Gov. John Kasich: We can't keep waiting to act on ISIS
Exclusive: Presidential candidate outlines how he would react to Paris attacks on 'Sunday Morning Futures'
This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," November 15, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX ANCHOR: Good morning.
People in France and across the world this morning coming to grips with the catastrophic events in Paris, as the investigation widens.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Maria Bartiromo. Welcome to "Sunday Morning Futures."
Seven people now in custody in Belgium, possibly linked to Friday night's attacks. We are covering all of the latest developments with a live report coming to you from Paris.
Plus, President Obama addressing the attacks of the G20 meeting in Turkey. Is his message strong enough and how will the United States respond now? Former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Chris Hill, joins us live.
Then, presidential candidates with lots of different ideas on how to take down ISIS. Ohio Governor John Kasich tells us what he would do, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures" right now.
A second day of mourning and sadness in the city of lights. Hundreds of people today still holding vigil, laying out flowers outside Paris' Bataclan Concert Hall, the site of Friday's deadliest attacks, where more than 120 people have died, many slaughtered, execution style.
Meanwhile, a wave of arrests this morning in neighboring Belgium, aiming to scoop up potential co-conspirators in this attack. Congressman Mac Thornberry is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. He joins us right now.
Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for your time this morning.
REP. MAC THORNBERRY, R-TEXAS, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES CMTE CHAIRMAN: Thanks for having me.
BARTIROMO: First off, characterize where we are in terms of our ability to get our arms around this. I - you know, I was just thinking about the fact that assault weapons were used here in Paris. Assault weapons cannot even be purchased in France. How is it possible that assault weapons got to France and investigators missed it?
THORNBERRY: Well, the European Union is a big entity. Of course, weapons can come in at the most vulnerable point and then transfer across those borders. You know, in the bigger sense, Maria, the - one of our counterterrorism experts, the guy that led the CIA effort into Afghanistan after 9/11, said that for the United States, our intelligence ability to find these plots is weaker than it has been at any time since 9/11, mainly because we have tied our own hands. So if you look at the big picture, we have really done some things that make it harder for us and our allies to discover these plots before they take place.
BARTIROMO: Well, obviously, ISIS is hardly contained and has only gotten stronger. How will you characterize where we are right now in this fight to defeat ISIS?
THORNBERRY: Yes, I think you're right, they are not the JV. They're the big leagues. They are not contained. They're growing. You know, a town in Syria may come and go, but their ideology is spreading. They have been encouraging folks to carry out these sorts of attacks for several months.
And so we have seen one of them successfully carried out. But they have more people adhering to their ideology and I'm afraid we don't have our arms around the problem either from an intelligence perspective or from a military perspective.
BARTIROMO: And, congressman, what needs to be done?
THORNBERRY: Well, number one, we need to, as best we can, reverse the intelligence losses, the restrictions we have placed on ourselves, gathering information about terrorists and their plots. You know, this goes back to Snowden and all of those over-hyped concerns about civil liberties.
Secondly, there has to be a strategy for pushing back on ISIS on the ground. The problem is, we've gone so long and so many allies or potential allies don't really trust us that we're going to be serious about it. It's harder and harder to assemble that group of nations who will be effective in pushing back against ISIS on the ground.
BARTIROMO: Yes, this is a very important point. And I want to get back to it. Congressman Thornberry, stay with us.
We are just learning, President Obama and Putin met on the sidelines for 30 minutes at the G20 Summit. Meanwhile, we are getting new details about the investigation into attacks as some relatives of one of Friday's attackers are now detained for questioning. Greg Palkot is live in Paris right now.
He's got the details.
Good morning, Greg.
GREG PALKOT, FOX CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Maria.
A lot of activity on various fronts. We are standing right in front of the Bataclan Music Hall in Paris where 89 young concert goers were mowed down by attackers as they shouted out, "Allah Akbar," or "God is great." And we are watching relatives, friends, the public bring flowers, pay their respects to the victims of this horrific terror as France does indeed try to come to grips with this.
One of the identified suicide bombers was found here - or I should say, Maria, his finger was found here. His body was blown up. The fingerprint identified him as a French national. In the past, we've learned of two other French nationals living in Brussels also connected to the attacker - attack identified. Three homegrown terrorists so far among the attackers.
At National Stadium, another interesting wrinkle in the past 24 hours. A Syrian passport found. Greek officials just recently have said that that passport was used by a migrant coming in to Greece from Turkey, perhaps smuggling in terror. And a car overnight was found just outside of Paris filled with Kalashnikov automatic rifles, apparently used in the attacks.
So far, Maria, seven attackers are known, are dead, but police say there could be more out there, as well as accomplices, and they are searching. Again, the total 109 of 129 victims have been identified, 352 were injured,99 are in serious condition. There are, we are told, some Americans among the injured and we know of one American sadly who was killed, Nohemi Gonzalez, a 23-year-old California college student here for what was a wonderful semester abroad.
Finally, Maria, throughout Paris today, thousands of soldiers and police are out in force as the closures here of public places continues. We - including the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, parks, even the French beloved Sunday markets. I've lived here 10 years, my long-time producer Sicily Forte (ph), we have never seen anything like this.
A final note, French President Hollande will be meeting in an extraordinary joint session of his parliament tomorrow. He's already said this is ISIS. He's already said this is an act of war. The French, the world is waiting for the next step.
Back to you.
BARTIROMO: All right, Greg, thank you very much. Live reporting there. Greg Palkot.
More now with Congressman Mac Thornberry, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
And, Mr. Chairman, let me ask you about what this means for the refugee situation. The U.S. is expected to take in tens of thousands of refugees. We now know that one of the perpetrators in the Paris attack was, in fact, a refugee, posing - he was an ISIS fighter posing as a refugee. What do you think this means in terms of the U.S.' plan to take in refugees?
THORNBERRY: Well, it means all of us need to be very careful about screening anyone who comes into our country. And, frankly, we don't have very good screening mechanisms to do that. So we really need to up our game on that front.
It's interesting that this was a mixture of people who were there in the country and refugees. I think - and, remember, the people who were there in the country, with European passports, can come to the United States without a visa. So the idea that this is something that could just be contained to Europe or that if you just don't let refugee - any refugees in, and you stop this, is not true. It's - it - they are looking for ways to get around our security measures.
BARTIROMO: Right. But when you say up our game, what does that mean exactly? I mean the Syrian government has been, you know, decimated, I mean collapsed. How will we ever get the information on who these refugees are if we can't even confirm it or vet them properly with - with their - with their home, the - from the Syrian government?
THORNBERRY: Well, the key is to share information with our allies. And you're exactly right. There - we may never get the information we're looking for because there is no real government in Syria. But it really goes back to what we were talking about a few minutes ago. We have tied our own hands as far as collecting information about who the bad guys are, what they're planning and who they associate with. And the - the sharing of information between the U.S. and key European allies has also been restricted from what it was several years ago and that has a cumulative effect of reducing our information about these people and what they're planning. So that's part of what we need to up our game. It's not just screening individuals, it's increasing our intelligence collection ability across the board.
BARTIROMO: And we know that some 2,000 individuals traveled from France to Syria and back and forth. We didn't have the information and tracking of those people. France did not. And we know that more than 100 have done the same from - from the U.S. So tracking those people back and forth, those people going to help ISIS, we need to be tracking them. What - what's your best guess in terms of the information that you have right now? I mean, ISIS is now at the gates of major cities, OK? They're in Paris. What do you think ISIS' next step is?
THORNBERRY: Oh, I think they will continue to try to carry out attacks in Western Europe and possibly the United States. We have seen that they are trying to push their influence in other parts of the world, certainly across North Africa, even into Southeast Asia. When I was in Afghanistan a few weeks ago, they were concerned about the rise of ISIS in Afghanistan as a competitor to al Qaeda.
So they are growing in ideology. They are growing in attractiveness and they are trying to make the most of it and again, to emphasize, they have been asking for months for their followers to carry out these sorts of attacks wherever they live.
So it's important to pay attention to the refugees, but it's also the guy on the computer in his basement that could go carry out these sort of attacks at a mall, a hotel or something here in the United States that is part of the threat that these guys pose to us.
BARTIROMO: Yeah, very, very important insights from your, congressman.
Thanks very much.
We will be coming to you live on the Fox Business Network tomorrow morning. We hope you'll join us on Mornings with Maria. Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.
Representative Mack Thornberry there.
Ohio governor and presidential candidate John Kasich, meanwhile, sending a strong message to supporters telling them how he would handle ISIS. He joins us me next. Hope you'll follow us on Twitter @MariaBartiromo @SundayFutures. Let us know what you would like to hear from John Kasich as well as Ambassador Hill coming up.
We're looking ahead this morning on Sunday Morning Futures.
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BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
One presidential candidate has been very outspoken since the attacks in Paris, Ohio governor John Kasich sending out a strong message to supporters in New Hampshire: destroy ISIS.
The governor saying we cannot afford to wait for the outcome of the 2016 presidential election to be able to act.
Joining us tonight right now is Ohio governor and Republican Presidential candidate John Kasich.
Governor, good to see you. Thanks very much for joining us.
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Maria.
BARTIROMO: You have called on the U.S. to go toward article five with NATO. Explain exactly what you are proposing, governor.
KASICH: Well, you know what, after 9/11 France wanted to join us on article five, which basically says an attack on one member of NATO is an attack that affects all of us. And in this case, I think article five ought to be implemented, which means that all NATO members would assist France as they move to protect themselves and to root out the terrorists.
I think it's a very important and very strong message. And furthermore, Maria, I think the president ought to go to Europe and I think he ought to convene a meeting, not only to drive forward on article five, but also we need better coordinated intelligence worldwide and I think we better be doing joint planning in terms of the need for military action to destroy ISIS and not only just involve NATO, but of course we would also to want to work with some of our allies in the Middle East, whether it's the Jordanians and the Saudis, but you know we just can't keep waiting.
I've been arguing about the need to do boots on the ground now as part of a coalition, an international coalition, for a long time, and of course, the no fly zones are important in Syria, because that will provide some sanctuary for people in Syria who are -- whose lives have been virtually destroyed by war.
There are so many things we need to do, but joint intelligence, working with the French, working with NATO -- and I must also say, Maria, we have to be very careful that we dedicate the resources we need right here at home and things like a joint terrorism task forces that we have across the country.
The ability to develop human intelligence, this is really, really critical, not just overseas, but we got to have people here who know what is happening and then signal intelligence, which is the ability to be in these chat rooms and to know what is happening while still protecting the rights of Americans.
BARTIROMO: Now of course, we know that the president is in Europe right now. He's at the G20 summit in Turkey. We do not know if he will go to France after the G20 meeting, which of course ends on Monday, tomorrow.
So, in terms of plan for the United States, tell us what you would like to see in terms of boots on the ground. What should the U.S.'s response to this deadly attack in Paris be given that you say an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all.
KASICH: Well, this is something where we would rally behind the French and be able to work with them, whether it's logistics, whether it's some sort of military action where we are all united but I don't think that is going to be enough, Maria. I think it's also important, as I say, to build an international coalition.
NATO is fine and NATO is good and NATO is critical here and frankly, it needs to be strengthened, we all need to work together more closely because we can see what happens when we're really not united, but it's also important that we include countries that are in the region.
And, you know, what first jumps out at you, of course, are the Saudis, perhaps the Jordians. I think they would join a coalition. And in the meantime -- I mean, the least that administration can do is make sure the Kurds are very well armed. They have been taking the fight to ISIS in Iraq really, really critical that the Kurds are strong and you know, people say why? It's because they have been defending their homeland for so long and why do they like the United States? Because we have been helping them to protect their own homeland and the Kurds are really critical in all this and it's complicated, as well, because there are disagreements within NATO, particularly with Turkey in regards to the Kurds but we need Turkey to understand that the Kurds are critical in terms of taking on ISIS.
There are a number of things that we can do and I really do think we need to have those no fly zones both on the Turkish border and also on the Jordan border.
BARTIROMO: What about refugees, sir? How many refugees should the United States be taking in right now?
KASICH: Well, look, we should only take refugees in if we can affirm, this is not a negative thing, you know, like when you say, well, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. It would be incumbent on people to prove who they are so that we would be certain because we can't be in a position of inviting the enemy in. And frankly, we better be careful about looking at Americans that have traveled
-- Americans themselves who have traveled back and forth.
Look, I think it's important when we do the no fly zone, we are now providing a sanctuary, Maria, that would hopefully cut -- if we would do that, we would cut down on the number of refugees leaving a war torn area. At the same time, we can provide the resources to the Jordanians and perhaps the Saudis, the humanitarian and the kind of financial resources, to stop or to stem the flow.
BARTIROMO: Yeah.
KASICH: There are so many things we need to do and, frankly, we're behind the curve and I think that's why people are frustrated worldwide.
BARTIROMO: We're going to talk about the solutions or the answers that we got last night from the Democratic candidate --
KASICH: Maria, one other thing.
BARTIROMO: Real quick, real quick, Governor --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: There's one other -- yes, the other issue is, look, we can win this battle on the battlefield with bullets but we have to win this battle with the battle of ideas. We have to show that the Western civilization stands for something that lives have meaning, that we have to live lives greater than ourselves so that people can have purpose throughout the West and representing that Western ethic. This is really critical --
(CROSSTALK)
BARTIROMO: Governor, thank you.
KASICH: -- is important.
BARTIROMO: I know it.
KASICH: Thank you, Maria.
BARTIROMO: It sure is.
Governor Kasich, thank you so much.
World leaders responding to the terrorist attacks in Paris plan to change the political climate in Syria.
How will that impact the fight against ISIS?
We'll talk with Ambassador Christopher Hill next.
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BARTIROMO: Welcome back. We have breaking news in the wake of the deadly Paris attacks.
World diplomats searching for command ground on Syria. U.S. secretary of state John Kerry establishing a loose agreement yesterday with foreign ministers of 20 other countries. The plan to overhaul Syria's political system, eliminating the role of ISIS in the country.
Meanwhile, the fight against ISIS dominating the current G20 talks between President Obama and other global leaders right next door to Syria, in Turkey. As we just get a report from the FBI this morning that the FBI is sending agents to Paris to assist in the investigation. This is according to "The New York Times" and we are just getting these details right now.
Ambassador Christopher Hill is joining me right now, he is the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, former senior director on the National Security Council staff and dean of the Joseph Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.
Sir, good to have you on the program. Thanks very much for joining us.
CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Pleasure.
BARTIROMO: Ambassador, what is your take on this?
The FBI is sending agents to assist in the Paris investigation. We're just getting this information right now; it's according to law enforcement officials and "The New York Times" is reporting it, that the agents are being deployed. They have expertise in recovering information from electronic devices, like cellphones and computers.
What's your take?
HILL: Well, first of all, this is a war on President Hollande and France, and this is a war with France; frankly, it's with all of us. I agree with Governor Kasich on the need to invoke NATO and perhaps invoke Article V, which kind of puts us all at war.
So I think it's very important that we get the FBI there and any other asset that we can bring to help the French on this. And I would encourage every other alliance member to do the same thing.
I think we need to understand that, with respect to Syria, there are two civil wars, one is with ISIS and that's one where we need a war-winning strategy. There is no talking to them; there's negotiating with them.
The other issue, of course, is the issue of all these various Sunni groups against President Assad, against the Alawites. And there we need a diplomatic approach. And I'm pleased to see that we seem to be getting that, albeit under the auspices of the Russians.
BARTIROMO: All right.
So what would you like to see happen now?
I mean, a lot of -- the presidential candidates talking about coalitions, talking about sharing information with our friends overseas.
What does that mean exactly?
HILL: Well, I would like to see a lot of that. I'd like to see a lot more forensics on what actually happened in France. It wasn't just eight people with suicide vests. There was clearly support.
How did those AKs get into France, which is a country that does ban assault weapons?
So I think we need to do a lot more forensics on that.
Secondly, I think it will be a challenge for the Europeans to balance this humanitarian urge to help these refugees at a time when it is clear and it's increasingly clear that some of these terrorists got in through this refugee flow. So that has to be -- that piece has to be worked, that is, there's a balance between humanitarian and security issues.
And then, thirdly, I think with respect to the actual battlefield, I think we need more countries in. We've seen some examples where the Saudis and others have kind of diverted their resources over down to Yemen and I think those coalition partners in the region need to be much more active against ISIS.
And we need, of course, to keep working with the Kurds. I think the Kurds are a key element of this. They have a great incentive to work this, to fight this and I think we should be supporting them.
So with respect to ISIS, we need a war-winning strategy and I think everyone needs to be part of that strategy.
With respect to the other issue, this issue that has been going on for four years between Assad and these various Sunni groups, we need a much stepped- up diplomatic process.
I like what is happening in Vienna. I think perhaps there is a little excessive attention to elections because elections in that part of the world tend to be a kind of a census on who's got loyalties to which sectarian issue.
So I think that needs to be accompanied by a description, at least a U.S. policy of what we would like to see Syria look like in the future.
Should it be one country?
Should it be a decentralized country?
I'd like to see what our policy is.
And for those who say that this is all -- this should all be done by the Syrians, that's a very nice thing to say. But I would like to be assured that they don't really believe it. In short, we need to be engaged with what we see as a possible political outcome for Syria.
BARTIROMO: Obviously, there is not a lot of goodwill or will on the part of the American people to go and send our men and women back and fight on the ground but America needs to lead.
You're saying we need coalition.
So how do you make the case to the American people that that may very well include boots on the ground?
HILL: Well, I think we need boots on the ground in the form of special operators. I don't think we need battle formations. I don't think we need to send in corps or battalions of U.S. troops.
If you look at the actual battlefield, which takes place out in this eastern desert in Syria against -- next to Iraq, you'll see these are pretty light numbers of people. I mean, when the Kurds are moving against the ISIS forces, they are estimating the ISIS forces for some less than 1,000.
So I don't think this is a matter of sending in battalions of U.S. troops. It is a matter, however, of sending in special operators who could help these various groups to work together. And that's been a -- somewhat of an elusive concept in Syria for a number of years, get them to work together against ISIS, increase the amount of intel and especially keep those air operations going.
So I think that piece has to be done, has to be better explained to the American people and has to be explained in terms of a war-winning strategy because ISIS is not 10 feet tall. We can deal with this if everyone is in it together.
BARTIROMO: Right. But the president said that he's sending 50 special operations troops.
Is that enough?
HILL: You know, I'll leave it to others who can determine the troop-to- task ratios but one sense is that maybe 50 is not enough.
BARTIROMO: OK.
HILL: And if we're going to do more, obviously, I think the president needs to explain to the American people why we're doing war. Clearly, ISIS is the factor that has driven this crisis across the region right now.
And to see the Saudis kind of stepping out of this and dealing only with Yemen is a real problem. We need to get these regional partners back in the fight.
BARTIROMO: Ambassador, thanks very much for your insights. We appreciate it. We'll see you soon, Ambassador Christopher Hill.
The attacks in Paris becoming the focus of the second Democratic presidential debate last night; were the responses by three candidates strong enough? We'll start right there with our panel.
Meanwhile, be sure to join me live for a special edition of "Mornings with Maria," tomorrow we will be live from Paris, beginning at 5:00 am Eastern time on the Fox Business Network. Join us for live coverage from Paris tomorrow morning on the Fox Business Network.
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BARTIROMO: Welcome back, we're back to introduce our panel. We've got Ed Rollins, Mary Kissel and Bob Nardelli with us this morning.
But first, the attacks in Paris taking center stage at last night's Democratic debate with the presidential hopefuls clashing over the best way to deal with the Islamic State and radical Islam.
FOX News' senior correspondent Eric Shawn with that angle.
Good morning, Eric.
ERIC SHAWN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Maria.
And good morning, everyone. Hitler asked, "Is Paris burning?"
Seventy years later, ISIS declares Paris is on fire. We're at war with radical Islamic terrorism. Pope Francis has called these attacks the Third World War. At the Democratic debate last night, what we need to do to win it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: We need to have a resolve that will bring the world together to root out the kind of radical jihad ideology that motivates organizations like ISIS, a barbaric, ruthless, violent jihadist terrorist group.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VT.: Together, leading the world, this country will rid our planet of this barbarous organization called ISIS.
SHAWN (voice-over): They agreed ISIS must be defeated but the candidates last night carefully avoided saying our enemy is radical Islamic terrorism.
MARTIN O'MALLEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND: This actually is America's fight. It cannot solely be America's fight. America is best when we work in collaboration with our allies. America is best when we are actually standing up to evil in this world and ISIS, make no mistake about it, is an evil in this world.
SHAWN (voice-over): Ms. Clinton was attacked for her 2002 vote authorizing the Iraq war. She said it was a mistake but there seems to be a new alarm about the threat that has already targeted us here at home for decades.
The first radical Islamic terrorist attack in our country occurred 25 years ago, one week ago in 1990, the assassination in a Manhattan hotel of extremist rabbi Meir Kahane by a jihadi terrorist.
More attacks followed in New York, Los Angeles and Boston. And the threat sadly remains.
And this morning there is a poignant reminder that continues, as the flowers and cards pile up on the sidewalk in front of the French consulate on Fifth Avenue here in Manhattan.
One heartfelt message simply read, "We pray for Paris. We all stand together." -- Maria.
BARTIROMO: Thank you very much, Eric.
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BARTIROMO: Thank you, Eric.
Special church services taking place at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris and around France in honor of the 129 people killed in Friday's terrorist attack. Flowers being placed outside the scenes this morning.
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BARTIROMO (voice-over): This is a live picture as the French nation comes to grips with what happened. The world wants to see how they will respond.
We bring in our panel on that note.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Ed Rollins is former principal White House advisor to President Reagan. He has been a long-time strategist to business and political leaders. He is a FOX News political analyst.
Mary Kissel is a "Wall Street Journal" editorial board member.
And Bob Nardelli is the former CEO of Chrysler and Home Depot.
Thanks very much to our panel for being here.
Ed Rollins. your observations this morning?
ED ROLLINS, POLITICAL CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: My observations are we had better get very tough. We'd better work with our allies. I think John Kasich made it very stark by saying we should take NATO provisions, the United Nations doesn't work because of the Russian veto.
But I think we basically have to go and lead. If America doesn't lead, the rest of it doesn't work.
NATO has collapsed over the last several years. We just need to use NATO as our vehicle to base, to go root these people out.
I disagree with Ambassador Hill, who sort of dismisses it as 1,000 of them there. Ask our military how many of them are there and how many does it take to go get them; 50 people is not enough on our part. And go make the case to the American public, which I think the president could do.
In this last year, I'm going to root these people out, I'm going to find them. I'm going to leave the next president with a plan and that's what he has to do. If he doesn't do that, then he will fail miserably.
BARTIROMO: Mary?
MARY KISSEL, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I concur, the barbarians are at the gate. We seen attacks now from London to Madrid to Beirut to the airliner over the Sinai. It is time for American leadership.
And one of the most remarkable points of last night's Democratic debate was when Hillary Clinton said this isn't America's fight.
Look, Democrats are dangerously divorced from reality. Hillary says that; President Obama wants to close Gitmo. He said that we have contained these people.
No, we haven't contained them.
Bernie Sanders, who's leading in some polls, says the greatest threat is climate change.
What we need is American leadership. And the majority of the American people understand and support sending troops back to the Middle East before this global disorder comes to our shores.
BARTIROMO: I thought it was actually extraordinary, the debate last night.
There was no real solution from any of the candidates and they were talking a lot but no --
(CROSSTALK)
KISSEL: -- saying essentially nothing. It was one of the most remarkable displays of unintelligible garbage rhetoric that I've ever seen in my life.
BARTIROMO: Bob Nardelli?
BOB NARDELLI, FORMER CEO, CHRYSLER: Yes, unfortunately, Maria, I think this will event will shift the entire focus on the upcoming election. It will certainly dwarf some of the other insignificant issues that have been talked about to this date.
My business experience has always taught me, the longer you wait to face an issue, the more aggressive you have to become. And that, unfortunately, that's where we are. You know, there will be a lot of "coulda, shoulda, woulda," and as you asked earlier and Ed talked about, is 50 enough? Absolutely not. But the big thing, Maria, is we shouldn't know how many are going over there. This isn't about the administration in a political statement of trying to soften the rhetoric out there and his position. This ought to be we should go get it.
And if we hear, "Well, we have to come up with a plan," I would be amazed. I mean, this is not something that's sprung upon us. If you think about how the country and the world addressed the Ebola thing and how nonchalantly, then, in response to this, it just amazes me.
BARTIROMO: It really is.
ROLLINS: Well, again, if we don't lead, this president needs to sit down with his military leaders, with his intelligence leaders who are spending billions and billions of dollars on intelligence. Where are these people? Let's go find them; let's get rid of them, get them on the run. If they're on the run, they can't be planning these kinds of activities. If they continue on the process they are, they're going to be back here very quickly again. And it doesn't take very many of them. There's probably 25 people involved in killing all these people in Paris, but they created terrorism all over the world.
BARTIROMO: But you have to step back and say why do we have this disorder in the Middle East; why do we have hundreds of thousands of refugees?
KISSEL: It's because President Obama withdrew. We are leading from behind. Hillary Clinton also said that last night. She boasted about Libya. She said France took the lead. Well, do we think Libya is a stable state? No, it's a haven for terror now.
BARTIROMO: Wow.
KISSEL: It started when he drew the red line in Syria and didn't follow through, did a deal with the mullahs in Iran. Iran backs Assad in Syria. This president isn't going to do anything about containing terrorism. He's not going to strike at the heart of the caliphate in the Middle East. He has tied American foreign policy to Iran. He has let Putin dominate in Syria. And I don't see any change coming in the next year. I think it's a very dangerous time.
NARDELLI: But -- and this is a different kind of war, Maria, exactly. We don't need to be sending brigades over there. We need to match our skills and our talents with the way they're fighting this war.
I mean, Ed and I were talking earlier. If you look at all the arms -- you mentioned it -- and what got into that country and how they're doing this thing, this is totally orchestrated but in isolated and individual attacks.
BARTIROMO: Very -- very well planned.
All right. Let me -- let me check in with "MediaBuzz" and Howie Kurtz. He's at the top of the hour, also covering this. Howie, good morning to you.
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, FOX NEWS'S "MEDIABUZZ": Good morning, Maria. We'll of course keep you updated on the investigation into the Paris attacks, but my special guest this morning is you. We had a chance to sit down in Milwaukee, talk about the challenge of moderating the Fox Business debate along with Neil Cavuto, and I've got interviews with three presidential candidates from Milwaukee, Ben Carson, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie, talking about their issues, talking about how they're covered, and talking, of course, about the media.
BARTIROMO: Yeah, amazing how things are moving so quickly. Howie, we will see you in about 15 minutes.
The Democratic presidential candidates meet for the second time on a debate stage last night. We'll talk about whether anyone stood out above the rest, as we look ahead this morning on "Sunday Morning Futures."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: I want to bring back our panel. We've got Ed Rollins, Mary Kissel, and Bob Nardelli with us this morning.
Anyone stand out to you in the Democratic debate last night?
You know, it was right in the face of what was happening in Paris, and I felt like there was a lot of talking points, but we didn't really talk about solutions in the face of...
ROLLINS: Obviously, it's -- it's Hillary's show, but she didn't perform very well last night. And I think the bottom line is "I'll be a little tougher than the president, but don't think the president's not doing a good job" was, sort of, her message of the night. I think John Dickinson did a nice job, just as you did a brilliant job last week.
BARTIROMO: Thank you.
ROLLINS: It got interrupted by commercials; it got interrupted -- it just wasn't -- it wasn't a substantive debate that you would expect, and I guarantee you half the people in Iowa shifted to the Iowa-Minnesota football game at halftime...
(LAUGHTER)
... and -- and didn't watch the debate.
BARTIROMO: Isn't that too bad, while, in fact, we've got these atrocities happening across Paris?
ROLLINS: Absolutely, right.
KISSEL: And I think it exposed the Democratic Party for what it is today, which is a far-left party completely unhinged from reality. When Bernie Sanders was asked, "What's the greatest threat to America today," and he answers "Climate change."
BARTIROMO: That's unbelievable.
KISSEL: I think Americans across the country, the ones who did watch the debate, which was buried on Saturday night television, would scratch their heads and say, "Are you kidding me? That's a joke. Of course it isn't."
As Ed said, Hillary didn't perform very well because she was secretary of state under Obama when a lot of these problems were beginning to fester, and sometimes she'll fall back on the idea that, "Yes, I called for more troops in Syria."
Well, you know what? She didn't resign when the president didn't follow that advice. So she's left to defend leading from behind, which is, of course, impossible.
ROLLINS: Well, she didn't even defend it. She walked -- she walked away from her vote on the Iraq War and she basically waffled all night long. And I think, when this came on -- when this -- the tragedy happened, I thought, "They have a tremendous opportunity on Saturday night to really show who's the tough leader," and they didn't do it.
BARTIROMO: Right.
NARDELLI: I think they stood out in a very profound way, albeit negative, in that they allowed this whole campaign to shift in the other direction by, as the panel has said, by not deliberately taking action, by not being forceful in their response. I mean, they had prime-time opportunity, Maria, as you know, to make some very positive statements. But I think they've allowed this whole thing to shift in the other direction.
KISSEL: Well, and I think they were eager to compete with one another to become the third term of Obama. Sanders wanted to get away from foreign policy as quickly as he could and talk about raising taxes; Hillary Clinton, it's the same agenda. It's class warfare. It's free college. It's government spending. It's let's pour more money into our failing schools, price controls on drugs. You can go right down the line.
The only difference between these candidates is a difference of degree, how many of them would be like Obama or even further to the left of him.
BARTIROMO: And we should point out that Bernie Sanders wants to raise taxes to 92 percent -- 92 percent. And so you saw about degrees. That is the all the way to the left of...
KISSEL: Right, but it's dangerous because they package it in Bernie Sanders, who's, kind of, you know, a likable grumpy older fellow, so it's not -- it doesn't seem as extreme as it absolutely is.
ROLLINS: The one issue they never touched on, the whole debate last night, was how we strengthen the defenses of the country, where they're going to vote on the defense appropriation that's up there today, what they're going to do on intelligence, what they're going to demand as president to make this a better country and a safer country.
BARTIROMO: No solutions, no real specific...
NARDELLI: No solutions at all. I mean, if you think about this tax rate, it would have a far-reaching impact, greater than anything that we've seen. You were asked earlier this morning on the show about what the market's going to do on Monday and so forth. You know, raising taxes far exceeds anything that will happen on this terrorist...
(CROSSTALK)
ROLLINS: The bad guys were not the terrorists. The bad guys were Wall Street, pharmaceutical companies, drug companies.
BARTIROMO: Last night. That's what the...
KISSEL: Right.
ROLLINS: Yes, that's what the...
KISSEL: And you can't have a strong defense without a strong economy, and all of them on the stage are advocating not just a 2 percent economy, but a zero percent growth economy, because they'd go farther than President Obama.
NARDELLI: And, listen, we all know there could be efficiency improvements in the military spending. That's a fact, you know, from my business experience. But we should not be pulling back on the number of submarines, the number of aircraft carriers and the development of anti-missile missiles and attack mechanisms.
BARTIROMO: I want to talk more about this. Because the $600 billion defense budget obviously is also being debated. The City of Lights darkened by terrorist attacks this weekend, people mourning the loss of life, some businesses and tourist sites remaining closed.
Up next, the panel on the economic impact. We're looking ahead this morning on "Sunday Morning Futures." Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back. The coordinated massacre in Paris having a ripple effect, now taking a toll on business, the broader economy, tourist sites shuttered in one of the most visited cities in the world. How will the markets react to the attacks, beginning with the Beijing market, which opens later today?
I'm back with Ed Rollins, Mary Kissel, Bob Nardelli.
Bob, we usually don't see an impact on -- on markets, right, from a terrorist attack?
NARDELLI: We usually don't.
BARTIROMO: Yeah.
NARDELLI: We usually don't. And I -- I'll be interested to see -- I'm a big fan of what Yellen has been doing. It will be interesting to see how this impacts her decision on raising rates in December.
BARTIROMO: OK.
NARDELLI: I think that will be very interesting.
You know, this has been a very soft recovery. You've said it; we've said it many, many times, kind of, lackluster. If they do raise rates, it's going to be more politically driven than quantitatively driven, in my opinion.
BARTIROMO: Well, you would expect that an economy slows down because people just stop going out, spending money.
Mary, how do you see it?
KISSEL: Well, I have to respectfully disagree with my panel. I'm not a big fan of what the Fed has done. They've distorted the price of money now for seven years. They should have raised rates years ago. They may have missed an entire interest rate cycle. I think they're distorting the price of credit. Now they're paralyzed.
But more broadly speaking, we have a 2 percent economy because we have shackled business and entrepreneurship in this country for seven years, whether it's Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, higher taxes. There's no prospect of that changing; we don't have other global growth engines out there, be it Japan or China or the E.U., which is now talking about more quantitative easing.
So I think we're going to continue to bump along here until hopefully we get someone in the White House who returns us to the spirit of risk-taking. That's what we need in this country, risk-taking, get government off the bat.
BARTIROMO: That's what we keep hearing, that, you know, we don't have that risk-taking.
ROLLINS: I worry about the Christmas season, which obviously starts very quickly today, and I think there's a lot of people that are going to be fearful of going -- a lot of Internet shopping as opposed to going to stores. But I think people are going to be very concerned about being out in the public because of this, and I think that, the more stories you hear-- all they have to do is have one incident somewhere in a shopping center and it will shut -- it will shut this economy down.
BARTIROMO: The other issue is these refugees. I mean...
ROLLINS: Absolutely.
BARTIROMO: ... you know, this did not come out very much last night, either, in terms of should we be taking in refugees? We know that it was an ISIS in refugees' clothing which was one of the main perpetrators in Paris.
NARDELLI: I think we have to stand down. We have to make sure we have a better way of vetting people that are coming into this country.
BARTIROMO: All right. We'll take a short break. We've got the one thing to watch for in the week ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures," next.
Make sure to tune into the Fox Business Network tomorrow, 5 a.m. Eastern, with "Mornings With Maria." We'll be live from Paris. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back. What to look at next week? You say it's Paul Ryan's week?
ROLLINS: I think Paul Ryan -- it's important for him to basically take leadership and move this Congress forward.
BARTIROMO: Mary?
KISSEL: Political reaction in France. After the Madrid train bombings, the Spaniards voted in a pacifist government. Will the French people find their spine?
BARTIROMO: Bob Nardelli, Mary Kissel, Ed Rollins, thank you so much for joining us. Very good conversation. That will do it for "Sunday Morning Futures." I'm Maria Bartiromo.
Tomorrow morning I'll be live from Paris with a special "Mornings With Maria" on the Fox Business Network. We'll begin at 5 a.m. Eastern Time. Take a look at where to find FBN on your cable network. Have a good Sunday, everybody. Thanks for joining us.
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