Gingrich: Americans migrating away from dealmaking center
On 'Hannity,' former House speaker shares his advice for the GOP hopefuls ahead of South Carolina
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," February 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity."
And tonight, we're only four days away from the Republican primary in South Carolina, and according to the RealClearPolitics average out of the Palmetto State, Donald Trump has a double-digit lead over his rivals with 36.3 percent. Ted Cruz is in second with 17.8 percent, Marco Rubio in third with 15.8 percent.
As all of the candidates now look to make gains in the polls ahead of this Saturday's primary, well, rhetoric out on the campaign trail -- it's getting very heated. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I pointed out Donald's record of being pro-choice for 60 years, of supporting partial-birth abortion, and I pointed out that Donald even today supports taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood. And Marco's position right now is he supports a pathway to citizenship for the 12 million people who are here illegally.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This has been a pattern now (INAUDIBLE) spent the last (INAUDIBLE) literally just making stuff up. Even today, he's out there giving a speech on national defense and just ignoring his record (INAUDIBLE) Every national defense authorization bill that he's had a chance to vote on, he's voted against, every single one. And those are the bills that authorize spending on Fort Jackson, on the armory here, on troop pay increases.
JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio is a great guy, believes in increased defense spending, but he claims he has foreign policy experience because he goes to committee hearings.
TRUMP: Bush made a statement, it was like this jumbled-up statement with all sorts of -- I mean, it was ridiculous. And everyone said, yes, yes, yes. But you know, Ted holds up the Bible, and then he lies about so many things. And I mean, these are lies!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, here with reaction, the author of the New York Times best-seller "Duplicity," former speaker of the House, Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich.
All right, so you won South Carolina. This is very predictable. I can give you the history, give our audience the history of this. Does any of this rhetoric this week surprise you heading into Saturday?
NEWT GINGRICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's pretty tough even by South Carolina standards.
HANNITY: Yes.
GINGRICH: And when you have everybody yelling, You're a liar, You're a liar, You're a liar, it's pretty strange. But I have to take three seconds, Sean, to say I think the Hillary barking thing...
HANNITY: Yes!
GINGRICH: ... may be the weirdest thing by a major presidential candidate I have ever seen.
(LAUGHTER)
GINGRICH: When I first saw it...
HANNITY: I'm going to get to it later. You're blowing my show here!
GINGRICH: No, no. I'm just telling you. (INAUDIBLE) a minute ago. That is so weird, it makes anything Republicans do seem normal.
HANNITY: Yes. Well, between that and -- you know, she almost changed on the spot in that speech in Iowa, and she echoed it in New Hampshire, in terms of trying to out-Bernie and out-socialist Bernie Sanders, which tells me...
GINGRICH: Unbelievable.
HANNITY: Well, now there's real desperation setting in in that campaign.
GINGRICH: Well...
HANNITY: In Nevada?
GINGRICH: ... you could have -- look, you could have on Saturday Sanders win Nevada, Trump win South Carolina. Now, that's a revolution in American politics if those two things happen.
HANNITY: The polls -- well, it's a little closer in Nevada, especially, Hillary had a slight lead. But she was up by 25 points. This was supposed to be the firewall for her. You know, if you read the reports today, they're in a -- the, quote, "state of panic is palpable," one reporter wrote and they are scared to death and now they're talking about, well, the electorate in Nevada may be too white. There may not be enough minorities. It may not be indicative of what the real campaign is about, which is kind of an argument they made and excuses they made in New Hampshire.
GINGRICH: Wait. What kind of candidate, though, starts by saying, I can't get any white votes. Please take me somewhere where there aren't any white votes.
I mean, think about the whole logic of the Clinton campaign now and it gets confused. But think about this, also. I did a piece that'll come out tomorrow. I do two free newsletters a week at GingrichProductions.com. And I'm writing about the fact you now have these two alternative universes.
Here in the middle, you've got the deal-making traditional politicians. Over here, you've got have Sanders, who lives in his own world, and over here, you have Trump, who lives in his own world, and the rest of us are having a hard time understanding it because these are turning out to be very big universes.
And you know, I frankly thought when Trump took on George W. Bush in a state where Bush is very popular -- about 84 percent approval -- I thought he would suffer in the polls. And he doesn't. I mean, people -- people who like Donald Trump are willing to say, you know, He's sincere, he's tough, maybe sometimes he goes a little overboard, but he's doing it in the right direction.
And that lead that you're citing now is pretty clear. It's an amazing lead for him to go into this Saturday with in South Carolina.
HANNITY: He does transcend conventional political gravity. I've used that phrase all throughout this process, and there's been many a predictions of the demise, none of which obviously have come true. But it seems the Republican establishment is just in a state of panic. They hate Trump and they hate Cruz. And Trump and Cruz keep being number one and two. So...
GINGRICH: Well, you got the Clinton establishment's in a state of panic, and the traditional Republican establishment's in a state of panic, and that's because out here, the American people are migrating away from the traditional deal-making center and moving to two very dramatically different visions of America's future.
HANNITY: Are you confident, assuming Trump wins South Carolina -- it's probably going to be hard to stop him. Now, they're going to head to Nevada, and then, of course, it's the big SEC super-Tuesday primary. That's going to tell us everything. We may now have a very clear picture that it may become unstoppable.
So what advice do you have for him or any of the other candidates here?
GINGRICH: Well, I think they all have totally different situations. And you know, Cruz has got to, I think, be the conservative who tries to slow down the train, if you will, when you get to the Southern primaries. But I think he and Rubio now are about tied, and of course, that's part of the problem from the standpoint of how do you stop Trump. He's only at 35 percent, which if everybody else consolidated, might mean he would lose -- might not, by the way, because you can't be sure all those votes would go to anybody other than Trump. But that's the theory of the Republican establishment.
I got several e-mails today from people saying, Gee, you know, if you take this, you do this, you do this -- the problem they got is Bush isn't going to drop out. Rubio's not going to drop out. Cruz isn't going to drop out. Kasich is not going to drop out. Carson may be less of a factor.
But take those four. Why should any one of them say, Oh, I'm going to sacrifice and quit so we can consolidate? And the result is, I think you very likely are going to see Trump. I wish he were a little more presidential. I think it would be better for him. I think it'd be better for the country. But I have to say this aggressive, strident style -- he is holding his base together in a way that I did -- I really thought he would suffer from the debate performance the other night, and it doesn't seem to have had any impact at all.
HANNITY: Do you see a path to him in a general election? Do you see a path that's very different than either...
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Why are you laughing?
GINGRICH: I'm laughing because think about the general election. Does he get to run against...
HANNITY: Hillary or the socialist?
(CROSSTALK)
GINGRICH: This is, by the way -- this is -- remember, the reason she's barking is that they had a dog in Bill's race.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Yes.
GINGRICH: ... who was trained to bark when the candidate lied. I mean, how could he have had the dog near Hillary Clinton without it barking all the time?
(LAUGHTER)
GINGRICH: So you know, on the one hand, you could have Trump versus the most dishonest candidate in modern times, or you could have Bernie promising that he'll eliminate all billionaires and Trump promising to make all of us a billionaire. And you get to decide which of the two futures do you like better?
I mean, In some ways, I kind of like the idea of a Trump versus Sanders. Let's choose. You want free enterprise? You want socialism? You want gigantic bureaucracies? You want to be out here working every morning trying to make your way forward? It would be a fascinating race.
HANNITY: All right, I have a very important question. To me, Republicans in Washington that -- the base, 60 percent of them or so, feel betrayed by -- I think this is a do or die moment as it relates to the Supreme Court.
I'm going to ask you that question when we get back. We'll have more with former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich when we get back, and I'll ask him about the looming showdown between he president and Republicans over the now vacant Supreme Court seat.
And also tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: How did he keep us safe when the World Trade Center during his time in office came down? If you go back, you will see the CIA and other agencies had information that bad things were going to happen. And yes, the answer is he should have known.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, Donald Trump continues his attacks against former president George W. Bush. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani is here to respond tonight.
Plus...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, you know, the great recession was caused by too much regulation. Arf, arf, arf, arf, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: It is surreal. Video everyone's talking about, Hillary Clinton barking like a dog all in an attempt to attack Republicans. That and more on this busy news night tonight on "Hannity."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." A battle is brewing between President Obama and Republican lawmakers over who will fill Justice Scalia's seat on the Supreme Court.
Earlier today during a press conference, President Obama said he will nominate a candidate. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The Constitution is pretty clear about what is supposed to happen now. When there's a vacancy on the Supreme Court, the president of the United States is to nominate someone. The Senate is to consider that nomination, and either they disapprove of that nominee or that nominee is elevated to the Supreme Court.
QUESTION: Should we interpret your comments just now you are likely to choose a moderate nominee?
OBAMA: No.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: Would you -- OK.
OBAMA: I don't know where you found that. You shouldn't assume anything about the qualifications of the nominee other than they're going to be well qualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And while President Obama vows to nominate a replacement, many of the 2016 GOP presidential candidates -- well, they believe it should be the next president's decision. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire balance of power on the court hangs in the balance here. I believe we should make 2016 a referendum on the U.S. Supreme Court. Let the voters decide. If the Democrats want to fill this vacancy, they need to win in November.
JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president has every right to submit a name, and the Senate has every right either to have an up or down vote or to defer. I don't think there's any problem with doing that.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They can function with eight justices. Their term ends in the middle part of this year. Then we're going to have an election in November where the voters are going to get weigh in on what kind of justice they want by casting their vote for the right president.
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I think what's going to happen is he'll put in somebody who's probably a little more moderate than he would have normally done. I still think the Republicans should reject. I think the new president should have that option.
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I just think at a time when the country is so divided, it would just be great if the president didn't send somebody forward and we had an election, and then everybody would be clear about what they want in the next Supreme Court justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now, the president also filibustered Sam Alito and Justice Alito. And also, he went against Judge Roberts. But yet he said both were qualified. You may remember this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Judge Roberts is qualified to sit on the highest court in the land. Moreover, he seems to have the comportment and the temperament that makes for a good judge. He's humble. He's personally decent. And he appears to be respectful of different points of view. And it's absolutely clear to me that Judge Roberts truly loves the law.
I have no doubt that Judge Alito has the training and qualifications necessary to serve. As has been already stated, he has received the highest rating from the ABA. He's an intelligent man and an accomplished jurist. There's no indication that he's not a man of fine character.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Back with us with reaction, former speaker of the House, FOX News contributor Newt Gingrich. To me, Mr. Speaker, this is a do or die moment for the Senate. Now, they promised repealing and replacing "Obama care." They never fought the fight. They never used the power of the purse. 2014, they said they'd stop executive amnesty. They broke that promise, as well.
They now have said they will stop this nomination. If they back down, to me, I think so many Republicans are going to wash their hands of these people. I mean, totally just forget it.
GINGRICH: Look, I don't want to preemptively worry about them backing down. This is probably Mitch McConnell's finest hour. He is a great tactician. He understands the Senate remarkably well. He has indicated clearly the president might as well not send anybody up because they're not going to have a hearing. They're not going to be voted on. And they're not going to come to the floor. Now, he can actually enforce that...
HANNITY: You see, but if you were the Senate majority leader, I'd have faith you'd hold the line! I don't have that faith in Mitch McConnell.
GINGRICH: Oh, I -- no, I think McConnell -- look, McConnell understands what's at stake here. This is a huge 25-year historic balance of power. And for example, every person in America who cares about the 2nd Amendment is going to be up in arms over this whole issue and is going to be telling their congressman, their senators, you know, You cannot allow the president to appoint a radical, and that's what the president's going to do. And you can't shift the balance of power.
And there will be something really wrong about the idea of replacing Justice Scalia, who's the leading intellectual conservative of our generation, with a left-winger -- just something wrong with that. So I think you're going to find that the Senate is going to be overwhelmingly committed to just not paying attention to it and going on to other topics.
HANNITY: Listen, I hope you're right, but I think people like myself, who have been disappointed, have cause for skepticism. All right, you've got to, though, laugh. It is very funny. Let's play Chuck Schumer -- 18 months left in the Bush presidency, with what he's saying now because it's pretty humorous. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: The job first and foremost is for the president to nominate and for the Senate to hold hearings and go through the process. You know, the Constitution -- Ted Cruz holds the Constitution, you know, when he walks through the halls of Congress. Let him show me the clause that says the president's only president for three years. To leave the Supreme Court vacant for 300 days in a divided time -- this kind of obstructionism isn't going to last. And you know, we Democrats didn't do this.
We should not confirm any Bush nominee to the Supreme Court except in extraordinary circumstances. They must prove...
(APPLAUSE)
SCHUMER: They must prove by actions, not words, that they are in the mainstream, rather than we have to prove that they are not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: That was in July of '07, 450 days left in Bush's presidency!
GINGRICH: You know, you seldom get such clear, blatant hypocrisy...
HANNITY: Yes!
GINGRICH: ... as you do with Schumer in this case. And of course, it strips any sense of moral authority away from the case. This is a place where Hillary's little dog would be barking because, you know...
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: OK.
GINGRICH: ... I mean, Schumer is so clearly being dishonest, and he was very happy to block conservatives when George W. Bush was there, but now he's unhappy if the same thing comes around on a shorter timeframe, as you pointed out. He was giving that speech in July of last year in comparative presidential time.
HANNITY: In July of '07.
GINGRICH: That's right.
HANNITY: With 18 months left in the Bush presidency.
GINGRICH: But here I think is what people have got to remember. Nothing in the Constitution and nothing in American history requires the Senate to approve the president's nomination. Presidents don't appoint. They nominate.
And we've had a number of cases going back all the way into the -- actually, all the way back to the John Quincy Adams period in the early 19th century where it's taken a long time. We had one president who sent up nine different people and only got two of them approved.
So there's a long precedent for this. The Senate Republicans are exactly within their rights. And my hope is that every conservative in the country is going to be reinforcing for their senators, You're doing the right thing. Hang tough. Do your constitutional job, which is not to give Barack Obama what he wants, but it's to preserve that seat for the next president to make a choice. And that, by the way, will really increase the importance of the presidential election this fall.
HANNITY: Well said. Well said. All right, Mr. Speaker, I hope they hold the line. Thank you.
GINGRICH: Good to see you.
HANNITY: And coming up, more on who should nominate Justice Scalia's replacement.
And also later tonight...
CLINTON: Oh, you know, the great recession was caused by too much regulation. Arf, arf, arf, arf, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: You can't make it up. Hillary Clinton hits an embarrassing new low on the campaign trail after barking like a dog to attack Republicans. We'll check in with Monica Crowley and Juan Williams. They will be here to weigh in on that.
But first, Donald Trump has been going after President George W. Bush hard in recent days. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani will be here with reaction tonight as "Hannity" continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIN SCALIA, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT: I would not like to be replaced by someone who immediately sets about undoing everything that I've tried to do for 25 years, 26 years. Sure. But I mean, I shouldn't have to tell you that, unless you think I'm a fool!
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, that was Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia back in 2012 explaining what kind of judge he'd like to be replaced by on the high court. Now, the vacancy left by his death is now shaping up to be a heated political battle in Washington. Here with reaction, author of "Undemocratic," from the American Center for Law and Justice, Jay Sekulow, and George Washington law professor Jonathan Turley. Good to see you both.
Constitutionally, if either one of you can tell me, is it within the Senate's right, their constitutional role, advise and consent -- is it within their right to wait. Jay Sekulow.
JAY SEKULOW, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE: Of course. Article 2, section 2 of the Constitution gives power of the president to nominate, but it's to the Senate to advise and consent. And they could decide not even to have a hearing, for that matter.
So while I don't -- you know, I don't disagree that the president feels like he has the obligation, I get it, to put a nomination forward. I think the Republicans need to say no because the next nominee, the next justice of the Supreme Court, will affect the outcome of the decisions probably a lot longer than Jonathan Turley and I will be around, I mean, for generations.
HANNITY: Yes.
SEKULOW: So the reality is, I think that the Senate needs to have the backbone to do what the Democrats, including Chuck Schumer, said they would do to President Bush and what the Democrats in 1960 to Eisenhower. So I think this is as old as Supreme Court nominations itself.
This is what the Constitution -- you know, elections have consequences. Yes, the president gets to appoint, but the consequence of the Senate being controlled by the Republicans is doesn't mean his nominee gets through.
HANNITY: I think that's well said. It is funny, when I played earlier, Jonathan Turley, and in July of 2007, Chuck Schumer had a very different opinion that he's now talking about. But what is your take on it?
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: Well, it's actually quite interesting, also, that as Senator Obama, he participated in the filibuster of Justice Alito. And so there's a long history for this type of decision. It is certainly true that when you're given the power of advise and consent, you can also refuse consent.
There is no requirement for them to take up a nomination. I happen to think it would be a good thing for them to give a hearing to this nominee. But I also believe that it would be important for President Obama to confirm that he's not going use a recess appointment. When he was asked that in his press conference, he didn't actually say, I won't do a recess appointment. He just said, My expectations are that they will hold hearings and give a vote.
HANNITY: Wouldn't Mitch McConnell be able to from here on forward through the rest of President Obama's term not go into recess?
TURLEY: Well, the problem is...
SEKULOW: Yes.
TURLEY: ... the end of session, when they -- when right before the new president comes in. I think that would be a terrible recess appointment to be made. I'm a critic of recess appointments generally to the judiciary.
HANNITY: Yes.
TURLEY: But in that gap between the election and the new administration, he would have the ability to do a recess appointment.
HANNITY: Yes. Jay, it seems to me...
(CROSSTALK)
SEKULOW: ... recess appointment -- yes, the recess appointment clause allows for the Senate to not into recess, and the Supreme Court was very clear most recently in (INAUDIBLE) versus Henning (ph) that they have the right to stay in session and they determine the rules.
But there's something else interesting which Jonathan said, which is I think to point out, and that is Barack Obama himself was the one who was one of the people that voted for a filibuster of Samuel Alito. That's what he was encouraging, was a filibuster.
What's interesting about that, he was asked that today at the press conference, and he really had no response because the president knows exactly what he's up against. And I think, of course, a recess appointment -- look, it would put the court in chaos for a year, so to speak, but the recess would be over, and depending on who the president is, you'd have a selection and the process go forward.
But I think it's fair to say that the Republicans can prevent this and can use parliamentary rules to prevent it and need to do everything they can to do that.
HANNITY: And if I was Mitch McConnell, I'd stay in session, which he has the power to do. All right...
SEKULOW: Not kidding.
HANNITY: ... guys, thank you both.
SEKULOW: Absolutely.
HANNITY: Appreciate your insight. Thank you.
And coming up -- Donald Trump has been attacking President George W. Bush on the campaign trail. We'll get former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani's take on all of that.
And also later tonight, you don't want to miss this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Oh, you know, the great recession was caused by too much regulation. Arf, arf, arf, arf, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: I laugh every time I see it, Hillary barking like a dog to attack Republicans during a campaign rally. We'll check in with Monica Crowley and Juan Williams. They will be here with reaction and more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The World Trade Center came down during your brother's reign, remember that.
The World Trade Center came down during his reign, so you can't say that we were safe under his reign when the World Trade Center comes down and the CIA said something like that was going to happen.
When Jeb Bush gets upset, my brother kept America safe. What's kept -- how did he keep us safe when the World Trade Center during his time in office came down?
You go back, you will see the CIA and other agencies had information that bad things were going to happen, and, yes, the answer is he should have known.
Excuse me. The World Trade Center came down during the, you know, reign of George Bush, right? I mean, it came down.
I'm sorry. But we weren't safe. The World Trade Center came down, which was the greatest attack in history on this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, that was Donald Trump going after President George W. Bush in recent days, and while the 43rd president is not directly responding to Trump's remarks, Vice President Dick Cheney on the other hand is firing back. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: He sounds like a liberal Democrat to me, Bret. He's wrong, and he's, I think, deliberately promoting those views in order to advance his political interests. It is a disappointment, frankly, that he's acting that way. I haven't endorsed anybody. I don't have an ax to grind in terms of that. But I think it's a misleading for him to campaign on that basis.
The way he treats these issues and the people involved in it does, I think, a great disservice to the tremendous record of our military and our intelligence personnel who put their lives on the line during that period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Joining me with reaction, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. This whole idea of responsibility for bin Laden, I'm going to play a tape for you. This is Bill Clinton admitting he was offered bin Laden and that bin Laden was a threat to the United States but he didn't have a legal justification to take him. This to me says everything we need to know about how we had a pre-9/11 mindset and where the mistake was made. Let's roll this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: Mr. Bin laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991. Then he went to Sudan and we'd been hearing this with America to start and dealing with them again. They released him at the time 1996 he had committed no crime against America so we had no business to hold him though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America. So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him because they could have. They didn't, and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: He knew he wanted to commit crimes against the U.S. I had no legal justification to bring him here. Wasn't that a huge mistake?
RUDY GIULIANI, R-FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Yes. It was a huge mistake, but a huge mistake in retrospect. A mistake at the time. What do I mean by that? We didn't understand the gravity of it until after 9/11. And I have -- I have consistently from the day it happened, and there are very mu few people that have been affected by 9/11 as much as I have.
HANNITY: I know.
GIULIANI: I don't hold President Clinton accountable and I don't hold President Bush accountable. And in fact the words of Marco Rubio used in the debate the other night eerily are exactly the same words I used on September 11, 2001. I grabbed Bernie Kerik's arm when the second building came down, and I said thank God that George Bush is the president of the United States. I repeated it right here at my keynote speech of the 2004 convention.
HANNITY: Right.
GIULIANI: And got a standing ovation. And to this day I will tell you this. In history George W. Bush will go down as a great president because he protected America. He, for whatever mistakes we made before, and they were mistakes. They weren't lies. They weren't misrepresentations. If President Clinton ever thought that bin Laden was that kind of threat to America, he would have attacked him. He didn't get it.
Once we got it, what George W. Bush did was within one month put them on their heels.
HANNITY: My interpretation --
GIULIANI: And that's why we were safe. We were safe, we were safe for eight years because George Bush drove them into caves. And when you're in caves you can't plan attacks. And what Obama did is just the opposite. Obama gave them the room to operate. And there's no way you can compare Bush and Obama --
HANNITY: That was the other side of the mistake where we had cities like Ramadi, Fallujah, Mosul, and Tikrit, and not they're in the hands of ISIS and all the oil so they have more landmass and more money than any --
GIULIANI: You and I both like Donald very much. We consider him a personal friend. I also consider Jeb a personal friend and Marco. They are all my friends. And like Vice President Cheney I haven't picked anyone yet. But I don't like this idea of saying that George W. Bush lied. I know George W. Bush. He doesn't lie. He is about as honest a man as I ever met, and in my view, and Democrats can go crazy if they want, I believe he was a great president.
HANNITY: I think what he did on 9/11 -- I think Donald's disagreement has more to do because he disagreed, and I battled him at the time. He did not want us to go to Iraq. He was dead set against it. But now he says, now that we went there, you have got to win. And then he adds the point, which I don't actually disagree with, take the oil and give it to the military.
GIULIANI: Yes, yes, yes. And there's no question that President Bush made mistakes. The invasion, perfect, couldn't have done it better. The occupation, a disaster.
HANNITY: But then they fixed it.
GIULIANI: The surge worked. Ingenious. So end result is you hand over Iraq in pretty good shape to Obama. Now, maybe you didn't get there directly. You got there indirectly. But President Bush, with regard to protecting our country from the day after September 11 happened, which is when you would really get it, did a great job.
HANNITY: I want to go -- you have been our go-to guy on Hillary. Now that we have the inspector general report for the intelligence community and dozens and dozens of e-mails on her server that were beyond top secret. They were SAP classification, special access programs. My sources tell me the FBI is going to make a criminal referral.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: A criminal referral to the Justice Department. What does that mean if they're right? Because you suspect that's going to happen, too.
GIULIANI: Well, I have sources, also. I know the FBI really well, as you know.
HANNITY: Do you agree that's likely to happen?
GIULIANI: I know there are FBI agents on the case who feel very, very strongly about it. I have been told, I don't know how true it is, that if there isn't they may very well resign.
HANNITY: But you heard what I heard, that a criminal referral will be made to the Justice Department.
GIULIANI: Yes. They will recommend indictment on several counts. I don't know about Clinton Foundation. Possibly even --
HANNITY: They're looking into that now. That's the next phase. They already finished the e-mail phase.
GIULIANI: And, look, this was my business more than politics. I can see the evidence. I can see standing up in court and how I could convict her.
HANNITY: How does she act the way she's acting?
GIULIANI: I don't know. If I were her, I would be sitting with the best criminal lawyer in America.
HANNITY: If it were me I would hire you.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: That's what I would do. I would say I need you to work.
GIULIANI: I don't think she'd pick me. But I'm not bad.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: You're the right guy.
Last thing, because we have to roll. Quick word on Justice Scalia. You knew him.
GIULIANI: Nino Scalia I knew when I was a young lawyer, deputy to the chief, deputy to the attorney general of the United States. He was the head of Office of Legal Counsel. And I used to sit at meetings during the Ford administration in the Justice Department, and Robert Bork and Nino Scalia would debate each other, and it was better than being in law school. And they agreed with each other but they figure out how to disagree to prove who was smarter. Except I'll tell you one thing about Nino. He played the piano, sang. Greatest guy you'd ever meet.
HANNITY: Loved life.
GIULIANI: And he had a political and a legal philosophy that overlapped that's going to last forever.
HANNITY: Originalism.
GIULIANI: It is something. It won't always prevail, but it will be something you will have to encounter 100 years from now when you're interpreting legal opinions. The man was one of our great legal geniuses.
HANNITY: Absolutely.
GIULIANI: And one of our nicest people.
HANNITY: Well said. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
And coming next tonight right here on "Hannity" --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: The great recession caused by too much regulation. Arf, arf, arf! You know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: The mayor is laughing. You didn't hear that before? Hillary barking like a dog towards Republican rivals. Monica Crowley and Juan Williams are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." So Hillary Clinton is often dogged by criticisms over her harsh tone on the campaign trail, but now the Democratic hopeful is literally barking at Republican opponents. You're going to love this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: One of my favorite, favorite political ads of all time was a radio ad, rural Arkansas, where the announcer said wouldn't it be great if somebody running for office said something we could have an immediate reaction as to whether or not it was true or not? We have trained this dog, and the dog, if it's not true he is going to bark. I'm trying to figure out how he could do with that with Republicans. The great recession is caused by too much regulation. Arf, arf, arf. You know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Seriously? Seriously? Joining us now with reaction, co-host of "The Five" our friend, Juan Williams. Our other friend Fox News contributor Monica Crowley. Really, barking?
JUAN WILLIAMS, SENIOR EDITOR, THE HILL: That's pretty effective. The audience liked it. And it's led to mockery by you, so it gets a lot of attention.
HANNITY: That's a big deal, right?
WILLIAMS: Come on. You don't like Hillary and you think it's ridiculous and reduces her to an object of mockery.
HANNITY: her firewall Nevada is now in play. And apparently, I'll quote, John Ralston, dean of the Silver State Press Corps, the Clinton panic is palpable and aides are bending over backwards to lower expectations for Saturday night. She is in trouble.
MONICA CROWLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You can see the panic because she is barking literally on the campaign trail.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: What in the actual hell was that? We have seen this movie before, Sean, 2008. But it's one thing to lose to the hip black guy. It's another thing to be losing to the 74-year-old socialist. She could believe she was losing in 2008 and the panic started to set in. Remember the fake tears in New Hampshire. She actually won New Hampshire but then she lost. You saw the panic. They bring out Bill. This time around they're bringing out Bill, they're bringing out Chelsea, and nothing is working. So you can start to see the Clinton meltdown happening probably earlier than anybody expected, not least of all her.
HANNITY: And now Bill's a big problem, because Bill is going rogue again and he's going after Bernie Sanders. He's off script and that's panicking them as well.
WILLIAMS: I don't know if "panic" is the right word because Bill Clinton is so popular.
HANNITY: He's a shell of his former self.
WILLIAMS: I think he's looking older, but I do think that Bill Clinton remains popular. And then you hear from people like David Axelrod who was President Obama's guru who say, you know what, when it comes to defending his wife, he becomes vitriolic, histrionic. These are his words. And as a result it looks like things are out of control. And it then leads to this notion of panic. It's not at this point worthy of panic. She's not winning by as much as she was in earlier polls.
HANNITY: I don't know if she's even going to win Nevada.
WILLIAMS: You're wrong.
HANNITY: Here's the thing. She comes out in Iowa and New Hampshire with this angry, you know, loud screaming into the microphone. I played that a lot. I won't play it again here. She seems to be a chameleon. Now she's going to out-Bernie Bernie and be more socialist than him. If she goes before a predominantly black audience, she met with Al Sharpton recently earlier today. She panders to that audience, like this example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Nobody told me that the road would be easy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: So after Iowa and New Hampshire, she's a super socialist, more socialist than Bernie. She goes before a predominantly black audience and changes her tone, her cadence.
CROWLEY: The most effective politicians are those who have a lot of emotional intelligence. I'm not talking I.Q., they're talking E.Q. And they know how to calibrate their emotional responses in victory, in defeat, talking to different constituencies. Hillary Clinton seems to be missing that chip in her brain. Either she doesn't have the emotional intelligence or she hyper-reacts or underreacts. And so you get this kind of response from the audience where they don't know how to respond to her.
HANNITY: That is the most intelligent analysis I think that I have heard about her, honestly.
CROWLEY: Thank you, Sean.
WILLIAMS: I'm not too far from Monica on this, but I will say I have this difference. I'm very careful with her as a woman candidate. When you have others, and it's not rare in American politics to see somebody go before an Irish crowd or a Jewish crowd and pick up the tone, the dialect --
HANNITY: We see the Irish in you, Juan, my people.
WILLIAMS: I think Hillary --
HANNITY: What's an Irish seven-course meal?
WILLIAMS: You tell me.
HANNITY: A six-pack and a potato.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Politicians know how to blame this game.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me finish on Monica's point. I think Monica's is on to something when she says Hillary doesn't seem to have the E.Q., emotional intelligence, of a great candidate that can fire up, and in Hillary's case, fire up young Democrats who are, I know you two are going to hate it, much more aligned with socialism and liberalism than even Hillary Clinton who is middle of the road to them and establishment.
HANNITY: Wait until they start working and see that 50 percent to 60 percent of their paycheck is taken by government.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second, how does -- wait. You know, I can't even make sense of this. A minute ago you're attacking middle of the road Hillary as old --
HANNITY: She's now moving to the --
WILLIAMS: Now you're after Bernie. Bernie is the one that would take your money.
HANNITY: So will Hillary. She's trying to out-Bernie Bernie.
CROWLEY: Bernie is speaking the language of the millennials, right. He talks about income inequality. He's got this hopeful message. We know it's all, you know, B.S. But the kids listen to it. Hillary doesn't have that message. She has no compelling reason for her candidacy beyond I am a woman and it's my turn.
WILLIAMS: She can beat the Republicans.
CROWLEY: They don't care about that.
WILLIAMS: She can beat the Republicans.
CROWLEY: They don't think so.
HANNITY: In black and white stripes and shoes without laces or in an orange jumpsuit. All right, we've got to go.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: Orange is the new black, Sean.
HANNITY: If I could make Juan laugh, I'm doing pretty good.
WILLIAMS: That was pretty good.
HANNITY: And coming up, we need your help. A very important "Question of the Day." That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Time for our very important "Question of the Day." Should Republicans block President Obama's Supreme Court nominee? Absolutely, they should. He's done enough damage to the country. Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter. You know what the big question here is? Will the Republicans have the backbone to hold the line? It's make-or-break time for them. We'll see.
That's all the time we have left this evening. As always, thank you for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
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