This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 25, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."
All eyes are on Texas where the GOP candidates will face off in their 10th debate in a few hours from now. With 155 delegates, the Lone Star State will be the biggest prize of the primary season so far; a lot at stake with Super Tuesday, just five days away. Texas is the home state of Senator Cruz and the latest poll averages there show him ahead of Trump for now, but Trump doesn't appear to be concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People have not done very well against me. So far, everybody that attacked me has gone down.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN "AC 360" HOST: I want to move to Senator Cruz. On Monday, he seems to talk in his talk on illegal immigration.
TRUMP: He was very, very weak on illegal immigration. Now all of a sudden he's getting tough, and he is because he's getting very nervous. I mean, I watched him the other day. He's a nervous wreck. He didn't know this was going to happen to him and he's going down. And now he's actually in third place, he's not even in second place. So it looks like Rubio is taking over, reasonably solid in second place. And, you know, I'm in first place by quite a bit, but he has very much toughed in distance because he was losing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Could -- tonight could be do or die for Cruz and Rubio, but they told Megyn Kelly last night, that they're so confident that they can be the nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only campaign that can beat Donald and the only campaign that has beaten Donald is our campaign. And in my view, you know, you look nationally anywhere from 65 to 70 percent of republicans don't think Donald is the right candidate for us to nominate, to go up against Hillary Clinton.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The biggest change in this campaign is going to be when the people not named Donald Trump, the choices begin to narrow, and we start to give the republican voters a clearer choice of who they want to get behind it. I can win. I can unify this party, I can grow this party, and I will win this election.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: Charles Krauthammer has doubts, so ever. He warns that their campaigns are over if they don't change out their strategies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: If Cruz and Rubio continue what they're doing, they're going to lose. Cruz has to stop acting defensively, forget about the liar and the dirty tricks. He got distracted, ended up on the defensive waste of time. He needs to find an attack why. And I think it might also apply to Rubio. What possibly be work against to Trump? I think a kind of, you want to do a distraction, I think you kind of go after him on the tax returns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right. The 10th debate -- Gutfeld, are you ready?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I am -- this is going to be ugly. I think it's going to be the thunder dome without the steel cage. There is one positive thing here. We have a doctor on stage.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes.
GUTFELD: Because there is going to be blood, and I think that this will be the audition for surgeon general for Ben Carson, when he performs mouth to mouth or does the chest thing. Whatever you call that, I don't know. By the way, Marco Rubio --
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, with the (inaudible)?
GUTFELD: You know -- when it comes to me, don't.
PERINO: Don't worry.
GUTFELD: Anyway, when you look at Rubio --
GUTFELD: Yeah, none of you are gonna --
GUTFELD: We might catch something.
PERINO: No, we might --
GUTFELD: Does Rubio getting younger?
GUTFELD: It looks like he's running for student body president.
PERINO: You know, the fountain of youth was --
GUTFELD: You said --
PERINO: . said to be in Florida.
GUTFELD: If he's -- this race, he's gonna be in one direction.
GUTFELD: He is really looking good.
GUILFOYLE: It pays well.
PERINO: Kimberly, so the debate, what do you think is going to happen?
GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, you know, that lead-in from Greg, I think it's going to be pretty exciting because it's do or die time. It's on the line, you got to do it. So let's see what they can come up with but Trump is like crushing it, in Florida, his numbers are very good. You know, Rubio, right now, he seems to be leaving Rubio alone -- interesting. And Rubio seems to be leaving him alone. So somebody is going to have to go on the attack. We're hearing some, you know, messaging that perhaps Rubio's team is saying, let's go after Cruz tonight. So let's see what happens. And let's see who Ben Carson can save.
PERINO: Juan, Cruz -- Cruz has some decent numbers come out today, and a couple of polls showing him in his home -- I mean, his home state of Texas doing pretty well.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Right. So he is between one -- I think it's 1 to 15 percent ahead right now. The question is can he sustain it? He benefits in part from early voting people who already voted in the state of Texas, and because he is Ted Cruz, he's the Senator from Texas. But he's had a rough road over the last few days and last few weeks, and especially with all the firing of his communications director and charges of liar, liar, liar. Even last night, Donald Trump was tweeting and tweeting that Ted Cruz is a loser and a liar and why would you trust him. And don't forget -- I love this part where he said, "You know, not only was he born in Canada. He lived his first four years in Canada and he only recently changed his citizenship, so he's not -- he doesn't have Canadian Citizenship." Man, so I mean, it's personal. I think Greg is right, its thunder dome.
GUILFOYLE: That's true.
WILLIAMS: But I was say, if you're serious about it and you want to go with Donald Trump, then you got at really go at things like what Mitt Romney did. What about your taxes buddy? What don't you put --
PERINO: Yeah. We're gonna get to that in a few blog.
WILLIAMS: I know, I know, but also Vladimir Putin.
GUILFOYLE: Juan, like to (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Why not Vladimir? You don't love Vladimir Putin? Come on. Let's see how much you like Vladimir Putin. And if you're a republican and you like Paul Ryan -- hey, what's wrong with Paul Ryan's stand with regard to Medicare? Let's see it. Bring it on.
PERINO: But -- Eric, as we know, you know all the numbers. So if Texas is a big one, 155, but what are the rest of the numbers --
BOLLING: Proportion. Here's -- can I -- I'm going to push back a little bit. I'm going to take other side of a big raucous debate tonight. It's in Texas. This is Ted Cruz's home field advantage. If Donald Trump were smart, I would think he would say, I'm gonna not gonna get involved.
BOLLING: I have a lead in 12 of the 14 states that aren't -- Super Tuesday, 600 votes. I'm going to try and get out of it --
GUTFELD: You're going to try to (inaudible).
BOLLING: Right. And here -- this will be a good test of his demeanor, of his temperament. If he's smart, he'll say, "I'm not gonna bite. OK, you're right, whatever, I'll move on." Or he'll fight back. And that's where I think he may be beaten up a little bit, he may lose some ground. Right now, look, so the debate tonight, Super Tuesday, this coming Tuesday. There's nothing major in between the two of those --
PERINO: Expect for our show on Sunday night.
BOLLING: Ted Cruz -- thanks supporter. That Ted Cruz --
BOLLING: Ted Cruz has to win Texas. And he can't just win it. He has to win it well. Otherwise, literally, if there is no path. The other thing is Marco Rubio, tonight. So what will he gonna do? Is he -- is he thing gonna after Cruz? It doesn't make sense to go after for second place -- that's insane. Go after Trump, because you have to win Florida. He's down by -- I think the latest was 17 points --
GUTFELD: I'll let you want second place.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, unless this is what's happening.
BOLLING: Well, you know, the other logical explanation is Cruz and Rubio are young enough that they want to run another time, after.
BOLLING: Or just staying in the game as long as they can to get the spotlight.
GUILFOYLE: Choose as VP, want of Trump for four years.
PERINO: But you know -- you know who's going to be an audience tonight?
PERINO: Anybody know else --
GUTFELD: Well, if Telemundo -- so this is going to be a Spanish soap opera, because they're going to come after Trump about the wall, aren't they?
PERINO: . bueno.
GUTFELD: Very good.
PERINO: That's exactly what I was thinking of. Do you know who is going, anybody?
GUTFELD: George's family?
PERINO: George H.W. Bush and Mrs. Barbara Bush are going to be in the audience; Houston being their hometown. Let's take a look at the Governor Kasich who was on the Kelly File last night in that special candidate forum that she hosted, and give a little pushback to make.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, "THE KELLY FILE" HOST: I'm just raising a concern that a lot of republicans have, because they see you, even though they like you, struggling to get above the bottom (inaudible) in this election except for New Hampshire which is the state you --
GOV. JOHN KASICH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on, hold -- yeah.
KELLY: Which is the state you saturated with. And their question --
KASICH: Well, Megyn.
KELLY: Whether you are stealing votes.
KASICH: Look, let me, let me --
KELLY: . from candidates who could actually win?
KASICH: Well, first of all, I'm not sure who those people are, OK?
We're holding our own. We intend to keep going, Megyn. We're not stopping and I'm not giving up. That is the end of it. I'm certainly not listening to a bunch of people, insiders in Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So he's like the outsider/insider in outside/inside.
GUILFOYLE: Inside out.
GUTFELD: A little bit of balls -- I guess. Did you ever notice when everybody ask him a question, he always comes back -- no, that's not the case, and then he goes off --
PERINO: And then he answers.
GUTFELD: Then he answers. That's it.
PERINO: Juan -- yeah, I could tell. You really mean a lot to say.
GUILFOYLE: And his people are saying that they're very tired of everybody saying, you get out. They issued a statement today, "Hey, Marco Rubio, how about you get out and step aside, so you're not the blocker because we actually have a path, because we can carry later states and have Ohio."
PERINO: Yeah, I don't like (inaudible) about talk.
GUILFOYLE: I feel like stay in if you want to stay in. If he got money, and infrastructure, and support, do what you want to do, up until a certain point. But does it have to be today? Maybe do this debate, there's Super Tuesday, and then that's that.
PERINO: What do you think Eric?
BOLLING: Here's what I think. I think John Kasich is optimistic, although if he were realistic, he would step aside because whatever -- if he does win Ohio -- right now, I think the latest has him either neck in neck] or maybe drop behind a little Trump in Ohio. But if he does win Ohio, he gets the 66 Ohio votes that a Rubio or a Cruz would need to compete with Donald Trump. You need him. It is a winner take all state. Also, and if he drop -- if he wins it and then drops out after, those votes don't go to go someone else. Those votes stay in his column until the convention. So feasibly, Donald Trump or someone else could go ahead and become the nominee, and that those 66 votes could have made a difference. So -- by the way, he is polling behind everyone in a lot of the states coming up.
PERINO: Juan, can I show a little clip of one of your friends? This is Dr. Ben Carson from last night.
GUTFELD: Oh, how appropriate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: All right, so let me start with this -- really? Just beginning?
DR. BEN CARSON, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely, you know, 5 percent of the delegates have been selected already. We've got a long way to go. It is like a baseball game. And everybody wants to call the game after the first inning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: OK, Juan. So we talked about this the other night on special election coverage when he came in second to last in Nevada. He has come in about that in every other contest, but he vows to go on and he says this is just the beginning. What does he mean by that?
WILLIAMS: He means that he feels that he's, you know, that -- I don't know, he is on a mission and it is religious. There is some deviltry (ph), to be quite frank. And that he believes that much as he did amazing surgery, that, you know, incredible things will happen. And his point, if you take him -- let's just take him seriously, flat out what he is saying. He thinks that there is a lot of opportunity for things to explode. So it could be at the debate tonight. It could be that somebody gets sidetracked. It could be that people learn some new information. We were talking earlier -- let's say at tonight's debate, they take Trump seriously and start asking about giving visas to, you know, people at Mar-A-Lago; his state in Florida. And he says, "I don't know about Trump and immigration. Maybe it wasn't real." I don't know. That's what Carson is saying.
GUTFELD: But that's a terrible strategy to just sit back and wait. And in these debates, he always kind of like -- he does the thing like you forgot that that I'm here. But it is up to him to make himself memorable. Why is it that -- this idea, like it just started. Well, then, you should start a fire to quote Billy Joel.
WILLIAMS: You know he doesn't --
WILLIAMS: I mean his thinking is really interesting. On this case he's thinking is trust in God. And trust in other people coming to you and that this mystery, this miracle will occur.
BOLLING: OK -- last thought -- first inning of a baseball game? No. We're not. We're like to coming to bond --
PERINO: Is it the seventh inning stretch?
BOLLING: Or later, Dana.
GUILFOYLE: Sign of shut up for Carson.
BOLLING: Maybe in that -- maybe because he hasn't really done much politicking before. But the -- he is very quickly upon, it's -- I think it is light out already. But don't forget, Cruz and Rubio also beat the crap out of each other first, before they realized we'd better go after Trump.
PERINO: Do I get credit for knowing what a seventh inning stretch was?
BOLLING: That was good -- great.
GUILFOYLE: You get a lot of credit, actually.
GUTFELD: But in yoga.
PERINO: Come on, come on.
GUTFELD: Yoga terminology.
PERINO: All right. Coming up, Trump hits back at Mitt Romney after the 2012 GOP nominee suggested there could be a bombshell hidden in the 2016 hopefuls, unreleased tax returns -- we've got that controversy next.
GUILFOYLE: 2012 GOP nominee, Mitt Romney has yet to endorse a candidate. If he does, it doesn't sound like it will be Donald Trump. Romney is holding Trump's his feet to the fire for not releasing his tax returns yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: I think we have good reason to believe that there is a bombshell in Donald Trump's taxes.
NEIL CAVUTO, "YOUR WORLD" HOST: What do you mean?
ROMNEY: Well, I think there is something there. Either he is not anywhere near as wealthy as he says he is, or he hasn't been paying the kind of taxes we would expect him to pay, or perhaps he hasn't been giving money to the vets or the disabled like he's been telling us he's been doing. And I think that's the reason that I think there's a bombshell in there, is because every time he is asked about his taxes, he dodges and delays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Well, Trump doesn't seem to feel pressured by Romney's provocation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nobody has been bringing it up except to Mitt Romney, and the reason he brings it up is that he lost in the last election and lost very badly. I get audited every single year. But we'll make determination over the next couple of months. It is very complicated.
COOPER: But point blank, does that mean you absolutely will release them, and it was just a question of when?
TRUMP: No. I'll make a determination. I will be making that determined over -- over the next. I would say, couple of months, we'll make that determination -- absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: His opponents all say they have no problem releasing theirs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Absolutely. I'll release the remainder of what we have this week. I've released already, I think five years worth.
RUBIO: I'll release them. They're not very complicated. I -- they're just not very exotic.
KASICH: That is not gonna be an issue for me. We'll be very glad to release tax returns, and I don't know, we'll figure out what the right years are, but we don't have anything to hide there.
CARSON: I'll release them for however many years will satisfy people. We got nothing to hide. Not a problem. The one thing I can guarantee people about me, there are no scandals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Ah, but it is a great show.
All right, so what do we make of the money situation? Bolling, this is your chance to talk math.
BOLLING: So if people really want to see it, go ahead. I have no doubt no matter what he does end up release -- everybody, OK. Well, so he did -- whatever. It wasn't 28 percent tax you paid, 8 percent tax. Or you didn't, you know, give this amount of money to that group or there. I don't think it's gonna be (inaudible). Donald Trump has done things that are probably far worse than anything. You'll find his taxes that people perceived and go up, OK, but then it goes away. It's just -- I still don't know why Mitt Romney is doing. I just -- it just doesn't make sense to me. He was so mad when Harry Reid did to some of the democrats are doing to him. And frankly, Mitt said that he released his tax returns in January. Well, he released one year tax returns, and it wasn't a full return. He released his full year -- the relevant years of tax returns of September of 2012, when after he was already the nominee. Look, if you want to see it, check him out. Go see it, by all means, (inaudible). Just feels like this is a democrat tactic.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
GUTFELD: Wait, wait --
WILLIAMS: . republicans.
GUTFELD: Found this to Mitt, though, right?
GUTFELD: Didn't he say it was a good idea in 2012? I -- to Trump's defense, we know rich people's tax returns are very weird. Rubio did the short form at H&R block.
GUTFELD: OK. So it is quite different. But he did -- I think did he mention to Romney in 2012, how is this any different than asking about somebody's citizenship? It is the same thing. It's just screwing around with people, correct?
GUTFELD: That's what they --
PERINO: Well --
GUTFELD: That's what everybody is doing; they're just screwing around with each other.
GUILFOYLE: Dana, say and tell us why it is relevant.
PERINO: Well, it's just -- I don't know what the law says but, let's say that you are going to be nominated to the Supreme Court. In order to get that nomination, one of the things that you have to turnover and the press gets a chance to look at are your tax returns. And I can't remember if it is 5 or 10 years, or something like that. But in order to be a public servant of which, the president of the United States is the servant to the people of the United States, that tax returns is something like it's a common thing to do. I agree with you, the taxes are complicated for people like --
GUTFELD: For people like you.
PERINO: Yeah, right. And I also agree that it seems a little odd and it seems a little late. But I do think there was a ton of pressure from the other republican candidates on Mitt Romney to release his tax returns. And just remember, Mitt Romney was painted as the rich guy who doesn't pay enough taxes, who, although he gave about 40 percent of his income to charity, with the rich guy who didn't care about people like you -- poor people. So, it will be relevant in a general election for sure.
WILLIAMS: No, but it's relevant right now.
GUILFOYLE: What about discrimination, Juan?
WILLIAMS: Well, hang on. Let me, let me --
PERINO: Well that's what -- that's why --
GUILFOYLE: Against rich people.
PERINO: That's why Romney is making the point.
GUILFOYLE: And 1 percenters (ph).
GUILFOYLE: Nobody ever ask if he like to --
GUILFOYLE: It's so, it's so rude. It's like you know what, you're rich. You got money, show me your, show me your money. Show me your pocket. Show me your tax returns.
WILLIAMS: No. They are asking Rubio.
GUILFOYLE: It's true.
WILLIAMS: Rubio is not a rich guy. They're asking Rubio too. They want everybody.
GUILFOYLE: And no money.
WILLIAMS: Well, OK. But let me just say --
PERINO: And also like, how do you ask for Hillary Clinton --
WILLIAMS: I think your point --
PERINO: Rich (ph) transfer.
WILLIAMS: I think your point is on target here. Remember, Romney, when he released it, it turned out he paid 14 percent. But wait a second. You're paying less than the secretary in the Warren Buffett thing. And so, if the case that Donald Trump is paying less, as Eric suggest, and he says he's the rich American, he gonna make America great again. Make America rich again, negotiate with all of our trade partners, and it will look like yeah, you've been ripping off the system Donald Trump.
BOLLING: I didn't -- I have no idea --
GUILFOYLE: No, maybe like he's gonna show how to do properly (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. But you were saying, here's what --
BOLLING: If it does come out.
BOLLING: . that he is paying less than the average American.
WILLIAMS: But I think --
BOLLING: I don't think it is gonna be that (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: I think it could have some impact. And remember what Cruz said.
WILLIAMS: Cruz said, the media is going right, right now on Donald Trump. They're setting Donald Trump out to be the nominee. This -- I'm sorry?
PERINO: I said, absolutely. I'm agreeing with you. They're going to come after him for, on these very points.
WILLIAMS: right. So --
GUTFELD: You've got to prepare.
WILLIAMS: So this is --
GUTFELD: . the nominee.
GUTFELD: You got to prepare for it. Because this is going to come up no matter what.
WILLIAMS: And he is the rich guy, right?
WILLIAMS: So his taxes are relevant.
BOLLING: Which years are relevant?
WILLIAMS: I would say his last 5 to 10 years, just like Dana said. But I'd say --
PERINO: Well, I've been saying that I don't know -- that's what like Supreme Court nominee is (inaudible).
GUILFOYLE: Did you hear what you just said?
PERINO: And I think I would.
GUILFOYLE: I mean he's like, he's rich guy, so therefore his taxes are relevant.
WILLIAMS: Well, it's not --
GUILFOYLE: On my point is the standards should apply the same to everybody.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no.
GUILFOYLE: . rich or poor.
WILLIAMS: He -- but Kimberly.
WILLIAMS: . he runs as I'm rich, I'm successful and that's why you should vote for me.
GUTFELD: I want to see Bernie Sanders's tax returns.
GUTFELD: Do you think he files?
GUILFOYLE: Well, this is not gonna be anything to see --
GUILFOYLE: Up until he was, 40 years of age? He didn't have a job.
GUILFOYLE: He didn't have a job.
OK, ahead. Apple's CEO, gives his first TV interview since a judge order his company to help the FBI unlock a dead terrorist phone. While Tim Cook argues doing so would be bad for America; our take on that, next.
GUTFELD: As the head of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, openly worries about another terrorist attack on our turf, Apple CEO Tim Cook tells ABC News that unlocking the iPhone used by a San Bernardino terrorist would be quote, "bad for America." He says overriding security would make it easier for criminals to do the same thing, a concern that doesn't keep banks or hospitals from having a way to access your records.
But here's another way to look at it: World War II. Back then, car companies converted their businesses to making planes and tanks. Sure, FDR made him do it, but they got on board. People collected tin cans and pots and pans to mash them into war material, everyone pitched in. Kate Smith's radio broadcast raised millions for the war. Wrigley's gum started a women's baseball league since so many males were at war.
Do you think there was a lot of hand-wringing over whether to support a country at war? Unlikely. My guess is there was no self-righteous posturing. They did the right the thing. And yes, those were different times. But this is a different time too. The battlefield is here. The enemy suicidal. The Kamikazes walk among us and wish not simply to kill, but to end our world.
Cook's stance, to me, seems very small. But I'm sure his Silicon Valley pals are patting him on the back. But what if that phone contained info on the impeding deaths of their loved ones? I'll bet, what's bad for America, suddenly doesn't matter.
So Eric, is it posturing because he doesn't want to be a pariah among Silicon Valley?
BOLLING: No, I think he honestly, (inaudible) believes that the encryption is such an important aspect of his phone that a lot of his company's businesses are based on that. I would tell you -- there is always testimony that goes on during -- on Capitol Hill on this, and you watch the Apple stock. And it literally moves based on what the latest testimony is. If he would to break the encryption -- I bet you 10, 15 percent of that stock goes south, and you're talking about tens and billions of dollars.
BOLLING: I -- no one wants to be on the front end of that. But again, can I offer a solution? Again, Apple hasn't come out with another version. We've been -- iPhone 6 for a really long time.
BOLLING: Remember it was like, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 went fast and even 6 came fast and there's a 6s and it make your next generation different. Make the encryption different. Break this one and move on. You'll sell even more iPhone.
GUILFOYLE: That's what they're going to do. So this is just like big cry baby tears in Silicon Valley, blowing over all this like Katrina. I mean, come on. Grow up. Keep this country safe. I'm so tired of this. This is all about them trying to posture -- great, all the terrorists love you, Apple, winning.
BOLLING: Can I throw one other thing? If you talk to people in Cato --
BOLLING: Cato ones. That they will tell you the biggest problem they have is when government tells private business what to do. And they want government to stay out of private business. So there's your line in the sand.
GUTFELD: But then you have liberals that's love it when government tells businesses what to do. And then they changed their mind when it comes to this. Dana, there was an analogy that Sam Harris has used, which I thought was really interesting. He said like, "What if I killed a dozen people, but in your house was a room filled with evidence?" That's what an iPhone is.
So if the police can get a warrant to get into that tiny room, this phone is essentially a tiny room, filled with evidence.
PERINO: The other thing that in that same podcast that you sent to me -- Sam Harris, it's a really good one, check it out -- they were talking about victims who have been murdered, and they were texting right before they got murdered. And you're not allowed -- law enforcement can't get into the phone to see what was happening on the text before the murder.
So imagine you're law enforcement and you're the FBI and you're looking at the San Bernardino families, and you've having to explain: "Well, it's just that there's this encryption thing and we can't get in." And that seems very unsatisfying to law enforcement.
GUTFELD: Yes. Juan, my point, I used some examples...
PERINO: And for justice.
GUTFELD: ... from a book by Barry Lassiter (ph) on war efforts by businesses during World War II.
Isn't it similar? Shouldn't Tim Cook look at this and go, "Look, this is about America. We should be doing something. We should be doing our part to prevent terror"?
WILLIAMS: Well, no, because as you pointed out. FDR forced the car companies...
WILLIAMS: ... to go over and use some of the steel.
GUTFELD: But the FBI, he should oblige the FBI. Right?
WILLIAMS: I think so. But you know, I'm listening to this very carefully. Because I think the difference, to be frank, is that it's a conflict between your liberty in terms of your privacy rights, constitutional rights, and the national security.
WILLIAMS: Now, the whole national security apparatus, you pointed out Jeh Johnson. But it's also Jim Comey at the FBI. It's Loretta Lynch at Justice. It's John Brennan at CIA. They all agree. And they've got a judge on their side with a subpoena, you know, saying, "Give it up, give it up."
GUILFOYLE: With a court order. And they can be held in contempt. Jail them.
WILLIAMS: So -- right, but you get Cato, as Eric was saying. You know, libertarian. Conservative libertarians. And you get other people who are concerned about the idea that this is a slippery slope. And that's the argument Tim Cook's putting forward. Ted Olson, your pal, also a lawyer. That -- and Ted Olson is somebody who lost his wife in 9/11. So it's not like I'm, you know, indifferent to the problems of people.
But the key here from their perspective is, oh, so if you say government can have a key, a back door, I think Cook used the example, so it's going to tell us to turn on Dana's key (ph) on her iPhone at some point, because we want to see what Dana is up to.
PERINO: Dog pictures.
GUTFELD: Yes. It's not going to be all or nothing. I mean, people have common sense. They're going to go, like, "We need this."
GUTFELD: To prevent death.
BOLLING: Can I just throw one more thing. So New York City police commissioner said, "And by the way, if you do break that encryption, we have a lot of..."
GUTFELD: Yes, outstanding.
BOLLING: "... crimes here that we'd like to do..."
WILLIAMS: We have a slippery slope. A slippery slope.
BOLLING: Where do you stop? Where do you draw the line? Is it murder? Is it rape? Is it domestic violence or robbery?
GUILFOYLE: Let's just -- let's start with ISIS.
GUTFELD: Yes, but you know what, Kimberly? You know what it is? Again, if you use the metaphor if a killer has a box in his house filled with evidence, the police get a warrant and go in. This is a box filled with evidence.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I got it. I want into the box.
GUTFELD: I would assume you would agree with me.
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. You can count on me.
GUTFELD: I only go to the people who agree with me.
GUILFOYLE: There you go. You're such a closer.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no, that's dangerous (ph) to me. Oh, no.
GUTFELD: Juan, we agree at least 20 percent of the time.
WILLIAMS: That's true. But you know, I was just making a point.
GUILFOYLE: Hit it, Greg.
GUTFELD: All right. Sorry. Still to come, on Saturday, Democrats head to the polls in South Carolina. Will black voters help push Hillary Clinton closer to the nomination? That's next.
WILLIAMS: The Democratic primary in South Carolina is two days away, and the candidates know turnout from black voters there, it will be crucial to the Clinton nomination. Fifty-three delegates are at stake.
Hillary Clinton faced some resistance yesterday at a private fundraiser from Black Lives Matter activists. They wanted her to apologize for inconsistencies in her record on racial issues.
So what they said was, "You know, back in the that '90s, you were for things like" -- and this was when Hillary Clinton was associated with the Children's Defense Fund -- "labeling some kids as super predators who needed to be taken to heal." And this woman stands up in the audience. I think you can see her in the video. She stands up -- no, it's to the left. And she has a sign condemning Hillary, holding up Hillary statements from the '90s. What do you make of this, Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: Come on. I mean, you know, it's just what is the point? Really? Really? You want to take her out? Who's going to help you then? Like, what are you doing? I don't quite get it. I get maybe now they like Sanders and socialism.
But by the way, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton have been more supportive in the African-American community and have a record of that than Bernie Sanders, who was like, bear hugging Venezuela.
WILLIAMS: Well, this is the second time, Eric, that she's been interrupted by Black Lives Matter activists.
BOLLING: Black Lives Matter are right. The problem is, they used that super predator comment, which she basically said the gangs. Remember, gang violence in the '80s and '90s was prevalent. And she said, "Well, there are these -- there's a super predator growing and emerging that's becoming a big problem." She used that. And that encompassed not just black gangs. It was Asian gangs and Hispanic gangs. It was white gangs, whoever.
So using that term was a mistake, but they are right. Hillary Clinton not only was there when Bill Clinton put forth the 1994 crime bill...
BOLLING: ... she stumped for it. She was on talk shows. She would go out into cities and talk about why the crime bill was so important to bring the level of crime down.
That '94 crime bill didn't bring crime down. There were a lot of issues that likely brought crime down. Economic issues, more handguns, whatever; for whatever reason. But she can't say, "I didn't have anything to do with." That really ticks off the African-American community.
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think that she said she has nothing to do with it. But Dana, the point that Eric is making is totally legit. Higher rates of incarceration tied to that crime bill.
PERINO: Yes. But look, somebody that is a protester, a college student that comes to yell at you doesn't have a lot of patience for to you explain to them, "Let me take you back to what it was like in the 1990s when families were coming to us, saying -- pleading with us..."
GUTFELD: Black families.
PERINO: "... to do something." Yes, black families.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Congressional Black Caucus almost all supported that crime bill.
PERINO: That was my point, but Greg made it well.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I appreciate what you're saying. I just wanted to amplify.
PERINO: They don't have a lot of time when you're, especially you're on camera. You're running for president. So everything you do is being scrutinized, and you don't have time to say, "Let me go back and tell you all..."
WILLIAMS: You know, I suggest, like you hear Dana talk about this, but let's give Hillary a chance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I said that was a poor choice of words. And never used it before. Never used it since. And looking back, I should not have used those words. I certainly wouldn't use them today.
But you know, I think what's important is my life's work. It's been about lifting up children and young people who have been let down by the system and by society and never got the chance they deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So that was Hillary Clinton on MSNBC, doing a telephone interview. The video you saw was that young woman holding -- Ashley Williams holding up the sign in front of Clinton at last night's fund- raiser.
Now Greg, it is having some impact on the campaign. As you know, Hillary Clinton right now among black voters, I think, is like 68-21. Huge lead over Sanders. But among black people under 45, I think people are much more sympathetic to Black Lives Matter. She's only 52-35.
GUTFELD: But Hillary's problem isn't BLM. She has IBS.
WILLIAMS: What is that?
GUILFOYLE: So do you!
GUTFELD: It's Irritable Bernie Sanders.
GUILFOYLE: You didn't see that one coming?
GUTFELD: Wherever she goes -- wherever she goes, Bernie is right there behind her, pushing her leftward. And black activists would be less of a challenge to her if Bernie wasn't making a more persuasive case to -- to them than she is. So that's -- that is the problem.
Another point is now she's in full green. She is going through every condiment. She was -- remember, she was mustard and then she was ketchup. Now she's relish.
WILLIAMS: Wow! Tasty.
GUILFOYLE: She would be delicious at a picnic.
WILLIAMS: All right. Stay tuned, because it's "The Fastest Seven" up next.
BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Fastest 7
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: ... "The Fastest" -- you know, about seven minutes in television. Three extraordinary stories, seven expeditious minutes, one expedient host.
First up, Democratic Senator Al Franken poked fun at himself while reading mean tweets about his support for Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AL FRANKEN, D-MINN.: @RTElmore, "Booooo!"
OK, well, boooooo to you, too.
@ByYourLogic, "Mad TV sucked."
OK. I'm going to say it's a joke. I wasn't on Mad TV. I was a pretty well-known comedian on "SNL." Good joke.
March 1, I hope you'll get out and caucus for Hillary and keep the -- keep the tweets coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: From experience, reading your own mean tweets, that's a great ad.
PERINO: I could top that. Believe me. He wasn't even very funny.
BOLLING: He wasn't very funny.
PERINO: It's a good concept. I kind of like it. I think people would like to watch on it their phone. But I don't think that was very funny.
GUTFELD: It's also not a new concept. A lot of people do this. Now, and also, remember, what his most popular book was: "Rush Limbaugh is a Big, Fat Idiot and Other Observations." So he was way ahead of Twitter in kind of infantile cruelty.
BOLLING: K.G., what's it like not having any mean tweets sent to you?
GUILFOYLE: Well, since I can't see without my glasses, I can only see the ones with, like, or...
PERINO: All caps.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, all caps. Everybody gets them. It doesn't bother me. It really doesn't.
BOLLING: Does it bother you, Juan?
GUTFELD: Well, you get...
WILLIAMS: Well, I'm the only one around here who is, like, so old. I don't even bother anymore with social media.
GUILFOYLE: I get a lot of tweets about you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: You guys take it so seriously. I think it would hurt your feelings.
BOLLING: No, I'm over. But the way, never blocked more people than I have in the last week of my entire life.
It's a girl by choice. Celeb couple Chrissy Teigen and John Legend have revealed their decision to have a science baby and, of course, haters going to hate. Teigen coming under fire after telling "People" magazine, she picked the sex of her baby while going through fertility treatments, saying, quote, "Not only am I having a girl, but I picked the girl from her little embryo. And I picked her and was like, let's put in the girl."
After the article was published, Teigen received a bunch of hateful tweets in return. Teigen not being one to ever back down from critics, then tweeted, quote, "Stop looking here for stuff to be mad at. There are so many other things that deserve your outrage."
K.G., where are you on this debate, picking the gender?
GUILFOYLE: You know, I mean, I don't know enough about the specifics of that situation. So I think what they did was there are facilities in places that, if you go to do in vitro, they fertilize. You've got the where they can spin it and said to be to produce certain -- you know, to gender select.
I mean, that's the way science is going. I think that's personal choice. You know, for them to make -- the whole focus is, you really don't care. When you have a healthy baby, that's all that matters.
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, when you think about the way that the Chinese, for example, prefer boys. And you start to think, what's next? You going to start picking out eye colors?"
PERINO: They're already doing it.
WILLIAMS: I don't know.
GUILFOYLE: Juan, that's happening already.
WILLIAMS: I know. It worries me. I don't like it. I don't think it's good for America. I don't think it's good for the world. What do you think?
PERINO: I think that it's not this particular situation, but this issue is one of the biggest of our generation. And do you know who I would love to have a sit down with Charles Krauthammer who was on the bioethics committee at the White House years ago and maybe a few other scientists. And listen to them. Moralists and ethicists about the bigger issue. Because what you're talking about, Juan, as I understand it, all of that is already happening, especially overseas, and we might not be able to stop it.
GUTFELD: Yes, I agree. What if you decide you don't want a gay child? What if you can find a way to eliminate the possibility of that? How will people feel about that? Left-handedness? You don't want to have a red head. What we're going to be left with is a bunch of really boring people who look like David Duke.
BOLLING: But what they're saying is they're trying to get to the point genetically where they can pick out a healthy child versus a non-healthy child.
PERINO: I mean, but if you start taking stuff out of the gene pool, you are messing with nature. And you don't know what the long-term consequences are.
GUTFELD: I want a half boy, half dog.
PERINO: You want Jasper.
BOLLING: Finally, Adele, at the Brit Awards in London last night. Unlike the Grammys, she did not suffer a microphone malfunction this time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: I have no idea if I'm supposed to say goodbye.
PERINO: She's beautiful. Beautiful and talented. I love listening to her.
GUILFOYLE: Is there anybody who doesn't like Adele?
GUTFELD: No, I said I liked it, but I never heard one of her songs by choice. I always hear it somewhere else, but I've never actually said I'm going to listen to an Adele song. Though she has a very beautiful voice.
BOLLING: A resonating voice. That resonates. Got such a resonating voice, something that rolls around.
WILLIAMS: Unlike what happened here, there was no microphone malfunction. And then the sound started. And I thought why is it so faint? It sounds like -- but I guess it's her voice. She sounds like she's singing in a cathedral. Right?
PERINO: We'll get back to you.
GUILFOYLE: Audio department.
BOLLING: "One More Thing" up next.
PERINO: It's time for "One More Thing." And you have no idea what that commercial break was just like. So we are going to try to pull it together here.
And Greg, you get to...
GUTFELD: We were talking about digital rectal exams.
PERINO: Oh, my gosh.
GUTFELD: All right. Time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I hate these people!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: All right. Do you know who I hate? I hate drug stores. I hate Walgreens. I hate Rite Aid. I hate CVS. I hate Duane Reed. And you know why? Because they're turning into supermarkets that are selling sushi and bacon.
Last night I went to my local pharmacy to get some toilet paper. I left with a pint of Telete (ph) pistachio gelato, which I proceeded to eat in front of the TV in five minutes. I was covered in sticky film. I felt horrible about myself. And I blame you. If pharmacies did not sell food, I would have just taken home some toilet paper, and everything would have been fine. But no, I ate a tub of ice cream, and I feel horrible about it.
GUILFOYLE: You must live in a fancy place where they have gelato.
GUTFELD: It's in every drugstore now. You know what I'm talking about.
GUILFOYLE: I like it. Yes, yes, yes.
GUTFELD: I bring a spoon. I shove it down my throat.
GUILFOYLE: They carry salami and pepperoni there, too. So I'm all...
PERINO: Why are you complaining about bacon...
PERINO: ... being sold there?
Juan, you're next.
WILLIAMS: All right. So Vice President Joe Biden is going to make a star turn at the Oscars on Sunday. He'll be introducing pop star Lady Gaga. Biden, who drafted the Violence Against Women Act when he was a senator, will introduce Lady Gaga's performance of "Till It Happens to You." It's a nominee for best original song. It was featured in the documentary "The Hunting Ground," which deals with campus rape.
So Biden will use the opportunity to promote the White House's anti-sexual assault program called It's On Us." And it will put Joe Biden and Dr. Jill Biden on stage at the Oscars.
GUTFELD: Where he will declare his presidency.
PERINO: Oh, my gosh.
PERINO: That would be -- don't miss it. Make sure you watch us first. We're on Sunday, live.
OK. Quickly, Juan, your favorite childhood book?
WILLIAMS: "The Chosen."
GUTFELD: Agatha Christie books.
PERINO: OK. Bolling.
BOLLING: "Spider and the Fly."
PERINO: And Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: "Giving Tree."
PERINO: And I went with -- I had so many. My mom said my favorite one was "Three Kittens Lost Their Mittens," but I chose "The Bar (ph)."
GUILFOYLE: Traitor (ph), traitor (ph).
PERINO: Why am I asking?
GUTFELD: It's about a strip club.
PERINO: Why am I asking you this?
GUTFELD: Well, I don't know.
PERINO: Because children reading is so important. And the Barbara Bush Foundation's Center for Literacy, they do amazing work. And you can show, if you don't read as a kid, then your life is going to be much more different. So this was really cool.
Michelle Obama and the White House officially announced this new app yesterday. It is called open e-book. And basically, it allows for all of these educators from -- I won't list them all, but 66,000 Title One schools and on down to get access to thousands of children's books that you can download to your phone or to you tablet that you can pass around so everybody in the family, but especially for kids this is great. Here's Michelle Obama talking about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Do you remember a book that you loved as a child? For so many of us, books opened our minds to a world of possibility. Right now, millions of children in America don't that have chance.
The new open e-books app will help change that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And the great news is some special education teachers in the country, no matter what kind of school they work for can have access to this. So OpenEbooks.net, and you can learn some more.
GUILFOYLE: Very nice.
GUILFOYLE: So true. All righty. Now let's talk about the Second Amendment and guns, shall we?
Well, a local business owner with several offices in Georgia is now providing weapons for his employees and having -- requiring all his employees to get a conceal and carry license and be armed. His name is Lance Tolen (ph). And he's getting them revolvers. There was a deadly break-in close by and most of his employees are women. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These girls jumped at the opportunity on protect themselves and take it into their own hands. Again, you can't rely on the police to be there. They're going to be there eventually, but not going to be there when the perpetrator comes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Protecting women. I love it.
PERINO: All right. Eric Bolling.
BOLLING: All right. Do me a favor. Stay on Fox News all night. A big night. A lot going on. At 8 p.m., I'm going to be hosting for O'Reilly. Check this out. Pat Buchanan, the father of the anti-establishment movement. Dana Perino will be there. Austan Goolsbee, a big 8 p.m. show. Then at midnight, I'm coming back for a live show at midnight. Ben Carson and John Kasich are in. Donald Trump said he likely will be in, as well. Some big stuff post-debate.
PERINO: All right. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. Hope to see you tonight. "Special Report" is next.
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