This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 14, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five." Donald Trump's campaign steps up its congressional outreach today, holding the first in a series of meetings of lawmakers to help him win the nomination. The front- runner, excuse me, meanwhile is continuing to rail against the rules he says were changed to keep him from becoming the nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER NAUERT, FOX NEWS: For example, the rules were clearly established ahead of time. So when people say that the rules are the rules, how do you respond?
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I respond by saying they changed the rules. You know after I got in, they changed the rules. I joined and then they changed the rules and they took it away from the voters, because I would have won in Colorado.
NAUERT: Do you think they did that because of you?
TRUMP: I think so, yeah, I think so, because they saw that I do very well in Colorado, so I think so. Look, it's a crooked system, but what are you going to do? In the meantime, I'm winning.
NAUERT: But the former head of the RNC said that you were at war with the GOP. Are you?
TRUMP: I'm not at war, but I want to make it really a process where the votes count.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Ted Cruz dismisses Trump's allegations and points out the establishment are not behind him either.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anyone that knows anything about Washington knows that the establishment is not rooting for me. That they have been battling me every day I've been in the Senate. But the rules are simple. The way you get elected is that you win a majority of the delegates in elections. What Donald is unhappy about is in the last three weeks, there have been a total of 11 elections in four states and we've beaten Donald in all 11 elections. He is unhappy about that because he is losing at the polls. And so I guess he thinks what he should do is just complain and attack the voters. I think the way you win is make the case to the voters and earn their votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: OK, I'll start with you Eric. The --- I was thinking today about Colorado -- you know I grew up there; that was a reliably republican state, my whole growing up, and then they voted twice for President Obama. So it is now considered a blue state, maybe kind of purple. Any republican, whoever it is, they need to win Colorado because they have to flip those states so that they can get to the 270 Electoral College votes. I don't think Colorado is going to change anything that happened and I would hope if Trump is thinking that he wants to win Colorado, it is probably best to set that aside, move forward and get a better operation there than he has.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah. And I think what Trump was pointing out, first of all again, I said this yesterday, I don't think he is right about the individual states rigging the game against Donald Trump. I think the rigging is when you take the aggregate, when you go to the RNC and the establishment, or the RNC rules committee has the ability to change the rules late in the game, and basically put in who they want. You wonder who the delegates are gonna be on the rules committee, there were two. I pointed the one out yesterday who said if Trump gets 1100, he is going to be the nominee. I'm not sure that's the case. And there's one Curly Haugland, a couple of weeks ago saying, well, the misinformation by the media is that voters think they're the ones picking the delegate -- the nominee. They're not. It's the delegates. That's a problem. The process is a problem, because the voters aren't. In Colorado, whenever they did it, October or November, whenever that was, they took the vote away from the people of Colorado and said, these are the delegates, we're going to elect these delegates from a group of around, I think 600 or 800. And all that, they whittled it down to 33 or 34, and they were gonna represent the whole state of Colorado, rather than the people of Colorado voting. I think the people of Colorado, republican people of Colorado would like to have their vote count for something, and I think that's what Trump was pointing out. And I would tend on agree with it, but again, after the fact, it's too late to be complaining about it.
PERINO: We don't need to go in all the details of Colorado. I actually understand the process a little bit differently than that. And also, I would say that when the Colorado changed its position, it was August. It was at seen as the review to Republican National Committee, to the very establishment that everyone is complaining about. But Kimberly, let me go to you this -- bypass Colorado, unless you want to talk more about Colorado.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'm good.
PERINO: What do you think about the other news that Trump is going to be in Washington meeting with congressional members, seeing if he can gin up some support on that side?
GUILFOYLE: Sounds like a good idea to me. It sounds like something that's putting forward a strategy, maybe from some of the new people that he's brought on board that is saying we need to kind of reach out and make sure that they're olive branches instead of fire sticks poking at everyone. So, I think that's good. I want to see the party come together and support the person that, you know, ultimately should get the nomination and has the most delegates and should move forward. So let's see what happens with that. I think they need to do a little bit more of that outreach and perhaps, this is the first steps.
PERINO: All right, Greg, what do you think about the strategy going forward?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Do you know what he's like? He is like, you know when you go to the gym for the first time and you don't talk to anybody, and you start using the machines but you really don't know how to use them? And you end up hurting yourself? Trump finally figure that after being at the gym for a few months, maybe hire a personal trainer. Maybe go to Washington and have somebody go, OK, look --
PERINO: It makes it more efficient.
GUTFELD: It makes it more efficient and now you can do the arm curls, because that's what I do. I was screw up because I never actually go talk to somebody. So I think it's good. But I just have to go back to what Cruz said. You know, I hate -- this will be the second --
GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: I'd like to picture you on the gym.
GUTFELD: I have pictures of me in the gym, Geraldo.
GUTFELD: Would you like to see them? I was the editor of Men's Health, young man.
GUILFOYLE: Was this your gym at D.C. reps?
GUTFELD: Yeah. I was -- it was house of reps.
RIVERA: As he was lying in down the corner.
GUTFELD: That's -- this is the second day I will compliment Ted Cruz, which is like unbelievable. Because I -- he just to drive me crazy, but he, he was right. He did get no help from anyone. He really --
GUTFELD: He was -- he had to get buy on his personality, Eric. And you know his personality.
BOLLING: And no, no. And we talked about that quite a bit. But now, clearly, just -- I mean, from him to say the establishment is not in his corner. They are. Lindsey Graham said he wouldn't, he wouldn't pull the plug -- put the plug back in on the --
GUTFELD: He would pull the plug on.
BOLLING: Yeah, he pulls the plug. He wouldn't put the plug back in if the plug came out, it's where you basically say the people on the set forward let him go.
BOLLING: The establishment wants to get a -- keep Donald Trump from getting 1237, so that they can, they can do what they're going to do with the rules committee. And we don't really know what they're going to do. They say they're going --
GUTFELD: I don't think they have to do anything with the rules committee. They -- the rules are there.
BOLLING: Well, if the rules stay the same.
BOLLING: John Kasich can't be in there, Marco Rubio can't be and if Jeb Bush -- if they stay the same.
PERINO: Because they didn't win eight states.
BOLLING: Because they didn't win eight states.
RIVERA: I want to know something more basic, and I want to go back to where you started Dana. I know rules are rules, but what about one man one vote? Why -- what is with it this caucus system anyway?
PERINO: What about representational government?
GUTFELD: Yes. Should we get rid of the Senate and Congress?
RIVERA: Why not have primaries? Why can't we have a primary?
PERINO: Why get rid of the Electoral College?
RIVERA: I'm a member of the Republican Party in New York State, I will be voting next Tuesday in the primary. It is a simple process, an honest process, nobody can deny my vote. In Colorado, on the other hand, I am confident Dana, the people you grew up with had no say in that process at all, but selected Ted Cruz that -- and Ted Cruz getting 34 --
GUTFELD: They knew --
RIVERA: Ted Cruz getting 34 of the electoral --
GUTFELD: Sixty thousand people.
RIVERA: of the 34 of the delegates, out of 34. Is that the will of the republican electorate in the state of Colorado, I dare to say this is not.
PERINO: This is a party process of the party gets together. The party that dominate --
RIVERA: The party stinks. The party stinks.
PERINO: That --
GUTFELD: It stinks to everyone then.
PERINO: You can have that opinion, but that is at page (ph) --
RIVERA: But you have --
GUTFELD: But the only person who can (inaudible) was Trump, because he's winning.
RIVERA: He's failed to understand that most people think that.
GUILFOYLE: Unicorn, do well.
RIVERA: . the organized political system stinks. You missed the attraction of Sanders.
BOLLING: Can I --
RIVERA: . and the attraction of Trump.
BOLLING: Can I add one thing to this? So we've talked about this quite a bit. And people come on Twitter and Facebook (inaudible), oh you didn't say you're here for Trump, this about -- this isn't about Trump. This is going to hurt Ted -- this process, the rules is going to hurt Ted Cruz as much as it's going to hurt Donald Trump, because they will take -- they can feasibly take it away from Trump or Cruz.
PERINO: I think there are some ways. I think that people that worried about, though, are worrying about the wrong thing. I mean, what -- the goal should be to try t o get to 1237. I think the agitation is coming from everybody realizing no one is getting to 1237, 1237 is the number, that's the majority. But on the representational issue, the -- you don't -- the Electoral College is what it is. It is -- look at 2000, that the popular vote did not prevail. I mean we have a representational government for a reason.
RIVERA: I was gonna talk about 200 and I will.
PERINO: If you want to change -- I mean there is a movement that wants to change and not have an Electoral College and just go to a straight popular vote. But that's just not the system that we have right now, and it is actually one I think would be bad. I think the founding fathers had it right when they set it up the way that they did.
RIVERA: It just seems to me, you -- we will be talking more, I am sure about how aggressive the Trump supporters have been, how aggressive the Sanders supporters have been, bullying, cajoling, late night phone calls and so forth. But you remember, and I'm sure you do Dana, in 2000, November 2000. The Brooks Brothers brigade, Congressman John Sweeney here in New York. George W. Bush called him congressman kickass. He went down with 100 GOP thugs all dressed up. They literally --
PERINO: I don't know what you're talking about.
RIVERA: They physically stopped the recount of the vote in South Florida. It's not -- this is not new hard elbow politics. It's not new now --
PERINO: Brooks Brothers suits --
RIVERA: Yeah, Brooks Brothers brigade, that's what they called it. Look it up.
PERINO: Well, no, I mean, I know that they were able to -- that was the fight in the recount. But I -- that wasn't a suggestion that there should not be an Electoral College. Even the democrats were arguing that at the time.
RIVERA: Well, Electoral College, I mean, it's all states rights and all of that.
PERINO: But that's representational government, the same with the delegates.
GUTFELD: I would -- I mean, I don't mind that --
RIVERA: I remember (inaudible) the popular vote.
GUTFELD: Geraldo, I don't vote on any bills. I don't vote on any bills. Congressman do -- if we -- they represent us. The other thing too is Trump is doing better at delegate-wise -- percentage-wise then he is on vote. It's helping him.
BOLLING: So is Cruz.
BOLLING: And so is Cruz. They both now because --
GUTFELD: But Trump is about 20 percent --
RIVERA: But what happens if Trump doesn't have 1237? Let say --
GUTFELD: There's a rule.
RIVERA: What happens then?
GUTFELD: There's a rule for that.
RIVERA: OK, what are the rules?
GUTFELD: Then you go to the first ballot, the second ballot, the third ballot.
RIVERA: And then what happens in the second ballot when the 1200 becomes 1152, and then on the third ballot, 1145. And then it becomes --
PERINO: Well, they keep going. It's going to be awesome.
RIVERA: And becomes -- and then .
BOLLING: I have an answer for this.
RIVERA: . the sand pile is washing away.
BOLLING: I do know the answer for this.
RIVERA: And what does his people gonna do? What are they're going to do?
GUTFELD: It's same on what happened with Abraham Lincoln.
BOLLING: So --
GUTFELD: Third ballot.
BOLLING: No, but let's say you get the 40 ballots --
RIVERA: Yeah, really.
BOLLING: No, but here's what happens. I -- talked to a lot of people about this.
RIVERA: In Cleveland in the summer.
BOLLING: Here's what happens. At some point, even though the rules committee is going to be, I guess, populated by mostly Trump and Cruz delegates, because they have the most. Allegedly, it's going to be more than half. If they make the rule that only someone with a TRC can be nominated.
BOLLING: . as president, then you would think it would stop right there. But at some point, during the process, there's one. There's a hundred and twelve 112 delegates on the rules committee, but there's one overseer, and that's gonna be -- probably be Reince Priebus or Paul Ryan, and they -- that man, right there, can call for a rule change after 40 votes.
PERINO: After 40 votes they might --
BOLLING: But whatever --
PERINO: After 40 votes, everybody might ask them too.
BOLLING: But think about this --
GUILFOYLE: They might have to do something --
BOLLING: Just think about this one second. Kimberly, when you --
GUTFELD: Television, you'll love it.
BOLLING: No hung jury. Get to a number, get -- get your number. Get your 1237, you guys.
GUILFOYLE: But when you get a hung jury to decide.
GUTFELD: That's would happen. It's that six of these --
GUILFOYLE: ... and see if you get (inaudible).
GUTFELD: They have what, look they have 10 and 6 -- and six have become republican president, if I'm not mistaken. Because it happens, people do get tired of it, and then they make a decision.
BOLLING: But Greg, if it's down to you and me at the convention, right? Where we are the only one --
RIVERA: I'm walking out.
BOLLING: And Geraldo -- and Geraldo's case, OK. He has no -- he's not when you're near the numbers.
GUTFELD: Thank God.
BOLLING: You and I are gonna set the rules so that only you or I can win. Now we'll beat, we'll beat the heck out of each other --
RIVERA: I got a better scenario.
BOLLING: However, the 10 times that you're talking about, there was someone else that could come in.
RIVERA: My scenario is I take my 1200 and I walk. I'm Trump. I see what's going on with you guys --
RIVERA: All these (inaudible). I'm walking.
GUILFOYLE: And what would you do, third party run?
RIVERA: Third party.
PERINO: In the meantime, Hillary Clinton runs away with the presidency.
PERINO: All right. It's a big night in the Big Apple. All five presidential candidates are here making their final speeches to voters at events tonight, and we are covering it all. Make sure to catch us special, believe this or not, a live edition of "The Five" is at 11:00 p.m. eastern, tonight.
GUTFELD: That's "The Five"?
GUILFOYLE: Oh no.
PERINO: And that thing is going to be fun.
GUTFELD: That's the Nightmare Five.
PERINO: Do you know that I almost asked today for a graphic of "The Five" of us to show.
PERINO: I probably should have done that.
GUILFOYLE: Is that -- would Hillary be on the leg chair there?
BOLLING: Oh my, gosh.
PERINO: Yes. Hillary would be on leg chair in that case.
PERINO: All right, ahead. Bernie Sanders need to pull up a big upset against Hillary Clinton in New York on Tuesday. Can he do it? We'll ask election Ed Henry, that's next.
GUILFOYLE: Bernie Sanders has his work cut out for him, indeed. He only has five more days to convince New York voters to pick him over their former senator. Is his anti-establishment message enough to get him across the finish line?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I look out at the thousands of people who are here tonight --
SANDERS: I think we've got a surprise for the establishment.
SANDERS: I think that if we have a large voter turnout on Tuesday, we're going to win this thing. Thank you all very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right, Sanders got some unsolicited help today from conservative Super PAC American Crossroads. They put out this dramatic attack ad depicting his opponent as a modern day Richard Nixon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: What I have stated from the beginning to be the truth has been the truth.
HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want people to understand what the truth is.
NIXON: I am confident the American people will come to realize I have not violated the trusts.
CLINTON: I am confident by the end of this campaign people will know they can trust me.
NIXON: The entire story is there.
CLINTON: I turned over everything I was obligated to turn over.
NIXON: I want the facts out.
CLINTON: I want those e-mails out.
NIXON: I'm sorry. I just hope I haven't let you down.
CLINTON: I'm sorry about that. I take responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Now, for more on the dramatic race, let's bring in Chief White House Correspondent Ed Henry who is live in Brooklyn. Hello, Ed.
ED HENRY, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.
GUILFOYLE: Nice joggers.
HENRY: Well, it's interesting --
GUILFOYLE: You've got some joggers behind.
HENRY: I thought there was some question to there.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah, we're looking at the joggers.
HENRY: Oh yeah, well --
HENRY: I hope they're all good-looking, and they were -- we'll check them out.
GUTFELD: Look us.
HENRY: I think it is important that you mentioned the context of the general election in terms of that American Crossroads ad, that's a conservative group who will undoubtedly be pounding Hillary Clinton if she is the democratic nominee, talking about the e-mails. But that's a stark contrast to what we are likely to see tonight. Bernie Sanders said at the very beginning of the first debate, he was taking the e-mails off the table. Very few debate moderators have pressed Hillary Clinton over the course of the last several months on that issue.
Although there was a little hint from the Sanders camp today that you had both of these candidates yesterday on the picket lines with striking Verizon workers in the New York City area and the Sanders camp was saying, wait a second. It turned out Hillary Clinton was with the workers yesterday. But back in 2013 she gave one of those big paid speeches, over $200,000 paid for by, yes, Verizon. So she was standing up to the company yesterday, on behalf of the workers, but it turns out a couple years ago, was making big money from the company. That may come up tonight guys.
GUILFOYLE: That's what you call an inconvenient truth. All right, so Greg has something special for you.
GUTFELD: Well, it is interesting that Hillary does have something in common with Richard Nixon. Nixon had a dog and she married one. Ed, you've been in Brooklyn now for a few hours, had you tried any artesian yogurt or gotten anything pierced?
HENRY: I have not gotten any pierce, at least not yet. I will tell you a funny story, and I know you like funny, Greg. You're very funny.
GUTFELD: Oh, please.
HENRY: As you just stay at the outside.
HENRY: Extremely funny.
GUTFELD: Stop it.
HENRY: And the "New York Post" had a great story saying, there are so many Brooklyn hipsters who do not cable, they can't watch the debate tonight, so they are flooding local bars here in Brooklyn. The hipsters saying, "Please show the debate." And normally they've got the Mets game or the Yankees game. There's a fight over which team they gonna support. The Brooklyn hipsters tonight are saying, "Give us the Bern or give us Hillary."
RIVERA: Do you -- that's interesting, Ed. Do you think, they, you know, since they don't have cable and they are not plugged into the practical side of life, do you think they'll show up at the polling place next Tuesday? You know it's easy to go to rally, it's easy to, you know hang around with, you know, your pals. What about turnout? Any, any idea of what turnout does in this --
HENRY: Well --
HENRY: Geraldo, I think like you, the candidate is the major candidates transcend cable and they're big on the internet and big out on the streets as well. And you know --
RIVERA: Bernie Sanders is great on "Dancing with the Stars."
GUILFOYLE: Oh my, god, feel the Bern.
HENRY: Well, look, I think you did a great job. I don't care what anybody says. I'll defend you all the way.
GUILFOYLE: I don't care what anybody says.
HENRY: I don't care what anyone says. I mean I am referring --
HENRY: Maybe there's a little criticism, but I thought you did a great job. Look --
GUILFOYLE: He's our star.
HENRY: Look --
GUILFOYLE: All right.
HENRY: People talking --
HENRY: I was talking about Hillary Clinton in a live shot before, and a bunch of folks walked by here in Brooklyn and they're like, "Bernie, Bernie." So look, yeah, they might not have cable, but they know, they go to the rallies, they're excited about this campaign, and I think tonight's debate. This primary, next Tuesday, it's do or die for Bernie Sanders. Let's face it. He's at momentum, he's won at least seven straight contests, but delegate math, he's behind Hillary Clinton.
BOLLING: Hey, Ed. One of the things that, when they're debating, whether their reaction, they don't even have this debate or not was, the one of the issues is you're standing there in Brooklyn, over that river right over there where it cross going little b it south. Wall Street, that's right across lower of Manhattan.
BOLLING: How does Bernie Sanders play this? How you points over there and say, hey, you're the one who, you know, as you point out, did a speech for Verizon, a couple of years ago. You're the one who took $600,000 in speeches.
BOLLING: . Goldman Sachs, right over there. How does she defend that? What's her comeback to that?
HENRY: It's funny you asked that, because she just did an interview that emerged with some Philadelphia journalists. Because after New York it will be the following week will go on to Pennsylvania primary, as you know at the end of April. And some Philadelphia journalists pressed her about those Wall Street speeches and said where the transcripts? And Hillary Clinton got a little frustrated. And the audio is out there and she basically said, "Why don't you ask Bernie Sanders about why he hasn't released his entire tax returns? Why are you just coming after me?" And so, I think we put that together with the Greenpeace activists, a couple weeks ago, who got her on a rope line about contributions from the oil and gas industries. She's gotten frustrated with the attacks. She's gotten frustrated with the fact that Bernie Sanders is still around. She thought he would be gone by now.
PERINO: A couple of things. So this is a debate that she didn't think she's gonna have to do. And if she had -- I think won Wisconsin.
PERINO: . she probably won't be doing it. But so she's doing this debate tonight, he has her a little bit on the run. But Bernie Sanders, who has been willing to kind of be aggressive when he is not around her, not in person, has been effective.
PERINO: But when he gets next to her in a debate, he tends to pull his punches. Do you think that tonight he will aggressively pursue the lines of attack he's been pursuing the last couple of weeks, or does he take a pass on it?
HENRY: You asked a good question. I think that he knows, as I just laid out, that if he doesn't bring his A-game tonight, time is running out. And so he's gonna have to step it up. But I hesitate, because we've heard this before, there's been pre-game hype at all these debates. But the gloves are coming off, you come off with every tired, metaphor there is. And then as you say, you're actually -- absolutely right Dana, that Bernie Sanders ends up sort of walking up to that line and pulling back. So I can't say with certainty that he's gonna do it. He's staff says he's ready, and then he's been oppressor, but we've heard that before. And I think part of his hesitation is that among the hardcore democrats, they want to take her on policy-wise, but they've know -- necessarily want to see her pushed on the honest and trustworthy question. Because at the end of this democrats are getting nervous about these two coming together. As you say, this has gone on longer, and it's gotten a little nasty in the last couple of weeks. So everyone talks about how the republicans are divided, and they are. But the democrats are divided too.
GUILFOYLE: All right, Ed, enjoy that nice weather in Brooklyn. Thanks for being with us.
HENRY: Good to see you.
GUILFOYLE: Ahead, Sanders love to say corporations are destroying America. So why is one of the biggest getting attacked? Greg thinks he knows -- let see.
GUTFELD: Hi, Charles.
GUTFELD: Like most on the left, Bernie Sanders demonizes big business, from banks to GE and now Verizon. Verizon outsources and makes a profit, which in left-speak is theft. Having no idea that wealth is actually created and then shared, they assume it must be stolen from some mysterious finite pie that's existed in the universe since the Big Bang.
But one company always escapes their wrath: Apple. When asked if Apple is wrecking America, Bernie said, no. See, he knows how shallow his fans are. The typical protester only goes after giant, unlovable companies like Verizon, because they're conveniently abstract. You can't put Verizon in your pocket or show it off, so to activists, they're just like your mean, big, invisible dad who never hugged you. The iPhone, however is part of who you are, a status symbol nestled in your pocket like a friendly little robot baby.
And there's the hypocrisy, activists only protest stuff that doesn't enhance their identity. Apple outsources like crazy, but who cares when you're tweeting pictures of your gluten-free socks, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: I love them.
GUTFELD: It's like protesting the police. College kids don't own anything or run a business so it is fun to heckle the men in blue. The result: The police back off and shootings go up in the communities that the college kids don't live in. But let's say they protest Apple and Apple complies: No more making phones in China. In a year the iPhone would cost more than a pre-owned Prius. There goes the trip to Burning Man, and you were going to Instagram the whole thing.
GUTFELD: Do you know one thing I noticed, Kimberly?
GUTFELD: You know whatever protests fossil fuels in a harsh winter, like when you got to heat your dorm.
GUTFELD: They're not out there screaming about natural gas.
GUILFOYLE: Well, because --
GUTFELD: All of it, but they won't.
GUILFOYLE: Well, it's convenient. You know liberalism, convenient, progressivism where they say, OK, here's what we're for. But you noticed, like we (inaudible) from Ed Henry, like Hillary Clinton, happy to take money, you know, for speeches (inaudible), but at the same time she'll show up and be like, I'm all about we, the people, the workers. Let's fight back and then give the whole anti-corporate thing. So you really see the hypocrisy, but somehow, if you're liberal, you get away with it.
GUILFOYLE: And there's just this sort of loose relationship with honesty and with integrity and with ethics.
GUILFOYLE: Because anything goes to get it done.
GUTFELD: Well, you know, Eric, there's another hypocrisy. With the left talking about outsourcing; it's about protecting workers. But if the right talks about outsourcing, it's bigotry.
BOLLING: Not only that. Think about these -- these hipster who love their iPhone but are ticked off at Verizon and AT&T.
BOLLING: You don't want them to outsource; you're against that. You want -- you want salaries raised. You want all that stuff. Guess how much your plan is going to cost when you open up and pay for your iPhone...
BOLLING: ... bill every single month? It's going to go up. Don't complain about that. Be -- as you point out, be consistent. If you're mad at Verizon and AT&T, be mad at iPhone -- at Apple, as well.
Geraldo, aren't they just -- isn't this just easy targeting?
RIVERA: I think what's going on, though, it's easy to scoff at stuff.
RIVERA: But when you see the energy like the Washington Square demonstration for Sanders yesterday, you could not help but be impressed. He squeezed 27,000 into Washington Square Park. It is in the midst of NYU, granted. A very hip kind of community. But that energy, that vibe, that's real. And I think that's why Hillary Clinton is looking over her shoulder now in a way she never expected. So thought she'd be looking toward the Republican nominee, but instead, she has all of these psyched kids. They're the Occupy forces, the Black Lives Matter. They're all of these different groups questing for years for a cause. Now they have a cause in the 74-year-old guy from Vermont.
GUTFELD: But the cause, Dana, is always the same. It's -- it's rich people. It's wealth. It's corporations. And then they -- then they get older. They get married; they have kids. And they realize profit is not a bad thing, because that's how you put food on the table.
PERINO: True. And I admire the CEO of Verizon, Lowell McAdam, who pushed back. In the face of all of this overwhelming positive coverage...
PERINO: ... from people like Bernie Sanders and socialism, he was able to push back, I thought, very effectively.
But the reason that they don't -- they would go after Verizon and not Apple also has to do with progressive politics at the corporate level. And David French at National Review wrote a really great piece yesterday, talking about how progressive politics is now infused at the CEO level in some companies, and Apple certainly is one of them with Tim Cook being -- recently, you know, fighting back against the FBI...
PERINO: ... in regards to the terrorism investigation that they were doing after San Bernardino.
The other thing is what Verizon is talking about is progress. You cannot stop progress. Technology is coming. The bigger public policy issue that Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Trump, whoever it is, is going to have to deal with is the fact that this is coming, no matter what.
PERINO: Because you know what? Guess who likes to use automated stuff? Young people.
PERINO: They don't want to have to talk to anybody. They like it at the McDonald's that they can go in and order by iPad. They would rather call up Verizon and do it by a phone tree.
GUTFELD: That is so true. It's the wave of the future.
PERINO: Those jobs are going anyway.
GUTFELD: Yes. Which I predicted 40 years ago.
PERINO: Sorry to be the skunk at the garden party.
GUTFELD: All right.
All right. Coming up.
RIVERA: We're going to have a robot replace you.
GUTFELD: Yes, there you go.
GUTFELD: Russian war planes in the Baltic Sea. Putin's fighter jets carry out aggressive maneuvers dangerously close to a U.S. Navy ship. The White House reaction ahead.
RIVERA: If you could hear the commercials. We just had an intriguing conversation about what constitutes creepy. Very interesting.
That's creepy. That's creepy. The Russian war planes flying extremely close to one of our U.S. destroyers, not once, not twice. Multiple times in the Baltic Sea this week. So close for the Russian aircraft they created wakes in the water near our warship.
The Kremlin, with tongue firmly in cheek, denying any aggressive behavior - - sure -- saying their pilots were checking out our ship and were complying with safety regulations. The White House, though, as you might expect, says otherwise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The incident is inconsistent with the professional norms of militaries that are operating in proximity to each other in international waters and airspace.
In fact, there is a bilateral agreement between the United States and Russia that dates back to the Cold War that governs incidents exactly like this. This specific incident is pretty specifically contemplated by this agreement. The United States has raised our concerns with the Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERA: You can raise your concerns, Greg, but it's like "Top Gun," you know? They're just showing off. The plane was not armed. I don't think it's that big a deal.
GUTFELD: I'm glad we sent a formal complaint. I heard that in it, they said, "If you don't respond, you will not be invited -- Putin will not be invited to Obama's birthday party. There's going to be face painting. There's going to be a juggler and a real live cowboy."
But they said if Putin doesn't do it -- and Putin knows the state of our affairs. He knows that we're in disarray. He's kind of like -- he knows there's a fight going on in the house, so he keep throwing his Frisbee in your yard, because he knows -- he knows he can do it. One of these days, we just have to take his Frisbee.
RIVERA: But you know, far more substantive than this to me, Eric, is the fact that Putin is snubbing us on the nuclear proliferation conference, not showing up. That's a big -- a big gap in our ambition to stop the proliferation.
BOLLING: So what he did in Syria, he took the ball away from President Obama. He said, "I've got this year" and kind of left there feeling pretty good about himself. I think the Russian people liked what he did in Syria.
And then he doesn't show up to the nuclear proliferation summit that was in D.C. And now this. This happened over two days. There were -- 11 times they buzzed the ship over a two-day period. I think after the first time, you send a message saying, "You do it again, I don't care if you're armed or not, we're going to knock one of those down."
I think you give them a fair warning. You get NATO involved and have NATO say, "We are going to do this, and we have the support of NATO to do it." You can't have Russian MIGs or whatever...
BOLLING: Whatever. You can't have them buzzing our ship. You can't.
RIVERA: That was an Aegis class destroyer. They could knock that airplane out, Dana, you know, with their eyes closed. But isn't it easy to overreact to something like that?
PERINO: Yes, and I think that is true. Our military, they're so professional, and they exercise a tremendous amount of restrain. And I liked Captain Rick Hoffman, who said, "You don't get -- you don't get to kill people because they are annoying."
PERINO: That was his theory. I was surprised. I was surprised to hear that.
BOLLING: Like the one on "The Five."
GUILFOYLE: Nine lives.
PERINO: I have One More Thing. It's not just that, you know, Russia was dismissive saying, "Oh, look, no harm done." It's what not they say to us that matters. It's what they say to their domestic audience, which is a very different story. Because they are -- he is trying to -- Putin is trying to shore up his credentials amongst his people so that they think he's a big dog in the world.
RIVERA: With the price of oil plunging...
RIVERA: ... poverty rates going way up in Russia.
GUILFOYLE: But he's still -- yes, he's still his own best advertising.
RIVERA: Here's my -- here's my question.
RIVERA: What if the plane was an Iranian plane? Would we be so cool, calm and collected about it?
GUILFOYLE: No. I would hope that we would not be. But I mean, I also think that we need to do something to let them know that it's not OK to routinely do this. What about the one time when it -- when it is armed? I mean, I just think that we're entering into a little bit of dangerous territory here. And if it becomes too complacent, I bet we're not even issuing warnings at this point. They're buzzing.
And you have China doing the same thing. They're developing, you know, anti-carrier missiles that are so powerful, they call them carrier killers. Like, they can knock out one of our destroyers and our ships. So we have to be a little, like, up on this. It's not so much about worrying about hurting people's feelings. Because there is strength in appropriate diplomacy.
BOLLING: You need a tough commander-in-chief to really put his foot down on this stuff.
PERINO: Bernie Sanders is going to be great.
GUTFELD (IMITATING BERNIE SANDERS): "I don't like your planes flying over."
BOLLING (IMITATING BERNIE SANDERS): "Sending planes over."
RIVERA: Let's have some chicken soup. Don't move. Kobe, Kimmel and Cruz coming up next in "The Fastest Seven." Stay tuned.
BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Fastest 7
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Seven Minutes on Television." Three exceptional stories, seven expeditious minutes, one exuberant host.
First up, Kobe Bryant ended a phenomenal NBA career last night. He went out in style, scoring 60 points, an NBA record for the season. Kobe capping a 20-year career, assisting the Lakers to five championships.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty points!
KOBE BRYANT, RETIRED NBA PLAYER: It has been beautiful, you guys. I can't believe it has come to an end. You guys will always be in my heart. And I sincerely, sincerely appreciate it. No words can describe how I feel about you guys. And thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I love you guys. What can I say?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right. Jordan, Magic, Bird, now Kobe Bryant will be mentioned with some of basketball's all-time greats.
Greg, you're a big basketball fan.
GUTFELD: Oh, yes. And some would say he's one of the top five all-time players. But I don't even think he's in the top five of the Lakers. When you think who played for the Lakers, you had Magic; you had Kareem; you had Wilt, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor. I'll even throw in a sixth with James Worthy. I'll even throw a seventh one, Fletch. Do you remember when Fletch played for the Lakers?
RIVERA: Better than Kobe?
GUTFELD: Yes. Better than Kobe. James Worthy.
RIVERA: Kobe should get do what Jordan did and get a franchise. That's the future of the...
GUTFELD: How about a steak franchise? Kobe Beef?
A terrible joke. A terrible joke. Stop it.
PERINO: I was just going to ask you, is 60 points a lot?
RIVERA: It's a record number.
GUTFELD; He hogged the ball. Think about that.
BOLLING: You worked on that.
GUILFOYLE: Let me try. I didn't think it was going to go this badly. So OK.
GUTFELD: What are you talking about?
GUILFOYLE: Listen. I love Michael Jordan. Like, that's my guy. My kid running around in Air Jordans, even if they're not comfortable. Put them on. This is what winners wear. But you know...
BOLLING: For football.
GUILFOYLE: That was a joke. Hello. Hug it out.
But I saw him play. He was fantastic. Saw Jordan play. Love it. Love my Golden State Warriors right now.
BOLLING: Of course, stay right there. Kimmel loves the man on the street shtick. Roll the prompter, please. Roll it up, roll it up. Last night, he hit the L.A. streets to find out what Americans -- well, let's just say Los Angelians, can name more Avengers.
BOLLING: Angelinos, whatever. Or comic book film characters. Or U.S. presidents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Captain America, Hawkeye, The Hulk, Ironman, Black Widow. Obama, George Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grover Washington.
(SOUND EFFECT: BUZZER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know any U.S. presidents?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jackson. Perot.
(SOUND EFFECT: BUZZER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abe Lincoln. Thomas Edison.
(SOUND EFFECT: BUZZER)
BOLLING: All right, K.G.
GUILFOYLE: They must have edited that, because people have -- hello. Lead with, like, Obama, Clinton. This is not that hard to do.
BOLLING: Girl got the first and the last president, missed all the other 43.
RIVERA: Do you know what it does? After spending my life in public life in news and information, it is -- you think what the hell have I been doing? I mean, this is the young, and not all young. There are some people there of some age. That there's such little knowledge about such basic things is very daunting.
GUTFELD: Yes, Geraldo. You put out so much great historical work.
GUTFELD: OK. Well, we're learning about gangsters and now we're learning about drug cartels.
And insane asylums.
PERINO: I would have been the exact opposite. I cannot name a single Avenger.
RIVERA: Me either.
BOLLING: Is Captain America an avenger?
PERINO: And you like the movies and stuff. I don't know.
GUILFOYLE: I have one of the costumes. The one with the black leather onesie with the red wig.
GUTFELD: You don't wear that any more.
GUILFOYLE: I should wear it one day on here.
BOLLING: Wear it at the 11 p.m.
Finally, this: remember the old show, "Kids Say the Darnedest Things?" Well, last night there was a town hall featuring the Cruz family. During a discussion about family time, the Texas senator revealed he had recently dressed up in a pink boa and -- let's let adorable little Caroline Cruz break some news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are moments of humility that being the father daughters instills in you. A couple days ago I was back for Caroline's daddy-daughter picnic at school which featured all the dads running and playing games. And...
CAROLINE CRUZ, TED CRUZ's DAUGHTER: My favorite.
T. CRUZ: Your favorite was that she got to dress up Daddy in, like, this pink boa and these, like, big-goofy looking underwear.
C. CRUZ: And that's why it was videotaped the whole time. And now it's a class video that they're sending out to all the parents.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, really?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: An adorable moment.
PERINO: I would -- that would be a great job on television to do -- to interview kids. Because I love it. You don't love it?
RIVERA: Steve Harvey has that job.
PERINO: I know.
GUTFELD: She just trolled her dad. She did that on purpose. She said, "If you're going to use me on this show I'm going to show you what I can do, and you will never forget this." I thought that was brave. She is adorable.
RIVERA: When are we going to see this video?
GUILFOYLE: From the king of trolling, yes.
Interesting. You should be the one to give the award. I mean, minutes from now maybe, right? I mean, somebody is going to put it out there.
PERINO: The Trump team was, like, "Get me that video, stat!"
GUILFOYLE: I want Ted in a pink boa.
RIVERA: I love the Trump family on TV. I mean, not that we're talking about the Trump family.
PERINO: Of course we are.
GUTFELD: Of course we do know...
BOLLING: So you have daughters. Do you ever dress up in the pink boa?
RIVERA: I dress up. Every year I make a fool of myself at the...
GUTFELD: Just every year?
GUTFELD: I have tweets. Pictures of you that say otherwise.
BOLLING: I've got to go. All right.
GUILFOYLE: You'd do anything for your kids.
BOLLING: "One More Thing" is next.
PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing. But first, if you love "The Five" and you want to see more of us, you're in luck. We're going to be right back here at 11 p.m. Eastern, so please tune in then.
And Kimberly, you get to go first.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you so much, Dana.
So someone we all greatly admire at the table, William Bennett, national best-selling author, has a new book out, "Tried by Fire: The Story of Christianity's First Thousand Years." I encourage you to get this book. I have it posted on my Facebook; going to put it up on Twitter. And this is very interesting, because it's a guided tour of the events and people from the first thousand years of Christianity. And in it you can see the lives that are explored: saints, sinners, paupers -- Greg, you'll like this book a lot -- kings...
GUTFELD: I do like paupers.
GUILFOYLE: ... merchants and monks. I strongly encourage you to get it. He's written and edited over 25 books, and this is a must-read.
And also tonight, Bolling, we're on "Hannity."
BOLLING: And "Hannity," yes.
GUILFOYLE: And "The Five" at 11.
GUTFELD: Invisible Bolling.
PERINO: OK. It's time for this.
GUTFELD: No, me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's Movie News!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: I forgot.
GUTFELD: OK. Boy, this show is going well. All right. It's going to be better tonight at 11 p.m. Any way, you know what...
RIVERA: You call it "The Eleven"?
GUTFELD: Yes, we call it "The Eleven." Actually, 65 plus 11 (ph). Legal in some states.
This new move. They're remaking "King Kong" -- I bet you didn't know that -- with Alec Baldwin. I got some tape of it. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHIMPANZEE ON WIRES HOPS INTO BUCKET TRUCK'S BUCKET)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: They filmed it in Japan. And Mr. Baldwin is very agile in his performance. This is Oscar bait material.
Actually, this poor guy got loose from the zoo. His name is Cha-Cha. They ended up shooting him. Don't worry; don't worry. He does fall, but he is fine. He's fine. But he's fine. That was a tranquillizer gun.
GUILFOYLE: What didn't they do it when he came down?
GUTFELD: What, am I a scientist?
PERINO: But you kind of -- you kind of owe it to the story to finish, you know, that.
GUTFELD: I don't owe anybody anything.
PERINO: All right. Now it's time for this. This is more fun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Dana's Corny Joke of the Day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: OK. Kimberly. I'm counting on you this time.
GUILFOYLE: I'm going to work it up.
PERINO: Why does the chicken fall into the well?
GUILFOYLE: Because it couldn't cross to the other side. I don't know.
OK. Because it couldn't see that well.
PERINO: Thank you, cameraman.
What did the fisherman say to the card magician? What did the fisherman say to the card magician?
GUTFELD: All hands on deck?
PERINO: Pick a cod.
RIVERA: Pick a cod. Oh, my God.
PERINO: That was funny. OK, Geraldo. You've got to get this. Why don't you play cards in the Savannah? Why don't you play cards in the Savannah? Because there are a lot of cheetahs.
I attended a retirement ceremony on Friday of a great American soldier. The American Spartan, general John f. Campbell. And I think you have some video of that ceremony. I've watched this guy for 13 years. I watched him go from a colonel to a one-star general, two-star, three-star, four-star general, who's faster than anyone since the Civil War. General Campbell, a great American hero. Retired.
GUILFOYLE: Very nice.
PERINO: That is it for us. Eric, I'll give you more time tonight.
Bolling: Really special "One More Thing" at 11 p.m.
PERINO: We'll be back here at 11 p.m. Eastern tonight. "Special Report" is next.
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