Gutfeld: 'Bad boy' Trump vs. 'safe date' Rubio
Which candidate will conservatives take to the prom?
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 22, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News alert. Ted Cruz axed his national spokesman after he posted a link to a video that falsely depicted Marco Rubio trashing the bible. Communications Director Rick Tyler is out. You're going to hear from Cruz in a moment about that.
But first, as the Republican candidates head to Nevada, two are making their case as the alternative to Donald Trump, who's built a big orange head of steam. Cruz says he's the one, because he's more conservative:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is now only one strong conservative remaining in this race who can win. And what we are seeing, our game plan from day one was, do well in the first four states and consolidate conservatives to go forward into Super Tuesday. I think we're positioned, ideally, to do exactly that.
You cannot beat Trump coming from the left. You cannot beat Trump with a candidate who supports amnesty -- it doesn't work. If you come at the left to Trump, you will lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: But Ted, Trump beat you with the evangelicals. Those are your people. That's like Dana losing the dog vote. Meanwhile, Rubio is gently telling his foes: Last calls over, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that the sooner we can coalesce, the better we're going to be as a party in general. I mean, and so, certainly, but I'm not here to tell him to do whatever he needs to do. It's going to happened one way or another. There's a natural process, that's going to take hold. I think the question is the timing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: He is right. It started with 17 people, many doing it for their bucket list. No wonder Trump's ahead. He stood out like a sore tan thumb. And what of Trump anyway? One camp sees him as a golden god on the road to greatness. The second sees the road to Armageddon, a scary spectacle of sentiment over substance. But they're both wrong. It's not awesome or awful, it's just unknown. And there's the rub. Conservatives, as a rule, prefer the known, hence "conservative."
Trump's the bad boy on the bike, it's a fun ride on the back, but you could crack your head open. By comparison, Rubio's the safe date to get you home by 10 o'clock. But like all bad boys, Trump attracts people into his circle because it beats being a loser. But maybe it's time he ditched the mystery for specifics. The only reason not to, is if he's got none. That's the problem with bad boys: They get by on being bad. But can that win the general election? Trump wins big with people for "telling it like it is." But Rubio wins on "electability."
As you fret over Hillary or Bernie, it pays to ask, which one matters most?
All right, let's get to this, Rick Tyler stuff. He said around a false story about Rubio, making fun of the bible, when in fact, he had actually, was complimenting the bible to -- with was it Rick -- was it that Cruz' father. So now, Cruz is apologizing and asking for his resignation. Here it -- is Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: I spent this morning investigating what happens. And this morning, I ask for Rick Tyler's resignation. None of you have heard me throw the kind of insults at Marco Rubio that he throws at me every single day. If other candidates choose to go into the gutter, we will not do the same. Rick Tyler is a good man. This was a grave error of judgment. It turned out the news story he sent around was false. But I'll tell you, even if it was true, we are not a campaign that is going to question the faith of another candidate. Even if it was true, our campaign should not have sent it. That's why I've asked for Rick Tyler's resignation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: And here is the Rubio's camp comment on this, it says, "Rick is a really good spokesman who had the unenviable task of working for a candidate, willing to do or say anything to get elected. There is a culture in the Cruz campaign, from top to bottom, that no lie is too big and no trick too dirty. Rick did the right thing by apologizing to Marco. It's high time for Ted Cruz to do the right thing and stop the lies." All right, so Dana, with the firing and over reaction, or is this about something else?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think it is -- it was a symptom of a bigger disease, and Cruz was trying to deal with the disease. He didn't have an antidote.
GUTFELD: Ah.
PERINO: I'm going to keep -- try to go with that metaphor --
GUTFELD: That metaphor is a life support.
PERINO: So the --
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: Ever since -- Iowa.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Give it mouth to mouth.
PERINO: And maybe even a little bit before Iowa. But you really started to notice in Iowa when Dr. Carson said, "Wait a minute, this dirty trick that Cruz's team played on me cost me votes." And then Trump took up Carson's cause and then there were others, sort of dirty tricks in New Hampshire. So what happened was you had a story line and a reputation that was building around the Cruz campaign. So if you had -- if Cruz hadn't fired anybody up to now, I think what the symbolic reason for firing Rick Tyler, it wasn't just that one egregious thing that they did. It was that he needed a way to try to change the narrative.
GUTFELD: Got you. Speaking of Trump, Eric, this is what he tweeted regarding this, he tweeted, "Wow, Ted Cruz falsely suggested Marco Rubio mocked the Bible and was just forced to fire his Communications Director. More dirty tricks!"
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah, dirty tricks. So Ted Cruz started the campaign as the values candidate, right?
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: And then he came up with that really cool old thing, the bumper sticker, trusted, trust --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: Trust that.
GUTFELD: Very good.
BOLLING: And it was very good. Except the problem was, everything he has done had -- took away from that; pointed people to the fact that he wasn't to be trusted. There were a lot of dirty tricks. Donald Trump says lies. I don't know if there are lies on that. I will tell you, I had Rick Tyler on a show last week. I was interviewing him and I said, when are you going to stop what is perceived to be these dirty tricks, this -- on their hand, in campaigning? And he kind of laughed it off and arrogantly said, "oh yeah, yeah, right, whatever. Moved on." But then in the aftermath of that, there's yet another one.
PERINO: The Photoshop.
BOLLING: We've had the Photoshop, and we have the fake -- they deny it, but there was nonetheless, someone said Trey Gowdy has switch to allegiance from Ted Cruz to Marco Rubio. The Cruz camp not as they -- they not had anything to do with it. But there's a series. There's a pattern. There's an environment. It does come from the top down, it took him of a long time for Ted Cruz to get rid of whoever was doing this, and hopefully that does put an end to the dirty theory (ph).
GUILFOYLE: Interesting.
GUTFELD: Kimberly, I'm gonna -- this is Rick Tyler, earlier today on America's Newsroom. I'd like you to comment on it.
GUILFOYLE: I'd love to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK TYLER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I posted in haste. I should not have done it. I've apologized to Marco Rubio, apologized to the campaign. And I posted that on my Facebook and also shared in on Twitter. And I'm saying it here, it was a mistake, and I would not knowingly post something I knew to be false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Kimberly, the internet ensnares all.
GUILFOYLE: It sure does, like a little charlotte's web, but dirtier. So he said he's sorry, right? But sometimes sorry isn't good enough. This created the culture and perception that there were, you know, misdeeds, untruth, half truth, and outright lies happening. And this comes on the heels of the allegations from the Carson campaign, that they did this, in fact, to be able to, you know, win in Iowa. So something had to be done, because you even saw after that closet incident where Carson was with Cruz, somewhere with the closet that did have like, furniture in it, I don't know, and that wasn't good enough, right? So now, everybody kind of came away from it. So perception is reality in politics, in large measure. So people have this kind of like idea like -- I don't know about that guy. He had to do something to make a public statement to disavow, so that's what he's done. But what's interesting is the party that has been wronged has now come to the defense of the man that supposedly wronged them -- tangled web.
GUTFELD: There you go.
GUILFOYLE: Who will hire him next?
GUTFELD: I don't know -- Juan, maybe? Juan --
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yeah.
GUTFELD: So, wouldn't -- I think he should have been fired, mainly because this is so incredibly stupid. Because who would believe that Rubio would trash the bible. It's like if somebody sent that your way -- a lot of people get tricked by things on the e-mails, stories about, you know, Muslims, bullets gets in muscle -- in pork, whatever. So this --
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: This is obviously --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: There's no way that Rubio would ever trash the bible. How it's -- how did Tyler not see this?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think he wants to see him. And he saw this as an opportunity and, you know, even if Rubio had been joking, it had been something between him and Rafael Cruz, you know, Ted's dad, he was looking to play it up. The problem in my mind is -- I think Rick Tyler was the fall guy. I think, I think --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I think that what Eric and Dana have said is, you know, it's what's going on at the very top, right? And so, now you get have Cruz's position say, "Oh, it wasn't me." You know, I am spotless, I am not a sinner, you know --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: It's that guy over there. Come on.
PERINO: And that happens in campaigns, where you have somebody who is the fall guy or the sacrificial lamb, because the candidate needs to make a complete -- and change, so that you can have a different headline in the morning. Well, I thought was interesting was Rubio's comeback was not the usual Rubio being really --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: Like Mr. Nice guy. It was Rubio saying, "Yeah, the candidate, he is the one who will do anything and say anything to get elected, which I think show a little bit of like." So in the campaign, you're always dealt cards and he was dealt this card today with Rick Tyler, and he --
GUILFOYLE: Played it.
PERINO: I say, played it very well.
GUTFELD: You know who the real fall guy is?
PERINO: I can't remember.
GUTFELD: Lee Majors.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. We love him.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: So you know, Eric. One thing that this could be is -- people who run businesses leave their online -- their web accounts to like, assistants and interns, which is ridiculous, because it's like the most dangerous thing you could possibly do, right? I mean like -- what if he didn't --
BOLLING: Where's the -- what are we equating to? Ted Cruz is running the business and he left it to his intern Rick Tyler?
GUTFELD: It did. Yes.
PERINO: But Rick Tyler is --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I mean Tyler could have had --
BOLLING: Oh, oh, oh.
GUTFELD: You know what I mean? Tyler could have somebody else. I don't know. You think he did it?
BOLLING: No. Because I think if someone else did it, Tyler will said look, we apologize. There was --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: There's a staffer who inadvertently used the video.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: Yeah.
BOLLING: This was put out there, but it was planned, there's no -- that you don't make mistakes about things this big when you take a shot.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: . at another candidate, especially when it has the bible reference.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: And he --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: You're ready to go with this. I'm speculating, I could be completely wrong, but someone probably said, "hey, Ted, senator, you want to do this or not?" You probably say, "Yeah, run with it, go with it, see what happens."
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: And I would -- look, don't kill me on Twitter if I'm wrong, I'm just guessing this one.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: But it's so big. You put the bible in any -- in any commentary, am I right, Dana? If you go that deep, you would want the candidate to be aware of it.
PERINO: Well, right. Like -- I think, I would say the bible, also calling somebody Hitler.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: . or a Nazi, like there, there are some things that you don't do (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Found it.
GUTFELD: Don't trash (inaudible).
PERINO: And also not -- the interns have taken a lot of the views.
GUILFOYLE: You're wrong.
GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.
PERINO: Right?
GUILFOYLE: No.
GUTFELD: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: The most important thing is what you said is that he had that card, Dana, and he said, "you know what, I'm not going to help rehabilitate. The campaign still has the taint on it, so don't trust this guy."
PERINO: That's smart.
GUILFOYLE: That's very smart.
GUTFELD: Still a three-man race after this?
WILLIAMS: Yes, it's --
PERINO: It's actually like a race -- mainly.
GUILFOYLE: It's actually five.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Well, but actually, it falls down. But the problem for Cruz is what you said at the very top. So South Carolina --
GUTFELD: It could win --
WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was perfect for him, right?
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: With the evangelicals. And Trump -- I think beat him among --
GUILFOYLE: He is.
GUTFELD: Oh no, he did. He said --
GUILFOYLE: Huge.
WILLIAMS: It wasn't huge, was it huge?
GUTFELD: But it --
PERINO: Enough.
GUTFELD: But it was huge for Trump.
GUILFOYLE: That's a play on words --
WILLIAMS: That Trump did it.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: And even among people who are very conservative --
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: . I know.
WILLIAMS: It was close to -- so going into the states.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: . that they are coming up in the south, you would think, oh, if you're Ted Cruz, you're looking to pick up steam. But if the fact is, I think that Donald Trump leads in like 10 of these 14 states. That's not possible unless he's doing very well with the evangelicals.
GUTFELD: Well -- Trump won the same share of votes in New Hampshire and South Carolina. And those states are not similar.
PERINO: True.
GUTFELD: I mean, that's --
WILLIAMS: That's evidence that he is doing well.
PERINO: Than working his tail off.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: Oh yeah.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. And he is doing well with educated --
GUILFOYLE: And he won more counties in South Carolina than Huckabee did.
BOLLING: He won everyone.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: He swept South Carolina.
GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable.
BOLLING: It was the proportional state.
WILLIAMS: It's unbelievable.
BOLLING: . and he won every single delegate.
GUTFELD: And Cruz won none. So where is his path? If you can't win any in a very conservative state, I don't know what that (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Well --
BOLLING: . I know I'm not sure if we're talking about campaigns, but the most surprising win for the South Carolina, for the Trump campaign was, the military. The military overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump. And everyone was worried about some of the comments he was making, was going to hurt him.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: It didn't.
GUILFOYLE: Didn't.
GUTFELD: Yeah. There you go. All right, Jeb Bush exited the race, but Kasich and Carson are still hanging on. If they don't get out -- it's Trump for sure the nominee -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Presidency is bigger than anyone person. And it is certainly bigger than any candidate. The people of Iowa, and New Hampshire, and South Carolina have spoken, and I really respect their decision. So tonight, I am suspending my campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BUSH: Yeah, yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: Jeb Bush ended his presidential bid, Saturday night, after failing to relieve -- revive his campaign in South Carolina, where he finished in fourth place. John Kasich and Ben Carson placed behind him, but they're still vowing to forge on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KASICH, OHIO GOVERNOR: We're gonna go to -- on March the 1st to what a number of states where we think we're going to do well. So it's a matter of continuing on. People want to consolidate; they ought to consolidate my way.
BEN CARSON, NEUROSURGEON: There are news people here who think that I'm going to make a concession speech.
(APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
CARSON: Now, this is a, just the beginning speech. When this thing started, there were 17 candidates. There are only six now and I'm still one of them. And I'm not going anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Trump finished way ahead of the pack. And if Kasich and Carson don't step aside, Krauthammer says that he's guaranteed the nomination.
GUILFOYLE: He's right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: The panic ought to be there right now. If you don't have the field that whittling to three, that I don't see how Trump is stopped. If it is a three-way race, Rubio, and Cruz, and Trump -- look, Trump got 30, 31 percent of the vote. In a three-way race, that's a dead heat with the other two. The losing candidates are going to be the ones who have the decisive effect of the trajectory of the campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right, KG, let's start with you and let's spend a couple seconds here talking about Jeb Bush who made a decision. I think they didn't have very much time when he made the decision that night, the concession speech. I thought it was a moment of patriotic grace, but the timing I thought wasn't interesting, because he didn't wait and draw it out. He decided to do it that night, and it sounded like it surprised a lot of his supporters.
GUILFOYLE: I'm sure it did. Because I'm sure they were to, you know, hopeful. They weren't expecting those kinds of results. They've been working very hard. You know, you had his brother out, you had his mother out campaigning and he seemed -- it's a feel kind of the emotion coming from him that it was very heartfelt. I mean, everybody says it's a class act because they got -- he was a very, very capable governor. And he even placed fourth, and he got out, but Kasich and Carson stayed in, which is interesting. And he certainly has the money behind him. But like you said, the moment of patriotic grace, I think he didn't want to continue forward with the people who have been so incredibly loyal and very generous to support his candidacy and support the family. So, I think, you know, once again, you know he proved to be the class act.
PERINO: Juan, your friend, Dr. Carson, right? Your so-called your friend?
WILLIAMS: He isn't.
PERINO: Do you have any insight as to what he's thinking about his past to the nomination?
WILLIAMS: I think --
GUILFOYLE: Tell us everything.
WILLIAMS: I think that he feels that there's no reason for him to get out. That he --
PERINO: Why?
WILLIAMS: He feels like, you know what, he's in it, and he's got something to say, and he thinks he's been damaged, obviously by what we're talking about in the first block with Cruz and things like that. But he still thinks as a constituency out there for him. And, you know, and it is, for him, I think becomes something of a personal mission to go forward. Now, I will say that --
GUILFOYLE: Like a pilgrimage almost.
WILLIAMS: It could be.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: But I think, you know, when I'm looking right now at Bush, by the way, I just thought, you know, he did it in a way that was classy as Kimberly said, because he did it quickly. And I think most people would have said, you know, sleep on it, let's think about it.
PERINO: Right.
WILLIAMS: And but then, what really struck me afterwards was, boy, look at the Bush dynasty. I mean the Bush family. You know, going back all the way back to the 50's and (inaudible) Bush, they're coming up through George H.W. and George W. And man, you know, it's like the Republican Party has moved away from that establishment corridor. So now, it becomes the matter of, where does that establishment go in terms of endorsements. Does Bush endorse somebody? Will it be willing to win against to Rubio?
PERINO: Well let's -- let's ask about John Kasich who -- Governor Kasich, apparently that night, on Saturday night, started calling some of the Bush supporters and saying, "OK, now I'm your guy, I'm the last governor standing." His campaign thinks that they do have a path, to say they've got support with a lot of people in states that they need it. Like in Mississippi, for example, with Trent Lott -- your thoughts on John Kasich?
BOLLING: So -- can I just do this by the numbers? Let's be -- let's just be purely analytical by the numbers, because I'm tired of getting beaten up senseless all year in a tank here (ph). This is just the numbers. Trump has won 68 percent of the delegates so far. I would say Ben Carson and John Kasich; it's time for them to move on so that their supporter and their money can go to someone else. Likely, some of them would go to Rubio; some of them may go to Trump, who knows where they would go.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BOLLING: Super -- there are 30 delegates in Nevada tomorrow -- that are proportional, but you know, never know how that's going to go. But Super Tuesday, eight days from now, 621 delegates. More than half needed to get the nomination will be divvied up. Donald Trump is doing well in somewhere around 12 or 13 of the 14 states. But Texas, being the outlier, being at 155 delegates, Ted Cruz is leading by a little bit right now.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: But it's proportional as well.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
BOLLING: So even if Ted Cruz does gets half of those delegates and Donald Trump gets a majority of the rest of them, it is Donald Trump's to lose. Hey, don't hate me -- that's what it is. And by the way, no candidate on the GOP side has ever won New Hampshire and South Carolina, and not than the nominee.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: OK, but just for the sake of it --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you the counter argument.
BOLLING: Go ahead, yeah.
WILLIAMS: Which is, you still two thirds of republicans who say --
BOLLING: Can I give you the --
WILLIAMS: I don't want Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: . Greg in here before they call us --
BOLLING: Can I give you the --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I've been hearing this non-stop.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, I know you. Because I -- even I'm hearing --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: So the leader --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: 200 percent -- he has 600 percent more than then -- then the next nearest competitor -- the delegates.
WILLIAMS: So what are republicans going to do? The party is --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: That Charles point out is a missed number because, when people drop out.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: . they're not all going with one candidate.
WILLIAMS: I agree with you. I agree with you on that. I'm just saying it's still the case; a lot of republicans don't like Donald Trump.
BOLLING: I don't disagree with that.
GUILFOYLE: Greg.
PERINO: Can we let Greg talk for a one second?
GUTFELD: You know -- that's OK.
PERINO: Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: You can comment on anything.
GUTFELD: I want to talk about Ben Carson, because I actually -- he was my favorite person in terms overall of -- just a unique breath of fresh air. But it is kind of -- even though you love the guy, it's kind of time to go home, and it shouldn't be a personal mission. It should be a patriotic mission. And it's like when you have people at your apartment or your house that you want to go home, you start yawning. It doesn't work on Bernie -- I mean on Dr. Ben Carson, because he's already half asleep. And then you will get poor Jeb. And Jeb is a great man, a great governor; great governor of Florida, which is larger than most nations. But it's like he threw a party on Fourth of July, and the guy down the block hired Van Halen.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: You know? And everybody went to that party.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: And I think it was -- it was, you know, he couldn't compete with a show man. Then you have Kasich, who, you know, he also a great governor, but it's like, starting -- you're starting a relationship too late in the game, so a lot of effort to start liking somebody.
GUILFOYLE: Well, he was last to get in. Remember when --
GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah and it's --
GUILFOYLE: When he is going to get in?
GUTFELD: You know, very slow start and it's like --
PERINO: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: At this point, you kind of like --
PERINO: All right, all right. Here we go.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I mean we're going to move to the democrats, because Hillary Clinton won Nevada, but she knows she has work to do to convince voters, elsewhere that she is not just in this race for herself -- that emission (ph) from her, next.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, isn't now (ph)?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton, soundly defeated Bernie Sanders this weekend in Nevada. Now, Sanders blames low voter turnout for his lost. He's also accusing Hillary of ripping off some of his popular talking points.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE STATE: Wall Street can never be allowed to threaten Main Street again. No bank can be too big to fail and no executive too powerful to jail.
BERNIE SANDERS, VERMONT SENATOR: We're looking into the copyright issues here, those are our words.
(LAUGHTER)
Well, obviously, I think what the secretary has recognized is the American people are extremely angry about the power of Wall Street, the greed, the illegal behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: As the democratic race moves on to South Carolina on Saturday, Clinton is acknowledging some voters concerns about her intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I understand that voters have questions. I'm going to do my very best to answer those questions. I think there's an underlying question that may be is really in the back of people's minds and that is, you know, is she in it for us, or is she in it for herself? I think that's, you know, a question that people are trying to sort through. And I'm going to demonstrate that I've always been the same person fighting for the same values, fighting to make a real difference in people's lives, long before I was ever in elected office, even before my husband was in the presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK, thoughts around the table on this, Dana?
PERINO: Well, it's the thing that -- the thing that struck me about Bernie Sanders, because she won, and I've always thought she's gonna be the nominee, so I think that she is solidifying that. She does have significant problem. I think she's very weak, et cetera. There's something that Bernie Sanders said that I think is very wrong and very dangerous. When he says, talks about illegal behavior on Wall Street, he -- that he has no evidence for it, but believe me, if Obama's Justice Department had found some sort of illegal activity, they would have delighted in fraud marking somebody to jail for that. So he is just spreading lies amongst impressionable people who really want to try to support him. And I think in particular, it will be good when he's off the stage and no longer is able to do that.
GUILFOYLE: Interesting. OK, Eric. You're making a different --
BOLLING: No, no, I agree 100 percent. I think what happened in Nevada was that she -- they realized that the African-American vote was going to come out for Hillary Clinton, and they did. And then that translates into huge, huge upside in South Carolina; 55 percent of the voting population of Democrats are African-American in South Carolina. So the numbers are overwhelming for her, in a positive way to win South Carolina.
Again, the numbers -- the delegates, you look at her delegate count, it's insane. She's got something like 600 to 72 or something crazy like that.
Also, she got some big endorsements. She got Jim Clyburn the other day on Friday, I think she got. On Friday, if I'm not mistaken. And then there's a new ad out. I don't know if we have any of it but there's a new ad out, and I can't remember who it was, an actor, Hollywood actor with a very, very strong...
GUTFELD: Morgan Freeman?
BOLLING: Morgan Freeman. Yes. Strong support for Hillary Clinton.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes.
BOLLING: I mean, if she does that, she's got -- you remember, she's going to the South now. There's a lot of African-American Democrats in the South. She runs -- she does very well, let's put it that way. It would be tough to see anyone beating her.
GUILFOYLE: Greg.
GUTFELD: It's got to be driving her crazy, because like, Bernie -- it shouldn't be this hard. But Bernie's like a tailgater. He's like a little old guy in a car right behind you, following her all the way home. She can't shake him, and she can't...
GUILFOYLE: You've got to hit the brakes.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Teach him a lesson.
GUTFELD: She can't be mean to him, because so many young people love him. He's like a socialist snuggles bear. You know, he's so crusty and happy and nice. But his ideas are so dangerous. This is a guy that wanted to abolish the CIA. Somehow thinking that the rest of the world would suddenly stop spying, because we would stop.
His mind-set as dangerous. He sees America as the problem, and the rest of the world as somehow a Benetton ad. And she's yet to go after him about this. She's yet to say, talk to him about national security or foreign policy. And so that's why he's still there. He's like the truck in "Duel."
PERINO: Also, he doesn't win, because he has never, ever targeted her weaknesses on...
GUTFELD: True.
PERINO: ... the e-mail situation, trustworthiness and on.
GUILFOYLE: He's not acting like he wants to win.
PERINO: No.
GUILFOYLE: Why wouldn't you do that? That's, like, the biggest glaring flaw that she has.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. That's Republicans talking to each other. Look, Democrats don't even want to hear it. I mean, it wouldn't work for Bernie. In fact, it would alienate some of his base if he was to go after her in a way that would please Republicans.
But I will say this. I think that Bernie doesn't have a clear path after Nevada. I mean, he's got to -- his folks are now talking about states like Minnesota, maybe Michigan, his home state of Vermont. But you're not talking about the South where this thing goes. You're not talking about even going out west to California and the like in the distant future. So exactly what is Bernie up to? What does Bernie want? And I think it's...
GUTFELD: Another personal mission.
WILLIAMS: Another -- no, I -- well, I don't think he's going to get the V.P. He'll get a primetime slot at the convention, and I think he wants more talk of just the kind we heard, about income inequality, what's not fair in this society. And he is key to getting those young voters energized for the Democrats to match the enthusiasm we now see among Republicans.
PERINO: He speaks at the convention, I hope that the Hillary campaign nitpicks every single line, because that is dangerous for her.
WILLIAMS: I don't think so. Not if...
GUILFOYLE: That's too risky. They're not going to...
WILLIAMS: If you want to fire up the base, Dana, you've got to say to the base, just as you see Trump saying to the base on the right. Somebody's got to speak to the base on the left. And you know what? Bernie Sanders has demonstrated the strength (ph) to do it.
GUILFOYLE: They're not going to share -- uh-unh. Not going to share the tent for the main event...
GUTFELD: Speaks to the freebase.
GUILFOYLE: ... like that with him. Believe me.
Next, we go live to Vegas for a preview of tomorrow's GOP showdown in Nevada. Big news breaking on the eve of the vote: Ted Cruz has forced his chief spokesman to step down after spreading a false story about Marco Rubio. Campaign Carl on that major development coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: On the eve of Nevada's Republican caucuses, we're following the breaking news from the campaign trail. Ted Cruz has asked for the resignation of his communications director, Rick Tyler.
For more on that, let's go to Campaign Carl live in Vegas. Carl, tell us. Now, you've been on campaigns for a long time. Rick Tyler has been on campaigns for a long time. I'm sure you know him. The question we have at the table is, these are things that have come out of the campaign. Are they generated by Rick Tyler? Did they come from the top or somewhere in between, and is he just a scapegoat?
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's not a scapegoat. He actually apologized for the tweet that erroneously suggested that Marco Rubio had insulted the Bible, based upon a report in a college newspaper from Pennsylvania. He apologized for it.
But in Republican politics, you can get away with an awful lot of dirty tricks. You can get away with a lot of falsehoods and a lot of downright lies. What you cannot get away with, because evangelicals are so important in the GOP, you can't get away with saying things about the Bible that aren't in keeping with conservative values. And this made it sound like the Cruz campaign was alleging that Marco Rubio has dissed the Bible.
And in the process, because it was inaccurate, they perpetuate a dis on the Bible. And so Ted Cruz recognizing that Rubio would never let it go, had little chance, little opportunity, little choice but to -- to set aside Rick Tyler so that they could move on.
It has creating a big problem within the Cruz campaign. The Cruz campaign has been accused over and over and over again of dirty tricks and deceit and lies, particularly by Donald Trump and Marco Rubio. And this is one where they had to apologize, because the newspaper erroneously suggested that -- that Marco Rubio had said something derogatory.
So Rick Tyler's a journeyman pol. He'll bounce back from this, but the Cruz campaign simply couldn't compete with that distraction laying in front of them.
BOLLING: Dana.
PERINO: Just curious what you're hearing about turnout for tomorrow night. We've had record turnout in the other states. Is that going to stay the course in Nevada?
CAMERON: Hi, Dana. There will certainly -- there may well be a record turnout. But the record turnout in Nevada is not all that impressive. It will be between 50,000 and maybe 70,000 votes total for the Republican caucuses. That would be approximately a 10 percent turnout. In the past two cycles, the turnout here has been 7 percent and 12 percent of registered Republicans.
The Nevada caucuses are the youngest, if you will, of the four nation states. This is the first in the west contest, and it's had a history of poor turnout, a history of sort of very limited participation. And it doesn't often change the trajectory of the race. But it does get western voters in it. And it brings in a lot of Latinos, South Carolina brings in a lot of African-Americans on the Democratic side. It's not the case really the Latino vote here in what will be a 50 to 70,000 vote turnout is all that strong for Republicans.
So it's going to be a tight battle, particularly for second. Donald Trump has a big lead. And the question is, will this create fallout for Ted Cruz and let Marco Rubio, who spent his childhood here in Las Vegas, pull off a second-place win and perhaps suppress Cruz's turnout? We'll find that out tomorrow evening.
BOLLING: All right -- Greg.
GUTFELD: Hi, Carl, how are you?
CAMERON: Good.
GUTFELD: So I want to know, this Bible, this fake Bible story, it came from a college paper. Have they located the writer, and had him arrested?
CAMERON: No, I doubt it.
This is -- this is one of those situations where the campaign saw an opportunity. They've obviously been very aggressive in trying to undermine Marco Rubio, and it blew up on them.
And again, it is not so much that it was a dirty trick or a deceit as it was one that involved use of the Bible. And for conservatives, particularly because of the Christian conservative vote in the Republican Party, that's something that can't be recovered. They had to -- they had to basically cauterize the wound.
BOLLING: K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Carl, were people surprised by the response coming out of the Rubio camp, essentially saying, "Listen, fine, he can put down Rick all you want, but nevertheless, the problem sticks straight with Ted Cruz and his campaign and the culture they have there"?
CAMERON: Not at all, the field is winnowing. We're now down, effectively, to four candidates plus Carson. John Kasich doesn't really seem to have much opportunity to catch up here in Nevada. He's looking way down the road. So -- so Marco Rubio is trying to take out Ted Cruz.
It's interesting. Rubio has not yet engaged all that aggressively with Donald Trump. Cruz has. And Rubio has clearly figured out that, if he can trip up Cruz permanently, that he'll be the more mainstream Republican. Donald Trump will be the outsider, and they can take it to the finish line together.
BOLLING: All right. Mr. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Carl, I'm curious. When I look at the polls, it's just -- it looks like, you know, it's a done deal for Donald Trump. In Nevada people point out it's just a huge -- I think it's plus 26 at the moment. But I'm also reminded that last time around, we didn't know what happened in Nevada, because the party tends to count the votes, and they sometimes get confused. They haven't hired Microsoft like the folks at the Iowa caucus. Do you expect that we will go to sleep at any decent hour tomorrow, Carl?
GUTFELD: Together?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God!
CAMERON: Not on the East Coast, because the caucuses end here in Las Vegas at 9 p.m. local time, so that's midnight on the East Coast.
And -- and look, they have tried to fix some of the problems in the past. One of the things that they're going to do, instead of carrying the ballots in an envelope to a central counting location, what they're going to do is have staffers at each caucus location do the count right on a manila envelope. The total count on the outside. Take a digital picture of it, e-mail it to central headquarters counting area, and then courier it or get it there, as well. So it will be duplicated.
This is supposed to make it a little bit more official. But it is a caucus. It's run by the parties. It's run by people on their own locations. So anything can happen, and in Vegas, it almost always does. It's just not supposed to get out of here.
BOLLING: Going to say thank you very much. Can I reiterate my call to get rid of the caucus process? Get rid of it. It's time to be primaries, straight across the board. All right. Thank you, Carl.
Ahead, Congress and the FBI are stepping up pressure on Apple to stop fighting and comply with an order to unlock a San Bernardino terrorist's iPhone. Will the company reconsider? That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Apple is still defying a government order to unlock the phone of a San Bernardino terrorist. It's called in the name of protecting the privacy of its customer, according to Apple. That decision has set off some of the presidential candidates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There has to be a way to deal with this issue that continues to protect the privacy of Americans but creates some process by which law enforcement and intelligence agencies could access encrypted information.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): I think security overall, we have to open it up, and we have to use our heads. We have to use common sense.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Apple has a serious argument that they should not be forced to put a back door in every cell phone everyone has. If that creates a real security exposure.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am very fearful in America about Big Brother. What I also worry about is the possibility of another terrorist attack against our country. And frankly, I think there is a middle ground that can be reached.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's got to be some way, on a very specific basis, we could try to help get information around crimes and terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: The FBI has just posted an open letter of its own to Apple. Director Jim Comey insists his agency's request is about the victims and justice. Comey says he's not trying to break into anyone's encryption or get a master set of keys and, you know, have them out there for anyone to use.
Congress has asked Apple's chief, Tim Cook, to testify.
So what we have here is privacy versus national security. No?
GUTFELD: No. That is a fallacy. That freedom versus security argument is false. They complement each other. You cannot have freedom without security.
If you want total freedom from security, go to Somalia, go to Venezuela. But you -- once you have security, you have freedom.
And everyone's a hypocrite on this. If that phone contained information on an attack on Apple, do you think Cook would be so heroically principled?
WILLIAMS: So you're saying that, in fact, you've got -- Apple is wrong, and you think the judge's order should be enforced?
GUTFELD: I also think Apple might be lying. They might be helping, just doing this as a symbolic fight.
WILLIAMS: K.G.
GUILFOYLE: A lot of conspiracy theories.
WILLIAMS: We go to the prosecutor.
GUTFELD: Got to pick one.
GUILFOYLE: Well, I like the statement that Jim Comey is making, and I think it's important, because he has to kind of put it out there, because there's a lot of confusion and misinformation in this regard, and this is specific and situational to be able to go in. It is a matter of national security.
Tell it to someone whose loved ones could be killed in the next terror attack, because we couldn't get the information right there. That's an information-rich environment that they should be able to tap into.
I mean, lives were lost. Why wouldn't you want to prevent something like that from happening again? With no longer, you know, impenetrable here in terms of the U.S. and our safety. We know this; we've been attacked; they were able to do it. Why are you letting the bad guys -- I get it. Apple has to protect their image and their dollar signs and their, you know, balance sheet, but what about human life?
WILLIAMS: Well, but Rubio says, Eric, in fact, if you create a back door, criminals will find the back door, and then they'll use it against you.
BOLLING: And that's the counter argument, that criminals get it, No. 1. No. 2, that you've made Apple ruin one of the biggest selling points of their iPhone. I know you don't want to talk about profit, but can I give you a solution that might work for everyone?
WILLIAMS: Go right ahead.
BOLLING: Let Apple -- and I do agree with Greg. They probably do have easily the key to the back door.
GUILFOYLE: Edward Snowden said you can get in the phone already.
BOLLING: Allow me to finish.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: But it's once they open that key, K.G., they've ruined the selling point of the encryption of the phone. So they've lost -- their stock price will tank unless they work with the FBI and say, "We will unencrypt this phone, and work with you to create an bigger firewall for the next generation of iPhones, but at your expense. Then, if you're really concerned about security, you'll pay for it."
WILLIAMS: You'll pay for it. Dana, in fact, part of the argument coming from Apple is, if they don't keep security total, another company somewhere else in the world will do it, and everybody will buy their phones.
PERINO: I realize that some people bought the iPhone for encryption technology purposes. I bought it to send pictures of my dog everywhere. So that was the selling point for me.
However, several of the candidates there in the montage said, there's got to be some way. Right? As if they were the technical experts. And if there was some way, I think that Apple and the FBI would have been able to figure that out without ratcheting it up to this level.
My gut instinct is for yes, of course, you comply with the government, and you help and you defend the people, and you find justice or you track down those leads.
GUILFOYLE: Pursuant to a warrant.
PERINO: But then the people that I really respect and admire, like the former CIA director, Mike Hayden, and former solicitor general Ted Olson, have other arguments, and I've read them both. My gut instinct still says it's an emotional argument.
WILLIAMS: Supporting Apple.
PERINO: P.R.-wise -- they are supporting Apple. But P.R.-wise for me, I think that Apple is on the losing side of this crisis.
WILLIAMS: Tim Cook goes to jail, according to Dana Perino.
PERINO: OK. There we go again. There you go again, Juan. Putting words into my mouth.
WILLIAMS: All right, all right. I know. Tim Cook in jail.
BOLLING: Don't put words in her mouth.
WILLIAMS: Tim Cook will find that orange is the new -- I don't know.
PERINO: Juan, you've got to have a hairdo.
WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
GUTFELD: "One More Thing" -- Eric.
BOLLING: OK. So the Simpsons took on the 2016 race. Actually, Marge is dreaming about a field of candidates that actually got along until they didn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: "How sweet it is to be loved by you")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was perfect. The rest of you morons were flat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flat? Or flat broke like the casinos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flat, like the Canadian prairie you were born on.
RUBIO: And let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that he doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing, exactly what he's doing.
Oops.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: We definitely have the personalities on the GOP side.
PERINO: That's right.
GUTFELD: Juan.
WILLIAMS: Meeting the first black president on Sunday was a dream come true for 106-year-old Virginia McLawrence, a woman born in a time of rigid segregation in the United States. Watch her reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIRGINIA MCLAWRENCE, 106 YEARS OLD: Hi! How are you?
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: I'm fine.
MCLAWRENCE: I'm here to celebrate black history.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's exactly right.
MCLAWRENCE: That's what I'm here for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Wow. I love it.
WILLIAMS: I'm telling you. Live -- you know, history comes alive sometimes.
BOLLING: How old?
WILLIAMS: A hundred and six.
PERINO: What's her secret?
BOLLING: Amazing.
WILLIAMS: I don't know. I want to know her secret. She's looking good.
GUTFELD: Knock it off, Juan.
GUILFOYLE: There you go again, being yourself.
GUTFELD: Can't control himself.
All right. If you're ever wondering, should Donald Trump be president? A guy named Hugh Parkinson made him a "Game of Thrones" character, and the answer is yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have travelled very far. We have no food, no water. Once I see my people fed, I would be honored...
TRUMP: No, we have a serious problem with radical Islam. We have a tremendous problem, and we can't be the stupid country any more.
The pope. The pope was in Mexico, do you know that? He said negative things about me. The pope is being told that Donald Trump is not a nice person. Donald Trump is a very nice person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: That is what the Internet is for. All right, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: OK. To very important news. It is the unofficial, yes, holiday of National Margarita Day. And in 1948 a socialite with a lot of good ideas decided to have a margarita and invent it.
PERINO: Absolutely.
GUILFOYLE: Her name was Margarita Sames. So 1948. Later came the frozen margaritas. Not sure what your pleasure is. But this is going to be mine. For the viewers at home, this is virgin.
GUTFELD: I want to invent a drink.
GUILFOYLE: I'm not done. And the best margaritas, Michelle makes them. But other than that, if you go to the store, tela loche (ph) and chips and salsa.
GUTFELD: There you go. Dana.
PERINO: Perfect. OK.
GUILFOYLE: This is chipotle.
PERINO: Well, washing a car can be a bummer, right?
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Unless you are Max, who is a K-9 trooper, and his buddy, Vermont State Police Trooper Nicholas Arlington, had to hose down his cruiser. And this German Shepherd had a blast. His name is Max. He's 3 years old. He helps wash the car, and I think we have a picture of Max. Cute, right? Look at him.
BOLLING: Good boy.
PERINO: Look at him. Pretty good.
GUTFELD: All right. Well, that's nice.
PERINO: And I left you with some time, Greg. So you can fill it any way you like.
GUTFELD: Thank you. I'll go hose down my cruiser.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Stephanie, for the margaritas.
GUTFELD: All right. I'm going to see you back here tomorrow on GOP caucus day in Nevada. "Special Report" next.
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