This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," September 19, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, what started as a lone wolf investigation into a series of attempted bombings has now erupted into a stunning tale of an Afghan immigrant who made repeated trips to terror hot spots raising serious questions about exactly who he is connected to.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. We've had a lot of news breaking in just the last hour all of which we'll bring to you right now, and also some crazy new video coming in. Over the past two and a half days, authorities have been piecing together clues about bomb plots and attacks in both New Jersey and New York. It all started Saturday morning in New Jersey as folks gathered for a run to benefit service members, a bomb exploded. Fortunately no one was hurt.
But later that night in neighboring New York it was a much different story. At approximately 8:30 p.m. Local Time, a pressure cooker bomb, remember hearing about that in the Boston marathon bombings, went off in Manhattan shattering windows and injuring 29 people. Just a short time later, in what we believe was unrelated attack, terror again struck America, ten people at a Minnesota mall injured in a stabbing spree. The suspect there was taken out by an off-duty officer.
Just hours later, another bomb would be spotted in New York. This one blocks away from the first one. Fortunately it was safely removed. But the very next night two men found another five bombs near a train station in Elizabeth, New Jersey. They alerted police. At about the same time near a New York bridge, authorities were stopping a quote vehicle of interest in the investigation into those Manhattan explosions the night before. Five people were questioned but none is facing any charges this even.
Meantime, back in New Jersey --
(EXPLOSION)
One a.m. Local Time, one of the bombs found near that train station detonated as authorities tried to disarm it with a robot. Remarkably again, no one was hurt. By 7:30 a.m. today, the Feds believe they've zeroed in on the suspect. Twenty eight year old Ahmad Khan Rahami. Less than four hours later, they found the man they believe was this suspect who had been sleeping in the doorway of a bar and we just got this video of what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNFIRES)
(BLEEP)
(GUNFIRES)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is still moving. He's still moving. He's still moving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: A wild shootout that left two officers injured before the suspected terrorist was finally taken into custody in video that is just remarkable.
We've got a jam-packed show for you tonight complete with former FBI assistant director in charge, James Kallstrom. New York Congressman Peter King and former CIA Director James Woolsey.
But we begin with our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge reporting live from Washington. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, tonight, the FBI is focused on Rahami's overseas travel. And at least three trips to his native Afghanistan, a law enforcement source the frequency of the trips were not suspicious at the time because of his family ties. And a number of trips did not suggests Rahami has outside help to finance the flights. A second law enforcement source back up the account adding the FBI is now investing who Rahami met with and whether they a plan to siege a radicalization.
Rahami immigrated to the U.S. with his family when he was seven-years-old, and he is a naturalized US citizen. And late today, new information about prior contact between the FBI and Rahami after a domestic dispute. The victim alleged that Rahami also showed signs of possible radicalization. Two sources confirmed to Fox the FBI followed up on the lead but there was not enough to pursue it and the original allegations were withdrawn. Here's how the FBI described the contact at today's news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing to indicate that currently he was on our radar. We had a report of a domestic incident some time ago. The allegations were recanted and I don't have any other information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Well, police say they're not looking for other suspects or a broader cell, they are running down leads from the New York City surveillance video, you see here with the pressure cooker bomb exploded injuring 29.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT BOYCE, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: We identified -- we have a video of two persons who picked up the bag, took the device out of it and then walked off with the bag. Now we went back to see where they came from. They looked like they were two gentlemen just strolling up and down 7th Avenue at the time. We have no information that would link them to this at all. However we still want to talk to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Base on the initial forensic review, two government sources say the bombs look like the work of an amateur rather than someone who had formal hands-on training because the damage and injuries today could have been so much worse -- Megyn.
KELLY: Catherine, thank you.
As investigators piece together what drove this man to plant multiple bombs in New York and New Jersey, there are new and potentially alarming pieces of information to take into account and they involve his Pakistani wife and reports of a brother who openly voiced support for Islamic Jihad.
For more on that, we go to Trace Gallagher live in our West Coast Newsroom. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, despite Ahmad Rahami not being on the FBI's radar, someone who might have been radicalized, those who know Rahami saw things much differently. His friends say he used to be a normal guy who wore sweats pants, t-shirts and spent time modifying and racing souped-up Honda Civics. But 27-year-old Flee Jones who grew up with Ahmad Rahami told FOX News that when Rahami came back from Afghanistan, a couple of years ago, he had grown a beard and was much more reserved. Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLEE JONES, FRIEND OF AHMAD RAHAMI: His appearance was difference. He was more religious and from back then he dressed like a normal person --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Rahami's high school sweetheart and the mother of his daughter told FOXNews.com he used to be the class clown but became a dead beat dad who hated gays, the military and railed against American culture. The mother of Rahami's here in the U.S. also says he had a wife and child in Afghanistan. But today New Jersey Democratic Congressman Albio Sires says, the wife was in Pakistan because in 2014 Rahami contacted his office for help in getting her to the U.S. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did his wife ever get to the United States?
STATE REP. ALBIO SIRES, D-N.J.: I assume she did. At the time she was pregnant and in Pakistan, they told her she could not come over until she had the baby. She had to get a visa for the baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And the L.A. Times is now reporting that the Pakistani wife left the U.S. a few days ago but has now been intercepted by officials in the United Arab Emirates. Police will not confirm or deny whether members of Rahami's family were among the five people stopped last night near the Verrazano Bridge. The Verrazano connects Brooklyn to Staten Island.
The vehicle was pulled over because it was seen leaving a location associated with the alleged bomber. All five have since been released and the police won't comment about the possibility of them facing other charges. We know Rahami has two brothers both named Muhammad. One of them reportedly posted a jihadi message to Facebook in 2013 showing fighters in Syria that reads, quote, "I bring the men who desire death as ardently as you desire life." Unclear if that's the same brother who reportedly fled to Afghanistan following a fight with a New Jersey police officer. And today the father of the suspected bomber told NBC News he had no idea his son was doing this -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
A lot to unpack there. Joining us now to help us flesh it out the reporting from Trace and Catherine. We've got New York Congressman Peter King, who is a Republican and member of the Homeland Security Committee and permanent select committee and intelligence. Congressman, good to see you tonight.
REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y.: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: A lot in that report. But let me just start with you broadly because you're actually somebody who gets briefed on this kind of thing. What are we missing here? As this unfolds today, you know, just today, this man apprehended, what's your take on it?
KING: First of all, the police and the FBI did a great job. They pretty much have this narrowed down, I'd say by late Sunday afternoon, Sunday evening. Again terrific police work. I don't think it's over. I mean, listen, hopefully this is it. Hopefully he's the only one involved. But I do know that the police and the FBI, they are looking overseas to see if there's any overseas influence or any overseas involvement. Also, they're looking at if there's anybody else in this country involved.
I mean, we don't know for certain that he's the only one. There are about 10 bombs were made altogether. He had to bring them back and forth in one day from New York -- from Jersey to New York, two stops in New York and then the bombs back in Elizabeth. So this is -- it's not definite that he was operating by himself, that he was a lone wolf.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
KING: So, I can tell you that the investigation continues to see if there are any other people involved or is there anyone still on the loose out there.
KELLY: Especially given what we are told is the size of his apartment above their chicken restaurant which looks tiny with one window, a one window air conditioner and the question is whether this man by himself in that apartment made all of the bombs by himself with nobody else noticing and managed to do this, you know, under the radar of anybody. But is there the possibility of a terror cell in New Jersey? Because authorities waived the news media off of that today.
KING: Well, I have no independent information but I think we have to assume there's always a possibility of that, especially when you see his activity. And the fact, as you say, that he was able to construct these bombs, have at least 10 bombs. He lives in a small confined area. You have to get all the materials, he had to get the gun, who did we get that from, how did he get it? And it's hard to believe that no one knew or had any idea what he was up to.
So whether it's an active cell or people to facilitate, or people look the other way, or people know what he's doing but deciding not to tell the police. All of that will be fully investigated. Now hopefully it turned out he's the only one. But you have to assume the purpose of the investigation, I believe there could be more out there.
KELLY: Uh-hm. You know, we talk about cracking down on immigration. It appears that the man who spotted him pass out in the vestibule, the bar was himself an immigrant. You know, it's a wide net. We got to be careful, do we not?
KING: Yes. We do. I mean, we have a nation of immigrants. And, I'm, you know, a grandson of immigrants. Again, I think when it comes to people coming from countries which are controlled by terrorists or have strong terrorist influence, the level of vetting should be higher than it is let's say from someone who is coming from Sweden or Denmark.
KELLY: But this guy, you know, this guy immigrated here when he was seven, right? With his parents. He was seven. He went 21 years without doing any terror acts as far as we know.
KING: Yes. Let me just say generally, as far as somebody coming from a terrorists, a country or a country where there's a strong terror influence, you have to be extremely careful on the vetting. Now on this case, again, we have to look more into his family. What's the story with his brother? What's the story with his sister? What's the story with his mother and father?
KELLY: Great to see you, Congressman. Thanks for being here.
KING: Thank you, Megyn always. Thank you.
KELLY: Joined now by James Kallstrom, former assistant director of the FBI and a man who has worked terror investigations in the past. Jim, good to see you.
So, where would you start here to figure out whether this is indeed some lone wolf whose ticked off because of his trips to Pakistan or Afghanistan or because the mother of his child says he just disliked America, hated gays and thought that American culture was offensive or whether this is something bigger?
JAMES KALLSTROM, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Why don't we start right there, Megyn? I mean, how many times have we talked about this. You know, we have to have more imagination. We have to take the political correctness not only off the FBI and the police but off of the citizens in general.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
KALLSTROM: You know, why wasn't this called in and why wasn't it taken seriously? You know, we've talked about before the FBI not having the resources. I don't want to get into detail but I can tell you point blank, they don't have the resources.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
KALLSTROM: Why are we not dealing with this issue? This administration apparently is not going to deal with it. They could care less.
KELLY: Can you talk about that because, you know, we mock political correctness a lot. Because sometimes we can be completely mockable and irritating. But in a situation like this, the neighbor says and the friend, I guess, say -- let me just get it straight. Yes. So, somebody who knew him said he disappeared for a while, he went to Afghanistan, as "The New York Times" reporting, when he returned some patrons at the chicken restaurant noticed a transformation. He grew a beard.
He exchanges typical wardrobe of t-shirts and sweat pants and wear traditional Muslim robes. He began to pray in the back of the store. He became more stern. And the folks who watched this said, I didn't want to say anything because, you know, I knew how it would perceive. Like he was basically becoming more religious but that didn't mean he was becoming a terrorists.
KALLSTROM: Megyn, you just answered your own question. I mean, why did these people not call in? I mean, how many of these bombs need to go off. What are we going to do when one of these bombs kills 100 people or 1,000 people, it's a chemical weapon or a biological weapon or God forbid some kind of a nuclear weapon? I mean, we don't know what comes and goes into this country. We really have no control over our southern border whatsoever.
I mean, when are we going to get serious about this? I guess we got to wait for the next administration. I see Hillary Clinton today is talking about, you know, making sure that the people who come in get vetted. And that's the first time I've heard that from anybody in that party. But absolutely. I mean, we all came from somewhere else. My parents came from -- my grandparents came from somewhere else. My wife's came from somewhere else but that doesn't mean we have to be stupid. You know, that means we need to be smart about who's coming here. And those changes you just described. You know, either the public has to tell us that in the chicken restaurant, the relatives or the local police.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
KALLSTROM: You know, this guy came up on the radar. Right? He came up in the radar.
KELLY: And had been traveling frequently to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
KALLSTROM: Yes. And then travelling back and forth. Yes and in Afghanistan, travelling what I understand to where the Taliban controls --
KELLY: Yes, that's right.
KALLSTROM: Okay. Afghanistan. Okay? So, I mean, right there alone --
KELLY: Yes.
KALLSTROM: I mean, I'm sure the FBI -- I'm not blaming them. I was there. I don't second-guess that. But they just don't have the resource to deal with all of this stuff. And I've said this at least 50 times on national television.
KELLY: Jim, always appreciate your perspective. Thanks for being here.
KALLSTROM: Yes. Thank you.
KELLY: He's right. Hillary Clinton did talk today about we need to be careful in the vetting that we do of immigrants. She has said it before, the rhetoric today was sharper. We've got more breaking news. We just got it in moments ago. Reports now of a handwritten note left near one of those bombs in Chelsea, that's an area of New York City that did not explode, that mentioned the Boston marathon bombers. We'll show you what it says and run it by Colonel Tony Schafer, Brigitte Gabriel and Brad Thor right after this break.
Plus, former CIA Director James Woolsey joins us live on all the breaking news, along with the fight between Trump and Clinton over how we screen folks coming from terror hot spots.
And then Chris Stirewalt and Dana Perino are here. They have early guidance on how this may play with the voters. We are 50 days away from a presidential election folks and we are hearing new information from witnesses about what happened when the suspect and the police came face to face, next.
It sounded like one of those movies, you know, they're non-stopping. You know? He never stopped shooting. He reloaded and he kept on shooting. Same things with the cop. They were trying to get them. But it was just crazy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we are getting a new video now. The terror suspect accused of planting a series of bombs in New York and New Jersey. Here you've seen him trying to take off after police caught up with him in Linden, New Jersey. We are also learning more about how the suspect managed to build and plant a series of devices that each had the power to kill any number of people close enough to the blast radius. Rick Leventhal is live at the scene of one of the New York blast. Let's take a closer look at that. Rick?
RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the suspect believed to have planted devices in four different locations including here on 23rd Street. A pressure cooker bomb, very similar to the one used by the Boston marathon bombers that was packed with BBs and ball bearings and injured 29 people when it went off. Then there were pipe bombs in two locations in New Jersey, including Seaside Park and then there was that device on 27th Street, another pressure cooker bomb that was left inside a duffel bag. Some strange things happened. First, a couple of guys picked up the duffel bag and took the pressure cooker out of it apparently to steal the duffel bag and they left with that duffel bag but left the pressure cooker on the street.
And then a woman who lives on that block came outside when she heard the explosion on 23rd Street, she saw the pressure cooker on the street, she's a photographer, she came down here and checked out this blast. And then she said she couldn't get the other pressure cooker out of her head. She went back up to 27th and looked at it again, took pictures of it. She was concerned because there were wires coming out of it and a duct tape and a cellphone attached. She called the police, the bomb squad showed up and told her to run, which is what she did. And of course that turned out to be a similar device, it did not explode.
And then last night in Elizabeth, New Jersey, at the train station there, a couple of guys got very lucky. Homeless guys picked up a backpack, it was heavy, they thought it might be filled with valuables. They say they walked 800 to 1,000 yards until they noticed wires coming out of that backpack. So, they got scared. They put it down and they called the police who sent in a robot to check out that bag and of course that's when one of those pipe bombs detonated -- Megyn. Authorities say, those two men were not only lucky to be alive but also may have saved hundreds of others -- Megyn.
KELLY: Unbelievable. Rick, thank you.
Also just coming in to us moments ago, reports of a handwritten note found near one of the unexploded bombs, not yet confirmed by Fox News. Making illusions to the 2013 Boston marathon bombers who also employed pressure cookers in an act of terror.
Joining me now, Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer who is a CIA trained former senior intelligence officer. Brigitte Gabriel, the author of "Because They Hate." And Brad Thor who is a best-selling author and former member of the Homeland Security Department's red cell unit.
Good to see you all. So let me start with you, Colonel, on this. And this guy who is 28-years-old, couple years of community college. Immigrated here from Afghanistan when we was seven, kept going back to Afghanistan, kept going back to Pakistan. And you heard the description, our first segment about the appearance that he was becoming more devout after those trips.
LT. COL. TONY SHAFFER (RET.), CIA TRAINED INTEL OPERATIVE: Right. Radicalize. Right. Well, that's the key. I mean, look Megyn, that's not the first time we faced this. Back right after the 9/11 attacks, our -- base out that we were a joint operation looking at Al-Shabaab because there were great radicalized communities in places like Detroit and Minneapolis. So we prevented this sort of thing from happening, even though al Qaeda was trying to do it, by the fact we did this hybrid operations with the FBI. I can't go into details because they're classified.
But we were very effective in trying to get ahead of this very thing. We saw the radicalization going on, we were able to put agents down range or able to work with special operations command to do some very exotic, very effective things. So, this is not the first time we've seen this pattern. Faisal Hassan did the same thing in Times Square. So what we're seeing here, Megyn, it's not a lack of capability or understanding of how radicalization happens or how to get ahead of it, it's a policy decision to not do the right thing to get ahead of it.
KELLY: You know, Brigitte, there is a question about if he kept traveling overseas and did have a brush with law enforcement, the woman dropped the charges but he had a brush with law enforcement that was violent and going to terror hot spots, then he comes back and what would have happened if the cops or the FBI looked into him and found this mother of his child who said he hated the U.S. military, by the way one of the bombs was placed at a marine's race, he hated homosexuals, two of the bombs were placed in Chelsea, which is an area very popular among gay men and lesbian women. He disliked Americans on and on, he went.
BRIGITTE GABRIEL, FOUNDER AND CEO, ACT FOR AMERICA: Well, all of the signs were there. It's not like they didn't know him. They were familiar with him. They had his pictures. Immediately they put it up on national media. So, he was on the radar. And they could have saved lives if they would have done their job. The problem again like what Tony said, it's coming down from the top. It's the policy where the blind is leading the blind. The agents are walking around with shackles around their ankles. They can only do certain things. They are forbidden from taking action when they know they need to take action lest they lose their job or they'll be reprimanded.
SHAFFER: That's correct.
GABRIEL: It's the policy of the Obama administration.
KELLY: You know, Brad, some in the media are coming out tonight saying, hey, be a New Yorker, you know, be cool. This is what happens. I actually think it's a testament to the safety of America that people are so alarmed by this still and that this isn't just oh, another day, another bombing. Because then you're Israel. I mean, with all due respect and love to our friends in Israel, this is how they've been having to live for a long time except they're more prepared.
BRAD THOR, SHADOWED BLACK OPS IN AFGHANISTAN: Well, we've talked about this before, Megyn and that is my biggest fear is that we end up under a constant state of siege like Israel. With this repeated attacks against soft targets. And probably one of the biggest disservices that was done to New York and New Jersey was the dismantling of the NYPD's demographics unit. You know we need to be penetrating Muslim communities not to entrap people, not to harass them or violate their civil liberties, but we need to putting agents in there so that we can spot these things. We need trip wires. And political correctness is forcing us to pull out all of the trip wires. So you have no warning of this. You don't know that this is going to happen until it happens. And that is the most dangerous things facing America right now in political correctness.
KELLY: Colonel Shaffer, what do you make about these sophistication of the detonation technique and of these reports about the bombs potentially having something called HMTD in them, which is untold, makes a very powerful bomb, very deadly.
SHAFFER: Well, this tells me two things. First, this was a dry run. This was something that he was trained to do. I'm sorry, this was not a lone wolf. The fact he went forward -- and again Brad is correct. I can't confirm what he was saying but that's kind of what we were doing before. We've got to start looking at -- this is not Shaolin monks coming together and doing something in China flying back. This is a group, we know who they are, we know where they're at. And we start to take this very seriously.
Because what he did, Megyn, they're using new explosives in new ways and trying to test to see what happens. This was a dry run. So, you can darn well expect to see more of this unless as Brigitte says and as Brad said, we get a lot more aggressive to start looking at how to get ahead of these folks. And it's not simply about just profiling the population, actually penetrating them with human intelligence. My friend and Mike Flynn talked about this. We've got to get ahead of them. Simply keeping up with them, people are going to die. They're going to try new things to get around this. So, we got to get ahead of them and we have to do it aggressively.
KELLY: And that is one of the questions that we have, is what has the administration done to find these needles in the haystack since we saw these terror attacks in Orlando and elsewhere. We're going to pick that up with the former CIA director next. Thank you all so much for being here.
We've also got new details tonight from the terror attack inside that mall in Minnesota including a new victim and more on what the suspect there was saying to people right before he attacked.
Then as I mentioned, former CIA Director James Woolsey is here along with former President Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee on the terror debate playing out in the presidential campaign and in this country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we're learning new details on the man behind another potential terror attack inside the U.S. over the weekend. On Saturday night, just about an hour outside of Minneapolis, in St. Cloud, Minnesota, a young Muslim man storming a crowded mall and going on a stabbing spree, reportedly yelling in Arabic, and demanding to know if his victims were Muslims. In moments, we'll be joined by former CIA director James Woolsey on the terror threat we face. But first, we begin with our senior correspondent Mike Tobin who is live in St. Cloud, Minnesota with the new details and the latest in that investigation. Mike.
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPODENT: And, Megyn, police have just confirmed the identity of the attacker, Dahir Adan. They only have their age, 20 years old, 22 is what we were told earlier. It was just about this time on Saturday night when Adan entered the mall. He worked part-time as a security guard. Police says he was wearing his uniform. Witnesses say he referenced a lot. He asked one of his victims if he was a Muslim before hacking him with a knife. About 12 hours later, an ISIS-linked news agency went to Twitter and stated that one of the soldiers of the Islamic State had carried out this attack. And he was executing a call for lone wolf attacks. Investigators here however cannot make that connection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I talk to you today, we haven't uncovered anything that would suggest anything other than it was a lone attacker at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOBIN: Now, we don't know of any warnings that Adan was radicalizing or could be violent. He was an honor student in high school, he went to a local college studying information systems. His only run-ins with the law were minor traffic stops. Megyn, back to you.
KELLY: Mike, thank you. Here's just a taste of how the terror issue played out on the campaign trail today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The rhetoric we've heard from Donald Trump has been seized on by terrorists, in particular ISIS.
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president of the United States or my opponent and both won't even say the words radical Islamic terror.
CLINTON: Donald Trump is being used as a recruiting sergeant for the terrorists.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton talks tougher about my supporters than she does about Islamic terrorists, right?
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: You don't hear a plan from him. He keeps saying he has a secret plan. Well, the secret is that he has no plan.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is a weak and ineffective person. And I will tell you, if you choose Donald Trump, these problems are going to go away far, far greater than anybody would think. Believe me.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: In moments we'll speak with former CIA director and Donald Trump advisor, James Woolsey. But we begin with Austan Goolsbee, former advisor to President Obama and a professor at the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business. Austin, good to see you.
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Hi, Megyn. How are you?
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: You know, of course, whenever something like this happens, people want accountability and they want somebody to blame because they want change, right. They want to change the circumstance that it doesn't happen again. But specifically, with respect to your former boss, what has he done since the Orlando terror attack to try to make sure we find these needles in the hay stack like this guy in Minnesota and this guy in New Jersey?
GOOLSBEE: Well, I think they've done a number of things, most of which, as you know, are absolutely top secret and they don't want to broadcast what websites they're checking, how they're tracking people, or whether putting hard intelligence on the ground or infiltrating. But they have been applying -- trying to apply heightened scrutiny and monitoring the communications of terrorists, domestic terrorists as well as abroad.
KELLY: And when you hear Donald Trump out there saying basically, you will be safer with me and you know that as a traditional matter, Republicans are favored on issues of national security and terrorism. She rates a little higher than he does on steady commander-in-chief. But he out rates her who do you trust to handle terrorism. How does this play as you see it, in the upcoming election?
GOOLSBEE: Well, I think -- we can look in the polls. And the latest polls actually quite unusual as you say by historical standards. Hillary Clinton is out-polling Donald Trump on who do you think would be better dealing with terrorism. And I'm not surprised by that. I don't know if you are. I think Donald Trump is a guy that screams out at you almost literally as a person who has major self-control problems. And you do not want as commander=in-chief in a major crisis somebody with major self-control problems. He has proposed at various points in this campaign, nuclearizing Saudi Arabia, kidnapping and killing the children and families of people that are suspected of being terrorists, carpet bombing parts of the Middle East, some of which are our allies with no regard to whether they are civilians or not, bombing the oil fields of Iraq, as well as banning Muslims from the United States, and things like that.
Now, all of those are not the way that you confront terrorism. You cannot fight a war on terror without allies and you can't go around alienating all of the allies, threatening to withdraw from NATO.
KELLY: OK.
GOOLSBEE: And not put yourself in trouble.
KELLY: I do think the latest Fox News poll shows her less trusted than Trump when it comes handling terrorism. I will put it on the board, but it's pretty tight. Austan, thank you for being here.
GOOLSBEE: Thank you.
KELLY: Also joining us tonight, Ambassador James Woolsey. He is a former CIA director. And last week,, he became the senior foreign policy advisor to the Trump campaign. Great to see you, Ambassador.
JAMES WOOLSEY, SENIOR FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: Good to be with you, Megyn.
KELLY: So, you know, maybe all of that stuff that Austan just said is right. But right now, one of the things people like Trump's policies are he talks tough about immigration, and not letting in immigrants from terror-ridden areas without more screening. That would not have necessarily prevented this family from being here.
WOOLSEY: That's true. This fellow I think came to the United States when he was seven years old.
KELLY: A New Jersey guy.
WOOLSEY: But whether it's from a culture in another country, that even when transplanted with the United States, still fosters some terrorist individual.
KELLY: Yes.
WOOLSEY: Or whether its people who slip through the immigration net even though they have a dark background and so forth, we aren't going to succeed at this, I think, just by setting up individual barriers, individual hoops to jump through. We've got to have a systemic approach. And the best model I can think of, some of what they did is relevant to this situation, is the operations of Giuliani and Kelly in New York with the broken windows approach, trying to keep things from getting out of hand.
(CROSSTALK)
WOOLSEY: Exactly.
KELLY: There are some reports that ISIS is having difficulty recruiting westerners who live here in America and help them out. But they're not that inclined, even though they may be diseffective with some of our cultural you know norms. They don't want to help kill Americans.
WOOLSEY: That would be great. We want to wish all ill to them. But I think that we're going to have to be far more involved, the police and the FBI and the investigating agencies.
KELLY: Right, they should be communicating more.
WOOLSEY: Right.
KELLY: Let me ask you this, because he says Trump comes out saying that the Obama-Clinton doctrine of not taking ISIS seriously enough has emboldened terrorists around the world. Do you believe that's true?
WOOLSEY: Well, I think it's not just ISIS that the Obama administration has not taken seriously enough. It's the whole notion of a chunk of the Islamic world having war with us. It was I think (inaudible) who said you may not be interested in war, but war may be interested in you. And the administration, everything from their failure to name Islamic terrorism to their continually saying that everything is fine because we've killed Bin Laden to their devotion to the narrative, rather than to the facts, fiddling around with the facts, so they fit into their narrative. All of that really is part of the problem. We didn't fight World War II that way. That's the way you fight something if you don't mind losing. And the Obama administration.
KELLY: It's interesting you should mention that term narrative. Just today, Josh Earnest, the White House spokesperson, said that we're in a narrative fight with ISIS.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: And low and behold, that was your own term to describe their policy tonight.
WOOLSEY: You want to take pieces of paper with the narrative on them and throw them at the terrorists?
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Let's hope that's not how you're doing it when you were running the CIA.
WOOLSEY: I don't know.
KELLY: Great to see you.
So Donald Trump, Jr. sent out a tweet about a terror just a couple of hours ago and it is blowing up the internet. Stirewalt and Perino are next on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't think that he's a guy. I just confronted him because he was leaning towards the door. I warned him that he might get hurt, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you feel when you found out he was the guy the country was looking for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was shaking when I saw his face. I was watching the news this morning on my laptop. I said this guy looks so much alike. They said let's call it. At the back of my mind, it is like keep ringing bells that he looks like that guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: That was the New Jersey bar owner who discovered the terror suspect sleeping into his tavern's doorway, and called the cops today. Good for him. All this comes just 50 days before the presidential elections. And Donald Trump, Jr., brought new heat to the political fight just a couple hours ago with this tweet. It says if I had a bowl of Skittles and I told you just three would kill, would you take a handful? That's our Syrian refugee problem, he wrote. Joining me now, the new co-hosts of I'll tell you what, which airs Sunday right here on FNC, Fox News digital politics editor Chris Stirewalt and former White House press secretary under George W. Bush, Dana Perino. Good to see you both.
DANA PERINO, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH: You say that well.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I'll tell you what, I've been listening to it for like 10 years. OK. Donald Trump, Jr., sent out that tweet.
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Yes.
KELLY: I don't know. The kids keep getting hit for stuff they do, but he puts himself out there I would say more than the others. Inappropriate? Helpful?
STIREWALT: Helpful in this way. If Donald Trump can use his kids, especially his son, to speak to an audience that Trump shouldn't be seen in public speaking to, people who tweet white nationalists means, and stuff like that, that if you can take care of that small, but important core group of supporters, if you can take of them by having your son deal with them, so that Trump doesn't have to do it, I guess there is utility in that.
KELLY: General Jack Keane says we can vet these Syrian refugees and it is not like a bowl of Skittles where three will kill you. He really -- I mean, he's not a huge Hillary Clinton person.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: But he really believes that we can vet that. I want to ask you this. I'm just looking at the polls, after a discussion I just had. And it turns out, most of the polls actually show she is more trusted when it comes to handling terrorism, but one more recent one said he is more trusted. But listen to this.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: The Q poll says when it comes to the percentage of supporters concerned they'll be the victim terrorist attacks, Clinton supporters 29 percent, Trump supporters 68, Dana.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: It's overall across the country. It's higher today than it was even right after 9/11. It's the highest ever. You know, that's partly because you see a change from worries about a catastrophic attack like you saw on 9/11 or one of these lone wolf ones. And so, whereas you might have thought before, look, I live in Boise, Idaho, I'm not that worried.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Now, you see that lone wolves are everywhere making a cyber-pack. One thing about the Donald Trump, Jr., tweet, I think it's clever, right. If you're speaking to a certain audience, it's clever. OK, I get it.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: The problem is if you find out that those Skittles were actually the ones that you left in your pocket last winter, because those skittles are already here.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: It's not like he can make a choice. They're already here.
PERINO: They're in your pocket. There are two separate discussions, bringing more Syrian refugees is one thing, but naturalized American citizens.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: What does this tell you, these terror ratings, that she's ahead of him in a lot of these polls? He's one point ahead of her.
STIREWALT: They're tied. Fundamentally, they're tied on the question of handling terrorism. What that tells us is that it's good news for her, because in May, Trump led in our poll by 16 points in May on the question of handling terrorism. Now, it's down basically to a tie. That's good news for her. But as Dana points out, as people are concerned, I think the Minnesota attack is especially indicative. As people become concerned that in their peaceful normal plain bread sandwich communities, that all of the sudden there could be a guy that shows up outside of the limited with a knife and goes berserk, that changes people's thinking.
KELLY: But to whose benefit, right? Because her whole thing is influence that she wins the race. I've been Secretary of State, I have been tested, experience, experience, experience, which has been against her. Until now, I don't know.
PERINO: Well, I think he does benefit from a couple of things. He's the out-party candidate. He's the one for change. If you are worried that the current administration hasn't done enough to protect you from possible future attack, you could look to a Donald Trump and say at least, you would try something different, at least he is saying he is willing to do something different and he can actually muster up some emotion about it. I think it's tied and it could go either way. But I think the debate next Monday night is critically important on this issue.
KELLY: It is going to focus in part on national security. I know we are all very excited about the debate. And we will be there live broadcasting for you. Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Up next, what President Obama has to say about all of this next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking news tonight, there is a video that we hope we are getting outside of a meeting that Donald Trump had with the Egyptian president, which comes as critics are questioning how Mr. Obama handle the weekend's events, staying mostly silent until today when he praised the first responders and asked reporters to quote show restraint. Trace Gallagher has the latest, live from our West Coast Bureau. Trace.
GALLAGHER: Megyn, 56 minutes after the first bomb exploded, the president spoke at the Congressional Black Caucus in Washington, D.C. The president made no mention of the attack, although it has been unclear he had been briefed. He did however make a joke about ISIS, and at the very same time, a young Somali man was accused of going on a stabbing spree in St. Cloud, Minnesota, that wounded 10, a stabbing that ISIS claimed responsibility for.
On Sunday night, the president appeared at a private New York fundraiser just blocks away from where the bomb exploded in Chelsea, the president went after Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Donald Trump. But again, no mention of the attack. Later that night, five pipe bombs were discovered near a train station in Elizabeth, New Jersey. Today, as the news was breaking in the arrest of suspected bomber Ahmad Khan Rahami, the president made his first public comments about the attacks, offering prayers for the victim, praise for the police, and scolding the media. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It was not help if false reports or incomplete information is out there. So, try to, as much as possible, stick to what our investigators say because they actually know what they're talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And although New York governor Andrew Cuomo had already called the attacks terror and the president has spoken to Cuomo, Mr. Obama did not use the same description, instead he referred to both as explosions.
KELLY: It is just what the officials said we would be repeating Mayor de Blasio who said it wasn't terror, which of course now we know it was. Trace, thank you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Larry Sabato has revised his crystal ball electoral map and how, he will be here tomorrow night with his new projections. You don't want to miss it. In the meantime, go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. On Twitter, @megynkelly. Let me know what you think. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly and this is "The Kelly File."
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