Ted Cruz on AIPAC speech, Israel policy, Obama's Cuba trip
On 'The Kelly File,' presidential candidate draws distinctions between himself and Trump
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," March 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, we are exactly 12 hours away from the next polls opening in "Campaign 2016" as the candidates fight it out for their share of nearly 100 delegates.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. While the remaining Republican candidates brace for a hectic day tomorrow, today they were all busy courting the same voters in the same place. The AIPAC policy conference. It is the preeminent annual gathering for supporters of Israel. We'll have more for you on that in a moment including an interview with Texas Senator Ted Cruz a little later in the hour.
But first, to two big contests about to begin. The largest prize, the winner take all state of Arizona. Fifty eight delegates at stake there. The latest polling shows it's Donald Trump's race to lose. He has received the backing of several prominent state leaders, like Sheriff Joe Arpaio and former Arizona Governor Jan Brewer. Then there's Utah. The math will be a little more complicated there. Forty delegates are at play and if one candidate wins the caucuses by more than 50 percent, then Utah is winner take all. If not, the delegates will be awarded on a proportional basis. Right now, the latest poll shows Senator Ted Cruz in the lead there, he's won support in Utah from 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney.
Chris Stirewalt is our Fox News digital politics editor. He's here to tell us what to expect. Chris, good to see you. So --
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Good to see you.
KELLY: So, the conventional wisdom is Arizona is going to go to Trump, Utah will go to Ted Cruz. What's your thinking on it?
STIREWALT: Conventional wisdom ought to be very right. There are hardly two states that should stack up better for these two candidates as we head into the homestretch, by the way, who would have thought that we would get to continue to cover elections at this point in March in 2016?
KELLY: You know what, I'll tell you what, you raise a good point because I scheduled a vacation with my little ones down in Florida for this week, they're in Spring break. And then I found out we have election coverage. So, I said, well, I'm not going. So Bret is going to have to do it by himself.
STIREWALT: Well, I'll be there with him and the viewers will not be as happy that I will be there, but we're just going to do the best we can.
KELLY: But I got to go to Disney, Stirewalt.
STIREWALT: Better you than me. I would cover 50 elections before I would do that. And then we are cool.
KELLY: Okay. But we digress.
STIREWALT: Quite. The answer is this, if you look for a state that matches Donald Trump's voter profile, the demographic profile for Donald Trump, Arizona is the one. Obviously the big issue in Arizona has been immigration. You have a state that has been rocked, roiled and really hurt by illegal immigration and has shown that there is a federal and state level incapacity for dealing even with legal immigration, on top of that you have a state that is not the top when it comes to education, not the top when it comes to workforce, not the top in a lot of ways. It has economically struggled and struggled with immigration. This is Trump country.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
STIREWALT: But then you flip over to Utah, this is state that's doing really well. Utah is the youngest state demographically speaking. It is a state with very low unemployment. This is a state that is economically succeeding. This is a state that is doing very well. This is the kind of state that Donald Trump doesn't do well. You don't have the overlay of ethnic tension. You don't have that same overlay. The two states are right next to each other. Utah is also, by the way, the most churchgoing state in the union.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
STIREWALT: It is the most conservative State in the Union. So, that should be very good for Ted Cruz.
KELLY: This is, I mean, let's say they split the results as expected tomorrow. Where are we in the race? What does that change?
STIREWALT: Well, we have to put one caveat on. If John Kasich denies Ted Cruz an outright full majority win in Utah, he can expect to have a lot of raspberries blown in his direction by the Republican Party because if the function of John Kasich being in this race is to deny Ted Cruz the opportunity to fight Donald Trump to the end, there will be very little patience and the patience for Kasich is already getting smaller and smaller and smaller but if Kasich denies -- if he is in there for five percent of six percent in Utah and denies Cruz the chance to defeat Trump outright and win all those delegates and keep this rolling on, if that's John Kasich's role in this race, he is going to be Dr. Stinkburger in the minds of many, many, many Republicans.
KELLY: But not the Trump supporters.
STIREWALT: Well, no, of course, for Trump supporters, they want Kasich to divide that vote, have that result in Utah be split so it's not a split decision tomorrow but instead that Trump gets closer and closer to the point. But one thing I will say, and I think this is important to point out, when we look at the polling in Utah and this includes the latest one that we saw out today, yes, Ted Cruz is ahead but you know what else the poll showed, that the state becomes a swing state in the general election because Donald Trump is that unpopular in Utah. So, the map is being redrawn.
KELLY: I'm just -- I'm kind of stuck on you saying that they're going to blow a bunch of raspberries at John Kasich. I mean, isn't the raspberry, like you kiss your baby's belly and you make that sound?
STIREWALT: Everybody knows that's --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I couldn't get past it. I don't want to see that. My eyes.
STIREWALT: That's crazy stuff. A raspberry is something different.
KELLY: Bye, Chris.
STIREWALT: Bye.
KELLY: And I don't want to be thinking about John Kasich while I'm doing that to my baby.
Also today, in the shadow of Capitol Hill, a number of current and former Republican lawmakers met with GOP front-runner Donald Trump to discuss policy and political strategy. My next guest was there.
California Congressman Duncan Hunter is a Trump supporter and member of the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, good to see you. So, what was the purpose of this meeting?
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER, R-CALIF., DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hey, Megyn, number one, he says hi and sends his best wishes to you. He wanted to make sure I passed that on.
KELLY: I'm sure that's true.
HUNTER: It's not true. I'm just joking.
(LAUGHTER)
But, you know, here's what it was. He was in town for the first time meeting with people that had supported him and had never met him so that's kind of what this was. He didn't, you know, delve into any deep policy matters. It was substantive but it wasn't crazy substantive. And we just talked. We heard from him. He talked politics. A few of us talked policy. And that was it.
KELLY: Did he listen? Because some of the critiques on Trump from even some of his top supporters is, he needs to study. You know, if he would read some policy papers and so on, when he goes out there at these debates or general election debate if he gets that far and so on, he could really impress on substance and not just style.
HUNTER: He has time for that, and, you know, there was policy stuff and he did listen because Trump is not a dumb guy. He would not be where he is if he was dumb, so he is smart and he knows what he does not know and he knows that some people have the answers to that. There's guys like me that have -- I did three tours. I've been doing, you know, foreign policy stuff and military stuff for seven years in Congress. I have advice for him. So he understands it. He didn't do tours overseas, right? He's not going to act like he has. But he'll still take that and kind of put that into his own show. Meaning he's going to internalize what we tell him and he's going to take that on the road. If you listen to his AIPAC speech, it was like listening to Mitt Romney. I mean, I was listening to it on the radio and it sounded like it was not the Mr. Trump from the last six months, it was a new Mr. Trump giving a great speech --
KELLY: Wasn't he using a teleprompter on that?
HUNTER: Well, I don't know but he did very well.
KELLY: Well, I'm just saying, this is what a lot of his supporters have been saying for months that if he could be more disciplined the teleprompter can help you out, it can help you organize your thoughts. I use it all the time.
HUNTER: Not during interviews but scripts that get us from interview to interview. And so, it can sort of just help you stay disciplined and on message.
KELLY: Right. We could all learn more about everything, frankly. I don't think he has had -- I don't think he has had to at this point. And I think he's very focused on simply winning. And I think, once you win or at least get much closer than we are now, like you guys just talked about, you're still covering the election politics now. So, you know, he has time for this. He's a very smart guy. He will pick it up very quickly. And he has surrounded himself with smart people.
HUNTER: Great to see you, sir.
KELLY: Thank you.
Joining me now with his stake, Stuart Stevens, a former Mitt Romney campaign strategist and founding partner at Strategic Partners and Media. Stuart, thank you for being here. So what do you make, are we now seeing, you know, a more disciplined, on message Donald Trump as of today?
STUART STEVENS, FORMER MITT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: Well, listen, I think those of us today that have been critical of Donald Trump for not listening and not surrounding himself with people who know more than him have to say it's a good thing when he does, so if he's with smart people like the congressman and others and listening, I think that's a good thing. And he should be congratulated for it. You know, this -- what's amazing is that we are making a thing about a presidential candidate meeting with people who know policy. And he's a front-runner and, you know, it's sort of late in the race for this to be happening.
You know, two other things happened today. One of sort of tactics and one of substance. He said today that the United States should really probably get out of NATO. It's really sort of an extraordinary thing for any presidential candidate to say, it just sort of announce it without any sort of rollout or any sort of building a case for it. But at this time when you have a ground war in Europe, when you have countries like Sweden is rearming, when you have this resurgent Russia. I mean, Republicans have a chance to really have a competitive advantage pointing out the problems with Hillary Clinton's world view. This is a person that famously wanted to reset relations with Russia.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
STEVENS: And yet if we have a candidate who's out there saying, just sort of in an off-hand way, well, you know, probably this NATO thing we should maybe get out of NATO. It's just not the way to convince people that you're serious about leading not only the country but the world.
KELLY: What's the second thing?
STEVENS: Second thing is when Elizabeth Warren went out and banged up Trump and he came back and called her an Indian.
KELLY: She came out with a tweet storm against him calling him a loser.
STEVENS: I would bet -- right. And I would bet inside Elizabeth Warren's office they had some office pool that he would do that. You can't just be baited like that that easily when you're a presidential candidate, it just takes you off message. And, I mean, he's calling her American Indian as if there's something wrong with being an American Indian and it goes to this whole history of whether or not she claimed ethnicity to get into Harvard. But it's just this sort of, you know, kind of frat boy taunt which is fine if you're all this sort of -- you know, inner guys sort of loved it and thought it was great, hey, you know, Mr. Trump, that's terrific. It's not just the way you broaden a base. And what's interesting is, you know, tonight we're talking about two states, Arizona and Utah, and the primary, Mitt Romney, he didn't have trouble carrying both of these states. And they are very different. He carried both of them with big majorities in the primary.
KELLY: Well, wasn't he the only one effectively in the race by that point?
STEVENS: No, no. The last presidential debate was in Arizona, and there were four, five candidates still in that race, including Speaker Gingrich. It was very much still a race then. But look, ultimately, you know, politics is about addition, not subtraction. It's something, when I came up with Haley Barbour, it's something he always used to say, it's about adding more people, not taking away people. And that for Republicans to have any chance at all here, we have to take what Mitt Romney got and we have to add to that and there's different ways to do that, but basically we can't lose any of the voters that we have and have any sort of fighting chance at all. And that's the business that the nominee needs to get about.
KELLY: Stuart, great to see you.
STEVENS: Good to see you.
KELLY: In moments, Senator Ted Cruz will join "The Kelly File" to talk tomorrow's primary, his speech tonight on Israel and new reports on a VP pick.
Plus, between some crazy delegate math and some tough contests ahead, it looks increasingly like anything could happen at the Republican convention. And RNC Chairman Reince Priebus is here to break down what he expects on the road ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nobody is going to have enough delegates. We are going to go to a convention. It's going to be open. I'm very comfortable with heading to that convention with momentum and more delegates and we'll let the people there make a choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My leading Republican opponent has promised that he as president would be neutral between Israel and the Palestinians. Well let me be very, very clear. As president, I will not be neutral.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have said they would maintain this Iranian deal. My view is very different. On the first day in office, I will rip this catastrophic Iranian nuclear deal to shreds.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, that was Senator Ted Cruz less than two hours ago giving an impassioned speech at the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee Conference. The Texas Senator said just last week that he would use the speech to America's largest pro-Israel organization to draw distinctions between himself and GOP front-runner Donald Trump.
Joining me now, Republican Senator from Texas and presidential candidate Ted Cruz. Senator, good to see you.
CRUZ: Good to be with you, Megyn.
KELLY: So, you know, that was basically the distinction, you know, that Donald Trump has said he would be neutral in trying to negotiate a deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians and you don't believe neutrality is appropriate.
CRUZ: Well, I think it's more than not being appropriate. Anyone that can tell the difference between our friends and allies, anyone that cannot distinguish between the state of Israel which is fighting to defend itself citizens from terrorism and Islamic terrorists who are murdering women and children who are murdering Israelis and murdering Americans, if you can't tell the difference between those, then that raises real questions about your fitness and judgment to be commander-in-chief.
KELLY: But here's what his defenders would say that he's talking about a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians, not necessarily Hamas which we dubbed the terrorist group. But if we really want to achieve peace, how can you do it, this is what his defenders would say, how can you do it going in there already having chosen a side?
CRUZ: Well, for one thing, the Palestinian authority is in what they call a unity government with Hamas. Hamas is part of the Palestinian authority and Hamas is a terrorist organization that celebrates the murder of innocent civilians. You know, just a few days ago, Taylor Force, an American, a Texan, an Eagle Scout, a West Point graduate, an army veteran, was murdered by a Palestinian terrorist and the Palestinian authority celebrated, cheered. They incite this violence and actually pay compensation to the families of the terrorists who commit these crimes. And what Donald's comments about neutrality reflect is that he buys into the typical media narrative and the view of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton that there is somehow a moral equivalency between Israel and the terrorists.
The barrier to peace is not Israel. Israel wants peace. The barrier to peace is the Palestinian authority that refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and that continues to support terrorism, and if we're going to see peace, I would love to see peace in the Middle East. The only way to do it is not with a president treating the terrorists as if they're standing on the same level as the IDF Forces fighting to keep people safe, but rather to have America stand unapologetically with Israel and America can help broker a deal, but our allegiance between our allies and our enemies should not be confused and Donald Trump has demonstrated no understanding of that.
You know, I would note also, Megyn, another major foreign policy area that Donald's knowledge is badly deficient is the Iranian nuclear deal. Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have said they would maintain this nuclear deal. Now Donald has said he would renegotiate it. He would come in and negotiate a better deal. Listen, anyone who says that doesn't understand the Ayatollah Khomeini who pledges death to America. There's not a better deal with Khomeini, the only thing Khomeini understands is strength instead of weakness and appeasement. And Donald Trump has not demonstrated that he understands --
KELLY: Okay.
CRUZ: -- the nature of Islamic terrorists.
KELLY: Let me ask you a question about 2016 because a report broke today that you and your campaign were or are considering a unity ticket with Marco Rubio and actually did some polling on it, and looked into it. That so far Rubio hasn't been interested in that but that would definitely be news to a lot of Republicans and would be good news to certainly Rubio supporters. Is it true?
CRUZ: Listen, I read that and kind of shook my head in wonderment. It's amazing the things that reporters will write. I have had not any conversations with Marco about that. My team hasn't had any conversations with his team about that. I think the world of Marco Rubio. I think he's very, very talented. He's a wonderful communicator. He really can tell his story and weave the tapestry, paint the picture of the American dream powerfully. And I'll tell you Megyn what we're seeing is the overwhelming majority of Rubio supporters are coming to support our campaign. And I wouldn't -- we enthusiastically welcome them and I would enthusiastically welcome Marco's support. I think he would add a great deal to our team and I hope he does supports us.
KELLY: But would you rule out the unity ticket in particular? His support, of course you want that.
CRUZ: Listen, I absolutely want his support. I want the support of John Kasich. We are seeing --
KELLY: You're dodging. You're dodging. Come on. Tell me the truth. What's the deal? Would you consider a unity ticket with him?
CRUZ: The truth is I've had no conversations with him about that. I think any Republican would naturally have Marco on their short list and you would look seriously to him as a vice presidential choice. I haven't had that conversation with him but I would certainly welcome his support.
KELLY: Got it.
CRUZ: And I think he would add an enormous amount to the team.
KELLY: Need a quick prediction on what's going to happen tomorrow in Utah and Arizona before I let you go.
CRUZ: You know, I think tomorrow is going to be a very, very good day. In Utah, I'm exceedingly optimistic. We have the support, Mitt Romney announced that he's going to be voting for me tomorrow in Utah. He encouraged people in Utah and across the country to vote for Ted. He said Ted is the only one who can beat Donald Trump. And Mitt went on to say, a vote for John Kasich is a vote for Donald Trump. But just a spoiler vote.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
CRUZ: We also got the support of Senator Mike Lee and also Governor Gary Herbert, the Governor in Utah. So, I think we're going to do very well in Utah. Arizona, I'm encouraged, but Arizona is very competitive. Donald Trump has a lead in the early vote, a pretty significant lead. We're surging and ahead on Election Day and so what happens on Arizona is going to come down to turnout. If there's a big, big turnout tomorrow then the Election Day vote could overcome Donald's lead in early vote but it really depends on conservatives coming together and, you know, we've got a lot of strong conservatives in Arizona supporting us including Congressman Matt Sam and Trent Franks and Paul Gosar. So, I'm very encouraged that the strong conservatives are unifying --
KELLY: Got it.
CRUZ: -- and we're seeing the whole range of the Republican Party coming together behind our campaign because we're the only campaign that has beaten Donald Trump over and over and over again nine times and we're the only campaign that can and will beat Donald and critically go on to beat Hillary Clinton and win the general election.
KELLY: Senator Ted Cruz, always great speaking with you. Thanks for being here.
CRUZ: Thank you, Megyn. And don't forget to come to TedCruz.org and support us.
KELLY: I know you don't mean me.
CRUZ: No, no, I would love your support, Megyn. If you maxed out --
KELLY: I'm busy.
CRUZ: -- we could make news. You know, you're a big fancy TV person. You could afford to max out.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Never made a political donation in my life. Not looking to start. Great to see you, though.
CRUZ: Great to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: When a Frank Luntz focus group was recently asked to evaluate Hillary Clinton, their reaction was remarkable and we have it for you tonight.
Plus, a Donald Trump supporter this weekend attacked a protester at a campaign rally and tonight Judge Andrew Napolitano is here on the complaints that these protesters are there to intentionally start trouble.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a sign that says "Trump is bad for America." The guy grabbed the sign out of my hand as I was being escorted out of the building and sucker punched me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Welcome back to "The Kelly File." Less than 12 hours until the polls open in the next big primaries. Arizona and Utah. And today, Donald Trump for the first time revealed his foreign policy team. Mr. Trump listing the names of five people who are counseling him. Some of them may be known to you including Walid Phares a Fox News Mideast expert and advisor to Congress on terrorism among others. You can see Senator Jeff Sessions there as well.
Joining me now, Stephen Miller who is a senior adviser to the Trump campaign and former advisor to Republican Senator Jeff Sessions. And Marc Thiessen who is a Fox News contributor and former chief speechwriter to President George W. Bush. Great to see you both.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good so see you, Megyn.
KELLY: So, Marc, your thoughts on what we heard from Trump today at AIPAC and this foreign policy team he's now announcing?
THIESSEN: Yes. So, we heard today the scripted Donald Trump and the unscripted Donald Trump. At AIPAC, we heard the scripted Donald Trump. But it was pretty good. He knows how to do this. The first time he's ever delivered a prepared speech, he did a pretty good job, he hit all the grace notes though there were some things in there that were surprising. He said both that he would scrap the Iran deal and also enforce it which is kind of incoherent. But then we heard the unscripted Donald Trump at the Washington Post but then it was an absolute disaster.
KELLY: Did he sat down and had a meeting with their editorial board today?
THIESSEN: Yes. He had a meeting with the editorial board. And it was sort of a stream of consciousness Donald Trump in this open meeting and it was a debacle. I mean, he said our military bases in Asia, they don't serve any purpose for us whatsoever. He said that NATO was in alliance for an earlier time and that we spent hundreds of billions of dollars on NATO which is factually incorrect. We do not spend hundreds of billions of dollars in NATO. And that we can't afford it anymore. And he basically said, we can't afford to lead the world anymore.
So, at AIPAC, he says we're going to lead a global coalition to dismantle Iran's terror network, but at the Washington Post he says, we are a poor and deader nation, and we can't afford to lead anymore. Those are incompatible things. So, Donald Trump unscripted is very different and much scarier than Donald Trump on reading a speech.
KELLY: What about that Stephen? What about Marc's claims in particular on, you know, what he said in terms of the money that we spent on NATO?
STEPHEN MILLER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Hey, great to be here tonight. Well, Marc, I hope you feel better now that you've gotten all that off your chest.
(LAUGHTER)
Uh-hm -- the -- it's funny, Marc is complaining about -- uh-hm -- or talking about the scripted remarks tonight. But I heard Marc practicing his speech in the greenroom and it was identical to what he just said to you. So, I guess Marc likes scripted remarks too.
But I don't really know where to begin with what...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Let's keep it higher brow than that, Stephen.
THIESSEN: That's the best you can do, Stephen?
MILLER: I can do better. Here's one for you, OK?
THIESSEN: Yes.
MILLER: You're talking about NATO. I have a question for you, Mark. If there's a war -- there's a war guarantee in NATO, if Russia incurs on Ukraine's borders, would you send American troops to fight and die in Ukraine? I suspect the answer to that question is no.
KELLY: Before we let Mark on...
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: Well, hold on.
KELLY: Before we let Mark on the microscope because he's not yet running for president. Maybe someday.
MILLER: Right. And then...
KELLY: But can you just respond to Mark's claims about what Trump said on NATO and that he says he's factually inaccurate in his claims about what we spend in NATO.
MILLER: Right. I was getting through that. The reality is that NATO is an organization made many decades ago that is incongruent with our current foreign policy challenges with respect to Iran and dismantling Iran's global terror networks. That could be accomplished with economic sanctions, not with costly nation building that Mark has supported throughout his career that has drained our blood and treasure and made us less safe.
And so, this is a major choice in this election. And so, what I'm saying tonight to voters as a representative of the Trump campaign is, if you want more foreign wars, if you want to lose more soldiers, more blood, and more treasure fighting and dying overseas in one country after another country after another country, then you can follow the path that other candidates have laid out and that Mark supports.
KELLY: It's OK.
THIESSEN: Yes.
MILLER: But we're talking about defending...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I got it.
MILLER: ... the core interest of the United States.
KELLY: Let him respond. It sounds like, you know, sounds a lot like Rand Paul. We've heard this same sort of line which was very popular with some voters, Mark.
THIESSEN: Absolutely. Yes. I think that's unfair, Megyn, because actually Donald Trump makes Rand Paul look like a neocon. I mean, that's the problem with Rand Paul's foreign policy. And we just saw in Stephen's answer to you the incompetence when it comes to foreign policy of the Trump operation because Ukraine is not a member of NATO is there is no article 5...
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: No, but I was...
THIESSEN: So, apparently...
MLLLER: I know that. I was asking you -- I was asking you about that.
KELLY: So, now you love to talk.
MILLER: I was asking you.
KELLY: Hold on. Hold on.
MILLER: I was asking you about the effort. I was asking you about the longstanding effort to get Ukraine...
KELLY: Hello? Hey, that's your take.
MILLER: ... to get Georgia, to get other Eastern countries
KELLY: Stephen, stand down.
MILLER: There is an effort to expand ...
KELLY: All right. Stephen, I'm going to have to get rid of you if you don't stop talking. OK. Thank you. My job is to maintain order. That's it. OK. I'm going to let Mark speak and then I'm going to let you speak again, Stephen. Let him speak uninterrupted, please. Go ahead, Mark.
MILLER: Yes, sorry.
THIESSEN: So, what Donald Trump laid out today in his Washington Post interview was a foreign policy that basically comes to this. Withdraw from the world so we can focus on nation building here at home, pull back from our allies in Europe and Asia and so, embrace people like Vladimir Putin and we basically let Europe lead and we lead from behind.
That is the Obama foreign policy. And Stephen, here's a question for you. Let's play a little game called who said it, Donald Trump or Barack Obama. Here's a quote. "Over the last decade we've spent a trillion dollars on war at a time of rising debt and hard economic times. It's time to focus on nation building here at home."
MILLER: Well, we all know that President Obama's talked about nation building here at home. The problem is he hasn't done that because he's left our border wide open. He sent all of our manufacturing jobs overseas and he's hollowed out the middle class.
An agenda you support also, Mark. And the point that I was making with NATO is that there's an effort to get Eastern bloc countries to join NATO as part of the effort to try and push back Putin that would put the United States in a position of offer war guarantees to countries that we're not going to fight and die for. And this has been a major debate and you know that.
KELLY: OK.
MILLER: And with respect to his speech today at AIPAC...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: We got to go so quickly.
MILLER: ... and this is important. He laid out a plan to sanction Iran, to dismantle their terror networks, to protect our vital economic interests and that combined with bringing back our manufacturing jobs...
KELLY: OK.
MILLER: ... protecting our border, and protecting American workers will revitalize our middle class and a stark contrast to the globalism of Mark and his donors.
KELLY: No more. It's over. I don't know how this got so mean.
MILLER: His donor friends.
KELLY: We don't like mean on The Kelly File. These guys like be friendly.
MILLER: I thought it was fun and great. I enjoyed it a lot.
KELLY: I don't think you guys like each other. Great to see you nonetheless.
Coming up, Trump's foreign policy team maybe making news tonight. But one of the big stories this weekend was the latest outburst of violence at a Trump rally. Again, a Trump supporter was caught on camera attacking a protester. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Trace Gallagher live in our West Coast newsroom with more on this. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the first seven minutes of the Trump rally in Tucson, three different sets of protesters were ejected. At first, Trump made light of it saying we love our protesters. When security kicked out the second group, Trump ignored it.
But then came a third set, a woman wearing a Ku Klux Klan hood and a man wearing an American flag shirt carrying a picture of Trump's face covered by a Confederate Flag. Trump said they were disgusting and told security to get them out. That's when Air Force Staff Sergeant Tony Pettway attacked. Watch again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And while the crowd chanted USA airman Pettway was arrested, the man who got repeatedly punched and kicked was led outside and told a local TV station that he attended the Bernie Sanders rally the night before and nobody got punched. Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRYAN SANDERS, ATTACKED AT TRUMP'S RALLY: You got this with its fascism and an angry mob and then you got what happened last night with Bernie and that's democracy right there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: But Donald Trump later indicated the protesters came looking for trouble. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He happened to be African- American. The person who was a supporter. And it was a shame what happened, but you know what, he saw a member of the Ku Klux Klan and you people don't write that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And in fairness, there were agitators taunting Trump supporters with foul language, shutting down a highway, causing a huge traffic jam forcing some Trump supporters to walk for miles to actually get to the rally. Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Well, as Trace mentioned we're hearing complaints that these protesters are going to the rallies looking to start trouble, so where do you draw the legal line here?
Judge Andrew Napolitano is our Fox News senior judicial analyst and a New York Times bestselling author. So, Trump is suggesting that the guy punched the protester because he got upset because he saw somebody in the KKK.
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: That's what Donald Trump suggested but the law is if you want to wear a KKK outfit at any rally to protest your view of the speaker, and that's all you're doing is wearing it, and perhaps walking around with it, you're not shouting the speaker down, you're not throwing punches, you're not throwing chairs, you're not preventing the speaker from using the room from which he rented it, that, itself, is protected speech as much protected as the speech that the speaker's giving.
KELLY: So, the woman we're seeing wearing the KKK hat, she's not the one getting beaten down but she's right behind him. She's got a KKK hat on. That --
NAPOLITANO: That is protected speech.
KELLY: That is protected speech.
NAPOLITANO: As is the guy who...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: But he's not beating the woman with the hat.
NAPOLITANO: He's beating a guy that wore an American flag, a sort of a half bandanna, half shirt. For what reason he's beating that guy, who knows, but that is protected speech as well.
In fact, this is a Supreme Court opinion right on point that any twisted, tormented version of the flag is protected speech.
KELLY: So, that's the legality of the shirt and the hat and all that. People are trying to pin this on Trump because he has used language that would...
NAPOLITANO: Right.
KELLY: I mean, he's directly said, you know, punch him in the face.
NAPOLITANO: Right.
KELLY: And I'll pay your legal fees.
NAPOLITANO: Right. Then the old days that they'd carry them out on a stretcher. Right.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Then he said he was considering paying the legal fees.
NAPOLITANO: Right.
KELLY: He said he was considering paying the legal fees of the guy who punched the protester right in the face last week or two weeks ago. So, to what extent can this be attributed to Donald Trump legally?
NAPOLITANO: Very little, if at all. You may argue he's created an atmosphere and there's going to be a political reaction to that. That's a political argument. But legally, if he says there he is, get him, and the crowd descends immediately...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: That's a different story.
NAPOLITANO: That's a different story. But if he says there he is, get him, and an hour later or half an hour later, even five minutes later or at another rally they pounce on a similarly situated person, Trump's speech is protected.
KELLY: That's not good enough. We're all responsible for our own conduct. So, with respect to the people doing the punching, and hello, stop doing that.
NAPOLITANO: They are responsible.
KELLY: They're going down.
NAPOLITANO: Let me tell you who else is responsible. The police. The police should not kick somebody out because Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton or Ted Cruz says to kick them out because, again, unless they are materially interfering with the speech...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: If they're disrupting, if they're materially disrupting...
NAPOLITANO: Then they can be kicked out. But if they are just displaying some emblem, something as hateful as the KKK, something as twisted as a torn up flag, something as direct as a t-shirt, that's protected speech. And the police have to protect the right of the speaker to speak, the right of the listeners to hear and the right of the protesters to protest. They have to find that fine line that protects all of them.
KELLY: And that's the thing, the disruption has to be very big, in a school even, a school can't throw out a student unless it can be shown it's a significant disruption to the class. And so, in a rally, a presidential rally, the standard would be even more forgiving of the protester. Judge, great to see you as always.
NAPOLITANO: Good to be here, Megyn. Enjoy your vacation.
KELLY: Thank you very much. Going to the happiest place on earth.
NAPOLITANO: Yes, it is.
KELLY: What it's like.
NAPOLITANO: Your kids will love it.
KELLY: That's right here? That's terrible news.
NAPOLITANO: You didn't hear that from me.
KELLY: That is bad news.
Also tonight, between some crazy delegate math, and some tough contests ahead, it looks like anything could happen at the republican convention this summer.
And the RNC chair is here next to tell us what he expects on the road ahead. Are they going to change the rules? Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, with more than 30 GOP primary contests behind us, the republican convention is now looking more up for grabs so what should we expect?
Joining me now, chairman of the Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: The thing that seems to be concerning Donald Trump's fans, his voters and Ted Cruz's voters is the possibility of somebody who's not in this race right now swooping into the convention as underdog here to save the day and party leaders convincing delegates, forget Ted Cruz, forget Donald Trump, forget John Kasich, vote for Mitt Romney, vote for Paul Ryan. Is that a possibility?
REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I would say this, as every kind of new element you insert into the hypothetical becomes more and more less likely. So, I mean, so whether we're going to have an open convention or not is sort where we're at. It's possible that Ted Cruz or Donald Trump can get to the majority of bound delegates before the convention.
But now inserting all of these other wrinkles, each wrinkle comes with a lesser degree of certainty. So, you know, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, what happened was people ran in individual states for delegate.
They became the voting delegates at a convention. They came unbound. They voted for who they wanted to just like you would if you voted for the president of the Kiwanis Club or the NRA, as long as you were a member and you're a voting member, you voted.
Well, somewhere along the line, people decided to why don't we expand the participation in this process and we'll have primaries and caucuses and conventions and those delegates now will come but we'll tie their hands on one vote and we'll say, on the first vote you have to follow what your state does, but then on the second and third vote thereafter, you can do what you want. That's really in a nutshell what we have at a convention. That's more complicated than that, but that's basically what it is.
KELLY: So, the bottom line is if no candidate has 1,237 going into the convention and they take a first vote and nobody's got the majority, then they go to the second vote and it truly is a free for all at that point? At that point any one of those guys whose on the ballot and technically another name could be submitted.
PRIEBUS: Generally that's right, however, you have to consider that now these delegates that are going in bound to candidates, in many cases they're going to be forming relationships with those candidates and those candidates are going to be really smart and they're going to talk to those delegates and they're going to have information.
So, it's not like suddenly on the second or third ballot everyone just suddenly kind of goes wild. I think over, if you get to a third, or fourth, or a fifth ballot, then that's when things could interesting.
KELLY: Right.
PRIEBUS: But you know, this is the way, actually if you go back in the history of our party where many, many conventions were open convention. I mean, Abraham Lincoln there is...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Well, so that we've seen that. We've seen that. There's been I think at least eight contested conventions and then most of those the party who emerged as the nominee was not the party who went in with the most delegates, so that's why question to you.
Because I know the party, and you said, we will support the nominee, whoever that nominee is. Well, let's take a step before that, let me ask you whether you believe the person who has the most delegates going into the convention, even if it's not a majority, must wind up the nominee?
PRIEBUS: Well, I would never say must but certainly I'd probably state the obvious that the closer you get to 1,237, I would think that on the first or the second, if you're really, really close, that it's obviously more likely.
But, you know, one thing that I've said many times, I'm not going to help anyone get to 1,237. I mean, even if they're -- it doesn't matter. I'm not going to help you get delegates. I'm not going to hurt you and prevent you from getting delegates nor am I going to ascribe to the theory that the minority of delegates actually chooses the nominee for the majority.
You have to have a majority of delegates. That's, you know, not that it's that comparable, but I won the chairmanship, Megyn, on the seventh ballot.
KELLY: Wow.
PRIEBUS: Wasn't quite a...
KELLY: It hurt your feelings.
PRIEBUS: It wasn't quite a landslide. But I never -- but I was never behind but no one came to me and said, well, third ballot, you got it, you're ahead. No, you have to hit the majority. The majority -- you know, democracy is a pretty special thing and we're going to follow it and it's going to be incumbent upon me to be overly transparent in everything that we do.
KELLY: I got to go. So, quick last -- quick last question to answer. Do you think we're going to be headed for a contested convention or do you think it will be resolved before we get to July?
PRIEBUS: You know, it's possible. I know it's not a great answer for you but I'm not going to say absolutely. But, and I can't obviously say no way. I think it's possible. It's mathematically possible that we'll be in for an open convention.
KELLY: You're going to have -- you're going to have a lot on your hands, Mr. Chairman, if that happens and we'll all be there to cover it. Thank you for giving us the time tonight.
PRIEBUS: All right.
KELLY: Well, when a Frank Luntz focus group was recently asked to evaluate Hillary Clinton, their reaction was remarkable and we have it for you right after this break. Don't miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was worst the liar I think I've ever seen in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She lied about lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, that was a bipartisan Frank Luntz focus group weighing in on democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton and her lingering issues with trust.
Mark Hannah is a former aide to the Obama presidential campaign and a partner at the Truman National Security project. I expected more. I think we run at a time. So, you kind of clip that two seconds stuff (AUDIO GAP) don't find her honest and trustworthy.
MARK HANNAH, TRUMAN NATIONAL SECURITY PROJECT PARTNER: Right. Lied about lying. Actually I'm just quoting Judge Napolitano there who came up with that what he turn a phrase. So, I think she's a viewer of your show, a fan of your show at least. In all seriousness, so...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: In defense of Hillary, that's a tough question. Have you ever lied? I mean, like, who could honestly say, no, never, in my whole life.
HANNAH: I mean, politicians could it because they're really...
KELLY: Because they do lie about lying.
HANNAH: ... good at lying. But he was being honest and trying to, you know, be thoroughly as possible...
KELLY: Now she lied. She lied about lying. But on the same they all do it.
HANNAH: Well, this is the thing. People, I mean, the majority of democrats think that she is honest and trustworthy. But then she has a credibility problem with some independent voters
KELLY: No, they don't. That's not true. The exit poll show that.
HANNAH: More than 50 -- yes. The majority of democrats think she's honest and trustworthy.
KELLY: The exit polls show that if you care about honest and trustworthy you go overwhelmingly for Bernie Sanders, like 70, 80 percent to her, you know, 30, 30 percent.
HANNAH: Sure. But I don't think you'll be surprised and your viewers won't be surprise to learn that majority of democrats find them both trustworthy. She has a credibility gap, no question. But then again, you know, think about politicians in general. It's not perceived as very selfless and, you know, profession of vocation.
So, yes, we are as the American people are skeptical about all candidates. Hillary is got a little bit more than most, but I think when you're looking at her competitor, when you look at the likely nominee in the Republican Party, at least people who maybe raise an eyebrow when they hear Hillary talk not hanging their heads in shame like when they hear like they do when they hear Donald Trump talk. There's...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I'm short on time.
HANNAH: Yes.
KELLY: But don't you worry about Trump turning out new voters?
HANNAH: No. I think he's going to alienates twice as many as he turns out for every new voter. You have seen these fights that are happening that you've showed on your show. Everybody watching that that's an independent that's a moderate is basically, you know, running away from Donald Trump when they watch that.
KELLY: Mark Hannah, thank you, sir.
HANNAH: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: We'll be right back.
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