Rep. Pompeo outlines important findings in Benghazi report

Select Committee on Benghazi member, R-Kansas, provides insight


This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," July 3, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  Good morning.  Security concerns raised to a new level this holiday weekend, following another deadly terrorist attack at an airport overseas.  

Hi, everyone.  I'm Maria Bartiromo.  Welcome to "Sunday Morning Futures."

What new polls show how Americans feel about the government's ability to prevent a terrorist attack, coming up.  We'll hear from former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani, and the chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee in just a moment.  

Running mates, who will Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton select as their vice presidential candidates as the conventions approach?  Our panel on that as we look ahead this morning on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  The director of the CIA warning it's possible an attack similar to the one in turkey could happen on U.S. soil.  Dozens of people killed after three suicide bombers attacked a busy airport in Istanbul this past week, raids resulting in the arrest of more than a dozen people.

Meanwhile, new FOX News polls shows 84 percent of Americans are nervous about the country's ability to prevent a terrorist attack.  Only 11 people say they are confident in the government's ability to prevent an attack.  

Rudy Giuliani is the former mayor of New York City, and he joins us right now.  

Good to see you, Mr. Mayor.  


BARTIROMO:  Your reaction to these polls?  

GIULIANI:  Well, the polls reflect, I think, exactly the kind of reaction you would have after the last year that we've had.  San Bernardino is less than a year ago.  

BARTIROMO:  Right.  

GIULIANI:  San Bernardino, right?  Paris.  

BARTIROMO:  Brussels.  

GIULIANI:  Brussels.  Orlando.  Turkey.  And then smaller attacks, too numerous to mention, all in less than a year.  All of it part of the Islamic extremist movement against us, against Western Europe, in this particular case, against Turkey.  

This may -- people shouldn't get confused here.  They say Russians, but we're talking about Islamic Russians.  

BARTIROMO:  Right.  

GIULIANI:  These are the same people as -- similar to the Tsarnaev brothers.  The administration love to try to not see the connection.  They got people believing that Orlando was a mass murder.  In a poll, 3 percent more believe it's a mass murder, than terrorist attack.  

Of course, it's a mass murder, but it's also a terrorist attack.  September 11 was a mass murder also.  But it was a terrorist attack.

The thing in Orlando was done in the name of Islamic State.  


GIULIANI:  The man announced it.  You don't have to be a genius to figure out it's connected.  

BARTIROMO:  What is this inability on the part of President Obama to call this what it is?  Why can't he just admit the terrorists are getting stronger?  

GIULIANI:  I think that's one of the reasons that poll is so high.  He seems to be the only one that doesn't get it in the country.  Him and 11 percent seem to be the only ones who don't get it.  John Kerry doesn't get it either.  He announced yesterday that ISIS is basically defeated.  

BARTIROMO:  That's right.  He said that.  

GIULIANI:  These are the last gestures of a failing, I mean, how ridiculous


BARTIROMO:  Unbelievable.  

GIULIANI:  -- September 11th the last gestures of a failing al Qaeda?  

No, we had to go in and destroy them.  They don't want to take military action.  I mean, they don't want to go in and destroy ISIS.  It needs not just air attacks, it needs something the president loves to say, but he says the opposite, it needs boots on the ground.  Not no boots on the ground.  


GIULIANI:  We need to get in there and we need to kill these people.  

BARTIROMO:  To take them out.

GIULIANI:  We got to take them out, because they want to take us out.  

BARTIROMO:  Who do you think is winning this war on terror from a communications standpoint?  We've got, you know, is it the U.S.?  Is it Clinton?  Is it Donald Trump?  

GIULIANI:  Well, I think this helps Donald Trump greatly, because as you look at the two of them -- I mean, she's already had her chance and she's been a failure.  She was a failed attorney general.  We could list ten things that will worsen the world after she left than when she came, including resetting the relationship with Russia, including getting rid of Moammar Gadhafi in Libya, where we now have a terror state and an ISIS camp.  ISIS was a jayvee before Barack Obama.  

BARTIROMO:  Unbelievable.  

GIULIANI:  And then he never recognized, how bad is your intelligence?  How bad is your State Department?  If you don't recognize that ISIS had become a very dangerous organization.  And you call it the jayvee.  

BARTIROMO:  Unbelievable.  

GIULIANI:  So Hillary has had her chance.  And she screwed it up, as a secretary of state.  She was a terrible secretary of state.  

Kerry may exceed her.  Who knows?  We'll see.  He's got a chance.  


GIULIANI:  So, Trump is somebody new.  He's somebody tough.  He's somebody willing to go take the fight to them.  And he takes it a lot more seriously, certainly than the president, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry.  So I have to expect that this is going to help Trump tremendously. I have a lot more confidence that Trump would take significant action to protect America than I do Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, or Barack Obama.  

BARTIROMO:  You think a President Trump would go in there, with boots on the ground, and get --

GIULIANI:  I think that President Trump would sit down with his secretary of state, with his military, and he would implement a plan that involved taking them out, destroying them.  He says that.  He says the right words.  We have to destroy them.  

BARTIROMO:  Right.  

GIULIANI:  And you're not going to do it with, you know, surgical bombings, and I hate to say this, but, and not killing civilians.  Harry Truman killed more civilians than any American president.  Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both civilian targeted.  Saved a million American lives.  


GIULIANI:  And I might not have children today if he didn't do that, because my father-in-law, ex-father- in-law, now dead served in the Navy.  He could have been dead.  My uncle served in the Navy.  He could have been dead.  So my two cousins might not be alive.  


GIULIANI:  And I could -- there are people with me right here on the Fourth of July who have to know that.  So he made the decision to kill civilians so that a million Americans wouldn't die.  

BARTIROMO:  What's your sense of terrorists on the home soil right now? Here we are, we have millions of people traveling for the July 4th weekend, this weekend.  How worried should we be that there are terrorists now waiting for a directive from ISIS?  

GIULIANI:  All I can do is repeat what the administration is saying.  And it almost seems like they don't communicate with each other.  It's almost like Brennan doesn't talk to Kerry.  Kerry is telling us we're defeating ISIS, and Brennan is saying there's a substantial force here in the United States and this could happen here.  

Well, if what happened in Turkey can happen here, we haven't defeated ISIS. Then, Kerry and Brennan, they don't talk to each other.  Maybe Kerry doesn't get briefings from the CIA.  I have no idea.  But if Brennan is saying the same thing to Kerry and the president, we've got an administration that's going two different directions.  

BARTIROMO:  Yes.  You know, we've talked to a lot of people about Donald Trump, and they say, look, he has a chance to win if he sticks to the issues.  Is he going to be able to stick to the issue of terrorism and what he might do about it?  

GIULIANI:  Well, I think, you know, world events are going to require him to.  I mean, this is what -- this -- when these things happen, it dominates people's attention for two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight days.  

And this is something I think he's comfortable with.  I think he has a full understanding of what he has to do.  
It's an area where I think the American people trust him a lot more than the people who have failed.  No one wants to exploit this.  But we do want to come out of this with a president who can protect us.  

BARTIROMO:  What's being done right now, do you think, in America, to protect American --


GIULIANI:  Well, I think the FBI is doing everything that they can. Remember, FBI is a small organization.  I think they're trying to leverage the local police, of which there are 800,000.  

If I were to make a recommendation to two of my former assistants, Mr. Comey and Mr. Johnson --  


GIULIANI:  -- both who are assistant U.S. attorneys, I would say, training the local police would be a number one priority.  If all police departments were trained like New York and Los Angeles and I would say, Chicago, very well-trained, if they were trained in looking for the precursors of terrorism, we would be a lot safer and we should be doing that.  

BARTIROMO:  Mayor Giuliani, great to see you.

GIULIANI:  Thank you.

BARTIROMO:  Thank you so much.  Happy Independence Day.

Up next, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee is with us.  Follow me on Twitter @mariabartiromo @sundayfutures.  

We'll be right back as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.  

More than a dozen people detained in Istanbul just miles from the site of this past week's deadly airport bombing, as authorities determine a Chechen man who trains Russian speaking members of ISIS coordinated the attack.  

Here in the U.S., the Feds ramping up securities at airports across the country, where an estimated 3 million people are traveling this holiday weekend.  

Senator Ron Johnson is with us.  He's the chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.  

Senator, good to have you on the program.  Thanks so much for joining us.  


BARTIROMO:  So, let me kick it off right there, because here we are in the middle of a holiday weekend. Lots of people traveling, and they are afraid of terrorism.  How significant a threat is terrorism on the homeland from your standpoint?  

JOHNSON:  It's a real and growing threat.  Let's face it.  You know, I'm sick of it, personally.  I really do want all my fellow citizens to really understand how many of our freedoms have already been taken away because of Islamic terrorists.  I realize people say, we're war-weary.  I don't like this reality.  I don't like the fact that Islamic terrorists declared war on the civilized world a couple decades ago, but it's a reality we have to face.

And because we have not faced it, because we have not accomplished the goal that President Obama stated for our country, 22 months ago, degrade and defeat ISIS, ISIS continues to exist.  They are continuing to train the foreign fighters, and I think that's what we probably just saw in turkey, probably had some foreign fighters trained.  Now ISIS is not only inspiring the attacks like they did in Orlando, like they did in San Bernardino, but they directed the attack, looks like in Brussels, and now looks like in Turkey, as well.  

So we are vulnerable.  And the solution to this problem, and it's a tough solution, it's not going to happen anytime soon, is we have to commit ourselves to destroying ISIS and Islamic terror wherever it resides, wherever it's taken up safe haven.  

And while we're doing that, we're going to have to harden our own defenses. I'm a big supporter of additional K-9 units in airports.  We're probably going to have to have more security presence outside the security zones in the airports.  

For this weekend, American passengers have got to be vigilant.  If you see something, you have to say something.  Don't let political correctness dissuade you from contacting authorities.  

BARTIROMO:  You make a lot of good points there, Senator.  And I think the American people are with you and they are afraid.  You look at recent polls, this is their number one issue right now.  

I want to ask you what we should expect at airports, et cetera, and how things might change, but let me stay on this issue of terrorism and the Islamic State for a moment, because a lot of debate about what we should be doing in order to stop these terrorists where they live and where they are.  In your judgment, what should be done on a federal level for the U.S. right now to actually appear stronger and that we actually are in control, in terms of this fight, to take them down?  

JOHNSON:  Well, let me start with the analogy I've been using.  You've got a beehive of killer bees in your backyard.  Now, you can go out and poke it with a stick, but all you're going to really do is stir up the hive. You're going to maybe, you know, damage the hive.  But bees are going to escape.  They're going to create other hives.  They're going to become more and more dangerous.  

And that's, in effect, what we've been doing with ISIS.  What we should be doing, you've got to take out the hive and kill all the bees.  We haven't been doing that.  

So, what President Obama should have done, what he needs to do, is assemble a committed coalition of the living, of the civilized world, and we must be tenacious.  We have to be relentless in destroying ISIS, but also taking a look at Islamic terror groups wherever they reside in the planet and destroy them.  But we haven't done that.

You know, the first President Bush really created the model.  In the first Gulf War, America supplied probably less than half a million troops.  Our coalition partners supplied almost 250,000 troops and paid for about 85 percent of the effort.  That was a committed, international coalition of the willing, civilized world. And that's what we should be doing here.

Now, I realize, it's not the easy thing to do.  If America leads too much, people sit back and they don't join the fight.  If we don't lead enough, which is exactly what's happening now, they also don't join the fight.  So, we've got to get it right, but we have to show far greater leadership and commitment to achieving the goal and I have not seen that out of this administration.  

BARTIROMO:  And we know that Donald Trump has basically been running on this whole theory.  That's part of his campaign.  What about Secretary Clinton?  Do you think that she will be tougher on ISIS than the president has been?  

JOHNSON:  I really can't evaluate either of those individuals in terms of what they're going to do.  What -- all I can do is, again, lay out the reality, President Obama laid out that goal for America 22 months ago.  

We have Brett McGurk, who is a really good person -- I mean, a great person heading this effort.  In foreign relations committee here and he said, you know, we have a three-year game plan.  We're not going to defeat ISIS under this administration in 14 months.  

So, we actually have to be serious about accomplishing that goal. Hopefully our next commander in chief, whoever that person may be, will become serious about achieving that goal.  

BARTIROMO:  You know, John Brennan, the head of the CIA, has been very blunt recently basically saying, yes, ISIS will attack the United States.  Expect it.  

What should we be doing, and knowing, if, in fact, we were to see something like that, God forbid, in the homeland.  In terms of changes to airport security, what might we expect?  

JOHNSON:  Well, let me quick comment what the CIA Director Brennan said in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee.  He said all of our efforts have not reduced ISIS' terrorism capability and global reach and they remain a potent, resilient, and largely cohesive enemy.  


JOHNSON:  That's pretty depressing after 22 months.  

So, again, what we need to do with the airports is we've got to beef up security outside the security zones.  I don't see extending that perimeter is going to do much.  You're always going to have that pinch zone.  You have to increase security.  

I know DHS is increasing training to local law enforcement and the airport officials that have responsibility for security of those zones.  We're going to have to beef it up.

And I'm a big supporter of additional K-9 units.  There is no technology that can beat the nose of a dog.  So, we've got about a thousand K-9 units right now engaged in transportation. We need to triple, quadruple, or quintuple those numbers.  

It's going to take some time, it's going to cost some money, but again, this threat is not going away anytime soon, not with President Obama at the helm.  And no matter who is, this is not a short-term goal here.  I mean, we're going to have to be dealing with Islamic terror for years and years to come, but we better start now.  

BARTIROMO:  Real quick, do you think there are ISIS fighters in America right now, waiting for a directive?  

JOHNSON:  Well, we've certainly seen people, lone wolves, that have been inspired by ISIS.  I don't have any incredible evidence of a specific threat, but, I'll tell you what, I'm highly concerned.  In my committee, we've held 18 hearings on a lack of border security, on the southern border.  

So, you know, of all the dangers we have, refugees, visa waiver programs, I am primarily concerned of ISIS operatives being able to come through our very porous southern borders. Let's start securing that.  This administration has not been serious about securing our southern borders, either.  

BARTIROMO:  You make a really important point there, Senator.  Thanks so much for joining us this morning.  

JOHNSON:  Have a good day.  

BARTIROMO:  We'll see you soon.  Senator Ron Johnson there.  

Meanwhile, after a nearly two-year investigation, the Benghazi committee finally releases its report.  So what does it reveal about the administration's response to the attacks that claimed the lives of four Americans?  We'll talk with a member of that committee as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."



HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Today reported they have found nothing, nothing to contradict the conclusions of the independent accountability board.  I'll leave it to others to characterize this report, but I think it's pretty clear, it's time to move on.  


BARTIROMO:  That was Hillary Clinton reacting to the Benghazi report, released earlier this week, saying she's ready to move on.  The report critical of the administration's response to the terrorist attacks that killed four Americans back in September of 2012.  But there are still lingering questions about exactly what happened that night in Benghazi.  

Joining me right now is Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo, a member of the House Select Committee on Benghazi.  

Sir, good to have you on the program.  Thanks so much for joining us.

REP. MIKE POMPEO, R-KANSAS:  Great to be with you, Maria.  

BARTIROMO:  What do you believe to be the most important conclusion of this report?  

POMPEO:  Well, Maria, I heard what you played from Secretary Clinton. There's still a lot of falsehoods she's putting forward, and we learned that.  We learned that at every turn, she put politics ahead of the people on the ground.  Imagine two visions.  One of what was going on in Washington, D.C. and one what was going on on the ground in Benghazi.  

While mortars were falling, Secretary Clinton and her team were debating whether to send soldiers in uniform or not in uniform.  They're talking about whether the Libyan government is going to allow us to come in.  That certainly didn't bother her when she toppled Gadhafi the first time.

And what we learned is perhaps the most disturbing fact is that at no time during the entire evening of attacks was there ever a U.S. aircraft en route to Benghazi, Libya. There's been this debate about whether we could have saved any of the lives there, of the four brave Americans who were killed.  What we now know is that they didn't even try.  


So, we know that the folks in Benghazi were asking for help.  And we know that from the e-mails.  And yet, there was no help on the way.  Why?  

POMPEO:  Yes, ma'am, it was because the administration was focused on their political legacy.  You have to remember, this was 56 days before presidential elections.  So, whether it was their failure to provide security beforehand, because to have put in more security who have admitted that secretary Clinton's Libya policy was a failure, or that night, to have had to admit there was a radical Islamic terrorist who overtook a U.S. facility.  That would have been to admitting political failure.  

And you can see, Ben Rhodes, even that night, while mortars are still falling, talking about how we want to blame this on the YouTube video and not on a failed foreign policy.  If you want to know why folks weren't sent here, is because the focus was on protecting their political legacy and not on saving lives.  

BARTIROMO:  That is just extraordinary.  Yes, this was September 2012, right before the November election.  President Obama's beginning of his second term.  

So, let me ask you about that.  Because we know it had nothing to do with any video.  But the correspondence and what you have released in this report tells us that there was a coordinated effort to say, OK, let's just push out this video narrative.  

POMPEO:  That's right, Maria, it was deeply coordinated.  You don't have to take my word for it.  You can see it in the words of the administration official themselves, in e-mails that they wrote.  

When they sent Susan Rice on to five Sunday talk shows, they didn't have her briefed by anyone who knew what was going on, on the ground.  Everyone on the ground knew this was a terror attack.  She was briefed by Ben Rhodes and David Plouffe, two political actors inside the Obama world.  She was sent out to tell a story that was deeply inconsistent with what the administration knew.  

You can see the e-mails.  Privately, Secretary Clinton tells her daughter and the Egyptians and the Libyans, this was a terror attack, while publicly she told the families of the murdered Americans that this was about a YouTube video.  I find those actions morally reprehensible.  

BARTIROMO:  It's absolutely extraordinary.  And we've heard from the families of those who were killed that night.  It's quite extraordinary for her to say, then, well, it's time to move on.  

POMPEO:  Maria, it's actually not extraordinary.  This is -- there's a long history of the Clintons involved in scandals telling the American people, nothing to see here, folks.  

I urge everyone who's watching to go read -- I wrote a separate report along with Representative Jordan, it's only 40-some pages.  Read it.  Draw your own conclusions.  

When you see the facts that are presented, it is not time to move on.  We still need to hold accountable those who are responsible for what took place on September 11th, 2012. The family members of those who are fallen and frankly all Americans deserve no less.  

BARTIROMO:  Yes, it's just an amazing situation.  And we will certainly be following.  Congressman, thank you very much for joining us this morning.  

POMPEO:  Thank you, Maria.  

BARTIROMO:  We'll see you soon.  Congressman Mark Pompeo there.  

Choosing a running mate, that's next.  Who will Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump select?  And are we any closer to finding an answer?  

Former presidential candidate Ben Carson is leading that for Donald Trump. We'll talk with him next, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ":  This is a Fox News alert.  Good morning. I'm Howard Kurtz live in Washington.  

ISIS strikes again, this time in Baghdad.  Two bombs rocking the Iraqi capital, killing at least 91 people and wounding as many as 170 others.  The deadly attack taking place outside a crowded shopping center, targeting civilians in a Shiite neighborhood.  

And in Bangladesh, officials searching for evidence in who was behind this weekend's deadly hostage crisis. The government is denying the Islamic State's claim of responsibility for the attack that left 20 hostages and two policemen dead.

And on "MediaBuzz", we'll look at the coverage of Hillary Clinton's FBI interview, the fallout of Bill Clinton's meeting with Loretta Lynch, Donald Trump versus the press, the FEC investigating Fox News, my debate with Ted Coppell.  All that and more at the top of the hour.  

Now back to Maria and "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.  

With the Republican National Convention set to begin in Cleveland in just a few weeks, many are wondering who Donald Trump will select as his running mate.  And will he make that announcement before or at the convention?  

Joining me right now is former presidential candidate himself, Dr. Ben Carson.  He is a Trump adviser.  

Dr. Carson, good to see you again.  Thanks so much for joining us.  

DR. BEN CARSON, R-FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Always good to be with you, Maria.  

BARTIROMO:  So what do you think?  I guess it was Newt Gingrich who told me this past week, he'll probably announce it before the convention.  What is the plan, in terms of unveiling who that person is, his vice presidential pick?  

CARSON:  Well, you know, right now, he's cogitating, significantly, on who would be the best fit.  He's looking for somebody who really loves America, is willing to put forth the requisite effort to try to save it, understands how serious our financial situation is, how serious the activity of the terrorists is.  

You know, you look out there right now, and, you know, you're seeing all these activities around the world. And I've got to tell you, there are cells here in the United States, also, waiting to be activated.  And we need somebody who will pursue that with the right kind of seriousness, particularly if something were to happen to the president.  You can't, you know, let that linger, languish.  

BARTIROMO:  So, I mean, is the short list basically who we've been speaking about, Newt Gingrich or Jeff Sessions, or an outsider on the list?  Or are we really talking about somebody with government experience?  

CARSON:  Well, that would not be the only criteria.  Clearly, you want somebody who has the requisite experience, but just as important is somebody who has the ability to hear information and discern, make wise decisions, because you'll be given lots of options.  There's no one that exists who's an expert of everything.  But you do have such a thing as wisdom, which will allow you to listen carefully to different options, ask the right questions and help make correct decisions.  

BARTIROMO:  I assume they'll want to be celebratory at the convention, so we'll know when we're at the convention who it is.  Should we assume he'll release that before the convention?  

CARSON:  I think that probably is the not a good assumption.  

BARTIROMO:  It's not a good assumption?  

CARSON:  I don't think it's a good thing to assume that.  He could.  But right now, you know, he's really going through this process and being very deliberate about it.  And will take as much time as is necessary to make a gad choice.  

BARTIROMO:  Dr. Carson, let me ask you a bit about policy.  You're such an important adviser to Donald Trump.  A lot of discussion about that trade speech that he gave last week. Really, he promised to tear up so many trade deals from NAFTA to Trans Pacific Partnership to a deal with China, a deal with South Korea.  A lot of people felt that, you know what, we don't need all new trade deals at once.  Maybe it's too disruptive.  

The Chamber of Commerce tweeted out, "Under Trump's trade plans, we would see higher prices, fewer jobs, and a weaker economy."

What's your take on trade.  And is this a situation where perhaps we could go too far and create a negative implication for the economy?  

CARSON:  Well, you know, it's not going to be a blitzkrieg.  We're going to do everything at one time. You're going to look at these things sequentially, the most important things first.  And there'll be a lot of good advice and decisions that will be made on principles -- principles of fairness to our people as well as the people with whom we're dealing.  That's going to be the key.  

BARTIROMO:  That is the key, and it certainly does impact the economy. Also important to voters is the Trump's tax plan.  I know during the primary season, you had a great tax plan.  A lot of people talked it up and liked what you were envisioning.  

Give us your sense of Trump's economic plan to really move jobs and actually create more jobs.  Is it the tax reform package or something else?  

CARSON:  Well, not only is it the tax reform package, that will lower taxes for everybody, and some people say, you can about lower taxes when we have these kinds of deficits.  

They don't understand the economy.  They don't understand cycles.  They don't understand incentives.  

You know, you can't suppress the economic engine and expect it to generate money.  So, clearly, we have to get rid of some of all the regulations.  He understands that, and we have to have something that incentivizes people to work hard and to take risk.  Entrepreneurial risk taking is essential and was a big part during our rapid rise in the world.  

BARTIROMO:  Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

Dr. Carson, great to have you on the program this morning.  Thanks so much.

CARSON:  Thank you, Maria.  

BARTIROMO:  We'll see you soon, sir.  Dr. Ben Carson there.  

Up next, the latest Fox polls on the race for the White House.  Plus, what about the independents?  Which candidate do they prefer right now?

Our panel is on deck next as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton ramping up their attacks against one another, as we close in on four months to the general election.  A new Fox News poll shows that the former secretary of state has a 44 to 38 percentage lead over Mr. Trump, with Clinton gaining two points from the most recent poll last month.  

I want to bring in our panel, talking about these polls right now.  Ed Rollins is former principle adviser to President Reagan, the chief strategist of the Great America PAC for Donald Trump, and he is a Fox News political analyst.  Stephen Sigmund with us this morning, the senior vice president of Global Strategy Group.  And Senator Al D'Amato, former senator of New York and a Fox News contributor.  

Good to see you, everybody.  Thanks so much for joining us.  


BARTIROMO:  This poll, and there have been polls recently, continue to show Hillary higher, winning in a head-to-head.  Your thoughts on that?  

ROLLINS:  The difference is the most obvious poll was The Washington Post poll.  It had a 12-point
difference between Democrats and Republicans, which is not where it is. It's four to five points.  

So, what goes into the makeup is very, very important.  The Fox poll does it a very accurate way.  They say, how would you vote, the way they identify Republicans and Democrats, who would you vote in a Republican, who would you vote in a district for Congress?  And so, it's about a four to five-point differential.  That makes a big difference because 90 percent of the people come down to whatever party they're for.  So, I always found it to be a very accurate poll.  

One thing that's concerning to me is that 89 percent of the people in the poll describe Trump as a hothead. And 83 percent say he's an obnoxious personality.  At the end of the day, they've got to like him if they're going to vote for him.  And I think it's a very close race and I think he's got to somehow soften that image a little bit, and that's about rhetoric.

BARTIROMO:  Yes.  The question is, can he do it?  

STEPHEN SIGMUND, SR VP, GLOBAL STRATEGY GROUP:  Yes.  Look, I think the most interesting thing about all the polls over the last couple of weeks have shown this basic difference between Clinton and Trump, somewhere between five and eight points or so.  And it's early, so that can still turn around.  

The problem that he has as Ed alluded to and, I think, the Fox pollster said, is that he has to change this perception that he's unfit, temperamentally unfit and intellectually unprepared to be president.  But every time he goes out and sort of speaks off the cuff, he reinforces that perception as opposed to changing that perception, right?  

So, look, he certainly has lots of opportunities to be more than teleprompter, presidential candidate that he has tried to be a few times, but it just seems that that's not really in his makeup or his character as a candidate.  

BARTIROMO:  A lot of people feel like it's early, but we'll see.  Do you believe the polls, Senator?  


BARTIROMO:  You don't?  

D'AMATO:  And I'll tell you why.  And I think he touched on it.  

Number one, it's national.  And I think nationally, Hillary will carry the majority of the voters.  But you've got to look at the Electoral College and the battleground states.  

When you look at the battleground states, it's much closer, anywhere from two to four points.  You have to look at Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Colorado.  And so, when you look at these states that Trump must win, by the way, and he has to win those battleground states.  It is much closer.  

Number two, there's a lot of water that has to go under the dam.  And number three, I agree with both my colleagues here, that he has to stay on message.  He gets wowed by the euphoria that he brings about in front of these crowds.  And if you've ever gone to one of these events, he's a great entertainer.  

Well, the 25,000 people or the 10,000 people here, they're loving and they're cheering, and then comes the remark, the one that the media picks up, and millions of people here, as opposed to the 10,000 people who are cheering him on.  He has to be more disciplined.  

Now, he's got some messages, if he's good on message.  If he talked about how Hillary made it possible for the Russians to take control of one of our huge uranium producers and allow them to own the company, export the uranium, and who do they sell the uranium to?  Iran.  Now, people knew that.  And that the foundation as a result of this got $135 million.  

I think people would start saying, what?  And that is something he has to keep on.  And educate them.  

So, these extemporaneous feelings, he's thrashing out at somebody because they've attacked him, whether it's the governor of the state who's in the same party, or whether it's a judge who comes from a particular dissent, he's got to be more controlled.  And if he is, at least disciplined and gets on message, he can win.  

ROLLINS:  One added point.  She is viewed as a very dishonest person.  And there's a 30-year history of that.  And there's nothing ahead that's going to make people change that image of her.  So, that's a very --

SIGMUND:  Here's (INAUDIBLE) the weigh in on that.  I mean, even when she was supposed to do badly in May, she was ahead in the battleground states.  There's really been no time, and Senator D'Amato is right, that it's close, but there's really been no time she's been behind in the battleground states and the demographics of those states and the map of those states that are very, very tough for him.  

But I think the biggest thing you're finding is that the general election is not the primary election, right? The general election is different than the primary election.  Jeb Bush was half right.  You can't insult your way to the presidency.  

He seemed to be able to insult his way to the nomination, but he's finding you can't insult your way to the presidency.  

BARTIROMO:  But do you think she can withstand all this stuff about the foundation, as the senator just brought up.  I mean, the uranium deal with the Russians and all that money that went to the foundation. And, of course, last week the story that Bill Clinton has a private meeting with Loretta Lynch?

SIGMUND:  Yes, look, one, I think --  

BARTIROMO:  During an active investigation?  Wow!  

SIGMUND:  It's unbelievable to me that they keep putting their foot in their mouths or whatever the analogy is for making those kind of mistakes.  But I think she can withstand it, because a lot of her negatives are baked in.  And even with her having rightly Ed saying very high dishonest and negative numbers, Donald Trump's negatives are 15 points higher than that, right?  


A quick break.  We want to talk about two key figures in the Democratic Party looking to boost Hillary Clinton's profile in the race for president.  The impact of Elizabeth Warren as Clinton prepares to hit the trail with the commander-in-chief, President Obama.  We're looking ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures", next.  


BARTIROMO:  Presumptive Democratic nominee for president, Hillary Clinton, campaigning with one of her potential running mates while she's preparing to hit the trail with her former boss, the commander-in- chief.  The former secretary of state campaigning with Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren in Ohio this past week, and later this week, Mrs. Clinton will speak to supporters in Charlotte alongside President Obama.  First time he's campaigning with Secretary Clinton this season.  

We're back with our panel now.  What do you think?  First off, Elizabeth Warren, is that the ticket, Steve?  

SIGMUND:  No, I don't think so.  He's a good and effective surrogate but I think, one, Secretary Clinton is too cautious for that, and two, I think she'll want to balance the ticket more with, you know, one of somebody like Sherrod Brown, or Tim Kaine, or -- you know, I'm for Cory Booker because I'm a Jersey guy and gives an interesting energy to it, but I don't think ultimately that will be the ticket.  

D'AMATO:  I would say Elizabeth Warren could be a good choice for her. It's women like the idea of a woman being of that and I think they would like it even more.  

BARTIROMO:  Two women team.  

D'AMATO:  That's right.  They will poll right to the end and if this race looks like Warren can make the difference, it's going to be Warren.  I agree with my colleague as it relates to Brown, that helps them in Ohio and if they see Ohio, that Brown can really help them so they are going to be polling and this is at the end when they come down to the convention time and they will be looking at Ohio.  They will be looking at Warren, what she does, Hillary will do what she thinks will bring her the election.  

BARTIROMO:  Yes, she's going to do anything.  

ROLLINS:  I think it would be a disaster.  I think standards pulled her pretty far to the left putting her on the ticket and continue to pull them to the left.  That's not the way you win elections in America.  I think that she basically doesn't want to have someone sitting across the hall that wants her job, which obviously Warren does and Warren does not bring a state you wouldn't want automatically in Massachusetts.  So, I don't think it would be a good idea.  

I think that Brown or someone else that can give her a state or help in the state.  Remember the key for us is we have to win Ohio, we have to win Florida or we're out of the game.  

BARTIROMO:  Does President Obama help her when he campaigns this week?  

ROLLINS:  Sure he helps her.  He has a great deal of affection among African-Americans in particularly and going into North Carolina is a state with still a prominent African- American support.  The state went back and forth he won the first time, lost the second time with 7,000 votes.  So, I think from her perspective, it would be a great addition.  

BARTIROMO:  What do you guys think?  

D'AMATO:  Excuse me, absolutely.  


D'AMATO:  North Carolina helps big-time with the president going there. He's very good ratings there. That's why they picked North Carolina.  

BARTIROMO:  Right.  

D'AMATO:  He's doing pretty well in the polls.  So he's going to be a big boost and Republicans have to win North Carolina.  That's one of the battle ground states.  

BARTIROMO:  That's a good point there.  But you know what?  A lot of people wondering if she's tough enough on terrorism, Steve.  Does she need to be tougher on terrorism?  And if she is tougher on terrorism, is that basically saying in so many words, President Obama is not?  

SIGMUND:  So I think she does need to be tough on terrorism.  I don't know about tougher.  I mean, she's already separated with him on the no fly zone issue, right?  And I think she can afford to.  One, he wants her to be president and two she has a lot of capital built up with him.  And three, he's going to be supportive of her.  

And I do think he helps her quite a bit, particularly right now.  I mean, he's not just popular among African- Americans in North Carolina.  Right now, he's the most popular national politician including Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and the congressional Republicans would have to quadruple their approval rating to be looking out that end.  So, for the time being, he helps across the board.  

BARTIROMO:  Certainly his approval rating has moved up.  You're right.  

Still to come, the one thing to watch for the week ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures" from our panel.  


BARTIROMO:  Back with our panel looking at the big things to watch in the weeks ahead.  

ROLLINS:  The quarterly final closes this week on fundraising and I think to a certain extent, stories will start getting leaked this week whether Trump turned around the money machine and whether he's going to really put the money together he needs.  

BARTIROMO:  We've got to see him compete.  Hillary has a lot of ads, negative ads against Trump right now.  

ROLLINS:  He's going to pooh-poohed the need for money, but I think who's been in politics understand you're going to need money.  

BARTIROMO:  Steve, what are you watching?  

SIGMUND:  I'm watching whether he continues to do teleprompter speech and doesn't sort of spout out insults and whether they are effective, because for him, they're a little hard.  He doesn't get the media attention than he used to when he does those.

BARTIROMO:  Senator?  

D'AMATO:  I think you're going to see more countries in Europe beginning to move and follow England. Now that the markets are beginning to come back somewhat, the unrest in many of the European capitals is far greater than the politicals want to realize.

And also --  


D'AMATO:  The ISIS attack in Turkey, Turkey is now going to really turn on them.  They have made a big mistake.  It's going to help us in the war against ISIS.  

BARTIROMO:  All right.  We'll leave it there.  

Real quick, what are you hearing in terms of vice presidential picks, Ed Rollins?  

ROLLINS:  I'm hearing Christie is moving to the front.  

BARTIROMO:  Chris Christie is moving to the front.  Wonder if that's -- we know he wants a big job, but --  

ROLLINS:  It's a big job.  The bombastic twins.  

D'AMATO:  Big political mistake if he takes Christie on as vice president.  

BARTIROMO:  Big political mistake?  

D'AMATO:  Absolutely.

SIGMUND:  You can go from 85 saying obnoxious to 95 saying obnoxious for the whole ticket.  

BARTIROMO:  Great to see you, guys.  Thank you so much.  Good to see you. Have a wonderful Independence Day holiday, gentlemen.  

That will do it for us on "Sunday Morning Futures."  Thanks for being with us.  

I'm Maria Bartiromo.  I'll see you on Wednesday on "Mornings with Maria", 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. Eastern on the Fox Business Network.

"MediaBuzz" with Howard Kurtz is next.  

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