Veterans react to firestorm over Donald Trump fundraiser
Media press campaign to name recipients of veteran fundraising effort; insight on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," May 24, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, Donald Trump responding to a media firestorm over the whereabouts of a multimillion-dollar pile of cash intended for America's veterans.
Good evening, and welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.
Right now, Donald Trump holding a rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We are listening in to see if Mr. Trump addresses mounting attacks over his handling of a fundraiser for veterans.
Now this all started four months ago when Trump boycotted the Fox News GOP debate in Iowa. Instead, he held a fundraiser, he said, to benefit U.S. veterans.
Now the story is back in the headlines as the veteran community and the media presses the Trump campaign to prove that this money, in fact, was raised and indeed went to charity.
Yesterday, got political. A dozen veterans showed up outside of Trump Tower in New York City to protest. Hours later, we learned those demonstrators were reportedly dispatched by Hillary Clinton's campaign. OK.
And then, tonight, in a late-breaking development, reports from the Trump campaign that the businessman personally pledged $1 million of his own money to a group that provides scholarships to the children of fallen U.S. Marines and federal law enforcement officers. Why did he do that?
Joining us now in moments, Sergeant Robert Bartlett, who is an Iraq war veteran, who was badly wounded by an Iranian-made roadside bomb in Iraq, and Carl Higbie, who is a former Navy SEAL and Trump supporter.
But we begin tonight with Trace Gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with the latest details.
Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, just today, Donald Trump said on social media that the event back in January raised almost $6 million for military vets. Then also today, Trump turned around and told The Washington Post, he never promised he'd raise $6 million, saying, quote, "I didn't say 6."
But then Trump was reminded of this. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE: We just cracked, the sign was just given, we just cracked $6 million, right. 6 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Still, the presumptive GOP nominee blames the media, posting on Twitter, quoting, "Amazingly, with all the money I have raised for the vets, I've got nothing but bad publicity from the dishonest and disgusting media."
And while it's true the media is trying to track down the money, Trump's own people are the ones tossing around dollar amounts. His general counsel told CNN, "The event back in January raised $4 million or $5 million."
And last week, campaign manager Corey Lewandowski said the number was $4.5 million, including a $1 million personal gift by Donald Trump that had, quote, been fully spent.
Except there was no record of when Trump gave the money or who he gave it to.
Now we know that despite saying for months that he'd given $1 million, past tense, Trump actually never gave it until last night.
Some believe the mounting pressure forced him to come through. So exactly how much was raised back in January remains a bit foggy. What's clear is according to several reports anywhere from $3 million to $4 million has been given away, benefiting everyone from aging veterans to the children of marines killed in action. The remainder of the money is supposed to be given away this weekend.
Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Joining me now, Sgt. Robert Bartlett, who is an Iraq war vet, who was badly wounded by an Iranian-made roadside bomb. And Cark Higbie, who is a former Navy SEAL and Trump supporter.
Great to see you both.
Sgt. Bartlett, let me start with you.
Sergeant, let me start with you. Why is this a deal?
SGT. ROBERT BARTLETT, IRAQ WAR VET: Why is this a what, I'm sorry?
KELLY: Why is this a thing? You know, Trump says, hey, look, I'm almost there. I'm almost got the $6 million, $1 million from me personally, which he just pledged today, or paid, I guess, today. Why is this a thing?
BARTLETT: It matters to everybody, you know. Think about it. If a veteran says, hey -- or an American says, hey, I'm going to join the military, I'm going to serve the U.S., I'm going to protect the people and the constitution from enemies, foreign, domestic.
And so when he says he support the veterans, they've got to support them. They've got to live it. They can't just give away ideas or thoughts and not actually any follow-through it. It's just -- it becomes a, you know, they just get exposed over time.
So I hope that he was doing the right thing. Because all we can do is look in his past and see if it was really who he is as a person and does he really support the vets.
I can't judge him on this.
KELLY: Why did they say, Carl, that, you know, that they had raised $6 million when, in fact, it appears according to "The Washington Post" report to be far less than that?
CARL HIGBIE, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORT: Well, you read The Washington Post report. It says that he had pledged $6 million at the time. And he asked, if you look at the transcript, he said, we'd raised $6 million, right? He reached out to the crowd and asked. And at the time, that's what he thought.
Now, look --
KELLY: They've been saying that for months, Carl.
HIGBIE: Right. But, look, I mean, he's donated so much money. Hillary Clinton --
KELLY: That's a dodge, let's stay on this point.
HIGBIE: OK, so --
KELLY: There's no question Trump has been generous to veterans. According to him, we haven't seen the actual records. But the point is whether the facts here have been overstated.
HIGBIE: Megyn, I think this is a little bit of a witch hunt. This is like a high school kid complaining that he got a Lexus instead of a Lamborghini.
I mean, look, he's given so much --
KELLY: In this scenario, it's the complaining veterans?
[21:05:10] HIGBIE: I think what it is that fool McCoy standing out in front of his office that was hired by Hillary Clinton to go protest, saying that Trump "F" us.
I mean, this is a complete dodge. And this is just trying to cover up for Trump. The media has succeeded in trying to hold down -- or not succeeded in trying to hold down Trump. And it's just, the fact he has given so much --
KELLY: This guy, McCoy, just to bring our viewers up-to-date.
HIGBIE: Right.
KELLY: .claimed that he was there outside of Trump's offices protesting because he was ticked off and he had no affiliation with the campaign. Then it turn out, even the Hillary Clinton campaign admitted, they helped organize this and then McCoy said, oh, yes, actually, I did talk to Hillary camp.
So that's a different issue, as I see it, Sgt. Bartlett. I don't know. You tell me, because now "The Washington Post," which started to run the numbers, first, they said the number received by veterans groups was $3.1 million. The tally on money raised was at $4.45 million. It doesn't add up to what Trump had said.
But Trump's point is these groups need to be vetted, it takes time. There's no there, there.
BARTLETT: I just want politicians or people running for office to be honest and do the right thing. You say you support the vets, then do so. You know, that's what the American public is asking for. They're asking for these politicians who are running to do the right thing.
We've put these people in office. They say they do a bunch of things. And it's just a bunch of hot air. There's nothing behind it.
When somebody says they're going to war, they go to war and they do the right thing. And then when they come back, they expect to be taken care of.
But now we're handing our vets out so getting out of the military early. They're getting 15 years in. Multiple combat tours. And they're showing the door without any kind of retirement.
And then politicians get, you know, lifetime retirement for serving one term in office. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And then they're just going to have to suck up those long lines at the V.A. because it's just like waiting in line at Disneyland. And if you don't like it, that's the way it goes --
HIGBIE: Sgt. Bartlett, with all due respect --
KELLY: Let the wounded vet -- let him make his point and response to that, sir. Then I'll go to you, Carl.
HIGBIE: Sgt. Bartlett, with all due respect, I think that's fairly shallow of you to say that Trump only gave $4.5 million. Sure, he said $6 million. It's $1.5 million. I think that's a ridiculous statement. I think it's honestly uncharacteristic of a veteran to say something like that, respectively.
KELLY: Go ahead, sergeant.
BARTLETT: Actually, I didn't even say any of that. So as what I did say is that people need to be held accountable for what they do say and what they do, do. That's all that matters.
You know, if he makes a mistake, hey, there's no big deal. Own up to it. I made a mistake. I made many mistakes in my life.
The thing is that veterans are setting themselves on fire because they're not getting the help that they need in front of a VA center. You know, that's a reality. We're losing 22 veterans a day. So let's live by that, you know.
We could get on Fox right here and we should be raising money and actually do something. We could raise money for the vets right now. I'm on the board of three non-profits. Let's do that.
You know, we got -- all our, 100 percent of our money goes right to the vets. So who he says he is, let him. It's all going to come out in the wash. And it's going to -- the truth will be there, you know.
KELLY: Guys, thank you.
BARTLETT: All I know is Bush is still out there helping the vets. He doesn't have to be. He's still welcoming them home every time. You know, that's the reality. That's the kind of president I want to see.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I got to go, guys. I got to go.
Thank you, both, for your service. And thanks for being here tonight.
HIGBIE: Thank you.
BARTLETT: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, the Trump campaign is also defending itself tonight from new fallout. After the campaign posted a hard-hitting new ad that goes after Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was very nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No woman should be subjected to it. It was an assault.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He starts to bite on my top lip and I try to pull away from him.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Not 24 hours later, a number of media outlets were quick to remind Mr. Trump that he did not exactly stand up for the women who had accused Bill Clinton of wrongdoing. In fact, quite the opposite.
Here's one example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These people are just -- I don't know where he met him, where he found him, but the whole group, it's truly an unattractive cast of characters -- Linda Tripp, Lucianne Goldberg.
I mean this woman, I watch her on television. She is so bad.
The whole group, Paula Jones, Lewinsky. It's just a really unattractive group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And he went on to say, and I mean that physically as well, physically unattractive.
Campaign Carl Cameron is our chief political correspondent. He is reporting tonight from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Carl?
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Megyn.
Well, Trump makes all of this a counterpunch. He cast his criticism of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and particularly Bill Clinton's relationships with women over the course of his presidency and before as his measure of backing down Hillary Clinton when she accuses Donald Trump of being a sexist or being misogynist.
Clinton argues that Trump's rhetoric during this campaign and over the years has been sexist, has denigrated women, has objectified them, has made their personal attraction more important than the quality of their personality and character. And Trump says if they're going to come after me with those types of criticism, then it's fair game for Donald Trump to go after Bill Clinton's relationship with women and his many scandals during his presidency.
Things like the rape allegations by Juanita Broaddrick. Just recently, Trump suggested that one of the things that has to be brought up is a discussion of what happen to Vince Foster. Clinton family confidant, Hillary Clinton's law partner at one point, who commits suicide during the very early stages of Clinton's candidacy.
So Trump isn't backing down from his criticism. He's got a rally here in New Mexico tonight. This is a state where there is almost a majority, 48 percent of the state is Hispanic. And as a consequence, his immigration rhetoric, his rhetoric towards minorities and immigrants, is considered very controversial.
And this is likely to be a very hot rally. There's a huge crowd here. The overhead voice of God has warned people to stay away from demonstrators and have them escorted.
When Trump takes the stage in a few moments, you can expect there to be a lot of raucous crowd. Demonstrators being hauled out. All that sort of thing as Bill and Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump argue over their past. And who has the worser of the pasts.
Megyn?
KELLY: Carl, good to see you. We'll stay on this situation in Albuquerque as news warrants.
My next guest knows this story very well. He covered it in depth when the whole Clinton scandal broke.
Brit Hume is our Fox News senior political analyst. And he joins me now.
Brit, all right, so to those who say this is ancient history about Bill Clinton, there's no there there, move along, what say you?
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, back at the time when all of this -- these allegations against President Clinton were surfacing, the woman, Juanita Broaddrick who appears in this Trump ad, accused the president of rape, of raping her in a hotel room in Little Rock. Her charges were specific.
She was who she said she was. And there's no doubt about that. And a lot of us found the allegations credible. At least credible to the point where they bore serious investigation. And I always believed that based on the rest of his conduct that the allegations were likely true.
NBC News' Lisa Myers did an interview with Juanita Broaddrick in which she explained the whole thing. It was pretty powerful stuff. NBC sat on it for a long time, to the point where one night back when I was the anchor of "Special Report," we went on the air that night on the panel and we were all wearing buttons that said, as you can see, free Lisa Myers.
KELLY: You found your button.
HUME: I did. I found it in --
KELLY: This is when he was running? When he was running so NBC buried the report because he was the Democrat running for president?
HUME: Well, I can't identify their motives because I can't read minds, but they sat on that report. It finally did air, but it was never seriously followed up by the rest of the media. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that what Donald Trump is saying does not represent a complete flip-flop on his part in terms of what he was saying about the scandals at the time. I think it does.
What strikes me about it, though, is my view is that he calls attention to that case and it gets exploded, that would not be an unwelcome thing. Now as for the rest of it, well, the things he's saying, I'm not going to account for those.
He certainly once had a very friendly relationship as that photograph is established with the Clintons. If he thought the guy was a rapist at the time, it was an odd thing to invite him to his wedding.
Having said all that, it all strikes me, Megyn, is an attempt on his part, as Carl even suggested to, to throw up some anti-aircraft fire against the bombardment which I think he's expecting and is already to some extend under way from her, from Hillary Clinton, about his past statements and actions toward women.
KELLY: You know, Brit, obviously Trump has taken a lot of incoming with respect to his treatment of women as well, including his own ex-wife, Ivana Trump, accusing him of raping her in sworn deposition testimony, which she has since recanted. And it was 30 years ago. And it was in the course of a divorce proceeding. And people say a lot of things during divorce proceedings, even under oath, that are not true.
However, my point is, there is mud to be slung on both sides. You tell me, whether the American voter, when they listen to it, he raped her, or he raped her, whether women and others in this country are going to say gross.
Where's Gary Johnson? What are the people supposed to do with this?
HUME: Well, I must say to you, Megyn, this goes to character. And character is always a valid issue. And, certainly, one's attitude toward and treatment of women is a valid issue, especially for the president of the United States.
I mean, people may look at this and be turned off by it, and wish the campaign were about something perhaps more edifying. But, you know, it's not unfair to ask the public this question.
Look what happen in -- look, how women were treated the last time the Clintons were in the White House. You want a rerun of that? Then that's not an unfair question.
[21:15:03] And, of course, people by the same token, response can be, well, do you want this guy with his long record of sexual conquests and bragging about them, do you want him in the Oval Office? So it's not an illegitimate issue. It may not be an attractive issue, but there it is.
KELLY: What are you doing for the next eight years, mm, mm? Free Brit Hume.
HUME: I'm too old to get in that kind of trouble.
KELLY: Great to see you, Brit.
HUME: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: So as Brit just mentioned, we're already seeing bloody knuckles in this general election fight between Trump and Clinton.
And Newt Gingrich is next on where this goes from here. Plus, we've got new information tonight on the federal investigation involving a close friend of the Clintons, a Chinese billionaire and some questionable campaign donations.
Marc Thiessen and Robert Zimmerman are here to explain what this could mean for 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No concern whatsoever, no concern whatsoever that this is going to negatively impact Hillary Clinton and her race for the presidency?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Well, you just heard Brit Hume talking about the Clintons, Donald Trump, sex scandals and character.
Joining me now with more on that, the former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich. He is the co-author of the new book, "Rediscovering God in America."
And he was speaker of the House during the Clinton impeachment process.
Mr. Speaker, good to see you.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Good to be with you.
KELLY: So Bill Clinton got in trouble not so much for the affair, but for lying about it under oath.
So let me just take you back to the affair itself. And ask you, since we're talking about affairs and we're talking about alleged sexual misconduct, including alleged rape, whether you think that's fair game right now in this election.
GINGRICH: Well, I think you drew a very important key distinction. The problem the president faced that led to impeachment was he had committed perjury, which is a felony as you know, and ultimately he lost his license to practice law for, I think, five or six years in Arkansas because he was guilty.
These other allegations, and I though Brit Hume was fascinating. I'd never heard the story about NBC sitting on the charges of Broaddrick.
There's no question that there have been a lot of fairly offensive stories floating around Bill Clinton for most of his career. I think this whole thing is sad. And I think it's probably unavoidable.
I mean, we're living through an era where, you know, we're getting deeper and deeper into the gutter in a whole range of ways and this campaign is just going to be part of that same process.
KELLY: She's on record. Hillary Clinton, as saying, when someone alleges she's been raped, you believe her. You believe some alleging -- Juanita Broaddrick, if I'm not mistaken, never filed charges against Bill Clinton.
She made the allegations. She wound up suing him. That case was dismissed. She was suing him over documents that she wanted him to maintain.
But, you know, what kind of a position does that put Hillary Clinton in? These are all the women who alleged -- the top three alleged that they were assaulted by Bill Clinton, the bottom two had affairs with him, that was established.
Go ahead.
GINGRICH: Well, look, I think this is the whole challenge she has because she's kind of a transitional figure.
In some ways, her career started back when it was very challenging and very difficult for professional women to rise. And she worked very, very hard. And she fought her way very hard. And she broke through a lot of glass ceilings including at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock.
On the other hand, this is now, you know, 30 years later. And younger women are looking at her and they don't understand what a lot of this stuff is all about.
And I think probably most younger women, if they had somebody who did what Bill did, would have walked out. So she's got -- it's very hard for her to play this role --
KELLY: Well, you can't judge that. You know, obviously, Hillary didn't believe these rape allegations, but he had -- you know, what he admitted to is he had some affairs. You know you admitted similar.
GINGRICH: Sure.
Donald Trump has admitted similar. Many people are unhappy in their marriages and make stupid decisions when it comes to how to find happiness. But it is a different matter in this case when you lie about it under oath. And certainly rape is a totally different matter altogether.
GINGRICH: Well, and when by the way, when you lie to the entire country, which he did in April of 1998.
I mean, so you've got to look at this. All I'm saying is this is going to be a mess. It's going to stay a mess for a while. Hillary's a very aggressive attacker. And she's up against an opponent who thinks that one of the lessons to learn from 2012 is to never let a liberal Democratic get away with an attack.
So Trump has done a counterattack very aggressively. We saw him do it all during the primaries. And he's going to, you know, pick up whatever he can find and throw it at her.
KELLY: Do you think this puts her back on her heels? Does this make her say, never mind, I'm not going to go down that route?
GINGRICH: I think that it gets inside her head, and I think it's very painful and very hard for her to deal with. And, frankly, probably very hard for she and Bill to deal with.
I mean, this is something that's with them over and over and over again as they try to sort things out in terms of they'd like to focus on the campaign. They'd like to focus on their positive message. Instead, they have evenings like tonight where the media's at best not good and at worst is terrible
And I think part of the Trump technique is to just surround her with so much noise that she can't think very clearly.
KELLY: And yet is it pointing to other bad behavior to defend one's own bad behavior? Because there's no question Trump has talked about women in derogatory terms.
GINGRICH: No reasonable person is going to go back and try to defend, you know, Donald Trump and some of the dumber things he did over the course of his life, including, by the way, Donald Trump. But he has this lovely vaccination of saying, look, now I'm a public figure. Now, I'm a grandfather. Now I'm a mature adult --
KELLY: Even during the past year?
GINGRICH: He has said some things that I would just assume he didn't say. I'm not defending him. I'm just saying, I think he's going to basically say that he is a much more mature person given the things you were talking about, than he was back when one of these things happen.
He can't deny them. I mean, then you get involve in a fight that is hopeless. So he has to shrug them off and say now that I'm a public figure, now I'm in a different place, I'm a guy that you can respect.
KELLY: Mr. Speaker, it's always great speaking with you. Thanks for being here.
GINGRICH: Good to be with you. Thanks.
KELLY: Well, new details tonight on the FBI investigation involving a close friend of the Clintons. Governor Terry McAuliffe of Virginia.
Also, a Chinese billionaire involved in this. And some questionable campaign donations. The governor was forced to speak out on this today.
Up next, Robert Zimmerman and Marc Thiessen on how this could affect the presidential race.
Plus, some people are alleging Debbie Wasserman Schultz is about to go. We'll ask him about that.
Also, some ugly questions tonight for the Baltimore prosecutor trying to convict six cops in the death of Freddie Gray. Allen Dershowitz is here on why he thinks the D.A. Marilyn Mosby should pay a price for her actions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, exclusive new polling results just in to "The Kelly File" with what pollster Frank Luntz is now calling, quote, "The path to the presidency."
Luntz went to seven key swing states. He asked almost three dozen questions and determined that the key to this election will be how one group of voters come down on the question of honest and trustworthy.
Joining me now, Frank Luntz, CEO of Luntz Global and the author of "What Americans Really Want, Really."
Frank, good to see you. So what did you find?
FRANK LUNTZ, CEO, LUNTZ GLOBAL: So the key here is to go to the states that really matter. Not a national sample, but just those that could actually determine the election. And if you can put up that slide, we went to Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Nevada, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire.
And these are the states that are going to determine who wins and who loses. And what we found was there is a key 11 percent of the electorate who doesn't want either Clinton or Trump. We call them 'none of the above.' Just like we had sack their moms and ask their das.
To me, it's going to be the none of the above voters. One out of every nine that will determine this election. And the key component to them is that they're not issue voters, they're attribute voters.
If you look at then, two out of three are women, which is good for Hillary Clinton. They're younger voters, which is also good for Clinton. But politically, they lean towards the republicans.
A majority voter for Mitt Romney in the last election. And they feel better towards the GOP. However, the most important component is that they are character voters. They're attribute voters. And the attribute that matters the most is honest and trustworthy
KELLY: Well, they have nobody then, because the polls show that the voters don't think he's -- Donald isn't trustworthy and they don't think she is either.
LUNTZ: And that's exactly the point. And the candidate that can prove that they are less untrustworthy is the candidate that's going to win. These are people who are going to reject...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Who lies less.
LUNTZ: Unfortunately, that's what we've come right now. And it's why so many Americans are angry. Megyn, take a look at the last 50 years of polling, we've never had a situation where both the republican and democrat were this much disliked this early in the campaign. That's why these people matter so much.
KELLY: They are so pessimistic, but you do say this shows you a legitimate path for Donald Trump. Why is that?
LUNTZ: And I've never said this on air, I've never said this to a reporter, for the first time, I can now see Donald Trump winning the election in November for two reasons. Number one, if these voters are particularly angry, mad, with the conditions in the country.
And once again, that's closer to the republican position. They think America's best days are behind it. They think people are working longer hours for less money. And they're frustrated with Washington.
And number two, they don't like traditional politics and they don't like traditional politicians. Yes, Hillary Clinton would be the first woman. But she's been in office for 25 years. A quarter of a century. That's what bothers them. That's why Trump has the advantage. If he can keep them, that is his path to the White House.
KELLY: Among GOP voters, if you're angry and you want change, he's been your guy in every exit poll. Frank, great to see you.
LUNTZ: Thank you.
KELLY: So, the Clinton campaign is also now dealing with questions about Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe. A longtime pal of the president and first lady.
Meaning, former President Bill Clinton and former First Lady Hillary Clinton. Want to be president Hillary Clinton. It gets confusing.
So, the current Governor of Virginia is now the subject of an FBI probe into possible illegal contributions from a Chinese billionaire. Here he is earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, what's your level of confidence that you have not taken any campaign illegal contributions?
GOV. TERRY MCAULIFFE, D-VA.: One hundred percent. No one's alleged any wrongdoing on my part. There's an individual who wrote a check who we feel is 100 percent certain and is entitled to write the check. It's all I can tell you. Do your own research on this, gentleman.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor, would you like...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No concern whatsoever that this is going to negatively impact Hillary Clinton and her race for the presidency?
MCAULIFFE: I don't think it will affect Hillary Clinton at all, won't affect me at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Robert Zimmerman, a Clinton supporter and democratic strategist, and Marc Thiessen who is a former chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush and Fox News contributor.
Marc, just to tee it up for the viewers, basically the FBI is probing whether McAuliffe accepted an illegal campaign donation or many from this Chinese billionaire who also happens to be a big donor to the Clinton Foundation.
And McAuliffe he's been on the board of the Clinton Foundation, he is very tight with the Clinton's. So the question is whether they're trying to somehow figure out whether it was a pay to play, like I'm going to donate to Terry, I'm going to donate to the Clinton Foundation and then suddenly I'm going to have a bunch of favors from these people. Do I have it right?
MARC THIESSEN, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH SPEECHWRITER: You have it right but that's only the scratching the surface of it. So this guy, his name is Mr. Wang, and he is a member of the National People's Congress in Communist China, that communist party's highest governing body. But he is a green cardholder so he's technically legally allowed to contribute to campaigns.
He gave $120,000 to Terry McAuliffe's campaign. He gave $2 million to the Clinton Foundation. He gave $1.4 million in lobbying fees to lobby Hillary Clinton State Department when she was in office, so a little bit of a nexus there.
But I think it's a lot bigger than this. Because this investigation has been going on for more than a year. It doesn't take the FBI a year and the Justice Department a year to check the green card status of one person.
They are looking deeply into Terry McAuliffe's personal and campaign finances and that is bad news for Hillary Clinton because her campaign finances and personal finances are deeply intertwined with Terry McAuliffe.
KELLY: Robert.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Marc makes the point very clearly and very accurately that he has no facts. In fact, if Marc had any facts, he might be dangerous or even interesting.
The reality here is what we know. And that is simply that Governor McAuliffe, who I'm a great admirer of and a great supporter and he's been really extraordinarily leader of Virginia.
Governor McAuliffe was shocked by the news that came out. He's cooperating fully. There are no facts that have been established any allegations against the Governor McAuliffe. Or as you reported last night on the Kelly File, there are no allegations against the Clinton Foundation. Obviously this is going to be...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: In this particular probe.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry?
KELLY: In this probe. There's a separate -- well, Fox News have reported that there's a separate probe into that foundation.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, let's be clear. The source that Fox News "Clinton Cash" was so -- that book was so inaccurate it had to be reissued by Amazon...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: No, no, no. Catherine Herridge has been independently reporting, not based on Peter Schweizer's and the book.
ZIMMERMAN: But let's be clear about this. Obviously the right wing is going to use the news stories for character assassination by suspicion. And if you get your news from Rush Limbaugh or if you're sitting stoned in your parent's basement on Twitter hate mongering, then this might be relevant to you.
But in this election, this election is going to count on who can speak for the future of our country, that's what it's all about.
KELLY: Sure. Marc, is that where you came from, were you stoned in your parent's basement...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: He was eating Cheetos before this segment.
THIESSEN: There you go. You know, Robert, I feel sorry for you because it must be hard 20 years coming up with new excuses for these people every single time to happen on the show.
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Never a reason for an excuse.
THIESSEN: The reality is -- look, the reality as Catherine Herridge reported, broke the news in January, that the Clinton -- the FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton has expanded beyond the e-mail into a public corruption investigation and the nexus between donors, the Clinton Foundation and efforts to influence the State Department.
It turns out the Washington Post reported in 2015 that there are 175 McAuliffe donors who overlap with the Clinton Foundation donors and Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.
ZIMMERMAN: And what's wrong with that? And by the way, I'm one of...
KELLY: Just let him make the point.
THIESSEN: Wait, Robert, wait.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. OK, Marc.
THIESSEN: So, there is a nexus because their finances are intertwined. The donors who are being investigated by the FBI and Hillary Clinton's case are the same people who gave money to Terry McAuliffe. And so we need to see whether there is something there...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And he's like a money guy. He gets money from these politicians.
THIESSEN: ...whether there is...
KELLY: He's like a bundler, he's a handler. He gets -- he's connected. Listen, I got to go. I got to go but I have to ask you, Robert, about this report that Debbie Wasserman Schultz may be getting forced out of the DNC, that she's considered too divisive to unify. You're a DNC member, is that true?
ZIMMERMAN: I sure am. And that report is about as accurate as Marc's analysis of Terry McAuliffe's situation. The reality is...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: So, we'll leave it to viewers to decide how accurate that is.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, here's the reality though. I was very impressed by how many leading democrats came to the Chairwoman Wasserman Schultz's defense including Nancy Pelosi, including Barbara Mikulski.
KELLY: It's the Bernie Sanders supporters who don't like her. They feel like they haven't got a fair shake...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: I've heard that rumor.
KELLY: Yes.
ZIMMERMAN: But I think she's put a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters on the platform in different committees and I think she's going to be just fine.
KELLY: OK. He's still in the race, by the way. Great to see you both.
ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you, Megyn.
THIESSEN: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: It's not technically over on the dem side. It's not technically over in the GOP side either as a matter of fact. Everyone, it's just suspended. It's just suspended.
Also tonight, when anchors attack. Wait until you see what happened when one sportscaster thought the news anchor stole his sports story. You will not believe this.
Plus, it's one of the officers accused in the death of Freddie Gray is cleared on all charges? One of America's top legal mind suggest the real problem is this prosecutor. Alan Dershowitz is here in a cannot miss segment next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: One of the best-known legal scholars in the country is weighing in after Baltimore police officer Edward Nero accused in the death of Freddie Gray was acquitted on all charges yesterday.
But Professor Alan Dershowitz is less focused on the verdict than he is on the prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, the woman whose office has been pursuing these officers.
Alan Dershowitz is a Harvard Law professor and author of "Taking the Stand, My Life in the Law." Great to see you, professor.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: Thank you.
KELLY: You say this is serious misconduct by this young woman, by this prosecutor, why?
DERSHOWITZ: Overcharging. She charged one officer with murder to base on deprave, depraved heart. These are officers who, you know, may have made a mistake but they are not guilty of criminal conduct.
What she tried to do is stop the mob. I understand that, but you don't use the criminal justice system to solve racial problems. And she's a symptom of a larger problem.
Black Lives Matter is endangering the fairness of our legal system. Because they're rooting for outcomes based on race. Started a long time ago. Started with the O.J. Simpson case.
KELLY: You know a thing or two about this.
DERSHOWITZ: African-Americans wanted an acquittal without regard to the evidence. Now, many want convictions without regard to the evidence. We cannot allow our justice system to be turned into a kind of racial categorization where people root for outcome.
KELLY: And that we're seeing that here in some of the reporting today about this case. They mentioned the race of Officer Nero, white, the race of Freddie Gray, black, and they failed to mention the race of the judge who tried the case who is African-American.
DERSHOWITZ: Or the lawyer for the family who is African-American who said the judge came to the right conclusion.
KELLY: That's right.
DERSHOWITZ: Even though his client was killed.
KELLY: But they, you know, we had a guy on the show last night who didn't want to listen to anything about it. And I kept asking what did Officer Nero do, tell me specifically what he did.
And all he kept saying, and a lot of the media today was saying, this is basically the standards need to be changed so we can make it easier to get these cops.
DERSHOWITZ: Well, you can't change proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You can't change better 10 guilty go free than one innocent be wrongly confined. That's what American is all about. And we can't allow racial differences which is serious. Racial problem were serious to distort our criminal justice system.
KELLY: Could you go after Mosby for malicious prosecution?
DERSHOWITZ: Yes. I think this is politically motivated prosecution. I think the voters have to go after her, and I think the voters will because she oversold the case and everybody's disappointed.
The black community's disappointed because she didn't get results and she probably won't get results. Many in the white community disappointed because she overcharged police officers who were doing their duty, but this goes beyond Baltimore.
KELLY: And told the community -- told the community this is -- this is your moment.
DERSHOWITZ: Yes.
KELLY: No, it's not your moment, it is not. I have to ask you while I have you here. On my special last week on Fox broadcast, I interviewed Robert Shapiro speaking for the first time after 20 years about the O.J. case on which you are part of...
(CROSSTALK)
DERSHOWITZ: Great interview. That was a great interview.
KELLY: Thank you. Thank you so much. And he talked about trying on the bloody glove. The dream team and himself. The day before we saw O.J. do it in court. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT SHAPIRO, FORMER O.J. SIMPSON'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I tried the glove on. It was a little bit wide in my palm and a little bit long in my fingers. O.J. Simpson has enormous hands. And I knew that that glove would not fit him.
KELLY: Really?
SHAPIRO: It wouldn't even be close.
KELLY: Did you feel in that moment when you put your hand in the glove that you were trying on the glove of the person who murdered these two people?
SHAPIRO: As you say it now, it is chilling, but I was looking for one thing and one thing only, the size of that glove.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DERSHOWITZ: I was there also when the glove was tried on. I went back with O.J. and remember, he had tried it on with some protective.
And he tried it on afterward without the protective. And it didn't fit. But to show you how bad the prosecution was. Under California law, they could have made O.J. Simpson try it on outside of the presence of the jury before they made the decision to have him try it on in front of the jury, and they were so arrogant they didn't do it.
I was sitting right next to O.J. He walked up to the jury and he said, "it doesn't fit." And that meant he didn't have to testify and be cross examined.
KELLY: Right.
DERSHOWITZ: Because he had testified to that jury in that one moment.
KELLY: So it was a stunning thing to listen to and just to ask him whether he thought he had tried on the glove of a murderer, right?
DERSHOWITZ: It is chilling. It is chilling. You know, you never know if you're a defense attorney, you just never, never know for sure. You have your opinions but you never know for sure.
KELLY: Professor, great to see you.
DERSHOWITZ: Likewise.
KELLY: Thank you, sir.
So, when the Associated Press wrote the bulletin on Officer Nero's acquittal in Baltimore, it said, quote, "Prosecutors failed for the second time in their bid to hold Baltimore police accountable for the arrest and death of Freddie Gray. To hold the police accountable."
Kevin Jackson is a Fox News contributor and executive director of the Blacksphere.net; Andell Brown is a defense and civil rights attorney. Great to see you both. Kevin, is that -- is that the right question, is it that they failed to hold him accountable?
KEVIN JACKSON, THE BLACK SPHERE EXECUTIVE EDITOR: No, I think it's a terrible way to state that. And I think Alan Dershowitz nailed it. He said, you know, now it's no longer about news, it's about setting a narrative that the news wants to -- the verdict that they want -- and the outcome.
And I think this is the perfect example of it in Baltimore. And I think for Nero's case, you know, there was just nothing there, it never should have been a case at all. But we're in a point now in our society where when that outcome is meant to be had and the media's going to make sure that it happens.
KELLY: You know, I look at that, I don't know, and I'm not sure whether accountable is, you know, a problem the way they phrased it. But another news outlet said his acquittal shows how hard it is to convict officers accused of serious crime.
Is that what it shows? It just shows they didn't have the goods here. They did not -- they have nothing against Officer Nero.
ANDELL BROWN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the Nero case was obviously not the strongest case. We have to keep in mind the justice is not about a particular outcome, it's about having a fair and transparent process where we treat everyone equally. That's what justice is about.
KELLY: Did we have that here?
BROWN: And accountability and transparency is the order of the day. I think we had that in this case. The judge looked at the facts. He looked at the law and he came to a conclusion that is legally and factually correct. That's what happened.
KELLY: So, why is it that at the end of matter, Kevin, because, you know, to have reports that -- I mean, Marc Lamont Hill out there yesterday saying this just shows that black lives have no value in America.
JACKSON: Right.
KELLY: But the judge is African-American. I mean, how does it show that?
JACKSON: Right.
KELLY: They had nothing against this cop, nothing.
JACKSON: Right, well, you touched on it earlier. When you said they did not report that the judge was black. They did not report that the family said this was the right verdict for Nero's case. They're not telling you that these cops probably didn't act maliciously.
Did they do something wrong? Perhaps. But do we have to go to that next step every single time and suddenly it becomes racial? And that's the problem in America. And that's why nobody trusts the media anymore because it's no longer about really trying to find the fact, it's a reality show. It's a new reality show that says what's more popular.
KELLY: Andell, I'll give you the last word, Andell.
BROWN: Trust is the central issue here. We saw, the Walter Scott case, the Laquan McDonald case, the Tamir Rice case, the narrative given by the police officers was vastly different than what we saw on video. That's what the community is concerned about.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: That's a problem.
BROWN: We need transparency and accountability so we can get it right.
KELLY: And that there definitely have been some problematic cases. Got to go. Great to see you both. Kevin and Andell, all the best. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: It's not always fun when your job is to report certain stories but instead, you become the story. And tonight, a local sports anchor in San Francisco knows exactly what I mean.
Thanks to an on-air rant involving space jam that has now gone viral. Trace Gallagher has the story in our West Coast newsroom. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Gary Radnich has been a much loved Bay Area sports anchor for decades, not really a huge opinion guy and doesn't appear to be a cantankerous soul but he's certainly looked annoyed when his longtime co-anchor broke the news that LeBron James had been tap to star in the revamp of Space Jam. It turns out Radnich that he was planning to read the same story. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY RADNICH, KRON SPORTS ANCHOR: How long have we been friends?
CATHERINE HEENAN, KRON TV ANCHOR: I didn't know you were going to do it.
RADNICH: Have you ever and I'm going to say this for the smile, ever heard me say right before you came on, there's an irrigation problem in Gilroy?
HEENAN: Well, you'll have to talk to Kasim (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
RADNICH: You never heard me say, oh, it's warm weather today. Never. I stay in my lane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Yes. The anchor there Catherine Heenan tried to blame it on the producer. Don't they all? But Radnich had none of it. Going on to continue his tirade. Play it again?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEENAN: OK. I shouldn't have brought it up.
RADNICH: Yes, it's going to be great. Michael Jordan starred in Space Jam as you earlier reported.
HEENAN: I'm sorry.
RADNICH: All right. Going hard to be mad at Catherine, though, she's good friend of my mom's. There's going to come a time when you have to choose between the love of your mother and your mother's friend and the honor and dignity of crime.
GALLAGHER: Yes. Well, the sports anchor got a lot of pushback and the news anchor got a lot of support from the viewers. Both said it was meant to be funny. That he was just playing around. Didn't really look very funny. On either side of the anchor desk there. Megyn?
KELLY: Radnich. Man up. OK?
GALLAGHER: Yes.
KELLY: It happens. It happens. I'm with her.
GALLAGHER: It happens.
KELLY: Trace, great to see you.
GALLAGHER: You, too.
KELLY: What do you think? @megykelly on Twitter. We'll be back with a fun "Star Wars" late night edition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Hi. So, today, my husband, Doug and I had the pleasure of hearing the New York Philharmonic performed John Williams scores at Lincoln Center from "Jaws" to "Star Wars" and we crossed over to the dark side. Doug is still there. I hope he's OK. Good night.
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