Newt Gingrich: Trump is at a real turning point in his campaign; Ben Carson: Republicans need to stop creating tension

Trump endorser calls for maturity in the GOP on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," April 7, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight. Donald Trump making some serious campaign changes in an attempt to lock up the Republican nomination for president.

Welcome to THE KELLY FILE, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Just days after Donald Trump lost the Wisconsin primary to rival Ted Cruz, a brand new poll from the Associated Press defines the challenge for the general election.
Right now, nearly seven in 10 Americans have an unfavorable opinion of Donald Trump. And that includes whites, blacks, and Latinos, men and women, and more. The survey -- not more than me and women -- other is -- the survey sampled voters from across the country, even before this poll, however. A series of reports today suggested the Trump campaign is getting serious about building more support, about getting ready for policy speeches and trying to win more support in Washington. They're hiring more political pros, as well to help with the delegate battle. We have got the campaign trail covered for you tonight with Newt Gingrich, Charles Krauthammer, Karl Rove and Ben Carson.

But we begin tonight with Trace Gallagher reporting from our West coast newsroom on the Trump campaign and the changes there. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, after weeks of saying a contested convention would be unfair, would have too much influence from party leaders or could lead to riots, it appears the Trump campaign has done the math and realizes a contested contention as a strong possibility and is now preparing to play ball in Cleveland. Today Trump announced that one of his newest hires, lobbyist Paul Manafort who has worked for several presidents will now quoting, "Oversee, manage and be responsible for all activities to Mr. Trump delegate process and the Cleveland Convention." But critics say, Manafort is going to be playing catchup to what many called Ted Cruz's effective ground campaign that by many accounts has already wooed several, if not dozens of free agent delegates and delegates that would be unbound after the first convention vote.

The Trump campaign is also shifting and expanding. First, reaching out to prominent GOP lawmakers in Washington, looking for support. And now planning to hire some big names to help the campaign effort. But these high profile moves come as the candidate himself is keeping a low profile. Donald Trump has cleared his schedule for the next few days cancelling a news conference in California and skipping the Colorado State GOP Convention. In the past 48 hours, Trump's media omnipresence has also largely disappeared. The only scheduled interviews we could find was with Brian Kilmeade. The campaign says, this is not an indication Trump is lacking energy, only that he's working hard to run his campaign and his multibillion dollar company -- Megyn.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Trace, thank you. Well, our lead guest tonight is Newt Gingrich, former speaker of the House and author of the book "Duplicity." Mr. Speaker, it's great to see you. I can't get enough of that. You know me.

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I just love to hear you say that.

KELLY: I can't wait to read it now.

GINGRICH: Here we go.

KELLY: Let's talk about this AP poll. This is how they put it. They say for Americans of nearly every race gender political persuasion and location disdain for Donald Trump runs deep saddling the Republican frontrunner with unprecedented unpopularity. I mean, when they're saying70 percent of the country doesn't like him, and by the way, it's not much better for his rivals, but let's just start with Trump, what does that portend for this race and including the general election?

GINGRICH: Well, you don't quite know. Clearly it means that at some point in your future, he has got to pivot and try to figure out messages and tactics that reach a lot more people. It could lead you particularly because I think Secretary Clinton's numbers are pretty negative, too.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

GINGRICH: You could end up with one of these weird races where the least unpopular survives at the very end, which would not I think be healthy for the country. I would rather have a positive race where you actually have ideas and a choice of two philosophies. But Trump clearly -- look, I think it's actually good that he's off the trail for a couple of days. He had a particular shtick. It was amazing, it got him from June the 16th to about three weeks ago. He should have hired somebody like Paul Manafort about six weeks ago. He's now finally being taken seriously, the need to run a much bigger campaign. And I think in that sense, stopping, taking a deep breath, doing some planning, is more important than the next six rallies in terms of whether or not he survives. He's at a real turning point at his campaign and he has to get this larger act together or he won't be competitive.

KELLY: What do you make of the fact that the numbers got worse for him since February? So this poll had him about, I don't know, around 58 percent unfavorable back in July. And then still all the way through February, he's at 58 percent unfavorable. And then it jumps up 11 points to 69 percent unfavorable just as of late March into this early April period. So what was it? I mean, we're all talking about the Heidi-Cruz tweet, you know, the abortion like, what did that?

GINGRICH: I think there were a series of things like that that were mishandled and I also think he had a particular technique of attacking, which worked very, very well, up through Marco Rubio. But then there was a moment where people got tired of it. And he's been trying to use it on Cruz and it doesn't work. I thought the statement that the Trump people put out after Wisconsin was exactly wrong. You know, we have a tradition in America. If the other guy beats you fair and square, you're gracious. You say, you know, Ted Cruz had a great night, welcome to New York.

KELLY: Mitt Romney did that with you when you won South Carolina.

GINGRICH: Exactly. In fact, he called me and he said, yes, we have a big victory here tonight. So I think Donald would actually be better off to be a little more gracious and he'd be very well off to stop and take seriously these polling numbers. Doesn't mean they can't change --

KELLY: Uh-hm.

GINGRICH: It doesn't mean the race is over. There was a 36-point swing for Ronald Reagan between March and the election. There was something like a 25-point swing for George H.W. Bush between May and the election of 1988. So you can have very big swings but you don't get there by accident and you don't get there by continuing to do the things that aren't working.

KELLY: Right. Because right now, he's got everybody beating up on him.
He has got Ted Cruz beating up on him, John Kasich, he has got these Super PACs. Even Hillary, you know, he's not the nominee yet, is releasing ads against him. And so he's sort of bloodied and bruised right now. But, you know, if he can get on message, and just sort of stay on a sort of clean message, pro-Republicans and anti-Hillary or whatever, he'll do much better.

GINGRICH: He'll do a lot better almost overnight if he shifts his messaging. And I think if he gives a serious and major speeches, for example, if he gives a serious speech, that's well thought out, much like the AIPAC speech was on the kind of judges he would appoint, and if he has a set of names that the conservative leadership in this country can say wow, that would be the right kind of people to replace Scalia. That's a building block back. It doesn't solve everything, but there are a series of speeches like that that could actually bring you back a long way.

KELLY: Uh-hm. And fewer distractions where, you know, sort of these meandering down the mean tweet lane.

GINGRICH: I think he ought of have. And I say this, somebody who has gotten himself in trouble occasionally with tweeting and everything else, I think it would be very healthy for Trump to have somebody else read all of his tweets before they go out.

KELLY: I think he should hire Dana Perino. She's the best communications person in Republican politics.


She can be the clearing house before he sends anything else. I want to ask
you about --  

GINGRICH: I'll tell you what, if he announces Dana Perino is helping him, you'll know he's turned a corner.

KELLY: And reaching out --

GINGRICH: That's right.

KELLY: I want to ask you about his rivals because I mentioned at the beginning. Ted Cruz is viewed unfavorably by 59 percent, only ten points lower than Donald Trump I guess better in this context. And 55 percent have negative views of Hillary Clinton. So she comes to New York today, this is her adopted home state, and this was her outreach to show she's a woman of the people, Mr. Speaker. She's trying to get on the subway. She runs the metro card. No, try again. No. We've all been there, we've all been there Madame Secretary. No. But does anybody believe that Hillary Clinton is taking the subway and that seeing her on the subway makes her real and we can relate to her? You tell me, is this effective politics?

GINGRICH: The problem, the deepest problem Secretary Clinton has, and I worked with her before. She's a very smart person. The biggest problem she has is, that she is authentically inauthentic. You know, that she cannot do anything that's authentic, because she calculates and she thinks, I mean, nobody believes Hillary Clinton is a woman of the subway.

KELLY: Right. And we don't need her to be. Right? It's like --  


KELLY: Who needs her to be?

GINGRICH: You know, one of Roger Ailes great advice was to Richard Nixon in 1967 when he said to him, you have to learn to be who you really are on television, because television doesn't let you lie. And he said, and the fact is, you're not going to be likable, but you can be respectable.
People can decide in the middle of a war, you're the guy they respect to lead the country. And the whole Nixon strategy with television was built around realizing what his weaknesses were and then playing to his strengths. Hillary could come across as a serious, hardworking, practical person if she would relax, but she wants to overreach. She wants us to believe she's all these things she's not.

KELLY: Uh-hm. And it's fine to be -- you know she's a former First Lady, Secretary, so we know somebody else has been driving her. That's fine. That's a nice life. Most of us would like to lead that life. We’re not going to hold it against her if she doesn’t go on the subway.

GINGRICH: If I can charge as much for speeches as she was charging, I wouldn't feel like he needs the subway very often.

KELLY: Right. By the way, Roger Ailes said similar things to me, not the part about being unlikable but he also said that stuff to me about your authentic self on television.


GINGRICH: I want to reassure you, you're much more likable than Richard Nixon was.


KELLY: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, great to see you.


KELLY: Well, some folks in the Bronx today shared a New York welcome for Senator Ted Cruz.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an immigrant community, Ted Cruz!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigrant community, Ted!


KELLY: Charles Krauthammer joins us next on that, and what's next in this Republican race. Plus --


The Obama administration is now arguing to give a whole list of benefits to the illegal immigrants known as dreamers. We'll look at whether the Supreme Court is going to sign off.

And then -- new fallout tonight after former President Bill Clinton gets into a shouting match with the Black Lives Matter Movement. A hot KELLY FILE still ahead. Don't go away.


BILL CLINTON, D,, 42ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are defending the people who kill the lives that you say matter. Tell the truth.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know this is an immigrant community?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you get your Bronx visa? You're not allowed in the Bronx.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you, Cruz. God bless you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of the Bronx.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an immigrant community, Ted Cruz!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an immigrant community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) but you are not welcome here. We're at the forefront of climate change, Ted Cruz. We're at the forefront of climate change here.


KELLY: So we're putting him down as a maybe. Breaking tonight from the campaign trail, Senator Ted Cruz gets a rather rough welcome from the big apple as he begins campaigning in New York. You heard those folks in the Bronx, and also from Mr. Trump, who wanted to remind folks about Ted Cruz and New York values. Watch.


TRUMP: You know, lying Ted Cruz came today. He couldn't draw 100 people. Do you remember during the debate, when he started lecturing me on New York values, like we're no good? And I've got this guy standing over there looking at me, talking about New York values, with scorn on his face, with hatred, with hatred of New York. So folks, I think you can forget about him.


KELLY: Joining me now, Charles Krauthammer, FOX News contributor and author of the book, "Things That Matter" now out in paperback. Charles, good to see you. And so, first of all, New Yorkers are just so colorful.
I mean, they put it all out there. You know, there's no ambiguity about how they feel about you, which is something we always love about them. And it doesn't seem like they're feeling the Cruz train right now.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No. I think that's the definition of a Bronx cheer, the reception he got in the Bronx. And I think what he ought to do is to examine -- to look at his advance team and to find the guy who picked that venue. It wasn't exactly very wise. Look, it was a fairly uncivil reception he got. But it's New York. It's loud. And it's allowed. That's called free speech. It was not -- the problem with Cruz is, he's coming off the Wisconsin win and the definition of momentum is to keep it going. And I think it kind of stop right in its tracks today in the Bronx, and with the Trump speech about New York values.

KELLY: Uh-hm. And now, you know, Ted Cruz is basically saying, you forget about that stuff. I was really just talking about the really Liberal politicians.

KRAUTHAMMER: Look, I think he made -- what he did in that debate months ago was a classic case of what you would call a gaffe with a long fuse. There was a dozen ways in which he could have made that charge against Trump without using the adjective "New York." Of course, it didn't hurt him in Iowa. I don't think it helped him in any way. But it was a huge mistake, because one day he was going to end up in New York. Look, there is no way around that gaffe. He can try to explain it saying, well, I was talking about the politicians. But that's just not going to work. In fact, what he did in that debate is by saying New York values, he served up for Trump the opportunity for his strongest response in any of the 11 debates.

KELLY: Uh-hm. These guys were probably not thinking at the time that New York was going to be relevant in this race.


KELLY: But now it is very much. So, let me as you about that.


KELLY: Because even if Trump gets over 50 percent in New York state, he doesn't necessarily win all the delegates here. You have to win each Congressional district, as well. So Ted Cruz could pick some off. And it looks right now, like even if Trump has a great result in New York and he's posed to with over 30 points in his favor, we're still likely headed for a contested convention. So with what we just talked about with Newt Gingrich, about you know, Donald Trump has 69 and the American public having very unfavorable opinions of him. Ted Cruz at 59 percent, very unfavorable. How do you see this shaping up?

KRAUTHAMMER: I think the best analysis right now would be to say that Trump has to win on the first ballot, that he's likely to be denied the nomination if it goes to multiple ballots. Because he will only get weaker as the candidates -- as the delegates are released from their obligations.
I still think he has a reasonable chance to win on the first ballot. I would assume that if he got close, within 50 or so, it would be like giving somebody a three-foot putt. And it would be a way to garner a view of the uncommitted delegates.

But if he's, you know, 100 away or more, and most importantly, if Cruz comes reasonably close, say 200 delegates behind, so it's not a huge gap. It's not like the gap between them and Kasich, then I think Cruz has a claim to legitimacy. After all, if neither gets the majority, if they both have a large plurality with Trump perhaps ahead but not prohibitively so, then I think each has a chance. Trump has to win, I think, on the first ballot.

KELLY: What do you make of these general election polls that show Trump versus Hillary, she's beating him in most of the polls by ten points. She's also beating Cruz by about three points. Kasich is beating her, but he's so far behind, I don't know that's relevant. The Cruz and the Trump people both say just let me at her. Just once it's just me and her, don't worry, those numbers are going to flip.

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, they could. I mean, historically the numbers five months away, I think we are from the election, even longer, they will change dramatically. Reagan was way behind Carter in 1980 because these things can change. The problem is that these candidates are very well known. Certainly Trump. Certainly Clinton. Cruz a bit less so. So that it isn't as if people haven't heard of them, having formed an opinion. The opinion is formed. So, I think these perceptions are going to be much harder to change than in the regular normal cycle.

KELLY: Even with Trump coming out with a series of policy speeches and, you know, we're hearing maybe sort of walking on a little bit more of a straight and narrow path.

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, no. I think that would definitely help him. But I do think it would require -- it's got to be sort of a character change, a persona change. Look, what got him here is his style. When you look at the exit polls from the Republicans who support him, tell it like it is, leadership, strength, all this stuff. But it's part of his whole shtick. Now, if he's going to change, I can be presidential overnight, that would make a difference. But you wonder whether that's going to be seen as authentic.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

KRAUTHAMMER: The speeches will help. He needs to put flesh on the bone. But people are going to ask themselves, is this really what he thinks or is he reading a speech that somebody else read? Because when you get him unawares, like in the question about abortion, he demonstrated as of now, at age 69, he apparently had never thought through the question of what do you do if it's illegal.

KELLY: To your point about, you know, he has to sort of change character. Rudy Giuliani came out today and said, he's going to vote for Trump and he supports him but he says it's not an endorsement but I'm going to vote for him. So, the man I know is not the man you see on television. He's a gentleman. He's a good father. Charles, good to see you.

KRAUTHAMMER: My pleasure.

KELLY: Up next, the college student being asked to give up an important campus gig all because she dared to support Donald Trump with chalk.

Plus, new fallout after Hillary Clinton is caught in a subway snafu with a ticket, well, metrocard at least that would not work. And then President Obama trying to convince the U.S. Supreme Court to give government benefits to the illegal immigrants in the country known as Dreamers. We'll going to take a look at whether this is going to work, just ahead.


ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of FOX News, it's THE KELLY FILE with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: From our cupcake nation file tonight, a classic. A group of students at the University of Tennessee now demanding the resignation of a student leader. What did she do? She expressed support for Donald Trump. Haley Puckett was popular enough to be elected to the student Senate. But that was before she sent out the offending tweet about the pro-Trump chalk drawings she actually helped create at her school, saying she was actually proud of the work being done be by her fellow Trump supporters. And now her fellow student leaders are letting her have it, calling for her to step down because she does not agree with them and their politics! Pro-Trump chalkings, similarly offended some of the cupcakes over at Emory University.

Chalk drawings, folks, and cupcakes with no understanding of the free speech principles on which this country was founded. Welcome to 2016. So the man credited for helping President George W. Bush win the White House today penned a new column for the Wall Street Journal on the road ahead in this Republican race.

And joining me now with his magic white board, FOX News contributor and former deputy-chief-of-staff to President George W. Bush, Karl Rove. Karl, good to see you.

So, you're sort of outlining what you gleaned from Wisconsin. And can you tell us that in light of what we're also seeing now is likely to happen in New York?

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, look, after Wisconsin, Donald Trump has 743 delegates, and the not Trump, that's Kasich and Rubio and Cruz and un-committeds, and the miscellaneous delegates left in the hands of others, they total 897. So there's 154 gap, delegate gap between where Trump is and where not Trump is. And I think Charles Krauthammer hit it right. Trump needs to win on the first ballot. Otherwise he's going to start losing delegates. So far he's done -- his operation has not done an ineffectual job of making sure at the second half of the process, first half of the process is a portion of the delegates through primaries and caucuses.

Second half of it is, actually getting the delegates elected at state conventions and district conventions. He done good on the first, 37 percent of the vote, 743 delegates, he's not done good on the second one.
As a result, there are people who are today bound to Trump on the first or second ballot who are not going to be supporters of his after they're unbound.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

ROVE: So, he has to go in with -- he has a 154 delegate deficit right now. He's going to close up a bunch of that in New York. Some estimates are, that he will get 90 or 95, 90 out of 95, I'm not sure that it's going to be that big given where the Congressional districts are apportioned. In each district, if somebody gets 50 percent, they get all three, if they get less than 50 percent and somebody else gets more than 20, and it goes two to one. And I think we're going to see some districts where Cruz and Kasich primarily Kasich are going to do better. But even if he gets all 95, that still means that he's about 60 delegates behind the not Trump forces. And he's got a lot of rough territory ahead.

KELLY: But this guy, Paul Manafort that he just hired who seems to be very well respected, he knows what he's doing. Isn't his job now to shore up those delegates to say, you vote Trump, you stick with Trump, even if he get freed up and you become unbound, you need to stick with him.

ROVE: Yeah. Well, look, we have elected -- call it 2,400-somewhat delegates to the national convention, we have 832 left to select, to apportion out through primaries and caucuses. We've got probably about
1,200 yet to vote on and just select in state party conventions and district conventions. And it's awfully late. Paul Manafort is excellent. He did this in 1976 for Gerald Ford against Ronald Reagan under the direction of a young Houston lawyer named James A. Baker III. You may have heard of him later in life. But it's awful late, and you need to have in place the infrastructure to actually make this happen. And all along, Donald Trump has not built the infrastructure inside.

KELLY:  I want to ask you about something else in your piece, where you talked about look, you said he -- his temperament, Trump's temperament has something to do why he lost Wisconsin and could cost him the nomination. And the question is if that's true, if Wisconsin was some harbinger of things to come, why is he killing it in New York? Why does he still have solid poll numbers in virtually all the states that are coming up between now and June 7th?

ROVE: Well, look, it's his home state. He better do well there. But look, he goes into Wisconsin and takes on the very popular Republican governor, and says things that people in Wisconsin absolutely know are not true about him.

KELLY:  My question is, that's an aberration. Unless he does that in every other state.


ROVE: Well, maybe. But remember, the real clear politics average going into Wisconsin was 39-35, Cruz in front. But a close race. It ended up being 48-35, a 13-point blowout. I think it was because as we grounded in, people sort of said, wait a minute, you're saying and doing things we don't think demonstrate what we want to see in the presidential. Then he compounds it on election night with a concession statement that is jaw- droppingly dumb. He basically accuses his opponent explicitly of violating federal law, and makes a series of outrageous statements that -- I think Newt Gingrich had it right. That was the moment to be gracious. That was the moment to look like a president, not the moment to look like an angry, bitter, and resentful loser. And that's what he came off as.

KELLY:  Karl Rove, thank you.

ROVE: You bet. Thank you.

KELLY: Joining us now with a reaction, former Republican presidential candidate and Donald Trump supporter, endorser, Dr. Ben Carson. Good to see you, Dr. Carson. What do you make of that? Do you think Trump's detractors are making too much out of the snarky statement he put out on the night of the Wisconsin loss?

BEN CARSON, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, obviously they're going to make a lot of it, you know, people are going to be defending on who they're supporting, they're going see everything in either a negative or positive light. That's really the problem. Because the Republicans, the conservatives, the people who think logically, have to recognize that the stakes here are extraordinarily high. And they have to stop creating this tension between them, so that people are going to say, I'm not voting for that person no matter what.

KELLY:  But it's the nature of the primary process. I mean, you know how -- it's just so ugly between the candidates right now. You know, you were once opposed to Donald Trump and he came after you and that -- isn't that just the nature of the process? You can't stop that.

CARSON: It would be nice if we stop it and if we could be mature.

KELLY: Well, we can't.

CARSON: It seems like we can't. I know that we can, though. I know we have the intellectual ability to do it and to focus on the things that are important. And I think we have to keep trying to do that.

KELLY: What do you think -- when you were still in this race, one of the things you always did very well on was likability, and honestly and trustworthiness. Is it possible to advise somebody on how to raise their likability, their favorables? How would you suggest that be done?

CARSON: Well, first of all, it is interesting, I did have high favorables. People liked me, but they didn't vote for me. And Trump has horrible numbers, but they vote for him.


CARSON: I don't know that there's a great correlation there.


KELLY: Maybe he shouldn't listen to you. That's one of the things -- one of the core things. Because Corey Lewandowski, his campaign manager, has said to have put on the board, Let Trump Be Trump, that is the way forward for him. Don't have outside people who think they know better coming in to massage this candidate who doesn't look anything like any other candidate. And because he's so unlike anything we've ever seen, he's gotten to this place in the race.

CARSON: Well, I think you need the outside people though. There's no question that he has to up the ground game. He's got to cultivate the delegates. If you don't play that part of the game, you're going to lose100 percent of the time. So that was the right move to make.

KELLY: Do you think that's stealing -- some people say that's stealing the vote, but the other argument is well, those delegates are unbound, when they switch, if they switch, it's only at a point at which by the rules, they become unbound.

CARSON: Yes. The rules are the rules. But, you know, again, I can't emphasize strongly enough, we're about to go over the cliff. We may not be able to get back. If we get a progressive in there and they get two to four Supreme Court picks, America as we know it is gone. That's what people have to think about. So the Cruz supporters need to say I'm going to support Trump if he wins. Trump supporters need to say I will support Cruz if he wins. Whoever the person is, they have to support them. You have got to put aside your own little petty things and recognize we're talking about the future of this country. We're talking about our children and grandchildren. We somehow have got to get that through people's heads.

KELLY:  Great to see you, Dr. Carson. Thanks for being here.

CARSON: You, too. Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY:  Some dramatic moments on the campaign trail today when Bill Clinton runs into a buzzsaw of protesters from the Black Lives Matter movement, and wow! He was not happy. Is this going to be a problem for the Clinton campaign? Surrogates from both the Sanders and the Clinton camp, they're getting along now fine but we'll see in five minutes. Stay tuned.


BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter. Tell the truth!



KELLY: Hillary Clinton traveled like a true New Yorker today, sort of, when the Democratic presidential candidate was caught on camera making several failed attempts to properly swipe her MetroCard. In her defense, she may have swiped it just right, and it just didn't go through. This has happened to all of us. It eventually went through and she managed to take the train for one full stop, with a full security details and a bunch of cameras, all through her campaign. That's just how we all do it. Trace Gallagher is live in our West Coast Newsroom with one of those moments.
Hey, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Just so you know, Megyn, a few years ago, the New York Daily News reported that 80 percent of all MetroCard swipes at New York City subways are successful. And the primary reason the other 20 percent fail is because the ticket is damaged or defective. Hillary Clinton's Metro Card was neither. Yet, it took her about five swipes to make it, which took some credibility away from her statement claiming she loves the subway and that it's the best way to get around. Her lack of knowledge on the proper swipe technique also took a bit of the sting away from her slam at Bernie Sanders, when he proved he, too, does not hang with the strap hangers. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you ride the subway today?

SANDERS: You get a token and you get in.



GALLAGHER: Wrong. The token was were replaced by the Metro Card some 13 years ago or as Hillary Clinton pointed out during her time, as a New York senator. And while the media is covering the subway snafus, it's doing so in a lighthearted way. But think back 24 years when George H.W. Bush seemed surprised by the technology of grocery store scanners. And the New York Times portrayed him as being out of touch with average citizens, saying quote, ‘some grocery stores began using electronic scanners as early as 1976. And the devices have been in general use in American supermarkets for a decade.’ The Times was later criticized for exaggerating Bush's lack of scanner knowledge, but at the time he, was battling Bill Clinton and the recession, and the criticism had a lasting impact on the campaign. Megyn.

KELLY: I'm glad we've gotten to the bottom of that. Trace, thank you. Five swipes he tells us, five. Hillary was not the only one facing critics today. Earlier this evening, her husband, the former president, had a furious exchange -- furiously anger with a couple of Black Lives Matter protesters. Watch this.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. Now, you're screaming. So let's do another one. Whoa, whoa, whoa!


CLINTON: Come on. Wait, wait, wait. See these other signs? This is what's the matter. I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and send them out on the street to murder other African-American children. Maybe you thought they were good citizens. She didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.


KELLY: Joining me now is a Bernie Sanders supporter Nomiki Konst, and Hillary Clinton supporter, Melissa Mark-Viverito. She is also the New York City council speaker. Thank you both so much for being here.


KELLY: Oh, my goodness. In Hillary's defense, how many times have you swiped it properly and nothing?

KONST: It happens.

KELLY: I don't think we can indict the swiping.

KONST: It's the angle.

KELLY: And sometimes if you don't use it for a couple of weeks, then it doesn't work at all. You got to go back, you got to reactivate. She just doesn't live here. Well, she's campaigning. In any event, now that we put swipe-gate to the side.


KELLY: I will ask you about the Bill Clinton exchange there. That is a real issue that's going to come back to haunt Hillary. And tell us what it is, Nomiki.

KONST: Well, the issue is that Bill Clinton senses the presidency might be slipping away from Hillary Clinton, and it also wreaks of desperation for him to hold on to his legacy.

KELLY: But explain the fight that they were having. It was over something Hillary Clinton said that black youth -- that they're super predators back in 1996, he had a speech 20 years ago about violent crime.

MELISSA MARK-VIVERITO, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: This is about the Crime Bill, which Hillary Clinton acknowledges at this point was a mistake. She has a very comprehensive platform to talk about criminal justice reform comprehensively in this country. She's the only candidate that has vocally and consistently talks about systemic racism.


KONST: That's not true.

KELLY: The Black Lives Matter, they are holding that speech against her, and the Crime Bill.

MARK-VIVERITO: And it's a Crime Bill Bernie Sanders voted for.


MARK-VIVERITO: So the issue here is, which candidate has the most comprehensive approach to really dealing with the systemic issues that are disproportionally affecting communities of color.


KELLY: They were saying to her that she basically put a bunch of African- Americans in jail.


MARK-VIVERITO: One in four African-Americans.

KELLY: But they believe the Crime Bill did.


MARK-VIVERITO: Bernie Sanders voted for it.

KONST: He voted for that. Let's be clear about that.


KONST: You understand legislation. You understand it. You understand you have to attach two bills. Other things, the Violence Against Woman Act was attached to that Crime Bill. Every Democrat voted for that Crime Bill, because the Clintons were triangulating. That's how legislation works.


MARK-VIVERITO: What we need to look at is what is the platform? Where is the plan of action that these candidates are presenting?

KELLY:  I agree, but I'm focused on why they are holding this against her and whether this is going to be an issue.


MARK-VIVERITO: I think this is an issue that's been approached with all candidates, not just Hillary Clinton. And so, again, the way that you come and confront that is by what is your plan of action?


KONST: That's not true. When your rhetoric.


KELLY: Bill Clinton, you know, he was irritated there, that was obvious. And he feels that his Crime Bill is being misrepresented and he went on to say, look, there are gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out in the streets to murder other African-Americans. Maybe you thought they were good citizens, but I did not. And that's where super predator came from.


KONST: He's generalizing an entire African-American community where one in four African-Americans is in prison. Let me make this very clear. They were in prison because this Crime Bill was lobbied by the private prison industry, which he accepted money from and Hillary Clinton continues to. So what Bernie Sanders is doing right now, and what Black Lives Matter is doing right now is they're connecting the dots.


KELLY: Let her finish.

KONST: Voters are smart. They understand that there's $5.5 billion in private prison stock rising because people are making money off of putting people in jail. Unfortunately, it's been targeting the African-American community, and it was the result of '90s legislation.

MARK-VIVERITO: So I am a speaker at the New York City council, I am a Latina who has been living in New York City since 1987. And Hillary Clinton has a relationship not only with the Latina community, with the African-American community that goes back 20 years. This is not a new relationship. She's not learning these issues. She's not just talking.


MARK-VIVERITO: If I may, having been our senator in the state of New York, I understand firsthand what her platform is. We understand. The district I represent here in New York City is a community that has been disproportionally impacted by criminal justice systems which she will look to address at a systemic level and nationwide.

KELLY: The polls in New York on the Democratic side have tightened a bit. It's not the landslide or the lopsided thing that we're seeing for Trump and Cruz for Hillary and Bernie. Do you think there is any chance she loses New York to Bernie?

MARK-VIVERITO: Not at all. I know that the relationship she's had with the state runs deep.


KONST: It's called patronage.


KONST: She's a U.S. Senator. She walked into New York, she cut deals the way Bill Clinton did. Everybody knows what New York is about. There's machine politics at the local level and she's been able to oil that machine. Bernie Sanders is funding his campaign on $27 donations. What his movement is about not about patronage. He's bringing in independents, he's bringing in first-time voters.



KELLY: Got to leave it at that. I've got to run. Also tonight, what's going to happen with illegal immigrants and benefits? That's next.


KELLY: A developing controversy over an argument the Obama White House plans on presenting to the U.S. Supreme Court. As the administration prepares to make the case, that some folks in this country illegally are entitled to benefits like Medicare and Social Security, thanks to President Obama's executive order on immigration. Chief Washington Correspondent James Rosen has more. James.

JAMES ROSEN, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, good evening. The momentous issues in the case of U.S. v. Texas set for Supreme Court oral arguments about 10 days from now involve the limits of presidential power,26 states are challenging the executive orders President Obama signed in late 2014 unilaterally expanding the number of illegal aliens and their family members up to 4 million of them in all, who can be shielded from deportation under a policy called Deferred Action. Receiving little attention until now, however, is a startling assertion tucked away in the Obama administration's court filings namely that these protected foreigners known as nonqualified aliens can receive some of the same federal benefits U.S. citizens enjoy.

In a Supreme Court brief filed last month, Mr. Obama's solicitor general, Donald Verrilli argued, a nonqualified alien is not categorically barred from participating in certain federal earned benefit programs associated with lawfully working in the United States, the Social Security retirement and disability, Medicare, Railroad Worker programs, so long as the alien is lawfully present in the United States as determined by the Homeland Security Secretary.


JOHN MALCOLM, Edwin Meese III Center for Legal and Judicial Studies: All of a sudden, the people who are here illegally, they wake up every day continuing to violate our nation's immigration laws are being afforded in many cases, more benefits than lawful citizens get.


ROSEN: At the time, the president promised his orders will not confer federal benefits on these undocumented workers.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive, only Congress can do that.


ROSEN: If supporters of the president's immigration policy say that benefits do not mark new legal ground.


ELIZABETH WYDRA, CONSTITUTIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY CENTER: It's the president's decision to defer removal. And then after that, it's really what Congress has passed that kicks in to determine whether people here with that deferred action then get certain benefits or work authorization.


ROSEN: The vacancy created by the death of Justice Antonin Scalia complicates the process of how the how the high court will rule. A decision is expected by late June or early July. Megyn.

KELLY: James, thank you.

An important thought after the break.


KELLY: April is National Child Abuse Prevention month. Nearly five children die every single day in this country due to abuse and neglect. Every 10 seconds, a report is made that a hide is being abused. Millions of children are at risk and it's too easy to look away. If you know someone in need, please call the National Child Abuse hotline at 1-800- 4achild. If you are a child in need of help, 1-800-4achild, also Thanks for watching.

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