Sources: 'High probability' bomb brought down Russian plane; Tarantino not backing down from cop controversy

Rep. Peter King and Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer weigh in on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight. Quentin Tarantino is not backing down from his controversial comments about police as the divisive Hollywood director now doubles down on an issue that has made him a target of more than a quarter million police officers across this country.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Facing a nationwide police boycott of his films, the latest of which is due out this Christmas. Tarantino chose to give his first TV interview just moments ago to MSNBC host Chris Hayes.

Yesterday, Tarantino offered his first comments on the controversy telling the L.A. Times that he had been slandered and refusing to apologize for remarks so incendiary that not even his Hollywood bosses are backing him up. Harvey Weinstein, the producer behind his latest film is reportedly furious with Mr. Tarantino. Hear the comments Tarantino made and an anti-police brutality rally that made folks so angry.


QUENTIN TARANTINO, ACTOR/PRODUCER: I am a human being with a conscience. And when I see murder, I cannot stand by, and I have to call the murdered the murdered, and I have to call the murderers the murderers.


KELLY: Well, just moments ago, Tarantino gave his very first sit-down interview since the controversy started. And when given the chance to apologize, Tarantino, instead, appeared to double down.


TARANTINO: We were at a rally that was dealing with unarmed people, mostly black and brown who had been shot and killed or beaten or strangled by the police. And I was obviously referring to the people in those type of situations. I was referring to Eric Gardener. I was referring to Sam Debose. I was referring to Antonio Guzman Lopez. I was referring to Tamir Rice. That's what I was referring too. In those cases in particular that we're talking about, I actually do believe that they were murdered. I was under the impression that I was American. And that I had First Amendment rights and there was no problem with me going to an antipolice brutality protest. And speaking my mind. And just because I was at an antipolice brutality protest doesn't mean I'm anti-police because I have made statements in some interviews, you know, along the way that have suggested that I'm on their side when it comes to this issue of, you know, ultimately what I feel is a problem of white supremacy in this country.

And they realized that I -- you know, they gather that I was on their side and they approached me about it. And they explained the situation to me. And I was happy to show up. The timing whether it was very unfortunate and in his death, that officer's death is a tragedy, I acknowledge that 100 percent. And my heart goes out to him and goes out to his loved ones. However, the point of the rally was to bring these families. We had over 40 families, not 40 people, but 40 different families that this has happened to come out and tell their stories and say their loved ones names. And that's not what being told to talk about.

And so what, because that happened, we're going to say, oh, no, no, don't tell your story. I know we flew you out here. We're going to fly you back. We'll do it at another time. It's just not convenient. I'm not a cop hater. The Patrick Lynch -- that's the way they attacked me, calling me a cop hater, that's the way that Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke who was on FOX all the time says that I'm putting police in danger by standing up for the rights of unarmed citizens who have been killed by the police.

But at the same time, they say that about anybody who acknowledges that there's a problem in law enforcement in this country right now, is considered by law enforcement part of the problem, whether that be me, whether that be Bill de Blasio, whether that be President Barack Obama, who, in the case of both Patrick Lynch and David Clarke have accused all three of us. It's much easier to feign outrage and start arguments with celebrities than it is to deal with the fact that they've -- the citizenry has lose trust in them.


KELLY: So, I don't think he's going to be apologizing.

Joining me now to discuss it, former NY City Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik and Bill Stanton, a former NYPD officer and founding partner of QVerity. Good to see you both.

So, no, there won't be an apology. Instead, we've taken it to a new level. This is not only about bad cops, it's about their white supremacy.  Mr. Commissioner, I'll let you start with that one.

BERNIE KERIK, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: I can even get into the white supremacy thing. I think there's two primary issues. This is a guy that didn't have the courage to go out and do the job that the men and women in this country do in law enforcement. He wouldn't have the courage, the commitment, the dedication. And I think something there's something that has to be said for the number you started with. There's 700,000 cops in this country. State, local and federal law enforcement officers. When you tack on their families, I think they should send the message to him and people like him. Cops aren't murderers. They have to send them a message and make sure he understands that. And one of the ways to make him understand it, is they have to send them message by not attending his movie. By, you know --

KELLY: And that's clearly what this is -- he had to come out because the pressure is mounting on him and the Hollywood producers are not happy that he chose to go to this antipolice brutality rally. But it certainly sounded in his words like there was a greater sentiment there. And instead of just saying, you know, to those good cops that I loved in or who felt loved in by my blanket statement, I apologize, he did not apologize, he played the victim and then he added racism into it.

BILL STANTON, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: He played the victim. And he says he's a person with a conscience. Well, this ex-cop is someone with common sense. And, in my opinion, he is a buffoon. He is doing something that is becoming so divisive in this country and is just throwing fuel on the fire.  And he's making a mistake. While he has his First Amendment right to spout all of this, ridiculousness --

KELLY: Correct. Right.

STANTON: It's my First Amendment right and my vote not to go to that movie and to go to every other movie but his. And I've got a strong feeling the families of police officers as well as cops aren't going to go.  We're tough breeds. Sticks and stones and bullets can hurt us. But his words, they just irritate everyone.

KELLY: But what he says is now that these cops are feigning outrage.  That they're feigning their outrage at what he said.

KERIK: You know, Megyn, there's another issue here. He did this three or four days after the death of police officer Holder in the city.

KELLY: Well, he admitted that the timing was very bad. He said, I admit it, it was very unfortunate.

KERIK: Well, that's his decision. He decided to stand-up there. And who did they stand-up there, with the same people that are calling for cops to be killed. Those same types of people. Well, if that's what you're going to do, if that's what you think you're going to do, then I think I think it's time for the cops to pay it back and send a message.

KELLY: He came out Bill though and said, I'm not a cop hater. You know, that there are some, and he listed some of the cases where there were actual murders, true murders, deemed murders by the criminal justice system by cops of Black citizens. And that's incontrovertible. So he says, I'm referring to cases like that. Not to all cops.

STANTON: You know the way it sounds like when a racist will say, well, you're black, you are not like one of them. And to me, it's racist against every officer in blue. He makes these blanket statements and he tries to take a baby step back and then doubles down. It's ridiculous.  You know, cops overwhelmingly put their lives on the line. This man is a hypocrite. There were people in Hollywood. There are a number of them that live in a bubble. There are others who don't think like him. But he's in a bubble while he is on a private jet, on his private sets being protected, by the way, by cops and ex-cops.

KELLY: Oh, just a couple of weeks ago, he called the cops, this hit earlier that he just had to call the cops, to his state 13 days before he whipped up that crowd when somebody broke on his property.

KERIK: But it's the same as -- as Billy is talking about, it's the same kind of guy that's in Hollywood that makes tens of millions of dollars --

KELLY: He's worth over $100 million.

KERIK: Imitating the lives of these cops. There's people in Hollywood --

KELLY: Who makes 50,000 bucks a year.

KERIK: Who makes 50 to 60,000 bucks a year. That's right.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Here's the last thing. To what extent do the media and even the politicians play in to this narrative? Because there was a report even earlier this week, Hillary Clinton met with the mother of Trayvon Martin, fine. Tamara Rice, fine as a controversial case. But also, the mother of Michael Brown. Michael Brown who was killed, it's been proven, by the Department of Justice. While he was attacking a police officer. And so people hold up. People like Michael Brown, as these victim of cops when it's been proven. He was not.

STANTON: So, here's the question. Would Hillary Clinton be visiting Officer Wilson if Michael Brown finished the job he started? My guess is no.

KELLY: Great to see you both. Thank you.

STANTON: Thank you for being here.

KELLY: Coming up, breaking news on what may be the worst terror attack since 9/11. And it looks more and more like a bomb brought down a passenger jet killing more than 240 men, women and small children.  Congressman Peter King attending a closed door briefing late today on it.  And he and Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer will join us next with new details and whether this could happen here.

Plus, a stunning upset in Kentucky where a Tea Party conservative is now governor elect. But the bigger story may be what this means for the 2016 presidential race and Chris Stirewalt and Dana Perino and Howie Kurtz are just ahead on that. Along with the new poll, shaking up the GOP race.

And then, a week after Senator Rubio is hammered for suggesting Hillary Clinton lied about Benghazi, we've got a new look at what the families of the victims are saying the secretary told them and how the media reported it all. This as we get a sneak peek at the soon-to-be- released film about this American tragedy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, are we expecting any friendlies?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not aware of any friendlies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them come. Let them come.



KELLY: Breaking tonight. Sources in the U.S. government now telling Fox News, there is a, quote, "high probability that a bomb took down that Russian passenger jet over Egypt." Our sources telling us, the U.S. cannot yet confirm who's behind what maybe one of the worst single terrorist attacks since 9/11. But tonight, ISIS is again claiming credit for the disaster and there's new reporting that the U.S. intercepted ISIS communications that may put these questions to rest.

We are joined by Congressman Peter King who was briefed on this today.  And Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer who worked on Boeing, Boeing on preventing bombs from being smuggled onto planes.

But we begin with our Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge with the very latest. Catherine.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Megyn. Tonight, FOX News confirming that the intelligence community has intercepts. These are the communications between known terrorist operatives that further supports this preliminary assessment, an explosion brought down the jet with a device possibly planted by ISIS. The President's national security team had no comment tonight saying speculation with only prejudice the investigation led by the Egyptians.

Increasingly, the focus is on the passengers who were killed and those who would access to the aircrafts and including ground crews and luggage handlers. The British government said tonight that it's suspending British flights out of the airport and the Egyptian resort of Sharm El-Sheik until further notice and all British citizens are advised to avoid air travel to the region based on intelligence from multiple threat streams.


PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We have concluded that there is a significant possibility that that crash was caused by an explosive device on board the aircraft.


HERRIDGE: Meantime, U.S. officials that encountered terrorism and intelligence agencies here in Washington are urging caution and no rush to judgment because the black box has been recovered but they are damaged and have not been fully evaluated and a catastrophic failure has not being completely ruled out. But, today, for a second time, ISIS claimed responsibility for the downed jets. FOX News has told that both social media accounts are considered highly credible and senior leadership accounts, so their claims carry more weight. As a member of the House Intelligence Committee warned ISIS is expanding its reach.


REP. MIKE POMPEO, R-KAN., INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: ISIS certainly has a bomb-making capability. It's also likely that they have a chemical weapons capability. They are drawing talent from all across the world. This administration has consistently underestimated the risk that ISIS places, not in Syria, not in Iraq, but in places that American finds themselves.  It will call out for a redoubling of American strategy to crush ISIS now.


HERRIDGE: The intelligence contact says two Palestinian bomb-makers had the talent to make devices that use what's called an arming switch base on barometric pressure. And one was in Iraq and connected to the al-Qaeda guys who became ISIS. He then fled to Yemen in 2009. We just don't know the significance though of this data point tonight in any connection -- Megyn.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Catherine Herridge, thank you.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

KELLY: Joining us now with more, Congressman Peter King who is a member of the Homeland Security and Intelligence Committees and Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer who is a CIA-trained Intel operative and senior fellow at the London Center for Policy Research.

Great to see you both. Congressman King, let me start with you. Now that the United States is involved in this and seems to be suggesting that we, too, believe that this plane may have been bombed. Is that your information?

REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y., HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: I cannot go into details, but I can tell you that a number of top intelligence people in our country and Great Britain and other countries do believe that this is a very likelihood that this was a bomb of some type of explosive on the plane. It's not definite. And I can't go into detail other than to say that obviously -- and from just listening to us with the very top people, you know, at all levels and many governments, the number of governments, there is a rolling consensus that there was a bomb on the plane. But, again, that's not definitive.

KELLY: Right. But if that's what we're looking at --


KELLY: If that's what we're looking at and in fact, ISIS is responsible, as it's claiming, then we have ISIS committing --

KING: Right.

KELLY: -- what they're saying is the worst terrorist attacks since 9/11 successfully killing nearly 230 people include a 10-month-old baby girl --

KING: Yes.

KELLY: -- whose picture we saw the other night. I mean, just to put a human face on it.

KING: Absolutely.

KELLY: And Lieutenant Colonel Shaffer, the question is how? How?

TONY SHAFFER, CIA TRAINED INTELLIGENCE OPERATIVE: Well, simply put, the vector going into the aircraft is limited by only the imagination of those on the ground. I mean, let's be frank here. You've got food service, you've got people who have access to luggage. And I would rule out someone who was actually on the fight. I mean, they've gone through the manifest. We don't completely know.

KELLY: They went to the manifest, but they say that we have not found -- none of the passengers or crew members were found on any U.S. terrorism data bases.

SHAFFER: Yes. Yes. That's right.

KELLY: Yes. But, again, you know, somehow a bomb got on the aircraft. And I think we have to look at the perimeter and how it was breeched. Let's remember Megyn, the chief of security of that airport has been fired. That's a clue. And all of this has circumstantial. And I think what we have to recognize and Congressman King sits here and I, you know, we have to take this very seriously. These guys have figured out a way to penetrate security and get in there. And by the way, you and I -- I talked about ISIS becoming expeditionary. I got a little push back on that. But now, it looks like more than ever, that they are actually spreading their wings. They may have well recruited someone. And all the places that were mentioned in her report, there are ISIS in all of those places. So, I think we have to look at how the logical vector would have been from one of these ISIS folks to put together a weapon, a bomb, to get it through security and get an aircraft. There may be al-Qaeda involved.  There may be other elements. But I think clearly, Dr. al-Zawahiri here, the leader of al-Qaeda said, it's time now to come together to do something. So, I think the encouragement of him and others --  

KELLY: Okay. Here's the question that people are wondering Congressman King. They're wondering whether this could happen at home.  Because what we have is TSA agents, while doing their best, constantly let things go through. And guns get through undetected, knives get through undetected. And the question is whether a bomb could get through undetected here. And whether that could have happened in Egypt, as well.  If it wasn't an inside job where they actually just allowed it.

KING: In fact, Megyn, it could happen. I mean, just last year in New York, there was a massive investigation, we have found out through -- a year, at least, we had heavy-duty weapons actually being smuggled and put on American planes. Starting in Atlanta coming up to New York by government officials, by airport officials rather, who are allowing this to happen. It certainly can happen. And now, we've been doing this since 9/11. And the securities so much better. But yes, it can happen. And that's why it shows (INAUDIBLE) as far as working, the securities Megyn, every airport worker. It always goes through security.

KELLY: What about? Let me ask you about that. Because they're saying, an airport source told NBC News that the Egyptian Security is focused on the departure hall, who was part of the catering and cleaning services --


KELLY: -- who had permission to be in the departure lounge. Now, what does that mean, Colonel that they're talking about? Food service?

SHAFFER: Food service departure means someone who's actually putting people on the aircraft. That means to say that somebody who is actually an employee could have taken something the size of a carry on and stuck it on the aircraft next to a passenger. The passenger may not even noticed it.  So, they're looking right at the source. And this is ultimately we're talking about, an insider threat. You cannot take care and prevent every single insider threat. This is why screening is so important. And in this case Megyn, somebody called the Muslim Brotherhood, is heavily penetrated every element of the Egyptian government.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

SHAFFER: So, it's very possible here. We're talking about again, a combined operation. These terrorists groups will come together to do things and an ultimate insider could be a Muslim Brotherhood recruit who has been sitting there, a slipper for a long time who had access to something, and slip it in.

KELLY: Unbelievable. Thank you both. Thank you for being here tonight.

KING: This is a game-changer. This is a game-changer.

SHAFFER: Absolutely.

KELLY: Congressman, thank you.

KING: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, we also have big political news tonight on a surprise Republican win in Kentucky. Everyone predicted this guy would lose. Wow, the pollsters got it really wrong.

Chris Stirewalt will explain why and what it could mean for 2016.  Next.

Plus, as fans await the new Star Wars movie. There's new controversy over one of the most famous moments from the popular films. See how Disney is planning to handle the uproar over Princess Leah and her "slave" outfit.  Yes. Yes. Just ahead.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, a stunning upset in the race for governor of Kentucky. And a stunning failure for the pollsters. Recent surveys had predicted a tight contest that still gave a three or four point edge to the Democratic Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway. But when the votes were counted, Republican businessman Matt Bevin defeated Conway by a margin of almost 10 points.

Chris Stirewalt is our Fox News digital politics editor, he also helps project the winners right here on Fox News and election night. And he thinks there's a big story here. What is it, Chris?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, I mean, the big story on the surface is plainly Republicans have good auguries going into the next election cycle. They win in Kentucky, a race where they were not favored to win. They hold the Senate in Virginia in the face of an incredible onslaught of anti-gun money that was coming in. From Michael Bloomberg, in a state governed by Hillary Clinton's former campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe. So, the Republicans have plenty of good news.  And they also, in Ohio, they turned back an effort for legalizing pot, in Ohio. So, Republican conservatives' voters have lots to be happy about this. But the polling is another story. And it's heinous. It's bad --


STIREWALT: Well, look, there's two things that affect this. There's one, and we saw this all over the place in 2014 which are the wrong assumptions of pollsters. Every poll even the best, start with assumptions, about what the electorate is going to look like. It would be this white, this black, this female, this Republican, all of those things.  And then they're looking for a sample that comports with that.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

STIREWALT: So if the assumptions are wrong, the polls can be off.  But if it's a good poll over time, you can fix it. You can see that your assumptions were wrong and you get there by the end. And that's what happened with some good polling in 2014. But in this case, what you have is a bad assumption combined with an absolute, absolute dog pile of a poll.  You have a poll that is robo dial, fake -- this is not a poll that we would use --  

KELLY: It's so mean. That survey USA. Here it is. Here's the one that he's talking about. It showed Conway with 45 percent. And Bevin with 40 going into this elections. And of course, Bevin wound up winning by 10 points. Go ahead.

STIREWALT: So you can't call cell phones on a machine. The robo polls that are so cheap to do and people like to do because you can get a headline, even though the poll is not real, those robo polls aren't allowed to call people on their cell phone.


STIREWALT: That's the law.

KELLY: And it turns out, some people actually used cellphones in 2015 in America.

STIREWALT: As it turns out.


STIREWALT: So, they make up for it with junkie online polls.

KELLY: So why do we care about it? Why is this relevant to anybody's life?

STIREWALT: Not all of it. Not all of it. But you have to be discerning. The point is, we have Republican front-runner nationally in Donald Trump who talks about the polls every day. Seventy five million times a day. There is a Trump discussion about polling and this polling and that polling and the other polling. The point is, everybody has to be discerning. Some of these polls are real junk. If you want to know the trend and the electorate, if you want to know what's going on, use your reliable polls and then drill down on the data to find out what's really going on. So, you will be a smart --

KELLY: And the Real Clear Politics average of all the polls is always --

Let me ask you about these other issues. Because you mentioned some of them, there was another Houston rejected in LGBT rights measured that would have allowed, they were calling it the bathroom bill, but critics were suggesting, you don't want a transgender person to use your child's bathroom and so on. In any event, the mayor claimed it was discriminatory.  But the Republicans, the conservatives won that. In addition to the other ones you mentioned, and the conclusion by some have been that the Liberals are losing the culture wars in this country as they lose, I should say, 70 percent of state legislatures to Republicans. Sixty plus percent of the Governor's houses are held by Republicans. Fifty five percent of the Attorney General's position, the Secretary of State are held by the Republicans, not to mention the National House and Senate.

STIREWALT: Well, the very fact that the debate of the cultural wars is over trans-gendered people and the ladies' room tells us that the conservatives probably didn't hold the line very well. If that's where the fight is being fought, they've probably have lost a lot of ground. But when it comes to the Obama era in the Democratic Party, it has been a catastrophe for everybody but him. He was elected and he was re-elected.  But his party has taken it in the shorts for cycle after cycle after interim, after midterm and lost 900 seats in state legislatures.

KELLY: I'm good. I'm all good.

STIREWALT: See you at the library.

KELLY: Yes, see you. All right. See you, Chris.


KELLY: Well, we also have two polls out tonight with big news for the Republican primary. And for the general election.

Dana Perino and Howie Kurtz have the breakdown right after this break.

Plus, we are fact-checking the Benghazi fact checkers tonight. As we also get a brand new look at the soon-to-be-released film on the deadly attack.


UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: As long as I'm doing the right thing, God will take care of me.  

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: -- Americans are going to die.





KELLY: Well, breaking tonight. Two new polls out today with a mixed message from the man previously reading the GOP race for the White House, Donald Trump, republican 2016 frontrunner keeps his number spot in a Fox poll out just hours ago, maintaining his lead over Dr. Ben Carson. He also has a slight edge over Carson in the Quinnipiac Poll out today, but it is within the margin of error. The general election match ups out in this poll however, paint a different picture for the GOP frontrunner. Dr. Carson, Senator Rubio, Senator Cruz, all beat democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head match-up. The republican who does not beat Mrs. Clinton? Donald Trump who fall short 43 to Clinton's 46 percent. All of this as Trump makes headlines this morning for an interview with another network, where he slams the very network he's on the phone with, something he is apparently fond of doing.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know I'm getting the biggest crowds by far. Yesterday, other than Sara Murray didn't report it very well.


TRUMP: Because she never flips the camera to show the lines. I think she's absolutely terrible, your reporter.

CUOMO: Hope selling well.

TRUMP: If you listen to Sara Murray, you would think there were three people standing in the atrium of Trump Tower.

CUOMO: I understand that.

TRUMP: Either she's a very unemotional person or she's not a very good reporter, one or the other.

CUOMO: All right, let's talk.

TRUMP: You are a top notch. I don't see it with Sara Murray.

CUOMO: All right.

TRUMP: You have me followed by Sara Murray and she doesn't know what she's doing.

CUOMO: Listen.

TRUMP: And she doesn't report what I say.

CUOMO: Listen Trump, you have to skip the most attention.

TRUMP: I don't know if that's because she's incompetent or she doesn't like me or maybe she's given instructions from up above.


TRUMP: There has to be an agenda some place in CNN.



KELLY: Howie Kurtz is the host of "MediaBuzz." Dana Perino is the co- host of "The Five," right here on Fox and served as White House press secretary to President George W. Bush. So, Howie, good to see you -- you know, as Trump gets challenged by Dr. Carson in more and more polls. And as of this morning, Carson actually was the frontrunner in the real clear politics average above all polls which preceded the Fox News poll where Trump is ahead. He's getting a little bit sharper in language against his competitors and it gets as just as (inaudible) as ever about reporters who don't cover him, exactly the way he wants to be covered.

HOWIE KURTZ, "MEDIABUZZ" HOST: This is really strange, Megyn. I was at the Trump Tower press conference, and Trump was praising CNN's Sara Murray for asking -- it was a great question a wonderful question. So then, the next morning, he goes ballistic. He's on CNN, ripping the CNN correspondent. Chris Cuomo keeps trying to move on while defending his reporter. He goes on and on and on. And yes, it is true there was a massive line for the book signing outside Trump Tower. CNN's camera was inside, so it showed few press people, nothing gets Donald Trump more infuriated than when he thinks the media are not -- or ignoring his huge crowd.

KELLY: Can I just tell you so, I don't really know this reporter very well, but we did -- we took a quick look at her reports. She doesn't show the lines he says. She did show crowds. She also verbally described the crowds. On October 1st she did focus on Trump's steady poll dominance, hinting that he would be the nominee. Another report was very fair saying Carson is doing great, but so is Trump in October 26th piece (ph) first line. Donald Trump knows how to rally a crowd. Leader Trump lures crowd by the thousands. But the problem, Dana, is, unless you say it just the way he wants you to say it, you get hit. And the thing that happens on some of these networks is they give him an unfettered arena in which to assault the press, which helps with some voters because they don't like reporters. They don't like the media. You know that from your time in the White House.

DANA PERINO, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: That's right. So that -- there's only -- the he media has a lower approval rating than the Congress and that is hard to do.

KELLY: And the Congress is lower than a cockroach. So that's make us lower than a cockroach too.

PERINO: So it is hard if you are in the press. I think Sara Murray is a great reporter and I think Chris Cuomo did a nice job of trying to defend her. I also think that Donald Trump wasted a major opportunity to talk about.

KELLY: His position.

PERINO: His position or even to have said, if I were Donald Trump, and I'm not, but if I were, I would have said, Chris, did you see what happened last night? Republican victories huge all across the country, why do you think that is Chris? It's because of me. And they better stick with me because I'm going to take them through to 2016. Instead, he spends so much time talking about the size of his line. It's like, it's an obsession that I don't think serves him well. Now, he's up in the polls, so he will dismiss my criticism, I'm sure, but.

KELLY: He's up some polls and.

PERINO: I think I'm right.

KELLY: He's losing some ground another polls because Carson is giving him a run for his money. And then on the other hand, Howie, you have reporters like Chris Cuomo on this instance, and it's happened on other networks where the reporter interview Trump at the moment says, "Am I fair? Do you think I'm fair? I'm fair, though, right? If you think I've been fair in this interview?" And Rush Limbaugh was out today saying, "These reporters, they need -- they love it when Trump compliments them and they hate it when he hits them. And they somehow need his praise, and if you happen to be a reporter who doesn't need his praise, that drives him crazy, too."


KURTZ: Well, in fairness, Cuomo has really tangle with Trump in a number of interviews. Another interesting tidbit from this press conference is that -- when I asked Trump about his (inaudible) efforts, you know, change the debate rules, 67 degrees, do you want a pillow? He said, "Well, Hillary got all softball questions at the CNN debate. You should have been asked about Bill," he said. And I said, really? Should be ask about her husband? But Anderson Cooper pointed out, who moderated the debate, that Trump had praised Anderson Cooper's performance. That was then, this is now. Look, there's a bit about the polls is, it doesn't really matter that much if he's up three-points or down three-points in a national poll of Ben Carson. Psychologically, it's important. The media pays a lot of attention to it and Trumps loves to (inaudible).

KELLY: Right, because Trump is leading by a considerable margin in New Hampshire, in Florida, in Georgia and he continually points those state polls which are very relevant. I guess this is a psychological aspect to the national ones.

KURTZ: Exactly.

KELLY: What do you make of it, Dana, because right now, Dr. Carson is saying, "Hey, great. I'm on top on some of these polls, but with frontrunner status comes more and more media scrutiny." And Trump is right that Ben Carson is about to get it in a way that he hasn't not gotten it, in over the past a couple of months.

PERINO: That's right. So there's been a very different campaign. I thought it was very interesting today to find out that one of the things that Carson's campaign has done is they did 240 different targeted Facebook ads. It's a very different campaign. So where Trump is boisterous, Carson is calm. Where Trump is -- like hitting people and being mean, Carson is nice. And there's appeal, apparently, as the two outsiders, to a lot of different people, there's enough appeal. But there is scrutiny, there's one good number for Trump today, especially in the Fox News polls was that, when it comes to the issue of the economy, he was up 42 percent way, way ahead of anybody else, especially Carson. So that will be something that Carson has to try to overcome.

The thing I really don't like is that Trump in his Saturday Night Live promo, actually does it -- he's at the moment to be fun and light. He actually says in this four-second promo that SNL is running, that Ben Carson is a loser. I don't think that it's appealing.

KELLY: I heard that many times from him.

PERINO: To people.

KELLY: Yeah.

PERINO: I mean, why not hit Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: Yeah.

PERINO: Or just like -- if you have a chance to be on Saturday Night Live, I'll be funny, be self deprecating. That's actually something that works the best.

KELLY: Fascinating -- Dana Perino, with great advice as always, great to see you. Great to see you too, Howie.

KURTZ: Thank you.

KELLY: And mark your calendar. The next Republican debate is six days away, Tuesday, November 10th on the Fox Business Network. Trish Regan, Sandra Smith will start the debate coverage at 6:00 p.m. Then Maria Bartiromo and Neil Cavuto will take over for the second debate at 9:00 p.m. in primetime. And then, tune into a special "Kelly File" live at midnight with complete debate analysis. We'll have you covered right here on FNC.

Well, Senator Marco Rubio got hammered in the media for suggesting that Hillary Clinton lied about Benghazi. That she's been lying about it, that she has lied about it. Tonight, we look at what the victim's family says -- she actually told them and whether the fact-checkers ignored their testimonials.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got only (inaudible) these guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you do right now is determine whether we live or die.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Benghazi is under attack. We need immediate assistance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. ambassador at risk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to send us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not the first responders. You will wait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, we've got to move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not even supposed to be here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loosing initiative.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do not get here soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are all going to die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of you have to go. We are the only help they have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) we're coming in, (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm on the roof, don't leave me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're under heavy fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, are we expecting any friendly?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not aware of any friendlies (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let it go. Let it go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got only (inaudible) these guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you do right now is determine whether we live or die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as I'm doing the right thing, God will take care of me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you're not (inaudible).


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then treating the one spoken to right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not giving me away. You're my world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My family (inaudible).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm thinking about my girls, man.



KELLY: Wow. That was a blockbuster new trailer from "13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi," a movie about the real life terror attack that claims the lives of four Americans at the height of the last presidential election. It comes on the same day that conservative columnist Guy Benson raises new questions about a Washington fact check on Hillary Clinton, and what she told the victims' families in the days after that terrorist attack. Guy Benson is a Fox News contributor and co-author of the book, End of Discussion. Guy, thanks for being here. So after Marco Rubio.


KELLY: At the last presidential debate said to Hillary Clinton live, that she said this is about the video when she knew it was not. The Washington Post did a fact check saying, "You can't really say lie." She says it was a confusing time. It was the thug-of-war and they give short thrift that to the testimonial, by the families of the dead that there was nothing ambiguous about what she said to them when she told them flat out, this was -- you were -- they were killed because of a video.

BENSON: That's right. And Rubio was awarded two Pinocchio's by the Washington Post and their fact-checker for calling Hillary Clinton a liar, at last week's presidential debate. And, you know what? I think there should be a robust debate about whether or not Mrs. Clinton intentionally and deliberately distorted what happened that night, for public consumption. I happen to believe that the evidence supports Marco Rubio on this and that he's on firm ground. But what caught my attention, Megyn, about this fact check in particular, was a line given to the Washington Post, a quote from a campaign spokesman, from Hillary Clinton who flat out denied that Hillary had ever blamed the violence in Benghazi on that internet video that turned out of course, to be totally irrelevant. So if the Clinton campaign is now saying that she never blamed the video, that directly contradicts the statements from multiple family members of the victims, who have said on the record, including on your show, Megyn, as you know, that that is precisely what Mrs. Clinton told them.

KELLY: Right.

BENSON: On September the 14th at Andrews Airport.


KELLY: So when you're doing the fact check and you're looking at statements that she's offered about Benghazi and the latest statement is "I never blamed that attack on a video," why wouldn't you take into account -- and why would you be so dismissive of the following testimonials of the families of the victims. Watch.


CHARLES WOODS, SON KILLED IN BENGHAZI TERROR ATTACK: Let me just read what's written down here. It says, "I gave Hillary a hug and shook her hand." And she said, "We are going to have the film maker arrested, who is responsible for the death of your son."

KATE QUIGLEY, BROTHER KILLED IN BENGHAZI TERROR ATTACK: When I think backing out that day and what she knew, you know, it shows me a lot about her character that she would choose in that moment to basically perpetuate what she knew was untrue.

PATRICIA SMITH, SON KILLED IN BENGHAZI TERROR ATTACK: She told me personally with the video. Obama told me. Panetta told me. Biden told me. They all told me at the casket ceremony, that it was the video.


KELLY: And yet, Guy, they, they seem to be forgotten in this whole debate.

BENSON: Well, it's interesting. Working backwards there you had Sean Smith's mother, then Glen Doherty's sister, and to me, very compelling, Tyrone Woods' father who had written a contemporaneous journal.

KELLY: Right. That will be.

BENSON: About his meeting.

KELLY: In a court of law.

BENSON: Right. He went through and he actually read directly from what he wrote at the time, all three of them from three different victims' families with the same recollection, which that Hillary Clinton blamed the video when they met with her on September the 14th. And keep in mind, what we found out at those Benghazi hearings a few weeks ago, was that a few days prior to telling them that, she was telling her own daughter and Egyptian officials that she knew exactly what had happened. It was a planned terrorist attack by an al-Qaeda offshoot. It was not a video, it was not a spontaneous protest.

KELLY: And it happened.

BENSON: And now we have the Clinton campaign saying.

KELLY: Right.

BENSON: She never said it.

KELLY: And it happened in an election year. I got to go. Thanks, Guy. We'll be right back.

BENSON: Thank you.


KELLY: Well, in the latest sign that we are eventually going to purge every single piece of cultural history by the time we're done. There is new controversy tonight over one of the most famous moments from the wildly popular Star Wars film, perhaps you heard of them. The latest controversy involves Princess Leia and her famous slave outfit. You're offended, you're feeling it. I know. Trace Gallagher is too, he reports from our west coast newsroom, Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Megyn, you talk about a rumor catching fire, the news of Princess Leia slave girl costume being retired didn't come from Disney which now owns the right to Star Wars and it didn't come from Lucas Films which create the character. It came from a Star Wars comic book artist who wrote on Facebook, quoting here, "Disney is already well on its way to wiping out the slave outfit from any future products, period. You will not see future merchandising featuring the slave outfit ever again, trust me." Well, a lot of publications did trust him and they ran with the rumor. Until the comic book artist started walking it back, posting on Twitter that he didn't make the statement with any authority. But even though Disney, Lucas Films and Hasbro, the company that makes the Princess Leia dolls, didn't confirm that slave girl costume was going away, neither did they knock the statement down. The costume has long been called sexist and inappropriate for children, teenage boys notwithstanding. And if it did go away, apparently wouldn't break Carrie Fisher's heart. The original Princess Leia recently interviewed the new female Star Wars lead, telling her quote, "Don't be a slave like I was. You keep fighting against the slave outfit." And even if the costume does away, it's not like Disney is worried about the bottom line because the new Star Wars film expected to turn about two -- maybe $3 billion.

KELLY: Oh. Oh, is that all? They'll be OK. The mouse always wins. Great to see you, Trace. We'll be right back.



KELLY: So I just learned something incredible about my crew in here. They have like, four weeks of tickets to the new "Star Wars" and they're going to go every night for three, four weeks. Are you doing that? Can you relate?, follow me on Twitter @megynkelly, let me know what you think. And what do you think of the Princess Leia slave? Into it? No? Much to stay. Let it go. See you tomorrow.

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