Trump campaign capitalizes on 'New York values' comments
Reaction on 'Hannity' to attacks on Ted Cruz
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," April 8, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight...
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When he started lecturing me on New York values, like we're no good -- like we're no good...
(BOOS)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been campaigning across-- across New York, and people are stopping me literally every day and say, I know exactly what you meant, and I'm fed up with what these liberal Democrats are doing to us, the people of New York.
HANNITY: The New York primaries are only 11 days away. Kimberly Guilfoyle, David Limbaugh, Michael Cohen are here tonight to react.
MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "TODAY": ... that at some point between now and the election -- and they say this...
(LAUGHTER)
LAUER: ... they say this -- that they will get to see Hillary Clinton in handcuffs.
HANNITY: And Hillary laughs off the notion that she'll be indicted for her server scandal. So how can she be so sure?
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: This convention process will be over with sometime in June, probably June 7th.
HANNITY: Trump's convention manager is confident that he will secure the nomination before July.
All of that, plus former 2016 Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee joins us.
And "Hannity" starts right here, right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HANNITY: And welcome to "Hannity." And tonight, we're just 11 days away from the New York primaries, and on the Republican side, Donald Trump -- well, he wants to make sure that voters remember what Ted Cruz said about, quote, "New York values." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Everyone understands that the values in New York City focus around money and the media.
TRUMP: I saw something that no place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And last night during an interview, Senator Ted Cruz stood by his remarks and said people knew what he meant. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Everyone in New York and outside of New York knows exactly what I meant by that, and it is the liberal values of Democratic politicians who have been hammering the people of New York for decades. They've suffered under these liberal values. It's been politicians like Governor Andrew Cuomo, like Hillary Clinton, like Mayor Bill de Blasio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, is he right? Well, yesterday, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani told The New York Post that he will be voting for Trump on the 19th, but he did stop short of fully endorsing him.
And when it came to Senator Cruz's comments, Giuliani said, quote, "It's New York City. We're family. I can make fun of New York, but you can't. I know he was attacking liberal Democratic values. I know. I fought to change those policies in areas like welfare reform and policing, as did, Mayor Bloomberg, but there was a better way to say it."
Joining us now with reaction, author David Limbaugh and from the Trump Organization, Michael Cohen, and of course, you know her, she is the co- host of "The Five," Kimberly Guilfoyle.
Is that going to be a big issue?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: Yes, I mean, it offended me right away, to be honest. I mean, I don't know why he thought that that was a good idea because eventually, you got to come to New York and should try to get all the states and not alienate, you know, voters.
So this is something that I think Trump is able to capitalize on, and he should. He should ride it all the way through the New York primary.
HANNITY: He wants 50 percent plus 1 in New York. He wants to...
GUILFOYLE: This will help him.
HANNITY: Yes. What do you think?
MICHAEL COHEN, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Yes, I think he's going to get more than 50 percent. And I'll tell you, I don't understand Ted Cruz's comment. If you think about it, other than Bill de Blasio now as mayor, before that, for 20 years, we were run under Republicans, both Giuliani, and of course, Mike Bloomberg. So I'm not really sure what Democratic values he was even referring to.
HANNITY: Yeah. David, your thoughts. Does that make a big difference? If Trump takes the majority of the 95 delegates in New York, that goes a long way to making it then mathematically impossible for Cruz to get to 1,237.
DAVID LIMBAUGH, "THE EMMAUS CODE" AUTHOR: Yes. And Kimberly, you know, I love you. I don't think I've ever disagreed with you. But this to me is a blown-up issue from -- from Trump, who I think is faltering after having lost Wisconsin, the negatives on women, the overall negatives, the fact that Cruz has done better since Rubio dropped out. There's all these signs.
Now, everyone knows, including Rudy, that Ted was only talking about liberal values. This is a GOP primary, for goodness sake! We're talking about New York with its confiscatory taxes, its transgender bathrooms, its multi-culturalism. Surely, we can be the defenders of liberty in a New York primary without worrying about political correctness.
Donald Trump stands for political correctness and yet he's pretending to be offended by this comment of Ted Cruz, when everyone knows it wasn't directed at the 9/11 first responders, it wasn't directed at GOP conservatives or Republicans. It was directed purely and simply at liberal values, which Donald Trump brought up in an interview with Tim Russert in 1999, which he couched in his pro-choice message at the time.
COHEN: Yes, why are we talking about 1999, Sean?
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: We're talking about -- this happened at the debate when Ted Cruz brought it up. And I believe Donald Trump was immediately, as was I as a New Yorker, who lost many friends in the World Trade Center attack -- he was offended, and I think all New Yorkers were offended.
HANNITY: Let me...
COHEN: And the interesting thing is he brings up Wisconsin, also. Why are you talking about Wisconsin? You're making it seem as if though (sic) the race is hinging upon, you know, Wisconsin and its delegates.
LIMBAUGH: You know -- you know the...
HANNITY: Go ahead, David.
LIMBAUGH: You know the context I brought Wisconsin up. The momentum has shifted to Ted Cruz. That's the context. And we're talking about pure liberalism. I don't -- the idea...
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: When you're talking about Wisconsin...
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: ... you guys are talking as if you've already won the race. Like I said the other day, be very careful what you say because the victory lap is really far away for Ted Cruz.
LIMBAUGH: I'm not saying that.
HANNITY: All right, let me -- let me -- let me jump in and bring up...
LIMBAUGH: Let's quit acting like this...
HANNITY: All right, David, you want to finish your thought? Go ahead.
LIMBAUGH: Well, let's quit acting like this is a high school debate where we have to take a position because we're required to be affirmative or negative. The truth is, we know what we're talking about...
COHEN: The truth is you're the one...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: All right, let me -- let me...
COHEN: I'm just responding to it. You're taking on a posture...
HANNITY: All right, hang on a second.
COHEN: ... where you're attacking Donald Trump. You turn around, you make it seem as if though Wisconsin is the end-all, be-all for this election. And I'm talking about...
GUILFOYLE: Well, Wisconsin's in the rear-view mirror now.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Let me -- let me go to an issue that I think you guys are actually going to agree on. You know, if you look at John Boehner's comments, talking about a contested convention and he brings up, Oh, anybody can be -- anybody's name can be nominated on the convention floor, and Karl Rove saying, Well, We need somebody who's battle tested, strong conservative principles, a fresh face -- he's not -- he's talking specifically about somebody that hasn't run.
Scott Walker has said it in a meeting in New York. John Kasich's campaign is based on it. And others have said it, as well.
Now, they don't make up the rules of the convention until all the voting is over.
GUILFOYLE: Right, right, right.
HANNITY: Do you think that there's a possibility the establishment will try to disenfranchise voters of Trump and Cruz?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think there's a real, distinct possibility that could happen. I think it would be a big mistake to fracture the party that way. This has been such a historic primary season. Yes, it's had its ups and downs, but what we have seen is a large volume of voter turnout, enthusiasm, people really standing for wanting positive change and not Washington politics as usual. Why wouldn't you embrace that, make a big tent, carry that forward to the convention and honor the votes that have been cast?
HANNITY: You know, you and I saying the same thing because at the end of the day, if they don't unite, it's going to open the door for Hillary.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: ... I agree with her 100 percent, and Donald Trump is that guy. He's the guy that seems to be the one that's bringing out the voters, not just Republicans but independents and Democrats. Why would you shoot the best messenger that the Republican Party has had in a long, long time?
HANNITY: What do you think, David? Do -- do you -- because I know, that for example, people -- we'll use Wisconsin as an example -- Scott Walker got on board. He had the infrastructure in that state. It certainly didn't hurt Ted Cruz on his path to victory there.
But here's the question. I get the impression that they're not talking about, well, stopping Trump to help Cruz, that they would sooner jump over both of them, leapfrog over both of them...
GUILFOYLE: Right.
HANNITY: ... and bring in, you know...
GUILFOYLE: Paul Ryan or...
HANNITY: ... some other third person, a Paul Ryan or somebody, and disenfranchise everybody.
GUILFOYLE: Well...
LIMBAUGH: There are certain people in the Republican Party who fantasize about that, who hate both Trump and Cruz. But I don't think it's a realistic possibility. As Newt says, when those two, Trump and Cruz, have received some 80 percent of the delegates and 80 percent of the votes, it's not realistic.
Reince Priebus is talking about it not being realistic. There's no monolithic force in the GOP establishment that has set out to do that. I think they know better than to do that. It would be the end of the Republican Party.
I think the problem with talking about this so much -- and people can talk all they want about it -- is that it obscures the fact that there can be a genuine fight in the convention if nobody ends up with 1,237 going in, and I want there to be a fair fight.
Cruz and Trump can fight after the first ballot, after the second ballot in a fair way, a legitimate way, in a way that regards process and the law and the rules. And whoever wins is legitimate as long as there's no shenanigans pulled.
And I don't want it to be perceived if Ted Cruz ends up winning...
HANNITY: All right, we got to break...
LIMBAUGH: ... because he pays attention to details...
HANNITY: Michael, you want to respond to that?
LIMBAUGH: ... that he was part of the establishment.
COHEN: By the way, I agree. I think it would be the absolute end to the Republican Party. I think that Reince Priebus knows it. I think everybody knows it. And I think if Mr. Trump -- number one, I think he's going to actually get to 1,237 when you take New York and California, which he should do, not to mention the Northeast. This is his territory. So he's the one who has the momentum right now.
HANNITY: All right, thank you all for being with us. Good to see you.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you.
HANNITY: And coming up on this busy Friday news night here on "Hannity"...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is not going to happen. There is not even the remotest chance that it's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And she's laughing, Hillary Clinton laughing about the possibility of her ending up behind bars because of her server scandal. We'll discuss that coming up next.
And later tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: This convention process will be over with sometime in June, probably June 7th, and it'll be apparent to the world that Trump is over the 1,237 number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Donald Trump's convention manager's predicting that his boss will clinch the GOP nomination before the convention. That's coming up later tonight.
And a quick programming note. Join us Monday 10:00 PM Eastern. I will be in Saratoga Springs in New York,interviewing 2016 GOP presidential candidate Ohio governor John Kasich for the hour. That's Monday 10:00 PM.
More "Hannity" coming up right after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So with just 11 days to go until the New York Democratic primary, Senator Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton -- they are fighting for every delegate in the Empire State.
But Hillary has more than just a few delegates to worry about. There's still that ongoing Comey investigation at the FBI over the server scandal. But during an interview with Matt Lauer earlier today, she didn't seem too concerned. She was yucking it up and laughing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT LAUER, "TODAY" CO-HOST: They say this...
(LAUGHTER)
LAUER: They say this, that they will get to see Hillary Clinton in handcuffs...
CLINTON: Oh, my goodness!
LAUER: ... that there will be some kind of political perp walk...
CLINTON: Oh (INAUDIBLE)
LAUER: ... based on your private e-mail server.
CLINTON: That -- well, Matt, I know that they live in that world of fantasy and hope because they've got a mess on their hands on the Republican side. That is not going to happen. There is not even the remotest chance that it's going to happen.
I think it's -- it's a security review. It is a security review. And there are lots of those that are conducted in our government all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Here with reaction, the chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, Jay Sekulow. Criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, our good friend, Robert Bianchi is with us. All right, Jay, let's start with you.
JAY SEKULOW, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE: Yes, sir.
HANNITY: You know, she can yuck it up and laugh all she wants. I can't imagine dozens and dozens of FBI agents have spent months on something -- Oh, this is no -- this is nothing, this is no big deal, you know, she's not going to be led away in handcuffs.
I don't think I'd be feeling that way, if I was her.
SEKULOW: Well, you know, she keeps calling it, and the media -- some in the media is doing this, as well. They keep calling this, Sean, a security review. I was a government lawyer in the beginning of my career, and this idea that this is a security review -- well, then it would have been conducted by the inspector general's office of the State Department.
This is not that. This is the FBI with numerous agents involved reviewing all of the information to determine, in fact, if there's been a violation of criminal law.
And this comes on the heels of in the last five weeks, two federal court judges call -- one calling her set-up extraordinary, another chastising the government for allowing this whole set-up to begin in the first place, and of course, accusing the government of cover-up.
So this idea that this is just some, you know, nonchalant security review that happens in every government agency -- the FBI does not usually engage in non-departmental security reviews. That would be handled by the inspector general's office. So there's a lot more to this.
The question will be, will the Department of Justice take the advice, if the FBI makes a determination, if they make the determination, and do what's called a CRL, a criminal reference letter, saying, Here's the case, to the Department of Justice, laying it on the table, sort to speak, will the Department of Justice take action? That become the political question.
HANNITY: Well, that becomes the big scandal. Robert, do you see a criminal referral coming out of this, based on what we know now from the inspector general of the intelligence community, dozens and dozens of these e-mails beyond top secret classification, special access program classification? Seems to me that the law was broken.
ROBERT BIANCHI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Sean, I've said this from the beginning of this case. The procedures and policies with regard to how these e-mails are allowed to move have not caught up with the modern times with regard to the technology and old laws. They're going to have to show that she knowingly, in my opinion, was violating the laws because as a former head prosecutor, we are not dancing on a pin on technicalities.
HANNITY: Well, I do have some evidence that she knew because she actually sent out a memo to the entire State Department warning them against the use of e-mails, in other words, work e-mails on private devices.
BIANCHI: Yes, but Sean, what people don't understand as far as what the U.S. attorneys do and what they FBI does, is they want rock solid cases they can prove to 12 folks beyond a reasonable doubt. And there's a lot of very subjective language in these statutes. For example, a case in 1941 indicated that even if you violate the Espionage Act, you have to show it was done with the intent to harm the interests of the United States.
HANNITY: But that's not the standard! Isn't the standard also...
SEKULOW: Well, how about the moving of the...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Go ahead.
SEKULOW: How about moving the server to a private location? I mean, that's the basic claim where this all started, that the server itself, her personal server, where these e-mails came that were top secret and special access, were actually moved to a private non-governmental, non-approved, not secured server in Colorado. That and in itself -- and listen, I had to try cases, too, a government lawyer, and I don't disagree with Robert. You can't do it on mere hope. You've got to have evidence. But that to me -- we should not lose sight of the fact...
(CROSSTALK)
SEKULOW: ... but it was the server itself.
HANNITY: And gross -- in other words, don't -- the handling of it, if that was -- in other words, if they mishandled such sensitive information, isn't that a crime in and of itself, Jay?
SEKULOW: Yes. And I think what's happening is everybody's getting caught up in the individual e-mails, which believe me, are problematic and obviously if they're beyond top secret, where Congress can't even have access to them, or as you mentioned the special access e-mails -- that's problematic. Those are all parts of a crime.
Now, I don't disagree with Robert that -- because I had to do this. When you've got to prove your case in court beyond a reasonable doubt, I mean, that's a tough standard. But the reality is, the FBI -- I don't believe -- Robert probably doesn't, either -- believe this is simply a security review.
HANNITY: All right, well, let me...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's beyond the pale there.
HANNITY: Why did they give Tagliano, a guy who pled the 5th, immunity now?
BIANCHI: They're giving him immunity because he exercised his right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment, and they may want his testimony not only to maybe seek a conviction or evidence to further the investigation, but also to exonerate. I did that plenty of times when somebody had relevant information and they were able to assert the 5th Amendment.
You have to be careful here because the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office is not going to be prosecuting a case with fuzzy language and facts, especially when there's been a custom and practice of using private servers or private e-mails before. And those people...
HANNITY: That is not exactly accurate. I know that's the Democratic talking point. It's not accurate because nobody went to the length and the depth that Hillary Clinton did. She put her server at a mom and pop shop. It ended up in a bathroom closet!
BIANCHI: Agreed.
HANNITY: And we're talking about top secret information where American methods and names of people and operatives could be compromised and maybe end up getting killed!
BIANCHI: I don't disagree with that, Sean. But you're right, it is different because she had her own server. The other people were using things like Yahoo! and Gmail that are going outside...
HANNITY: Not the extent she did!
(CROSSTALK)
SEKULOW: The reality is, 18 UC C section 19 to 24 -- and this is where there's not fuzz -- this isn't fuzzy -- says if you knowingly and willfully put the material in an unauthorized location, it is a crime punishable by one year in prison...
HANNITY: Is that a felony?
SEKULOW: ... and $10,000 or both. That's 1819-24. That's the criminal code. So the question -- I go back to the server issue. That's different than the way anybody else set this up. And an occasional use of a personal e-mail account is one thing. and intentional act -- and this is where the government would have to meet its burden. And intentional act to set up the server to circumvent the safeguards that are in place within the State Department -- that's the problem for Hillary Clinton.
Now, again, the political question will be will they indict? But I don't believe that, by the way -- and Robert may know more about this particular case than I do. I don't think they gave immunity because they think it's going to exonerate anybody. It may not just be Hillary Clinton, by the way. It may be other people that they're targeting here. We don't know that.
BIANCHI: And I agree with that, too. And that statute that you just read is the right statute, but it also says "with the intent," which means it was...
(CROSSTALK)
BIANCHI: ... that they have to prove. And you know, counsel, as well as I do, how difficult it is to prove intent without some direct evidence. Now, maybe they gave immunity to this guy because he has that direct evidence.
But right now, I think this is going to be a very difficult case for the government to prove, and the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office does not like going into courtrooms with cases that talk about intent, when there's policies and procedures that have gone on for many years where this whole thing has been very fuzzy.
SEKULOW: But Robert, the thing is, this doesn't go -- I don't think it goes -- this is not the typical case where it's going to go from FBI to DOJ...
HANNITY: All right, last-
SEKULOW: ... and right to a U.S. attorney.
HANNITY: Last question...
SEKULOW: There's a lot more politics involved here.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... criminal referral?
BIANCHI: ... the FBI to DOJ, and there's a thought process there...
HANNITY: Do you think that criminal...
BIANCHI: ... of whether they're going to move forward on this.
HANNITY: ... referral happens, Jay? Yes or no?
SEKULOW: I think it's -- you know, look, I think that the risk for Hillary Clinton is great. But the reality is, indicting the former secretary of state would be a big step. The president would basically, through the justice Department, would have to authorize it.
HANNITY: But does the FBI recommend...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Is there a criminal referral by the FBI?
SEKULOW: I would not be surprised at all if there's a recommendation on a criminal referral.
(CROSSTALK)
BIANCHI: I've said it before, I say it right now...
(CROSSTALK)
BIANCHI: Yes. There will not be a referral on the substantive allegations unless during the course of the investigation, there was an intent to obstruct justice by hiding something. If there is, then...
SEKULOW: Well, that's a different case.
BIANCHI: ... there is a problem.
HANNITY: My guess is, knowing the Clintons, that happened. All right, thank you both.
Coming up next tonight on "Hannity"...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: This convention process will be over with sometime in June, probably June 7th. And it'll be apparent to the world that Trump is over the 1,237 number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, that was Donald Trump's convention manager confidently saying that Trump will clinch the nomination before July. That's next.
Also tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, D-FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Black Lives Matter protesters interrupting a Bill Clinton speech during a rally yesterday. We'll play you the rest of that response and get reaction from Larry Elder, Eric Guster as we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: The reality is, Ted Cruz has seen his best day. The reality is, this convention process will be over with sometime in June, probably June 7th. And it'll be apparent to the world that Trump is over the 1,237 number, and at that point in time, when it is apparent, everything's going to come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, that was Trump's convention manager, Paul Manafort, confidently proclaiming that Trump will clinch the GOP nomination before the convention in July. Here with reaction, research fellow at Hoover Institute Lanhee Chen, pollster Lee Carter and former adviser to President Ronald Reagan Ed Rollins.
Ed, you believe that?
ED ROLLINS, FOX POLITICAL ANALYST: Well...
HANNITY: It's going to June 7th.
ROLLINS: It's going to June 7th. I know Paul very well, and Paul's a very competent guy and a great addition to that campaign.
That's assuming they're going to do very, very well in New York and assuming they're going to do very well in California. I know California. That's my home state. And the structural people that are on the Cruz campaign out there have been the former party chairman and what have you. Not a moderate state (INAUDIBLE) conservatives, and there's a lot of people that know -- you know, you go to Nancy Pelosi's district and you win 300 votes, you get 3 delegates. Go to Orange County, you got to win 60,000, 70,000. They know that state well. I don't think the Trump people do yet and they shouldn't make an assumption they're going to win it all.
HANNITY: So -- but they have time...
(CROSSTALK)
ROLLINS: They have time. And I think -- I think, obviously, that's a good goal to have. I assume neither are going to have the delegates before the-- the...
HANNITY: So you think it's going to be contested.
ROLLINS: I think it's going to be contested, and I think it's going to basically -- the last week or month, they're going to be fighting real hard to get these...
HANNITY: Lanhee Chen, how do you see it coming down?
LANHEE CHEN, HOOVER INSTITUTE: Yes, you know, I agree with that. I think it's probably going to be contested. The one thing about California -- you know, Ed's absolutely right. John Kasich could be a factor out here. Particularly in the Bay area, in Silicon Valley, Kasich's actually doing pretty well, and I think Kasich is a problem for Trump because those somewhat conservative and moderate voters potentially could go for Trump were it not for Kasich.
But it all comes down to California. He's got to do well in New York. He's got to do well in the April 26 states, like Pennsylvania, Connecticut and Maryland. And I think -- in either case, I don't see him getting to 1,237 before the convention, Sean.
HANNITY: All right, he doesn't get to 1,238. Let's go -- Lee, if we can, just go over potential possibilities, hypotheticals. So Trump has 1,100, 1,150, Cruz has 850, 900. What happens then?
LEE CARTER, POLLSTER: Yes, I think it's going to go contested, as we're all saying. But I think, you know, if it's really, really close, I think it's got to be -- I mean, I think if Trump gets to 1,200, 1,150 and we're talking really close, which it looks like there's math that can get him there, then if he can pull it off in the first round -- and I think he can-- then Trump can be our candidate.
HANNITY: You think he could get -- what do you think? What -- if you had to guess what the numbers are delegate-wise after June 7th, what do you think it's going to be?
ROLLINS: I think -- I think Trump will be probably 150 short. He may be able to make that up. But that's the real battle. That's the swapping. I think that if...
HANNITY: Does he team up with Kasich? Does he team up with Cruz?
ROLLINS: You know, the -- Kasich doesn't want to be vice president at this point in time. He still wants to be president, and he's kind of eluding himself. I think the reality here, if Trump doesn't make it in the first ballot and it goes to second and third, I think Cruz gets stronger because you got all the delegates getting free. And what the Cruz campaign is doing very effectively, and they've got tremendous operatives, they're lining people up to go for that second, third ballot, which is very important.
HANNITY: So they -- they were -- they -- they just have -- they know it's contested.
ROLLINS: They know -- they know...
HANNITY: They can't win 1,237.
ROLLINS: They know they can't win 1,237, but they are doing better on some of these things that are going on the last few days here, these...
HANNITY: Yes.
ROLLINS: And the Trump people sort of walked away from these little conventions and what have you, Colorado being a perfect...
HANNITY: Mistake?
ROLLINS: Big mistake. You got to go after every single delegate, every place. You know, he could have wrapped this thing up a month ago if he would have had a team like he's putting together now.
HANNITY: Lanhee?
CHEN: Yes, you know, Sean, back in 2012, this was something the Romney campaign did very well, to make sure that the delegates that were being selected in these regional, in these local and these state conventions were people that were going to be with Romney to the end, and that's what Cruz has been doing.
And in California -- I remember a year ago, Sean, I was at the California Republican Party convention out there. Cruz folks were organizing even a year ago. So they've got a big head start in California. They're going to do well in Orange County, San Diego, probably some parts of the Central Valley...
HANNITY: Well, they seem to be doing well...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... Inland Empire, Los Angeles area, Central Valley, California. A lot of delegates in those areas, and Trump doing better in other parts of the state, up north and elsewhere. So it's going to be interesting.
Lee, what do you predict it's going to be, if you had to give a delegate a count now, at the end of June 7th?
CARTER: Look, I think that if he has a big day on the 19th and a big day on the 26th, then I think he's going to have momentum, and I think he can strike within 100. If he strikes within 100 -- and I think that is the key number. He's got to strike within 100 in order to take it in the first round.
And he has to take it in the first round if he's going to take it because, like everyone's been saying, everybody else has a stronger game in a second or third round. And what's been going on with Ryan recently -- you've seen what he's doing. I think there's other people that are trying to take it in the second or the third round. So he's got to strike within 100, and I think he can as long as he has a strong of days as he's hoping to on the 19th and 26th.
HANNITY: All right, guys, good to see you tall, thank you.
Coming up next tonight, right here on HANNITY --
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BILL CLINTON: You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.
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HANNITY: All right, Bill Clinton apologized for that. He was responding to Black Lives Matter protesters in an event yesterday. We'll check in with Larry Elder and Eric Guster. They're coming up next.
And later tonight, former 2016 GOP presidential candidate Governor Mike Huckabee is here. Stay with us.
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HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So yesterday at a rally in Philly Bill Clinton was disrupted by Black Lives Matter protesters, and this is how he responded. Take a look.
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BILL CLINTON: I like protesters. But the ones that won't let you answer are afraid of the truth. That's a simple rule. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
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BILL CLINTON: I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out on to the street to murder other African-American children, maybe you thought they were good citizens. She didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.
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HANNITY: All right, joining us now with reaction, Salem Radio and CRN talk show host Larry Elder and political commentator, trial attorney Eric Guster. It is interesting, Larry, after a day of that kind of going viral a little bit and a lot of news picking up on it, he's now apologized for basically telling the truth. And the truth is there is a lot of black on black murder and crime that gets zero publicity or zero commentary by a lot of people in the media if it's not Ferguson, if it's not Trayvon Martin.
LARRY ELDER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Right.
HANNITY: Very different, but double standard, right?
ELDER: Absolutely. You know, I've long been on record, Sean, as saying that the drug problem, which is what this 1994 bill was largely about, should be dealt with as a public health problem as opposed to a criminal justice problem. That said, the other thing that Bill Clinton could have said, Sean, is that of the 34 members of the Congressional Black Caucus, 23 of them voted for this bill. So if they're mad at him they ought to be mad at a whole bunch of other people.
And people like Jesse Jackson were leading the fight to strengthen the anti-drug laws because so many people in the inner city were being murdered, being killed, being exploited just as Bill Clinton said.
HANNITY: Some of these protesters actually accused, Eric Guster, Hillary of profiting from black people's pain yesterday. Did you see that?
ERIC GUSTER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I did not see that part, but Hillary has really done a poor job with the African-American community. For example, with this, with Bill Clinton actually trying to lash out at the protesters, the Clintons are extremely upset with black people holding them accountable for the things that they did. Hillary's saying super predators and other derogatory things like that. People -- they are being held accountable finally for their --
HANNITY: Why am I put in the position of defending Hillary Clinton? Although there is a double standard, if a conservative said it, they'd be excoriated. Hillary for the most part got a pass on it until recently when somebody brought it up at a town hall. But the reality is there are super predators. It's not race related.
GUSTER: Bill Clinton's, his criminal law policies were really impactful in the African-American community. And that's what people are finally holding them accountable for. The Clintons had a pass with African-Americans for years and years, I mean, two election cycles.
HANNITY: But why should -- is what Bill Clinton said true or false? What he said, is that true or false?
GUSTER: What he said is actually false, because what Bill Clinton was trying to deflect from, people were trying to hold him accountable for the things that he did and as well as what Hillary did. And he was trying to deflect from the actual issue.
HANNITY: Do you think it was true, Larry?
ELDER: Why are we pretending there's not a crime problem in the inner city? Come on. The number one preventable cause of death for young black men is homicide. The number one preventable cause of death for young white men is car accidents. There is a disproportionate amount of crime in the inner city affecting other black people.
Of the non-suicide gun deaths in America, half of them are black people killing other black people, usually young people. Often gang related. There's a real problem, and the problem has to do with the breakdown of the black family. If you want to argue and blame somebody, blame left wing policies that have encouraged women to marry the government and men to abandon their financial and moral responsibility. I didn't say it. Obama said if you grow up -- let me finish. Let me finish. If you grow up without a dad, you are five times more likely to be poor and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of school, 20 times more likely to go to jail. That's what we ought to be talking about here.
GUSTER: But I never said that it's not an issue. I never said that there is not an issue with black on black crime as far as the community and fighting drugs and fighting gun violence. But when Bill Clinton was actually being held accountable for the things that he did where there is a school to prison pipeline that was enacted by lot of his policies, he's being held accountable.
HANNITY: Is black America, we're in the eighth year of Obama's presidency. I can give you all the stats. We've doubled the debt. Millions more in poverty, millions more on food stamps, the lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. Is black America better off having had Obama and his liberal policies in place?
GUSTER: Who are you pitching that question to you?
HANNITY: That would be you.
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GUSTER: No. I didn't -- I didn't hear my name on who's answering the question.
HANNITY: OK, is black America better off?
GUSTER: Black America is not better off. But a lot of those issues came from the Bush era with --
HANNITY: Eight years later, you blame Bush? Really? Really? Eight years later?
GUSTER: The wars that we have been in, that was Bush. The search for weapons of mass destruction --
HANNITY: All right, we have already litigated the Bush years. Eight years later black America is not better off, is it? Larry Elder.
GUSTER: You're talking about the deficit. That was one of the points that you made was talking about the deficit, and that was caused by Bush.
ELDER: Sean, Sean, from the period of 2010-2013, about 30 percent decline in black net worth. That happened on Barack Obama's watch. The poverty level has increased under Obama. That's on his racket. The black labor force participation rate, the percentage of blacks working or looking for a job at a 40-year low. And the so-called wealth gap between black families and white families is at a 25-year high. You cannot blame that on either one of the Bushes, my friend.
HANNITY: All right, we have to leave it there.
GUSTER: Bush put those things in play and the Congress would not work with Barack Obama on his policies. That is a problem. The Congress was horrible.
HANNITY: After eight years, can you take a little responsibility? Eight years. Things didn't change.
GUSTER: I always blame when it's due. But this is not -- this is not --
HANNITY: Eight years, 55 percent of black teenagers can't get a job, Eric. He's not helping the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: -- blocking him.
HANNITY: I have to run. All right, thank you.
ELDER: Sean, real quickly, at least he's not blaming global warming.
HANNITY: Could be worse.
All right, coming up, former 2016 Republican presidential candidate Governor Mike Huckabee, he'll join us to break down the state of the Republican race. Who does he think will win New York and the rest of the primaries? Stay with us.
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HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So voters in the empire state and New York state will head to the polls in just 11 days. Joining us now to weigh in on the state of the race, former 2016 presidential candidate, Governor Mike Huckabee. Look, when you ran, there was a lot of tension. You ran in the Bush years when he won and Mitt Romney and John McCain. There was a lot of tension in those years. Right now I would argue that Cruz supporters hate Trump, Trump supporters hate Cruz. It doesn't seem like there's a path to reconciliation. Do you see one?
MIKE HUCKABEE, R-FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the only reconciliation, Sean, comes when it's all settled, we have a nominee, and they realize it's either that Republican nominee or Hillary Clinton. And when they really think about that, even the people who say I would never vote for Trump, I cannot imagine that there's any Republican anywhere who honestly thinks Hillary Clinton would be a better president. Same thing with Cruz. There are people who just don't like Ted Cruz, but if it came down to Cruz and Hillary, I cannot imagine somebody says, yes, I take Hillary. I just don't believe we're going to get there.
HANNITY: We have talked a lot about John Kasich mathematically not having a path to 1,237. It is probably likely after April 26th that Ted Cruz won't have that path. Does that matter? Should that matter?
HUCKABEE: Well, a lot of people have been saying John Kasich ought to get out. I've never said that and I don't think he should, because he knows that his only way to win is not mathematically the 1,237 before the convention but it's being one of the candidates still in the race at the convention if things completely blow apart and they look for someone other than Cruz and Trump.
Now, Ted Cruz is kind of in a conundrum because Cruz has been saying that there's no mathematical possibility therefore Kasich has to get out. If that in fact becomes the case for Ted Cruz after April 27th then the question that every reporter is going to legitimately ask him, does that mean you have to get out? And that's a question he's going to answer one of two things, either yes, I'm going to have to get out, or, no, I was just using a double standard against John Kasich.
HANNITY: You see all the work the Cruz campaign is doing behind the scenes, all the delegate outreach they're involved in. They are prepared now for a contested convention, correct?
HUCKABEE: Exactly. And that's why it was so disingenuous to say that Kasich should get out because he doesn't have a pathway. Kasich shouldn't get out because his pathway is very clear to him. And besides, it is not Ted Cruz's business or Donald Trump's or mine or anybody else to tell John Kasich to get out of the race. It's John Kasich's decision to make.
HANNITY: It has been my position that I think the establishment hates Trump and Cruz, and now --
HUCKABEE: I don't think there's any doubt.
HANNITY: You see the establishment, for example, in Wisconsin coalescing behind Ted Cruz and offering up Scott Walker, you know, Scott Walker's support, probably one state where it really was effective. Is that just to stop Trump or is it because they're coalescing behind Cruz because they believe he'd be the best guy?
HUCKABEE: I think it is obvious that it's to stop Trump because you don't see any of these folks really saying we love Ted Cruz. Most of them don't. And there are some establishment Republicans who are coming around very clearly to Donald Trump. I mean, Rudy Giuliani has said he will vote for Trump. You've got people like Jeff Sessions, nobody can question whether Jeff Sessions is an authentic conservative and a true, genuine Republican. Look at Chris Christie. So you have a number of people that validate that Donald Trump is a very legitimate Republican candidate.
HANNITY: Last question. If they leapfrog over the two top delegate winners, vote getters, state winners, and they go with an outsider or somebody else, don't you think that is going to create such anger, chaos, and resentment at that convention that a lot of people might just stay away in November?
HUCKABEE: I think if that were to happen, Sean, my view is that we're going to see no less than a political mushroom cloud coming out of Cleveland because I do think it would be discouraging to have the supporters of Trump -- I plan to leave before we turned into particles of dust, right?
HANNITY: Right.
HUCKABEE: It would be a total disaster, Sean.
HANNITY: So in other words, do you think the person with the most delegates at the end of the process, even if it's short of 1,237, should they get it?
HUCKABEE: I would think that that is the smart play simply because it's going to be very difficult to unsort it any other way. What do you do? Give it to the person who didn't get the most delegates?
HANNITY: Is it likely that you're either going to see Trump team up with Cruz as unlikely as that seems today, or Trump team up with Kasich or Cruz trying to team up with Kasich, do you see that unfolding?
HUCKABEE: I think there is less of a chance of Trump and Cruz getting together. I guess anything is possible.
HANNITY: I don't see it either.
HUCKABEE: I think I will see Bernie and Hillary Clinton team up, and I don't think that's going to happen. Look, I just think the rancor between the two of them is too deep not only between the two of them but between their supporters.
HANNITY: Shouldn't Kasich, though, be on the top of anybody's VP list considering no Republican has been elected president without Ohio?
HUCKABEE: Well, and John Kasich brings other things. He has been a very effective, successful governor. He understands Washington. He was an effective Congressman. He has all credentials. So absolutely he ought to be on the top of anybody's list, that is a more likely scenario is that either Trump or Cruz would make a deal with Kasich, not with each other. I just don't see that happening. I truly believe it would be easier --
HANNITY: What would be the most likely combo to come out of that? Who do you think Kasich would more likely align with?
HUCKABEE: Hard to say. But, you know, Kasich is smart enough to realize if Trump has the most delegates, the greatest chance. If Trump and Kasich get together and Kasich were to give his delegates over to Trump, then he has enough, he wins the nomination, and it's game, set, match.
HANNITY: All right, why are you the only one that doesn't seem -- everyone gets out of this process, they're all furious. There's a lot of anger out there, governor. It's not pretty.
HUCKABEE: You know, it's not pretty, and ultimately we have to realize this is not about just our own passions. This is about the future of our country, and I believe the future of our country is in better hands -- I said this back when I was one of 17 on the stage. Any one of us on that stage would be better than any of the Republican - the Democrats when there are four of them. And I say it today. It's still to me as clear as it was back then.
HANNITY: All right, governor, good to see you. I hope people hear that admonition. I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you, sir.
HUCKABEE: You bet.
HANNITY: Coming up, this Friday night, we need your help. A very important "Question of the Day" straight ahead.
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HANNITY: Time for the "Question of the Day." So in light of what Trump's convention manager said, do you think Donald Trump will clench the nomination before the convention? Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think, let us know what you think. Quick programming note. We'll be in upstate New York, Saratoga Springs, Monday in New York interviewing 2016 presidential candidate Ohio Governor John Kasich for the hour. That's Monday, 10:00 p.m.
But that's all the time we have left this evening. Thanks for being with us. We hope you have a great weekend. We'll see you on Monday. Hope you'll join us.
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