How the US should respond to a heightened state of alert
ISIS releases new video amid homegrown terror warnings from FBI, DHS; Dr. Sebastian Gorka sounds off on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 24, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, protests growing in the streets of an American city now on edge after police release video of a violent confrontation.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Chicago, Illinois tonight bracing for an angry response after the release of graphic police dash cam video showing a white police officer shooting and killing a black 17-year-old young man. We have that video. We will examine it later in the show. But in the hours before it went public tonight, the officer was charged with first-degree murder. And now we are seeing live pictures of people marching through the streets of Chicago while the mayor there is calling for calm. Our own Mike Tobin is live in the middle of the protests. Mike.
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Megyn. I think you're talking to me. It's hard to hear you through all of the demonstration that's going on. The chant they got at this moment is we are going to be all right. We're watching them. Here we go. Some of the people are getting a little bit rowdy but it would be wrong to characterize this demonstration as something that's too rowdy, all of hand. All they're doing for the most part is marching. And sometimes they block off the intersection, they all hold hands. One of the new chants that they're doing is that they count up to 16.
All right. We're going to get a little bit of the vulgarity and we have seen that with so many of these demonstrations before. But really the characterize is what they're doing for the most part is walking around from street to street. We're in an area of town right now called the south loop. They blocked a few intersections. Their numbers are growing as we're watching them. The rowdiness is growing throughout the evening but we really haven't seen anything that would characterize us out of hand -- Megyn.
KELLY: Mike, what do they say they want?
TOBIN: Well, there are a few different demands going on. Reverend Jesse Jackson had a press conference today saying that he wants to see other officers indicted. He also wants to see the State Attorney Anita Alvarez taken off the case because it took so long to bring charges in this case. From the demonstrators here right now, they say, they just don't want to have what they characterize as racist or violent police -- Megyn.
KELLY: Mike, standby. Just want to bring our viewers up to speed as we just mentioned, this involves a shooting by a white police officer of the 17-year-old black man who was carrying a knife. We're going to show you the video in just a bit. But we want to be responsible with it because it is disturbing. But the black young man is clearly walking away from cops when the white police officer shoots him 16 times dead. It happened a year ago. Only tonight were murder charges announced in this case. It's taken the prosecutor one year to decide to charge this officer. And when you see the videotape, you've got to still frame of it right here on screen right. You will understand why people are questioning the timing.
Why did it take so long? Police officers across the board have been condemning what they see on this tape in just the past couple of hours but what's happening now is some are trying to extrapolate this to a larger narrative and trying to use it as proof in their view that police are bad, they are out to hurt young black men and they see this as more proof of the narrative that is been growing in some cities in this country and certainly among the Black Lives Matter movement. Which is taken to the streets of Chicago tonight in particular we're told there on Michigan Avenue, also referred to as magnificent mile. Because they want to make a point in that neighborhood as well that they will be heard on the issue of what they consider to be bad cops, out for blood in some cases. Whether that is fair, we are going to get into in just a bit as we go deeper on this case and we keep our eyes on the protest there which Mike Tobin will do for us. But first we have to get you some other news on the terrorist situation.
Breaking just this evening, the White House just announced that the President will meet with his team tomorrow about Homeland Security after the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security today shared a new and chilling warning ordering more than 18,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for ISIS inspired terrorist attacks here as we head into the holiday weekend. This is different from the State Department's travel warning yesterday that was global and didn't include America. This one was for Americans in the homeland and specifically directed those charged with protecting us here.
Now the two federal agencies tasked with keeping us safe at home are tonight warning that extremists already here in America could, quote, "Seek to replicate the effects of the Paris attacks using similar weapons and tactics." They say, the would be terrorists would likely look to what police call soft targets. Not typically guarded by government military or law enforcement and with those warnings come a new video from the Islamic State terror group and what could be its most highly produced propaganda video yet. We have a strong line-up for you tonight on all the news including presidential candidate and Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
Dr. Sebastian Gorka is here. The chair of Military Theory at the Marine Corp University. But we want to kick it off tonight with our Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge who is live in our Washington newsroom with exactly what the Feds are worried about. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you, Megyn. The nine page bulletin from Homeland Security and the FBI comes on the eve of the Thanksgiving Holiday and it warns that ISIS followers in the U.S. could attempt copycat attacks using improvise explosive devices and guns like they did in Paris. FOX News told that the bulletin places had the emphasis it on the vulnerability of so-called soft targets such as the restaurants, the sports stadiums and concert hall targeted 11 days ago. It warns that ISIS has shown its intent and capability to move beyond government, military and law enforcement buildings which are heavily protected.
The Bolton also speaks to the high degree of operational security demonstrated by the Paris attackers. It's specifically mentioned a smartphone recovered by authorities which contained apps for encrypted communications that hide message traffic from authorities. Significantly the bulletin instructs local police to review their active shooter plans as New York City did on the weekend and it emphasizes that the Paris SWAT team waited 35 minutes to storm the concert hall and then in future police must act faster.
Also late today ISIS releasing a new four minute video in English directed at the United States with the tag line, bring it on. It is highly produced on Fox News ongoing reporting has shown it required professional equipment and editing to render the special effects. Homeland security says, there's no specific or credible threat but that has to be seen in the context of encrypted communications. And tonight U.S. officials say, the threat environment is extremely fluid heading into the busiest travel day of the year -- Megyn.
KELLY: Katherine Herridge, thank you.
Joining me now with more insight on the situation is Dr. Sebastian Gorka, distinguished chair of military theory at the Marine Corps University and a counterterrorism instructor for the FBI and U.S. Special Forces. He is also the co-author of a new report by the threat knowledge group on ISIS and it's threat within our borders and what the U.S. should be doing about it.
Doctor, good to see you tonight. And so that, speak to that point that Catherine just made which is, they say there's no specific credible threat. But the problem is, ISIS has learned to encrypt its communication. And so, how can we ever be sure whether we're on the verge of another attack or not.
DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, CHAIR, MILITARY THEORY AT THE MARINE CORP UNIVERSITY: Well, as long as they're out there. As long as we haven't crossed ISIS on the global Jihadi movement, we will be at danger. The report gives you the details that we have had in the last 20 months. Eighty two people arrested or killed on U.S. oil that are members of ISIS and they're the most frightening statistic is that of those people almost 30 percent, 28 percent of those weren't interested in going to the Middle East. They didn't want to go in Jihad in Syria or Iraq. They had decided that the best way was to serve the new caliph, the new emperor of Islam was to kill Americans on U.S. soil.
So, I am not surprised that this warning came out after the State Department's travel warning. This DHS, FBI alert. The fact is ISIS is already here. We have been intercepting them but they haven't given up and if we look at the fact that the unclassified documents tell us there's at least 4,000 westerns that have gone to join ISIS. Those are people with western passports, American passports and British passports. They'll have freedom of movement. That's the threat to America. It's real. It's actual -- Megyn.
KELLY: How significant -- I mean, how important would it be to ISIS terrorists here in the United State that it's a holiday week? I mean, that is something that is sacred to many Americans.
GORKA: The essence of terrorism is to instill fear. That is the main, that's the transmission belt of power if you will. And they know that they can't go up against person or direct fight. If this was, you know, a nation to nation war, we'd crashed them. But if we go off the soft targets, as Catherine mentioned, that's exactly what we're talking about. They want to go after large concentrations of civilians. It's exactly like the marathon bombing in Boston. It's like the Twin Towers. They want to attack people who aren't ready, in high concentrations and to send a message of fear across the western world and across the U.S., population. And as a result you need to be on your guard. Americans need to be tactically aware and they need to be observant of what's going on around them, especially now during Thanksgiving.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Dr. Gorka, thank you, sir.
GORKA: Thank you.
KELLY: Well, there's also breaking news about yet another suspect believed to be linked to the attacks in Paris and the threat he represents. Look at this.
Plus, we have some horrifying new details about the ringleader of this entire attack in Paris and what he decided to do right after unleashing the bloody wave of terror. We'll speak about it next with Morten Storm, a former member of al Qaeda turned double agent for the CIA. He will tell us what this means and what that man's conduct means and what we should be looking for.
And then President Obama raised some eyebrows today with a speech he gave about taking on the terrorists. Presidential candidate Ted Cruz is here on that and on his poll numbers just out of Iowa.
Plus, the tone we are hearing from the protesters in Chicago is getting more intense as this march grows bigger. We're monitoring it. We will bring you back live to this situation in moments. Don't go away.
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KELLY: If you are just joining us tonight, we're watching protests growing now on the streets of Chicago where an angry response is shaping us tonight after the release of graphic police dash cam video showing a white police officer shooting and killing a black teenager. A man who had a knife in his hand but who was running away from the cops at the time he was shot and killed. And shot 16 times. We have got that video for you. We will examine it responsibly later in the show but in the hours before this thing went public, this tape, the police officer was charged with first- degree murder and we are seeing live pictures of the people marching through the streets of Chicago while the mayor there is calling for calm. Back with an update in a moment.
Also breaking tonight, an international manhunt is now underway for yet another terror suspect believed to be linked to the Paris terror attacks. Mohamed Abrini is described as dangerous and probably armed. We had not heard about this guy prior to today. This comes as we learned chilling new details about the now dead ringleader of those attacks. Prosecutors say he actually returned to the attack scene to inspect his handiwork after the attack. Even while police were still there. What more authorities now believe that they stopped him just hours before he planned to carry out yet another attack on Paris.
Benjamin Hall reports from Brussels, Belgium. Benjamin.
BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, amazing details coming from the aftermath of the Paris attacks as the Paris prosecutor announces that the ringleader Abaaoud returned to the Bataclan Concert Hall while the operation to free the hostages were still underway. Telephone analysis show that Abdelhamid Abaaoud had returned to the scene when 90 people were killed not long before French President Francois Hollande visited. The prosecutor saying that he had boarded a metro going to the center of Paris and the phone he was believed to be using was detected there.
Meanwhile, the manhunt for the attacker at large Salah Abdeslam continues and has moved to German towns. A security of the borders have being extended leading many people to again question how easy it is to travel through the continent. Salah is now believed to have ditched his suicide vest in Paris after one was found by street -- but he is still considered armed and dangerous. Also today, a new lead, the police have put out an arrest warrant for another man who may have been involved. Mohamed Abrini was seen with the fugitive Salah Abdeslam at a gas station two days before the attacks and was driving the Reno Clio that was used in one of the drive-by shootings. He is also a Belgium citizen.
The question now is, were there more? The fact that more names are coming you but few arrests have been made is creating growing tensions here in Brussels where the city has been in lockdown. All schools, subways and many shops have been closed for days. The sun will finally reopen tomorrow. The city of Brussels is now a ghost town and people are telling me that this just can't continue. The economy is in free fall. Hotels are running empty. Tourists are staying away and everyone is afraid -- Megyn.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Benjamin, thank you. Well, after the ringleader admired the devastation he unleashed on Paris, reports suggests he was spotted days later hanging out in clear views seemingly without a care in the world. In fact, witnesses say he was even drinking despite the fact that alcohol is forbidden in Islam. And my next guest knows exactly what goes on with these terrorists behind closed doors. He's a former member of al Qaeda turned double agent for the CIA.
Morten Storm is the co-author of "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al Qaeda and the CIA." He is with us tonight. Morten, thank you for being here. So, let's just start with that. What would a terrorists? What would an Islamic extremist be doing boozing it up and allegedly smoking pot after he committed Jihad?
MORTEN STORM, FORMER CIA DOUBLE AGENT INSIDE AL QAEDA: Well, I don't know about him smoking pot. But what I do know is that it's permissible, according to Islam, Sharia, and according to, you know, the warfare to trick the enemy to make them believe that you are part of that society you are going to infiltrate or going to attack. It's well-known and even at times Prophet Mohammed, he had a poet killed and assassinated and he asked the companions who would like to kill him? One of the companions say, I would do it. But you need to allow me to say and do whatever I like. Prophet Mohamed say, I give you the permission.
So, the guy he pretended to be from amongst the enemies. That's how he tricked them to get close to the person and he killed the person. And from my experience, as a double agent also infiltrating al Qaeda, you know, it was a common knowledge that you were given permission to shave your beards, to (INAUDIBLE) disbelievers, to mingle in between the masses. Also, I mean, that was very known. I have personally traveled around with suicide bombers in Lebanon and they also shaved their beards and pretended to be non-Muslims or non-practicing Muslims.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
STORM: And you know, in my book you can read that Anwar al-Awlaki gave permission to Aminah, the wife sent to him, he gave her permission to unreal herself, to take her hijab off. And then go to the Yemini Embassy in Vienna and apply for her visa there.
KELLY: So you're allowed to befriend, you know, non-Muslims if you're radical Islamist, you're allowed to befriend non-Muslims. You might not have the beard. You might be drinking. There were reports of this guy drinking scotch or hard liquor and maybe it's a ruse, I don't know, why would this guy be drinking beer after the attack. At this point do you think he's trying to blend in or is it possible that some of these Jihadist aren't quite that faithful to the rule of Prophet Muhammad?
STORM: You know, some of the -- for 9/11, some of the terrorists involved in that, were discovered to be in night clubs, you know? Even the weeks before this happening. And that's the way that they avoid the radar of the intelligence services is because they get that permission to almost -- they will pray in the house, they will pray, you know, where nobody see them to avoid that attention and they're not allow to befriend these believers anyway. It's just pretending to be amongst them.
KELLY: Wow! Morten, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.
STORM: Thank you very much. Thank you.
KELLY: Well, President raised some eyebrows today with a speech he gave about taking on the terrorists as the French president paid a visit and presidential candidate Ted Cruz is here on that, next.
Plus, things are getting increasingly tense in the middle of these Chicago protests. We'll take you back live to Mike Tobin in moments.
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KELLY: Breaking tonight in a "Kelly File" exclusive. We have new reaction from a top GOP presidential candidate after President Obama today suggested he is ready to take a tougher stand against the Islamic State terror group, yet then made a pivot sort of to climate change. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This barbaric terrorist group poses a serious threat to all of us. It cannot be tolerated. It must be destroyed. We cannot and we will not succumb to fear. Next week I will be joining President Hollande and world leaders in Paris for the global climate. What a powerful rebuke to the terrorists it will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, presidential candidate and Republican Senator from Texas Ted Cruz. Senator, good to see you tonight. So, President Obama came out and tried to strike a tougher tone on the subject of ISIS today. What did you make of it?
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Megyn, it's good to be with you. You know, it's gotten to the point where I don't think "Saturday Night Live" can even parody this president anymore. A couple of weeks ago, he went overseas and he said he's not interested in America leading, he's not interested in America winning, he doesn't have time for that. And now he's saying what a powerful rebuke it is to ISIS that he's going to a global warming summit.
KELLY: Well, in Paris. In Paris.
CRUZ: I mean, how out of touch yes -- but his focus, listen, President Obama and John Kerry have both said that they think essentially your SUV in the driveway is a greater threat to our security than is ISIS, than is a nuclear Iran and it makes no sense whatsoever. You know what it would be a real rebuke to ISIS when we kill the terrorists before they carry out another terror attack here at home murdering innocent Americans.
KELLY: Let me ask you. When you listening to him, he said today, this is a barbaric group, that there's a serious threat that they must be destroyed. Do you think this was in reaction to the criticism he received over his initial reaction to the Paris attacks or do you take him at his word on what he said today?
CRUZ: Well, look, he's finally using the adjectives for ISIS that he usually reserves for Republicans and for conservatives. So, I guess that's a step in the right direction. But at the end of the day, he still refuses to utter the words radical Islamic terrorism. He still has no strategy for defeating ISIS and he still wants to bring to America tens of thousands of Syrian Muslim refugees even after his own FBI director admitted this administration cannot vet the refugees to ensure they're not ISIS terrorists, that doesn't make any sense.
KELLY: Let me shift gears with you now to the politics. Because there's been an extraordinary shift in the presidential race. You may be familiar with it. And to your benefit, I mean, all the headlines today were about Ted Cruz. And Cruz control in Iowa. Take a look at the numbers for the viewers that haven't seen it. Ted Cruz is now basically tied for first. He's behind Donald Trump by two points but man, you're right there in the margin of error in Iowa besting Carson and the rest of the field by at least five points. What do you make of it? To what do you attribute your surge?
CRUZ: Well, listen the energy and momentum we're saying both in Iowa and nationally are nothing short of breathtaking. And this is a continuation of what has been happening steadily after the third debate after the fourth debate, which is that we're seeing conservatives unite behind our campaign. What Washington has always wanted is to divide conservatives. To have a splinter. A chunk of conservatives here, chunk of evangelicals, a chunk of libertarians, a chunk of Tea Party folks. It's a mistake we've made over and over and over again whether it was Bob Dole or John McCain or Mitt Romney. Every time we listen to the voice of run to the middle we get clobbered. It doesn't work. They're all good honorable men. But what they did didn't work and I think what Republican primary voters are looking for is the strongest proven conservatives. If someone is a consistent conservative, someone is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and also someone who can unite all three legs of the Republican stool that --
KELLY: But are you in trouble now on the NSA --
CRUZ: Social conservatives and national security conservatives.
KELLY: You voted to undo the NSA, which is now -- now you're getting hit by some on the right. But you're the mainstream moderate guy they say. They say, you voted onto the NSA --
CRUZ: Megyn, let's -- let's speak the truth. I'm not getting hit by anyone on the right.
KELLY: There's a new ad.
CRUZ: I'm getting hit by a PAC -- yes. By a PAC supporting Marco Rubio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Our leaders must keep America safe but when Ted Cruz had the chance to fight Barrack Obama's dangerously weak anti-terror policies, he didn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Marco Rubio's PAC is doing this.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
CRUZ: Because they desperately want to change the discussion from his longtime support of President Obama's massive amnesty plan. This PAC ad by Rubio supporter where they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, less than what it really is Megyn. It's a sign of desperation. They want to try to change the topic because I think Marco's campaign is determined that his longtime support of Chuck Schumer and Barrack Obama's amnesty plans, particularly making it easier to bring Syrian Muslim refugees into this country that now they're worried about it politically so they want to change it with a false attack ad.
KELLY: And the latest poll show the public of 67 percent there against letting the refugees in. Senator Ted Cruz, it's always great talking to you. Thank you for being here.
CRUZ: Thank you, Megyn. It's great to be with you.
Back now to the breaking news out of Chicago where the crowds are getting larger and we are learning more about what they are now demanding after the release of video showing police shooting a 17-year-old black man. We will play the video for you next. It is disturbing. We want to be responsible with it. And we will let you decide how you think the police handled this and whether it serves a greater narrative as some are claiming, about police in the United States of America. Stay tuned.
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KELLY: -- shooting a 17-year-old black man. We will play the video for you next. It is disturbing. We want to be responsible with it. And we will let you decide how you think the police handled this and whether it serves a greater narrative as some are claiming, about police in the United States of America.
Stay tuned.
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KELLY: Breaking tonight, growing protests in Chicago after police release graphic video showing a white police officer shooting and killing a 17-year-old black man. It happened more than one year ago in October 2014, and it took that long for the prosecutor in the case to charge this officer with first-degree murder. She admits the timing was linked to today's court ordered release of the video. We warn you that the video is disturbing, it is graphic. We will only show it one time. There is no audio. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP -- NO AUDIO)
KELLY: A police car drives up from behind on a man in a hooded sweatshirt. You can see him running down the middle of the street. There he is, right there. He starts to walk. More police arrived. Two officers get out. Their guns are drawn and within six seconds, here it is, of arriving, that officer shoots this teen dead. He was shot 16 times. He was killed. He was shot only a few times while he was still standing all the rest were after he had fallen. We've chosen not to show you the repeated shooting as the victim lay motionless on the street.
Mike Tobin is now live in the middle of the protest tonight. This cop has been charged with first-degree murder. What specifically are they complaining about? Are they upset about tonight, Mike?
MICHAEL TOBIN, FOX NEWS CHICAGO-BASED CORRESPONDENT: Well, Megyn, let me bring in one of the demonstrators out here. This is Eric Briggs (ph). You're out here tonight. What are you trying to get done?
ERIC BRIGGS (ph), PROTEST DEMONSTRATOR: To shine (ph) accomplish justice for people.
TOBIN: Now, you accomplish justice?
BRIGGS (ph): We're kind of a large (ph) trying to get word out.
TOBIN: And word that about what?
BRIGGS (ph): Everything that's been on aside (ph) three years, the past 50 years whatever. This is getting worse and worse and.
TOBIN: Not satisfied with the first three murder charge?
BRIGGS (ph): Not really. He's still getting paid almost a year afterwards. It's not just one police. It's multiple polices, whole police department, whole police in our country is not OK.
(CROSSTALK)
TOBIN: That (ph).
BRIGGS (ph): Everything has been going on.
TOBIN: You've seen the video, what do you think?
BRIGGS (ph): I thought it was heartbreaking. It's should not happen.
TOBIN: All right. Thank you very much. Now, Megyn, let's take a look around. We got a pretty thick crowd. As you mentioned earlier, it is growing throughout the night. You really can't call it a rowdy crowd. We have something that -- I wouldn't characterize it as a standoff but they've come up to District One here on the Southside of Chicago. And you have a line of police. So, talk -- well, it has -- OK. Go, go ahead. Tell me what you want to talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is an attorney here to see the people that are locked up. The police are ignoring the attorney and denying people their basic rights. If the media is here to help, they need to catch the unlawful things that the police are doing at this very moment.
TOBIN: Got it. OK. You hear a complaint there that someone wants to get in and talk to some inmates who are being held inside of presumably there's a jail inside of this building here at District One, and they're not getting through. That's something that they want right now. Other than that, you've got a line of police. It would be wrong to say that the police have a hard profile. I'd call it a soft profile.
You don't see any of the riot gear (ph). I hear -- mostly what we see are bike cops. If you can see that row of police who are standing behind them is a row of bike police. And for the most part as the demonstrators move out through the -- through the street, they secure the intersections and sometimes the demonstrators blocked the intersections and sometimes, there's OK -- nobody gave you a chance to talk. OK
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have a power and the ability to help us. I needed you.
(CROSSTALK)
TOBIN: And we'll that's the situation right now and some people want to be heard on their own agenda right now, Megyn.
KELLY: Mike, what has the mayor of Chicago said tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . say and that needs to be the new.
TOBIN: Well, the mayor of Chicago, right -- the mayor -- Rahm Emanuel made an effort to get out in front of all of this tonight and tried to calm people down and say that they do have the right to be angry, and they do have the right to demonstrate, but his message that he tried to get to was that they should use this as an opportunity to build bridges and not build dividers of misunderstanding.
Now, we talk here -- yes, let me talk to you real quick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want face rep (ph).
TOBIN: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rahm Emanuel needs to be impeached. He knew this happened 12 months ago. Everyone, all of those police officers that saw the shooting, they need to be fired. They need to go to jail just like the man that shot that boy down needs to be convicted for murder. All of those six officers need to arrest (ph) -- need to be fired, right now today. Rahm Emanuel needs to be impeached today.
TOBIN: Now, we've heard that, Megyn, that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Black lives matter in Chicago. I have children. I have grandchildren and that boy got shot down was like one of my -- one of my kids.
TOBIN: OK. And Megyn, we have that already. We've heard that from operation PUSH and the Reverend Jesse Jackson earlier today. He said that Anita Alvarez needs to be taken off of this case because it took so long to bring charges more than a year. We have heard from him also suggestions that the other officers who were there on the scene need to be included in some way in terms of criminal charges because they saw what happened and you hear this complaint that we just heard from the crowd that it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accessory to murder. That's what it was.
ROBIN: Right. Accessory to murder is their claim. That it took a long time to bring the charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rahm Emanuel needs to be impeached.
TOBIN: . and the police weren't part of it, and they weren't part of expediting that anyway, Megyn.
KELLY: All right. Mike Tobin. We're going to come back to you in a moment. We're going to keep live shot up; however, they don't need to see. Let's see what's happening in Chicago. But we want to go to our panel. Live with us tonight. Host of Dana on TheBlaze TV, Dana Loesch; former New York City Police Commissioner, Bernie Kerik; and nationally-syndicated radio host, Richard Fowler. Mark Eiglarsh and Arthur Aidala will also join us in a moment. Thank you all for being here.
So, Dana, you and the usual defenders of the police are saying this one is different. This looks terrible. And I've heard many cops say it looks inexcusable.
DANA LOESCH, HOST OF DANA ON THEBLAZE TV: Well the question I have, Megyn, is what is -- what is the policy for Chicago police? What is the policy here? I mean, is it to neutralize a threat or is it to eliminate a threat? I mean, 16 shots? I mean, I'm assuming that the officer carried a Glock (ph) that's 15 and the magazine one in the chamber. He unloaded all of that, and as you were discussing in the video, the first couple of shots were when the -- where when McDonald was standing, and then after he fell and after he was no longer a threat, was there a need to continue firing at that point? That's something that I would really like to hear from the police department on.
KELLY: Yes. Commissioner Kerik, your thoughts on it because, you know, your typically in a position of defending these cops in this situations. Can you defend this?
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: You know what, Megyn, not really -- look, I've been involved in gun battles. My partner was shot in a gun battle I was involved in. I have to say, as to Dana's question, one, you don't shoot to kill, you don't shoot to warn, you shoot to stop. First of all there was no imminent threat that I see.
KELLY: And he was -- and I just want to interrupt you because we didn't tell to televiewers but police were responding to complaints about somebody breaking into cars and stealing radios. An autopsy report shows that McDonald was on PCP, hallucinogenic drug in his system. But then -- and I know we're still going to show the video once, but I do want the audience to see what we're talking about. He was walking with a knife. A three inch knife, they said. But he was walking away from the officers. If we could just show that one -- one more time, I just want to show what I'm talking about.
You can see Commissioner. Here he is going down the road and then you'll see it appears that he is walking away from the officers toward a fence when the cop who pulls up who's now been charged gets out of the car and just opens fire. Go ahead.
KERIK: And, Megyn, it has to be -- there has to be imminent threat to the cop or the general public. There doesn't appear to be, and then, you have the cop firing the first two rounds that takes the subject down. Why he had to fire 14 additional rounds, I cannot answer. I can't -- I don't really have an explanation for it.
KELLY: Yes. Richard, the cop has been charged with first-degree murder, but it took 13 months.
RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: Thirteen months too long, Megyn. Thirteen months too long. I think the people -- the protesters in Chicago, what they're saying is exactly right. This prosecutor took 13 months to charge this police officer, and let's be very clear. Mr. McDonald's character is not in question here. Officers Van Dyke's character is in question. Eighteen times, he's had different citizen complaints. Two of those in which there was excessive force, there was no disciplinary action taken by the Chicago Police Department. There's so many red hands on this. That's unbelievable.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And there was an allegation of misusing the N word and other racially charge.
(CROSSTALK)
FOWLER: I believe it. He shot him 16 times, Megyn.
KELLY: You know, Richard, do you -- do you agree as others have posited tonight though that this is -- this -- this has a greater suicidal narrative because we heard the Charles Blow of the Washington Post over on a network tonight -- another network saying, he doesn't want to analyze these cases on a case by case basis anymore. It's -- it's time to paint with a broader brush and say society has a problem.
FOWLER: You -- you -- and -- Charles Blow is exactly right. This is a -- this is not even a black or a white or a Democrat or Republican issue. This is an issue of humanity. I can go down the laundry list of cities, whether it's West Charleston. Whether it's Charleston, whether it's Ferguson, New York City, now Chicago.
KELLY: Right.
FOWLER: . Cleveland. It's happening all across the country. This is a time for Americans no matter what party you belong to. to take a step back and say, "We have a huge.
KELLY: Yes.
FOWLER: . problem here, and we really got to.
KELLY: Stand by, Richard.
FOWLER: . come together as a nation to solve this."
KELLY: Stand by. We're going to pick this up on the other side. Dana will respond.
LOESCH: Yes, Megyn. Yes.
KELLY: Hold on, on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: And we're back now with the breaking news out of Chicago, Illinois where protesters are marching in and around downtown Chicago in the wake of murder charges being brought, first-degree murder charges is being brought against a police officer who shot and killed a 17-year-old black man one year ago. Dana Loesch, your thoughts on whether this does speak to a greater suicidal issue.
LOESCH: I do think that we have a greater suicidal issue but -- but a couple of quick points here, Megyn. First off, and this is not to excuse the actions of Officer Van Dyke. I, very much, want to hear the justification and his reasoning for emptying his entire magazine after the threat has been neutralized, but he was responding to a call. Someone had called in a threat and that individual was a young man who was on PCP and who's waving around a knife in the middle of the street. I think that it is disingenuous to ignore that fact.
Secondly, whenever anyone includes Ferguson, St. Louis is my hometown; Ferguson is the result of someone choosing to act in a criminal manner. You had a man named Mike Brown, who chose to strong arm rob, on camera, a store then according to numerous forensic reports, Megyn, he went after a cop's gun. He had gun residue on his hands.
KELLY: Yes.
LOESCH: When you try to go after a cop with his own gun after strong arm robbing a store, you could be met with lethal force. That is.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: That cop was exonerated -- that cop was exonerated.
LOESCH: Yes.
KELLY: And -- and that's specific officer.
LOESCH: That anybody (ph) is excluded.
KELLY: . should not be included in the.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well.
KELLY: . in the.
LOESCH: That's right.
KELLY: . Ferguson -- Ferguson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Megyn?
KELLY: . itself had issues with cops. Hold on.
LOESCH: Yes.
KELLY: . Commissioner, because I want to get Commissioner Kerik and, you know, Commissioner, so often when we see an event like this we see many folks rush to condemn police at large.
KERIK: You know what, Megyn, I think you have to keep it in context. I know there's a lot of people that want a blood brush. The reality is cops make 20 million arrests a year, 20 million about throughout the United States. There's a lot of deadly physical force. There's a lot of things that happen in those arrests, physical confrontation. We take five -- 10 of these events a year and then we want to classify the entire police nation - - police -- police service as, you know, racist then and all the burnish (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I just want to jump in -- I just want to jump in, as we're seeing in an extraordinary moment. Look what's happening here.
KERIK: Well, you're going to -- listen, you're going to have guys like this, you know, they want to instigate, they want to --you want to create.
FOWLER: What is the instigating, Bernie? I'm sorry. I've got to interrupt.
KELLY: Richard, look at them.
(CROSSTALK)
FOWLER: What is the instigating?
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: The cop out there accused of doing nothing wrong. He's trying to keep the peace.
FOWLER: And this - this part -- this is having a style of protest with the police officers. This is his First Amendment Right.
KELLY: He keeps right in his face and stares him down. This cop hasn't done anything wrong.
FOWLER: Well, that is the first -- that is this First Amendment Right, Megyn, and you out of all people, Megyn.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Getting the cop's face and stare him down.
FOWLER: . who believes the First Amendment -- I think -- this is his First Amendment Right. I don't understand.
KELLY: You think that's fine. You have no problem with this?
FOWLER: Into this First Amendment Right, the biggest problem here.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: It's not a question of what his Constitutional rights are. It's a question of what's appropriate.
FOWLER: And I see nothing wrong with this. I think what is inappropriate is this prosecutor took 13 months to prosecute this individual when this police officer had 18 different complaints against him from citizens of Chicago.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Correct.
(CROSSTALK)
LOESCH: Like what happened in united (ph) Democrat runs the city, Richard.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: . and no one here as far as I can tell is defending that officer. The question is what -- whether it speaks to a greater.
FOWLER: It is.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: . narrative as some allege and this moment here. Let me bring in Mark and Arthur. Mark, I want to ask, whether this prosecutor because now, the -- many of these protesters want her kicked off saying 13 months is too long.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR, AND LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's one or the other. Either she needed to wait that long because there are facts and circumstances that we're unaware of, and I find it hard to believe based upon that video, or she really did drag her feet. The question is why. I find it disturbing, Megyn.
KELLY: Arthur, your thoughts?
ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST ON FOX NEWS CHANNEL: I mean, the bottom line is -- the fact that he was on PCP is irrelevant, unless the police officer knew he was on PCP, then it would be relevant but there's no evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go.
AIDALA: . that he knew that he was on PCP, number one. Number two, he wasn't -- I don't think it was a call that he was a threat. I think it was a call that he was slashing tires and -- and stealing from a -- from a car. So, there's no excuse in that and, Megyn, here's the bottom line. If that was a civilian that executed a police officer on video, the way we saw it and it was 13 months before the indictment came down, that prosecutor would be forced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:: That's right.
AIDALA: . to resign.
KELLY: Commissioner Kerik, I want to go back to you on what we're seeing here on screen.
KERIK: Listen, you're seeing silent protest, you know, and I agree with Garry McCarthy said - -what he said earlier, the superintendent there. You know, they have a right to protest. They have a right to peacefully protest as long as it doesn't get out of hand, you know, then that's fine. They don't have a right to commit criminal conduct.
KELLY: How does a cop do his -- I mean, what is this like for a police officer? I mean, what.
KERIK: Well, listen, you know, you're going to have this kind of stuff, you know. People want to -- they want to make -- they want to make a name for themselves. They want the look good on camera.
FOWLER (?): Megyn?
KERIK: They want to, you know, whatever.
FOWLER: Stop that.
KELLY: Richard, I understand.
FOWLER (?): Megyn?
KELLY: . Richard, I understand the outrage. I get that. Everybody understands as we see that tape. I don't know what we just saw, your thoughts?
FOWLER: Megyn, I mean, here's the thing, Megyn. This outrage, this is not the first time that the African-American community is dealing with this. This is countless times over and over again. These young people are angry because their lives are literally in question on the streets of Chicago.
KELLY: That's right. But Richard, in Chicago, the -- the major problem is African-Americans killing other African-Americans.
FOWLER: The point is that their lives are in question. This police officer put 16 bullets into this young man for absolutely no reason. Absolutely no reason.
KELLY: OK. That -- that is certainly how the tape looks, but -- but the question is whether or why we don't see these kinds of protests when we see the crime statistics that we see in the -- in Inner City Chicago with black on black crime, Richard.
FOWLER: Listen, I think the - we're mixing apples and oranges here. We could talk about black-on-black crime and how we solve black-on-black crime, but what's -- what at -- what's in question today the people that put their hands on the Bible and swear to protect and serve the community are harming the community. And that is a problem, and it's not a Republican problem, it's not a Democratic problem, it's not a black problem.
KELLY: Yes.
FOWLER: . it' not a white problem, it's an American problem.
LOESCH: I would disagree slightly with the party affiliation because what's.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Hold on one second, Dana, because I want to go back to Mike.
FOWLER: That certainly doesn't -- it doesn't belong to any party.
KELLY: Stand by.
LOESCH: Why did -- why the manual not pursuit (ph) then.
KELLY: Let's see what's happening on the ground with Mike Tobin. Mike?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frame (ph) and do to jail. No, none.
KELLY: Mike, can you hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cooperation and order -- own the.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: OK. He can't hear me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They happen -- it changes sir (ph) and it doesn't include me.
KELLY: We're trying to hear some of what's happening from the protesters there and -- and get their message on TV, hear specifically what they say. As we told the viewers.
KERIK (?): Yes.
KELLY: . earlier, one of the things they're ticked off about is the delay in bringing this case. Now, the police -- the city, I should say, already agreed to a $5 million settlement with McDonald's family even before they filed a lawsuit. So, they -- they have no problem acknowledging liability in the case. But Arthur, there's -- that's not enough, and there's a question about whether the -- this case is going to be tried, can be tried in Chicago given the release of this video which you can bet the defense attorney is going to argue was too inflammatory.
AIDALA: I have no idea, at this point, with the little that we know what the defense would be because I think, Megyn, you said six seconds. He's out of the car for six seconds. He -- unless strictly (ph) -- they're going to hear a radio run, that's what he knows from what he's being told on the radio. Unless there's something there that he may have had a gun on him, but he's not that imminent threat that he would need to justify.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Stand by, Arthur, because I want to go to Mike now. Mike?
TOBIN: All right, coming up. Got it. Hi, Megyn. All right. We're keeping an eye on the situation here. And you see you've got some of the people with some of the angry talk. There's a little bit adult language there in what's going on and some people are trying to block our shot, and you could see we've got a line of police officers here and you got the demonstrators and that's just -- kind of how it's going.
The crowd --I can't really give you a good idea for how much the crowd has grown throughout the evening. But it's not a rowdy crowd and, again, police have a soft profile right how. They don't have the riot gear out here, mostly by cops in line right now with the soft profile trying to handle it as gently as they can. Megyn?
KELLY: And the protesters, Mike, I mean, from what we've seen seem to be obeying the law, but you tell us.
TOBIN: Largely obeying the law. I mean, the only thing they're doing is blocking some intersections and walking down the street. I haven't seen anything that I could really call a rowdy protest other than a lot of chanting, Megyn.
KELLY: And you could understand the message tonight. But Dana Loesch, the question is whether too many -- A, too many young black men are being shot by cops unjustifiably. And B, too many cops are being painted with the same brush. Thanks to the bad cops who engage in those acts.
LOESCH: And we've had a lot of cops shot, too, Megyn. We can't forget that either. There's been a rush (ph) of murder of police officers, but I do absolutely believe, I mean, again, St. Louis is my hometown and I grew up noticing the distrust between the black community and the police department there. And I've also seen some good and some bad leaders come in, and we've seen some elected officials that didn't have the police's back when they needed to and we've also seen some that have really stepped up.
But there has to be some sort, there has to be somebody -- something to bridge that gap in that community, and you can't - and for all of the individuals who have said, you know what? You need more black officers. You need more people to step up. I -- I think.
KELLY: Yes.
LOESCH: . that would be fantastic. But it's hard to recruit, Megyn, when you see them demonized so much nationally.
KELLY: Yes, and at a time when, you know, the good cops out there, we need them -- we need them badly. Stand by, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: The situation in Chicago growing tense tonight as you see police lining up outside of the Chicago Police Department building as some protesters would like to go inside. Our live coverage will continue now with Sean Hannity. Stay tuned.
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