Chicago releases video showing black teen's fatal shooting
Police officer charged with first-degree murder over teen's death; Reaction on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," November 24, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY: And this is a Fox News Alert. And you are looking live at protests in Chicago. The city is on edge tonight after the release of a police dashcam video showing an officer shooting a 17-year-old teenager.
We must warn you what we're about to show you is very graphic. Now, the video shows a white police officer shooting and killing a black teen, who authorities say -- and you can see -- was armed with a knife. The officer reportedly shot the teen 16 times during a 2014 incident and was charged today or yesterday with first degree murder.
Also tonight, we'll check in with Donald Trump.
But first, live on the ground in Chicago is our own Mike Tobin. Mike is in the middle of this crowd. Mike, what's going on?
MIKE TOBIN, FOX CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me go over to one of the demonstrators. This is Shannon Bennett (ph). And let me ask you, what are you trying to get done tonight?
SHANNON BENNETT, PROTESTER: Well, tonight, we're here to make sure we send a message that the black youth that has stepped up in our community deserves to be supported, they have a righteous cause, and that the things that have happened continuously in our community are about to end.
So part of what we're doing tonight is that we're drawing the line. A lot of the things that we're talking about -- it's not new. If not for technology, a lot of the messages would not get out. If these young people hadn't raised this issue, the charges would not have been brought against that cop. So that's an indictment on this city, this mayor, and everybody else who runs this system that continues to marginalize black lives.
TOBIN: Now, as far as the charges, first degree murder -- he's facing the potential of 20 to life. Is that enough?
BENNETT: He needs life.
(CROSSTALK)
TOBIN: No compromise?
BENNETT: Of course. That young man's life is not coming back. So from what I've heard about the video -- I've not seen the video yet -- he was walking away. So if that was not on camera -- other officers were around. No other officers pulled their gun. This cop was there for 30 seconds. He chose to take that young man's life. So a life for a life.
TOBIN: And you say the other cops who were there are somehow complicit because they...
BENNETT: I did not say that. I said those other cops did not move. They were there. You saw a squad car -- I saw a little bit of the tape -- a squad car go past the young man as he's walking away from the officer that eventually took his life.
TOBIN: Right. You think we can get through this without any violence in the city of Chicago?
BENNETT: I don't know. Violence begets violence. We don't want violence, but part of what's happened tonight, the reason we're here right now, is that the Chicago Police Department did what they normally do and continued to incite violence. So they cause riots.
So what happened tonight -- and you need to hear me -- is that young people were peacefully demonstrating, and the police officers incited the crowd and then turned it into something else. And they incarcerated three young people to continue this cycle when this was a peaceful march. So that's why we're here right now at this police station because of what the Chicago Police Department...
(CROSSTALK)
TOBIN: You saw three people get picked up tonight?
BENNETT: We were there, yes.
TOBIN: OK. I didn't see that.
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: That's why we're here.
TOBIN: ... to a sign right behind this gentleman. It says "Shame on you for a cover-up, 400 days to charges," talking about more than a year (INAUDIBLE) the charges. And the other one is that Rahm, meaning Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Anita, Anita Alvarez (ph), the state's attorney out here, and McCarthy, the police superintendent, they need to resign now. That's a message from that demonstrator's sign.
Let me come over to you. Pardon me. I forgot your name.
ORLANDO DIXON, PROTESTER: Orlando Dixon (ph).
TOBIN: All right, what are you trying to get done here tonight?
DIXON: The same as my brother said, just a peaceful march. They locked up some people for no reason. So just peace.
TOBIN: I heard some of the people saying here tonight that what they want is to be heard.
DIXON: Yes, heard, because it's hard to hear (INAUDIBLE)
TOBIN: But if you're heard, what's the message that you're trying to get out?
DIXON: Stop the racism. Stop the violence.
TOBIN: There you go. Fair enough.
All right, we've watched them throughout the evening, Sean, marching. There hasn't really been anything that I would characterize as trouble. I haven't seen big conflicts with the police.
If you go up to the front of this crowd right now, there's a row of police officers not with riot gear on, and there's a row of demonstrators not really confronting them, but chanting in front of them.
Most of the police that we've seen are bike cops. They'll go and block off the intersections to keep traffic out as the demonstrators are going through. Sometimes, the demonstrators will form a ring, a lot of chanting. One of the new chants we're hearing is "16 shots," in reference to the 16 shots that were fired into that young man, McDonald.
And that's it. We're watching it throughout the evening. The crowd has grown throughout the evening. Sometimes, they get a little rowdy. I want to be careful how I characterize that because you really don't -- thus far, anyway, I haven't seen a crowd that's out of control -- Sean.
HANNITY: All right, Mike Tobin, we'll be checking in throughout the night. Thank you, sir, for being with us.
Joining us now, The Black Sphere's Kevin Jackson, the attorney for Michael Brown and the Michael Brown family, Daryl Parks, former NYPD detective Bo Dietl and trial attorney Eric Guster.
All right, you just heard Mike Tobin describe the scene. We've been watching tonight. I want to go back to a moment that happened during Megyn Kelly's hour, and that is a staredown, one guy getting in the grill, getting in the face of a cop and just stand there and staring
Bo Dietl, as a cop, that is a form of intimidation, is it not?
BO DIETL, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I mean, he knew the camera was on him right there. The cop just held his own. You got to understand there's a lot of emotions running. Now what you got to do is you got to really stand down from that point. I know it's very difficult, but they're looking for a problem to occur...
HANNITY: Yes.
DIETL: ... and we don't want to make this more tumultuous than it is.
HANNITY: All right, we got to go back to the video and we got to ask some serious questions about this. Let's go back to the dashcam video that was released earlier tonight. Now, what you see is a young man, 16 years old, 17 years old. He has a knife in his right hand. As he's moving away from the police officers, these two cops approach him. Sixteen shots now were fired. He's down on the ground. You can even see powder coming up from a gunshot hitting the asphalt.
At that moment, let's talk, Bo, about police procedure. You're supposed to shoot to stop. He's at least 12 feet away and walking away from them. He's not a threat at that moment to anybody.
DIETL: The thing is this. We don't hear the audio. That's another part of this. They're yelling at him maybe, Drop the knife, drop the knife...
HANNITY: Or they think it's a gun.
DIETL: Well, I don't know. I wasn't there. I've not listened to the audio. But I do -- I saw the raw footage...
HANNITY: Right.
DIETL: ... when the guy was down and he was being hit with rounds. And as being a former, you know, New York City detective and cop...
HANNITY: No justification.
DIETL: ... I don't see when a guy's on the ground like that...
HANNITY: I don't see it, either.
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: And I'm sorry to say, I'd like to be supportive, but this one I can't support, someone who's on the ground getting shot 16 times.
HANNITY: All right, and you could see literally the asphalt from the gunshot...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... down on the ground.
DIETL: The raw footage shows him on the ground. He was moving a little bit, and he kept getting hit with the bullets. And to be honest with you, it's a very sad day for that police officer. But all cops, all cops are not guilty...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Eric, I want to go to you. He's moving away from the cops. There's the first car, the second car, the two cops come out. It' only one cop that makes the shot, 16 shots. He's down. Now you see that asphalt's come up after he's on the ground. And if you look at that, you have to ask why 16 shots when he's down?
ERIC GUSTER, ATTORNEY: And that's why so many people are furious about this, Sean. He was shot unjustifiably the first time. He was going away from the police officers. He was not a threat to the police officers. He was highly outnumbered, at least six to one.
HANNITY: The only thing I want to remind our audience -- now, I -- I -- the video is damning. I'm not -- I agree with Bo Dietl on this. But every cop has a right, like everybody else, the presumption of innocence. I want the hear the rest of the story. The only thing that might justify it -- and I don't think this is going to come out in the case -- would be if he thought he saw a gun and not a knife. And I think that's a far- fetched argument.
GUSTER: Sixteen shots on the ground, there's no...
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: I hate to agree...
HANNITY: I'm saying the first shot...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... if he thought it was a gun.
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: He was going away from the officer. Even if he thought it was a gun, he was walking away.
DIETL: Sean, Sean -- and when he's on the ground...
HANNITY: You don't shoot.
DIETL: ... I have to agree with Eric.
GUSTER: I agree with you.
DIETL: You don't shoot with the guy on the ground.
HANNITY: Absolutely not.
DIETL: Now, with that all said now, my biggest problem is all the good officers across this country that are doing their job now are going to be taken under this rap that they're all this corruption and they're killing all the blacks. And let's -- I don't want everyone to be convicted on this one cop's wrongdoing.
HANNITY: I've got some statistics about this. Now, this raises an important question. If you look at from November of 2014 to November 2015 -- let's put it up on the screen. The murders in Chicago from 2014 through November of 2015, you know, we've got 818 murders. Can any of you on this panel name one person, one name of one person shot? No.
GUSTER: Laquan McDaniel -- McDonald.
HANNITY: OK. I got it. But the answer is -- but that's my point. Nobody knows the names of these kids. Now, if we look at the shooting incidents in Chicago -- I'll put this up on the screen, in Chicago from 2014 through November 15th, 2015, 4,224! That number is enormous. Do you know the names of anybody else shot besides this kid?
GUSTER: And this is totally irrelevant to what we're talking about.
HANNITY: It's not!
GUSTER: No, because what...
HANNITY: It's not!
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: ... the issue of this young man being...
HANNITY: Let me bring Kevin in here.
GUSTER: ... on TV, on tape.
HANNITY: I'm saying it's not justified!
GUSTER: ... 12 months to even be prosecuted.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I think that's a problem, too, actually. Good point. But let me go to Kevin. I want to ask you this question. This is important. We don't know the names of any of those 4,224 people shot, 818 killed! And I understand the outrage. I don't like this video. Bo doesn't like this video. It's never justified when somebody's not a threat to you to shoot, and it's not justified to shoot when the guy's on the ground.
But here's the problem. There's been so much violence, so many shootings, so many murders, we can't name one other person! That's problematic to me. That tells me this is selective outrage and a narrative that people are advancing. Thoughts.
KEVIN JACKSON, THE BLACK SPHERE: That's exactly right, Sean. And I know Eric would like to dismiss the many blacks that are killed by other blacks, and the Black Lives Matter movement does the same thing. But the fact -- there are lots of things we need to consider. First of all, what we need to consider is the fact that the people who were hiding the video, the people who run the cops in the city of Chicago, have all been Democrats. They've been Democrats for years.
And I heard somebody say earlier on another program that this has been decades in the works. Well, it's been decades of Democrats being involved with this, running the police, and suddenly, it's now an issue?
And as far as this goes, to Bo's point, you can't condemn -- what they tend to do, Sean, is everybody wants to sound the warning bell every time an incident like this occurs. Now, in this particular case, it looks like this cop did something bad. and what did the police do, late? They're indicting him. He's going to be charged with murder. Who knows what's going to happen.
But what Rahm Emanuel and the chief of police did or the superintendent of police did today was do everything they could to say, Don't destroy our city over a single incident, and that...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: There is an issue of politics that's involved here, Kevin, and that is this happened before the mayor's last election.
JACKSON: That's right.
HANNITY: I think Eric has a good point. Why did this take a year? They had this dashcam video for a year. They knew that they were probably going to indict this cop a year ago because of the video. And why wasn't a grand jury convened earlier? I think Eric makes a very valid...
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: I have to say one thing, Sean. I totally agree. There's no way that this should have taken a year. This is...
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: ... and if there's a cover-up, that mayor should go and that chief of police. I know McCarthy. This is wrong. This thing should have been prosecuted a year ago!
HANNITY: Yes. Let me get Daryl Parks in here. Daryl, I know you and I have disagreed on Trayvon Martin and the Michael Brown case. I'm kind of thinking we might agree here. I don't like what I see on this video. Somebody's innocent until being proven guilty. But he's moving away from the cops. I can see the knife in the video. I don't know if the cops thought it was a gun or not. But you don't shoot a guy that far away and you don't shoot a guy that's on the ground.
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN FAMILY: Without question, Sean. And let me also add to that. We now know that this cop had a pretty bad history all along, too. This cop had at least eight excessive use of forces claims against him in the past, and probably 18 other complaints against the officer, as well.
Those are serious concerns. This guy should have never been on the street whatsoever.
And what do we see? Thanks to this video, we see him over this kid, shooting this kid while he's on the ground. This is dead wrong.
And the bigger problem, though, it took so long. And one thing that we have found in these cases, justice delayed is justice denied. That's just what we have here.
HANNITY: All right, we got to take a break, guys. When we come back, we'll have the very latest from Chicago on the ground. We have reporters there to update you, and much, much more as we continue straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And this is a Fox News Alert. Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke has been officially charged with first degree murder for the death of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. And tonight, the situation in the Windy City remains very tense.
We get back to our panel. All right, let me go back to Daryl Parks. Daryl, you and I have had our disagreements. I understand people seeing this video being outraged. I'm also outraged at the amount of time it took to release this dashcam video, and it took going into a courtroom to get it released, and the fact that this guy was moving away from the cops, then he got shot, and then he got shot more when he was on the ground. It doesn't make sense.
PARKS: Without question, Sean. And I think what you see from the public, though, the young people, is the outrage that, one, as you said, it took so long to come out with the video itself, and it took a judge to make them give the video to the public. And now the people want answers as to why it took so long from the prosecutor. And they have not given the public a good reason why it took so long. One reason they gave was that...
HANNITY: All right, Daryl, let me ask you this...
(CROSSTALK)
PARKS: Yes.
HANNITY: I asked Bo and I asked Eric earlier. I'm going to put up on the screen again, since 2014 through November 15, 2015, 818 people killed in Chicago! Between that same period of time, 4,224 incidents, gun incidents, shooting incidents in Chicago!
Now, Daryl, I love you. You're my friend. Do you know the name of any one of those 4,224 people? Do you know the name of any of them?
PARKS: I remember the young girl that was killed in the park that received a lot of publicity.
But Sean, I think we -- there are two different things here. First of all, that's tragic. All the black-on-black violence is bad in Chicago. However, we have to distinguish when we have police officers who are sworn, who are paid by the public -- when they take a life, that's different. That's a whole different issue.
JACKSON: Hey, Sean...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not a cop issue (ph).
JACKSON: Sean, let me -- let me -- Sean, let me jump in here real quickly. Look, we've had -- the people who held this tape were Rahm Emanuel and his political operatives because it wasn't politically expedient for him to do something about it then and there. That's it. The cops are controlled by the mayor and the politicians.
HANNITY: I agree with that, Kevin. He didn't release it because there was an election coming up! This happened before the election.
JACKSON: That's my point.
HANNITY: Yes. All right...
JACKSON: That's exactly my point...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: The point is nobody on this panel, Kevin, can name one of the 4,224 people shot. Nobody came out to protest when those people were shot or the 818 people died. And that tells me, OK, I think there's genuine, real, sincere outrage over this, but I also think that there's politics at play because this fits a narrative of some people.
DIETL: You know, we've done shows...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!
DIETL: We've done shows on this night after night about the murders in Chicago. The environment is outrageous there. Again, we have to separate. But the violence going on in Chicago -- where is the outrage of all these people marching up and down when these gang members are gunning down these young kids on the street? I agree. We're going to investigate this cop. This cop will be convicted, and he'll go to jail. But let's do the reality here.
GUSTER: What you're doing is classic deflection. You and Sean are doing classic deflection...
DIETL: No, we're...
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: ... don't want to talk about this issue...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: We're pointing out a -- no, Eric. Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Wait a minute. No. Wait. Stop for a second!
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: These young kids are dying every day! You don't know their names! And because a cop's involved, now you're outraged!
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: People have protested that.
HANNITY: No, not in Chicago!
DIETL: Not in Chicago!
HANNITY: Nobody's paying attention to it!
GUSTER: I disagree with that.
HANNITY: Let me give you some...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Let me give you some numbers because I looked it up. Washington Post reported after an investigation, that, quote, "only a small number of the shootings, roughly 5 percent, occurred under the kind of circumstances that raise doubt and draw public outcry." In other words, the vast majority of individuals shot and killed by police officers were armed with guns and killed...
JACKSON: They deserved it.
HANNITY: ... after attacking police officers or civilians. So in other words, what The Washington Post, after their investigation, is pointing out, this is the anomaly! This is the exception! This is not all...
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: Exactly. And then if we go to Ferguson -- was a good shooting. What happened in Staten Island, my feelings were, the guy had (INAUDIBLE) so you can't lump up...
GUSTER: And then you have Walter Scott, who was shot in the back...
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: I agree with you on South Carolina.
GUSTER: But that is the problem when we're talking about these issues...
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: Chicago has a history...
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: You're always overtalking. Chicago has a history of police brutality against people. They have a history, a long-standing history against...
HANNITY: Can I say just something?
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: That's the problem.
HANNITY: Excuse me. In this incident...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric, Eric...
HANNITY: Hang on a second. In this incident, you heard Bo and I say we don't like what we see in this video. In the South Carolina case, Bo and I said we didn't like what we saw in that video. But in the Michael Brown case, so many people are protesting, "Hands up, don't shoot," and that never happened! In that case, you had black eyewitnesses that said they saw Michael Brown fight for Darren Wilson's gun. We had video of him robbing a store...
DIETL: Now what's happening...
HANNITY: ... eyewitness testimony that he charged the cop!
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: You're trying to talk about something totally different...
HANNITY: All right, let me go to Mike Tobin.
GUSTER: ... than his murder.
HANNITY: Mike Tobin is with those marching in Chicago now as we speak -- Mike.
TOBIN: And what's really changed is that they left district one police headquarters on State Street, and they're just marching up and down State Street now. They went south for a while, they're going north now.
Let me bring in Brendan Glover (ph). Now, what are you trying to get done here tonight?
BRENDAN GLOVER, PROTESTER: I just want the city to know that we're tired of this racial discrimination that the police have towards our communities. Sixteen shots is very excessive.
HANNITY: Now, you saw the charge, first degree murder (INAUDIBLE) life in prison?
GLOVER: Yes.
TOBIN: Is that enough?
GLOVER: I feel like it's enough. I feel like -- I feel like the indictment was rushed because this tape was about to come out, and they had to do something about it. They had to appease the community. And this indictment was something to pacify us in hopes that we wouldn't come out here and protest and express our discontent with the way the police operate in our city.
TOBIN: And you think without the tape, there would never be any charges?.
GLOVER: If that tape hadn't come out, they wouldn't have charged him. He would still be sitting at that desk job that he had now. He was still working through this whole investigation.
TOBIN: Now, let me ask you this. Earlier this month, 9-year-old Tyshon Lee (ph) was shot point blank. The autopsy showed he had powder burns on his head. A 9-year-old was lured into an alley and assassinated. Why no demonstrations then?
GLOVER: That's a tricky question because of the situation. First of all, no one has all the facts. There has been talk of people not cooperating with the police.
TOBIN: Not cooperating with the police because they've got the code of silence, and they don't cooperate with the police.
GLOVER: I mean, that's something totally different. That has nothing to do with why we're here now. There was no protest because we don't have full facts about what was going on. But we have facts about this situation. We have video. The guy was shot in the back.
TOBIN: And you saw the video.
GLOVER: I've seen the video (INAUDIBLE)
TOBIN: What's your reaction?
GLOVER: It's disgusting, heinous.
HANNITY: Hey, Mike, I have a question for your guest. Can I ask?
TOBIN: Yes, go ahead, Sean.
HANNITY: Yes. I want to ask...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... 818 murders in Chicago from 2014 through November 2015. We've had 4,224 people shot, shooting incidents in Chicago in that timeframe. Ask him if he can name one person who was shot or one person who was killed.
TOBIN: Well, someone in New York, Sean Hannity, is asking, of all the people who have been gunned down in the streets of Chicago, gang violence, black-on-black violence, other than Tyshon Lee, can you name anyone?
GLOVER: I go by basically what I see on the news. The most disturbing thing I seen this summer was the Tyshon Lee situation. That was -- for that to be a child and somebody do that was very disturbing. This situation strikes home to me with Laquan because that could have been me, my little brother, one of my friends.
You know, and the fact that we don't feel safe with the police around -- they're here to serve and protect. And the fact that I don't feel safe around police, it's disturbing.
TOBIN: Essentially, the question he's getting to is why is there not the outrage when there's black-on-black violence?
GLOVER: Because crime is going to happen. Wherever you go, crime happens. And the people that are here to serve and protect are a part of that problem. So it becomes a problem when you can't even call 911 and feel like they're (ph) safe to protect you from people that are committing crimes. That's the point I'm try to make.
TOBIN: All right. Thank you. And I thank you for making the point.
And that's one of the distinctions we've heard from people like Mr. Glover here is there's a difference when you have someone who's paid by your taxes to protect and serve, and that person is out there, you know, charged now for doing something quite heinous, Sean.
HANNITY: That's a good distinction. I'll say that. But the 9-year- old case of Tyshon Lee is a great example that you bring up. Mike Tobin, we'll be getting back to you throughout the hour.
Kevin, I know you wanted to weigh in. I had to cut you off. I think that illustrates a point, though. The violence in Chicago has been out of control for years now, years! Kids are dying. Old people are dying. Young people are dying. We barely hear a word from anybody. If it's a cop involved...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sean, that's...
HANNITY: If it's a cop involved -- look, I don't like what I see on this tape. I think this guy is going to prison for a long time. But he deserves a trial. He deserves the presumption of innocence. I want to hear what his side is. I think we can't rush to judgment, but the tape looks horrible. So the question is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree.
HANNITY: ... why don't people protest the 818, the 4,224?
JACKSON: Well, the young man said something profound, which if it's a brother killing another brother, he much more forgives that than he does a person who is paid to serve and protect.
HANNITY: There's still a dead person!
JACKSON: Family should protect you better, number one. And number two, you have a mayor who said with his own lips that when it comes to violence in the black community among gangs, take it to the alley. Take it to the alley. He does not care about that type of crime. And the only thing that's good that's coming out of this, in my opinion, is the fact that it's shining a light on Rahm Emanuel.
HANNITY: Yes. You know, Bo, you had cited on this program numerous times this 9-year-old, Tyshon Lee. I mean, gun -- go ahead.
DIETL: Yes, Sean, I think it's very important. And Eric, let me talk one second, please. What I'm afraid of is what this is painting now on every cop. Every time they try to take action now, people have jumped out with cellphones. They can't take proper action because this is going to be the new model -- 16 shots -- 16 shots, the same as the "Hands up." The cops are going to be ineffective because they're not going to get involved! I am afraid that we're going to handcuff the cops. This is a terrible incident...
GUSTER: People need cellphones, Bo. Look at the history of how police brutality has grown and has been exposed based upon cellphone footage.
JACKSON: It's growing in proportion to crime.
GUSTER: Look at Walter Scott. Without a cellphone in the Walter Scott murder, then that officer...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I like the idea of bodycams on cops.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: But I want to go back -- the vast majority, The Washington Post, of individuals shot and killed by officers were armed with guns, killed after attacking officers or other civilians or making direct threats. Wait a minute. What we're -- what that statistic shows is this is the anomaly! This is not the majority of cops! Most cops...
JACKSON: That's exactly right, Sean.
HANNITY: ... cops are good people that want to risk their lives, protect and to serve!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... who are murdering people just like what happened to Laquan McDonald and what happened to Walter Scott.
HANNITY: All right...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just like you mentioned -- you said bodycams. I don't always trust bodycams, either. We do need them, but remember, these Chicago police officers have erased -- have erased tapes from this murder. So we can't always trust them, either.
HANNITY: Listen, I'm not sure I even believe that they said they had some type of technical malfunction as it relates to the audio.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I'm not sure I buy that.
DIETL: Sean, and I tell you what, being an ex-detective, I got a real problem waiting a year for this thing to be prosecuted.
HANNITY: Hey, Bo, you and I talk about firearms all the time. You and I -- you don't shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. And that kid was stopped.
DIETL: And the kid, when he was on the ground, that second barrage, the kid was on the ground and he was assassinated on the ground.
HANNITY: All right, we got to take a break. Coming up, we'll have more on the breaking news out of Chicago. We'll go back to Mike Tobin live on the ground. And our interview with Donald Trump will be airing tomorrow night right here on "Hannity" straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And this is a Fox News alert. Protests are erupting in Chicago after the release of a police dash cam video showing an officer shooting a 17 year old teen 16 times during a 2014 incident. As you can see the crowds are now growing.
One thing -- we'll split screens if we can here for a minute. I want to show from the office of the medical examiner, it actually shows the entrance, the exit and recovery of where the bullets are here. Now, Bo, I was a marksman at 11. I'm a marksman now, a pistol marksman. You are a pistol marksman. You and I have shot together. Bo, I'm worried and concerned. Look how horrible the shooting is here. You see the number one in the head, number three and the four were probably the wounds that killed this young man. And who fires 16 shots when somebody is on ground?
BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Again, I can't sit up here and in my right mind put any kind of support to what I saw. And I saw the autopsy photos. And I saw the raw footage, which is pretty graphic, and I saw him being shot when he was totally with nothing in his hand.
HANNITY: OK, but let's go through the procedure, how police officers are trained. You're not trained to kill. You're trained to stop.
DIETL: Right.
HANNITY: You aim for upper body mass, which is the biggest part.
DIETL: I think that the officer shot him that one time and he went down. And that would have been the sufficient amount of him being. He has nothing left to go after him. That should have been sufficient. I don't think we'd be here tonight.
HANNITY: Even though he has a knife, let's say for a second, in the cop's mind -- Eric relax -- I'm just a hypothetical to learn police procedure. Let's say he thought it was a gun, not a knife. I don't think that's possible, but let's say he thought that. The one shot would maybe then would be justified or no?
DIETL: The one shot would have been OK. In his mind he thought he saw a gun. The one shot goes. He goes down. If you notice the cop that walks up to his body after the shooting is over and he kicks the knife away, that's something that's on the raw footage where he kicks the knife away.
HANNITY: I don't know what standard weapon they use in the Chicago police department. I carry a Glock 40. I have a Smith 9. Some things that people may not know, those rounds fire fast, but you would be able to stop after one or two.
DIETL: There was a pause from first time he got shot a couple of seconds later. Then when he's on the ground later you can see the bullets hitting the body and the smoke.
HANNITY: I go back to, Eric, I don't blame these people for protesting. I don't blame these people for being angry.
DIETL: They should be angry at that mayor and the police department.
HANNITY: I agree with you, the politics.
DIETL: And the police department should be taken to task for not prosecuting it for 12 months. Don't they have a special state prosecutor in there?
HANNITY: But here's the other thing, but I do -- the only thing I'm going to say, Eric, because we're in agreement tonight. This doesn't look good. This is horrible. As a gun owner, a responsible gun owner, this is not the way to handle a weapon.
But what bothers me is all of these murders that we have talked about for so long on this program, that not one person knows the names of the 818 victims or the 4,224 that were involved in shooting incidents. And that's troublesome. That tells me this is selective moral outrage.
ERIC GUSTER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: What bothers me about this case is it took a Freedom of Information Act --
HANNITY: Agree with you.
DIETL: We agree.
GUSTER: -- filing to actually get this video.
HANNITY: Agree with you.
GUSTER: And then they actually prosecuted. This wasn't out of choice. This was out of force.
HANNITY: By the way, and they lay charges on him today just before they release the video.
GUSTER: They had no choice. They already knew he should have been charged.
HANNITY: Because, wait a minute. Last week the cop said this video is got to be released by Wednesday.
DIETL: Sean, there's one thing you're missing. The 4,000 shootings with the 800 murdered, the 4,000, take that 4,000, multiply four to five, so that's over 25,000 shootings.
HANNITY: There's some politics here. Let me bring Daryl Parks in. Daryl, that tells me that the mayor and the city, the fact that they waited a year, over a year now, and then decided to indict only after a judge insisted on the release of the dash cam video because they all knew that it was damning. They all knew that we'd have this reaction.
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY: Sean, let me chime in here because I think some of us who work on the forefront of this issue of violence in America, especially in the African-American community.
HANNITY: But you were wrong in the Michael Brown case. You were way off target on that.
PARKS: We disagree. But let's talk about Chicago right now. Without question, Sean, what you have going on in Chicago, many people are very concerned about what's going on. Yes, we can't say the specific names, but many people throughout this country are very concerned about Chicago. Chicago is the worst place right now for black on black violence. But people are focused on it and addressing it.
Now, have we come up with a solution yet? No. But it's a place that has to be addressed. And I disagree. I talked to many civil rights leaders who are very concerned about Chicago and who are talking about it and looking for solutions. So it's something that is --
DIETL: I guarantee you tomorrow President Obama will comment on this.
HANNITY: The president's a three-time loser. He was wrong on Trayvon Martin.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: He was wrong on the Cambridge cops. He was wrong on Michael Brown. This is the one case he could have been right now.
Let me bring Kevin back in here. Kevin, I keep going back to this issue. I think this is a justified -- I like the fact that it's peaceful. I didn't like this guy staring down the cop earlier tonight, but for the most part this looks fairly peaceful. I hope it doesn't turn into some of the earlier situations we covered. But it looks peaceful, and people seem to be justified here. But they were wrong. You were in Ferguson. You know that people were saying things that weren't true and making up stories. And then the evidence came in and a whole different story emerged.
KEVIN JACKSON, THE BLACK SPHERE: Exactly. Ferguson, no matter what everybody says, that one they got completely wrong. But in this particular case, to Eric's point and to Daryl, this is right. And it appears to be right based on the video.
But you keep asking the question, Sean, about why are we not talking about these other murders. It's a very simple answer. There's no money in those murders. There's money in what's happening in setting this narrative that got Ferguson burned down, Baltimore burned down, and these big fat settlements to people for the cops shooting people whether it's wrong or not.
HANNITY: Kevin, we'll go back on the ground. Our very own Mike Tobin is standing by. He's right in the middle of all this. Mike, what's the latest?
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We're just watching. They took off walking again. We're now on Michigan Avenue heading north at about 14th street. So we're just kind of getting into more of the business district here. And still talking about -- now they're talking about shutting things down. They've been using that new demonstration about 16, referencing the 16 shots that were fired. Let me see if I can find somebody to talk to.
HANNITY: Mike, the crowd looks like it's gotten a lot bigger.
TOBIN: Can I ask you a couple of questions?
The crowd does seem like it's growing throughout the evening. I would not call it a rowdy crowd at this point other than the fact that they're demonstrating. The only thing they do that might even be considered outside of the rules is blocking traffic while they're walking in the middle of the street, Sean. So far people aren't too agreeable in this section to talk. Let me see if I can find somebody to talk to. Go ahead. You got a question?
HANNITY: Well, the only question I have, one of the things we're discussing here, Mike, is, and you pointed it out with the assassination of nine-year-old TyShawn Lee and what was basically an assassination of a nine-year-old. But there's been many young kids who have died in the violence that has been growing and growing and growing. We have weekends where 40 people are shot, 50 people are shot, and people aren't protesting. And one of the things, if every life matters, we keep talking about this during the political season, do black lives matter? All lives matter. We all agree here all lives matter, right, Eric?
GUSTER: All lives matter.
HANNITY: All lives matter. That's right. All lives matter. And Daryl, you agree with that. Kevin, you agree with that, right?
JACKSON: Absolutely.
PARKS: I think tonight, though, we got to focus on black lives because we have a young black man that's dead. All lives do matter, but tonight a black man is dead.
HANNITY: But Daryl, you were wrong in Michael Brown's case. We have a video of him robbing a store. We had eyewitnesses, black eyewitnesses that testified that he tried to fight a cop for his gun, that he charged at a cop. You were wrong in that case. You were dead wrong in that case.
PARKS: Let me say this. I have examined the evidence in that case and I think I'm right in this case and I think time will show that I was right.
HANNITY: It's not a matter of --
JACKSON: Sean, here's an interesting question. Sean, here's an interesting question. Do you think we'd be sitting here if the person who was shot were white? And I think the answer would be no. It would be a bad cop shooting, but they happen, and unfortunately this one happened. I don't care about the color. This is a bad thing. But there's money on the other side of this issue, and that's the reason why nobody can name the kids that are being killed.
HANNITY: Wait a minute. If it was a white person shot, would the people be protesting?
GUSTER: I'm not sure.
DIETL: I think if the video came out, there wouldn't be anybody -- nobody would be protesting, but certainly if that video came out, the cops would be in trouble.
HANNITY: Daryl Parks?
PARKS: I think any time you have a prosecutor that takes over a year to bring a case, a judge that makes them release, they should be protest from someone. Now whether people care or not, people who are watching these issues should care about it. And I think that the American public --
HANNITY: We got the break.
PARKS: -- should be concerned when you see gross injustices like this one.
HANNITY: All right, when we get back our own Mike Tobin is in the midst of that protest. He'll be talking to some of the protesters. More of our live coverage of these growing protests in Chicago as HANNITY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And this is a Fox News alert. Protests are growing tonight in Chicago on the ground live as our own Mike Tobin. Mike, what's the very latest there?
TOBIN: Well, right now what they're doing is they're counting through the shots.
CROWD: Sixteen shots! Sixteen shots! Sixteen shots! Sixteen shots!
TOBIN: They're counting up to 16 shots there. Of course, representative of what happened to that young man, the 17-year-old, Mr. McDonald, at the hands of the police officer that is now on videotape that we've seen. And let me bring in someone here. Ace, can you tell me what you're trying to get done tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here to create something bigger than what you see right now. What you see right now are people who are emotional, who see what is going on and are tired of it. But we're here to create something bigger than people that are tired of it. We're here to create something, and we're going to create people that are going to do something about that. Action, it's not just about anger any more.
HANNITY: Mike, I see Father Pfleger.
TOBIN: Yes. Hi, Father Pfleger. What do you think of what you have seen so far tonight?
FATHER MICHAEL PFLEGER: I think you see young people that are angry, that are peaceful, and are standing up and saying we don't want this here. We're tired of people being shot and killed by people paid to protect.
HANNITY: Hey, Mike, I have a question.
TOBIN: Wait, Sean Hannity has a question for you. Go ahead, Sean.
HANNITY: I want to ask Father Pfleger, he's part of an incendiary friendship with the Reverend Wright who says America's chickens came home to roost after 9/11. And he said G-D America. Does he agree with Reverend Wright on that?
TOBIN: Sean wants to know if you agree with Reverend Wright in terms of him saying the chickens have come home to roost in relation to terrorism and referenced things like when he said G-D America. Do you agree with Reverend Wright?
PFLEGER: I stand behind Reverend Wright 100 percent. We believe the same exact thing.
HANNITY: That's pathetic.
TOBIN: And all his comments related to radical Islamism?
PFLEGER: I believe that the chickens have come home to roost in America. We've had policies that have been corrupt, policies that have been violent. We're been dropping missiles and bombs and drones for years. And now we're seeing the terror that we've created.
HANNITY: Mike, I have another question for him.
PFLEGER: Do I agree with violence anywhere? No. Whether it's across the seas, in Palestine and what's being done with Palestine in Israel, and I don't agree with what's being done in Chicago.
HANNITY: Hey, Mike, ask him, there were 818 murders in Chicago from 2014 through November, 2015, 4,224 shooting incidents. Where was Father Pfleger then?
TOBIN: With all of the shootings, Father Pfleger, that we have seen and all the black on black violence that we see on the south and west side, why don't people take to the street? Why does the outrage not go to the street then?
PFLEGER: I took to the streets. When TyShawn was killed. I took to the streets when Dequante (ph) was killed. And I'm taking to the streets when Laquan (ph) was shot.
TOBIN: And we've talked about the death of TyShawn Lee and the fact that the code of silence never ended then and people aren't cooperating with the police. Why is this the incident that broke the camel's back and not the murder of a nine-year-old?
PFLEGER: I think both did it. But this is a code of silence too. This is a code of silence by a state's attorney and the federal government for the last 13 months, a cover-up and a code of silence. It's the same thing.
HANNITY: Does he blame Rahm Emanuel?
TOBIN: You're referencing that it took too long to bring the prosecution?
PFLEGER: Absolutely. The federal government should be ashamed of themselves.
HANNITY: Does he blame Rahm Emanuel?
TOBIN: Do you blame the mayor?
PFLEGER: This case was under the state's attorney's case. The mayor can't put charges on something. I blame the state's attorney. And as far as I'm concerned she let this case go for 13 months.
TOBIN: Are you politicizing with the fact that she says she expedited the charges to get out ahead of the release of the video.
PFLEGER: If she expedited the charges to do it today, why didn't she do it 13 months ago?
TOBIN: Sean, you have another question?
HANNITY: No. Tell Father Pfleger to come on my show. TOBIN: Father Pfleger says he has enough. He says come on his show sometime. Let me give you a look around right now. This is Michigan and Roosevelt Avenue. They have blocked off the street and formed a large circle. And that's the situation now. They've got the traffic blocked off. They've got a lighted sign that they made with the name Laquan, of course, referencing Laquan McDonald. And that's kind of the scope of the protest here. Blocking traffic, Sean.
HANNITY: Has the size of the crowd gone down? It looks like it was smaller than it was earlier, Mike.
Laquan McDonald I wouldn't say that it's smaller than it was earlier. It's just that they're so spread out in a big intersection right now. A couple hundred people out here. I'd say the crowd has grown throughout the evening. It hasn't grown by leaps and by bounds, Sean.
HANNITY: All right, thanks so much, Mike Tobin on the ground in Chicago for us.
It is interesting as a side note, Father Pfleger, one of the most controversial figures in Obama's circle when he was in Chicago. And I asked -- of course, he was a big supporter of Reverend Wright. And Reverend Wright said after 9/11, that Sunday, preaching America's chickens have come home to roost and G-D America, not God bless America. And he said I support everything Reverend Wright says. I know you don't support that Eric Guster.
GUSTER: He did stand behind his friend Reverend Wright.
HANNITY: Stood behind those specific statements.
GUSTER: He did. He did. But we're here about this young man who got shot. We're here to talk about why it took over 13 months for this prosecution to actually develop. We're talking about why there is this cover up --
HANNITY: I've agreed you with all night. But I have another point here. The point is that --
GUSTER: This impacts so many people nationwide, Sean.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I agree with you.
DIETL: Why did he let Rahm Emanuel off the hook? He's the mayor of that damn city. He's the CEO of that city, and he is supposed to be in charge of that city. How dare he let him off the hook? He's the top executive. He should go down before anybody.
HANNITY: Let me go to Daryl and bring Daryl back in here. I think Father Phleger passing the buck and they want to blame this person and not that person. That kind of reinforces my view, Daryl, that there's politics being played here and what I would argue is selective moral outrage.
PARKS: I wouldn't call it selective moral outrage, Sean. I think we all should be concerned that so many thousands of young people are being killed in the city of Chicago.
HANNITY: Thank you.
PARKS: And I think they're searching for the answer, but they don't have the answer yet. It's an ongoing problem.
HANNITY: Kevin, I think there is a selective moral outrage. And you've had the courage to speak out about this. You've been on this program talking about black on black violence the people, those protestors when we questioned them tonight couldn't even name one of 4,224 shooting incidents, 818 dead, they can't name any one of them.
JACKSON: Well, Sean, let me ask you this. Think about it. The picture they posted of Laquan was in his graduation outfit. The guy who was shot had PCP in his system. Now, everybody wants to overlook that, but I'd ask a very simple question. If this young man was in his right mind would he have surrendered to the cops? Could he have prevented himself from being shot? I'm not exonerating this cop at all.
GUSTER: That's what you're trying to do, Kevin.
JACKSON: If I was trying to do that, I would say it. The point I'm making is if we are carrying ourselves differently, we would have different encounters with the police. I'm not exonerating this guy in any way, shape, or form. I think the justice system will figure out what happened. But don't present the guy as a choir boy when if he had been in his right mind he could have put his hands up, got down on the ground. I don't know what happened that transpired in this shooting, but we always overlook these issues because black people want to be outraged, and people like Rahm Emmanuel who tell gang members to go to the alley to fight it out and then hide things from the general public --
HANNITY: Let's get Daryl Parks in for the last word. Daryl, last word from you tonight.
Well, without question, I'm glad that these kids are showing they're concerned and voicing that Chicago has to change and that they demand more from the Chicago police department and from the leadership within the city of Chicago. So I'm glad to see protestors are taking a stand.
HANNITY: I'm glad you're right on this one so far, Daryl. You've been wrong on a couple of them. You and I have disagreed on Trayvon and Michael Brown.
DIETL: One thing I have to complement these demonstrators. It looks fairly peaceful to me. And congratulations to those demonstrators. This is how we're supposed to --
HANNITY: The one incident I don't like. Let's re-rack the -- I don't like that.
DIETL: Yes, but there's no violence. They're not burning anything. I respect --
HANNITY: The guy stood there five minutes there staring the cop down.
GUSTER: It's his First Amendment right.
HANNITY: It's his First Amendment right, but you don't treat a cop like that and get in his grill like that.
GUSTER: This show has been deflecting. You have Kevin over here victim-blaming. We have to concentrate on what --
HANNITY: What part of us agreeing with you can't you handle? You can't handle that we said --
GUSTER: I can.
(CROSSTALK)
GUSTER: -- that you actually agree with me.
DIETL: Come on.
GUSTER: What you're doing is you're trying to deflect --
(CROSSTALK)
DIETL: Eric, calm down. We're agreeing about the shooting. But what I'm saying is that I like what I see with the demonstration. They're not burning. They're not looting. This is a demonstration. This should be an example. This is how you demonstrate.
JACKSON: Even when we agree with Eric he doesn't like it. Even when we agree with Eric he has a problem.
HANNITY: I guess he just wants us to loop around, yes, Eric, we agree. Yes, Eric we agree. Yes.
JACKSON: We agree, Eric.
HANNITY: One time in your life, you're right. There you go.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: No, but the sad thing is these are kids, these are people, these are lives. They matter. That is the sad thing about this.
All right, we've got to go. Thank you all for being with us. Tomorrow night, by the way, I apologize. Our interview with Donald Trump will air tomorrow. Thank you for being with us. We'll have the latest from Chicago here on the Fox News Channel.
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