Trump under fire for questioning fairness of federal judge
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee calls on 'Mexican' judge in Trump University lawsuit to recuse himself
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 6, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jedediah Bila and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Donald Trump is under fire once again for speaking his mind this time for expressing concerns about the ancestry of a federal judge presiding over Trump University lawsuit. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I've been treated very unfairly before him. We had another judge. If that judge was still there, this case would have been over two years ago. Let me just tell you, I have had horrible rulings, I've been treated very unfairly by this judge. Now, this judge is of Mexican heritage. I'm building a wall, OK? I'm building a wall. I'm going to do very well with the Hispanics, the Mexicans --
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: So no Mexican judge could ever be involved in a case that involves you?
TRUMP: Well, now he's a member of the society where, you know, for pro- Mexico and that's fine. It's all fine, but I think --
TAPPER: Except that you're calling into question his heritage.
TRUMP: I think he should recuse himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: The U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel was born in Indiana to Mexican parents. Now Trump is taking a lot of heat from the left, but even some of his supporters like Newt Gingrich thinks he shouldn't singling out the judge ethnicity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is one of the worst mistakes Trump has made. I mean, I think it's inexcusable. He has every right to criticize a judge and he has every right to say certain decisions are right, and his attorneys can file to move the venue from the judge. But first of all, this judge was born in Indiana. He is an American, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Now this morning on Fox News, Trump said he was surprised by Gingrich's take, calling this comments inappropriate. The presumptive GOP nominee defends his position on the "O'Reilly Factor" tonight, and we have a preview clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O'REILLY, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR" HOST: But do you regret making it personal with the judge?
TRUMP: Look, I have had very, very unfair decisions. People said, this should have gone away a long time ago and some were judgment. I don't care if the judge is Mexican or not. I'm gonna do great with the Mexican people because I provide jobs. So I don't care about Mexican, but we are being treated very unfairly, Bill, very, very unfairly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right, we're bringing around our legal expert here. Now, now, Kimberly, he -- Donald Trump has a right to say he feels he's being treated unfairly by this judge .
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Correct.
BOLLING: . and could push back against the judge, but the issue being he called out his ethnicity, and that's the problem. On that clip you hear tonight, you are going to hear tonight on O'Reilly, he (inaudible) of touch a little bit.
GUILFOYLE: He (inaudible) of touch. He said he didn't care regardless, you know, about the ethnicity of the judge, but he does care about being treated unfairly and that's where it should have began and ended to begin with. Meaning, he should just have said that if that's how he felt. And I also just think like, don't waste even a moment of opportunity to be attacking Hillary Clinton, the e-mail server situation, the Clinton Foundation, the investigations that are ongoing like what Bernie Sanders is doing, really focusing and honing in on that. That's what he should be using his valuable airtime for. So I think, at this point, you move off of this, let your lawyers handle it. Let them file a motion, you know, to recuse the judge if you feel that there is, you know, some kind of substance of evidence to suggest that there, you know, he's being treated unfairly or the judge would be bias of prejudice against him. There are motions for that.
BOLLING: So Juan, all throughout the weekend, the talk shows were all over Donald Trump about this comment, but it's not, really not about Trump University. I mean, do you think they -- the left cares about Trump University, or did they care that Donald Trump mentioned Mexico or something Mexican, and then they blow it up and see if they can make out of it.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I don't think it's the left that's really hammering Donald Trump on this effectively. Right now, it's the fact that you have Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Newt Gingrich, as you just saw, saying this is identity politics. This is not the way republican conservatives play ball. We don't go and say to people, oh, Clarence Thomas can't make a decision because he's black guy or Chief Justice Robert shouldn't be ruling on an abortion case because he's a Catholic. That's identity politics. And I think what you heard from Kimberly, as an officer of the court is, that's not the way, we, as Americans play ball. Like this is a very disturbing kind of attack. I mean we suggest that we, as Americans can't treat each other fairly without regard to race or ethnicity.
BOLLING: So Jedediah, let me just throw this out here. Now this judge born in Indiana to Mexican parents, he was part -- by the way, fought the Mexican drug cartels, just a tough guy; a great judge. But was part of its society, a legal society called San Diego La Raza Law Society. Is it possible that Trump misconstrued that La Raza part, being part of that big .
JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah.
BOLLING: . race group on the west coast that is so anti-American?
BILA: Yeah, I think he did confuse it. And the problem is that now I'm getting tweets. Everyone is getting tweets that, oh, this guy is a part of the national council of La Raza, which is a completely different thing. So that's another issue with Trump, through. You can't throw stuff like that out there unless you, unless you have some sort of proof, because it's misleading to the public. I don't like the implication here. And the implication to me was, that if you have parents or family members that are of Mexican heritage, that's somehow you don't support border security, that's somehow you don't support the law. And that's what I think he was trying to say in somewhere were that this guy would somehow be opposed to border security because of his ethnicity. I think, Juan, honestly, you hit the nail on the head, because conservatives have been fighting against any politics for a long time. This is what the left does. They isolate people based on your gender, based on, you know, let's cater to women. Let's cater to this group of people, and conservatives are always saying, "No, we are all people, and regardless of your ethnicity, if you care about freedom, then you care that we can all come together and support that." So I have a real problem with he said here. I don't think that you can defend it. And I think if he, if he were under the impression of this with La Raza and would somehow biased, he should have done his research. You are running for president. You are leading in the polls. You have a great opportunity to set an example for everyone, and this is not doing that.
BOLLING: Tom?
TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: I agree. But you, you're right Jedediah. This is what democrats do. You know, I think it's politically dumb for Trump to fight this fight. I think it's politically dumb for him to talk about Trump University at all, because, you know, it's a non-issue for most Americans. They don't care about his personal, you know, problems with the law. We care about America. So he has to get back to make America great again, but identity politics is what the democrats do. I mean, you can see fund- raisers from the DNC, and they talked about Hispanic-American have to unite against Trump. They are saying that people should vote a certain way or think a certain way, because of their ethnicity. So Trumps doing nothing different than the DNC does every day.
BILA: But he should be above that, as the argument. You can't be --
SHILLUE: I agree.
BILA: As a conservative, you can't say this is the problem with by our political system works of you, because you stoop to that low level. I'm gonna come in and stoop to that level. So he should be above it. He should be --
SHILLUE: But the press is -- they're huffing and puffing. Is it --
(CROSSTALK)
SHILLUE: Look, this is proof that Trump is a racist. It just proof that Trump is playing identity politics, which happens all the time.
BOLLING: Or KG -- is he playing identity politics or is he defending against the, the identity politics? I mean, the left is -- all right, fair enough. Left and certain parts of the right are going after Donald Trump for the comment. But I don't know, you saw that clip right there. It seems like he said, I don't care if he's Mexican or not.
GUILFOYLE: Right. Well --
BOLLING: I want a fair trial.
GUILFOYLE: You know what it sounds like? It sounds like he took a good opportunity to reach a huge audience and he went on, you know, to do an interview to with O'Reilly, that will air tonight, and I think we haven't seen the whole clip, the whole interview, so let's see. But it sounds like he is on the right track, because when you have people even like Newt Gingrich who, you know, I interview when I was in Greta on Friday, he was very upset about it, and he saw that clip earlier. There are a lot of people on the right that are supporters of Trump that just feel like, whoa, and my whole point is listen, he's really good at going on the attack. Focus on Hillary Clinton, like, eyes on the target.
BOLLING: All right, Juan, hang in here. I want to -- you just hear this clip here. Not everyone thinks Trump was wrong to question whether he's being treated fairly. Here's former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's perfectly legitimate to ask the question. And I think the judge, as every judge should do before every case to consider all the facts, to consider the publicity about the case was being said publicly about the case, and make a decision. Again, it's not just about being impartial. It's about the appearance of impartiality and priority. That's the standard that the judge must satisfy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right now, Gonzales clarified, he said he is not supporting Trump's comments, but he has the right to a fair trial and impartial judge right.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BOLLING: That's kind of what Trump was saying, right?
GUILFOYLE: At the law.
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think that's what Trump was saying, because if there was any evidence of impartiality, as Kimberly was saying earlier, his lawyers could bring some action to say this judge --
GUILFOYLE: A motion to recuse.
WILLIAMS: Right. The motion to recuse to say this judge has acted improperly or with bias. That's not the case. He said, "I'm building a wall and this guy has Mexican heritage." That's the basis his argument against the judge.
BOLLING: Let's talk a little politics. Bring it around the table. Does this affect long term? Does this affect Donald Trump's popularity, his polling, his fight against Hillary?
SHILLUE: No, because nothing does. But he should get off the Trump University stuff as soon as possible, because that's going to hurt him, because it's just not an issue that we care about. We don't care about Trump University.
BOLLING: Agree?
BILA: I think it does affect him. He -- I mean, does this guy want to win? If he wants to win, he needs Hispanics, he needs women. He needs to watch what he says. He's now in the lead, but you make comments like this, you're giving Hillary Clinton, her campaign material. You are giving her video right now. Why would you do that when she's so ineffective and you have so much to rail against? This is a waste of everyone's time and it hurts them.
BOLLING: Juanito?
WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think it hurts him with independence, but it hurts him with like, republicans. I mean, I think there are a lot of republicans who are trying to unify, trying to get behind him and who are like, wait a second, why is he doing this? You know, this is a different state. This is a moment when you should be bringing a party together, enlarging his reputation as a reasonable person rather than maybe the rash guy who needed to stand out among 17 contenders for the GOP nomination. Instead, he's spending time in blue states that the republican leadership doesn't think he has a chance to win, so they don't understand the strategy. And then he's saying these things that really drive away Latino voters, but also drive away, you know, what Jedediah was saying, independents and women that he need so critically. So when he was asked by Tapper by the way, Tapper said to him, "You're saying this man can't do his job because of his race. Isn't that the definition of racism?" Well, Trump says, "No, not quite." But that's what he's saying. The man can't do his job because of his race.
BOLLING: KG?
GUILFOYLE: Well, he has the ability and right to be able to question bias and prejudice, to say. And he does, the law is you have the right to a fair trial and by an impartial judge and jury of your peers if it goes to a trial type of situation, right? So that's the standard in this country. But again, I think at this point, like, move on. Let's not speak of it again, meaning that's what his campaign and he should be doing. Just leave it alone, like put up total, you know, wipe out .
BOLLING: Yeah, yeah.
GUILFOYLE: . blank slate on Trump University.
BOLLING: And I'm going to agree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I'm gonna second that thought. And -- I'm sure Donald Trump right now is going, OK, let's get through this. We'll work this out and we just get back on to the things that matter; jobs, the economy, because at the end of the day, that's what will actually get the Latino vote as the strong economy. All right, we'll leave it right there. Hillary Clinton was asked a simple question over the weekend. Does she believe Americans have the constitutional right to bear arms? Now, we know the answer, but please stay tuned for her answer. So prepare yourself. That's next on "The Five."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: For the good one. Donald Trump has been issuing the warnings, if Hillary Clinton is president; she's coming after your guns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are going to save our Second Amendment; Hillary Clinton wants to abolish it, believe me. She wants to abolish our Second Amendment. We are going to save our Second Amendment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Well, is he right? It might not be a stretch, because Clinton can't even pull herself to admit that the right to bear arms is in the constitution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Do you believe that an individual's right to bear arms is a constitutional right that it's not linked to service in a militia?
HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For most of our history, there was a nuanced reading of the Second Amendment until the decision by the late Justice Scalia, and there was no argument until then that localities and states and the federal government had a right, as we do with every amendment, to impose reasonable regulations. So I believe we can have common-sense gun safety measures consistent with the Second Amendment.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's not what I asked, I said, do you believe that their conclusion that an individual's right to bear arms is a constitutional right?
CLINTON: If it is a constitutional right, then it, like every other constitutional right is subject to reasonable regulations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. So listen, the big (ph) campaign, they're one of them, from Donald Trump, and of course, in getting that the early, important NRA endorsement is, Hillary Clinton wants your guns. A gun grab is coming to America if she's the next president of the United States. Strong message, what do you think?
BOLLING: So you don't want to keep in my pocket, right?
GUILFOYLE: I do.
BOLLING: Pocket constitution. Now this is not -- first of all, let me just said, it's been hard on George Stephanopoulos in the past, because he used to work for Clintons. He was a communications director for the Clintons, and I said, maybe he should be in the seat asking the questions. Give him credit. That was a good follow up questions, because he stayed with it, didn't let her get away with the first answer. He said, "But you didn't answer my question. Is the right to bear arms, Second Amendment, is it protected in the constitution?" She dodged the question. So, as the question is or should be. He asked her specifically, she couldn't answer. It is 27 words. The Second Amendment to the constitution is 27 words, a hundred and forty-four characters, which means, it's almost the length of a tweet. It says, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It's not hard. It's very specific. It is a right. It's a constitutionally protected right. If you want to be president, Hillary, and change the constitution, knock yourself and out try, but at least admit, it's a protected right, the way the question was asked.
GUILFOYLE: So this is the type of thing, Jedediah, that this we should focusing on. On issues like this, you can really motivate and pull people out enthusiasm in the party to get people to come out to the polls.
BILA: That's true. And she's not dumb. We can all acknowledge she's not an idiot. She's just a coward. She's afraid to say that, because if she comes out and says, yes, absolutely it's a constitutional right. And the left- wing base, many of which by the way, are voting for Bernie Sanders and can't stand her and will going to say, oh, what is she talking about? She's going to be a gun girl. She's gonna go after and protect the gun. This was a really good example of what Hillary Clinton is, though. She's a coward and she also -- she comes off like she stands for nothing all the time. I've heard so contradictory statements. She is in the moment what she thinks you want her to be in the moment. You're absolutely right, though. Republican should feast on statements like this and say look, this is who you want to vote for? Somebody who can't, clearly, as Eric just did articulate. This is an easy question Hillary, the answer is yes. Move on.
SHILLUE: Exactly. You know what I keep in my pocket?
(CROSSTALK)
SHILLUE: Dental floss.
(LAUGHTER)
SHILLUE: But I also believe in --
GUILFOYLE: Good you have it around.
(LAUGHTER)
SHILLUE: I also believe in the Second Amendment. Look, I looked up the CNN's for infringe. She'll not be restricted. She'll not be limited. She'll not be weakened. She'll not be diminished. It's very simple, I mean, people always said, well, there's a lot of nuance to this. It really isn't.
BILA: There isn't.
GUILFOYLE: So if only she had a good thesaurus, maybe she's make a chance on.
WILLIAMS: I think you heard a lot of nuance to it and that's why it wasn't until Justice Scalia ruled in Heller case, that you didn't have the Supreme Court of her individual rights to own a weapon. But let's get back] to what Jedediah was saying. I think you are exactly right. She's playing games, because she didn't want to say explicitly, yes, people have a right to own a gun. But what she had said all along is this is about the right of states and localities to have background checks, waiting periods, on-line, closing the gun show loophole on-line. So she wants to protect that and emphasize that as her political message. I don't think that's an act of coward is. I think that's political smart.
BOLLING: That's not what she asked, though.
WILLIAMS: But I, I agree with you. She was asked specifically about affirming the right of the Second -- by the way, I say --
BOLLING: Twice.
WILLIAMS: It's very nuance .
BOLLING: That's right.
WILLIAMS: . because as you read in the constitution, it's about a militia. We're not talking about militia; we are talking about individual rights to own a gun.
BOLLING: There's a comma after the militia part.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I give up.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: It's still Scalia and by the Supreme Court I've ruled on your side, so fine. That's the rule -- that's the law.
BOLLING: But you admit that she answered a different question twice --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: She didn't answer directly. That's what I'm saying --
BILA: Yes.
SHILLUE: I would think, it was pretty bad that she -- he said, "Is it a right?" And she said, "If it is a right."
WILLIAMS: Right.
SHILLUE: When you start your answer that way --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Because she disagrees.
GUILFOYLE: And --
WILLIAMS: And many people disagree, but I just want to make one last point here.
GUILFOYLE: Please.
WILLIAMS: Donald Trump is the one who has historically said, "Let's have a ban on assault weapons. Let's have one on our way." Not Hillary Clinton.
GUILFOYLE: Well, and Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama had suggested that Australia's confiscation of guns, this is to be of national buyback, taking people's gun is a good example. It doesn't tell you exactly what's on the horizon, what's the intention there? I mean, it's very obvious there.
BOLLING: She wants it both ways, though. She wants to --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Talk to her base; you pointed it out.
BILA: Yeah.
BOLLING: She want to talk to her base and say look, I can't --
BILA: Yeah.
BOLLING: I can't condone gun ownership.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BOLLING: She can't do that. But she also wants to -- in order for her to win, she have to win the independent vote, right? She has to. Independents are -- I would say fall, much more in favor of the Second Amendment than against the Second Amendment.
WILLIAMS: Well, she, she is --
BOLLING: But she can't go head-to-head and do that, and go all out --
BILA: Yeah.
BOLLING: I'm against guns, because she will lose the independent vote.
WILLIAMS: Well, first of all, this is exactly what we said about Obama. He's going to come get your guns. He's going to come get your votes. It's drove up gun purchases and purchase of .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
WILLIAMS: . ammunition in the country. So this is something now that Trump and the republican's leadership want to play on to generate more turnouts .
BOLLING: So why would they say yes?
WILLIAMS: That's why the NRA --
BOLLING: Yes.
BILA: She could have said --
WILLIAMS: Because she doesn't --
BOLLING: You know what is the right.
WILLIAMS: You know what? I just told you. Supreme Court has ruled in your favor. Doesn't mean that everybody has to agree, in fact, lots of people think this was about a militia. That's what --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: But the problem is she is running for president has the opportunity to try and change --
WILLIAMS: Nobody is changing.
BOLLING: And in fact, just amend --
WILLIAMS: Has Obama changing?
GUILFOYLE: The 27 words.
WILLIAMS: They think Obama is even more anti-gun than her.
GUILFOYLE: Right. But she wants to confiscate and she said like semi- automatic rifles, AR-15, any rifle that's capable .
WILLIAMS: But that's exactly, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: . of firing more than five rounds.
WILLIAMS: If Obama hasn't done anything, and the same thing was said about Obama.
GUILFOYLE: Because he can't get it done.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Has he tried? Has he tried?
GUILFOYLE: Oh. It ain't happening. All right, ahead. Hillary is closing in on the magic number she needs to clinch the nomination. Is tomorrow the end of the road for Bernie Sanders? Will he fight on if he loses California? And should he fight on -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BILA: It's Hillary Clinton 24 hours away from clinching the nomination. Six more states vote tomorrow. The secretary picked up more delegates over the weekend with wins in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. According to the AP she's now 26 delegates tie of the numbers she need to become the presumptive democratic nominee. She was asked today, "Should Sanders concede?"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: We'll wait and find out. Actually, tomorrow is eight years to the day after I withdrew and endorsed then Senator Obama. I believed it was the right thing to do, no matter what differences we had in our long campaign. They pale in comparison with the differences we have with the republicans, and that is actually even more true today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: Well, Sanders, he's not backing down. He's going after Clinton, harder than ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do I have a problem when a sitting secretary of state and foundation run by her husband collects many millions of dollars from foreign governments, governments which are dictatorships.
TAPPER: Yeah.
SANDERS: Then why republicans --
TAPPER: Do you think it creates the appearance of conflict of interest?
SANDERS: I do. I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: Juan, I want to go to you first. How do you feel about Sanders staying in at this point? Because he is going after Clinton hard, pretty hard, bringing up, you know, the global initiative, bringing up these donations to places where dictators are where gay rights and women's rights are not a priority. Is he helping out Donald Trump now?
WILLIAMS: I think he is. And I think that's why you're saying now, President Obama says, he expects to soon make an endorsement in this. I think he wants it over. I think you are seeing the democratic leadership from Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader, now Senate minority leader on down the line. I mean, everybody is seems to be saying, hey, Bernie Sanders slow down, you haven't won. Even If you take away the super delegates, Hillary Clinton still has the lead. And after this weekend with the winds in the Virgin Islands in Puerto Rico, as you pointed out, she's less than 30. I think some people will say its 23, some say 26, but she's less than 30 delegates away. So no matter what happens tomorrow in California, you have -- and this is what Bernie is really worried about that after New Jersey, you get Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly, and a like saying, Hillary Clinton just won tonight. She won the democratic nomination. She made American history, first woman. And no matter what happens in California, including the possibility of a Bernie Sanders win, that he will be eclipsed. That it won't be his moment. Bernie is burning.
GUILFOYLE: Yup.
WILLIAMS: He's still on fire. He wants that political revolution. But you know what he is coming across as a little bit of a cry baby, sore loser at this point, and he's hurting her.
GUILFOYLE: True.
BILA: Well, I'm curious to where --
(CROSSTALK)
BILA: Where those voters go?
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
BOLLING: Apostrophe.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Apostrophe. Mean.
BILA: Where do they go? Where do the voters go, though? Because I -- when I talk to Bernie Sanders supporters, the bulk of them say, "I will not vote for her. I cannot stand her." Do they ultimately decide? You know what, she's a lesser or two evil -- they just stay home.
BOLLING: It's a big, there's a big opportunity for Trump to pick a lot of that support. They're just is. He talked to a lot of people who are anti- Hillary, they just, that (inaudible)? Where are they going to go?
BILA: Right.
BOLLING: They're going to stay home which won't help her or they'll probably, even some of them, portion of it will go, go vote Trump. I was watching Bernie Sanders today. You are right. It's over. It's done. It may get to the point where she has a big night tomorrow night. She won't even need the super delegates. She'll have enough committed delegates to lock down the nomination. It's over. But watching Bernie today, he's a really nice guy. He's a likable guy. He's an honest guy. He said look, we are going to get beat up badly in New Jersey, I know that, and we'll lose California unless there's a huge turnout. But I'm thinking, and I'm watching him thinking, why didn't early on, the Sanders campaign, why didn't he say, "I'm going to -- I'm going to push back on the democrat socialist stuff. I'm a Democrat. I'm done with the socialism. It didn't work; I need to pivot." He might have had this thing locked up.
BILA: Yes.
BOLLING: He's the much more likable of the two. And I'll tell you what...
BILA: Wow.
BOLLING: ... he lines up much more aggressively...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: ... against Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton. I think Trump owns a general election against Hillary and would have had a tough time against Sanders.
BILA: You know, Kimberly, he's -- one thing he has served, I think he has exposed a lot of Hillary's weaknesses. And I want to show you an ad. There is a pro-Trump super PAC ad that's also exposing a lot of her weaknesses. And it's tying Hillary's weaknesses in the e-mail scandal to her husband, Bill Clinton's indiscretions. I want to get your take on it. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to say one thing...
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We turned over everything.
B. CLINTON: I want you to listen to me.
H. CLINTON: I did not...
B. CLINTON: I did not...
H. CLINTON: I did not send classified material.
B. CLINTON: Not a single time.
H. CLINTON: And I did not receive...
B. CLINTON: Never.
H. CLINTON: ... any material that was marked or designated classified.
B. CLINTON: I never told anybody to lie.
H. CLINTON: That's all I can say.
B. CLINTON: These allegations are false.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
H. CLINTON: I don't know how it works digitally at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BILA: Funny. It's funny, but is it effective? What do you think?
GUILFOYLE: Funny, isn't it? Memories.
Yes, I think it is effective. But that's the type of thing you want to see, the focus on that. Because there's so much material to work with against Hillary Clinton and the Clintons in general and the Clinton kind of corrupt machine. Right? And that's what you need to really hammer on to get people to say, "You know what? Maybe I've said or done a few things, but look at her. She does have a record that you can look at and you can pick apart to say that she lacks the competency to be able to be commander and she" -- well, which is what Bernie Sanders has said. Right? He questioned that about her and her ability to do the job and whether or not she would be a good choice. That's why he's still staying in it to run.
I also think, just to tag back on the other subject, that Bernie should stay in. Give them some trouble. But the Dems, I know, they want him out. Because guess what? If Hillary Clinton ends up in indictment trouble, et cetera, et cetera, they want Joe Biden.
BILA: Right.
GUILFOYLE: But if Bernie is in it all the way to the end, it makes it even messier. And they're going to have a very, very nasty convention.
BILA: Now, if you were advising Bernie Sanders -- and I don't know why they haven't hired you yet; I mean, you're brilliant.
SHILLUE: I'm from New England.
BILA: But if you...
GUILFOYLE: And the dental floss. Plan ahead.
BILA: The dental floss, exactly. His teeth would be beautiful. But if you were advising him, what would you tell him to do in terms of now what he should be doing with respect to Hillary? Should he go hard on -- should he bring up the e-mails? Is this his moment in time to get tough?
SHILLUE: Well, if they hired me as an adviser before, I would have told him to go tough on her before. He -- he was treating her with kid gloves until lately.
BILA: Right.
SHILLUE: So the time to be tough on Hillary has passed. But of course, I think he should stay in. Oh, poor Hillary; she has someone running against her. I mean, that's politics.
This entitlement thing, you can really see it with Hillary. She was annoyed to run against Barack Obama. She was saying, "What's going on here? I have to deal with this?" And then she's been treating Bernie the same way. Well, guess what? People like Bernie more than they like you. And I don't think he's likable at all, Eric.
BILA: Well, not more than they like me.
SHILLUE: Well, look...
BILA: I mean, let's not get carried away.
SHILLUE: Eric thinks he's -- no, Eric thinks he's likable. I don't think he is. He's just more likable than Hillary.
BILA: I actually think he's very likable. I met him.
WILLIAMS: You know, I would agree with you that I don't. But let me just say to Eric that a recent poll of Sanders supporters found only 6 percent - - 6 percent -- had a positive view of Donald Trump. So this fantasy you have about...
GUILFOYLE: Here we go again.
WILLIAMS: ... oh, all these Sanders people are going to run over...
GUILFOYLE: "Fantasy Island."
WILLIAMS: Well, it is. Because I think that's the basis of your argument.
GUILFOYLE: Eric and Mr. Roarke.
WILLIAMS: Working-class people in states like West Virginia, Ohio, Michigan might, in fact, flip those states to red states.
BOLLING: Well, look what's going down on the right. I mean, the "never Trump" crowd, they are voting for Hillary. They are. Some of them are actually voting for Hillary; some of them are staying home, which is in essence a vote for Hillary.
BILA: Yes.
BOLLING: You get the same thing on the other side, and it plays right in.
WILLIAMS: I'm just saying the numbers.
GUILFOYLE: We'll see what happened. People did that then with Romney. They stayed home, they didn't come out, and what happened? Oh, hi. You again, Barack Obama. Fantastic.
BILA: Well, if I were advising Bernie, I don't have the dental floss, but I would tell him to stay in. But you know?
SHILLUE: I'm always here for you.
BILA: Well, you have better teeth.
Coming up on "The Five," we pay tribute to the greatest, Muhammad Ali, gone too soon at the age of 74. We'll be back in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUHAMMAD ALI, FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION: He wanted to go to heaven, so I took him in seven.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You took him in seven?
ALI: I'm the king of the world!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold it, hold it, hold it. Hold it, you re not desperate.
ALI: I'm a bad man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, wait.
ALI: I shook up the world! I shook up the world! I shook up the world!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: It was a moment that reduced many to tears, including me. Muhammad Ali emerging from the darkness 20 years ago in Atlanta to light the Olympic flame. The world is certainly a little darker now that the Greatest is gone.
Ali was a hero to millions. He was my hero. I've been fortunate to have had the honor to meet him several times. I interviewed the boxing legend back in 2001. Here is a picture of us goofing around, me pretending to punch him. We've had dinner, and I've been with him at a couple of charity events.
To see Ali in the ring, though, that was astounding. He moved with a ballet dancer's grace, and he was a big guy: 6'2", over 200 pounds. But when he retired, he became even bigger than the sport.
President Obama said it well: Muhammad Ali shook up the world, and we are all better for it.
Funeral services will be held in Kentucky on Thursday and Friday. His family has invited me to attend. His legacy, that will live on forever.
You know, I was thinking that -- to myself -- I wrote this on FOXNews.com. He's the most famous man of the 20th Century. He's a boxer, an American, Muhammad Ali. Anybody here agree or disagree?
BOLLING: Most famous man of the 20th Century?
WILLIAMS: Yes, Muhammad Ali. I think you can go -- I think about him in China, everybody.
BOLLING: I think McMellon (ph) might give a run for the money. But can I just say that he -- you're right. He was the -- he was the sport. He made the sport amazing. But the best part of Muhammad Ali wasn't when he was in the ring. It was afterwards.
Do you remember all those -- all those times he would leave, and he would go to a classroom of kids? These kids would just light up, and he was so much fun. He could talk to little kids. He could talk to politicians. He owned the media.
He -- whatever he's doing right now, everyone should take some of that and use it. Because wow. He just -- he just -- when he was getting such pushback for becoming a Muslim -- remember all that issue? And he just turned it around and made him...
GUILFOYLE: And the draft.
BOLLING: ... lovable. Yes, and they pushed back on. So there's a lot of things that people were bothered.
WILLIAMS: People didn't like that at all.
BOLLING: But he turned it around.
SHILLUE: My memory as a kid was that he had a lot of support. I grew up in a very Catholic town. And a lot of people respected his -- you know, his freedom of religion. And he talked about that. I remember my parents supported him at the time, and they explained to me that he -- that he was a conscientious objector.
And, you know, I used to watch him on the entertainment shows, and he would go on with Howard Cosell.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
SHILLUE: And he was rhyming and he was -- you know, as a kid, that's what I knew him from, was the entertainment shows. And he was kind of freestyle. This was the era before hip-hop. But he would go on and freestyle...
GUILFOYLE: Original rapper.
SHILLUE: Yes. And he -- and he would improvise, but he was never profane. He was always very clean. And he was very -- I mean, I just loved him as a kid. And you know, I think he was so dignified. And so the way he -- it was so hard to be -- it was so hard to be a black athlete at the time, to be a black celebrity, but he handled it so well.
WILLIAMS: And on that point, it was so unusual to see an athlete, specifically a black athlete, willing to speak out on social/political issues. Because everybody else, I mean, up to Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, they keep quiet, because that's going to affect their bottom line.
But Jedediah, he spoke out early on.
BILA: Yes, I love that. The word that I think of when I think of him is "fearless." Because in so many ways, in his work, outside of his work, he just spoke his mind, whether it was controversial or not.
And a lot of times, when we hear celebrities, you know, actors or athletes, speak about politics, we cringe. But when he would do it, he would make you think about those issues. And even if you weren't inclined to agree with him, you left those moments having so much respect for him as a human being who had really thought through these things and was making an impact on his daily life in so many ways, not only in his work.
So you know, he left the world too soon. I think no matter who you are, you do kind of know his name and you know what he stood for. And you know that his mark is left in a really big way.
WILLIAMS: It certainly is. So Kimberly, you know, I was saying before that when I saw him like that torch in Atlanta, it really shook me up, because it was unclear who was going to have that honor for the United States of America. And there, suddenly, comes the kid who was the outsider. You now, people didn't like him. You know, I have friends who still don't like him, because he evaded the draft. He told me he didn't evade the draft; he just avoided it. But he didn't serve. Joe Louis served. Right?
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And there are people, though, who would say, "Ali, you changed your name. You went from being a Christian to a Muslim." People didn't -- some people didn't like that.
GUILFOYLE: Right. But I mean, that's his prerogative. It's his choice, you know, to embrace religious freedom, which we celebrate in this country, and we help others in need across the world when they are fighting for their religious freedom, like we see the Christians being persecuted, you know, by ISIS.
So it's important to stand up for your personal beliefs, your religious beliefs. And that's why this is the greatest country in the world, much like Muhammad Ali was the, you know, greatest boxer.
I love the sport of boxing. I love to box myself. And I just have found him to be personally inspirational, you know, in my life and just someone that has that kind of level of confidence and fighting for what you believe in, I think is a good lesson for young people, too.
BOLLING: Can you help me out here?
WILLIAMS: What?
BOLLING: There was a documentary on the -- the rumble in the jungle. I can't remember the name of the documentary. Remember the name? It is phenomenal. If you have -- what's that?
SHILLUE: Amazing.
BOLLING: "When We Were Kings," yes.
WILLIAMS: "When We Were Kings."
BOLLING: Amazing. If you have any inkling to watch this at all, it will be the best one or two hours, however long that thing is.
GUILFOYLE: Great.
WILLIAMS: And one last note. Let me just say, his fight against Parkinson's, for everybody, anybody in your family...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: ... extraordinary.
GUILFOYLE: Courageous.
WILLIAMS: Last event he attended in Arizona for the Parkinson's, anti -- the people who are fighting Parkinson's is what I'm trying to say.
Tune in to the FOX News Channel on Thursday and Friday for coverage of memorial services for Muhammad Ali. The world will never forget him.
Ahead, a surprising medical reason why some of us -- hmm, I wonder if I'm in this? -- are chronically late. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHILLUE: We've all been late to something, but some people are late to everything. You know who you are.
GUILFOYLE: Juan.
SHILLUE: You drive your friends and family mad when you're not on time, and you may be the mad one, actually. One scientist is diagnosing chronic lateness as an illness, a sign of insanity, a bizarre compulsion to defeat oneself by making plans you know you can't keep.
Juan, why is everyone looking at you? I don't understand.
GUILFOYLE: Because Juan confessed.
WILLIAMS: First I thought you were looking at Jedediah.
SHILLUE: I did. Just go.
WILLIAMS: But in fact, if this was my family around this table, they'd say, "Let me introduce you to the late Juan Williams." I mean, it's bad. It's horrible.
BOLLING: Not that late. Kind of late.
WILLIAMS: I'm late.
BOLLING: So Kimberly, do you remember Benghazi, one of the worst nights in the history of "The Five"?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. Are you talking about that?
BOLLING: You know why that happened? Because Juan was late. You remember that?
WILLIAMS: Me.
GUILFOYLE: Is that what it was?
BOLLING: We were trying to get a group together in Iowa to go to a dinner.
GUILFOYLE: That actually was, yes.
BOLLING: And we're waiting for Juan. So half the group goes to dinner, and the other half didn't. It became a whole thing.
GUILFOYLE: Became a big thing.
BOLLING: So we can blame Benghazi on...
WILLIAMS: I never heard this story, but it's possible.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, with our executive producer. I ate alone with him the next night.
SHILLUE: Do you believe in the insanity defense, Eric, that it...?
BOLLING: I'm always on time. I don't know. Always on time.
SHILLUE: So, it must be -- Kimberly, it must be rudeness, then, right? I think that it is.
GUILFOYLE: No, but...
SHILLUE: Somebody once told me it was self-absorption. And I bought that.
GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't know. It depends on how busy you are and if you live in New York. But besides that, your family said -- your sister was upset with you, right?
SHILLUE: Yes. I remember one time -- I used to be late to everything. And I went to meet my sister, and she said, "You know, that's selfish, showing up late."
And I said, "It is? I thought I was just scatter-brained. Isn't that kind of a cute thing?"
GUILFOYLE: You're like nice...
SHILLUE: She said, "No, it's not. It's self-absorption." And I stopped.
WILLIAMS: But here's the thing, Tom. It says now it may be a medical condition. In fact, it has this thing here, CLIP: chronically late, insane people.
SHILLUE: I know.
GUILFOYLE: Juan, this explains everything.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no. But it also says, Kimberly...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: ... that people who are late tend to be more optimistic. They think they can get more things done in a limited amount of time.
SHILLUE: That makes sense, yes.
BILA: It's called delusional.
SHILLUE: Well, look, Jedediah...
BILA: Yes.
SHILLUE: ... women are allowed to show up late. Like on a date, if a woman shows up late, I'm going to give her a little time. Right? I'm back in my -- my single days.
But guys cannot get away with the same thing, can they? What if a guy who showed up late on a date with you?
BILA: They'd be out. I don't like people who are late. I also don't like people who are early, though. Basically, I don't like people.
But no, because like my dad has that affliction, where he'll tell me he's going to be there at 12, but at 11:15, he's outside in the car and then I've got to rush and do everything, you know.
So I think -- I think you were right, though. Whoever told you that it was self-absorption -- and I think that might have been me.
SHILLUE: Yes.
BILA: They're 100 percent right. Because you can't -- you can't, like -- it's like it's all about you. It's all about your day, and your schedule. You don't take a minute to realize somebody else has a day, and a night, and a life.
SHILLUE: That's what...
GUILFOYLE: Sounds like a guy really made you mad.
BILA: Yes, listen, I have a few complaints. I'll be writing a book about that later.
SHILLUE: Busy people...
GUILFOYLE: I wouldn't be mad if a guy showed up late. I mean, if it's like they always do, they come an hour late, I mean, come on. They're going to, like, get there. Sometimes people get there when they get there.
SHILLUE: Well, you know...
BILA: Do they have to arrive with a special gift if they're late? Because I think that would be important.
GUILFOYLE: Really?
SHILLUE: Oh, yes.
BILA: Listen...
GUILFOYLE: No, I think you should be understanding.
SHILLUE: If I am late, I do. I get a gift.
GUILFOYLE: Really? I'm understanding.
SHILLUE: I get a gift, because I know it is -- it's bad to show up late. And you should repent if you are late.
WILLIAMS: You know that the funniest thing I read about this?
GUILFOYLE: Let them know you're on your way.
WILLIAMS: That Vladimir Putin showed up late to negotiate with Angela Merkel, and she left. She just walked out.
SHILLUE: You've got to show them. All right.
GUILFOYLE: That's a boss move.
SHILLUE: "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: All righty. Time for "One More Thing." I'm going to start with a big announcement about this year's FOX Fan Weekend. It kicks off on Friday, June 24 with a "FOX and Friends" summer concert. This year, a special edition for our "Five" fans. You can come watch "The Five" live outside Friday night right here.
Then on Saturday or Sunday, catch the Yankees play at 1 p.m. If you want to see our show, watch the concert, the summer concert series or attend a Yankees game, e-mail FOXFanWeekend@FOXNews.com by June 25 and include your full name...
GUILFOYLE: Fifteenth.
BOLLING: Sorry, June 15, June 1-5, including your full name, phone number and which event you'd like to attend.
All right. I'll start with my "One More Thing," very quickly. This is prom weekend for Eric Chase. Check it out. Here's the first picture. Eric and the lovely Gabrielle right there on the way to prom. That's a pre-prom picture.
Next picture, very quickly, all the boys in the line. Eric is second to the right there. The fellows before their big night out. And finally, a little -- I don't know -- it's just an action shot in the middle of all that going on. They had a great time. Congratulations on everyone going to prom.
OK, K.G., you're up.
GUILFOYLE: I have the best "One More Thing" ever, because our very own Greta Van Susteren, yes, dominating, once again. Sixth year in a row, Greta has made the Forbes list of Women's 100 Most Powerful. All right? I love this. I want a recount. She can in at 94, should have been No. 1. That went to Angela Merkel followed up by Hillary Clinton.
And did you know this? That actually, Greta has been a fixture on this list every year since 2011. I think that's very cool. We're very proud of her. She's my great friend. And this list represents, quote, "the smartest and toughest female business leaders, entrepreneurs, investors, scientists, philanthropists and CEOs, making their mark in the world today." Well done.
BOLLING: Excellent. Congratulations, Greta, from all of us.
All right, Juanito. You're up.
WILLIAMS: All right. So an Army strong "hoo-rah" to Deshauna Barber. This weekend, she became the first member of the military to win Miss USA. She's a D.C. native. So I really take some pride in that.
But what really strikes me is that this 26-year-old lieutenant in the Army Reserve plans to use her title for veterans' causes to help fight the issue of suicide and post-traumatic disorder that so many members of the military are facing. So good for her. And once again, Army "hoo-rah."
Did I get that right, guys? Hoo-rah.
BOLLING: You know, did you hear -- did you watch that? Did you see her final -- the answer to her final question?
WILLIAMS: No.
BOLLING: She was amazing. She nailed it.
WILLIAMS: All right.
BOLLING: I mean, she just crushed it. Congratulations.
Jedediah, you're up.
BILA: Well, this won't surprise you all, but sometimes Tom Shillue's friends around the world, they cause trouble.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
BILA: And this particular monkey in India, potentially trained by Tom, he waited outside of a jewelry store. He got the owner to throw him some crumbs. Then he busts the door open. He runs inside. He steals money from the register and leaves. So that's what happens when you leave your pets and/or friends with Tom Shillue.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
SHILLUE: I think it's great. They're always stealing food. They should steal cash. It's much more practical.
BILA: Did you train that monkey?
SHILLUE: Not a perishable item.
GUILFOYLE: Like "Ocean's 11" or "13," "14," on of those.
BOLLING: You realize that happens?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, they train them to steal.
BOLLING: They train monkeys for pickpockets.
BILA: That's what I'm talking about.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
BOLLING: It's your fault.
SHILLUE: No, I like the old-fashioned grinder. I like the musical monkey. That's my -- that's my gig.
BOLLING: You're up.
GUILFOYLE: OK. You can take that.
SHILLUE: All right. The other night on "Red Eye," we did a story about crickets. Apparently, they're a food source that has wonderful protein, and they're the wave of the future. People are going to be eating crickets in the future. So we got a bowl of them. Roll the tape. I was eating crickets on the air. And no one...
GUILFOYLE: So gross.
SHILLUE: JoAnn was a little grossed out. Jedediah, I think -- you were on the panel. None of my panelists would eat crickets except me.
BILA: I would have done it.
GUILFOYLE: Were they alive?
BOLLING: You mean real?
SHILLUE: Yes. Crickets. We had a bowl of crickets.
BILA: Were they chocolate covered? Or...
SHILLUE: No, they were not -- they had a little smokiness to them. They were cooked.
BILA: What did they taste like?
GUILFOYLE: So they're dead crickets.
SHILLUE: They tasted like crickets. I mean, they were -- they were...
BILA: I thought you were going to say taste like chicken.
SHILLUE: They don't taste like chicken.
GUILFOYLE: That will never make it to "Kimberly's Food Court." All right. Cancelled, crickets.
WILLIAMS: So I was in China. In fact, I was in China for the Olympics, and that's the only time I've eaten scorpion.
SHILLUE: I ate scorpion in China.
WILLIAMS: There you go.
BILA: You'll eat anything.
SHILLUE: Yes. I ate something else in China. I can't even say it.
GUILFOYLE: Are you missing some thrills in your life?
BILA: Oh, man.
SHILLUE: It was part of a mutton that I ate.
WILLIAMS: Oh, well, good. That's better.
SHILLUE: The part you wouldn't want to eat.
GUILFOYLE: Great.
BOLLING: Let's leave it right there.
SHILLUE: Exactly.
GUILFOYLE: Family show.
BOLLING: Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" coming up next.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
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