Can Trump, Cruz supporters unite to stop the establishment?
Pat Buchanan weighs in on prospect of contested GOP convention on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," April 6, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." And tonight, 2016 Republican presidential candidate Senator Ted Cruz is riding high after his victory in Wisconsin last night. Now, Cruz called it a turning point in the race, and now candidates are shifting their focus to New York state. Now, voters in the state now head to the polls in just 13 days, 95 GOP delegates are up for grabs.
And earlier this evening, Donald Trump held a big rally out on Long Island in Bethpage. Here are some of the highlights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First of all, it's great to be home. This is home. It's great to be home.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: We love New York. We love New York, and we are all together going to make America great again, folks.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: We are going to build the wall! It will be a real wall, a real wall! Are you ready? Are you ready? Who is going to pay for the wall?
AUDIENCE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Who?
AUDIENCE: Mexico!
TRUMP: By the way, 100 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And after last night's defeat, how can Trump turn things around? Joining us now, editor-in-chief, Lifezette.com, Fox News contributor, the one and only Laura Ingraham.
All right, let's analyze where we are. Trump still has a significant delegate lead. He's heading into friendly territory. I would assume he certainly has an advantage in New York. The polls show -- and if you look at the polls, he's got 52, Kasich, 25, Cruz 17. Assuming he does well in New York, assuming -- now we saw how well that Cruz did in Wisconsin. Where does it go from there?
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: I think, Sean, one thing that we really have to start looking at, beyond just how many delegates Trump has, how many delegates Cruz has, is who are the delegates? As important as the number that you have is, who are the delegates? In a lot of states, the delegates tend to be people who are closer and closely affiliated with party leaders in the state.
So the delegate elections in some states haven't happened yet, so we don't know who the delegates are. But I think journalists need to start really looking into who these delegates are. In New York, it does seem like Trump has a pretty significant lead, but with some of these already -- states that have already voted, we could have very interesting dynamics play out at the convention, Sean, with delegates who are close, or let's say, in Kentucky, to someone like a Mitch McConnell, whereas maybe a delegate who's closer to, I don't know, Rand Paul, might be more amenable to going with a Trump or Cruz.
So I think that's something that we really need to start talking about and looking into as analysts on this election cycle. But Trump's obviously well put to be in New York and do well. But he has to do well. I mean, he can't just go in there and kind of, you know -- you know, hope that his brand and his name takes him across the finish line. He has to perform and continue to outperform in state after state until he gets to that final delegate-rich state of California.
HANNITY: All right, so I don't think we get a winner. The earliest we possibly can get a winner after California, the final day. That's June 7th. That includes New Jersey, a winner-take-all state.
All right, so from New York, you go to Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland and Pennsylvania. And Pennsylvania has these wacky rules, as well.
INGRAHAM: Right.
HANNITY: They have delegate names on the ballot, but they don't say the delegate represents that candidate or this candidate, for example.
INGRAHAM: Right. When you...
HANNITY: Nuts.
INGRAHAM: When you go into -- Sean, I started reading the state rules and the federal rules that -- national rules for the GOP last night. This is why all the campaigns are lawyered up now because it's not as simple as the delegates. And remember, they can change the rules right up until the convention begins.
And if past conventions are any indicator, Paul Ryan is going to chair the convention, right? I mean, he should be the chair of the convention. So they were having meetings yesterday at the RNC. Folks at the RNC have assured me -- and I know Reince Priebus came on the show last night and he said -- although it took you while to get him say that it's going to Trump, Cruz or Kasich.
But it seems like there's a lot of room for maneuvering after that first vote, which is why Trump really wanted to do better in Wisconsin. And I think he really wanted to have maybe a better strategy in some of the states where he already supposedly won these delegates so he could get to the 1,237 number.
It's still possible, but I think it's very -- I think it's unlikely that he's going to get to the 1,237 number, frankly, before the convention, which is going to be a very difficult scenario for him.
HANNITY: There's an AP story out, and it was held by ABC News, that Cruz outmaneuvering Trump in hand-to-hand GOP delegate fight.
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: And specifically, they're talking about Colorado. Specifically they're talking about North Dakota, 28 delegates, North Dakota. And we now have -- even though they're selecting these delegates, for example, 10 of them have now already committed to Cruz.
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: I don't see any committed to Donald Trump yet. Two congressional districts in Colorado, six delegates. They've gone to Ted Cruz. Nobody's paying attention to that, but...
INGRAHAM: No.
HANNITY: ... when you have a fight to get to 1,237, it might make a difference. Now, if, in fact, neither Trump or Cruz gets to 1,237, now we're going to a contested convention. Why is John Boehner, John Kasich, Karl Rove, Mitt Romney and even state GOP representatives all suggesting, in spite of rule 40 and -- a rule that states you have to have eight state majorities to even be considered -- I have it right here in front of me. It seems pretty clear.
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: Why are they suggesting that Paul Ryan could be named on the convention floor and be brought into this?
INGRAHAM: Well, remember -- yes. I agree with you. Look, when people -- people are supposed to have a belief that when they spent all this time voting and waiting in line and caucusing and putting up posters, that ultimately, it mattered. You know, so with all the minutiae in these mules and the notwithstanding such and such clause that's also in that rule that you referred to, there is just a general sense that the party has to proceed fairly and -- not that rules don't matter. They do matter. But also, the brand and the integrity of the GOP is on the line here.
So remember in '64 -- back in '64, the party did not want Goldwater to be the nominee, but they took their medicine and they allowed him to be the nominee. He went forward as the nominee. They lost the election, but then they came back in 1968 and won with Nixon.
I think it's a much better course for the Republicans not to even entertain this idea of a third party, Sean, and take their medicine. They made a lot of bad decisions in the establishment over the last, you know, really 15 years, made a lot of bad decisions, globalization, immigration, even foreign policy. Take that medicine, Cruz or Trump...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: But you and I both know -- you know, this is an amazing thing. And I've read articles -- your name has been mentioned in some of these articles. My name has been mentioned -- that somehow, the insurgency that was created this year is our fault, as if we have all the power.
INGRAHAM: Oh, yes, I love that. Right.
HANNITY: If we had all that power, Obama wouldn't be president.
INGRAHAM: Right.
HANNITY: But the interesting thing to me is the very people that created the insurgency -- and I argue that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz -- the rise in their popularity is directly related to the failure of Republicans in Washington. Now they want to come in, maybe circumvent what the rules are because, remember, 2012 rules will not apply in 2016.
INGRAHAM: Yes (INAUDIBLE) rewrite the rules.
HANNITY: They're going to rewrite the rules before the convention.
INGRAHAM: Yes. But Sean, again, the lessons that they're learning aren't the lessons that they should be learning in this election. The lessons that they should be learning are listen to the people -- you don't -- it's not direct democracy. That's -- Jonah Goldberg wrote about that today. Sure, it's to a direct democracy. They're right. But compromise a little bit on these issues, immigration, trade, globalization. Compromise. Show some good will on these issues, actually fight for the issues that you said you were going to fight for when you were elected.
And if they did that on even a couple of these issues, Sean, Trump probably wouldn't even have run. But Trump ran because of this vacuum that was left out there in the political landscape. And if it weren't for Trump -- and I don't care what anyone says. If it weren't for Trump, this issue of trade, which is now at the fore, given where our GDP is...
HANNITY: And immigration.
INGRAHAM: ... at .4 percent -- and immigration -- those issues would not be at the forefront today. No way!
HANNITY: Do you think he still gets it? He still has a pretty significant lead. Do you think he gets the nomination? Do you think he gets the most delegates going into the convention?
INGRAHAM: I think it's in -- I think largely, a lot of this is in his power. I think he had it in his hands, but I think he took it too personal. And you know, Trump people will be sending me nasty tweets. I don't think keeping this thing so personal was a good idea.
I think you go straight to the substance, straight to the failure of the establishment. He had some good anchoring issues, but now it's time to, as I like to say, decorate the Christmas tree. The Christmas tree is pretty, but when you decorate it, it's really cool. Put some lights on, add some ornaments. And that can be -- that could be a real wonderful, shining symbol for people.
You've got to pull some establishment people over, Sean -- it's not impossible -- and pull some Cruz people over.
HANNITY: So you're saying he needs a course correction. He needs...
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: ... to get away from tweeting. He needs to get away -- and stay on substance.
INGRAHAM: I'd take away his Twitter account.
(LAUGHTER)
INGRAHAM: I've said that before.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... blow it up?
INGRAHAM: ... take it away. I mean, I'd take it away. I'd throw the phone away. I wouldn't even allow him -- I mean, I think Melania basically said that the other night.
HANNITY: She said it to me, pretty much.
INGRAHAM: And when she was on with you -- that was a great interview, by the way. They -- her input I think is really needed. I think Ivanka also. I mean, I think the women who are in that campaign are doing a really good job, and they offer a different perspective, I think, on all of this.
HANNITY: You certainly have to look at the demographics. I agree with you. And you know, it's up to them. I agree, a lot of it is in both their hands, both in Cruz and Trump's hands for sure.
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: And making course corrections is just part of the game and how you play the art of politics.
INGRAHAM: You got to evolve! You have to evolve as the circumstances change. Cruz has -- Cruz has done a good job on the ground in these states, and no one can take that away from him, or (ph) they should.
HANNITY: Agreed. All right, Laura, great to see you, as always. Thank you.
INGRAHAM: Good to see you. Take care.
HANNITY: And coming up, Patrick J. Buchanan -- he's here to weigh in on last night's Wisconsin results. Plus, find out what he says Cruz and Trump need to do if it comes down to a contested convention.
Then later, "Fox & Friends'" Heather Nauert -- she's here to break down the GOP delegate count.
And is Hillary Clinton -- is she trying to steal the Democratic nomination from Bernie Sanders? Bernie, you ought to be watching. I will help you out tonight straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So last night, Senator Ted Cruz had a victory in Wisconsin in that primary, leading some analysts to predict that the odds now of a contested convention are higher than ever. And if this happens come July, my next guest believes that Republican delegates should unite around Senator Ted Cruz and Donald Trump in order to lock out the establishment.
Here now to explain, author of "The Greatest Comeback," Patrick J. Buchanan. Sir, I totally and completely agree with you. The only problem I see at this moment in time, Cruz supporters hate Trump supporters. Trump supporters hate Cruz supporters. And what you're asking is that they do the right thing, and they will have the power to do that, won't they.
PAT BUCHANAN, R-FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They will, but you're exactly right in the point you just made. Both of them have what they perceive as vital interests. They're not fond of each other. And each of them wants to be the nominee. So that might militate against their getting together.
For example, Trump might say, Look, I want to put something together that enables me to get the nomination on the first ballot, but if I don't get it there, I'm not going to get it, and I don't really care about Ted Cruz getting it, if I don't. So you've got a -- you don't have a -- you have a partial commonality of interests between the two of them.
HANNITY: And what about Marco Rubio? Marco Rubio still has more delegates than John Kasich, who's still in the race!
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: I think -- I don't know how well -- whether he can trade, but I'll tell you, here's what -- here's what I think's going to happen and I think should happen. I think Trump should really focus -- I agree with you, you know, give up the Twitter account, focus in on New York, try to get as many of those 95 delegates, keep winning right on up to that convention, go out there, go after the unbound delegates and then go after the delegates that might be bound to other candidates or who can trade them.
And Rubio might be in that particular game, and try to win this on the first ballot because I can tell you, Sean, I think if Trump doesn't win it on the first ballot, Trump doesn't win it because I think it breaks apart. An awful lot of folks that are in the Trump camp now are there because they're pledged for one ballot or something like that. And once they're no longer pledged, they're gone.
HANNITY: All right, what about all of a sudden the new-found establishment love for Ted Cruz? Because we both know...
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Let's be real here. The establishment doesn't like Ted Cruz.
BUCHANAN: They're telling...
HANNITY: They might have helped him in Wisconsin. Wasn't that more of an effort to just stop Trump?
BUCHANAN: Sure.
HANNITY: And wouldn't the establishment be just as happy to deny Trump and Cruz the nomination?
BUCHANAN: Sure. They're telling Cruz, Why don't you go up there? You're going to get a big medal if you can go up there and take that hill, Ted.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Yes! Exactly. So are you -- no, seriously, are they using...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: They will be...
HANNITY: ... are they basically -- yes.
BUCHANAN: They will be at the burial of Ted Cruz after he takes down Trump, if he takes down Trump. But Cruz is a smart guy. He has to know this. But I think I see signs that he clearly is moving toward the establishment now because I think he figures, Look, they can't take Trump and they may have to take me, so why don't they get together with me now, and if we can stop Trump on the first ballot, I get it on the second ballot.
And you watch. And then I will do a deal with those folks, you know, to improve our conduct, et cetera, take certain things they want, certain things we want. I think that's the coalition...
HANNITY: So the guy -- assuming the votes keep going pretty much proportionally the same way they're going, that would mean the guy that had the most states won, the most votes, the most delegates -- they disenfranchise those voters. What happens to Trump voters? Are they going to just sit back and say, Oh, OK, we'll support Ted, or are they going to get angry? I would vote they get angry.
BUCHANAN: Well, here's -- here's what I think, Sean. I think there is a really battle between Cruz and Trump. And everybody knows Cruz has run second. He's run a terrific race. He's won a lot of primaries and delegates, and Trump is ahead of him.
I don't think there's a great walk-out, a reason for it, if they come down to it, and neither of them's got a majority, and eventually on the second ballot, Cruz emerges.
If, however, they come walking in, the establishment does, and tries to take down Cruz and Trump and plant somebody from the establishment...
HANNITY: OK...
BUCHANAN: ... after the rejection of the establishment is what this election's been all about...
HANNITY: What if one of the candidates has a 300 or 400 delegate lead and then is denied the nomination?
BUCHANAN: Well, if he's got 300 or 400 lead...
HANNITY: But shy of 1,237...
BUCHANAN: ... going in, I think -- well, I think then Trump -- it's up to Trump, the deal maker, to make the deal and go over the top. But I do -- if you're 400 behind -- there's no doubt about it, there's going to be real anger, alienation and people walking out of the party if the guy they went in there for came in that far ahead in votes, states, you know, crowds, everything, and a plurality want him...
HANNITY: Who do you think -- look, I don't think polls that are accurate, you know, these hypothetical matchups. If you go by them, Kasich does the best right now. Who do you think, when push comes to shove, has the best chance of beating Hillary?
BUCHANAN: I thought it was -- I would have said three weeks ago, four weeks ago Trump. For the reason I felt Trump can win states like Michigan and he can do well in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, New York, on his economic nationalism issue, on the jobs going abroad, on Hillary and NAFTA and all that.
But there's been an awful lot happen in three weeks which have driven his negatives up pretty high. So if you ask...
HANNITY: Can he fix that?
BUCHANAN: Well, that's the key question. Can he fix that? We saw when he took off initially, he was -- nobody sort of wanted him, and all of a sudden, he did tremendously in raising himself up and reducing his negatives. But when they go up a second time, can you take him down a second time? That's really the -- you know, the $64,000 question here.
HANNITY: Well, you've been around this game a year or two. I mean, I would assume you have some knowledge about whether that can happen.
BUCHANAN: It can happen. I've seen -- Ronald Reagan was down 30 points, or something like that, during that year when he won that election with carter. However, I remember Barry Goldwater was down 59 points. We did reduce it, Sean, to about 25!
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Didn't actually work out the way you wanted. I know.
BUCHANAN: He was great American, though.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Yes. Listen, I hear what you're saying. All right, Pat Buchanan, I will say this. If they don't unite against the establishment and the establishment is able to pull off some shenanigans, I would argue that you're going to see a lot of people pack up and walk for good. They're not coming back.
BUCHANAN: Let me suggest something, Sean. Go with Trump and Cruz as a ticket. As they said of the Boston Braves, spawn (ph) and sane (ph) and pray for rain.
HANNITY: All right, do you think that ticket would win?
BUCHANAN: I think that ticket would set the country on fire.
HANNITY: Wow.
BUCHANAN: I really do.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... voodoo economics. They put that aside, but can they put aside what's going on here?
BUCHANAN: Well, look, I -- look, if you -- well, the attacks on the -- they've been savage and it seems very personal with them, also.
HANNITY: Yes.
BUCHANAN: And it's gratuitous and all -- and it's very hurtful, you know? And...
HANNITY: All right, so who's going to be the VP? Would Cruz accept VP if he has less delegates?
BUCHANAN: Fewer delegates? But the thing is, the only way for Cruz to find out if he's got fewer delegates is if he can stop Trump from winning the nomination...
HANNITY: Yes.
BUCHANAN: ... you know, on the first ballot, in which case things break apart.
HANNITY: Yes.
BUCHANAN: And I don't see how Trump comes back if he loses the first ballot and people start moving toward him.
HANNITY: So who are they going to move towards?
BUCHANAN: The establishment will be in there. Everybody will be in there.
HANNITY: ... then they'll move towards -- you predict they'd move towards Cruz?
BUCHANAN: I -- well, here's the thing. My prediction would be that Trump will move toward a Rubio or a Kasich if he's short on the first ballot.
HANNITY: He'll make a deal, or do you think they would say yes?
BUCHANAN: Oh, yes. I think he's -- I think Trump will have to make a deal on the first...
HANNITY: Do you think Marco Rubio, who was called "little Marco," is going to go along with Mr. Trump?
BUCHANAN: Well, if he called me "Little Pat" and he gave me the vice presidency?
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Maybe!
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: All right. We got to go, Mr. -- you know, you cracked me up in the "Crossfire" days. You're still cracking me up.
All right, Pat Buchanan.
Coming up, so how can a GOP candidate clinch the nomination before the convention in July? Heather Nauert of "Fox & Friends" -- she's here to break down the delegate count on the Republican side on the "Hannity" big board.
Then later, is Hillary -- now, pay attention, Bernie Sanders! -- is Hillary trying to steal the nomination from you? We'll investigate tonight.
Plus, remember the activist who exposed what was happening behind closed doors at Planned Parenthood? Remember, they were selling baby body parts for Lamborghinis? Well, his (ph) claimed (ph), by the way, his home raided by authorities -- his claim. So was that politically motivated? And meanwhile, Planned Parenthood's off the hook. We have an exclusive investigation tonight straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." So Senator Cruz had a big victory last night in Wisconsin. Tonight, at the "Hannity" big board with the breakdown of what it means for the Republican delegate count is "Fox & Friends" own Heather Nauert. What do we got, Heather?
HEATHER NAUERT, "FOX & FRIENDS": Hi, there, Sean. Well, Senator Ted Cruz's victory in the Badger State increasing the possibility of a contested convention this July if a candidate fails to reach 1,237 delegates needed to secure the nomination.
Here's where the current delegate count stands after last night's contest. Donald Trump is out in front with 743 delegates. But Senator Ted Cruz has been gaining. He now has 517, while Governor John Kasich is sitting on 143 delegates.
In order to avoid a contested convention, Trump needs to win 56 percent of all the remaining delegates. Senator Cruz has to come away with 82 percent. And Governor Kasich -- well, he is statistically eliminated from winning the nomination before the convention. He would need 124 percent of all those remaining delegates.
Sean, the other big storyline that we are following is this. If there's a contested convention, will someone who's currently not running, like Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, be put forward as a potential party nominee? Well, the RNC chairman, Reince Priebus -- he was on your show last night and here's what he said. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: Clearly, there's a rule in place now that candidates need a majority of eight states' delegates...
HANNITY: That's rule 40.
PRIEBUS: ... eight different states, a majority, to be even nominated. So I mean, this -- and I've said it before. So it's not like I'm making news. I believe the candidate -- our nominee's going to be someone running.
And as far as the Paul Ryan talk, let me just say it again for the 10th time. Number one, he's not running. Number two, he doesn't want to. Number three, he doesn't like...
HANNITY: All right, let me ask the question this way...
PRIEBUS: ... this talk and wants it to end. But number four, he's not going to have a floor operation to do any of these things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NAUERT: Well, there you go. Sean, the next big contest for Republicans is less than two weeks away, New York state. 95 delegates will be at stake. We'll be keeping a close eye on that one for you. Back over to you.
HANNITY: All right, Heather's going to be back with the Democratic delegate count, and of course, with the superdelegates, a big deal there. Are they stealing the nomination from Bernie? We'll talk about that.
Here with reaction first, though, Fox News contributor Mercedes Schlapp, and conservative columnist A.J. Delgado is with us. All right, A.J., let me ask you to put on your lawyer hat for just a minute. I have rule 40 right here in front of me, even though the rule will change, that was 2012. Why they change these rules leading into this convention before the convention starts raises a lot of questions.
But your interpretation. Do you need a majority victory in eight states to even be considered? What is your interpretation?
A.J. DELGADO, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: Yes, you do. But as you said, Sean, these rules are not set in stone. I mean, to hear some of the folks speak as though, you know, Moses brought these down from Mount Sinai -- they can be changed at any minute. So really, the establishment could change this on us even a few days before. That rule 40, like everything else, can be switched.
HANNITY: But when we talk about the establishment, won't the Rules Committee, at least Reince Priebus is claiming, will be made up mostly of Trump and Cruz supporters, considering they'll have somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the delegates, right? So I would think that they would prevent any other candidate from coming in.
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: That's right.
DELGADO: You would think, but then we've also heard talk -- oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mercedes.
SCHLAPP: No, that's right. I can tell you that the way it works is that pretty much for every convention, these delegates are the ones that will vote on new rules. So come the week before the convention, the Rules Committee is going to get together. They're picking two members from each state, two delegates from each state who are going to comprise of this Rules Committee.
And yes, a majority will be Cruz and Trump delegates. With that being said, they both probably would like to see rule 40 stay in place.
HANNITY: All right. Rule 40 -- does that mean on the second, third, if there's a fourth ballot...
SCHLAPP: That's the big question, Sean. That's the big question, to see what would happen.
HANNITY: As I read this here, "Each candidate for the president, vice president of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a majority of delegates from each of the eight or more states severally prior to the presentation of the name" --
SCHLAPP: And I think -- I think, Sean, the rules will be set. There is a possibility of what is called a minority report which could -- which they could try to amend when it goes to the whole floor of the whole delegation. So when it goes to the convention floor, these rules will be voted in the rules committee, then go to the convention floor for a majority vote.
HANNITY: Yes. A.J., you've been --
DELGADO: And Sean, don't forget, rule 40, it's been around for a few years now. We would like to see it, Cruz and Trump supporters would like to see it stay in place, obviously. It helps our candidates. But it could be changed and anything can happen precisely because these rules, especially rule 40, which is so new, are so fluid.
SCHLAPP: And it would need to be changed with the majority of the delegates meaning what the rules committee takes to the convention floor and then the majority of the delegates --
HANNITY: Why are all these establishment types like Boehner, Kasich's whole strategy, Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, these are all important people within the Republican ranks. Why are they all suggesting that there can be another candidate that didn't even run, nominated on the floor of the convention? Why do they keep saying that? Why do I keep reading 10 articles a day about Paul Ryan's name possibly coming up if rule 40 is supposed to prevent that, A.J.?
DELGADO: I think -- I don't think they have a problem so much with Cruz as they do with Donald Trump, and that's why you're seeing the establishment since day one bring up the possibility of somebody else being the nominee because Donald Trump really stands against the gravy train and all that they have.
HANNITY: Is that why the establishment supported Cruz in Wisconsin, because they wanted to stop Trump and prevent anybody from getting to 1,237?
DELGADO: Yes. Exactly right. Cruz is basically someone that they don't like but they're willing to stand behind. He's really being used. They're willing to stand behind him or pretend to up until the convention simply to stop Trump, then once they get to the convention, pull some trickery and have Romney, Ryan, Rubio even, step in and win on the ballots.
HANNITY: Mercedes, I understand you're -- no. You're his better half. Matt was actually in the meeting where apparently and a lot of these rules were being discussed and convention logistics. Did this come up?
SCHLAPP: I'll tell you that this was in no way any sort of secret meeting or anything. It was to basically give operatives, political operatives and media types who were there, as well, the opportunity to understand what -- if we end up in contested convention, what are the rules? And there's a website up that has the lawyer of the RNC explaining what a contested convention means. As we know it's a complicated process, the delegates --
HANNITY: Can anybody else get nominated? Did you get that answered?
SCHLAPP: What I think what it all will lie -- here's the deal, Sean, with the rules committee. The rules committee will set the rules for the convention. The convention rules change every election cycle because, guess what, there's new delegates every election cycle.
HANNITY: They write the rules after the people voted.
DELGADO: This is insane.
HANNITY: Wow.
DELGADO: So insane.
SCHLAPP: The rules are going to be voted on, yes, the week before the convention.
HANNITY: That's insane. I agree with A.J.
SCHLAPP: But Sean, you have to remember the majority of the delegates so far will be Cruz and Trump delegates.
HANNITY: And they're be the people on the rules committee.
SCHLAPP: They will be the drivers in the rules committee, absolutely.
HANNITY: All right.
SCHLAPP: And then it has to be passed by the majority of the delegates. Again, the majority of the delegates in the convention will be Cruz and Trump supporters.
HANNITY: All right, A.J. and Mercedes, thank you.
SCHLAPP: Thank you.
HANNITY: And up next tonight right here on "Hannity" --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, he knew what the rules were when he decided to run for president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: We're hearing a lot about rules, rules this, rules that. Hillary laughing off complaints from the Sanders campaign about the large number of super delegates supporting only her. It's a huge disparity. Is she trying to steal the nomination? Is the establishment helping her on the Democratic side? "Fox &Friends'" Heather Nauert back to the big board. And then later tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you start telling what you used to pay. This is fine. It still low --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would --
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HANNITY: Remember those disturbing undercover videos talking about negotiating the price of baby body parts and buying Lamborghinis? The guy that took on Planned Parenthood said his home was raided yesterday by authorities, and was the raid politically motivated? He'll join us tonight in "Hannity" investigation exclusive straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So Hillary Clinton has lost six of the last seven state contests to Senator Bernie Sanders. Now, despite that fact, she's still favored to win the nomination. Is this because the Clinton machine is cooking the books in order to beat out Bernie Sanders? Back at the "Hannity" big board with a special "Hannity "investigation "Fox & Friends'" Heather Nauert. A big disparity with those super delegates, Heather.
NAUERT: Certainly. Hi there, Sean. It has been a tough couple of weeks for Hillary Clinton, but thanks to the delegate allocation process for the Democrats, Clinton is heavily favored to lock up the party's nomination, and the big reason why is that she has the support of the super delegates.
So it's important to take a look at what the super delegate actually is. They tend to be the party elites from the establishment who unlike pledge delegates can support whichever candidate that they would like even if it goes against the will of the voter.
So with that in mind, here's a look at where the Democrats' delegates count stands. A look at the total Democratic delegate count Clinton has a sizable lead but that's mostly due to the backing of the super delegates. She has 469 of them compared to just 31 for Bernie Sanders. And that's obviously a huge difference.
Now, if you take that super delegate support away and look at just the number of pledged delegates, it could be a very close race for Hillary Clinton leading just by about 200. Sean, Bernie Sanders and his supporters have been taking issue with the nomination process but earlier today Clinton literally laughed off those complaints. Take a look at this.
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(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: Well, you know, he knew what the rules were when he decided to run for president. But most importantly, I think we will reach whatever number is required. We're going to continue to acquire delegates and add to our total. I have more delegates than he does in a broader margin than President Obama had over me at this time in 2008. So I think we are doing well.
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NAUERT: "I think we are doing well," she says. Sean, we'll keep track of this.
HANNITY: Did I get that right, 469 for her and 31 -- poor Bernie. I'm feeling the Bern.
NAUERT: So is he.
HANNITY: Really, exactly. Thanks, Heather.
Joining us now with reaction is Democratic strategist Penny Lee, Fox News contributor Kirsten Powers. All right, so you break it down, I mean, six of seven. Bernie, he won 82-18 in Alaska, your old home state.
KIRSTEN POWERS, COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: And Penny's.
HANNITY: And 70-30 I believe in Washington, and 73-27 in Hawaii. Now you have another big win in Wisconsin, much bigger than was anticipated and what the polls show. All right, so it's only 202 delegate difference. This is neck and neck race but for the super delegates -- 469 to 31?
POWERS: That's true right now. I don't know if it is going to continue to be true because most of the caucus states are behind us and that tends to be where he does well.
But listen, I'm sympathetic to the Sanders complaint.
HANNITY: So am I. I feel bad for poor Bernie.
NAUERT: I have a problem with the super delegates. The idea is I guess to prevent somebody like a Bernie Sanders from getting the nomination, though, like I said, I think Hillary will still ultimately pull it out, legitimately getting more pledged delegates. But it is a much closer race if you just look at that and the way it's been case that he should --
HANNITY: Doesn't that seem corrupt? Doesn't that seem like the party basically rigs it for the person they want?
POWERS: Yes. Well, they didn't rig it just for the super delegates. They also rigged it through the debate process, and that was another thing that the Sanders campaign complained about a lot. So basically they set up the debate process in a way to protect Hillary Clinton and to not give Bernie Sanders as much airtime as he would deserve and expose her to being criticized.
HANNITY: You know, 25 percent of Democrats are now saying, Penny Lee, on the Democratic side that they will not vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. That's a huge loss if, in fact, she is the nominee. If I was a Bernie Sanders supporter, I got to be honest, I would be pretty pissed off.
PENNY LEE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: And 75 percent said that they will. But, you know, we also know that these polls are very, very early and we are in the thrust of this primary campaigns and emotions are running high, so people might have that feeling now.
HANNITY: It's 469 to 31?
LEE: -- between the two candidates.
HANNITY: Does that sound fair, 469 super delegates to 31.
LEE: But Sean, this is system that we have had in place since 1972.
HANNITY: And it's corrupt. That doesn't make it right.
LEE: It is something -- I mean, the same -- you could say Hillary Clinton could have made the same argument in 2008.
HANNITY: Hold on a second. Kirsten -- I'm not the democrat here.
LEE: She won the primary.
HANNITY: Isn't it corrupt?
POWERS: First of all, I hate disagreeing with Penny, first of all, who I adore. No, but I do have serious problem with this. I think the decision should be made by the voters. It shouldn't be made by party insiders. And, again, the purpose of this was precisely to protect, they believe, protect against a Bernie Sanders-type person who they think will lose because he's too liberal and he's not the person they want. And I think that it should be a decision that's made by the voters. And look, I think Republicans right now wish that they had super delegates. But, you know, I don't think that that's the way we're supposed to make the decisions.
HANNITY: Yes. I agree with you.
LEE: I would just say she is leading in the voting, too.
HANNITY: Not by a lot.
LEE: She does have more people that are voting for her that have actually cast the vote and voted for her. Regardless of where we are on the delegate count, more people have voted for her. So she is speaking to the will of the people and the will of the people putting her in front right now.
HANNITY: But she's only up 202 delegates.
POWERS: I agree with penny. I think she will legitimately win on pledged delegates. We can't really predict the future. But even with the New York state delegates, there was a story in the "New York Daily News" that they, the super delegates said even if Bernie Sanders won New York, they would still go with Hillary. That's not OK.
HANNITY: That's happening in other -- that's happened all over the country up to this point.
POWERS: Right. That's not OK.
HANNITY: That's not OK. And it seems that the will of the people on the Democratic side is not exactly taking into consideration. It's far from being democratic if you don't mind the play on words there, Penny.
LEE: Like I said, the popular vote is with Mrs. Clinton. And she is winning that.
HANNITY: Barely. By the skin of her teeth.
LEE: It is reflected and --
HANNITY: But the skin of her e-mail server.
LEE: Sean, I also think it is important to remember in 2008, remember, she won the last out of the seven contests and still lost.
HANNITY: So, you also have the issue of whether or not she'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit as a candidate, but that's a whole issue for another day.
POWERS: Yes.
HANNITY: Thank you both for being with us.
Coming up next tonight on "Hannity" --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people wanted to protect the rights of the - - and looking for specific -- I was like, wow. I didn't even know. Good for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, remember those disturbing undercover videos, Planned Parenthood exposed talking about selling baby body parts? Oh, we'll get money for a Lamborghini. The activist behind those recordings says that his home was raided yesterday. Was that politically motivated? And why are they going after him and not Planned Parenthood? An interview you will only see right here tonight on HANNITY.
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HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So last year the Center for Medical Progress released a series of undercover videos that appeared to show Planned Parenthood officials negotiating the sale of aborted fetuses. Now, take a look at some of the most repulsive moments. We have got to warn you, what you are about to see is extremely disturbing, especially to some viewers. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yesterday was the first time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you expect for intact tissue, what sort of compensation what sort of?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now David Daleiden is the founder for the Center for Medical Progress who is behind those videos you just saw, he now claims his home was raided yesterday by agents from the California Department of Justice. And according to Daleiden, all of his undercover videos were seized in that raid. So was this search and seizure politically motivated? We reached out to the California DOJ to get their side of the story. They said they couldn't comment. It's an ongoing investigation. Here with an exclusive interview is the founder of the Center for Medical Progress David Daleiden. By the way, isn't selling baby body parts or altering abortion procedures to preserve baby body parts, isn't that illegal?
DAVID DALEIDEN, FOUNDER, CENTER FOR MEDICAL PROGRESS: It is, Sean. And actually the very worst baby body parts violations in Planned Parenthood's baby parts harvesting program took place in California. Those clips your viewers just say were all filmed with Planned Parenthood representatives and Planned Parenthood business partners if the state of California.
But instead of investigating them and instead of going after them, Attorney General Kamala Harris, who is running for Senate and fundraising on her website off of Planned Parenthood, receives money from Planned Parenthood, just invaded my home the other day and took all of the video footage including unreleased video footage.
HANNITY: Do you have duplicates?
DALEIDEN: We're still assessing the extent of what they took and what kind of backup copies might be available. But they took everything, including footage that has not seen the light of day yet.
HANNITY: Here is the important question. Those are videos, my interpretation of them and yours, isn't that people breaking the law? Did they go after them?
DALEIDEN: Absolutely. And in fact Planned Parenthood's major baby parts partner in the state of California, StemExpress, is currently under investigation by the United States Congress. There's multiple subpoenas for their records and their transactions with Planned Parenthood that have gone out, and they're fighting tooth and nail in their lawsuits against me and through the use of their political cronies not to have that information get out to the public.
HANNITY: David, it's very shocking. We'll stay on this case, and if they go after you, I'm sure a lot of people will want to support you. Thanks so much for being with us. I'm sorry you're going through this.
When we come back we have more "Hannity" right after this break.
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HANNITY: All right, time for our "Question of the Day." So, do you think Hillary Clinton is trying to steal the Democratic nomination? Bernie, you better start paying attention. Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think.
Unfortunately, that is all the time we have this evening. As always, thank you for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
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