFOYLE: Of course it is. And it wasn't a coincidence the fact that they specifically targeted a Christmas market connected to a Christian church during the holiday season where it was densely packed where you would have maximum velocity with a weapon -- with a car that would be used to get the most casualties, and that's what was the whole focus.

And again, you see this in all of the magazines that ISIS puts out, that Al Qaeda puts out, specific instructions of how to use trucks and drive them into crowded areas. So, this is -- the whole talk about guns is just a complete nonsense.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not. But let me just quickly say, if you're going to have a war --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: -- and you invite a clash of civilization, that doesn't help us as Americans.

GUTFELD: Well, you know, if it kills ISIS, it helps Americans. Coming up, president-elect Trump was quick to denounce Monday's attack. And now some Democrats are actually accusing him of inflaming ISIS. More on the stunning claim when "The Five" returns.


GUILFOYLE: After the horrific attack on Berlin Monday, president-elect Donald Trump was swift and direct in calling out ISIS for targeting Christians. But now, former Democratic New Mexico governor Bill Richardson claims Mr. Trump reacted too quickly and is actually hurting the fight against terror.


BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: To frame this attack as a clash of civilizations, Christians against Muslims, it helps ISIS recruit. It helps inflame the situation.

Find ways that we cannot make this an inflammatory charge against Muslim countries that are our allies that we're going to need against to fight against terrorism. You know, most of those slaughtered by ISIS are Muslims in Iraq, all over the world. So to frame this so succinctly as a clash of civilizations is not good.


GUILFOYLE: At the same time all of this is unfolding, sources tell Fox News there's an effort under way to transfer up to 22 Guantanamo detainees to other countries by the time President Obama leaves office. So, who is really adding fuel to the fire on terror? President Obama or president- elect Trump? Eric, your thoughts on this. This is the big question of the day.

BOLLING: My thoughts on this. You notice that Mr. Richardson used the same term that Juan just used, a clash of civilizations, Christians versus Muslims, but it's not Donald Trump who is creating this clash and it's not conservatives who are creating this clash.

Frankly, it's the radical Islamic terrorists who said if you are an infidel, if you don't believe in Sharia law, you will be subjected to be killed, not just let's talk this out. Kill them. Kill the infidel. So it's not a conservative or Donald Trump. It comes from there. I find it really, really interesting that you think you can inflame Islamic terrorists more by talking about it.

WILLIAM: No, no, no. The point that I was making and I think this is what Governor Richardson is picking up on is, are you now in fact alienating Muslims who you want to work with you to fight the radical Islamic terrorists or are you saying, oh, guess what, we are all in a fight against --

BOLLING: Can I just agree with him for one second. I agree with you 100 percent. And that's why the Islamic, the radical Islamic part of terror makes the subset of Islamists not all Muslims. And that was the point that I think is really important in this.


GUTFELD: I think it's condescending absolutely to Muslims if you think that they can't distinguish amongst themselves who are the extremists and who aren't. If you think you're going to hurt their feelings because you're going to say you got some a-holes in there who are murderous a-holes and should be killed, and they go, that's offensive to me.

That's on them. The thing that kills me about Gitmo is that we have an administration who praises Cuba, which is an actual prison. I mean Gitmo is just a petting zoo for terrorists but right there is Cuba, a huge and repressive nation that essentially is a prison for its citizens. I never quite argued about that.

As for Trump's tweets, we've been arguing as a country for decades, the media for transparency. Trump's tweets are what he thinks at the very moment, that's about as transparent as you can get.


GUTFELD: You know, good or bad.

GUILFOYLE: He has unfiltered access, directly goes to the people to take his message and he's has been able to use that successfully throughout the campaign. All right, Dana, we'll get your thoughts on this?

PERINO: Well, when Governor Richardson said it will be a clash of civilization and that it helps ISIS. Well, one, that's true if we let it, but we don't have to. So, should we do nothing different? I don't know if that's true. I got things that there should be changes. I also wonder when he says that it's helping ISIS recruit, I would love to see some background on that.

GUTFELD: Yes. Sources.

PERINO: Who is saying that?

GUILFOYLE: Is that written in a fortune cookie somewhere.

GUTFELD: Is there a (inaudible) agency that has that know, like, can we get a (inaudible) agency on this. By the way, OK, what if they recruit? Then you kill them.

PERINO: No, but if our intelligence community came forward and said these tweets are definitely causing these terrorists to become radicalized --


PERINIO: I just find that really hard to believe.

GUTFELD: I was radicalized by Donald Trump's tweets.

GUIFOYLR: Because they're being -- they're being dishonest. There's no factual basis for it.

WILLIAMS: Dana, you know, you were in an administration where the president, President George W. Bush, went to a mosque not long after 9/11 to make it very clear, we are not anti-Muslim in this country. We are fighting terrorists and we're all together.

PERINO: You can do both.

WILLIAMS: That's all that's being said.

PERINO: That's what I'm saying that you can do both. Then I think what Donald Trump could do is if he had 140 characters more could say --

GUILFOYLE: Good idea.

PERINO: -- that this approach -- my new approach will help your nation be safer and more prosperous. And then we all win. So why don't we work together and fight terrorism together? I mean it's worth a shot. We have been talking about what are we going to about this online proliferation of recruitment of ISIS? The only person doing anything that's visible right now that we saw is Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: Wait -- wait -- wait, that's not true.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And he's the first one to call it as terror which was then backed up.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second, Richard Stengel, I think you know him. He used to tun "Time" magazine, he's at the State Department --

PERINO: I know.

WILLIAMS: -- we helped the United States as a --

PERINO: I know that they try and I used to be a part of it. I was Senate confirmed broadcasting board of governors, and Lord knows that they've tried, but it's like -- it's basically a tiny grain of sand on a huge beach. They're not effective.

WILLIAMS: OK, so I think we are trying. It's not fair to say that the United States is not trying. In addition to not trying, let's remember, a lot of these Muslim countries are dealing with high unemployment, young men, population, that they worry about being subject or vulnerable to recruitment.

PERINO: True. About 50 percent unemployment, but they also, while they're unemployed, they are being radicalized.


WILLIAMS: That's correct.

PERINO: And it gets back to that core issue of the radical Islam --

GUTFELD: The biggest problem Muslims have are other Muslims.

WILLIAMS: Well, certainly they are the ones who are mostly killed by --

GUILFOYLE: Well, because they're being targeted as well. So they actually more than anyone else to Greg's point, don't underestimate their common sense and the clarity of the situation that it's radical jihadists that bear them ill will and the rest of the world as well.

Up next, President Obama takes last minute executive action against American energy production. Could his new offshore oil drilling ban spark a battle with the incoming Trump's administration? Details, next.


PERINO: President Obama used executive authority to permanently ban new offshore oil and gas drilling in over 100 million acres of the Arctic and Atlantic. The president claims drilling in these locations is not economical and some critics disagree. The move is sure to face some resistance by the GOP-led congress and president-elect Trump. Here's Charles Krauthammer on Obama's controversial move.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS: He is trying to nail everything to the floor so it can't be moved. Of course, it can be moved. First of all, he is interpreting this 50, 60-year-old law widely in a widely different way.

Second, they can't even defend it in its own terms. The idea that because we're not going to drill here the oil and the natural gas is not going to be produced is ridiculous. It's going to end up being produced in Nigeria, places all over the world.


PERINO: So Eric, is it not economical to drill for --

BOLLING: It's wildly economical. It creates -- first of all, lower energy prices, a ton of tax revenue for the government as well. It makes no sense other than President Obama is trying to cement this legacy of being an environmentalist, being friendly to the environment.

Meanwhile, he spent the better part of eight years overseeing expansion in fracking, which he said he wasn't going to do. So, all he basically did was he opened up the opportunity for Donald Trump upon January 21st to sign off these executive authority to get rid of that regulation.

PERINO: Meanwhile, while we're shutting down our possibilities, you have Putin and the Turks working out a big deal over there like letting bygones be bygones so that they can actually make political deals in order to get a pipeline done.

GUTFELD: You know what I was thinking, you know, we were -- we've been focusing on Donald Trump's actions. So he started his 100 day plan 50 days early. While we were doing that and watching him deal with Carrier, President Obama stayed calm and carried on in very sneaky ways, clemency, drilling.

He banned states who were going to withhold funding to Planned Parenthood. The Dakota oil pipeline probably came in directly from him. So, I mean, he had a Black Friday rush to secure a legacy while everybody else was looking at Trump's tweets --


GUTFELD: -- and Gitmo. Just once I'd like to see a liberal politician care as much about the innocent citizens murdered by Chicago gangs than swamps and their threatened population. They care more about a rare mosquito than they do black kids.

WILLIAMS: Well, just for once I would like to hear conservatives speak up for people, the majority of the American people, who care about the ecological system and the environment in this country.

GUTFELD: But there's a priority. There's a priority and the priorities are off with the left. They put like -- their hysteria over global warming it should be, you know, a little bit like this. It's like this. And so they -- that's how they don't look at terror. They don't look at terror.

WILLIAMS: I don't know if this is a global warming move. I think this is a --

GUTFELD: It's more part of the climate --

WILLIAMS: -- to stop the --

PERINO: Stop fossil fuels.

WILLIAMS: No, no, you say to stop fossil fuels. I don't think anybody wants to stop fossil fuels, in fact there's been more drilling under Obama. The price of oil is down. Gas prices are low. The question is, do you just give carte blanche to all the oil companies to go and do what they want to do? I guess in this incoming Trump administration with the CEO president and Rex Tillerson potentially as the secretary of state, we're going to say drill, baby, drill. I don't think that's what most Americans want.

PERINO: In a way, I think what -- President Obama knows that a lot of what he is putting forward is going to get reversed. But this would slow President-elect Trump down if he had any designs on opening up more drilling in that area.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and what do you really think about that? Is that the right attitude and philosophy to put forward?

Because, you know, President-elect Trump was elected with, you know, a large majority here and a big movement that wanted to bring back jobs and stimulate the economy. And he wants to try to do these things as it relates to energy, not just independence but energy dominance.

And it's interesting to me. Because the only reason that the Obama economy didn't even slip back into this recession was because of the thousands of jobs from oil revenues and from taxes on oil companies that they paid the federal government to aid -- to be able to funnel it back into the system.

But the same people that were keeping his economy going he wants to demonize and penalize. And that should be the exact opposite of what we're doing in this country.

BOLLING: Can I point something out to Juan? January 2009, President Obama was just sworn in. Do you know what the price of a barrel of oil was that day? That month?

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

BOLLING: Thirty-two dollars.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and what is it today?

BOLLING: Fifty. It's $50.

WILLIAMS: What you're seeing is there's more production in the United States.

BOLLING: Of course there is.

WILLIAMS: That's the key point.


BOLLING: There could be substantially more, keeping the prices even lower.

WILLIAMS: At some point, you have to have a balance. You can't just say...

BOLLING: You can't credit Obama with cheap oil prices.

WILLIAMS: ... "Go ahead, drill everywhere."

BOLLING: The price of gas is $1.83.

WILLIAMS: Yes, you know what? So the next time -- in July, when I invited you out to the beach, you're going to say, "I don't want to go to that beach. I don't want to go down to Florida; it's all a mess."

GUILFOYLE: Wait. Where does...

PERINO: Wasn't it John Kerry that always wanted to vote against offshore - - the windmills.

WILLIAMS: The windmills.

PERINO: The offshore windmills. I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: This is always Juan now. It's like you're the cutest little Chicken Little ever.

WILLIAMS: I'm the Chicken Little?

GUILFOYLE: The sky is falling. The waters are filled with oil. I mean, it's just so dramatic.

GUTFELD: You like -- you're a fan of acupuncture, right? You've had acupuncture?

GUILFOYLE: Do you have some needles?

GUTFELD: You have to look at it this way. The earth is basically -- drilling is Earth's acupuncture.


GUTFELD: Look at it that way.

PERINO: I don't know if that actually...

GUTFELD; Relieves the pressure. It feels good. It's pain relieving.

WILLIAMS: Tell those people down in the Gulf Coast. You know, I'm sure they thought, "It looks just like acupuncture to me."

PERINO: The people in the Gulf Coast really appreciate the fact that they have good paying jobs that helps fuel America, energy being the backbone of the economy.

And you have Senator Lisa Murkowski, who's a chairman of the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources. And she's from Alaska, saying that President Obama has once again treated the Arctic like a snow globe, ignoring the desires of the people who live, work and raise a family there.

And I think that also again goes to that bigger picture of why there was change in the -- in the political structure of the country.


PERINO: Because people said what about us? We're the ones that you're counting on to deliver this. You're making our lives harder.

GUILFOYLE: Like the coal miners. And Hillary Clinton continued with that theme.

PERINO: Don't get them started.

GUILFOYLE: All-out war (ph).

PERINO; Don't get them started, because we have to tease.

Directly ahead, before he leaves office, President Obama has a warning for President-elect Trump. Do as I say, not as I do. We'll explain that next.


BOLLING: With less than a month to go before he leaves office, President Obama is dishing out some advice to his successor, President-elect Donald Trump. But beware the irony.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was only then, after we had exhausted efforts for bipartisan reform, that we took some additional steps on immigration executive actions. So my suggestion to the president- elect is going through the legislative process is always better, in part because it's harder to undo.


BOLLING: Well, advising Mr. Trump to go through -- quote, "go through the legislative process" sounds a little hypocritical considering you, Mr. President, have bypassed Congress by signing more than 200 executive orders, using your pen and a phone.

Newt Gingrich reveals the real reason why the president is warning Mr. Trump against overusing executive power.


NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What you're watching is a man who realizes all of a sudden that, like, 90 percent of his legacy is going to disappear, because he didn't do the hard work of passing legislation. He didn't reach out to work with the other side.

You watch. Starting the opening day, when Trump begins to repeal all these executive orders, it's going to be like one of those balloons that deflates. I mean, the Obama legacy is going to do this and down to a core of 10 percent or 15 percent of what he originally did.


BOLLING: So what do you make of it, K.G.? President Obama saying, "Go -- use the legislative process"?

GUILFOYLE: That's rich. Isn't it? I mean, that's the hypocrisy at its height. So don't do everything that I did, because I don't want you to undo what I did. So therefore, learn from my lesson, and I'm going to preach to you, in a professorial way, about how you should run your presidency.

I know somebody who didn't do that, George W. Bush. George W. Bush was very -- well, no, but he was very -- he was very, like, let the new president run his team, make his decisions and make...

PERINO: I thought you were going to -- I thought you meant -- I thought you were talking about the executive orders.


PERINO: And I remember the Democrats were up in arms about President Bush's executive orders. And I think even there were -- there were Pulitzer Prizes won by reporters who wrote about those types of things, of going around Congress.

GUILFOYLE: Wasn't going there.

BOLLING: Your thoughts of President Obama suggesting using legislative process?

PERINO: Well, obviously it's better. It is longer lasting. And if you look at the difficulties that the Republicans will have in terms of repealing and replacing Obamacare, because that was a law that was passed, even though it was passed without bipartisan support and went through the Congress, so there is -- it's more baked into the cake than an executive action. I'm sorry I used a banned phrase.

BOLLING: You want it?

GUILFOYLE: Everybody understood it.

GUTFELD: No, I want to hear what Juan has to say.

BOLLING: I do, too.

Juan, a little hypocritical.

WILLIAMS: You know, I always listen. Especially, I listen to my friends here at the table. I just want to know what you're thinking.

But what I heard President Obama say in that sound was, because he could not get past the obstruction on the part of Republicans...


WILLIAMS: ... he resorted to the use of executive actions.

But it's not as good as using full legislative consideration and action by the Congress. And I think, "Makes sense to me."

Then you guys say, "Oh, no, that's hypocritical, because he used executive action." And I think, yes, but he said the Republicans were blocking him, and he wouldn't have got anything done. He would have been a do-nothing president like they're a do-nothing Congress.

BOLLING: So Greg, use the legislative process unless the outcome isn't what you want.


Do the playground thing.

GUTFELD: The Republicans don't play well with others. That's what he was saying.

Look, you have to remember in 2008, there were people that were wishing that President Obama was a dictator. There were celebrities saying, "Who needs pesky checks and balances? This is our guy." He was the second coming, man. And everybody thought he was going to be -- and now all of a sudden, this is the pendulum swing. He's on other side. It's like, "Oh, God, here it comes. Everything that I pushed through is now coming back up." That's a terrible analogy.

PERINO: And the critics on -- you have to remember, you know, the critics on the right complained that Republicans in Congress caved to Obama all the time. So there's that.

And then also, as soon as President Trump decides to use some executive actions, there will be support, I'm assuming, from some quarters for executive action.

GUTFELD: This is all karaoke, by the way. Trump is not an ideologue. It's not like he got President Cruz. Trump prides himself on making deals.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: He's going to make a score of deals, because he loves the end result, which is a deal. And sometimes that takes priority over the content of the deal.

BOLLING: And Juan, will that be -- I'm sorry, K.G. What was that?

GUILFOYLE: I was going to say, now President Obama can't have it both ways. So you live by the sword, die by the sword, or the pen, in this case.

GUTFELD: Metaphor.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's a lovely one and applicable.

BOLLING: If President Obama used the executive pen, executive privilege as often as he did, and Donald Trump comes in and, as Greg points out, makes a deal. You're all right with that, then, right?

WILLIAMS: He makes a deal with Congress?

BOLLING: Makes deals. He's cut deals. He cut deals.

WILLIAMS: I'm -- look, I'm all...

BOLLING: Donald Trump and somebody or some group...

WILLIAMS: I think -- I think somebody at this table said something recently about, you know, the Democrats are in a situation where they should work -- they should be willing to make deals. I think you were talking about Obamacare. Maybe I'm wrong.

But are you willing to work with the president-elect? And so in answer to your question, absolutely. Make a deal. But the thing is, there's so many -- so many scars right now on the body politic, where people think, "Hey, that guy stabbed me in the back." Or "That guy wouldn't play with me when I brought my friends to the playground." That's the way it is right now on Capitol Hill. People just aren't talking.

PERINO: Well, compromise has been the death knell for some -- has been -- has been a dirty word, right? So if you wanted purity, and you're a member of Congress or a senator, then you would say, "Don't ever go to the table." And I think that that will happen from the left.


Because you haven't begun to see how the far left, the Bernie Sanders, the Elizabeth Warrens of the world are not like your Pelosis and Schumers. OK? So they're going to have to make deals on their side. And then Donald Trump will probably come end-run around them and say, "OK, great, we have a deal." He and Schumer will probably cut a side deal.

WILLIAMS: I think Schumer wants to make deals.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he was put in office to make those deals, so expect them to be a man of his word and get it done.

BOLLING: All right.

On that note, up next, "Bah humbug"? find out why one professor is warning parents against -- against the adorable Christmas tradition, the elf on the shelf.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, boy. Is that Greg?




GUTFELD: Is that Sebastian Gorka?

WILLIAMS: Gregory.

GUILFOYLE: I love him.

WILLIAMS: Talk about being a Grinch. A professor in Canada is taking aim at the popular Christmas tradition, the elf on the shelf.

Laura Pinto from the University of Ontario Institute of Technology claims that the whimsical doll actually has a sinister undertone. The article, first published a few years ago, but now it's resurfacing with growing popularity.

In it, Pinto argues the idea of the elf reporting back to Santa each night is, quote, "setting up children for dangerous, uncritical acceptance..."


WILLIAMS: "... of power structures," end quote.

Pinto also warns that the toy might get kids used to the idea of living in a surveillance state. You are mocking -- your laughter.

GUTFELD: Well, who is the ultimate spy, is Santa? Here's a shady character. He's always in red. He knows if you're naughty or nice. This is well before the elf got into this business.

Let's not forget that Santa exists for parents who get two to three weeks of decent behavior from their kids, who are normally just awful, sullen brats.

Santa should be operating year-round. There should be a Christmas every single month. And that way the kids will be on their best behavior at all times.

Stay out of my way.

WILLIAMS: Isn't -- but isn't that psychological manipulation?

GUTFELD: Hell yes.

WILLIAMS: Hey, yes. I see. What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: I have this. This little guy.

GUTFELD: That's me. You think that's a doll, but I've been sitting in your bedroom.

PERINO: Talk about a surveillance cam.

GUILFOYLE: No, you sit in my tree outside the window. I'm like, "Hello, little Greg."


GUILFOYLE: Yes, little elf in the tree.

WILLIAMS: Do you do this with your son?

GUILFOYLE: I have this -- I started doing it, but then, it was, like, a lot of work. You have to, like, be creative.

BOLLING: They move themselves.

GUILFOYLE: Right. But then he kind of said, this might be for babies. And so now, you know, he's ten, so he thinks it's big-time.

WILLIAMS: He thinks...

BOLLING: What's so bad about...

WILLIAMS: That he's big-time. He's a boy now. He's, like, grown up.

BOLLING: ... an elf that -- what's so bad about the elf that keeps an eye, that makes sure the kids are naughty or nice and report back to Santa? I mean, Santa can't know all...

GUILFOYLE: I think it's so cute, though.

BOLLING: He can't know all of this by himself. I mean, he needs reports.

GUTFELD: He's gathering metadata.

GUILFOYLE: Do you know how much money, by the way, they make, this woman that did this? I mean, like unbelievable amount of money. So lucrative.

WILLIAMS: But parents use it, Dana. That's why it's popular.

PERINO: Well, they should use -- I think they should use it. If you don't have an elf on the shelf, you should get one, because it helps foster creativity and imagination. And if these kids that are 3 or 4 years old, 5, 6, 7...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's cute.

PERINO: ... right now, the jobs that they'll have in the future don't look like any of the jobs that we have now. And what they're going to need is a lot of creativity and ability to think about things in a different way. And so this is just one example of the many things that we had as kids. I can't really think, elf on a shelf. I mean, I had my advent calendar.

GUILFOYLE: Didn't you have this at one time, the elf on a shelf, and Jasper was looking at it?

PERINO: Oh, yes. We have a FiveFan Photoshop of that.

Anyway, I just think that it's good for -- like, it builds your imaginative part of your brain.

GUTFELD: Yes, whatever.

WILLIAMS: It's interesting to me...

PERINO: I need a vacation.

WILLIAMS: ... that at this table...

GUILFOYLE: You have to out think the robot.

PERINO: I don't have any words left.

WILLIAMS: At this table, we have strong conservatives, a libertarian. But you guys are OK with this. And I'm thinking, boy, I would have guessed that you would have said, this is...

PERINO: Because we hate children?

GUILFOYLE: Why? Because we're against...

WILLIAMS: ... surveillance, it's government surveillance in the form of parents.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. This is so weird. That's off base.

BOLLING: This is sanctioned by the parents. Parents are bringing...

WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, I mean, the government would -- the government would sanction surveillance.

PERINO: The left ruins everything.

BOLLING: Santa is clearly a conservative, because he employs all these elves. He has a workshop. He has a factory. Doesn't...

GUTFELD: He doesn't pay minimum wage.

BOLLING: ... every complain. He pays well over the minimum wage.

PERINO: No, he pays in kind -- basically, you get food and toys.

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, that's true. I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I think that's...

GUTFELD: He's an environmentalist. You know, his sled is powered by animals.

WILLIAMS: No, no, don't tell de Blasio, because you know those horses going around Central Park, that started a while row about animal cruelty.

GUILFOYLE: Not using much energy production. Wears the same outfit, just like you do.

GUTFELD: That is true. Smells awful.

GUILFOYLE: Just like...

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUILFOYLE: Help! Help, help!

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.


GUTFELD: It's time now for "One More Thing."

GUILFOYLE: Stretch for me. Stretch for me.


PERINO: OK. Well, I had an entire minute-long video. But I cut it to 15 seconds. I promise this is the last time. But I am telling you, if you're looking for the perfect gift, "Let Me Tell About You Jasper," the book, is it. And Jasper has a little video about it.




GRAPHIC: And then... he finds it.



PERINO: So it's a minute long. It's on my Facebook page, which is Dana Perino. "Let Me Tell You About Jasper." It's a great Christmas present for your grandma, grandpa, your aunt, your uncle, your niece, nephew...

GUTFELD: Stepkids.

PERINO: ... grandchildren.

GUTFELD: You might have step grandkids.

PERINO: Stepkids, neighbor...

GUTFELD: Step-grandkids.

PERINO: ... dry cleaner. I'm trying to fill time.

GUTFELD: I understand that.

PERINO: It's a great gift for everyone.

GUTFELD: It is. You know what? It's a great gift for America, Kimberly.

PERINO: Oh, my gosh. Buy one for everybody in America.

GUTFELD: Everybody, 317 million people.

GUILFOYLE: And made in the USA.

GUTFELD: We don't know that.

PERINO: That's true.

WILLIAMS: Let me -- let me just tell you that Dana was so kind. Because I asked Dana for some autographed copies. I said, "Dana, I'm going to go out and buy the book," Dana said, "I've got some."

PERINO: Juan, no, no, no. Juan...

WILLIAMS: Don't say that?

PERINO: We want people to buy.

WILLIAMS: I wanted to buy the book. But I'm just saying, you were very generous.

GUTFELD: Juan, you have ruined it for everybody.

Kimberly, you are next.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, happy new year. Almost. Coming after Christmas.

GUTFELD: That's so true.

GUILFOYLE: Because Mr. Bolling and I will be back together like Batman and Robin. You pick who's who. I get the smaller outfit, I imagine.

And we're going to be hosting America's New Year's Eve for the FOX News Channel with a hugely talented cast. All of us together. Kennedy we've got, Jesse Watters. We've got Bernard McGuirk, Rick Leventhal, Phil Keating.

GUTFELD: Phil Keating!

GUILFOYLE: He's my favorite.

GUTFELD: Will he be wearing shoes?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I'm very excited about it. We have George. We're stealing from your show.

GUTFELD: Who? Tyrus.

GUILFOYLE: Tyrus is going to be with us.

PERINO: That's fun.

GUILFOYLE: Michael Temero (ph), who is amazing. We always follow him on all of his endeavors, Hollywood style. So we're super excited. It's going to start at 8 p.m. Because by popular demand of our viewers, we are making it bigger and better, and it's going to be huge.


GUILFOYLE: So check us out at 8 p.m. And we're going to party all night with you until 1 a.m.


BOLLING: It's going to be great. And I'm looking forward to it.

GUILFOYLE: I'm looking forward to it.

BOLLING: Last year was really cold.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And Griff -- we got Griff Jenkins. I said him, too, right?

BOLLING: Remember how cold it was last year?

PERINO: I don't think it will be that cold this year.

BOLLING: It's supposed to be warmer.


BOLLING: I was looking at it. It's in the mid-40s or so.

GUTFELD: This is sounding like local morning television right now.

PERINO: People like the weather.

BOLLING: Going into -- Like last year we were up on top...

GUILFOYLE: All-American new year.

BOLLING: ... of a hotel rooftop.


BOLLING: And this year we're right in the middle of the crowd. It's going to be amazing walking around, talking to people.

GUILFOYLE: Times Square, baby.

PERINO: I like it when you wear those headsets.

GUTFELD: All right. I think we've -- you've done it like -- you go.

BOLLING: Can I just go very quickly?


PERINO: No, no, no. No "quickly."

BOLLING: The only other thing is -- it's true. The other thing is tonight I'm hosting "Hannity." I'm sitting in for Sean all week.

PERINO: There's your face.

BOLLING: And another big show. We just -- you know, have members of the Trump transition team.

GUILFOYLE: Who do you got?

BOLLING: We have Newt Gingrich. We've got Scaramucci. We have a bunch of other people.

GUTFELD: Scaramucci.

BOLLING: We're going to hit on this refugee situation.

GUILFOYLE: Scaramucci's got a great book out, too.

BOLLING: Heavily. Yes, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Just read that.

GUTFELD: All righty. Time for something new.


GUTFELD: Greg's Tweet of the Day.


GUTFELD: Now yesterday, in a podcast -- or maybe it was two days ago, comedian Lena Dunham said that she hadn't had an abortion yet...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: ... but she wished she did. So why don't we roll my tweet of the day?

GUILFOYLE: Really? Is this approved?

GUTFELD: "Imagine if Lena's mother was as smart as Lena."

PERINO: Oh, Greg Gutfeld.


How did this get approved?

GUTFELD: I approved it.

Lena Dunham has since apologized.

BOLLING: Self-approved it.

GUTFELD: I approved it. She has since apologized for trivializing the issue and said she was a delusional girl when she said that. And was...

PERINO: Two days ago?

GUTFELD: No, today.

PERINO: I mean, like, she was a girl? I mean...

GUTFELD: Yes. Isn't this crazy? It's terrible.

I think my tweet was the exact right answer.

GUILFOYLE: On behalf of a horrified nation, we apologize.

GUTFELD: Do you understand abortion? Imagine if your mother made that choice.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, God help me.

GUTFELD: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: And of course, now we have too much time left on the show.

GUTFELD: No. We haven't done Juan yet.

WILLIAMS: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, you probably have eight points to your "One More Thing."


GUTFELD: You better have pictures.

BOLLING: One day, it's three.

GUILFOYLE: Every day he does a little thing. And he writes it and he goes, "one, two, three," and it goes all the way down. But not today.

WILLIAMS: All right. So this year, we lost one of the most -- I think arguably the most photographed people in the world, Muhammad Ali, the great boxer. But this week we lost the man who took millions of photographs of Muhammad Ali, Howard Bingham.

Bingham died earlier this week. But he met Ali in 1962 when he was working for a black newspaper in L.A., The L.A. Sentinel. And after a news conference, offered Ali and his brother, Rudy, a ride. And they took it. And all of a sudden, developed into a friendship between Ali and Howard Bingham.

So Bingham took pictures of Ali with Elvis Presley, Malcolm X. I could go on. Ebony, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, newspapers around the country. You would recognize, because he was there.

And this year I met him at Ali's funeral in Louisville, spent some time talking with Howard. What a great guy. You could understand why he was Ali's good friend.

GUTFELD: All right. That's it. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is up next.

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