Trump looking for delegate sweep in New York primary

Republican presidential frontrunner hoping for landslide


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 19, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, and happy election day, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Julie Roginsky, Eric Bolling, Dan Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." It is primary day here in the Empire State. And if you noticed, we've taken the show outside today as New Yorkers put their mark on this wild presidential election. Polls close in four hours, 247 delegates are up for grabs in the democratic race; that contest, in a moment. But first, there are 95 delegates at play on the republican side. Donald Trump is hoping for a landslide on his home turf to help get him to that magic number of 1237 to secure the republican nomination. Here are all three candidates ahead of today's big votes.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You going to go out and vote and you're going to make sure all your friends are going to go and vote. And you're going to look back in four years and 12 years and 25 years, and you're going to say -- that's the greatest single vote I've ever cast.

SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because if I'm the nominee, we win the general election. We're beating Hillary in the key swing states. We're beating Hillary with independents. We're beating Hillary with young people.

GOV. JOHN KASICH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're caught in this place where my name has come up, but people still haven't decided. They still haven't decided. Well who is this guy? CBS just released the poll, I beat Hillary Clinton by 12 points and the two other guys lose.


GUILFOYLE: All right, all the delegates are at stake here in the Empire State, all of the candidates hoping to be the one to move ahead in this important crucial moment in the fight for the republican nomination. Let's take it around outside. How are you guys enjoying the weather here?



DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Very good. I know what Dorothy feels like.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly, exactly. All right, so Bolling, take us through the numbers here, the number of delegates at play for the GOP side.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So 95, clearly, we've been talking about that, but it breaks down that each of the districts gets three delegates and if anyone gets 50 percent of the vote in that specific district, they get all three delegates. If they don't, it splits up. So thereby Ted Cruz is still wants to play here. He still wants to do well here and John Kasich does. If you win the state you get, I don't know 17 or so total delegates. The way it looks in some of the polling, some of the experts have said, a win for Donald Trump will be anything above say 65 or 70 delegates. A win for Ted Cruz would be 10 to 15 delegates. And a win -- I'm sorry, with the John Kasich, because he's in second would be 10 to 15, and Ted Cruz, if he gets 10 that would be a good number for him. So add those to where they already are, the bottom line is next week is big, a big week, but it looks like on the GOP side, it's going to go down to June 7, any way you slice it.

GUILFOYLE: Take it all the way through. It's going to be a wild summer. Dana.


GUILFOYLE: . how do you see today shaping up.

PERINO: Eric is going to be wearing ties every Tuesday for the next.

BOLLING: That's right.

PERINO: . several weeks. I think that it's likely that Donald Trump is going to win tonight. And then so you have the three republicans all won their states, right? Kasich in Ohio, Ted Cruz in Texas and Donald Trump in New York, and I've -- the way I think about Donald Trump in New York is that he has 100 percent name I.D. all throughout the country. But the people of New York know him personally. And they are -- he is their guy, and so I expect him to do really well tonight. But it could be that at least in a couple of the congressional districts that Kasich or Cruz is able to keep Donald Trump below 50 percent and pick up a couple of delegates. But next week also it becomes very important, and all of those New England states that are going to vote next Tuesday.

GUILFOYLE: And also in terms of momentum, Greg, going forward is all eyes right now on New York to see how Donald Trump will perform. The expectation level is very high here for him.

GUTFELD: A lot of things are very high here, Kimberly.


GUILFOYLE: Even you, today (inaudible).

GUTFELD: I'm getting a second-hand high from being outside. By the way, I love the fact that we're on location for this primary. We moved a hundred feet from our studio.


GUTFELD: Officially we're -- this is a travel day. I've charged all my food on expenses.


GUILFOYLE: Good point.

GUTFELD: And I even have a hotel room and I live in the city. So if anybody is free -- no. But the thing is --


GUTFELD: This is, yeah. This is Trump's town. He's like, you know, what he is? He's like a major league pitcher at a carnival dunk tank. He should just walk up and just soak everyone. Meanwhile, Ted Cruz, New York to him is like a Walmart after Black Friday. There's nothing left for him but like a single sock and a training bra.


GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And a leftover remote control.


GUILFOYLE: So what about also now you know we've got the republicans all vying for it. What do you think the democrats are thinking about the Empire State and how it's going to shape up?

ROGINSKY: Well, again, Bernie Sanders claims he could do very well here, Kimberly. I think he's probably smoking a little of what Greg said he smokes at, smelled outside here today. Hillary is going to do very well tonight. The question is can she hold him to double digits or not? She needs to do well with more or above 10 percent or better in order to maintain expectations for herself. But I keep saying, you know, Bernie Sanders keeps talking on momentum. It's very nice, but we all know in campaigns, momentum isn't what matters. Math is what matters. And the reality is he's going to go from here to places like Maryland to places like New Jersey, Eric's home state, to places like California, which are a lot more diverse, and traditionally, places that he has not done as well in. Demographically, New York is another good example of that. So Bernie Sanders has to tremendously exceed expectations here tonight. You'll notice he's not in New York; he's already in Erie, Pennsylvania, campaigning. I think New York in his rear-view mirror, because, you know, he's not gonna do well here tonight.

GUILFOYLE: So in terms of the numbers, Eric, you think that Sanders has kind of seen the writing on the wall, he's got to move forward with the campaign because --

BOLLING: Bernie is all about a momentum, a movement, becoming a left-wing liberal hero of the left.


BOLLING: He's not going to get the numbers. He is going to end up -- he can't lose over the next two weeks, but it -- by June 7th again. She has got it locked up. He can't get it. But he can be the one that says, "I was a spoiler. I made it rough on Hillary Clinton. I'm your hero." And he will have a big footprint going forward on the democrat side for a long time.

GUILFOYLE: So Dana, what do you think in terms of the role that he will have in the -- with the party?


GUILFOYLE: And of course, you know, at the convention.

PERINO: I'm glad you asked that because I was -- I was fascinated this morning to read that in 2008, Hillary Clinton won her state, this -- her home state, adopted home state by 17 points. She's not going to do that today. And so if you think about how the Democratic Party has changed in just eight years, and how far left it has moved that Bernie Sanders can still be giving her a real run for her money. And the other thing about momentum, it's about the money as well. Campaigns usually die because they run out of money. He is -- Bernie Sanders is not in danger of running out of money any time soon. They run a very lean machine, but he's also been able to tap into a donor network all across the country where they -- will donate $27 here, even $3 sometimes. That's a lot of people that are actually turning out to vote. Now, will the youth vote that is turned out for him so far, be able to, at least squash Hillary Clinton's dreams here in New York? I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you wonder though if they -- because they have skin in the game and that they've made a capital investment in Bernie, some of that they believe in. But yeah, he's kind of attained folklore status. He's like the hero of the left. But also, if I'm Hillary Clinton, I want to make sure going forward. Even if she wins and secures the nomination, boy, would she want to get a hold of Bernie's rolodex and donor list to be able to help get some momentum for her going forward, Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, the interesting thing is whenever you hear somebody saying they're looking ahead, that means they've lost.


GUTFELD: That's the translation. Bernie is like half socialist, half zombie, you know. Wherever Hillary goes, he's in the rear-view mirror. He's like Yul Brynner in "Westworld." She's going, "will he stop following me." And everybody is getting serious now. You're seeing Trump do a shake-up on his staff. You see Cruz running to Pennsylvania like steal some delegates. And you got Bernie; he's trimming the ear hair.

BOLLING: And so, but very interesting, he's --

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

BOLLING: He's actually driving that bus from behind.


BOLLING: She's winning, but it is all -- it's coming down to when does Bernie turn and say, all right all you followers, I have a great -- from 27,000 people showed here the other night.


BOLLING: All of you people, it's time to focus on Hillary Clinton, the democrat who wants -- you want to be the republican.

ROGINSKY: But here's --

BOLLING: So he's holding the cards.

ROGINSKY: But here's the problem, and we noticed this with the Trump kids, we know, we see this again today. How many of those people thought about registering to vote democratic by October 15th of last year? And that's the difficulty for a lot of people in this movement. This New York makes it impossible, impossible to vote on both sides.

PERINO: I think on the republican side.

BOLLING: Well, but yeah --



BOLLING: But not just New York, though, in general.


BOLLING: . when Bernie decides to say, "OK, I can't win, I don't have the path to delegate-wise to the nomination, so put your support behind Hillary."


BOLLING: In the meantime, he's still beating up on her. So --


BOLLING: It's really he has a lot of power.


GUTFELD: Trump's running mate. If Bernie becomes Trump's running mate, you get both of the rebels to rebel sides together.

PERINO: Remember in Michigan.

ROGINSKY: The outsider, though.

PERINO: . they would number one and to choice.


PERINO: . of voters going in -- proper standards.

GUILFOYLE: It is. And a lot of people do. That like one, they like the other. They're trying to decide. But let's also talk about somebody else on the GOP side, and that is John Kasich, appears to be getting tired of answering questions about why he's still in the race. Check out this exchange with a reporter yesterday.


KASICH: Listen, at the end of the day I think the Republican Party wants to pick somebody who actually can win in the fall.


KASICH: Can I finish?

SEVASTOPULO: If you answer the question.

KASICH: I'm answering might the question the way I want to answer it. You want to answer it?

SEVASTOPULO: No, you're the candidate.

KASICH: Here, let me hold that. Let me ask you, what do you think?



PERINO: I thought that was funny.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't think it's a problem. Do you, Dana?

PERINO: No, I thought it was funny.

GUILFOYLE: It's kind of clever.

PERINO: Especially when you're in a scrum like that and reporters are bearing down on you and everyone is asking you, why are you, why are you still on the race, you're such a loser. I mean at some point you -- I know it's our little personality. I don't mind.

GUTFELD: That's the literal Snapchat.


GUTFELD: He always said he was good at it. He just did a Snapchat.

GUILFOYLE: Well, and also if he's sticking up for himself, and you might get tired of it, because he's trying to run a series of campaign and he is in second place in New York.

PERINO: He's right about the polling, but -- in head-to-head match-ups in the polling that exists today, he's the one that can beat Hillary Clinton. So he's trying to -- he was looking around at the group saying, "Why doesn't anybody look at me?" But --

GUILFOYLE: He's like they can smell insult GOP.

PERINO: Guess who beats all of them head to head? Remember the Fox News poll last week? It was Bernie Sanders can beat all of them if the election were held today.

BOLLING: You know what interesting about --

GUILFOYLE: Aye, aye, aye.

BOLLING: Mitt Romney today said, "Hey, you republicans, if Ted Cruz and John Kasich both stay in the race, you're basically handing the nomination over to Donald Trump." And he suggests, "I guess, Kasich getting out."

PERINO: I thought Romney said that and I would imagine the Kasich team was thinking, why don't you butt out, buddy?



PERINO: But they might not say that.

BOLLING: That should help.

ROGINSKY: What's interesting about Kasich is for all of these months he's been trying to be the gentler, kinder John Kasich. It's actually not in his nature to be that guy, he's an ornery guy and it's finally starting to come out --

BOLLING: Oh, he's a nice guy.


BOLLING: John Kasich?

ROGINSKY: He's a little bit of an ornery guy.

BOLLING: He is a nice guy.

GUTFELD: He could be cranky.

ROGINSKY: He's a nice guy -- he's cranky.

GUTFELD: He's cranky. He's a cranky guy. He's cranky like --

BOLLING: I already know. He's cranky, he's like you sometimes.

GUTFELD: It's almost like he's waking up from a nap.

ROGINSKY: So imagine --


GUILFOYLE: Hugely popular in Ohio, he's done very well there.


GUILFOYLE: And he has a tremendous amount of experience and we have points to the general election and win. He's like, "I'm the guy, come check me out."

PERINO: He could do better in New York than people think.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, let's see.

ROGINSKY: I agree with that.

GUILFOYLE: That's why it's so exciting. Come on, right?

BOLLING: The only (inaudible) need a piece of pizza, that'll be --

GUILFOYLE: We love it.


GUILFOYLE: Much more to come on this primary day in New York City. Ahead, Spike Lee and some other celebrities have team up to get America's voters to wake up. But maybe they should go back to bed, instead.



GUTFELD: Now if you want to find out the one candidate most likely to ruin a country, find out who Spike Lee supports and treat him he's like Godzilla with a cold sore and run screaming. Here's Spike's ad for Bernie Sanders, starring other big lefties:



SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS: So many of our citizens can't get an education. And if they do, they end up paying their student loans for the rest of their lives. Education is a right, not a privilege.

LINDA SARSOUR, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Instead of schools, they build prisons for profit and fill them to the brim with more people than any other society in history. We must disrupt the school-to-prison pipeline, reform our criminal justice system.

ROSARIO DAWSON, ACTRESS: From Strong Island to Staten Island, Queens to the Boogie Down, BK, Manhattan.


DAWSON: We need you, New Yorkers. Don't be just liking us online; you've got to get in line. It's time to vote, show up, represent.


GUTFELD: Now obviously, lefties love Bernie, because he's the lefty-ist. He makes Che look like Cheney.


GUTFELD: But political allegiances for celebrities are also status markers. To say you're for Bernie is like saying you only wear hemp underwear or eat gluten-free, vegan sushi. It's telling your dinner guests that your new dining table is really a discarded barn door shipped all the way from Peru.


GUTFELD: Yes, it's recycled, but everyone knows it still cost you a fortune.


GUTFELD: Just like Sanders. He's the distressed vintage stool that costs more than your car. Sure he's far from new, but you still pay a heavy price for his bad ideas. That's because leftist ideas only drain you of wealth. Having no idea of how to pay for things, it's all take and never create.

GUILFOYLE: That's true.

GUTFELD: Supporting Bernie is that expensive act of authenticity, only rich people can afford. The stars can shout for free everything and no more jails, but it's only them who can endure the consequences. They don't live in the high crime areas and their income makes higher taxes a nonissue.

Supporting Bernie may seem like you're keeping it real, but it's about as organic as a spray tan and just another blast from the past that leaves nothing for your future.


GUILFOYLE: All good.

GUTFELD: Thanks.

GUTFELD: Just hoping I wasn't going to sneeze. All right, Julie -- let's face it.


GUTFELD: A vote for Bernie Sanders is kind of like a status vote among the left like, "I'm more progressive than you are, you Hillary supporter."

GUILFOYLE: Oh, it's true.

ROGINSKY: I think it's a status vote for a lot of people on campuses. I think I actually have that reclaim for the table by the way, which completely establishes my streak with the leftist community.


ROGINSKY: He would say, I thought that was kind of creepy.


ROGINSKY: And I liked his old ad. Remember the America ad that he did in Iowa, I thought it was the best political ad I'd ever seen on either side. This ad I thought was a little -- I want to say (inaudible), but I thought it was a little, little too (inaudible). That was a little creepy.

GUTFELD: Propaganda.

ROGINSKY: Yeah, a little too propaganda. Not that I'm supporting, but he start e-mailing me on the democratic side. I'm not comparing Spike Lee to Lenni Riefenstahl. I just like --


ROGINSKY: I just thought it was a little, little -- it was a little too propagandy and I do ads for a living and I think you need a little bit more music. And cut it down by about -- I don't know, 20 million hours. It was six minutes long. It was too long.

GUTFELD: It had Shaun King in there, that's a guy who plagiarized his identity and words. Eric, what do, what do you think?

BOLLING: I actually thought it was effective.


BOLLING: I mean, and I get what you say it's propaganda.


BOLLING: But that's what Bernie Sanders is.


BOLLING: I think the real reason there's such a movement for Bernie Sanders right now is because he skated below the radar for so long, because no one thought he had a chance and they hadn't really dug deep into what his policies are.


BOLLING: His higher taxation. His wanting to give everyone free -- everything free, starting from health care, to education -- it's free tuition, to transfer more payments. So he's never been like the front- runner.


BOLLING: . and he's never been the one you were worried about. So he didn't get the media scrutiny. They don't do it very well on the left, anyway.


BOLLING: But, so he doesn't get the -- certainly doesn't get the scrutiny that Trump, Cruz and Kasich get.

GUTFELD: Yeah. You know Kimberly, he's like the underdog.


GUTFELD: He's like Herbie the love bug. Everybody wants to root for him and it's something cool to be on a team where he's the underdog.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. He does have that charm, and appeal, and of course, like I said, he kind of like has folklore status. He's great with the whole "Saturday Night Live" thing, so he's already kind of had like an imprint, and an imbed when people think about him, well he's kind of like this charming, easy-going, funny guy. He doesn't seem that dangerous or that harmful, right?


GUILFOYLE: With disarming, because when you think about it, like oh, he sounds like he's for the right thing, or even the pope said hello to him. He wants to help people. He's for social justice. But at the same time, everything has a price tag.


GUILFOYLE: So when you get that reclaimed wood from Peru, the freight charge will destroy you.


GUILFOYLE: OK? The table a dollar, the freight charge is $10,000. So you really have to kind of like do the math and not to be fooled for it. And by the way, I don't know why haters got to hate, Greg, but I heart the spray tan.


GUILFOYLE: Feast your eyes on this.

PERINO: I knew you want.


GUTFELD: You know, Dana, we -- you live in New York, we live in New York, and we assure this status symbols. Like if you're at a cocktail party, somebody finds out you're not a democrat, you're not for Sanders, you lose points. So is this really, it's all about getting points at parties.

PERINO: It's the hipster vote.


PERINO: Right? So it's like you could check the box off. I do think it's kind of funny that the democrats are fighting over whose celebrities are better.


PERINO: That my celebrity is better than yours. Celebrities are gonna be like a big "Westside Story" in Hollywood where they gonna get on side of the highway --

GUTFELD: Do they help? Do they help?

PERINO: I don't think that celebrity endorsements help that much. I so think it helps when you like have a crowd, and it could does get you media attention. But, no, I don't think it helps that much.

BOLLING: I have a wide range of celebrities out. You had, you know, the actors. But then you also had the activists. You know Erica Garner.


BOLLING: Shaun King.

GUTFELD: Shaun King?

PERINO: Do you think Bernie Sanders knows any of those people.

GUTFELD: I was embarrassing -- what?

PERINO: Do you think Bernie Sanders knows any of those people.

GUTFELD: He probably does. He's seen them around. But you know, Shaun King, an embarrassment. I mean, how could you -- that has to hurt you. If you find out Shaun King is voting for Sanders, you can't vote for Sanders, because Shaun King is a fraud, a fraud.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but Kasich has Schwarzenegger, like that.

GUTFELD: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: I like that.

GUTFELD: And Trump has got Scott Baio.


GUILFOYLE: There you go.

GUTFELD: You cannot, not love Scott Baio.

ROGINSKY: That's true. You've got Charles -- if you have "Charles in Charge," what still you have?

GUTFELD: Oh, he was also Chucky (ph).

ROGINSKY: He was. But I prefer --


ROGINSKY: Ever heard of singing the "Charles in Charge"

PERINO: I can sing that song.

GUTFELD: That's the guy who was older than you.

PERINO: I play that song in my sleep.

ROGINSKY: Of course you are.

GUTFELD: Yes, Nicole Eggert -- oh. Anyway --

PERINO: You tune in your pop culture.


PERINO: . thing.

GUTFELD: Well, as similar of watch TV instead of reading.


GUTFELD: . books. What are books, anyway, but just TV without images -- gross. All right --

GUILFOYLE: Stop writing them.


GUTFELD: That hurts deeply. I'm going to write a book about you.


GUTFELD: Everything sordid. All right -- that's what it will be called, everything sordid with the story of Kimberly Guilfoyle. All right, two America's top election experts are about to join us for the first time together on "The Five." yes, it's Scott Baio and John Stamos.


GUTFELD: No, it's not. They need to find out.


PERINO: Welcome back to "The Five" on this primary day here in New York. You're about to see something you've never seen on this show before. Campaign Carl and Election Ed have both appeared on "The Five" and they'd never joined us together, in the flesh, until now. It's a joy to have you here.


PERINO: Carl, you've been with the republicans, traveling all around, and now you're in New York. What do you think is going to happen tonight?

CARL CAMERON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not a question that Trump is going to win. Kasich and Cruz have both acknowledged that. The margin of victory is what matters. And the margin of victory will determine how many delegates he gets. The Trump campaign says, "We'd like to get 80, maybe 85 delegates." They don't think they're going to be able to sweep it. They'd love to, obviously. And it's complicated because you got to win all those 27 congressional delegates by more than 50 percent in order to get 81 of the delegates. And then if you get 50 percent, let's why do you get the other 14. It sounds all very complicated, and it is complicated for the Trump campaign, because they're just now getting the kind of people on the campaign team that know how to work this kind of a delegate morass.

PERINO: And what about the democrats, they have more delegates at stake, 237?

HENRY: Two hundred and forty-seven.

PERINO: Oh, 40.

HENRY: And the bottom line is Bernie Sanders maybe took a double-digit, you know, deficit and turned into single digits, maybe with these big rallies, we'll see if the folks turn out for him. But the bottom line is he's going to play the expectations game again, and if he loses by just single digits he's gonna try to spin it as a victory. But he's running out of time to keep saying there's a moral victory. I beat the expectations game. He has to not just win New York; he has to win it big, because it's all proportional, as you know, for the democrats. So it's different than the republicans. And so even if Hillary Clinton were to lose tonight by a few points, she's basically going to get the same number of delegates. So her lead of a few hundred delegates, it's just not going to change.

PERINO: So the momentum protects the front-runner.

HENRY: The momentum is good for Sanders. You know, 8 out 9 -- of the last - -

PERINO: But the system protects the front-runner -- yeah.

HENRY: But the system is protecting Hillary Clinton. Especially those super delegates, it's 15 percent of the entire take. So no matter what happens in these states, she's got the party loses.

PERINO: All right, let's take it around, KG.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, it sounds kind of like, you know, walking the tight wire, you've got the safety net, no matter what for Hillary Clinton, right? Because she's got that -- she's for delegate padding under there.

CAMERON: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and she really does.


GUILFOYLE: The big mattress.


HENRY: Well, look --

GUILFOYLE: The super delegates.

HENRY: You know, and we can play --

GUTFELD: (inaudible).


HENRY: And if we play expectations game, sure. For Hillary Clinton to lose her adopted home state, the media narrative would be so bad --

PERINO: Oh, boy.

HENRY: Forget about it. But on the other hand --

PERINO: I'll stay up all night talking about it.


GUTFELD: You mean you'll be in bed by 10:00?



CAMERON: There's a big irony to this because, while the system is supposed to protect the front-runner on the democratic side, it was exactly the same concoction on the republican side. Back after the 2012 Romney loss, the RNC establishment got together and they wrote rules that were supposed to make it easier for whoever broke away to win the nomination without being derailed. And now it's that very establishment that created the plan that's now trying to turn it inside out.

HENRY: Oh, we don't want that guy.

CAMERON: . to stop the front-runner because it happens to be Trump.

HENRY: Yeah.

PERINO: Julie.

ROGINSKY: Well, my question for you is this, though, because Trump is struggling upstate. He's done very well here downstate. But is it possible for him to actually come incredibly -- I mean, it's not possible for Kasich to seem to win any congressional districts upstate. But it is possible for Trump to do, I don't know, 40 percent if not less?

CAMERON: Sure. Kasich --

ROGINSKY: In some places upstate?

CAMERON: Kasich figures that he -- if he -- they did target.


CAMERON: . the specific congressional districts that they figured would be friendly, and they think that it's possible for him to win maybe 10, maybe a dozen delegates.


CAMERON: To which still keeps Trump in his target area of 80-85. But it shows that Trump can be beaten even in his home state, or at least held beneath 50 percent.

PERINO: I can't see my co-host, Eric Bolling, but I'm gonna ask you if you have question.

BOLLING: Yeah, very quick one for Carl in one second. Ed, this is so, so, so important. You've travel with the Clinton campaign for what, nine months now?

HENRY: A year, April.

BOLLING: Be honest, have you ever seen her pull hot sauce out of her bag?

HENRY: No, but I know from her staff --


HENRY: Before this interview --


HENRY: I never get close to her purse, why would I be close to her purse?

BOLLING: Well, I don't know. I heard --

HENRY: That's actually a little weird, though.

PERINO: Good answer.


HENRY: Thank you.

PERINO: Good answer.


HENRY: I don't get close to a woman's purse.

GUILFOYLE: You're looking for the server.

BOLLING: Seen hot sauce coming out of her bag --

HENRY: I have previously heard her say that when she has a cold, if you have jalapenos and hot sauce, it helps you.

BOLLING: I don't know if that's true.

HENRY: Well, they say it's true.

BOLLING: Can I asks Carl--

GUILFOYLE: Home remedy.

BOLLING: Carl, tell us about the rules. Who is Trump freaking out about the rules, committee and the rule changes?

CAMERON: Yeah. There's no question about it. He hired Paul Manafort, a guy who was involved in the contested convention between Reagan and Gerald Ford 40 years ago. He's hiring additional staff, election lawyers getting prepared for it. There has been a significant shake-up in the campaign. The campaign manager, Cory Lewandowski now has to get authorization for a lot of decisions he was making unilaterally not too long ago. And there's a question is to whether or not bringing in all of these Washington veterans, does something to tarnish Trump's I'm an outsider, I'm authentic and tell it like it is. And he's in danger if he were to start acting like one. Whether that means prepared speeches, limiting his availability to the media, as opposed to just tweeting (inaudible) in the middle of the night and doing phone in calls every talk show in the morning, you could possibly reach. That would change the type of candidate he is. And there is clearly a push to do that among some of the people he brought in.

PERINO: And now, let's see.


PERINO: You have him in person.

GUTFELD: I know, both of them. It's good to see you guys and I appreciate you guys sharing the pull-out in my apartment. It will be a little tight, but anyway --


PERINO: Saving money, though.

GUTFELD: It's what we do here at FOX.

There are basically more vegans in Dallas than there are Republicans in New York. What do you think the turn-out is going to be tonight and how will that -- what will that tell us about November?

HENRY: Republican first?

CAMERON: Republicans are way ahead in turnout all over the place. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 percent over the last 2012 turn-out for the primaries, so it's big.

And Trump is a New Yorker. He's got huge popularity here. People all across the country have been familiar with him before he was a candidate, because of his career in reality television and just in the American zeitgeist. So he's expecting to break records here for turnout, too, and he needs to. The question, again, is just the margin. He'll probably get more votes than Hillary Clinton, too.

HENRY: Democrats excited, in large part because of Bernie Sanders getting the young people involved. But two problems he could have tonight. No. 1, he had this rally a few days ago in NYU, 27,000 people. I was there in Washington Square Park. How many of those NYU students are actually registered to vote, A, and B, registered to vote here?

They may still be registered where their parents reside, in Pennsylvania, California.

B, this is not an open primary. So in New Hampshire when Sanders won by huge double digits, it was not just Democrats. It was independents coming in. Independents can't come in here, that's a problem for him tonight.

BOLLING: One more question.

PERINO: You don't ask any other questions?

HENRY: That's it.

BOLLING: Crooked Hillary, did she here?

HENRY: I refer to her as former secretary of state.

BOLLING: Not you. But has she heard it? Is she hearing it?

HENRY: I think she heard it, and George Stephanopoulos reminded her on Sunday, and she said, "I'm not going to pay attention to that." She's going to have to pay attention to that. If Trump is the nominee and she's the nominee, this clash is going to be epic.

PERINO: Can I ask a last question based on the turnout? If the Republican turnout in New York is, as Carl was discussing, does that scare the Democrats going forward in November? Because that has been replicated all throughout in all the states so far?

HENRY: They insist that they're not worried about these numbers, I think the Democrats are banking on the fact that the demographics, big picture in a general election, are still on their side. African-American voters, Hispanics.

And look, if Donald Trump makes some of the changes that Carl is talking about, maybe he can do better with female voters. Right now he's cratered with female voters in a broader general electorate. He has a lot of work to do.

PERINO: All right. That is it. Thanks for joining us.

HENRY: We're not usually supposed to be in the same place.

PERINO: I know. It's a continuity.

CAMERON: I'm glad we got separation between us. It would have been just too weird.

PERINO: Next time we're going to make you arm wrestle.

HENRY: You can't cross them.

PERINO: All right. Ahead, President Obama pushes back on a bill to let 9/11 families sue Saudi Arabia for ties to the attack before heading to the country amid the firestorm. Why he's signaling he won't sign it if it gets to his desk. That's next.


BOLLING: Did Saudi Arabia's government help the 9/11 hijackers carry out the attacks? The answer could lie in the 28 pages that remain classified from the 9/11 Commission's report of more than a decade ago. Does President Obama know the answer?


CHARLIE ROSE, PBS: The 28 pages of the 9/11 report, have you read it?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I have a sense of what's in there. But this is -- a process, which we generally deal with through the intelligence community.

And Jim Clapper, our director of national intelligence, has been going through to make sure that whatever it is that is released, is not going to compromise some major national security interests of the United States.

There are just reams of intelligence that are coming through constantly. Some of them are raw and not tested. Some of them are...

ROSE: And some of them may be in the 28 pages.

OBAMA: And some of them may be in the 28 pages. I don't know.


BOLLING: It's strange the president wouldn't have read those pages. He's on his way to Saudi Arabia right now after the kingdom threatened to hurt our economy if Congress passes a bill to allow 9/11 families the right to sue their country. Many Democrats back the legislation, but Obama is indicating he'll veto it if it gets to him.


OBAMA: This is not just a bilateral U.S./Saudi issue. This is a matter of how, generally, the United States approaches our interactions with other countries. If we open up the possibility that individuals in the United States can routinely start suing other governments, then we are also opening up the United States to being continually sued by individuals in other countries.


BOLLING: All right. A lot of issues here, Dana, but first, let's start with this. Shouldn't President Obama have read those 28 pages?

PERINO: This -- this is not a new issue. This was even an issue during the Bush administration. It was probably one of the first things I would have asked to read if I were the president.

And I defend the president's right to make a decision about the veto. But I do think that it is negligent not to read the 28 pages.

Obviously, this is something that is of great interest to the families, the 9/11 families at least. It's a subject of a lot of consternation by the Saudis. You're headed to the region. It's 28 pages. It shouldn't be hard to read. I think it's negligent.

BOLLING: Not only that, Greg, he got -- President Obama gave an interview to the Atlantic magazine where he said the Saudis need to learn how to share the neighborhood with the Iranians.

GUTFELD: Yes. That, you, that last word -- you know what could be in that? It may not be about the Saudis; maybe about Iran. And the fact is, we just made a deal with Iran. And if there's something in there that really implicates Iran in 9/11, then Obama just looks like he took the 9/11 -- the people who caused 9/11 to the prom. I mean, we just made this big deal.

The other thing is logic about, you know, they could do it to us. You can use that same logic with war. "We better not go to war, because they'll go to war with us." It doesn't make any sense.

BOLLING: Let me throw One More Thing at you, K.G. WE -- the Saudis, they buy a lot of our military equipment. We buy a lot of their oil. This is about a deal. He's -- is he protecting that relationship, that economic relationship at all costs, including the 9/11 families?

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's why you have to look at what's right morally and ethically, to say is the ends justifying the means? Is the financial relationship and benefit that could be for the United States worth sacrificing truth and honesty and transparency for the victims of 9/11 and their families?

Perhaps this is something that the president should consider. He's trying to say, "Look, but then we're making ourselves open for other people to sue us." But if they are, in fact, involved and they have people who are directly involved with 9/11, then the truth should be known, and there should be repercussions.

BOLLING: So the president is -- seems like he's concerned about the way the kingdom sees us in the relationship they have with us. Should he be this concerned? Or should he go a little harder?

ROGINSKY: No, I think he's wrong about this. I suspect he has either read what's in there or, as he alluded, it was probably explained to him. He knows exactly what's in there. I suspect it's the fact that the Saudis or some element of the Saudi government was implicated or had a relationship with these terrorists, most of whom were Saudi.

And this continual policy on behalf of all administrations -- Democrat, Republican, including this one -- to protect our relationship with the Saudis, who export Wahhabism, export terrorism as much as the Iranians do. But for some reason, we keep protecting the Saudis, our great allies in the Middle East, despite all the things that they do around the world, to put Americans in danger.

I think he's absolutely wrong about this. I think the 9/11 families deserve to know what's in there. And I agree absolutely with Senator Schumer: Republicans on both sides of the aisle, Democrats, who think that the president is wrong on this. And I agree with that.

GUTFELD: Couldn't it be more about Iran than the Saudis?

PERINO: I don't think so.

GUTFELD: Really?

BOLLING: Can I throw this out there? I don't know the answer to this. Can't we just -- or can't we just expose what these 28 pages are? Without allowing the families to sue foreign countries? I mean, there are...

GUILFOYLE: That's a compromise position, then. So they will release it, and -- I mean, the truth should come out; and they should be able to explore the opportunity to be able to sue. I mean, with allies like that, who needs enemies?

BOLLING: You open it up to being able to sue any country, not just the Saudis then.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but if somebody has committed crimes or has committed acts of terrorism and sponsored terrorism against the United States, then why shouldn't they be held accountable?

BOLLING: There -- there's a counter argument. There is a counter argument.

PERINO: I think that it is possible that it was dangerous to release the 28 pages at one time.


PERINO: Because of possible sources and methods. And you have human lives at stake and possibly American lives at stake.

You also have intelligence threads that you've gleaned from that. Have those been exhausted at this point, 16 years later, 15 years later? Possibly. And if that's the case, then I think at least President Obama should read the material and be able then to say on his own -- I mean, he's the lawyer. He's the lawyer.

BOLLING: He doesn't have time. There's a lot of golfing.

The other thing, too, is...

PERINO: It's a long flight. You could read it on the plane.

GUTFELD: He's probably thinking, what's worse than Saudi Arabia? Whatever replaces it. The back of his head, he's learned a lesson after Libya. It's like, if you want to see something worse, see what replaces a really bad regime. It's something worse.

BOLLING: Final thought.

ROGINSKY: Well, I've got to tell you, Dana, I absolutely agree with everything you said. But Kimberly, I also agree with everything you said, which is the bottom line is, how long are you going to protect these people? How long are we going to protect them?

BOLLING: You agree with something Greg and I said?


ROGINSKY: You're 100 percent wrong about Chachi. "Charles in Charge" was a much better show.

But definitely, absolutely, you know, the American people deserve to know. The people who lost families on 9/11 deserve to know if the Saudis were implicated. And I believe those 28 pages will give them an answer.

BOLLING: I totally agree. We all have friends.

PERINO: You could brief those, you could brief the families' lawyers on the 28 pages if you felt that they shouldn't be released to the public. They could be briefed.

BOLLING: You could also put a date certain: four -- three years down the road we will -- we will release these 28 pages. And anyone who's in harm's way, you know, the Intelligence Department can get them out of the way.

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's the first step. You can't -- you have to examine and do that analysis first. Dana said whether there's still assets that could be compromised, national security interests.

Once you have cleared that, this is no longer a threat, then you've removed one of the road blocks to be able to release the information all of it that's contained in there, and it goes to steps two and three.

BOLLING: Getting wrapped next. Hear Hillary Clinton essentially admit she was pandering to black voters during an interview in New York yesterday. "The Five" returns in a minute.


ROGINSKY: Was Hillary Clinton attempting to score points with black voters before today's primary in New York with this answer on a hip hop radio show?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's something that you always carry with you?






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You getting information right now? Hot sauce in my bag swag?

CLINTON: Hot sauce.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to know, people are going to see this and say, OK, she's pandering to black people.

CLINTON: OK. Is it working?


ROGINSKY: She kind of admitted it, and Donald Trump hit her on it.


STEVE DOOCY, CO-HOST, "FOX & FRIENDS": Is that an authentic answer, Donald Trump?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): No, it's the same thing that she always does. She carries hot sauce like I carry hot sauce. She's -- it just -- I don't know. It's just so phony and so pandering and so -- terrible.


ROGINSKY: All right, Eric. I know you're up -- what are you on the Trump talking points, already calling her crooked? Listen, I know you're up in arms about this. Back in 2008, a staffer admitted that she always had habanero -- whatever they're called -- with her. Always had them. What's the issue.

BOLLING: I don't know. We just had Ed Henry, who's been with her for a year.

ROGINSKY: He never went through her purse? Well...

BOLLING: Not seen hot sauce on something. Just saying.

ROGINSKY: He never went through her purse.

Dana, is this much ado about nothing? A little bit...


PERINO: I say -- I like green tabasco. Am I pandering to anybody? I also like to think -- I think it was cute. I don't see any problem with it.

ROGINSKY: Yes. I also -- maybe I'm naive, but Kimberly, I've never heard of hot sauce -- hot sauce being a thing that panders to the black community. I didn't know that was -- that was a thing.

GUILFOYLE: So you came to the Puerto Rican woman.

ROGINSKY: I told you I'd come back to you.

GUILFOYLE: I know, exactly. It all comes back here.

I think she was trying to be humorous and have some personality. And, you know, she's, like, on the cool, popular radio show and trying to connect with people and be warm, be spicy, be saucy. I don't know if it worked for her. People are not. I mean, she's still never going to be as, like, hip and cool as Bernie. This is the problem.

ROGINSKY: Isn't that the problem, Greg, that you have somebody who's like a grandma trying to be really cool with, like. the cool kids and it's not really working?

GUTFELD: I honestly -- as much as I'd love to hit her on this, I can't. Because she had -- she had hot sauce back in the '90s in the White House. She loves her hot sauce and her peppers; she's talked about it.

And at least you know, her problem is, she sounds like she's pandering even when she telling the truth. That's her curse. But everybody panders. At least the object that she holds she actually uses, unlike some other people who pander.

ROGINSKY: I don't even know what that means.

GUILFOYLE: That is really weird. Right.

GUTFELD: Bibles.


PERINO: Bibles.


GUTFELD: There's a lot of pandering with the evangelicals, and we don't seem to mind that.

GUILFOYLE: Well, get on that. Good point.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

ROGINSKY: Well, let's...

GUILFOYLE: Excellent reporting.

ROGINSKY: I think this is -- yes, let me toss to the sound bite, because I don't know where this is going with you and the Bible.


CLINTON: I played down -- I did win, but you know, I didn't rub it in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it true Steve Harvey has been your inspiration all these years for the pants suits?

Steve Harvey?

CLINTON: I think Steve looks pretty sharp.

I went to Michelle Obama's birthday party, and Beyonce performed. It was so amazing. I went to her for the Children's Defense Fund, and that was started by one of my mentors and great friends, a woman named Marion Wright Edelman, who was the first African-American woman to pass the Mississippi bar. A friend of Dr. King's.

White people have to recognize there is systemic racism.


ROGINSKY: Dana, I know you have a lot to say about this.

PERINO: This is what I want to say: she doesn't need to pander to the African-Americans.


PERINO: Because she wins that vote by, like, 91 percent. So...

GUILFOYLE: She's got that on lock.

PERINO: If there's any pandering that needs to be done, it's by Bernie Sanders.

ROGINSKY: Well, I feel like we also kind of know her, right?


ROGINSKY: So I don't understand where this is all coming from, this whole notion...

BOLLING: From the black community. Not from -- certainly not from us and not from me, not from Trump. This -- there was a big out-roar -- uproar amongst the black community, saying, "I can't believe. I'm done with her."

ROGINSKY: Over this?

BOLLING: Over this. Yes.

ROGINSKY: Over this?


ROGINSKY: Wait, I'm sorry.

BOLLING: We were talking about because we think...

GUILFOYLE: I know why. They were looking for a way out of the relationship. Yes.

PERINO: Here's my -- dirty socks on the floor, I got it.

ROGINSKY: I've been alive all these years. I had no idea that hot sauce was a thing in the black community. Live and learn.

All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: It's a wild one, never a dull moment on "The Five." And with a special guest that you will see beneath me here.

All right. Dana.

PERINO: We try to put Jasper in a stool, but it didn't work at all. I'm sure that we have some good video of that somewhere. Jasper is joining us today. He's just back from a trip in South Carolina. Can you say hi to everybody?

My paperback of "And the Good News Is...," "Even More Good News," comes out today. Jasper helped me promote that. We've got a picture. There it is. There's new material, a new chapter on George W. Bush and stories of working behind the scenes with him and -- thank, Greg. That's very kind of you. And also some more mentoring advice. So if you can pick it up, that would be great. And we'll try to get Jasper a better shot of him for you.

GUILFOYLE: He's got the cutest bowtie on, ever. And Peter is giving him commands. He's doing better now.

BOLLING: He's a good boy, Jasper.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Eric, what you got for us?

BOLLING: OK. Just want to make sure you keep it right here on FOX all night. Big, powerful line-up on New York primary night on FOX News Channel: 6 p.m., "Special Report," Bret Baier is going to kick it off. At 7 p.m., "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren, live from Times Square. Kimberly Guilfoyle will be on that show. "The O'Reilly Factor" at 8 p.m., live, followed by Megyn Kelly and Bret Baier with updates.

I think, Greg, you're on "O'Reilly." Yes, no?

GUTFELD: Believe it or not, yes.

BOLLING: Yes, you'll be on "O'Reilly."

"The Kelly File," Megyn Kelly. Brit Hume. DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

I forgot. Dana, you'll be on "Special Report" at 6.

PERINO: I'm "Special Report" at 6 and special election coverage. Julie and I are on that together.

BOLLING: Excellent. "Hannity" is live from Trump Tower. And then 11 p.m., stay -- stick around. Megyn Kelly and Bret Baier for two more hours, complete coverage. I'll just be here watching it right at home.

GUTFELD: Outside.

GUILFOYLE: Greg just keeps smiling. Go ahead.

GUTFELD: So yes, this. Where am I looking?


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner


GUTFELD: In Barcelona, they had the international tennis ball boy championships. It's a very intricate kind of competition. Please go ahead and roll it without me setting it up. Thank you very much. This is what happens. They test the ball boys, right? And usually it's...




GUTFELD: Oh. And then he tried to pretend it didn't happen. But if you'll notice, he got a very dirty look from the guy there.

And then what happened is he was immediately disqualified, and he was placed under arrest. And he went to ball boy prison, which is in Barcelona. Or bark-a-lona. You say bark-a-lona, like Ibiza?


GUTFELD: Anyway, no, the kid's fine. The kid's fine.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. You're going to get emails.

ROGINSKY: Do you feel bad that you're making fun of, like, a 10-year-old kid on national television?

PERINO: I feel bad for him.

GUTFELD: That kid was making fun of me the other day.

GUILFOYLE: He probably injured himself.

GUTFELD: He's fine. Look it up.

PERINO: He's mortified, but he was raised so well.


GUTFELD: I know.

PERINO: More mortified.

ROGINSKY: It's like that "Seinfeld" episode with the ball boy.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness. My goodness.

So and also I guess now, look at Jasper is behaving so well. I want to put him in instead of Greg.

GUTFELD: I drugged him.

GUILFOYLE: He's very polite, too.

GUTFELD: One of those kibbles I gave him.

GUILFOYLE: Kibbles and Bits. Kibbles and Bits.

I want to say thank you to everybody who showed up last night at Hunt and Fish Club for my magazine cover party of "Apartment 25-A" magazine. It was tons of fun. Look at all the FOX News ladies there. And that's one of the posters they got for me.

I want to thank again Christopher Pape, the editor in chief and Chase Backer, the publisher. Cam, the photographer. And a big thank you to Nelson Braff and the whole team at the Hunt and Fish Club, including the manager, Mark Lifite. Really appreciate it. A great place that we love here at FOX.

And thank you all for coming, my co-hosts.


GUILFOYLE: Yes. Unfortunately, we were all, like, out in different quarters of the room. So we were like -- some of the pictures we can't...

PERINO: That picture is only for you and me.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. I'm holding Dana. She looks like Flat Jasper, very straight.

All right. And Greta, tonight as Bolling said. I'll be over there joining her in Times Square, momentarily. We all set? Julie.

ROGINSKY: Oh! So I don't know if everybody saw this. But a little while ago, Johnny Depp's wife, Amber Heard...

GUTFELD: Oh, that.

ROGINSKY: ... tried to sneak their dogs into Australia. I'm not really sure what happened, but yadda, yadda, yadda, this video was the result of their punishment.


AMBER HEARD, ACTRESS: Australia is a wonderful island, with a treasure trove of unique plants, animals and people.

JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: It has to be protected.

HEARD: And I'm truly sorry that Pistol and Boo were not declared. Protecting Australia is important.

DEPP: Declare everything when you enter Australia.


PERINO: Is that real?

GUTFELD: Johnny Depp is turning into Ray Liotta.

BOLLING: He did look like Ray Liotta.

GUTFELD: He's finally hitting his age.

GUILFOYLE: It's weird. Is that real?

BOLLING: An apology.

GUTFELD: They smuggled their dogs into Australia. And they got caught.

ROGINSKY: He needs today's "New York Times" to show the hostage videos. It's unbelievable.

GUILFOYLE: That was very -- very creepy.

PERINO: Hey, Jasper.

ROGINSKY: And the worst part of this, by the way, is that the guy who made them do this in Australia, the Australian deputy prime minister, proceeded to go on Twitter and mock them mercilessly.

GUTFELD: Well, it was clear that Johnny had a drink. He was under duress.

PERINO: If you're wealthy, can't you just get your dogs -- like you do the paperwork, you get your dogs in, right?

GUTFELD: They didn't. They snuck them in.

GUILFOYLE: I think they should have hired actors to do the apology. That wasn't an Academy Award-winning performance.

ROGINSKY: That's what this guy said. The deputy foreign minister -- or prime minister said Johnny Depp is good at playing everybody except Johnny Depp. He was so bad at this.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. Exactly.

ROGINSKY: Nobody cares about us anymore. It's all about Jasper.

GUILFOYLE: What do you think, it was fun doing the show outside. And thank you, Jasper.

And for the viewers. Set your DVRs, never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. We'll see you back here tomorrow. "Special Report" is next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.