This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," January 29, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight. Dramatic new developments in the e-mail scandal looming over Hillary Clinton's campaign for the White House. As the State Department reveals there are nearly two dozen e-mails from Mrs. Clinton's personal server containing information so secret they can never see the light of day, even if in redacted form.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. This comes as the State Department releases scores of other previously undisclosed e-mails and it comes less than 72 hours before the first in the nation Iowa caucuses. The Clinton campaign was quick to call this a class of over classification, telling the State Department, go ahead and release the e-mails. But when confronted with the campaign statement, the State Department refused to even discuss it, saying the e-mail classification is being held at the request of the intelligence community. In moments, we will get reaction from former Bush White House Press Secretary Dana Perino as well as Clinton supporter Robert Zimmerman.
But we begin our coverage tonight with our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge reporting from Washington. Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, CNN CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Megyn. The latest batch of Clinton e-mails brings the number to more than 1500 containing classified information. This e-mail released just hours ago has intelligence from three different agencies. Earlier today, Fox News was first to report that some of the Clinton e-mails are too damaging to release, even with entire sections blacked out. They include 22 top secret e-mails, some containing intelligence from special access programs that are considered beyond top secret, as well as intelligence from human spine.
The State Department is also withholding 18 e-mails between Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton. According to the Intelligence Agencies, the information was top secret when it was sent and it hit the Clinton server. It was not upgraded after the fact. Fox News pressed the State Department spokesman today on why they refuse to accept the facts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The group that has final say on the classification when it hit that server is the agency who got that information, not the state department.
JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: What I'm saying is, we work closely with the intelligence community. And at their request, we have upgraded this information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not answering the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Fox News has also told the Intelligence Agencies are operating on the assumption that the server was compromised and there are more copies of the Clinton e-mails out there and even releasing a partial e-mail could provide enough clues to lead back to the original document exposing government secrets. At the White House today, our colleague Kevin Corke asked if the FBI investigation is firmly focused on the former Secretary of State.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN CORKE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Can you say with certainty and confidence that Secretary Clinton will not be indicted because of this e-mail scandal?
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That will be a decision that is made by the Department of Justice and prosecutors over there. What I know that some officials over there have said is that she is not a target of the investigation. So, that does not seem to be the direction that it's trending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: That claim did not sit well with our contacts with the Justice Department and the FBI, who emphasized that Josh Earnest has no direct knowledge of the FBI investigation and given what the President has said in the past about the case, it does look like a pattern of political interference -- Megyn.
KELLY: Hmm. Catherine, thank you very much.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
KELLY: Even before this news broke, Mark Halperin, the political reporter from Bloomberg News, got a lot of attention for his reporting on the attention this is now getting over at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HALPERIN, BLOOMBERG: There are some people in the White House that are starting to talk about this, it's not clear to me whether they know what's happening or just their intuition, but the body language among some Obama administration officials is, this is more serious and something is going to happen. Again, the timing of it could be, if not cataclysmic, pretty bad for Secretary Clinton if Senator Sanders is still alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Dana Perino is co-host of "The Five" right here on FNC. And former White House press secretary under President George W. Bush. Dana, good to see you. She's live in Iowa where --
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": Thanks for having me.
KELLY: All right. So I don't know about the body language of the people at the White House being the best indicator of what's going to happen here, but Catherine's reporting is real. And troublesome. Your thoughts?
PERINO: Well, I have a couple of them. One, Hillary Clinton's campaign came out and said, they want all the documents to be released. Well, first of all, they're in this position because of her error of judgment. They also know that -- her asking the State Department to release classified information is a way for her to hide, because she knows that they can't release the classified documents unless one thing happens, Megyn, there is a person who has the power to release all the documents, and that is President Barack Obama. He holds the power to declassify. And so if Hillary Clinton is right, and if the White House decides to help the FBI investigation along and put its thumb on the scale of justice for Hillary Clinton, then he can release all the documents that she just asked him to release, she could do it tonight.
PERINO: But I bet he won't.
KELLY: Because Catherine is reporting that some of these documents have human spying intelligence in them. I mean, why would we -- why would we release those?
PERINO: That's right. And the other thing I would say, I think that Josh Earnest at the White House could do a little better job of protecting himself. I think the one thing he's trying to do is walk this fine line to respect the Justice Department investigation, the FBI investigation and not try to show any interference from the White House. He also wants to protect the President, and I know -- we know from their statements and because it's just politics, they want to help Hillary Clinton become the next president of the United States.
PERINO: However, if this investigation grows, who do you think the first people are that the FBI comes and asks questions of next? It's the staff. And you don't want to put yourself in that position. I always thought it would be better for them to just have a firewall and say, we are not commenting on this investigation at all from the White House. You're going to have to call the campaign, call the FBI, and protect yourself and the President in that manner. It would be much better for everybody involved. Maybe not for Hillary, but that should not be their concern right now.
KELLY: Uh-hm. In the meantime, the Hillary Clinton campaign is going to have to deal with that sound bite that we have now seen. There are many, this is just one example. She's wearing the black and white, you know, striped shirt, unfortunate choice given what she was saying. Watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am confident that I never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received. I did not send nor receive anything that was classified at the time. I did not receive nor send anything that was classified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: It's just -- I mean, it is not true.
PERINO: It is not true. Not only that, remember that President Obama on "60 Minutes" about six weeks ago said there was no national security information that was compromised at all in any of Hillary Clinton's e-mails. And I would just submit to them that they don't know that. And in saying that, they're basically suggesting that everybody that is part of the investigation that is trying to do their job and not make this a public spectacle is lying, as well.
PERINO: And so there's a respect issue going on in terms of the trust from the White House. Look, the White House -- the guys that are there for political are going to be in eight months. The classified community is going to be there a lot longer.
KELLY: Dana, great to see you.
PERINO: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Joining us now with more, Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic National Committee member from New York, a Clinton supporter and co-founder of Zimmerman/Edelson public relations.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Great to be with you.
KELLY: What do you make of all that?
ZIMMERMAN: Dana hasn't lost her touch of residing partisan talking points
KELLY: How does she get out of the black and white striped sound bite? I did not send and receive classified information.
ZIMMERMAN: Because the facts holed up that she never sent or received anything that was marked classified. And the most resent --
KELLY: She didn't say marked there.
ZIMMERMAN: She said, but that's obviously what she meant and what she said repeatedly.
KELLY: OK. But let's just walk through it together. Because what the experts say is, if you're secretary of state, it doesn't matter if it's marked classified. If you get information on human spying, you're supposed to have the judgment to understand that this is a classified document. You know that this is, you're getting in trouble in government if you don't understand that, much less if you're the secretary of state.
ZIMMERMAN: Megyn, let's also understand what the experts say. The documents have to have certain guaranteed markings that indicate they're classified information.
KELLY: But it doesn't mean they're unclassified if they don't have those.
ZIMMERMAN: Let's understand the reality here. Just back in November, the director of National Intelligence James Clapper overturned his inspector general who claimed some of the Clinton e-mails were top secret when in fact he determined they were not. This is about --
KELLY: Your point is just because they're saying, the Intel community is saying, this is classified and top secret, doesn't make it so?
ZIMMERMAN: It's a back and forth debate. Let's remember, John Bolton, one of the most arch Republican conservatives in the Bush White House are UN ambassador. Our ambassador to the United Nations said, there is no rational strategy to engaging, there is no rational approach to the classification of our documents. But everything Hillary Clinton has said about how she's handled her e-mails and about the documents that she has received and sent has proven to be accurate and correct.
KELLY: No, in that sound bite, there is no classified material, that is false. You admit that?
ZIMMERMAN: First of all, she said and let's be serious about this, she said she has sent and received nothing has been marked classified. And that is the point.
KELLY: She did not say -- Richard --
KELLY: Robert, we saw the sound bite. First of all, at the first presser she had at the U.N., she said there is no classified material. That is what she said, there is not.
ZIMMERMAN: This is not a got you game, Megyn. We're talking about facts.
KELLY: Then she added -- none was ever sent or received, then she said none was ever sent or received that was marked.
ZIMMERMAN: Megyn, but the facts remained. That how you determine what is classified is by the markings that are required --
KELLY: No. That's not true.
ZIMMERMAN: And that's exactly correct.
ZIMMERMAN: Dianne Feinstein, who actually saw these e-mails in question tonight, said they had none of the markings that would indicate classified information. And that's what is critical here.
KELLY: First of all, they stripped some of the markings off of them. Mrs. Clinton -- that's already been reported. But second of all -- the content of the document determines whether it's classified, not the markings.
ZIMMERMAN: But the evaluation whether they are classified is by the different authorities that oversee them. These emails --
KELLY: She was secretary of state. She's supposed to have an understanding of that.
ZIMMERMAN: These emails came from a career government officials. They weren't originated by Hillary Clinton and they went back and forth in the e-mail chain. Let's remember, some of these so-called classified documents you're talking about are newspaper articles that were sent around.
KELLY: Understood. But others talk about human spying which is a problem.
ZIMMERMAN: Not partisan rhetoric. I'm not taking it personally. And you've done well. Congratulations on last night's debate.
KELLY: Thank you very much. Good to see you.
ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you.
KELLY: Well, even though the story broke late today, Governor Chris Christie is already out tonight with the hard hitting campaign ad on it accusing Mrs. Clinton of lying to the American people. The New Jersey governor will join us in just moments. That's fast, right?
Plus, Glenn Beck is next on the big story developing in Iowa where Senator Cruz took -- with his campaign launched a dramatic change of course today.
And we sent Senator Marco Rubio inside the lion's den. Look at this. He meets with the Frank Luntz focus group. What happened? We'll show you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are the only candidate I think that has reached across the aisle. And if we can't get somebody in charge that wants to put all the games aside and reach out to both sides, both parties, we're never going to get anywhere. You are my last best hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight. A big new twist in the Iowa caucus battle just hours after the close of the FOX News GOP debate. The campaign of Senator Ted Cruz just signaled a possible shift in strategy, moving almost all of his negative advertising from Donald Trump to Marco Rubio for the final three days before the caucuses. Here's a sample of what is now blanketing the airwaves in Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am not and I will never support, never have and never will support any of them to blanket legalization amnesty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marco Rubio was part of the gang of eight trying to secure amnesty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the architects of the plan, Senator Marco Rubio. You are giving legal status to people who have broken the law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marco Rubio that was a member of the gang of eight and Ted Cruz that wasn't.
KELLY: Glenn Beck is with me now. He's founder of TheBlaze and the number one New York Times bestselling author of "The Immortal Nicholas" and he's endorsed Senator Cruz. Why are you making that sound?
GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, my gosh, I just can't take this anymore. I just can't take it. You know, we are an under informed electorate and you're allowed to just lie and lie and lie on stage. I watched your interview last night after the debate with Ted Cruz, where you said, you know, look, I've gone through your record here and I believe that you're telling the truth on this.
BECK: And so few people do that. And so it's sound bite city and they are turning everything upside down. It is incredible.
KELLY: But that was a Cruz at hitting Rubio for, you know, once supporting, of course saying, he wouldn't support amnesty and then doing so.
BECK: Right. What kills me is, Rubio is basically saying how dare you do what -- basically what I did. And he's turning his record upside down and inside out, when Cruz is very clear. The one thing you can say about Ted Cruz is he is consistent.
BECK: Why do they say nobody in the establishment likes him? Because he's consistent. He does exactly what he says he's going to do, and he doesn't waver from that. That's why they hit him.
KELLY: Well, that's why I said, I went back and I mean, I did take a deep dive, much deeper than I ever cared to do quite frankly, and Senator Cruz's position on immigration and that whole amendment he tried in.
KELLY: You know, I was open minded. What are the facts? Did he support legalization and now he's trying to back off of it? Because then that's where I'll go with my question or was it a poison pill and all the rhetoric around it was acting. And if so, that's where I go with my question. Or was it a poison and all the rhetoric around it was acting? And if so, that's where I go with my question. And then I think the record is pretty clear. Just ask Chuck Schumer. Ted Cruz did not want legalization or amnesty to pass.
BECK: No, he was -- what he was doing was saying look, oh, Chuck, oh, Marco? Really, you don't want citizenship? Oh, OK. So that bill, there's no citizenship in it? No, it doesn't Ted, OK, great, I'm going to write a 38-word amendment, I'm going to tack that in there so it's crystal clear. As soon as he did that, they wanted nothing to do that.
KELLY: Right. Because they were saying it's not all about citizenship. They were saying, it's not all about and he said, OK, fine, let's take citizenship out and see if they will pass the bill and they wouldn't.
BECK: Right. Exactly right.
KELLY: But, you know, the point I was trying to make, you kind of act it a lot when you were selling it which is why the videotape was so compelling. Let me ask you, The Des Moines Register was very hard on Ted Cruz today and put up a blaring headline. They endorsed Rubio so they like him, saying "Rough night for Cruz," and now Cruz is coming out today with these attack ads on Marco Rubio calling Rubio the Republican Obama. And I don't think he means it in a good way. So what do you make of this, you know, of how Cruz did and how it now seems to be Cruz and Rubio vying in Iowa?
BECK: I don't think Ted Cruz had his best night ever. But, I mean, everybody -- look, there's nobody in the media that wants Ted Cruz. And there's nobody in the establishment that wants Ted Cruz.
BECK: He has the arrow on his back, the bull's-eye on his forehead. So, you know, he's coming under attack from everybody. I thought he had a good night, he just didn't have a great night. Rubio is a very good, dynamic speaker. But what Rubio lacks is, while he's strong on defense, Cruz is principled on defense. Marco Rubio, and I'm telling you, I'm very concerned about the security of the constitution of the United States. And Marco has said to me several times, I've had private conversations and conversations on the air, Marco, the constitution says you cannot do that. And he's told me, I understand that, Glenn. But I've got to do what I've got to do to protect the American people. And there's a lot of people that will trade their freedom for their security. I'm not one of them.
KELLY: Uh-hm. That was actually one of the reasons why I asked Marco Rubio about, you know, his call to shut down diners or mosques where radicalization is occurring. And radicalization, none of us wants that, I get that. But it's not illegal to believe as the radical Muslims believe.
KELLY: What's illegal is then to turn it into terrorist acts. You can't just shut down a diner because Muslims are being radicalized in it under the First Amendment.
BECK: People say they want to restore America to her greatness. If we don't restore her principles, we will never be great. There is nothing to America besides our principles, and we have lost them. And I'll tell you, there's too many of these things. Megyn, you know, when I was on Fox, we talked about a lot of things and I was mocked for a lot of things. I went back today and looked through some old political cartoons mocking me on the things that I had on the chalk board. It's all beginning to happen. You look at Trump supporters, and they're dehumanizing people. Donald Trump is doing it.
They're dehumanizing anybody who stands against them. They're fat, they're pigs, they're losers, they're crybabies, whatever they are. And when he talks about women, as you know, it's even worse. When you dehumanize people, you head for massive, massive trouble. Where is the press speaking out about the dehumanization of people by Donald Trump? All we heard, all we heard about the Tea Party is, how this rhetoric is going to lead to violence. I'm telling you, when you dehumanize people, you are one step away from the jungle.
KELLY: Later in the show, Glenn shares a blast from the past you won't believe. Oh, do we have a picture for you.
But first, Marco Rubio goes one on one with some of the folks voting in Iowa on Monday and you'll see how his entry into the Frank Luntz lion's den went, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER: How many of you walked in here supporting Marco Rubio, raise your hands. One, two, three of you. How many of you are going home, most likely to vote for Rubio, raise your hands. That's the impact of a single debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, less than 24 hours after a big debate, Senator Marco Rubio held a rally in Dubuque a couple of hours ago, attracting perhaps his biggest crowd yet in the state of Iowa. Senator Rubio got high marks for his performance in the debate, with the Daily Caller writing, quote, "Rubio wins final debate before Iowa caucuses while Cruz flubs it." National Journal wrote, quote, "Rubio makes the most of his final debate opportunity." And the Fiscal Times wrote, quote, "Cruz and Rubio dominate
the last debate as stand-ins for Trump." Right after that debate ended, Senator Rubio met with Frank Luntz and his focus group. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUNTZ: What do they need to know about you, your lives, your experiences?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, the thing that we love about Iowa, what I love about Iowa is the fact that it's a simple way of life. You can make it as difficult as you want, but we're not city people. Rush hour is about five minutes, and we do care about our fellow Iowans deeply, and we also really, really are a very strong about education.
LUNTZ: In the back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iowa is a strong constitutional state and we want the government off our lands, out of our state and just to leave us alone and live.
LUNTZ: One more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it relates to the political process, we take this very seriously. I mean, every conversation all day long is always about politics, and it's on both sides of the aisle. And I mean, it's a true great representation of the entire nation on both sides.
RUBIO: Yes. Absolutely.
LUNTZ: So, what should they know about you that they wouldn't know?
RUBIO: Well, first of all, my view is, that's not just Iowa, that's most of this country. On the issue that you've talked about the federal government and the constitution. The constitution is a document of the limitation. We have got -- I do a lot of town halls now. People are always asking, when you are president, what are you going to do about this? Often times the answer is, that's not the federal government's job. Sometimes it's not even the government's job. We have to get back to realizing there are a lot of problems in America that the government cannot fix.
We have to fix it as a people and as a community. And as far as the process, I love this process, I really do. I'm so impressed every day by the questions I get at these town halls. I mean, these are people who just got off work and are asking me about detailed public policy concerns. So I know that Iowa is paying attention. And I really enjoyed it. It's made me a better candidate, it's going to make me a better president.
LUNTZ: So, watch this. How many of you walked in here supporting Marco Rubio? You walked in at the beginning. Three of you. How many of you are going to walk out of here supporting Marco Rubio, raise your hands. That's good. That's good debate.
RUBIO: Give me another ten minutes and maybe I can get more of them. I'm looking for the ones that didn't raise their hands. We'll wait for you outside.
LUNTZ: What is the greatest challenge facing the country today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Entitlement reform.
LUNTZ: What do you mean by that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, interest on the debt. You can buy them altogether. They're going to eat up everything else on the budget.
LUNTZ: What's the greatest challenge?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Faltering economy.
LUNTZ: And again, explain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jobs that we have are not paying as well as they were in the past, and people are still struggling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Restoring our family structure. It wasn't discussed but you know, it's something that I think is very important, because families are really the fabric of our country.
LUNTZ: So, are these the role of Washington, is this the role of the next
RUBIO: The debt is most certainly, because the debt is the federal debt. And you're right, 70 percent of our budget is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the interest on the debt. If we don't do anything, we have a guaranteed debt crisis. On the issue of the family, that's critical. I mean, the family is the backbone of society. Government can't make stronger families. OK. I can't pass a law that makes someone a better father, mother, husband or wife. But we shouldn't have any policies that undermine the family. And the jobs not paying much, absolutely. That is the fundamental issue. When Obama says, we're creating all these new jobs, they do not pay enough. And one of the reasons is, we have to make America the best place in the world, to create the best jobs of the 21st Century, we have to make it easier for people to acquire those skills.
LUNTZ: Is the American dream still alive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Absolutely.
LUNTZ: You're nodding your head no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think one thing that's frustrating is that we the people did elect Republicans to the Congress and the Senate and we expected something different to happen. And nothing different has happened.
LUNTZ: You guys agree with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to know what our leader that we are going to elect is going to do something to change that.
RUBIO: And that's exactly why I'm running. I've only been in the Senate five years. You think it's tough that I have to work with these people. OK. There's no urgency. The whole immediate reaction is, once they're get elected, what do we have to do for two years, to get re-elected and grow a majority. We don't have time for that anymore. 2016 will be a turning point. We will either be greater than we've ever been or our kids are going to be the first Americans that are inherited them in this country. The time to act is now.
LUNTZ: Senator Marco Rubio. Thank you.
RUBIO: Thanks, Frank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: It's fun watching the candidates with Frank's group, right? We did that with Senator Cruz, and now Senator Rubio. It's just a dynamic exchange when you see them taking the questions. We have more on our top story about the dramatic new developments in the e-mail scandal looming over Hillary Clinton's campaign, as New Jersey Governor Chris Christie comes out and accuses Mrs. Clinton of flat out lying to America. He's next.
Plus, with a little less than 72 hours to go until the first Iowa caucus results. What is happening with the last-minute polls? Stirewalt and Lowry are here. They've got the data.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We just heard today that 22 of the e-mails from her e-mail server, the State Department now refuses to release them because they said they contained top secret information. Now, didn't she look us in the eye and tell us that there was not a bit of classified information on her personal server? She has now definitively, without any question, lied to us.
And we watched her in Iowa the other night at that town hall meeting, right? She got asked by an Iowan about her e-mail thing and what did she say? And I talked about this last night. She said she did it for her own convenience. She put the national security at risk for her convenience. She put the lives of intelligence officers at risk for her convenience. She put the security of her homeland at risk for her convenience. That should disqualify you from being president of the United States. That should end the conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Back now to our top story. That was a brand new ad just released from Governor -- New Jersey Governor Chris Christie after we got reports just hours ago that investigators found a number of e-mails on Mrs. Clinton's private home server that were so classified, so sensitive that they cannot be released to the public as earlier promised.
Joining me now, the man whose campaign is behind that ad, Governor Chris Christie. Great to see you, Governor. Thank you for being here. So, now we learned that there are seven e-mail change -- chains, 22 plus pages of top secret information. But what she is saying, and has said for a while now, is they were not marked classified. First, it was they aren't classified then she moved to, they -- they -- they weren't marked classified. So, how do you say she's a liar? I mean, if they're -- if they're not marked classified, how would she know they are?
CHRISTIE: You know, because she's the secretary of state of the United States, and if (ph) she can't read something and recognize that she's reading highly sensitive information then she doesn't belong on the job in the first place. Let's remember some of her previous e-mails, Megyn, where she's requested that people take headers off that marked -- that they were marked classified, and then fax them over unsecure faxes. I mean, this -- this is an absolute house of cards that is coming down around Hillary Clinton's body right now.
KELLY: So, you and Governor Kasich, switching back to your Republican opponents are in a bit of a dust-up now because Iowa is on Monday but then the next week you have New Hampshire. Both of you are running strong in New Hampshire. You just got the endorsement of the "Boston Herald," and he has gotten several other endorsements. He came out today, you're hitting him, and he's hitting you. He came out today and put your records side by side and he said look at the facts.
He said, in his state, he has a 62 percent record high home state approval rating. In New Jersey, he said you have a 33 percent record low approval rating. He says he created a $2 billion stimulus bond rating -- stimulus and a bond rating near the national average. He says, New Jersey's credit rating was downgraded a record nine -- nine times, the nation's second worst. Does he -- does he have a point?
CHRISTIE: No. He doesn't have a point. And John uses some old statistics from years ago and that's OK, because he wants to win, he wants to mischaracterize my record. But in 2015, Megyn, we created more private sector jobs in New Jersey than the state has created in over 15 years. We -- we took care of the Pension and Benefit Program in our state, saving $120 billion over the next 30 years for the taxpayers. We balanced six budgets in a row, and unlike Governor Kasich, I have never proposed to raise taxes in our state. He proposed to raise taxes over $5 billion.
And so, you know, listen, he wants to talk about his record, talk about his own record. That's fine. He doesn't need to talk about mine, but if he does talk about mine, I will certainly talk about his. He's got a lot of other issues that he needs to take care of. He should probably go back to Ohio and deal with the issues that he needs to deal with that he probably should have talked about at the debate last night when he was talking about Governor Snyder.
KELLY: You received high marks once again for your debate before him last night from the right and the left. Some saying that it was your night, and in fact, I read that from a left leaning -- considerably left, I think a columnist, a Media Simon Christopher (ph) who said you were the only candidate to emerge unscathed (ph) for the evening. But now, Iowa is just a couple of days away. Where do you need to place do you think on the Iowa -- on the Iowa leader board on Monday night and then in New Hampshire the following week to continue on?
CHRISTIE: Listen, I'd like to be the number one governor in Iowa. We're going to be competing with Governor Bush out there to be the number one governor in Iowa, and I hope we get there. And then in New Hampshire, I definitively want to be the number one governor. So, those are our goals for both Iowa and New Hampshire and I think we reach those goals, but it's going to be a lot of hard work.
This race is a jumble right now. No one knows what is going to happen. And we're going to make sure we go and work as hard as we can. I'm getting ready when -- tonight to do my fourth town hall of the day here in Iowa. We're working incredibly hard; we'll be here through Monday.
CHRISTIE: . and then we'll go back to New Hampshire. We'll work all week to next week.
KELLY: I got to go, but in the right or left, how did you think it went last night, what did you think of the debate?
CHRISTIE: I thought the debate went very, very well. I thought it was very substantive. I think you saw the real difference between what it's like to be a governor who makes decisions and what it means to be a United States senator. So, hear things, see things that you put up on a TV screen and tell the American people that what they just heard wasn't true. Only in Washington, D.C., Megyn, only in Washington.
KELLY: The Washington-to-English dictionary thing is going to stick. That was a pretty good line. Great to see you, Governor, as always.
CHRISTIE: Thank you. Thanks for having me on, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, our next guest is coming under heavy fire right now. From a group supporting Governor Christie, but Governor John Kasich's campaign says, attacks after a rise in the polls are a good problem to have. Joining me now, Republican Presidential Candidate and Ohio Governor John Kasich. Governor, great to see you. So, first, what did you think of the debate?
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good debate, Megyn. I enjoyed it very much.
KELLY: Good. Well, we enjoyed having you. We were glad you were there. So, what did you think of Governor Christie's attack on you right there saying, well, he's actually got a campaign up .
KASICH: I didn't really -- yeah.
KELLY: . you look to the hand (ph).
KASICH: I -- I actually, yeah. No, I actually -- the only thing I heard was, this is something they say about my record that I've raised taxes by $5 billion. I don't know what they're talking about. Look, Megyn, in my state, I've cut taxes by $5 billion, more than any governor in the country. Our budget is balanced. It's balanced structurally. We're running a $2 billion surplus.
We have grown over 400,000 jobs. And our credit is very strong. We've never been downgraded, and our pensions are secure. Now, in addition to that, of course, we also help people who live in the shadows, and whether they're the mentally ill, they're drug addicted, the working poor, and my approach in the state has been to grow the economy, which has always been my number one purpose.
KASICH: . in public life, help create an environment .
KELLY: What is it like to have a $2 billion surplus?
KASICH: . for job growth.
KELLY: As it's like, most states in here (ph), can't understand that.
KASICH: Well, right .
KELLY: That must be pretty nice.
KASICH: Well, I started with -- well, I started with an $8 billion hole, 20 percent of my budget was in the hole and now we've got a surplus. So, look, here's the thing, Megyn, what we got to focus on and so I don't listen to all this -- the noise that's out here. This country has to pull itself together. We have to be Americans before we're Republicans and Democrats. And we're developing, as I pointed out last night, a national security problem when we can't fix anything.
KASICH: We can't fix the border. We haven't been able to fix Social Security.
KASICH: We can't balance the budget. All those things can be done. There's only one - there are really simple solutions. The only thing that stands in the way are people who put their party before the good of the country, and all of my career, I've been able to pull Republicans and Democrats together to get things done, including balancing the federal budget with.
KELLY: Do you feel like we were trying to get -- we were trying to get this
KASICH: . then create jobs.
KELLY: . without (ph) this last night. Do you feel like the party, the GOP is moving like one faction of it so far to the right where they say, You know, sure got it -- the Cruz folks who are like, no compromise, we're sick in compromise and then you got like the Trump folks, they were like, blow up the whole system.
KASICH: Yeah. Well, Megyn, look, you know, one of the national reporters said something about me, and they said there's an establishment lane and anti-establishment lane and a Kasich lane. So, you know, I'm not trying to compete against any other candidate. I'm just trying to win every vote that I can by letting people see me, letting them hear me and letting them understand who John Kasich is.
I've been a uniter all of my career, a conservative who unites people and gets things done. And you know, I always talk about this old record, you know, like balancing the federal budget, which people have a hard time believing, but we did it, you know, and also what I've done in Ohio and what I want to take to the country. But you see, I think when politician's lips move today, people don't believe them.
KASICH: And so, I like to talk about my record and I like to talk about my resume, so people can understand that what I'm saying now is something I've already done not something that's, you know, just some promise that I'm making, although I am promising .
KELLY: Got it.
KASICH: . a chicken in every -- I am promising a chicken in every pot.
KELLY: Excellent. I - I love chicken. It's the -- it's a lean protein. It's excellent. I have it several times a day. It's great to see you, Governor Kasich.
KASICH: All right, Megyn, thank you.
KELLY: And I should .
KASICH: You did a great job last night. The whole team did.
KELLY: Thank you very much. And I should mention that governor Kasich has the endorsement of seven papers in the area of New Hampshire. He's a -- he's a favorite there for sure and in second place right now -- right now, according to the latest polls, 12.5 percent.
OK. So, less than 72 hours to go until the first Iowa results. We're almost there. And Stirewalt and Lowry are next on how much can change before the votes are cast and then the fascinating story behind this picture.
KELLY: Well, there's now -- now less than 72 hours until the first vote results in the race for the White House, and even in that short amount of time, the political pros tell us a lot can change in a state like Iowa. Chris Stirewalt is our Fox News Digital Politics editor and Rich Lowry is editor at National Review and a Fox News contributor.
Hi, guys. So, Chris, you say the race is going to be decided this weekend.
CHRIS STIREWALT; FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Hi, Megyn. I hate to inform the voters of America, but we have substantially ripped them off for the last year, talking about all of the things that are going to happen because what happened in the debate on Thursday, put the race all kablooey and it scrambled everything. The front-runner skipped. The second place guy fought with everybody. The third place guy showed Mojo, sleeping giant -- not giants, but sleepers awoke. And all the stuff happened. And plus, you know what Iowa likes to do?
STIREWALT: Confound everybody's expectations in the last 72 hours of the race. That's what they do, and they're going to do it again.
KELLY: It's so funny because there's an elevator behind you going up and down. Oh, no, it's doing down, Rich. It looks like a beautiful sparkly necklace is coming down from above.
RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Keep us posted, Megyn, about the elevator.
KELLY: You should see. Oh, it's actually - all I can look at. I'm -- I'm tired.
LOWRY: That sounds very compelling from Chris and you're just -- you're just focused on.
STIREWALT: Focus on me (ph).
LOWRY: . the elevator.
STIREWALT: That -- that's happened .
LOWRY: You're learning about .
STIREWALT: . that is how good the commentary .
LOWRY: . the future of a Republican .
STIREWALT: . was.
LOWRY: . here. It's going to be decided Monday night.
... and you're looking at the elevator?
KELLY: It's very sparkly.
STIREWALT: Really (ph).
KELLY: All right. Let me ask you, too, Rich, what you think is it a lot of buzz going on about Marco Rubio? What do you think about the fact that Cruz has moved his attack ads from Trump?
LOWRY: So .
KELLY: He's going to hit Trump for the last few days to Rubio.
LOWRY: Yeah. Well, there's been a buzz about a Marco Rubio surge, and this is an indication that at least the Cruz team believes it. Because you don't spend precious resources, like three days before the caucus, attacking someone who is not moving. So, that shows the Cruz people think he is moving, and the Rubio people all along have been playing this expectations game where they have down played expectations everywhere.
Two days ago, I was talking to some Rubio strategists. So, it was like, "You know, I think you guys could finish 20 here." Like, "Oh, it will never happen." You know, meteor strike is more likely and then a day later, the NBC poll comes out and showing them at 18. So, there's a significant chance that Rubio over-performs here, which would be all the more incredible, given the right to rise money that's been dumped on him .
KELLY: Oh, Jeb Bush could attack.
LOWRY: . millions, millions of dollars, and now that the Cruz negative ads.
KELLY: Trying to cut him at the knee. There it goes Chris Stirewalt's pretty little sparkly necklace. OK. Stirewalt, let me ask you this because the-
Iowa -- the Iowa race as you say it's crazy, right? It's chaotic. You never know.
KELLY: Let me show the viewers what happened in 2012, at this exact point, the Friday before -- three days before the caucuses. So, there it is right there. Romney had 24 percent, was leading. Ryan Paul is at 22 percent in the number two position, and there Rick Santorum the eventual leader was at 15 percent, nine points behind the front-runner. He wound up being the winner. And we'll show -- we'll show the .
STIREWALT: Accurate and.
KELLY: . viewers how the board looks today now, next. Go ahead, Chris.
STIREWALT: Well, my only point would be, Rick Santorum was at 15 three days before. He was at about 5, 10 days before that. So, he had been dormant and then he started moving. The thing in Iowa is this. Ted Cruz is built for Iowa. He has built an Iowa campaign. He has made outreach each to Iowa voters, especially evangelicals and some libertarians, but mostly evangelicals, his focus, and he has hit it hard, and he has -- there has been no shame in his game as he drops j-bombs with alacrity. Then .
KELLY: J-bomb .
STIREWALT: . you have Marco -- then -- then you have -- well, they don't know who did it, right?
STIREWALT: So, then you have Marco Rubio, who has been back, back, back and sort of back not in the rest of the pack. He starts to get some traction at this point. Here's the deal, if Donald Trump hurt himself substantially, we don't know how much he hurt himself. He did wrong. If he hurt himself substantially, there's a lot of votes available, maybe Rubio can gobble some up.
KELLY: Last question for you, Rich.
LOWRY: And it did .
KELLY: Yeah, ahead.
LOWRY: . yes. Well, this is an existential state potentially for Ted Cruz. He's arguably has run -- been running in the Iowa caucuses for five years since he got into the Senate primary, knowing that once he got into the Senate, he'd run and a key to his campaign would be right here. And he hasn't been lowering expectations at all of here.
A couple of weeks ago, he said it was a lock. It really hurt to finish third. It'd be devastating -- sorry. Hurt to finish second. Devastating to finish third.
KELLY: Well, Senator -- Governor Christie now says, he wants to be the number one governor in the placement in Iowa and in New Hampshire.
LOWRY: There's Governor Lane (ph).
KELLY: . so as everybody sort of narrows it down.
LOWRY: No, no. There's a northeastern.
STIREWALT: It starts with an "N."
LOWRY: Yeah. Northeastern on Governor Lane (ph).
STIREWALT: That guy (ph).
KELLY: I can see you guys.
LOWRY: He wants to dominate that.
KELLY: I got to go. The picture we are about the show you may be one of the best things you see all day and the story behind it is told to you by Glenn Beck next.
KELLY: Well, an incredible blast from the past tonight courtesy of Glenn Beck who must have been on some seriously bad medicine when they snapped this picture of a nearly unrecognizable Glenn with Rock `n' Roll legend Jon Bon Jovi. There were many great things that I saw today, many great things where that people generally seemed to like the Fox News debate. The three moderators felt great about that. Our -- our Fox -- our team at Fox felt great about that and just when I thought, you know, I'm feeling .
GLENN BECK, CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOST: I do.
KELLY: . I'm feeling good. Somebody sent me this, and I said, "I didn't know what feeling good it was until I saw this picture." Look -- can anyone find .
BECK: Go there (ph) .
KELLY: . Glenn Beck in this photo? How -- all the crew is coming now. How did this occur? You may recognize the man in the middle. He's familiar to some. Why don't you tell to the viewers who that is?
BECK: I need to tell that ..
KELLY: Yes. Tell them who you are with.
BECK: That's Bon Jovi much to his shame and much to my shame, that's Bon Jovi.
KELLY: How did this happen?
BECK: So .
KELLY: And what is with the hair?
BECK: I would like -- I would like to say, Megyn, that those are my drinking days but that was three year past my drinking days.
Yes. That was my -- I mean, God bless my wife. You know she much -- she -- I was poor. I had a mullet. I mean, what happened to her? How did her life go so wrong?
KELLY: But -- but a great sense of fashion. I'll say that. How did he .
BECK: Well, thank you.
KELLY: . you know, Bon Jovi? Are you guys pals?
BECK: No. I was -- that's when I was doing, you know, morning radio and so I've got lots of really embarrassing pictures with me with very famous singers and it's not good.
KELLY: You know, does it -- I -- I see this is maybe an inspiration, because since that moment, you've gotten more svelte. Your -- your hair has gotten hipper and, you know, your -- your .
KELLY: . your -- your clothing has got a lot cooler.
BECK: Megyn .
KELLY: Maybe this is your turn around. This is your a-ha moment meeting Jon Bon Jovi.
BECK: Yeah. Yeah. Megyn, unlike you, there's -- there was really no place for me to go than up.
So -- so .
KELLY: You're being too hard on yourself.
BECK: . you're really -- I mean, you can't -- you can't wreck that look any more than I did.
KELLY: Let's see it, again. Let's see what was -- oh, I so enjoy it. It's awesome.
BECK: Oh, that's great.
KELLY: Glenn, thank you for sharing that with us.
BECK: Yeah, thank you for that.
KELLY: And thank you .
BECK: Thank you.
KELLY: . for being with us tonight.
BECK: You bet.
KELLY: It's growing on me. How about you? We'll be right back.
KELLY: Heading back to Iowa on Sunday and Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Bret Baier and yours truly will host a special hour with everything you need to know about the caucuses, and a special live "Kelly File" from Iowa at 9:00 p.m. Sunday night with live reports, analysis, Frank Luntz the focus group, see you then.
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