Muslim community leader supports Trump's proposed ban
Imam and Islamic activist debate the issue on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," December 9, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." And tonight, top U.S. intelligence and national security officials continue to counter President Obama's narrative on ISIS and are also sounding alarm bells about terrorists infiltrating the Syrian refugee population, those coming to America.
In Washington tonight with a full report is our own Catherine Herridge. Catherine, this is one after another now contradicting the president, a lot of people. The list is getting long.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sean, the defense secretary's testimony did not provide cover for the president's controversial statement that ISIS is contained. Under questioning from Republican John McCain today on Capitol Hill, Defense Secretary Ash Carter was in line with the recent testimony of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: Congressman Forbes asked General Dunford, quote, "Have we currently contained ISIL?"' General Dunford, "We have not contained ISIL." Mr. Secretary, do you agree with General Dunford?
ASHTON CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I agree with what General Dunford said, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: At a panel here in Washington this morning, the Republican chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee said former secretary of state Hillary Clinton and Mr. Obama own the ISIS problem because it was Clinton who was the architect of Mr. Obama's foreign policy that failed to get a status of forces agreement in Iraq, creating the opening for ISIS to explode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE MCCAUL, R-TEXAS: I would say that she and the president are responsible for ISIS rearing its ugly head. They've not effectively dealt with it, and I think that's going to be a huge campaign issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: As Fox first reported this morning, Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik were radicalized by the time this photo was taken as they entered the United States in Chicago on July 27th, 2014. In testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, FBI director James Comey went further.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: As early as the end of 2013, they were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged and then married and lived together in the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: The FBI director also testified that ISIS under its leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi has a growing capability to forge passports to get their operatives into Western countries. This is fairly sophisticated and a direct concern for the U.S. intelligence community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY, R-IOWA: Are you concerned that ISIS has the ability to create fraudulent passports or other identification documents for its operatives that, as a practical matter, it would be almost impossible to detect?
COMEY: Yes, Mr. Chairman, the intelligence community is concerned that they have the ability, the capability to manufacture fraudulent passports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Comey's testimony leaves no doubt that the visa screening process, including two rounds of criminal and national security background checks, failed to detect Malik's radicalization. And though Farook had contact with terrorism suspects the FBI was already looking at, it was still not enough to warrant an independent FBI investigation of the 28- year-old -- Sean.
HANNITY: Unbelievable. Thank you, Catherine.
Joining us now with reaction, the host of "War Stories," Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North is with us. Colonel, Ash carter is only the latest following the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Let's go through the list of people now that contradict the president's narrative a year ago that ISIS is the JV team, that they're contained, that they do not represent an existential threat to Americans. Let's listen to those people around him that have been sounding the alarm bells that he doesn't listen to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the mission that he said is the right mission, which is to disrupt, dismantle and destroy ISIS. That's the right mission. But I think that the resources applied to that mission, frankly, have not been sufficient.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a near-term problem that needs to be addressed or a near-term challenge from ISIS that needs to be addressed. I think there are some things that we could be doing or intensifying that would perhaps yield greater success sooner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's happening here is that it is completely out of control, and there's no prospect for bringing any kind of stability, I think, in the path we're on now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have we currently contained ISIL?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not contained ISIL.
MCCAIN: General Dunford, "We have not -- we have not contained ISIL." Mr. Secretary, do you agree with General Dunford?
CARTER: I agree with what General Dunford said, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: When our chairman of our Joint Chiefs, when our defense secretary, when past defense secretaries, even Dianne Feinstein says ISIS is not contained, they're growing -- when they're all saying this, why doesn't this president listen? What part of this is he missing?
OLIVER NORTH, "WAR STORIES" HOST: Well, he's operating from a parallel universe, apparently, delusional. I really don't know what's going on in his heart, mind and head and soul. But the end result, the consequences of his inaction have placed Americans at a greater threat than we've been at since 9/11.
And the idea that we're going to continue on the same process, because that's all we heard from the Oval Office address, just continue on what we're doing is a formula for utter disaster.
Sean, I developed the other day on this network a 10-point plan that will work. Here it is very quickly. OK, number one, do something right away to fix the visa and refugee clearance and vetting process, and that means pausing it until you fix it.
Number two, define the enemy. The enemy is not just ISIS. The enemy is radical Islam, all of them, no matter what they call themselves, are franchises from hell with the same product, jihad. And if you can't define the enemy, you can't define victory. What is victory? Victory is making sure that radical Islamists no longer have a safe haven anywhere in the world, not just Raqqa, Syria, but that means Libya and the Sinai and Yemen. And that means you have to get a worldwide coalition. He brags about a coalition of 65 countries, let's see him stand up and do something about it.
Number four, put soft (ph) forward air controllers from the British, the Americans, and French, with those forward units of the Kurds and the ISIS elements -- excuse me -- and the Sunni elements who are willing to fight with us against ISIS. If you don't you have them out there, you can't run a serious air campaign.
And to run a serious air campaign, number five, you've got to deploy a couple of carrier strike groups to the Mediterranean with a Marine air- ground task force to run SAR and search and rescue and the like and get them in the Mediterranean right away so you've got the air assets to run a serious air campaign, which we've not run yet.
Number six, al Sisi in Egypt and Abdullah in Jordan asked for and got a back of the hand from this administration when they were looking for logistics support to put a Sunni Arab force into Anbar province. That needs to happen, and that will make the Sunnis stand up and fight with us instead of against us with ISIS.
Number seven, arm the Kurds and the Sunnis out in Anbar province directly. Don't do it through Baghdad. Baghdad's government, al Abadi, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tehran, and the government in Tehran, the ayatollahs, do not want the Sunnis to succeed.
Number 8, tell Putin to keep his military assets, both ground and air, out of our way. That way, nobody's going to get hurt.
Number nine, show the Sunnis that we're serious by standing up and condemning Tehran's ICBM test. Lookit, part of the propaganda that Baghdadi is using with ISIS is to tell the Sunnis he is the defense of Sunni Islam from the Shi'ites. If this president stood up and condemned Tehran for the very first time, by the way, since he's been in office, that would have had a very positive effect on recruiting Sunnis to our side.
And number ten, we've got to gain the cooperation of the technology giants out in Silicon Valley to make sure that we can break into this black Web. Otherwise, we're never going to know what the bad guys are doing.
Lastly, some good news for you.
HANNITY: OK.
NORTH: Today, we announced a freedom alliance. We've raised $10 million -- distributed $10 million in college scholarships to young Americans who have lost a parent serving in the line of duty in our armed forces. You and I started that back in 2003. As of today, more than $10 million, over almost a thousand remarkable American heroes have their youngsters going to college and have gone to college under a scholarship, one that...
HANNITY: That's awesome.
NORTH: ... you helped start, buddy. Thank you.
HANNITY: Oh, I'm glad, and we talked about it when these kids came of age. Congratulations on that.
All right, let me go to this. The big political news is Donald Trump's proposal, put a temporary ban on Muslims coming into America, not Muslim Americans, but keep people coming from countries where there are these theocracies, where sharia law is the law of the land and these theocratic states, et cetera.
Let's go to some of our biggest and brightest intelligence officials in this country, the FBI director, the director of national intelligence, the general in charge of defeating ISIS. I want to play a montage for you of them warning about the dangers that exist in taking in Syrian refugees and ask you a question out of that.
NORTH: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, I wouldn't put it past the likes of ISIL to infiltrate operatives among these refugees.
COMEY: We can only query against that which we have collected, and so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interests reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but we're not going to -- there will be nothing show up because we have no record on that person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is some fear, some fear that some of these refugees may actually be posing as refugees, but they might actually be al Qaeda or ISIS terrorists trying to sneak into Europe or the United States. What do you make of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, certainly, that's a possibility. I mean, you can't dismiss that out of hand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should be conscious of the potential that Daesh may attempt to embed agents within that population.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now, yesterday on this program, Congressman Mike McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, stated to this audience that, in fact, they have discovered beyond any doubt, like Paris, ISIS has a plan to infiltrate the refugee population.
So my question to you is, is Donald Trump right to say put a temporary ban on this? Is Rand Paul right to say put a ban on 34 countries and not take in Syrian refugees? Is that the prudent thing to do? Is the president gambling with lives of Americans by insisting that we take them in, even though these officials are warning that it's dangerous?
NORTH: Yes, well, without endorsing any particular presidential candidate's aspirations, the fact is that unless we fix the visa problem and the refugee vetting problem, we're going to end up with more of what we've just seen.
Lookit, the wife in this San Bernardino case falsified information that was never caught by the State Department vetting process. So clearly, it doesn't work. And so what I'm suggesting is that if that isn't fixed, we're inviting a disaster in this country of the likes of which you've already seen. It's the worst terror event America since 9/11/01. More Americans died in that since any since. And if they don't fix it, they're asking for more.
HANNITY: All right, thanks, Colonel. Appreciate it.
And coming up next tonight...
NORTH: (INAUDIBLE) Sean.
HANNITY: ... on this busy news night here on "Hannity"...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to ISIS. The people in my party fully understand that. They're running against me. For the most part, they have no poll numbers. I'm leading by a lot. They get it, and they're trying to get publicity for themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Donald Trump -- he refuses to back down over his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the country for a period of time. When we come back, Laura Ingraham and Geraldo Rivera -- they are here to go head to head on that issue.
And then later, you'll meet the imam who's from Texas who says Trump's proposal is the right thing to do. All of that, plus 2016 GOP Republican presidential candidates Governor Chris Christie and Carly Fiorina are also here on this busy night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And Welcome back too "Hannity." 2016 Republican front-runner Donald Trump is not backing down from his proposed ban on Muslims entering the country for a period of time. Here's what he told Barbara Walters last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to ISIS. The people in my party fully understand that. They're running against me. For the most part, they have no poll numbers. I'm leading by a lot. They get it, and they're trying to get publicity for themselves.
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS: Are you a bigot?
TRUMP: Not at all. Probably the least of anybody you've ever met.
WALTERS: Because?
TRUMP: Because I'm not. I'm a person that has common sense. I'm a smart person. I know how to run things. I know how to make America great again. This is about making America great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now, Donald Trump is drawing some criticism for his proposal, but keep in mind, during the height of the Iranian hostage crisis, then President Jimmy Carter announced that his administration would invalidate all visas issued to Iranians and ordered all Iranian students, in that case 50,000, in America at the time to report to the nearest immigration office to face possible deportation. They deported 15,000.
Here with reaction, editor-in-chief of Lifezette.com Laura Ingraham, FOX News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera.
Let's start with all these officials that I just put up on the screen for Ollie North -- James Comey, the assistant FBI director, the State Department spokesman, the director of national intelligence -- all saying ISIS will infiltrate the refugee population and the visa programs.
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I think that Donald Trump's proposal is both unconstitutional and un-American, and here's why.
HANNITY: That's ridiculous.
RIVERA: Here is why.
HANNITY: The Constitution does not apply to non-citizens!
RIVERA: Let me -- let me give you the reason. There is in the Constitution -- I disagree, there is the 1st and 5th Amendments to the Bill of Rights. There's Article 6 that specifically says there shall be no religious test.
If Donald Trump was serious and he wanted to exclude the danger, he would have done what Senator Rand Paul has done, make it about geography.
HANNITY: You're talking about...
RIVERA: Make it about -- listen, Sean. Make it about geography. Make it about nobody from Syria, nobody from Iraq, nobody from Afghanistan...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... he made it 34 countries. Do you support Rand Paul?
RIVERA: You can make it about geography and be constitutional. Whether I agree or not, at least it would stand the test of American values. No religious tests...
HANNITY: I am not believing...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: We are founded by people fleeing religious persecution!
HANNITY: Laura -- Laura, our Constitution...
LAURA INGRAHAM, LIFEZETTE.COM: Sean...
HANNITY: ... does not apply to people that are not citizens of this country!
INGRAHAM: I hate to break it to Geraldo, but as a former Supreme Court clerk and a lawyer, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist here or even any of the things I just said to understand that this is not at all unconstitutional. In fact, liberal scholars have conceded as much in The New York Times. Peter Spiro's (ph) piece -- I mean, he doesn't like Trump. He hates the policy...
RIVERA: How about Professor Laurence Tribe...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... Harvard University?
INGRAHAM: You know, I didn't interrupt you, Geraldo. But anyway, so this is not even a question. There's plenary power for the president to exclude classes of people from admittance into the United States purely because the court understands the president has foreign policy and national security jurisdiction, and there are decisions made at certain points in our history that reflect on the needs of the country, the people, the need to protect the people. So you can say the policy is wrong-headed, but it's absolutely absurd to say that it's unconstitutional. No way, nohow.
RIVERA: I absolutely disagree. I am also a lawyer, graduated 13th in my class of 360 at Brooklyn Law School. I didn't clerk for the Supreme Court, but I can tell you something about the Constitution of the United States. Article six -- we are a nation founded by people fleeing religious persecution. Our founders that you are so glib to introduce into every issue, secular or not...
INGRAHAM: What are you talking about?
RIVERA: ... the founders established this republic based on the fact that we were...
(CROSSTALK)
INGRAHAM: The Constitution applies to American citizens, Geraldo. You do understand that.
RIVERA: That is not true. That is not true!
INGRAHAM: The 1st Amendment -- the court has said that the 1st Amendment does not apply to non-citizens. The court has refused to turn...
(CROSSTALK)
INGRAHAM: ... decisions it's already made on this...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: What about the due process clause of the 5th Amendment?
INGRAHAM: I'm not saying the court, Geraldo, at some point in time...
RIVERA: What about Article 6 of the Constitution?
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Let me jump in here. Let me...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... there are Kurdish Muslims!
HANNITY: ... the point. The first job...
INGRAHAM: I mean, apparently, it's a suicide pact, Geraldo!
HANNITY: Laura, hang on one sec. The first job of a president is that of commander-in-chief. OK. The FBI director, his top envoy in the coalition to defeat ISIS, the director of national intelligence...
INGRAHAM: Yes.
HANNITY: ... the State Department spokesman, the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee have all said that ISIS, Islamic State, is going to infiltrate this country in numerous ways. All Donald Trump to me is saying is the president should fulfill his role and responsibility constitutionality as commander-in-chief and make sure the vetting is secure, which we now know it is not...
INGRAHAM: Well, we know that...
HANNITY: ... and until then, keep the American people safe! That is not unreasonable to me!
INGRAHAM: That's the most solemn and most important responsibility for any commander-in-chief is the homeland. Now, I understand there are a lot of people who think that anyone who wants to come here should be able to come here at any point in time. I get that. I get that -- there's a whole school of thought that believes that. I understand that.
But if we have a situation, as we have now, where we have committed jihadists who are working within -- you know, within the normal channels of admission into the United States, we have to take a pause. Maybe it's a complete...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Ingraham and Hannity, how would you have felt during the troubles if we said the IRA wants to influence the Boston establishment, no Catholics from Ireland will be admitted, only the Protestants.
HANNITY: But that didn't happen.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: ... the Chinese exclusion...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Wait a minute...
RIVERA: ... the Japanese internment. These are based on nationality, on geography, not on religion!
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Geraldo, all we're saying -- and I think Laura and I are in full agreement here -- is a pause. These are smart -- hang on. These are smart intelligence officers and officials of this government that are warning us that they can't keep Americans safe!
RIVERA: Do you really want a religious test?
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: What, are you going to give them a pork sandwich to prove that they're Muslim or not?
(CROSSTALK)
INGRAHAM: Why not just a pause on at least certain types of visas or immigration until we get a handle on...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Whatever the authorities believe necessary in consultation with our allies, I absolutely agree.
INGRAHAM: If Obama -- if a Syrian refugee, like Paris, if an ISIS member or ISIS cells infiltrate the refugee population and we're worried about this and our officials warned us about this, and Obama insists on it, and they commit an act of terror and they kill somebody you love -- I watched you from Paris. I watched the emotion in your heart, and we were all as a family here thankful that your daughter was OK.
RIVERA: And I thank God...
HANNITY: The president...
RIVERA: ... for my family here and how they covered my back.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... would have blood on his hands! This is a dereliction of duty...
RIVERA: Do you...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Do you forget that everyone involved in the Paris attack was homegrown, that they were born either in France or Belgium.
HANNITY: No. Wrong. No. Excuse me!
RIVERA: They were born in either France or Belgium...
HANNITY: The refugees...
RIVERA: ... passed through, went to Syria to fight. They were homegrown...
HANNITY: That's not true!
RIVERA: ... just like this guy in San Bernardino, born in...
HANNITY: ISIS guy...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... sneaking into Belgium through the refugee population!
RIVERA: The terrorists can be home -- the vast majority of them, except for the wife...
HANNITY: Why can't you just wait until we get the system vetted (INAUDIBLE)
RIVERA: Why have a religious test, Sean?
HANNITY: Because there's radical Islamists...
INGRAHAM: Enrique...
HANNITY: ... that wage war against us!
INGRAHAM: Enrique Marquez...
(CROSSTALK)
INGRAHAM: Can I get in here? Enrique Marquez, who they're investigating now, the federal government is investigating because he purchased the weapons that the terror duo used to carry out their carnage.
He attended the same mosque that Farook attended for some period of time. We don't know much about him yet, but I think he's a convert to Islam, as far as we can tell in the reporting. It doesn't mean -- there are a lot of Muslims that are doing wonderful things in the country, doing great things. But we have a radicalization problem...
HANNITY: All right, I go to...
INGRAHAM: ... I think helped by the Internet. And we have to do something...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: You know what? Temporary, it does stink. I'll agree with you, but...
RIVERA: Geography, not religion.
HANNITY: ... but the safety of the American people for now, and get it right.
INGRAHAM: San Bernardino stunk!
HANNITY: Good point, Laura.
RIVERA: So did Sandy Hook. So did Boulder.
HANNITY: All right, we got to break.
RIVERA: So did Tucson.
HANNITY: When we come back...
RIVERA: So did Aurora.
HANNITY: A lot more tonight on "Hannity."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's not about religion. This is about safety. This has nothing to do with religion. It's about safety. A lot of problems are happening in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now, Donald Trump says that his plan to temporarily ban Muslims from coming to America is about security, not religion. Coming up next, you'll meet a Texas imam who supports Donald Trump.
And later tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think his take on what needs to be done is close to mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, Hillary says that her plan to defeat ISIS is just like Obama's failed strategy. 2016 Republican presidential candidate Governor Chris Christie -- he is here with reaction. And we'll check in with 2016 contender Carly Fiorina, and much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The people who are in the country, they're in the country. We're not talking about them. These are people that are outside of the country. So we're really not talking about the Constitution. And it's not about religion. This is about safety. This has nothing to do with religion. It's about safety. A lot of problems are happening in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: That was Donald Trump earlier today insisting that his proposed ban on Muslims entering the U.S. is a temporary safety measure, not about religion.
Here with reaction is the religious director and imam of the Islamic Center of Triplex, Nidal Alsayyed, and the president of Muslims for Progressive Values, Ani Zonneveld. Good to see you all.
Imam, let me start with you. You agree with Donald Trump.
IMAM NIDAL ALSAYYED, ISLAMIC CENTER OF TRIPLEX: Sean, thank you, first, for having me. It's clearly a kind of overreaction by many American Muslims to Mr. Trump's statements.
The truth is that he definitely concerned about some security, some safety, some peace. This is happening due to Muslims or Islam being associated with many of these radical terror groups and individuals that are popping in the country or different countries from time to time.
So I would assume -- I would assume any type of safety security measure to basically hold on, make us understand what is really going on, that would be -- I would really consider it as a very wise move to where it's holding any Muslims immigrations or even visitors until we know that all Muslims really understand what it takes to live in the West country -- Western country or United States.
One of the challenges that we face here is that most Muslims don't understand there's sharia law, or what we refer to it as Islamic law, that is pertaining to live -- or living in the United States, meaning the sharia law that you learned in your country is not the same sharia law that you will have to behave with or work with in this country.
The roots are the same, the same holy book, the same reports (ph) from Prophet Mohammed. But the truth is, still the issue is a matter of different backgrounds from different places. It's really hard for any intelligence to understand what those people really...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: You know, our national intelligence director this morning -- I want to ask you about the question about people that grow up in a culture that is diametrically the opposite of ours, the antithesis of ours, that means under sharia.
What are your thoughts about -- do you think people -- do they -- I would imagine most want to come here for freedom. But maybe some want to come here, like they've gone to Europe and maintain the values that they grew up with. Thoughts.
ANI ZONNEVELD, MUSLIMS FOR PROGRESSIVE VALUES PRES.: So yes, so let me, if I may, humor me. Let me explain to you what sharia law is in 15 seconds that some scholars take five books to explain to you.
Sharia law is basically a man-made set of laws. It has nothing to do with God. And that's why you have differences of sharia law in different countries. Sharia law is a mix-up of secular norms and the medieval misogynistic man of the 7th century extrapolating from the Quran, mashing it all up, going to the clergy who's on their payroll and saying, Hey, look, you have to legitimize this as religious, or off with your head. And so you have sharia law.
So the fact that here in the United States, Muslims for Progressive Values, we don't subscribe to sharia law because the law of the land is our Sharia. The fact that what's happening now is Trump is backpedaling a bit on his full-blown statement, he's actually feeding off statistics that was put out two years ago where just hovering under 50 percent Americans in general believe that Muslims should be carrying a special identity card identifying themselves as Muslim. So he's not really pandering to just his Republican base --
HANNITY: The reality is we know ISIS wants to infiltrate the refugee community. We know they want to attack us.
ZONNEVELD: The radicalism is in the U.S., Sean. The radicalism is in the United States. It's not the refugees.
HANNITY: There are some. There are thousands that the FBI told us about. But we don't want more. We want to stop those that have radical views from getting in.
ZONNEVELD: The fact is Trump is a scumbag for riding on the misery of these refugees who are terrorized by Assad and ISIL.
HANNITY: OK, but not all of them. Listen, I can sympathize with them and, I believe we should set up safe zones and provide humanitarian assistance and food and water and medical supplies, but if there's a risk to Americans that some radicalized ISIS members might infiltrate that population, I'm not willing to gamble with American's lives. I'm just not willing to do it.
ZONNEVELD: I'm not willing to gamble with that, too, but I think him painting it out as banning all or halting --
HANNITY: That's what he said. He said until we get the system --
ZONNEVELD: That is what he said. That is what he said until he backpedaled.
HANNITY: I have paper right here. Trump for America. I got the whole statement. "Until we get to the point that the country's representatives can figure out what is going on, until we are able to determine and understand the nature of the problem that it would be a temporary ban. So that's what he said.
I got to roll. Thank you both. Coming up next tonight here on "Hannity."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I think his take on what needs to be done is close to mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Hillary Clinton touting that her strategy to defeat ISIS, that's similar to Obama's, which, by the way, is a failure. When we come back, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is here. He will weigh in on that and more. And then we will talk to Carly Fiorina and get her reaction to Trump's Muslim ban, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: FOX News alert. I'm Adam Housley in San Bernardino, California, where the investigation intensifies here locally across the country and around the globe as detectives continue to put more and more and agents put more and more things together to make the ties even tighter.
We're told that Tashfeen Malik and her husband Syed Farook most likely did not meet on an Islamic dating site as was told by some members of the family. Investigators now believe that that was a cover. And now the investigation into her background continues to intensify as well. In Pakistan they're looking very closely at family ties to money and possibly any money that might have moved. Also the schools she went to and a chance that radicalization happened there.
Also Enrique Marquez, who was connected to the family by marriage, continues to sing to authorities, we're told, telling them a lot of information about the background of these two, and that background continues to get deeper and deeper.
I'm Adam Housley. More on FOX throughout the night. Now HANNITY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." Now, the rise of ISIS has resulted in absolute chaos around the world, but the Democratic frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, she seems to be modeling her ISIS strategy after Obama's failed policies. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I was really happy that he made the address. I thought it was very important for him to address the nation. And you know, I think his take on what needs to be done is close to mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Joining us with reaction, 2016 Republican presidential candidate, he is the governor of the great state of New Jersey, Governor Chris Christie. How are you, sir?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good, Sean.
HANNITY: First, let me put up on the screen. You have got some good news. You're in third place in New Hampshire, which is a state you've been spending a lot of time in, behind Trump and Rubio in that state. And so that's a big step up for you.
CHRISTIE: Listen, we're making gains. We've worked hard. We spent 50 days in New Hampshire, and we're talking about things that people really care about and we're seeing a response to it.
HANNITY: Is it true or not true by Obama and Hillary Clinton pulling out of Iraq too early and cities like Mosul, Tikrit, Fallujah, Ramadi, falling in the hands of ISIS, did they create that vacuum?
CHRISTIE: Of course, they did. President Bush predicted this. The fact of the matter is that we expended a lot there. We should have kept a force there afterward to avoid this from happening. That plus their inaction in Syria has given a breeding ground for ISIS and land for them to operate out of, money for them to loot the banks in Iraq, which they did, oil as well. It's given them all those assets. And Hillary Clinton is one of the architects with the president of that policy.
HANNITY: You heard Mike Morell says that Obama didn't bomb the financial source, the oil wells, because he was afraid of environmental damage, I'm thinking is this how we're fighting wars now?
CHRISTIE: Listen, this is the president who believes that no action is better than any action at all. This is what he believes in, Sean. Don't do stupid stuff. You know, this is the philosophy, the governing philosophy of this administration. And what he's done is put America behind the eight ball in this war against ISIS, and it's a war against ISIS. He doesn't understand that.
HANNITY: Obama's top envoy on the coalition to defeat ISIS, General John Allen, James Comey, our FBI director, the national director of intelligence, James Clapper, the assistant FBI director, State Department spokesman Mike McCaul was on this program last night, the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. They're all saying that ISIS has a plan to infiltrate the refugee population from Syria like they did in Paris to bring harm to Americans. Now, you have Donald Trump as saying temporary hold until we can vet these people. Rand Paul is saying a temporary ban in 34 countries until we can vet these people. Where are you on this issue?
CHRISTIE: That's why I said that we should not admit one Syrian refugee. And you'll remember I took a lot of abuse from the U.N. crowd about it. But I said no one, not women, not children, nobody, because, as we saw in San Bernardino, women are just as capable of being radicalized and participating in the murder of folks.
And something with all this controversy lately, Sean, the fact is that folks who are criticizing Donald Trump for what he said -- and I said I didn't think it was a feasible way to do it, but they shouldn't be attacking the people who support Donald Trump. The reason why they feel the way they do is they're angry and they're disenchanted because the government doesn't work.
HANNITY: But our intelligence officials are warning us --
CHRISTIE: Of course.
HANNITY: -- that they will infiltrate. So it makes sense to me if the system is not working, our intelligence officials are telling us we're not prepared, isn't it better to get prepared and then deal with it.
CUOMO: Of course. And that's why I said no Syrian refugees. If they've got a plan to infiltrate Syrian refugees, and they do, and we know they do, and the director of the FBI who I have enormous respect for says we can't vet them, that should be the end of the conversation. But the president wants to get his second worthless Nobel Peace Prize.
HANNITY: Yes, exactly. The first one was totally well-earned, right?
CHRISTIE: Yep.
HANNITY: Here's an important question. Is there a clash of cultures? If you're a man and you grow up in Saudi Arabia under Sharia law, talking about a theocratic state, theocracy, and you believe you have the right to tell women how to dress, that you tell women whether they can go to school, whether they can go to work, women can't go out in public without a male relative, women, for example, there's no such thing as marital rape in Saudi Arabia. Really stringent, horrible laws against women. If you grow up there and you want to come to America, how do we determine whether or not you want to assimilate, you want the breath of freedom that we take for granted, or that you want to bring your values with you? Should we be concerned about that?
CHRISTIE: I think we have to be concerned about this idea, that we want people who come to this country who respect liberty and freedom.
HANNITY: But in Saudi Arabia where's your Catholic Church, where's your Christian church, where your Jewish synagogue?
CHRISTIE: Of course, and part of the problem, though is you do have lots of people who come from those countries that do want those values.
HANNITY: Right.
CHRISTIE: Because they're repelled by that.
HANNITY: But how do we tell the difference? I agree with you.
CHRISTIE: Listen, it's very hard. But here's the thing. There are ways for us to do this. My great grandparents when they came to this country, they went through, when they came here, they went through questioning. They had to learn the language. They had to do all kind of things to prove they can assimilate. We've walked away from some of that.
HANNITY: The assimilation wasn't as hard because they're western values. This is a theocracy, as far as I'm concerned in terms of rights for women and gays and lesbians, they're back in the stone age.
CHRISTIE: Many of them are. And the fact is we have to figure out a way to best screen these folks in a dangerous time right now. And that's why you can't just put up a total wall. That doesn't work.
HANNITY: We can wait until we get a system that's going to works.
CHRISTIE: We have to demand that the government works the right way. The FBI director knows how to do this. He's not been given the support by the White House and he's not been given the resources. And I'll tell you this. If our president of the United States, given my background as a United States attorney who did this for seven years in the Bush administration, Jim Comey and I would have a very different conversation.
HANNITY: Would you trust him? Would he indict Hillary if he had this evidence?
CHRISTIE: Absolutely. I have no doubt about that.
HANNITY: Zero doubt?
CHRISTIE: I have zero doubt. Jim Comey has as much integrity as anybody I've met during all my time as U.S. attorney.
HANNITY: Would Loretta Lynch do it?
CHRISTIE: I don't know her and so I have no idea. But that guy, Comey, if he believes the evidence is there, he will recommend it. And here's my bet. If they refuse to do it, he'd resign.
HANNITY: Governor Christie, good to see you.
CHRISTIE: Thank you, Sean.
HANNITY: And coming up, 2016 Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, she will weigh in on Donald Trump's proposal to ban Muslims for a period of time, that and more as HANNITY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." Joining us now to weigh in on Donald Trump's Muslim ban proposal, 2016 Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina. Carly, it's good to see you. One of the things I've always admired about you is how you've been taking on Hillary, and you've pointing out the hypocrisy of the so called war on women. I want to ask you a question that is a little difficult. If somebody is raised in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia where you are raised under Sharia and you're taught as a male that you can tell women what to wear, where to go, how to dress, they can't go out in public without you, whether they go to school, or work, or not. Marital rape is nonexistent there. If people are raised in that culture, do we have to worry if they're coming to America, that maybe they want to bring those values with them, because that is all they've known? In other words is there a cultural divide that we should consider?
CARLY FIORINA, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, certainly we know that sharia law is counter to our constitution and way of life. And on the other hand, Sean, it's also true that people in other parts of the world who are not Muslim believe in very objectionable things. In China, for example, so many babies are aborted or left to die through exposure because they're female. So does that mean we have to worry about every Chinese?
HANNITY: I think that's a little bit different, because I don't think the people -- that is a government regulation.
FIORINA: Actually not.
(CROSSTALK)
FIORINA: With all due respect, it is mothers and father who choose to abort their children or leave them to die through exposure because they're female. So the government policy is one child. But think about what you just said, Sean. One child policy they want to make.
HANNITY: It's horrendous. It's evil.
FIORINA: My point is there are lots of cultures around the world who do not treat women with the same liberty and respect that we do in the United States. That is absolutely true, and there's no question that Sharia law is counter to the constitution. I think what is important --
HANNITY: My follow up question is we are both saying the same thing, but should it be a factor? In other words, how do we ascertain if they crave freedom we take for granted or if they want to bring those ideas with them, which has been a problem in Europe in some countries?
FIORINA: I think it's a problem with all kinds of cultures, and certainly it has been a culture with some Muslims. But I also think that right now, honestly, Sean, if I may say, because of Donald Trump's comments, we're talking about all of the wrong things. What we need to be talking about right now is, what are the practical steps that can be taken to protect the homeland now?
So for example, Tom Cotton in the Senate two days ago made very reasonable proposal that says, you know what, despite the change in the Patriot Act we need to make sure investigators have access to all of the NSA data going back however long we should. Mike McCaul made some very sensible proposals. It's true we know once again that the government has been inept. But despite all that metadata, before the Patriot Act changed, that these were two individuals in San Bernardino who had been radicalized years ago, who had been engaged in a pattern of conversation, and yet somehow we missed them, just like somehow we missed the Boston bomber. We need to be talking about why there is government ineptitude, and it's failing to keep us safe. And we also need to ask every single candidate, including Donald Trump, what is your plan for defeating ISIS, because I don't think he has one.
HANNITY: So my next point, then, is, OK, if you're acknowledging what all our intelligence officials are acknowledging, should we put a hold, a stop until they get it right?
FIORINA: I don't think that is the right answer. But here is what I would also say. Barack Obama tries to distract us from his lack of a plan to defeat ISIS by talking about gun control. Donald Trump is attempting and succeeding in distracting us from the reality that he has no plan and no experience to defeat ISIS by talking about a ban on all Muslims which will never happen. What we need to be talking about is what the plan to defeat ISIS? I have one here at home and abroad. That is when we ought to be talking about.
HANNITY: Carly Fiorina, always good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
FIORINA: Nice to see you, Sean.
HANNITY: And when we come back, we need your help, a very important "Question of the Day" straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And time for a question of the day. We now know that ISIS is trying to infiltrate the Syrian refugees coming into America. So should the administration stop taking in Syrian refugees until we fix the problem? I think it's an obvious answer. Go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think.
Unfortunately, that is all the time we have this evening. Thank you for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
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