Tillerson could face uphill battle over Russia ties

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 13, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. Its 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

A big surprise at Trump Tower this morning as rap star Kanye West meets with president-elect Donald Trump. Details on what they discussed, later. But first, new developments on the transition front. The president-elect confirms he will nominate ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson to be Secretary Of State.

Former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice praised Tillerson as "excellent choice." And former defense secretary Robert Gates called him a man of great integrity who will protect the interests of the U.S. Many Democrats are raising concerns about Tillerson but Charles Krauthammer has a warning for those lawmakers.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS: If the Democrats go after Tillerson on the Russia ties, it will be a delightful festival of hypocrisies. For 20 years they've been soft on the Russian if you (inaudible) and then all of a sudden they have discovered that the Russians are not our friends so this is quite a flip-flopping. Well, look, the famous moment all of us remember, Obama mocking Romney for saying that the Russians are a big threat and now all of a sudden they are becoming cold warriors. I don't think it's going to look very good.


PERINO: Yes I tried, we did talk about that a little bit and that show was after ours so maybe everyone is watching "The Five." Eric, I wanted to ask you something about -- no, that was a compliment to us and to the rest of everybody else at Fox and Charles Krauthammer. We're just following his lead over here. One of the things that people usually ask themselves is why don't more people that are in business ever want to be in government?

Now you have a situation where the president-elect is leaving business in order to go into government and you have the secretary of state chosen to leave ExxonMobil, a very -- gigantic company, one of the biggest in the world, to go into government. Good thing or not?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think it's great for America that we can get the titans of business to come over to basically -- I mean this is going to sound terrible but you make about, what, $205,000 a year as a secretary of state. This guy probably made $205 million a year and says I'm going to forego that. It's called public service for a reason. You are serving the public.

He could be better suited continuing his career. Now, Rex Tillerson was going to step down I believe in a year anyway. He's going to leave Exxon and he was going to retire. I just think it's fantastic to have such successful people in various forms -- in various spots in the government. Anytime you can stack your team with best players from different -- even from -- it's like a football team, Juan, right.

You put the best players on your team. If you got to move a quarterback to a wide receiver, go ahead and do it as long as you have the best athletes on the field. I think Trump is accumulating the best athletes in the political field.

PERINO: But it isn't without controversy, Juan. So, what is your take on this? What are you hearing from consternation on the left and the right especially about possible ties to Russia?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, you know, just picking up on Eric's analogy, I think this is bringing in superstars. But the thing is, if you bring in a superstar singer to a football team, people are like ha- ha because he has no experience in politics, which you can say is he has experience dealing diplomatically with leaders of all sorts of foreign nation --

BOLLING: What's that word -- what's that word? Diplomatically.

WILLIAMS: That's what I said.

BOLLING: Top diplomat.

WILLIAMS: No. Difference is you try to make a profit or you're trying to understand the best interest of the United States of America and that's why you hear complaints from people like Amnesty International about human rights records or that's why you hear complaints from people who are concerned that in fact, you know, when you talk about issues like climate change, that ExxonMobil protecting their own profits and interests has long been trying to downplay the impacts of climate change on the world.

But you also hear them from republicans -- and this is what I think everybody needs to tune into because there's a big push on now to get Condi Rice, Robert Gates and the Republican establishment to endorse him.

But guess what, there are lots of people, you know, McCain, Graham and others who say, what's this with the best friend of Vladimir Putin at a time when we're worried about the effects of the Russian hacking on the election? It just doesn't look good. It's going to be a big confirmation conflagration.

PERINO: But Kimberly, looking back though when Romney was a candidate for president and he brought up concerns about Russia, the left, especially even President Obama during the re-election campaign -- during that debate -- mocked him and now the left is worried about Russia. I have concerns about Russia, too. But I mean, it's a little hard to swallow that now all of a sudden they are concerned about Russia on the left. The right is always concerned of Russia.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Right. But this is another example of the height of liberal hypocrisy and this is just another attempt -- a poor or weak attempt to try to cast aspersions on a very strong pick, somebody who is a patriot, who wants to serve this country, who is highly regarded by those that we admire like Condoleezza Rice who suggested this pick to the president-elect Donald Trump.

I have a quote here from Rex Tillerson. I think it's pretty compelling. He said, "The global free market for energy provides the most effective means of achieving U.S. energy security by promoting resource development, enabling diversification, multiplying our supply channels and encouraging efficiency and spurring innovation." Those principles and that specific ideology can be applied to the secretary of state position.

You want somebody who is not going to be duped or fooled by these international foreign leaders. There's a lot at stake here in terms of what we're dealing with overseas, a lot of the number of conflicts that we're engaged in. This is somebody who isn't just brand new to the table that's not going to have any idea.

He's going to be well versed in what is happening internationally and be able to apply his skills of diplomacy that he used on behalf of Exxon to take it to business great (ph) on behalf of the United States.

PERINO: I did hear some interesting criticism today, Greg, actually I've read it, about -- because Rex Tillerson has been in the corporate world so much and he has been a good soldier in terms of ExxonMobil like, he doesn't talk about anything. So, nobody really knows what his personal political philosophy is, which doesn't necessarily bother me, but gives some others pause.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, we know that Robert Gates and Condi Rice has nothing to do with the fact that they might have worked for him.

PERINO: Perhaps.

GUTFELD: But anyway, this is --

PERINO: Exxon was a client of their company.

GUTFELD: Yes. The two words here are pendulum swing. We are moving from babies to adults. Imagine it's -- Donald Trump is essentially coming home from work and he's having all the little kids put on their jammies and send ing to bed while he goes to play bridge and drink gin. That is what you're seeing metaphorically with what's happening in the shift of administration.

Think about all the child-like fantasies that we've had to tolerate for the last eight years. No use for fossil fuels, let's look at windmills. No use for law enforcement, let's talk about peace marches. No use for anti-terror actions, let's talk about tolerance. No use for borders, let's talk about white privilege instead.

So every nomination that we're seeing right now is an act of progress towards an end being this protracted adolescent behavior that we've seen for eight years. We are actually seeing adults entering the house and the children leaving.

WILLIAMS: You're telling me that I should believe that Donald Trump is the adult?

GUTFELD: No, if you look at -- these are all adults who understand how the world works. The world works on a commodity -- oil, fossil fuels. It doesn't work on windmills and solar power. We also have to work and speak about how is civilization run. Law enforcement.

PERINO: Well, there was another movement on the transition front because even though not officially announced, it does look like Rick Perry, the former governor of Texas, Eric, is going to become the Secretary of Energy. I was actually -- I think it was the one that he forgot to mention during his debate (ph) or the one that he wanted to eliminate.

BOLLING: Yes. And it's clearly the reason why -- if this ends up being the pick, I think Donald Trump was probably looking for the guy who had the most experience -- the state of Texas -- with energy, energy production. At the time, I guess, I think energy production could actually expand throughout the country and Texas will be a big player in that but I believe fracking is the way of the future and that would happen a lot towards a new part of the country -- upper north part of the country as well.

Look, Rick Perry, great guy, really solid guy. Again, I like the business guys, though. There are a lot of heads of oil companies, energy companies, international drillers, pipeline companies that I would like to see in the energy -- secretary of energy field because we -- look, Donald Trump has said we're going to expand our energy production and make us energy self- sufficient. That's fantastic.

There's a reason why the Dow is 50 points away from 20,000 for the first time ever. There's a reason why business -- small business outlook, their optimism levels are soaring. They're exploding off the chart because number one, lower corporate tax but also cheap energy.

If you think of what's going on over the last 10 years, the biggest overhang is that companies starts to get going, whether it's a producer, a transporter, a seller, and oil prices shoot up, gas prices shoot up and they go, we can't afford to do business anywhere -- anymore in America. When you keep oil prices low as Greg points out, the economy, the big boys, the adults in the room do better in business and business thrives.

PERINO: Juan, I like this point that I saw earlier that Jill stein, the Green Party candidate, that pulled votes away from Hillary Clinton in important states like Florida, for example. I don't know if that would have made the difference for her, but because of Jill Stein being there, Hillary Clinton -- let's just say that you agree with me that maybe Florida could have gone to Hillary's way if Jill Stein hadn't pulled those votes away from her.

But now we end up with president-elect Donald Trump who has appointed to his cabinet the attorney general from Oklahoma, who was a thorn in the environmentalists' side, Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon and now Rick Perry, the governor of Texas who will be an energy fossil fuel advocate. What do you think of that?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's ironic isn't it because I think the left is getting sort of their comeuppance because here you have moment (ph) with people who are in love with Bernie Sanders is like, oh yes, Hillary Clinton is kind of (inaudible) status quo, I'm not going to vote and especially in states like North Carolina,.

But you can go up north into Michigan. You know, a lot of people, far left, who just said Donald couldn't take it, and guess what, this is what you got now. Because to me, it's like the barn yard door is open and you get people, you know, who are, Eric says, oh great businessmen, great talent but they have a businessman's view of the world. Their interest is in money and making themselves and the rich richer.

BOLLING: Inefficient.

WILLIAMS: Not in the best interest --

BOLLING: Who thinks that the government stinks (ph) up?

WILLIAMS: Not in the best interest of all the citizens of the country at all levels. I don't think that anybody -- and it's curious to me your point, Dana, because I heard complaints from the right today saying, "oh, you know, Rex Tillerson and ExxonMobil actually give money to Planned Parenthood. We didn't like that, right.

PERINO: Well, there are also some on the far right are saying, well, he actually said positive things about the Paris deal, the climate deal.

WILLIAMS: Yes, right.

PERINO: I think that he can move from being CEO of Exxon to being the secretary of state and have different --

GUILFOYLE: He certainly --

PERINO: -- represent the interests appropriately.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. And he was set to retire anyway from Exxon as CEO. That was coming up just in the beginning of next year. So now he's chosen to serve the country and I have absolutely no doubt that he's going to put all of his efforts, best efforts forward, putting America first and making sure that we are well-represented throughout the international community and respected by somebody who actually has a tremendous record at Exxon.

WILLIAM: I think he gets a big tax break for selling off --

GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh.

BOLLING: This is important and you're 100 percent right. As a cabinet member, you get an exemption. You have to divest, OK. You can't put it in trust and hold it. You have to divest. And when you do, you're allowed a tax exemption on all of the money. So you notice --


WILLIAMS: Because it's considered public service. So this is a very rich man --

BOLLING: This is one of the big reasons why some of this guys wanted to --

WILLIAMS: So, yes, you know, so in this Christmas season, angels. Everybody is an angel. Please, wake up.


GUTFELD: Putting Perry in charge of the Department of Energy is like putting Charlie Sheen in charge of your pornography. We know what's going on. But this is refreshing because the left has operated so long under the idea that their dorm rooms were heated by, you know, magical thinking and folk music. This is how the world works. All of these people being tapped have some kind of link to the real world, how things are made, not how things are thought of.


GUTFELD: And that is a huge difference. And people are -- I think that's why the left is convulsing because you see a shift from magical thinking to be hard cold reality of doing things.

GUILFOYLE: Right. So, metatheory to practicality.

PERINO: All right, coming up, is the left trying to undermine president- elect Trump's election victory. We'll play the tape and let you decide, when "The Five" returns.


BOLLING: Welcome back. It's no secret that president-elect Donald Trump's election victory has blown the minds of liberals and anti-Trumpers everywhere. First the recounts, then the claims of allegedly Russian hacking -- we should note however, there is no evidence of the Russians interfering with the election. So you really have to wonder if the sore losers are just trying to undermine Mr. Trump's win.


BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: The president-elect in some of his political events specifically said to the Russians, hack Hillary's e-mails.

JENNIFER PALMIER, FORMER CLINTON COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR: The Electoral College and I have learned a lot in recent weeks about it. It was intended that the electors deliberate. One of the reasons why it exists is to protect against a foreign government from interfering in our election. So, pretty stunning.

JOY BEHAR, THE VIEW SHOW HOST, ABC NEWS: Isn't it time for him to step down? I mean he has to step down before the inauguration before they give him the nuclear codes. I mean, do we have to wait until the hammer and sickle is on the American flag before we stand up to this guy?


BOLLING: Oh, brother. All right, Greg, can we start with you with the -- if you want to take Joy Behar on, go ahead, but Obama --

GUTFELD: No thank you.


GUILFOYLE: What was this?

BOLLING: You know, the Russians have to like Donald Trump. He was the one who said to Mitt Romney, hey, the 80's want their foreign policy back.

GUTFELD: Here's what we know the Russians didn't do. They didn't blame Benghazi on a video. They didn't let Hillary Clinton get a secret server. They didn't alienate the American public with identity politics. They didn't tell her to cruise through this election on her gender. They didn't tell her to lie. But having said that --

GUILFOYLE: They didn't push the video.

GUTFELD: They didn't push the video.

BOLLING: And they didn't call us or them deplorables.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. But you can hold two competing thoughts. Hillary can suck eggs, be the worst candidate ever but the Russians can still meddle because the Russians are the Russians. It's what the Russians do. So we can't have the foresight of goldfish. What goes around comes around.

They will come after us and we got to be very careful about this and understand that we have to investigate because if they still have something, they're going to use it. Russians will always use what they got. We cannot jettison our principles because we got what we want. We got Trump in. Yay. That doesn't mean we let the Russians off the hook.

BOLLING: Dana, Reince Priebus was on this morning. He's on "Fox & Friends" I believe this morning saying, look, the RNC was not hacked. We don't think we were hacked. There is an attempt at it. The CIA claims that there was a hack. FBI says no. The DNI today said they don't see an actual hack.


BOLLING: Of the RNC, right.

PERINO: That's why I do think this investigation is worthwhile because you have several different intelligence apparati -- apparatus?


PERINO: And they have a different opinion. That's why you have an investigation if you want one just to basically to see because I think both things can be true. I also think that at the same time the Democrats can be really missing the reason that they lost. And I think that will hold them back from being winners --

GUTFELD: I hope they miss the reason. I really hope it.

BOLLING: Juan? Reason.

WILLIAMS: How can we miss Jim Comey? I don't know how we miss him.

BOLLING: That's why?

WILLIAMS: That's one of the big reasons. But I think the Russians are a big reason. The idea -- what's so fascinating to me that on the right right now, the bottom line is, let's politicize this. If you are for Donald Trump, ignore the Russians. And let it be the Democrat's problem and charges of hypocrisy against them. What hypocrisy?

Everybody at this table would agree that ISIS and Islamic terror is a threat to the United States. And that was Obama's point when he was talking to Romney about the Russians. But now it's old. The Democrats never said a word about the Russians. How ridiculous is this? Anyway, my point to you is --

BOLLING: Can you explain -- and I'm having a hard time understanding what the left is saying. How did the Russians influence the election by hacking into the DNC and not in --

WILLIAMS: Oh, let me see. Let me see, all of those leaked e-mails that went to Podesta, you think that's a problem. I know what you think.

BOLLING: Leaked.

WILLIAMS: Yes, leaked by who? Who did the hacking?

BOLLING: Exactly. Lord knows who did that.

WILLIAMS: No, I think 17 intelligence agencies have said this was the Russians but some people don't want to hear.

BOLLING: Go ahead, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Listen, I mean this is -- look, nobody is saying don't pay attention and keep a close eye on Russia and make sure because of course, we're very concerned about cyber security. We're both very concerned about what's going on with China, with North Korea and with the Russians in particular. The intelligence agencies have been consistent in keeping a close eye on Russia.

This does not discount or explain the historic catastrophic loss by the Democrats, by Hillary Clinton for a poor candidate who was hugely corrupt, that have problems from the beginning that thumbed her nose at the laws, thumbed her nose at the American people and thought she was too big to fail. With the Clinton Foundation, with the e-mail servers, with the lies about Benghazi, all of it, that is why she was unelectable and why she got smoked by president-elect Trump.

WILLIAMS: You know, I find it (inaudible) that people seem to forget -- this is less than 1 percent decided in the last week of this election and you say, oh, terrible candidate -- terrible candidate. She was a flawed candidate. But guess what, she got almost 3 million more votes than Donald Trump.

GUILFOYLE: Mostly due to --

BOLLING: And he got, what, 16 million --

GUILFOYLE: Metropolitan cities like New York.

BOLLING: Sixteen more Electoral College.

GUTFELD: OK, here's the thing. You can't blame the Russians for the fact that we got 30 plus governorships and we've got all these legislators, we got all these congressmen and senators. So, Trump is in a way part and parcel of that trend. It's the wave. You can't say, oh, the Russians just helped him, it didn't help them.

It's the wave that kind of went for (ph). However, I have to agree with Juan, if you see an elderly woman getting mugged, you know it's wrong. Is it less wrong because you don't like the elderly woman?

BOLLING: Is she getting mugged or did she take dive --


GUTFELD: I think they tried to mug her.

BOLLING: Hold on, I just fell. I'm suing this place. Here's my point, we don't know. There is no definitive proof that whatever the Russians got that they gave to WikiLeaks wasn't leaked.

WILLIAMS: But Eric, are they going to do a Donald Trump on us and say I ignore all American intelligence. I don't respect American intelligence agencies?

BOLLING: All the American intelligence agencies does not agree on this. Absolutely not.

WILLIAMS: Yes, they do. Let me tell you, they agree, and not only that, the idea that you would say to American intelligence people, you know, I don't want to read your intelligence briefings. I don't believe you.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. People that I actually spoke to at CIA this morning who said this has clearly been politicized to an ideological advantage. It is unfortunate. They're doing their job in being professionals. There is no fact evidence, substantive evidence to prove that the Russians played a role and influenced the outcome of this election.


GUTFELD: This should not stop us. If this were reverse, we would have the muskets out right now screaming. If Hillary had won because Canada helped her, are you kidding me? We would be going ape poop. Notice I didn't use the "S" word.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

BOLLING: And by the way, if that were the case, then throw out this whole election process. Democrats (inaudible) don't amount to a hill of beans. Well, if they didn't, then you can't say that he Russians helped them win.

GUILFOYLE: They even said that this is about a movement for change. The people like the American men and women that felt they were left behind, they did come out in record numbers to support their candidate that was listening to them. I'm telling you.

BOLLING: It's the meeting at Trump Tower that everyone is talking about. Why was Kanye West meeting with the president-elect? Who asked whom for that. (Inaudible) those details coming up. Plus, we're just over two hours away from Mr. Trump's thank you tour in Wisconsin. A preview from the Badger State is next.


GUILFOYLE: Well, it's been a busy day for president-elect Donald Trump, first holding transition meetings at Trump Tower here in New York City. And now Mr. Trump is headed to Wisconsin for the next stop on his thank you tour. Tune in to Fox News at 8:00 p.m. eastern for live coverage of his rally.

Joining us from West Allis where the president-elect will appear tonight is our new chief White House correspondent, John Roberts. Welcome and John, congratulations. We are all very excited about this, and Bolling did it yesterday. I sent you an e-mail and didn't hear back so I know you're busy doing your job. Sending you congratulations.

JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Kimberly, I'm sorry I missed the e-mail. I don't know how I could have missed it, but thank you very much. I saw you and Eric yesterday and I really thank you very much. It's just such an honor to do this. And you know, after getting this new position, I got to spend this afternoon in a Chevy Cruze sitting in a parking lot in West Allis, Wisconsin in 10-degree weather waiting for Donald Trump. So, it's nothing but glamour in this job.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. All right. So, tell us what we can expect tonight?

ROBERTS: Donald Trump is going to be giving another, you know, edition of his thank you tour. He's been going across the country and doing this, all of the battle ground states who helped propelled him over the top. Interesting situation here in Wisconsin as well because, of course, the controversial recount that Jill Stein's organization basically twisted the arms of officials here in Wisconsin to do and was completed yesterday.

And the way it worked out was Donald Trump netted an additional 131 points, 131 votes, rather. And you know, Wisconsin was a big win for Trump because nobody except people in the Trump campaign, and I think Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus and maybe a couple of others thought that there was any chance that he was going to pull it off here. Don't forget that this is a state that has been Democratic for decades. So it really was, Kimberly, a huge win for him to pull it off here in Wisconsin. Michigan, as well.

And that's why he's going around the country, saying thanks to all these folks who put him over the top. And the fact that he's easily surviving these recounts, I think, is just a little icing on the cake for him.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and perhaps a little bit letting the public know that, in fact, have faith in the election. The recount is, in fact, yielding more votes for the president-elect.

Now, Greg has a question. I can't promise what it is.

GUTFELD: I heard you -- I heard you say you had to sit in a Chevy Cruze, which I believe is a very small hybrid. It's a rental, I would assume. Are our expenses that bad that they're stuffing you in a tiny car in subfreezing temperature?


ROBERTS: Yes, Greg. It's terrible. Forget what you hear about FOX making money hand over fist. It's not the truth.

No. What happened was, when we -- when we rolled into the Milwaukee airport this morning, the one rental counter that we had actually booked a car with had a long line. And my producer had the misfortune of not being an elite club member, so we couldn't go right to the car. And we had to get here so that we could go on the air, so I went to the counter next door. I went to the folks at National. I said, "I'm an emerald club member. Can I get a car?"

They said, "All we have is a Chevy Cruze." So it was either that or we walked.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. See, this is behind-the-scenes, like, reality of what actually goes on. Don't worry. We can relate with your pain, even though we're here in a nice, beautiful studio, because we were trying to petition for Diet Coke, so we couldn't even get those. So it's no problem.

GUTFELD: They spelled "cruise" wrong.

GUILFOYLE: There you go. Dana Perino, you have a question.

PERINO: Well, one of my favorite memories, John, when you and I worked at the White House before, when I was press secretary. You were in one of the main seats there. Was when we were doing the Supreme Court nomination of John Roberts, who then became the chief justice. And one time, the White House operator put in a call into you on accident, which was really funny.

And I was just thinking about that, going back. When I left the White House press secretary's job, I did not even have a Twitter address. Things have changed so much in eight years. And I wonder, as you embark on this next step, how you think that technology might have changed the way you cover a White House?

ROBERTS: Oh, my gosh, it's just -- it's night and day compared to how it was. I didn't have a Twitter account for another three years, Dana, after I left the White House.

And getting the phone call, by the way, for the chief justice wasn't the most interesting thing that happened at the White House. It was when there was a John Roberts who was in the White House. I don't know if he was at the travel office or he was an assistant press secretary, but they thought that I was him; and I started getting all of his secret e-mail. So I was on the inner loop at the White House there for about four months.

PERINO: Yes, he worked for me.

ROBERTS: And I just accidently -- I just accidentally didn't tell you folks about it for a number of months.

PERINO: Great.

ROBERTS: I learned a lot. I learned a lot.

PERINO: News I needed to know.

ROBERTS: But things -- things have really changed, though. I mean, particularly with Donald Trump. His Twitter feed is as much of a newsmaker as the wires used to be, as much as phone calls used to be.

Late last night tweeting out that he said he's going to separate himself from his business, turn it over to Eric and Don Jr. and all of that. I mean, that was stuff that we used to have to work phones for hours to do, and suddenly, it just comes across our Twitter feed.

And I keep looking -- I'm sorry. I keep looking at my phone, because I'm expecting to get confirmation that Ryan Zinke is going to be the pick for the interior secretary. I was told yesterday, late yesterday, it was looking really good. And apparently Donald Trump has settled on him in just the last little while.

PERINO: Great choice.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Perfect. Good. We're getting all of the news here. Eric Bolling, get something else out of him.

BOLLING: So John, first of all, congrats, my friend. I mentioned yesterday, duly deserved. Duly deserved. But you know, you are -- careful what you wish for. Going to be in West Dallas at 10 degrees.

Can you give us a little color surrounding Mitt Romney? He spent a lot of time at the Trump Tower. He spent some time at Donald Trump -- at the golf course, as well. He didn't get selected as secretary of state. Give us a little color as to was he really in contention the whole time, or was this, you know, kind of, let's fix this relationship and then move on?

ROBERTS: You know, it depends on who you talk to. If you talk to one camp in the Trump transition, Donald Trump thought that he could potentially add a lot to the administration. He thought that Romney was a good person, wanted what's best for the country and wanted to try to patch things up.

You talk to other people in the administration, and Trump was just kind of stringing him along, because he wanted to kind of pay him back a little bit. Or he was thinking that maybe he'd make a good secretary of state but that he wanted to have him in a position where he could sort of lord over him, if you will.

So not sure exactly which is the truth. Sometimes it's somewhere in the middle. But there's no question, after talking to all these people for all these weeks about the various machinations, and who's up and who's down, and who's promoting who and who's going to tear the other one down, it really is a "Game of Thrones" on a national level here in the United States as this administration gets itself in place. But I think now that there's only three slots left to fill, I think things are calming down just a little bit.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Fantastic. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Hey, John, congrats.

You know, I'm so interested in how you do this job, you know, as a former White House guy myself, I was thinking, well, gee, so no news conference on Thursday. You rely on the tweets. Are you allowed to ride on the same plane as Trump? Is there a pool on that plane? Has he done anything better about making sure reporters are around?

ROBERTS: You know, I've rode on his plane once, but that was only because we were doing a feature on him. And I flew from St. Louis, Missouri, to Chicago where the event was canceled. That was actually quite a significant event.

But traveling with him is a little bit difficult. Even the press pool rides on a different plane, but that's going to change when he becomes president, because there is a press cabin on Air Force One. And unless Donald Trump completely changes the rules there, as he has for so many other things in this administration, we will likely get to travel with him to get that shot of him coming down the stairs every time he goes somewhere.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So good, so good. All right. John, so keep checking your e-mail and find the one I sent you. All right?

Coming up, your tax dollars...

ROBERTS: I will -- I will. I'll look.

GUILFOYLE: There he is, in Wisconsin. OK.

Your tax dollars hard at work? Now liberal New York City mayor -- you know this guy -- Mayor Bill de Blasio has a new treatment for city workers traumatized by the election. I'm not making this up. Details on his government-sponsored plan, next.


GUTFELD: New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio is offering city workers counseling for those feeling distressed or vulnerable following the election of Donald Trump. Yes, it's therapy because Trump won.

Now, I get seeing my taxes go to help the poor, but to soothe the wimps? So while this jackass of a mayor treats mental illness -- fake mental illness -- what about the real stuff? Look out your damn window, Mayor Dumb-ass. The city's homeless population is exploding. Even as the temperatures drop, bodies line the streets like some dystopian postcard from Snake Plissken. Most of these people are mentally ill or drug addicted. A million people in the city have substance abuse problems which leads to liver disease, hepatitis and HIV.

God forbid you O.D. or suffer cardiac arrest on the street. With Manhattan's traffic, you'll die where you drop.

Well done, Mayor. You're culling the herd the old-fashioned way. Since we've abandoned institutionalization to help those who can't help themselves, self-satisfied progressives champion murderous neglect as some sort of enlightened freedom. We ignore the insane in their private hell until they push tourists in front of trains.

But hey, let's offer workers paid counseling, because Trump's win threatens to undermine their vegan book club. Oh, God, what a jerk. That's a mayor who embraces identity over suffering, who puts politics before people. He's not just a hopeless fool but a harmless one, but a harmful one.

He's getting me so mad.

BOLLING: That was the best monologue you've ever done!

GUTFELD: I hate him.

BOLLING: Should we redo that last word?

GUTFELD: But a harmful one. Kimberly, run for mayor.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Vote for me.


GUILFOYLE: Vote often.

All right. Here's the problem. I'm feeling distressed and vulnerable still after the fact that he's the mayor of New York City. This -- this guy really is a tremendous disappointment. He's -- not only is he low energy, he doesn't start the day until 11 a.m.


GUILFOYLE: Unacceptable. He has really made a mockery of all of the accomplishments and progress that we've had in New York City. To be honest, it was kind of a miracle he even got elected. It was, like, the lowest voter turnout ever.


GUILFOYLE: And I would love for somebody strong and passionate about New York City that's not one of these political cronies like himself to come forward. Bo Dietl for mayor. He is, in fact, running.

GUTFELD: You know what, Eric? The reason why he could be mayor, he's a barnacle on the boat of success. Like, you had -- you had Bloomberg. You had Giuliani. He's just there. He's like a -- he's like a crappy hood ornament on a Rolls Royce.

BOLLING: It's amazing how bad he is. Yes. I agree with everything you said about the homeless people, about the drug-addicted people, about the...

GUILFOYLE: Socialists.

BOLLING: ... mental -- mentally-afflicted people, as well.

Let me take the business side of this for once. For a better part of two years now, you cannot get around in Manhattan. Now, I know there's something going on in Trump Tower right now, which is making things worse, and a tree over there that's making things bad.

But for two years -- a judge of how you run a city is how the traffic is when these things aren't going on. It's a disaster.

PERINO: All the things to care about.

BOLLING: This city is awful.

GUTFELD: Paralyzed.

BOLLING: You can't get in. You can't get out. Businesses can't thrive. He's the worst -- this is the worst planned city under de Blasio, and he blew it. Because Rudy cleaned the place up.


BOLLING: Bloomberg -- loved Bloomberg. He kept the place running. De Blasio, I'm telling you, New York is falling apart because of this guy.

GUTFELD: He's -- he's universally disliked by law enforcement. He's done nothing about the real problems on New York, Dana: the homelessness, drug addiction, the traffic, everything.

Kim -- some -- can we get an adult in there?


GUTFELD: Please.

PERINO: Well, not unless people turn out to vote, because actually, the turnout for his election was actually quite low, and he won that by, like, 90 percent of the vote.

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.

PERINO: If people really care, they're going to have to get out and vote or he's going to have competition.

The thing is, also for this, is that we've taken helicopter parenting into the workplace.


PERINO: So once they actually enter the workplace, now you have to have helicopter employers. So you have to coddle them and make sure that they're OK. And it's not -- if you look at any parenting book now, they're saying -- and actually, the Disney movie, the new one, "Moana," whatever, like one of the lessons in that movie is that you can't have parents doing everything for you. That's you're going to have to, like, go out on your own, so like deal with it that Donald Trump won the election without taxpayer-dollar funding -- funded counseling.

GUTFELD: Juan, if election is causing you to seek therapy, you're hopeless, correct?

WILLIAMS: I don't know about therapy, but I must say, there are a lot of people in America who are depressed over Donald Trump's election.


WILLIAMS: That's a fact.

GUTFELD: But my taxpayer money should not pay for this.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. You pay for counseling for every other thing. You pay for drug...

GUTFELD: I will pay for -- I will pay for -- I will help the homeless get the help they need. I will not pay for that.

WILLIAMS: Well, in fact, I think there are polls show that, like, more than 50 percent of Americans think they're depressed or saddened about this election.

PERINO: But they're not getting taxpayer-funded counseling.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm just saying. But by the way, you guys all dump on de Blasio. I know. Like, the detective who's running for mayor, I don't think there's a whole lot going on here.

GUILFOYLE: Bo Dietl is running. He's a far better individual and serving his country.

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying. Fine.

GUILFOYLE: ... and about this city.

WILLIAMS: You may feel that way, but I'm going to tell you something, some reason that, gee whiz, there's not a lot of people running out to run against Bill de Blasio.

GUILFOYLE: Because we're actually busy and have jobs. Believe me, I would do it in five seconds and crush him.

WILLIAMS: Tell you what. This is a political town, and I will say this to Eric. New York's economy is generating jobs and profits like never before.

GUTFELD: No help from him.

WILLIAMS: And I've got to tell you something. I am still questioning...

BOLLING: Where is that money coming from?

WILLIAMS: It's from business.

BOLLING: One street.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. It's from business. I'm telling you.

BOLLING: Wall street. It's half a block long.

WILLIAMS: No, let me just tell you something. You walk around New York at this time of year, it is splendid, compared to D.C....

BOLLING: You have to walk.

GUILFOYLE: Because you can't drive anywhere. It takes you an hour and 15 minutes to get from the east to the West.

WILLIAMS: I agree. Look at that. New York is a shining gem in America.

GUTFELD: It's a paralyzed gem. Nothing's moving.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I had to get out of my car today to walk over here, because it just didn't move.

BOLLING: That is live. That's a live picture right now. If you had some sort of...

WILLIAMS: And by the way...

BOLLING: ... city manager -- someone, a city manager that could work that out.

WILLIAMS: That is not the point, Eric. Because your point was this is Bill de Blasio's fault. Do you know whose fault this is?

GUILFOYLE: Big Bird de Blasio.

WILLIAMS: Who shut down Times Square? I think his name is Michael Bloomberg.

BOLLING: That's not why, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Yes, it is.

BOLLING: He's got a construction project. He's got ripped up every other street.

WILLIAMS: But you know what I think, I don't understand why Bloomberg and the like didn't -- they want bike paths here and there.

GUTFELD: I hate bike paths.

WILLIAMS; They get these trucks out of here during the day.

GUILFOYLE: You go down here, you bump your head on a car. It's a whole situation. I'm telling you. Sometimes I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, K.G., where are you? Are you in Kandahar? Where are you? How could this be happening?

WILLIAMS: Right. Well, I just think we need better -- but it's not de Blasio. You want to blame de Blasio.


BOLLING: It is the most mismanaged city in the world in the last two years.


WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. That's why it's doing -- if it's so mismanaged...

GUILFOYLE: It's terrible. It's totally inefficient. Rising crime.

WILLIAMS: ... buy me in, because it's doing great.

GUILFOYLE: Homelessness, drug-addicted, confused.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. You should visit some of these other towns.

GUTFELD: I've got to tell you, it's getting bad. It's getting bad. I juts touched a nerve here. Holy crap.

All right. Behold, the brand-new besties, President-elect Trump meets with none other than Yeezus himself, Kanye West. Details when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: You never know who's going to pop up at Trump Tower, this morning the one and only Kanye West stunned reporters when he arrived for a meeting. TMZ released this photo from his face-to-face with president- elect Donald Trump. Here are the two after their sit-down.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, Kanye, what did you guys discuss in your meeting today?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just friends. Just friends. And he's a good man. Very well, long time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you discuss any possible cabinet positions?

TRUMP: We've been friends for a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you guys discuss?

TRUMP: Life.


WILLIAMS: West later tweeting he wanted to meet with Trump to discuss multicultural issues.

Now, from what I understand, Kimberly, Kanye West was here, TMZ reported looking for a psychiatrist, and he goes to see Donald Trump. Any connection?

GUILFOYLE: OK. I don't know about looking for a psychiatrist. I think I know that they've been friends a long time, and I like this kind of outreach, I think. And what Kanye said, too, is you've got to try and communicate and work with the other side. Try to -- I think that's a positive message. I'm glad that he's there. There's many others that are in his field that would not come forward and try to show respect for the president-elect and, you know, continue the message.

But not only was Kanye there, but it was interesting, because Bill Gates was there. And he actually compared the president-elect to Kennedy, to JFK in a statement, saying there can be a very upbeat message, that Trump's administration is going to organize things, get rid of regulatory barriers and have American leadership through innovation.

I like this idea of working for -- together for united America, innovators. You people like Bill Gates and now we need Warren Buffett still on board.

WILLIAMS: Eric, is this -- is this like Hillary Clinton with Beyonce and Jay-Z? Is this all cultural now? Is this bigger than politics; it's just cultural?

BOLLING: I don't know. I'm not sure why he went. What was the purpose of the meeting? I know Kanye West was against Trump first, and then he became for Trump. And then he had a mental breakdown. And then there's -- what - - the guy just needs the camera, does he need the spotlight that badly?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I don't know.

BOLLING: He'll just go seek it out wherever? Didn't make a lot of sense to me.

WILLIAMS: What do you think, Dana?

GUTFELD: Well, I think that President Obama met with all of the celebrities and the left rightly mocked the right when they had furrowed brows about all of it. And I think if somebody calls you up, and they want to meet you and you're in the transition period, and you've got time to do it, do it.


GUTFELD: They're putting out a record.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: I just -- I just got off the phone with...

PERINO: John Roberts?

GUTFELD: ... with my sources, John Roberts, and he's actually got a car phone.

BOLLING: Why? He's going to produce it?

GUTFELD: Yes, but he's got a car phone in his Cruze so it's really nice.

They're going to put out a record. It's going to drop. That's what the kids say. It's going to drop.

WILLIAMS: It's so hip of you to say it that way.

GUTFELD: In 2017.

GUILFOYLE: Somebody upgrade John Roberts.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" coming up next.


PERINO: It's time for "One More Thing." Congratulations to Abby Huntsman, named the official "FOX & Friends" weekend co-host. She will make her official debut on Saturday. She's a great fixture here at FOX News, so congratulations to her. We look forward to watching her career.

GUILFOYLE: She's fantastic.

PERINO: Absolutely. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: And we love her father.

BOLLING: I'm still hoping that -- still hoping she's secretary of state. No.

GUILFOYLE: She is -- she's a real doll. Was really happy when we got her at FOX.

PERINO: You're next, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: A great job like she's been doing. Please get out of my shot, Greg.

So I would like to wish a very happy birthday -- go away -- to the oldest living American right now. Adele Dunlap of New Jersey celebrated her 114th birthday yesterday.


GUILFOYLE: She became the country's oldest person in July, following the death of Goldie Mickelson of Worchester, Massachusetts, who passed away at the age of 113.

She taught school before marrying. She raised three kids. Her husband worked for an insurance company, and he passed away in 1963.


GUILFOYLE: She's been alone by herself for a long time. Guess what? Her son, Earl, 86 years old. Oh, my God, can you imagine this?

PERINO: That's awesome. Happy birthday to her.

Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: It sucks being the oldest person. Because...

BOLLING: Because everyone waits for you to die.

GUTFELD: Yes. Somebody else is waiting for you. You're just going...

GUILFOYLE: Aren't you the oldest here?

GUTFELD: I am. I've got an article...

PERINO: One minute left.

GUTFELD: I've got an article on, best albums of the year. Everybody makes fun of this.

GUILFOYLE: That's so Photoshopped. You look way thinner.

PERINO: Aww. Juan, you're next.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. So baby, it's cold outside. But warm exciting news for the Williams family. My youngest son, the Republican, Raffi, got engaged this weekend, and it was elaborate. Let me tell you. It started with Raffi being driven by his big sister to propose to Morgan, his girlfriend. Says he wasn't nervous. He surprised her while she was out running on the mall, the National Mall, and she happily accepted.

To celebrate that night we had the entire family, including all the future- in-laws, together.


WILLIAMS: Congratulations, Raffi, and congratulations to Morgan. Welcome to the family. We're so happy to have you.

GUILFOYLE: Yay. Republicans do it better.

PERINO: All right.

BOLLING: Very quickly, we have no time for my "One More Thing." Just to reiterate, John Roberts, congrats and also Abby Huntsman.


BOLLING: Two great promotions. Congratulations.

PERINO: All right. That's it for us. "Special Report" right next.

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