Marco Rubio blasts White House narrative on ISIS
On 'The Kelly File,' presidential candidate on what he thinks it will take to beat the terror group
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," December 28, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, GUEST HOST: Breaking tonight. An American city that fell victim to a terrorist attack just a few years ago is on heightened alert tonight. Boston, and a number of cities in Europe, respond to terrorist threats that suggest a holiday attack could be imminent.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," I'm Shannon Bream in for Megyn Kelly. The Boston Police Department and FBI offices confirming today that they are investigating a terrorist threat relayed to them by the NYPD. Though they add that it provided new specific information. In Europe, cities like Vienna, London, Paris, and possibly others are on heightened alert, as authorities in Austria's capital announced that a threat had been made against several European cities. A threat that could involve explosives or a shooting between Christmas and the New Year.
Trace Gallagher live with our West Coast Newsroom with the latest on what we know. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, the anonymous phone call came in this morning to the New York Police Department's 911 system referencing threats to Boston. The dispatcher tried to press the caller for more information including specific details, but the caller hung up. Naturally, NYPD contacted Boston police and the FBI, but so far all of the investigative agencies are questioning the credibility, which is not to say they're ignoring it, because in this climate, everything gets checked out. Boston police followed up by issuing a community advisory saying, quoting here, "BPD remains vigilant in their patrols throughout the city and maintains high visibility with increase resources at all large public gatherings and venues."
European capitals are also on high alert after threats were made against shoppers and revelers. Authorities in Austria then say, they were given a terror warning from an anonymous but quote, "Friendly intelligence service" warning of possible shootings and bomb attacks in numerous European capitals, including London. Whoever made the threats said, the attacks would happen sometime between Christmas and New Year's Eve. The warnings included several names of possible attackers. But so far, the names have not led to any concrete information.
Cities across Europe are on high alert in the wake of the Paris attacks six weeks ago that left 130 people dead. French authorities have not issued a statement about the latest alleged threat, but security experts say evidence is growing that jihadi sleeper cells plan to hit Western targets. Russians are being told to stay home on New Year's Eve. Other European cities are simply telling their people to stay vigilant -- Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Trace, thank you very much. And a new poll suggests that more Americans think the terrorists are winning now more than at any point since 9/11. Forty percent say, the terrorists are winning. That is up 17 points from the previous high of 23 percent back in 2005. So what does that lack of confidence among Americans say about the state of our national security?
Stephen Hayes is a senior writer for the Weekly Standard and a Fox News contributor. Larry Korb is a former assistant defense secretary and senior fellow with the Center for American Progress. Welcome to you both.
STEPHEN HAYES, SENIOR WRITER, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Hi, Shannon.
LARRY KORB, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Nice to be here.
BREAM: All right. Steve, we hear that the administration is working on a, quote, "new narrative" about this. They say they haven't communicated well about what they have been getting right. So, will that possibly turn around these all-time high poll numbers?
KORB: I don't think it will. And I think what's so striking about these numbers is that they come after seven years of President Obama downplaying the threat. I mean, he said he was going to end George W. Bush's boundless war on terror. He repeatedly talked down both ISIS and al Qaeda before it. And yet the American people seem to understand the nature of the threat and the fact that the threat is persistent, better than the White House does.
BREAM: All right. Larry, is it possibly because obviously there's been a spike in activity. Paris was devastating. That scared everyone around the globe. And then within weeks, you have this attack in San Bernardino, California. It is just at its top of mind because it is now at the top of just about every list when you ask voters what their number one issue is.
KORB: Well, I'm not surprised, because ISIS is not doing well in the Middle East. We saw the fall of Ramadi today. So what they are doing is they're taking their attacks against those who are fighting them around the world. So that's not -- so that's not surprising at all. Also, we cut down the number of people who can go from western countries into Syria to join ISIS to fight, because the Turks have stopped the border. So you have a lot of these lone wolves on here at home. And then of course with 24- hour news cycles, including FOX and CNN, people are more attuned to what is happening than they would have been say when Charles Manson was running around in the United States in the '70s.
BREAM: Well, again, ISIS has a lot more people on board than Charles Manson, and when it hits close to home. Do you think then Steve, it crosses a line that for people they say, now it is in western cities. We have got Paris where, I mean, dozens and dozens of people, blood running in the streets, people trapped in a concert hall being pick off one by one. And then here in California. I mean, it seems closer to home that it never has been for a lot of people, when you're talking about ISIS specifically.
HAYES: Yes. And I think that's one reason that people are so skeptical of the administration on this question, because we've heard for so long that these mass casualty attacks really aren't the risk that we have once thought. And President Obama has talked about a new paradigm and they're all going to be lone wolf attacks or most of these are going to be lone wolf attacks. When it's simply not the case. I mean, even in his press conference before he left on vacation, the President said that the ability of these groups, whether it would be ISIS, whether it would be al Qaeda, whether it would be AQAP or AQIM, or any of these other groups, the ability of these groups to conduct mass casualty, large-scale attacks is really minimal. And I think that that's just not the case, and people see something like Paris and they understand that while we continue to face a threat from lone wolf terrorism or, you know, this evolving nature of terrorism, the threat from larger terrorism conducted by groups that we're familiar with remains and remains pretty high.
BREAM: Yes. And Larry, in this latest poll numbers, I mean, this is crossing the partisan lines. I mean, of course, you would expect it would be higher within the GOP. For a lot of folks they would think so. But 79 percent of Independents and 59 percent of Democrats say they're also concerned and uneasy about how this administration has been handling or not handling terrorism.
KORB: Well, I think Obama is his own worst enemies. For example, he uses the word contain ISIS. He really should say, strangulation, which is what he is doing. He says, no boots on the ground. We have like 4,000, 5,000 people there. So I think his rhetoric. But in fact, the fact that ISIS has lost 40 percent of the territory that it had back in 2014 when we first got in, so we're prevailing. Is it going to happen quickly? No. But I worry more about the fact that people on the terrorist watch list can get guns. Do you realize on Christmas Day in this country, 27 Americans were killed by guns? That's more than lost in San Bernardino.
BREAM: Yes. And that is a whole other separate debate. We can do five minutes on that because -- then you're talking about due process and constitutional rights. The Second Amendment is a whole another can of worms. So, we don't have time for that tonight. But we thank you both for joining us. And by the way, Steve, very interesting piece today. Sorry we're out of time to get to it. But calling the President a liar, not mincing words. Check it out. Steve's piece today. See if you agree. All right. Gentlemen, thank you.
With more American people saying, the terrorists are winning than at any point since 9/11, we're learning the administration isn't changing its strategy on the war against ISIS but it is going to change its messaging. Senator Marco Rubio is up next on that, and how one of his opponents responded to the big-name endorsement he just received.
Plus, we're learning tonight that a Jihadist who allegedly plotted a Times Square bomb may have stabbed a young boy as part of a botched audition to join ISIS.
And more than a year after 12-year-old Tamir Rice was shot and killed by Cleveland police, the grand jury has reached its decision. Ohio governor and presidential candidate John Kasich is here to respond to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grand jury declined to bring criminal charges against Cleveland police officers Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight. A potentially major development in the fight against ISIS. The Iraqi military announcing today that it has taken control of Ramadi, raising its flag over the key city. Ramadi is less than 60 miles from Baghdad and had been under the terror army's control since May. Secretary of State John Kerry praising the announcement but admitting the city is not yet fully under control. And experts say, there's every possibility that ISIS has simply moved outside the city to regroup. It's something we've seen them do in the past.
Meanwhile, we're learning the administration is now reportedly working on a, quote, "new narrative for the war against ISIS," in part to push back on the growing criticism that President Obama doesn't have a strategy. And we may already be seeing our first installment in this messaging new campaign, as the State Department suggests that bringing peace to Syria, a country where some 200,000 plus have been killed and thousands of others are fleeing, is one of the White House's, quote, "pivotal foreign policy moments of the past year." Marco Rubio is a Republican senator out of Florida and a candidate for president to the United States.
Senator, thanks for joining us tonight.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Shannon.
BREAM: Your reaction to the State Department's assessment about, quote, "Bringing peace to Syria," and that maybe suggesting it's still in progress, not a done deal.
RUBIO: The State Department is a disaster, and Barack Obama is a disaster especially when it comes to ISIS. He has no strategy. All they care about is spinning the American public with these sort of political talking points. Everything for them is about domestic politics. So rather than focusing on solving the problem, they're more focused on what the narrative is going to be. And that's the kind of thing you hear in a political campaign, not a national security debate. ISIS is made up of terrorists that want to kill us. They want to infiltrate people into America.
They want to conduct more attacks like what they did in San Bernardino and Paris. They want to capture more territory in the Middle East. And this disastrous president we have is more focused on the narrative as it did with some sort of a campaign commercial. This is not a laughing matter, this is a very serious issue. A life or death issue. Because either if these terrorists win or we win. And I know what the outcome I want to be. I know what the outcome I want. And that's one of the reasons I am running for president.
BREAM: Well, and there's a polling that shows that for the first time there's an all-time high number of Americans to think that the terrorists are winning. I mean, is there something to be said about messaging and about the President's push to make sure that Americans do know what's happening? I mean, we're hearing about successes with Ramadi and other places with the Iraqi forces stepping up and being able to get some things done.
RUBIO: Well, the President wants to convince the American people the terrorists aren't winning. The first thing he needs to do is come before the American people and admit that up to now our strategy hasn't worked well and then outline clearly what we're going to do moving forward. And he hasn't done that. Instead, he gave a speech two or three weeks ago on a Sunday night in which he basically said our strategy is great, we're not going to change a thing. Before that he said, ISIS was contained, the day before Paris he said that. Before that he called them the jayvee team and not a serious threat.
I mean, how can the American people have confidence that this president knows what he is doing on terrorism, when he believes the greatest threat before the country in the world is global warming? These terrorists are killing people and he spends all his time talking about things like global warming and cutting our military. And so, if he wants to turn those phone numbers around about people having confidence in our success against terror, start having success against terror and be serious about it.
BREAM: Well, and to your point, the State Department also highlighted clinching the Iran deal and reaching the climate agreement deal as big wins in 2015, as well. I want to pivot to the campaign trail now and to Donald Trump, the far away front-runner for the GOP field. Apparently not very happy with South Carolina congressman, Republican of course, Trey Gowdy who, over the summer, he said under President Trump would be his attorney general. Now that it looks like Mr. Gowdy is supporting you, he's no longer a fan.
RUBIO: Well, Trey Gowdy, we're very proud to have Trey Gowdy support. He's a phenomenal member of Congress. He's in politics for the right reason and that is to make a difference. He summoned it. It's how people accountable. You know, one of the big problems we have in this country today is Washington is completely out of touch. You've got a president that, instead of fixing our problems, has spent seven years trying to change America. And in the process has done things like ignore and violate our constitution and whether it's on a number host of issues, Trey Gowdy has been one of the few people in Washington, D.C. That has held people accountable for wrong doing and has held people accountable for not doing a good job. We are proud that he's helping us in this campaign. I think he's a phenomenal public servant and as I said, we're very grateful for having the support of someone of his caliber and quality.
BREAM: What do you make of the criticism -- the fact that he was very much a Tea Party favorite, he has been considered one of the most conservative guys on the hill for a lot of very important topics? But now people say that he's supporting you, they don't think he's as conservative as they once did and now some of his biggest supporters are now his critics.
RUBIO: Yes, look, I mean, this is politics. So, whenever you're supporting a candidate and they make a decision, someone else decides to support somebody different, all of a sudden, people start making these sort of accusations. Trey Gowdy has one of the most conservative records in Washington, D.C., as do I. I'm a proud conservative. I'm a conservative that not only knows what I stand for but knows what I'm going to do if I'm elected president. And that's why we're proud to have Trey support. When I'm elected president, we're going to reverse all of these disastrous decisions that Barack Obama has made, from the climate change rules, to the unlawful executive orders, to the gutting of our military, gutting of all of our programs, to help gather intelligence. We are going to rebuild the American military. We're going to reclaim the American dream. That's why I'm running for president and that's why Trey Gowdy is supporting me.
BREAM: And maybe Trey Gowdy would be end up being attorney general after all. We'll have to wait and see. Senator, thank you very much for your time. Good to see you.
RUBIO: Thank you. Thank you.
BREAM: Up next, the startling new report on the stabbing of a nine- year-old boy nearly a year ago. Why police now believe the suspect may have attacked the child as an audition for ISIS. Former DOJ Attorney J. Christian Adams is here on that case.
Plus, breaking news in the deadly storms outbreak across the south and Midwest, as twisters tear apart families and communities.
Plus, a storm chaser encounters an unlikely danger on the job, and it's all caught on camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay, buddy? Are you okay? Are you okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unbelievable. I stopped to help the guy and the guy tried to stab me in my truck. Unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight. A new report alleging that investigators looking into the stabbing of a nine-year-old boy on New York Staten Island nearly a year ago are now eyeing this attack as a possible audition for ISIS.
Trace Gallagher is live in our West Coast Newsroom with this very strange story. Trace.
GALLAGHER: Shannon, the suspect is 21-year-old Fareed Mumuni who is currently in jail, facing terrorism charges for allegedly stabbing an FBI agent multiple times while the Feds were serving a search warrant. The FBI agent survived, thanks to his body armor, but Mumuni is already accused of trying to grab the rifle of another FBI agent. Mumuni along with another man were being investigated for plotting a terrorist attack in New York, including the plan to use a pressure cooker bomb in Times Square on behalf of ISIS.
Mumuni is already facing 85-years in prison and now New York police sources tell our cousin publication, "The New York Post," that Mumuni is also a person of interest in the stabbing of a nine-year-old New York boy last January. In that case, the boy was walking to school when the man was captured on closed circuit television attacking the child and stabbing him in the neck with a kitchen knife. Police have a theory that Mumuni, a want to be jihadist was attempting to slice the boy's throat in what appeared to be an ISIS audition. Police say, the attacker resembles Mumuni and that he lived less than 600 yards from the boy. The nine-year-old survived the attack, but was so afraid of his neighborhood that moved to Atlanta to live with his grandmother. The Feds have not commented on the suspect's alleged involvement in the attack on the young boy -- Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Trace, thank you very much.
The New York Post is also reporting NYPD detectives investigating this knife attack have grown frustrated with federal investigators they say who won't give them access to the terror suspect Fareed Mumuni.
Joining me now, J. Christian Adams, former DOJ attorney and author of "Injustice: Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department." Great to see you tonight.
J. CHRISTIAN ADAMS, FORMER DOJ ATTORNEY: Hey, Shannon.
BREAM: All right. What do you make of this? I mean, as somebody who has operated as a federal attorney, I mean, is it possible that there's something about the terrorism case that can be jeopardized if they work with the NYPD? Why do you think no coordination there?
ADAMS: Well, it sounds like there could be something about the terrorism case that could expand into another terrorism case. It's very troubling that the Justice Department and the FBI is not cooperating with local law enforcement like they used to years ago on terrorism related issues. I mean, why is it that the federal government hasn't moved forward on this attack on a child walking to school and not brought federal charges or looked into it or shared information with the NYPD like they used to years ago? They take it very seriously. It doesn't seem that that's the priority anymore.
BREAM: Well, and this little boy's family says that that, you know, at some point, they thought either the, you know, police or law enforcement officials sort of either forgot or kind of gave up on the case. And I've got to imagine it's frustrating for them to hear there may be some link to this guy who is named a person of interest, though not a formal suspect in the stabbing, and that the NYPD can't get any information or access to him.
ADAMS: And most everybody in America realizes, except the Obama administration, that the jihadist Islamic State war is now on American soil. There's a lot of reason Shannon why the federal government under Obama would not want to have this narrative out there. For example, you know, what are parents going to think? You have children walking to school potentially being slaughtered by an Islamist from the Islamic state. You know, the fact that there is not a gun in this, perhaps is why we don't hear more about it, because it can't be converted into a domestic political narrative for the president. So there's a lot of reasons why this administration might not be looking at this as seriously as they ought to.
BREAM: As a state law enforcement agency or city enforcement agency, you know, is there any way that they have a legal way to force access to this suspect or to force cooperation that they have? Does the NYPD have any options?
ADAMS: Well, of course, they can always have grand jury subpoenas, but more than likely the defendant is not going to testify or invoke their Fifth Amendment rights to not do anything. But yes, you know, the NYPD could conduct their own investigation, but access to the evidence that the federal government has could be very helpful. And the question is, why won't the federal government cooperate? This administration does not seem to want to admit that there's a problem on American soil. They aren't doing what other administrations used to do. They aren't monitoring the problem, Shannon, they're conducting outreach with the problem. They aren't taking things as seriously as they ought to.
BREAM: We know -- we've been talking tonight about the new narrative that they're having on fighting terrorist that they're working on to make sure that the American people are more fully informed about what they are doing, what they are accomplishing. Is this more of that messaging issue, because as you've mentioned, there have been numerous cases that we have covered over the last several years that seem to have a terrorism connection that the administration at some level does not want to label as such.
ADAMS: Yes, because it shows they're failing in keeping America safe. They're failing because Shannon, they have a whole different world view toward the terrorist, toward the Islamic State. They thought it could be contained. They though it wasn't serious. Failure after failure has marked this administration's policies towards the Islamic State. But now that they're here, now that they're killing people, now that they might be attacking children on the way to school with a knife, you see an administration ill-equipped to deal with it, because they don't seriously have an understanding of sort of the spiritual, the theological. They can't believe somebody would be motivated for religious reasons to do this sort of evil. They don't even like to use the word "evil." They treat this as a straight up criminal justice matter. They just don't seem to have the tools to deal with Islamic state terror and Americans are starting to see it.
BREAM: Well, we will stay on this case involve this nine-year-old boy and see what we can find out and hopefully there will be some information sharing if they could lead to a resolution. J. Christian Adams, good to see you, thank you.
ADAMS: You too, Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Breaking tonight, in a deadly shooting in Cleveland, Ohio, it grabbed national attention involving the police. The grand jury decides the fate of the two officers involved in the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. And Ohio governor, presidential candidate John Kasich weighs in on the verdict.
Plus, Donald Trump steps up his attacks on Hillary Clinton and goes after her husband's record with women. Is Bill fair game in the race for the White House? Presidential candidate Governor Jeb Bush is here on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he is fair game, because his presidency was really considered to be very troubled, to put it mildly, because of all of the things that she's talking to me about. I mean, she's mentioning sexism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight. A new twist in the heated back and forth between the 2016 White House front runners, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Mr. Trump turning up his attacks over the weekend, accusing Bill Clinton of a quote, "terrible record of women abuse."
Chief White House correspondent Ed Henry has the very latest from Washington.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, new tonight, Hillary Clinton has just announced she's deploying her husband Bill Clinton for his first solo campaign events next week. The former president will have two rallies Monday in the pivotal stage of New Hampshire where she's currently trailing democratic socialist Senator Bernie Sanders.
Clearly hoping some of Bill Clinton's magic as the comeback kid will translate to her. Though, the republican front runner Donald Trump tells Fox he's ready to pounce on the more negative aspects of the Clinton years by focusing on the former president's personal scandals.
Trump declaring Clinton through the first punch, Hillary Clinton that is, by accusing him of sexism after he used coarse language to describe her 2008 presidential defeat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not the first time he's demonstrated a, you know, a penchant for sexism. And so, I'm not sure, again, anybody is surprised that he just keeps pushing the envelope.
TRUMP: He is fair game, because his presidency was really considered to be very troubled to put it mildly, because of all of the things that she's talking to me about. I mean, she's mentioning sexism. I turned to her exact words against her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Today, republicans like Carly Fiorina claimed it will backfire on Trump to focus on Bill Clinton rather than prosecuting the case against Hillary Clinton's track record. While democrats like Debbie Wasserman Schultz said the former president is so popular he could be elected again. Except Trump has repeatedly denied that Nasser's (ph) in both parties and his critics are running out of time. We're now five weeks until the Iowa caucuses. Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Thank so much, Ed. Here to weigh in all of this and his own presidential campaign, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush. Governor, welcome to The Kelly File.
JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Shannon.
BREAM: All right. So, what do you think of the strategy here. Because as you heard Donald Trump going after Bill Clinton. My cab driver here in New York today tell me he wished Bill Clinton was running, he would vote for him again. I mean, he tends to be a popular guy to there is more strategy.
BUSH: Well, first of all, I think Donald Trump voted for him. He was a democrat during that time, he supported both Hillary Clinton's campaign, the Clinton Foundation. He must know a lot more about the Clintons than the republicans do.
I don't think it's a good strategy to talk about the past; we need to talk about the future. The fact is that Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy. She's under investigation from the FBI; that would be enough to know that she's not someone that you can trust.
But Donald Trump isn't either. The simple fact is, that we are at a point in time of our country's history where we need proven leadership to fix a few big complex things and restore America's might again so that we can keep our country safe.
BREAM: Well, I know today that you were campaigning in Florida. Your home state in where you were a very popular governor, but right now where Mr. Trump is running, you know, 17 points or so, plus or minus, ahead of the rest of the pack. What's the strategy in Florida?
BUSH: The strategy is to continue to work hard to make sure that people know that I have the right ideas and the leadership skills to lead our country forward. That I have the steadiness to do it, as well. This is not about the big personalities on the stage, and Donald Trump is not a serious candidate and he would be I think a disaster as the party's nominee. He'll never be president. And we need to win to fix these complex things so that we can rise up again as a nation. That's my strategy.
Look, every one of these polls is irrelevant as you get closer to the election here in Florida and other places there is big swings. It's always been that way and there will this way in 2016.
BREAM: Yes. And one of the key states where you're spending a lot of time is New Hampshire, where there's been some, you know, there have been some positive things in the polling there for you over the last few weeks. You said today that you're very optimistic about New Hampshire that its, quote "Already my second home." What do you need to do in Iowa and or New Hampshire in order to continue on?
BUSH: Basically, the same thing I just said about Florida. Just to keep working hard, lay out an agenda to grow the economy. Lay out an agenda to destroy ISIS, not to contain it, as this president and Hillary Clinton would like to do. Restore our military, talk about ideas that give people a sense that I'm a serious candidate with serious ideas.
We're living in serious times and I think someone like that is going to be the nominee that can beat Hillary Clinton.
BREAM: Well, you mentioned that something that she said in the last debate that got a lot of attention. She said where we need to be with ISIS, saying that's both a military strategy and a diplomatic front.
Today, we also hear the administration touting that we're doing a good job in bringing security and peace to Syria. The State Department saying that happened over the last few years, partially on Mrs. Clinton's watch, and now under Secretary Kerry.
BUSH: Look, with Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State and Barack Obama as President, we've had a complete disaster. Remember, Hillary Clinton was the first person to say that Assad was a reformer. And Barack Obama talked about red lines and they have backed it up.
Now there are 4 million refugees that are creating big instability in the region and a breeding ground for Jihadists all around the world. This has to be dealt with in Syria. And to suggest that Syria is at peace today, men, they're living in an alternative universe.
This is devastation, 250,000 plus people have died because of Assad and the brutality of ISIS in the form of a caliphate is horrific. Sometimes I'm befuddled by why people in Washington, D.C. say the things that they say, because they know it's not grounded in reality.
BREAM: Well, Governor, we will see how they respond to your assessment of where they are versus their assessment of where they are. We'll see you out on the campaign trail as well. Governor, thank you.
BUSH: Thank you, Shannon. Happy New Year.
BREAM: Coming up, a terrifying ride for a storm chaser in Texas after a man he thinks to be a tornado survivor surprises him with a big knife. We've got the chilling video in a Kelly File exclusive.
And more than a year, after 12-year-old, Tamir Rice was shot and killed by Cleveland police, the grand jury has returned its decision. Ohio presidential candidate John Kasich is here to respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY MCGUNTY, OHIO PROSECUTOR: Given this perfect storm of human error, mistakes, and miscommunication by all involved that day, the evidence did not indicate criminal conduct by police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight. We're watching Cleveland, Ohio for any reaction after a grand jury decides not to charge two white police officers in the shooting, death of a 12-year-old. More than a year ago, this case sparked nationwide protests by in November 2014. Two Cleveland police officers responded to a 911 call. Emergency dispatchers allegedly told the cops that someone was waving a gun in the park. That person turned out to be Tamir Rice.
Surveillance video shows the police cruiser pulling up, the officers allegedly told Rice to drop his weapon, but instead, the county prosecutor says Rice pulled it from his waist band. One officer opened fire, hitting Rice in the stomach. The 12-year-old died the next day.
Later, we learned this gun, was just a toy, but it certainly built to look like the real thing. Now a grand jury has decided the police acted reasonably on the information they had at the time.
In a moment, we'll be joined by Ohio Governor republican presidential candidate John Kasich. But first, we begin with Brian Claypool, the civil rights and criminal defense attorney. All right, Brian, are you surprised at all by the decision, is that what you were expecting?
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, based on past history, Shannon, across the country, as far as not indicting police officers, I'm not surprised by the decision not to indict. But I think if you parse -- parse away the evidence here and you look carefully at policies and procedures of police departments and other cities, I think a good case could have been made for an indictment.
BREAM: Well, those that reviewed the tape, and we heard the prosecutor today, and he said basically looking it over based on what they knew at the moment as it was happening. Now, we forward with 911 calls that said it could be a fake gun, this mght be a juvenile, reportedly those messages never made it to the officers.
They pulled up on the scene; they reported this young man pulling out something that looked very much like a real gun. Now worsen that orange tape he tape on it. And basically, the grand jury found that they acted reasonably, that there was no way under those circumstances knowing what they knew in that moment that they could have made a different decision. Obviously, everybody grieves that any family should lose a 12-year-old with a toy gun.
CLAYPOOL: Right. Shannon, there is no question this is a difficult case. I can see arguments on both sides. As far as reaching a decision not to indict you got to take into consideration facts such as this park is not like a seaside or like lakeside community. It's not a posh neighborhood.
It's an area where two prior police officers have been killed. So, the respondent police officers know that he's going into a dangerous area. He doesn't receive the information that this could be potentially a fake gun. he doesn't receive the information that it's a juvenile.
So, he goes into the situation, all that considered he then is sitting there, he's got a split second to decide what to do. And then he sees allegedly Tamir reaching for his waist. And at that point, the law is on his side, because the law is that if this officer believes objectively that he's in imminent fear of great bodily harm, he can shoot.
So that's the case to not indict. But the case to indict, Shannon, real quick is this. It boils down to one fact, and there's case law, federal case law supporting this. If the police officer placed himself unreasonably in a situation where he is too close to the defend or the suspect, such that he created a condition where he had to use deadly force, then an argument can be made under case law that that is excessive force.
The problem I have is the officer shooting right up two feet from Tamir Rice within two seconds he shoots. That's a problem.
BREAM: Yes, you know, when you watch the tape and you hear about how it played out, it was very quick. I mean, the way that this unfolded. I want to ask you about there are other investigations. This thing isn't over, because the police say that they have an internal investigation that's going to go on as well, which could result in negative consequences for the two officers, though, they are not criminal.
CLAYPOOL: Yes.
BREAM: There's also federal prosecutors say civil rights investigation underway. The family has filed a civil lawsuit as well. So, it's not like these officers are completely out of the woods and couldn't pay some penalty at some point.
CLAYPOOL: Yes.
BREAM: There's still a lot that has to be investigated in other potential trials to come on the civil level.
CLAYPOOL: Yes, there is no question about that, Shannon. But I don't think there's going to be any administrative remedy against these police officers. They'll be back on the street. But another point we have to talk about, too, is this colossal miscommunication between the 911 caller and then the dispatch operator.
Why didn't the dispatch operator keep the caller on the phone? And then if she keeps them on the phone, then the caller can tell that the operator where he is and that can be conveyed to the police officers. There should be a federal investigation, but it's not likely.
And in the end, Shannon, I think we really need to take a close look in Ohio at the training of these officers. You can maybe ask Governor Kasich, do you know that as we sit here today that police officer in Ohio doesn't even need a high school diploma, no drug testing, no psychological testing. We need changes in Ohio.
BREAM: All right. Brian, we got to leave it there. Very interesting insights. Thank you so much for your time.
CLAYPOOL: You bet. Thanks for having me, Shannon.
BREAM: Ohio Governor and republican presidential candidate, John Kasich joins us now. Governor, thank you for your time.
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.
BREAM: All right. We saw a little bit of your statement that you issued after this decision today saying you understand how the decision will leave many people asking themselves if justice was served. What do you mean?
KASICH: Well, I mean, you have the death of a 12-year-old boy. And the circumstances are really, you know, very, very difficult. Apparently, there was video released that showed at one point it appeared as though, the boy reaching into his waist band, which I know is being viewed by a lot of people. But this is very, very tough. It's very, very difficult situation.
But again, I want to say that the leaders of the community, the ministers, the community activists, they understand the fact that we can protest, but we don't want to resort to violence. And we have had our challenges in Ohio, but, you know, to some degree, we've been ahead of the curb.
Senator Nina Turner, a couple of her colleagues, she's an African- American democrat, whose son is a police officer, is a co-chairperson of a task force with the head of my public safety. And we've been working for I guess now, over a year, as quickly as we can, creating the policy on the use of deadly force.
Also, having practices on hiring and recruiting. And I've devoted a lot of time to trying to make sure that everybody inside the state, particularly in our urban areas knows that there's an opportunity for them, criminal justice reform, improving the Cleveland schools.
And this task force that we put together was made up of law enforcement and it was made up of community activists, and it was made up of a great number of people from the clergy. And they were able to come together with unanimous recommendations to try to get to the root cause of our problems.
And now, we're in a collaborative where we're trying to get community and police together for police to understand the challenges in the community and for the community to understand that a police officer wants to go home at night.
And so, we have worked aggressively on this, and also the leaders in our community have done a terrific job in terms of trying to make sure we have justice and change. One other thing, Shannon, I want to point out. I've just asked our head of public safety to look at the issue of dispatchers, because the dispatchers have a very tough, very demanding job, a hectic job and we need to look at what we can do to improve the situation for them.
And I must also say, Shannon, to conclude here, that I think the model we have in Ohio is one that can be looked at all across the country. I'm not tell you we have at all sold but the idea that we're listening, we're communicating, we're acting, we're not back on our heels, I think is the best way to be able to move forward.
And God bless this family. I mean, they're suffering terribly tonight, as they have for the last year. But hopefully at the end, we'll have our protests, we'll have our comments. But we won't have violence. At least we hope and pray for that tonight.
BREAM: Yes. And Governor, I want to make sure while we have you to ask about the campaign trail. I know that you are putting a lot of eggs in the New Hampshire basket. How well do you have to do there in order to stay alive in this race?
KASICH: Well, we've now risen to third, barely out of second place. So, we're surging in New Hampshire with the best people on the field, the best ground game in New Hampshire. But it isn't as though we've ignored Iowa and South Carolina or Nevada. We're now on the ballot in over 30 states.
So, but it is critical that we do well in New Hampshire. Because many people still don't know me. You know, they still don't hear my message that, you know, and if we do well in New Hampshire, we'll become a story, Shannon. And then people will get to hear what I'm all about and how I want to heal this country and create jobs, bring people together and get people to solve problems, like I did in Washington, like I've done in Ohio.
And I just finished my 46th Town Hall meeting here in New Hampshire. I met at 1.2 million people here, that's how many people live here but I've got to meet them a couple more times before they make up their mind.
BREAM: Yes. They're very discerning in that. We know you have a lot more other Town Halls planned there as well. We'll see you out there in the campaign trail, Governor. Thank you.
KASICH: All right. God bless you and God bless the people of Cleveland and that family, the Tamir Rice family. Thank you.
BREAM: After tornadoes ravaged parts of Northern Texas over the weekend, a veteran storm chaser stopped to do the right thing and nearly lost his life. The terrifying video is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attorney?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attorney? Who? Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to, this is a (muted) guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? I know. This guy -- this guy just tried to tag me. This guy just tried tag me with a knife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight, a monster storm system is hammering millions of people across the Midwest after triggering a deadly tornado outbreak in Texas this weekend.
Officials say at least 11 people have been killed, dozens more injured and thousands of homes have been destroyed. This video of the aftermath shows the total devastation in Garland, Texas.
We are also getting incredible new video from a veteran storm chaser who nearly lost his life when he stopped to help someone he thought was a man who survived one of the twisters.
Trace Gallagher is live on our West Coast newsroom with that story. Hey, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Shannon. Jeff Petrowski has been chasing storms for 35 years. He's been on Fox News. He won an Emmy and gain Notoriety in 2011 for notifying authorities about a deadly tornado bearing down on Joplin, Missouri.
This time he was chasing tornados in Texas streaming the whole thing live on the internet. He drove past a man that he thought was injured, so he stopped to help when this happened. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attorney?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attorney? Who? Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to, this is a (muted) guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? I know. This guy -- this guy just tried to tag me. This guy just tried tag me with a knife. Unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Yes, Petrowski got away unhurt, but as he drove away, he says the guy with the knife was still hanging on to his truck. Down the road he found a deputy who went after the suspect. Now remember, more than 2,000 people were watching this live online. And you can hear the more Petrowski thinks about what happened, the angrier he gets. Listen again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's ridiculous. Unbelievable. Stopped to help somebody out here and after all he tries to stab me. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. Piss me off. In 35 years of chasing I've never had anybody try to freaking stab me after a freaking tornado. I'm mad at hell. I wish I would have had my gun, I would have shot his ass. This is ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Suspect was arrested and charged with assault and possession of a controlled on substance. Unknown if he was on that substance. Shannon.
BREAM: Thanks, Trace. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Hope you'll tune in tomorrow night. Marc Thiessen, Pete Hegseth, Rick Santorum will be here live.
Don't forget to go to Facebook.com/thekellyfile. Tell us what you think. Thanks for watching. I'm Shannon Bream. This is "The Kelly File."
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