Republican presidential candidates tackle drug debate

Report: Life expectancy in US falling due to drug use, addiction


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Kirsten Powers, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It s 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

As a new study was shows an alarming trend of life expectancy falling among white Americans, the reasons point to drug use and addiction as a major factor in the downturn. Dana and I wondered for months, why drugs haven't become a more prominent campaign topic? Almost overnight, the drug debate has become a campaign issue. Here's a video of Chris Christie talking about his friend from law school that's going viral.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A year and a half ago on a Sunday morning, Mary Pat and I got the call that we've been dreading forever, that they found him dead in a motel room with an empty bottle of Percocet and an empty quart bottle of vodka, 52-years-old. By every measure that we define success in this country, this guy had it. Great-looking guy, well-educated, great career, plenty of money, beautiful loving wife, beautiful children, great house, he had everything. He's a drug addict. And he couldn't get help and he's dead.


BOLLING: Notice the video was taken from a Christie speech delivered to the very important New Hampshire audience, and Jeb has made his daughter's drug addiction a campaign topic.


JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I have some personal experience in this just as a dad and it is the most heartbreaking thing in the world to have to go through. We over-medicate in this country, the gateway drug isn't marijuana any more for heroin and cocaine or crack cocaine. I mean there still is that gate, I guess, but prescription drugs now, we're way over-prescribing as a nation.


BOLLING: And who can't forget Carly Fiorina's emotional debate comments about addiction.


CARLY FIORINA, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I very much hope that I am the only person on this stage who can say this, but I know there are millions of Americans out there who will say the same thing. My husband, Frank and I buried a child to drug addiction. So we must invest more in the treatment of drugs.


BOLLING: Now Dana, I pointed out that you and I have been talking about this. Why isn't the drug debate, the addiction debate been a bigger topic in 2016.


BOLLING: It is now?

PERINO: Yes. So about six weeks ago, when your guest was Bill O'Reilly and I had a chance to be on, I was asked, "What do you think is one of the top stories of the week?" And I said, what people are missing in New Hampshire is that, nationwide, this story has not been a big topic, but in New Hampshire, the candidate were all reporting back that the first question that they get it all of their town halls is not about ISIS or immigration or the economy, it's about what can you do to help us with our drug addiction problem. For example, in Manchester, New Hampshire, a town of 110,000 people, by August of this year, so within nine months of the year, they had 350 overdoses already by that year. So could you wake up in the morning and you find out, oh my, gosh, what happened to the prom queen? The prom queen now is an addict and she died. And -- so it is the topic that at least has gotten the attention of a couple of people in particular, Hillary Clinton. She recognized that it was happening in New Hampshire and about six weeks ago, she came up with a proposal called and it was 10 years, $10 billion. Not enough, not actually getting to the root cause, but it helps her in New Hampshire to say, "I have a solution." But you thought that it was interesting is that you had three candidates there, all with very personal stories that, I don't think we can say that they're using those stories to get ahead, but they are talking about them because, in New Hampshire, say that you're asked about it, or Vermont or Massachusetts, and this a problem that's growing across the country. One of the most important questions in a presidential election is does the candidate care about people like me? Do they understand the problems of people like me, problems that I'm dealing with? And if you have a personal story that you can bring to it, it's not easy to talk about someone that you've lost, especially a loved one, but if you talk about it meaningfully, then you can start to get to something. But this issue -- while it might seem small like 10 years, $10 billion, it's actually on the minds of so many people that it's the first question they're asking. I think that's why it makes sense to be a national topic.

BOLLING: And K.G., Chris Christie comes from a state, New Jersey who also has a massive drug problem. Heroin, takes -- I think on average, besides New Hampshire of the top states takes more people from drug overuse or overdosing on heroin. That's probably why he was doing it. It's just so happens to be a primary state as well.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, it's really unbelievable. It's really become just, like a plague on our society. And in this country, the devastating number of heroin-related deaths, people addicted to it. It's become more, you know, cheaper, more affordable even than cocaine and so this is a big problem. So heroin-related deaths jumped 39 percent from 2012 to 2013 and we see that number continuing to escalate. And some of the recent health studies that, Dana that you've brought up about, you know, people overdosing and dying from this kind of drug addiction. Obviously, it's a very important issue. It should get the attention and I believe that it will. I think right now, though, the economy and some of the other issues are very prevalent in getting a lot of the attention because traditionally, they do. There's a lot of things is wrong, Eric, so they need to be tended to.

BOLLING: True. Kirsten. And again, let's talk about in context of what Dana said. The three of the GOP candidates said some very personal stories. Is this a good time? Is this a good issue to be bringing up now and timing and to be bringing up on the campaign trail?

KIRSTEN POWERS, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah. I think it's a huge issue. And I think it's -- I'm amazed at how many people I personally know, frankly, who, in particular with their children. And that's what's amazing that you have, you know, suburban children who are addicted to meth. You know, who you're thinking what? Like this is not when you -- when I was growing up, this just was not -- I didn't know a single person who was addicted to drugs. So I think it's something that is really a huge problem. There's one thing that just comes to mind, though is why? Why is this happening?

PERINO: Exactly.

POWERS: And I think that's the big question, because if you want to solve the problem, you got to figure out why it's happening.


BOLLING: And they, what they say Tom, for the first time, life expectancies are dropping in the developed country. It's almost unheard of, and it's -- the cause that they point to a drugs, alcohol and suicide, but they're pointing the finger at prescription drug. Yes, it's one of the major factors.

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, you know, and Jeb said, "We're overprescribing." I don't know if I agree with that, I mean that blanket statements. You know, drugs help a lot of people. A lot of people are on a lot of drugs. We all know old people who are on drugs that weren't even invented when we were younger. So there's, there's a lot of good news in the medical world, and like -- Dana, I know you love good news.


SHILLUE: But the death rates across the board are way down from 1969 to 2013, it's a 43 percent. The death rate has, you know, has improved 43 percent. So there's lost good news in the.

BOLLING: America.

SHILLUE: The world of health. We have a great.

PERINO: But what Eric is saying is that -- this is unprecedented.


PERINO: In a developing country, you actually -- in developed country you actually have this back-sliding for what has been a pretty healthy group with a lot of money to be able to take care of their health.

BOLLING: Yeah, and it is focused in on white males ages 45-54. And again, pointing towards a prescription drug abuse in terms of heroin addiction.

PERINO: Can I mention something else about that?


PERINO: OK. So if you have a chance, I know it's another reading assignment, but bear with me. So Ben Domenech at The Federalist wrote a piece today that is really, really good and it gets to something we've talked about in the past. Charles Murray wrote a book a few years ago called Coming Apart. It's a book that haunted me for a while because, if you look at the numbers that you're talking about, the mortality rate, the suicide rate, the addiction rate, the age group, and you look at some of the towns around America that have lost jobs and you have disability insurance.


PERINO: Claims. Now doctors want to help people. So that's -- they go to school and they've -- their calling is to help people. So when someone says to them, "I'm in pain," they want to help them. The problem -- I don't know what the problem is on the drug addiction side of things. Thankfully, I don't have to have that problem, but I know that I could. So one of the things that actually legislation in front of Congress right now that says, "OK well, can we get doctors to be able to prescribe more of a different type of medicine that will help people get off the heroin?" But you do have an additional problem that this problem, Eric, is not just a New Hampshire problem. Like it comes to Vermont, New Hampshire, now upstate New York, Massachusetts, to rural Kentucky. Other places like that, it spreads almost like a virus. And the last thing I would say is a lot of people who end up with addiction, especially suburban parents, who then end up having a child that they have to deal with, they get stigmatized, right? Because you think well, as if a drug addiction is your fault, therefore you don't get the help that you need. So it's a big issue, it will be a big one in New Hampshire and probably across the country.

BOLLING: No, I want to just to focus on one more thing, K.G, what ends up happening now is disability insurance. People are losing their unemployment insurance and they're going on disability. And the study literally points to the fact that people are staying on disability and they can't afford other things, so they go to the hard drugs, they go to the cheap. Heroin, by the way is cheap. Hits of heroin now are $4 a hit.

GUILFOYLE: Well that's the thing is. It's becoming affordable -- right.

BOLLING: Yes. It's becoming affordable.

GUILFOYLE: And so that's what people who are impoverished, they have problems like this. They're going to turn to a drug like that and unfortunately, they're moving in such a dangerous direction because it is so highly addictive, it's very readily available and it's, you know, it's cost-effective for somebody who has a drug addiction or pain problems. It's really problematic, so people turning to that even instead of like prescription drugs that they can't get, a whole of that.

PERINO: Well, also, the other thing that happens is you form shop for prescription drugs. You go around the pharmacy, the pharmacy in fact -- the laws finally catch up with you and they say "You're not -- you caught off, you got -- you can't get anymore." Therefore, you turn to heroin because it's cheaper and it's the easiest way to get it.

BOLLING: Kirsten. Should the government get involved on how much -- to what extent should the government be involved in policing this?

POWERS: Well, I think they should try to figure out what's going on first and foremost.

GUILFOYLE: Climate Change.

POWERS: And the people who did the study said that they didn't really know what was causing it, but did say that they -- clearly, there is a high level of both physical and psychic pain that's being medicated.

PERINO: Right.

POWERS: And so we have to try to understand like, why are people in so much more pain than they were in the past. And I think that we could probably figure it out. I think we could probably come out with some ideas pretty quickly.

BOLLING: Tom, 90 percent of all people who tried heroin for the first time over the last 10 years were white. Surprising?

SHILLUE: No, I don't think it's surprising, but I think I'm suspicious of federal solutions to this. A lot of these things are localized. You have certain drugs in certain areas of the country. So I think, I would not be, you know, do any of us trust the federal government to come up with a solution for America's drug problem? I feel like this is a local issue. Treatment is going to be very big. People are believing more in treatment than enforcement, but I think it's gonna be local, it's gonna be done by the states.

PERINO: So that's -- I don't think they necessarily want the government to get involved in on a day-to-day basis, but they really want federal money.


PERINO: Because they are overwhelmed and they can afford it.


PERINO: At the state level.

BOLLING: We gonna have to leave it there. We have, actually, another topic we didn't get to because I think this is a really important debate to be had. Also, it was important to see these candidates show a different side of themselves. I thought it was compelling to see Chris Christie, Jeb Bush and Carly Fiorina with a real emotional (inaudible) as Dana points out. We're gonna leave it right there.

Ahead, it was for Rush night last night for democrats across the country, we're gonna tell you about the big conservative victories from coast to coast. That's next on The Five.


PERINO: Disagreements run deep among democrats and republicans, but voters on both sides are united in their dissatisfaction with Washington and our political system. A new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows 69 percent of Americans feel angry with a system they say is only working for insiders. President Obama, of course, is dismissing some of the frustration, while Senator Marco Rubio says the president in part to blame.


BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Political season is always a little bit of a silly season. What's different this time is that, particularly, in the Republican Party, you have -- I think the most disgruntled or suspicious of Washington portion of the electorate that is driving the process.

MARCO RUBIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a tremendous amount of frustration about the direction of our country. People are saying -- we got a majority in the Senate and nothing has changed. We're angry. And that's being manifested in these polls. I've argued that one of the things we need from our next president is a sense of urgency about the issues that we've faced.


PERINO: And it was a terrible Tuesday for democrats yesterday. Conservatives across the country scored major victories, one of them in Kentucky where Matt Bevin became only the second republican to be elected governor in four decades. San Francisco, Ross, the sheriff who championed the city's sanctuary policy for illegal immigrants, and then in Ohio, voters overwhelmingly rejected a measure to legalize recreational and medical marijuana. So last night Eric, I was watching on the Twitters, all the results come in and -- very interestingly in Kentucky, pundits alike the polls showed that Matt Bevin was never gonna win and then he trounced them.

BOLLING: Yeah, he did it. Yeah, He surprised a lot of people. He had a rough Senate run, remember that. So his stock was down before he should.

PERINO: But then he was supported by McConnell in this race.

BOLLING: Right. He was. And he's also a Tea Party guy, right, if I'm not mistaken?

PERINO: Initial.

BOLLING: So he --

PERINO: I mean, yes.



BOLLING: So all the, you know, the crosses that they're putting on the Tea Party burial, they've been -- just hold off for a little bit. Can I talk about this San Francisco sheriff?



BOLLING: I think he's only the second time -- a second or third time that a sheriff has ever been, an incumbent sheriff has ever been unseated when he didn't want to be unseated. That's fantastic. I mean, that is -- if that's not a testament that everything that O'Reilly is doing, everything we've been talking about, as far as sanctuary cities. And the problem with sanctuary cities, nothing is. San Francisco, California, you guys should get the message, enough of the sanctuary cities, or the rest of you will be voted out the way the sheriff was.

PERINO: And what do you think about that, Kimberly, from.

GUILFOYLE: I know this guy forever. He is a complete political hack and a joke. He was never even a real sheriff for anything, he ran for office, probably got elected by a few people who are clueless, bye-bye Ross. Yeah.

PERINO: All right. Good.

GUILFOYLE: That's really the truth. That's just really the truth. And everybody in San Francisco knows it. And he got ousted by one of the members of the Hennessy family who actually has law enforcement background.

PERINO: Kirsten, in talking to some people in Kentucky about what was stoking it, so the democrat was running on Obamacare. And said Obamacare is great, everything is going well. Matt Bevin, who won said, "Obviously, it's not going well and I will help you get out of it." Do you think that -- they, they in Kentucky think that Obamacare was the big issue?

POWERS: I mean, I'm no genius, but if I was running a campaign in Kentucky, I don't think Obamacare would be my focus point.

PERINO: Right.

POWERS: I mean, it's not -- separate from the national feeling about Obamacare, that doesn't strike me as place where people are gonna really love President Obama or Obamacare. So I can't see how this would possibly help somebody get elected.

PERINO: How about in Ohio, where they tried to put together for legalization of marijuana. They did medical marijuana and recreational marijuana together, but they tried to do it with a monopoly system and the voters in Ohio, overwhelmingly said, "no way."

SHILLUE: Yeah. I think a lot of people are -- even people who want to move toward a decriminalization, they look at -- they don't want to be on the forefront of it. They don't want to be like Colorado because they see what's going on there and they don't like it. So I think that's what happened there. They don't want to jump in with both feet. But, you know, President Obama -- can I say something about that video?


SHILLUE: It's like -- does anyone believe this above-the-fray attitude that he tries to hold all the time? Oh, its silly season in Washington, you know. And it's like, he --

PERINO: He's so above it all.

SHILLUE: He is -- that's what -- he can still -- he still plays this. I'm above it all and -- but when you look at what he said, it's the same message of, republicans are the ones, you know, driving this. They're the ones -- I could get things done in Washington, if it wasn't for these obstructionists and these republicans. But you know, he is, he -- it's, it's so passive-aggressive because he is the one fighting. You know? He plays above the fray with the, you know, there's no red states and blue states. He was never that way.

PERINO: Right, right, right.


BOLLING: So -- you do it another topic?

PERINO: No. I was going to ask you a question about next year, based on this one.

BOLLING: Well, the question is, does the Ohio vote come back up in any -- or can it come up again any?

PERINO: Well, actually, that was the question I was going to ask you, but in a different way. So I do think that it will probably come up again and I think that they will try in a different way. I think that they will try to strip out the monopoly idea, but they're gonna have to do some analysis to find out what happened in Ohio because the vote was so overwhelmingly against.

BOLLING: Can I suggest, maybe something that might have happened?


BOLLING: You pointed to where it should.


BOLLING: The monopoly idea.


BOLLING: So you're gonna vote for marijuana -- even if you believe that marijuana should be legalized or decriminalized, or whatever. When you say you're going to hand over billions of dollars to 10 different individuals in the state and they're going to make all the money on all.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Basically, all the profits, less the tax on marijuana in state, I mean, I think you're going to eliminate a lot of voters that would normally vote for the legalization of it. Who said, you know what? Why, open it up, make it a free market. Maybe it's a business that I can get into.

PERINO: Because I can be persuaded on the free market standpoint of it. I couldn't be persuaded on that. One last thing I want to make -- last thing I wanted to ask, and we go around quickly, is that -- so it was a great night for republicans, even though the left is try to say anything good is really bad for republicans, but it was overall a good night. That doesn't necessarily mean in 2016 that republicans should rest and think everything is going to be fine because democrats typically, Kimberly, they treat their presidential elections, as my friend Donna Brazile says, "As the world cup and everybody attends and they pay a lot of attention to it." So this is unnecessarily smooth sailing.

GUILFOYLE: You're absolutely right. So the GOP has to get a soccer attitude, right? That's what they need to do. So I don't think they're going to rest on. I think they're energized by this. You see a lot of people that jumped into this presidential, you know, campaign to try to be the one, to be the nominee. They should be encouraged by results like this, but double their resolve so that they can get the good outcome as well.

PERINO: Oh, you know the other thing we didn't mention, Eric?


PERINO: The other thing that we didn't mention is that, there was an attempt to try to get the state Senate in democratic control in Virginia, and that failed. And if I were Hillary Clinton -- kind of like, upset about that a little bit because she needs every advantage she can get in Virginia, if I'm right.

POWERS: Yeah. I think that's right. But I do also think that republicans shouldn't over-interpret this. So I say that the democrats when, you know, they win the House and they think, oh my, gosh, we have a mandate, you know. It's not a mandate.

BOLLING: Oh that little thing?

POWERS: Republicans?


BOLLING: Why do you think the House, but don't.

POWERS: Whether it is republicans or democrats. Well then, two years later, you know everything its flips back and forth. We see all of these.

PERINO: Well, and we could, maybe have an additional conversation in a days ahead about the polling because the polling was all wrong.


PERINO: And maybe all the polls are wrong. And then what are we going to do?

POWERS: What are we going to talk about?

PERINO: Right ahead. Ted Cruz thinks only conservatives should moderate republican debates, what do we think? Stay tuned. We'll tell you.


GUILFOYLE: Has the conservative media revolution forced the liberal media to abandon any pretense of objectivity? That's what Rush Limbaugh declares.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The single greatest consequence of the rise of conservative media has been the destruction of the left-wing media's monopoly. The dissolution of this monopoly is what caused all the partisanship in this country because the media used to be able to hide their bias. They used to be able to hide the fact that they're just hacks for the Democratic Party, but now they can't hide it. They have been exposed.


GUILFOYLE: The bias of the mainstream media went on full display at last week's GOP debate on CNBC. To prevent another repeat, Ted Cruz proposes future republican debates should only be moderated by republicans.


TED CRUZ, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why are republican primary debates moderated by liberal democrats? Right now we have liberal democrats moderate the democrat debates and liberal democrats moderate the republican debates. That doesn't make any sense. I think we ought to have republican primary debates. And we don't want softballs, we just want moderators whose object isn't to try to bloody up every republican and cause Hillary Clinton to win.


GUILFOYLE: Good idea, bad idea, Bolling?

BOLLING: Ted -- I think I said this couple of weeks ago. Did I not say why are you doing this, why are you having C -- NBC moderating a GOP debate. You don't have to do it that way. Reince Priebus, you didn't have to do it that way. You could say no to CNBC, no to NBC and say yes, until it's a general election. And you get to do -- I get that. But here's the thing, what -- where's -- and I said this, where is the DNC? Where's the DC's, where's the democrat debate at Fox? It's just not going to happen because the DNC is not foolish and they're going to say -- they're gonna play in the home court. They have the home field advantage and they're gonna continue to do that.

One other focus, do you realize that the mainstream media, the broadcast network, not only the anchors, but the managers, the TV executives, they're all liberal. You cannot name one conservative who is on air for ABC, NBC, CBS, or running the show at any one of those shops, you can't do it. I challenge you to do it. Let me know if you can.

GUILFOYLE: We have to get back to you on that. (inaudible), I'm not sure what the results of it will be.

BOLLING: But exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Right, exactly. Dana, what do you think of this idea?

PERINO: Well, Ted's idea or Rush's idea? Because I think.

GUILFOYLE: Ted and Rush.

PERINO: I like to comment on both, that would be -- I like that. So when Rush Limbaugh was talking about what has happened with the liberal media in terms of the mainstream media that was exposed and that was, I mean -- we actually don't have to pretend any more. Interesting to hear him say it that way because having that worked in it for so many years, you just sort of factor it in and then you get used to it. And I remember, I think it was Billy Crystal one time, when I was frustrated in the green room at Fox in D.C. who said, "Dana, you're just going to have to get over it because this is the way of the world." And I think that it was right is that how can I continue to be a cheerful person and do my job if i didn't sort of accept it, and then still -- and still try to win. You know, factor and win, but I think that he's right that -- you know, I remember when reporters started writing front page analysis pieces in The New York Times and the Washington Post. And as a press secretary, I would say, well -- so are you the reporter calling me today or the analyst calling me today?" And the truth is, there really was no difference. So I think that that has been exposed, and that's a good thing.

When it comes to Ted Cruz's idea, one, I feel like you have to practice like you play. OK? So I think that Republicans are better. You have to convince a lot more people. And you can do it in a lot of different ways. You don't have to pick and choose.

But on the conservative side of things, with everything so fractured, who's going to qualify? Who will be acceptable to one Republican, will be acceptable to another Republican? And then there will be more of a massive food fight about it. I don't think it's workable.

GUILFOYLE: Do you like the idea for entertainment sports?

SHILLUE: Yes. And I think Cruz, it would play to his strengths. Because the base loves Cruz, and so he would love a debate that is moderated by the base.

Rush Limbaugh, God bless him, he's so right. And this article in the National Review this week is fantastic.

And I think that, you know, it was always a myth. I think that's pretty much what you just said, right? It was always the myth of the objective journalists. All my liberal friends all say, you know, "I like the day when we would sit down to Walter Cronkite and have objective journalism."

And I'd say, "Walter Cronkite was always liberal." All of them were always liberal. Now it's out of the closet. It's out in the open, and so they've been exposed. So that's why: you know, they wear their politics more on their sleeve, because we all know it now. And I think it's a good thing. Because it was always a myth.

POWERS: Well, I think the reason that liberals think that they're not liberals because they think that what they believe is just reality. So when they turn on the TV, and they hear reality being spoken, they're like, "Good. This is an objective person," right? You know, you just think that this must be true.

And so what I found was interesting in what Rush wrote, there was a couple of things in it that I should have known about, but I didn't know about. He talks about how in 1993, he says while aboard Air Force One, President Clinton called my St. Louis affiliate to complain that I had three hours each day on the radio and that there was no truth detector responding to me.

At another point Harry Reid called Clear Channel and basically complained about him and wanted them to do something about things that Rush Limbaugh was saying.

This is a heavy-handed behavior from the government. And it shows how not -- they already, I mean -- I'm liberal, and I can see that they're liberal. But that's not just the only problem. The problem is, is that they don't even want there to be one Rush Limbaugh.

PERINO: You wrote a book about this.

POWERS: Right. I mean, it's not even -- it's not enough that they're already in control of everything. It's like they literally can't tolerate this one person, you know, who's sitting out there. It's like -- it's like really? Could you just -- turn the radio off?

PERINO: It's funny. It's funny kind of to watch President Obama make fun of Republicans complaining about this.

POWERS: Right.

PERINO: Because who has complained about FOX News and conservative media...

GUILFOYLE: Every chance they get.

PERINO: Every step.

POWERS: And it's not legitimate.

BOLLING: And who never would come on FOX. And comes on FOX News, what, maybe four times or five times in his whole presidency, in the whole time?

PERINO: And we should be grateful.


GUILFOYLE: And Bolling, for a little bit more on Rush, the man, not the band, talking about the Republican Party, despite the defeats last night the liberals, Republicans still willing to work with the president. Take a listen.


LIMBAUGH: The Republican Party is still more inclined to work with Barack Obama and move his agenda forward. Be it amnesty. Be it the export/import bank. Be it climate change, whatever it happens to be. Despite this resounding defeat for Obama and the Democrats and liberalism last night.


GUILFOYLE: All right. What do you make of it? Is he right?

BOLLING: Well, he's taking a shot, obviously, at some of the policy that the Republicans who control the House and the Senate are letting get through and hit the president's desk. And not get vetoed second time around or not get overruled a second time around.

I see what he's doing. He's just -- he's -- Rush Limbaugh is staking out the conservative red-meat thread...


BOLLING: ... and he's doing a great job of it.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana.

PERINO: Well, I mean, I think that there are going to be people that will say climate change, they look at the signs and think, "OK, look, we want a cleaner environment, too, so we should do things that are smart. We should not kill our coal industry over it today, for example." And this goes to his point, which is you constantly find out other things.

For example, China it turns out, for last several years, has been lying about its output of carbon emissions, and they're actually way up over and above what they had actually reported. So next week, I think, President Obama goes to Paris to have this consultation about a big climate change summit, and it's based on lies. And I think that's what Rush is saying, why do the Republicans keep falling into this trap?

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're saying the Republicans are, like, co-dependent. They become enablers, and they betray their core conservative principles, and are selling out to the president. I think that sums it up.


SHILLUE: The other myth: that the America voter wants people to reach across aisle. They don't. They want people to do what they want.

GUILFOYLE: Stand your ground. All right. Kirsten, anything?

POWERS: I just don't -- yes, I don't see the Republican Party quite the same way Rush Limbaugh does.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. More on that later. When we're in commercial break.

All right. Next, new developments on the crash of a Russian plane in Egypt. Did a bomb bring do down that jet? Catherine Herridge joins us from Washington, coming up.


POWERS: ISIS has again claimed responsibility for last weekend's Russian plane crash in Egypt. And although the investigation is still ongoing, sources tell FOX News, evidence does point to an explosion on the jet. That's what the British government fears, as well, and it's suspended flights to and from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula.

Let's bring in chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge for more.

Hi, Catherine. There's been a lot of developments this afternoon. Can you bring us up to speed?


So I spoke to two separate sources this afternoon, and they said, based on the intelligence so far, it indicates an explosion on board that jet. The likely scenario is that a bomb was planted on the aircraft, and investigators are very focused on this ISIS affiliate in Sinai, as well as ISIS sympathizers.

And within the last half hour, the Associated Press is reporting out of London, and we're working to confirm it independently. That there are also intercepts. These are communication that are picked up by the intelligence community between known terrorist operatives, in this case ISIS. And these intercepts further reinforce this idea that a bomb was planted on the aircraft, and that's what brought it down.

But I would also add tonight a note of caution. Because what I heard consistently throughout the day is that this is a highly fluid situation and the black box has been damaged and not fully analyzed. So no firm conclusions have been reached, Kirsten.

POWERS: ISIS has said that they did this, but they're not going to say how they did it; and it's up to other people to figure that out. Is that a typical response, or does that raise suspicion that maybe they're making it up?

HERRIDGE: Well, that's a great question. The track record with ISIS thus far is very much like al Qaeda post-9/11, which is that they don't typically take credit for a successful terrorist attack that they were not responsible for.

What's key about these ISIS messages is that there have been two from what are called intelligence circles, leadership accounts. These are the kind of accounts that the intelligence community is familiar with. And they often have very credible information. So it's not just some ISIS guy saying, "We did this." This is considered a credible source.

And they have come back again today with a second claim. And now we're anticipating, perhaps as early as this evening, a statement from the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, though it's not clear whether it's in any way connected.

BOLLING: Catherine, I noticed earlier we had booked Connor Powell. He's our Mideast foreign correspondent. It switched over to you at some point. So I'm think, well, this seems to be expanding.

Note that this was a plane traveling to Russia.

HERRIDGE: Correct.

BOLLING: Russia has recently stated they're attacking ISIS. Is that relevant? And does that lend credibility to their claim that they took the plane down?

HERRIDGE: Well, I'm glad you raised that, because one of the sort of background pieces of information is that ISIS has indicated very publicly on social media that they're going to exact revenge on the Russians for entering into this conflict in Syria against the crusaders, which would be the United States. So that's sort of an intelligence data point that cannot be ignored.

And again, the claims coming from these two ISIS accounts. But I would also sort of draw your attention to the obvious. Based on my experience working in this area now for 14 years, when you have the British government come out in an on-the-record statement from Downing Street, that's their equivalent of the White House saying that, based on the current evidence -- and I have a new statement here right now, from that office. That based on the evidence, there's a significant possibility that an explosive device brought down that jet. And they are backing that up with further action. They are saying you should not go to the Sinai unless it's essential travel. That tells you that there really is something here, Eric.

PERINO: All right. Hi, Catherine, it's Dana. A couple of questions, because I wonder about Russian domestic politics. A lot of people thought that when Putin decided to go and fight in Syria, he said he was going to go fight is, but he didn't. He was actually hitting Free Syrian Army, and people who want to actually get Assad out. So he's helping Assad.

So now ISIS is actually being accused of attacking a Russian plane when Russia isn't even going after ISIS. So how does Putin deal with this, with his domestic political problems back home?

HERRIDGE: Well, I would argue that Vladimir Putin has a real vested interest in the outcome here. Not only with his relationship with Assad. But also that he sees the jihadist threat in that part of the world as an existential threat to his own government because of the jihadist problem that he has in the Caucus [SIC] region. So this is a very personal issue for his administration.

I think the thing to watch here is how forthcoming they are about the evidence they have. So far they've said they have not found explosive residue, which would be more consistent with an explosive device. And if they do find that kind of evidence, whether they take some kind of retaliatory action against ISIS, if they were, in fact, behind a device on that airplane.

But again, investigators are very focused on ISIS; and they're also very focused on that airport and who had access to the aircraft in Sharm el- Sheikh.

SHILLUE: Catherine, Tom Shillue.

HERRIDGE: Hi there.

SHILLUE: When I was -- I was researching this before we went to air, and it seems like there was a lot of reports talking about conventional explosives and saying that it was probably something stored in the luggage or brought on board, instead of -- does that mean instead of a suicide bomb. Or is that where they're leaning?

HERRIDGE: I'm glad you raised that. That -- there are really kind of two M.O.s, if this was, in fact, a bomb. One would be an individual, like a mule, carrying it onto the aircraft. The -- I would say the easier, more simplistic approach would be to place it in the luggage.

And again, the data today, to stick with the reporting, is that investigators are focused on the employees at the airport who had access to the plane, who had access to the departure terminal.

And we've got these intercepts, known ISIS operatives, communicating with each other in advance of that plane going down. And that is seen as further evidence to support this leading scenario now that ISIS put a bomb on that plane, and that is what downed the jet.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Catherine, some of the intelligence reports that are coming in, that none of the passengers or crew on board were in any of the American terrorist databases.

HERRIDGE: Correct.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So that also leads credence to the theory that perhaps it was something that was put on by the cleaning crew or someone that had access to the departure hall, versus someone being a mule going on to, you know, commit jihad and blow themselves up.

HERRIDGE: I know you follow this really closely, Kimberly. And you know that, in order to carry a device onto an aircraft, that is a much more sophisticated scenario. Because you have to perfect the detonator.


HERRIDGE: And you have to conceal it in a way. And the security in Sharm el-Sheikh is not insignificant.

The easier scenario is to place a device with a timer, either with a cell phone or a traditional timer, and to put it in the luggage. I don't want to get too sort of far over the tips of our skis here...


HERRIDGE: ... but certainly, that is what it would point to.

GUILFOYLE: All right, excellent. Thank you.

POWERS: All right. Thanks, Catherine.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

POWERS: Great report.

And up ahead, would kids do better in school if they had a money incentive to get their grades up? Next.


SHILLUE: Some parents reward their children when they get good grades. Now one school is giving it a try. A high school in Michigan is offering students $200 per semester if they get their grades up.

Kids who already have a 4.0 can earn money by setting different goals, like organizing an event or taking a college entrance exam. The student with the highest percentage increase in their GPA will receive a one-year scholarship to a local college.

Look, I'm going to just go out on a limb and guess that no one is in favor of this. Am I right? Is anyone in favor of paying for grades? You are?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, why not. Sure.

SHILLUE: Bolling?

BOLLING: Absolutely do it.

PERINO: You have the government do it?

BOLLING: No, I do it.

PERINO: You do it. This is the school doing it. This is taxpayer money doing it.

BOLLING: I'll tell you why that -- not works if the school does it, because kids will sandbag it. They'll go lowball, bad GPA, come back with a better GPA.

GUILFOYLE: If they -- if they're smart, they'll figure that out.

SHILLUE: They'll cheat. They'll cheat, right?

BOLLING: I don't support feds doing it. I support parents doing it.

GUILFOYLE: The call of the question was broader.

SHILLUE: ... get paid for grades? Did you get paid for your grades, Bolling?


SHILLUE: Ha! See? Anybody here get paid for their grades? I doubt it. So why is it -- why...

POWERS: I actually was told in fifth grade that if I got straight A's, I would get a candy bar.

PERINO: A candy bar?

POWERS: Yes, exactly. And I got straight "A's." And I...

PERINO: What did you choose? Snickers?

POWERS: I think I got a Milky Way.


PERINO: Should have gone for a 100 Grand.

SHILLUE: Easy to please.

GUILFOYLE: I didn't need to be motivated. It was, like, impossible not to get straight "A's." It's like I'd have to...

BOLLING: Over a 4.0 now?

GUILFOYLE: I have, I have.

BOLLING: But some schools are actually looking -- colleges are looking for high school kids. And I know this, because it's ticking me off, who want over a 4.0. Think about that for a second.

GUILFOYLE: You can get that now, too. And A.P. courses. You get the extra -- yes.

BOLLING: Perfect grades in honors courses. A.P., right.

PERINO: Everybody around the -- every other child around the world would love the privilege to come to America, just for the chance to learn. We should not have to pay our children.

SHILLUE: We shouldn't have to pay them. I know. I say it's got to be fear. I wasn't -- I wouldn't reward -- you know, I wasn't rewarded for good grades; I was afraid of getting bad grades.

BOLLING: With your daughters -- with your daughters?


BOLLING: And you're going to rule by the stick, not the carrot?

SHILLUE: I wish they were more scared of me. I'm -- I mean, I'm working on it.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody wants the carrot.

POWERS: It's not just the fear. It's -- you know, I played sports in high school. And if you didn't have a certain GPA, you would be taken off the team.

SHILLUE: That's right. That's a better motivator.

POWERS: You didn't want to be benched; you wanted to be at the game. So you made sure you got good grades.

SHILLUE: I'm -- I'm for negative reinforcement instead of positive. OK, "One More Thing" is up next.


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." K.G. you're up first.

GUILFOYLE: So you know I love the military men. And especially the naval academies. We're going to give a little attention to them today.

The U.S. Naval Academy is the place, apparently, for the nation's brightest, most amazing and funkiest. You didn't know that. Here's a new viral video, showing a group of guys from the naval academy, midshipmen, and they're doing a little shimmying, a little strutting to "Uptown Funk." Take a look.




GUILFOYLE: An officer and a gentleman, right?

PERINO: That will be good for recruiting.

GUILFOYLE: I think so.

PERINO: All right. So you know, Kimberly gets to do food segments. I usually do book segments. So bear with me on this one, because we have another new book to talk about.

James Rosen, a colleague of ours at FOX News, he's a really terrific writer, and he's written a new book. It just came out this week. It's called "Cheney, One-on-One," a candid conversation between him and Vice President Cheney. He asked him all sorts of things, including going way back not just to his work as vice president, but earlier times in his life, as well. It's a really good book. I'd recommend it.

And I want to just tell you something nice and fun. You don't see kindness in New York. You think you don't, but you do. Today there's a guy at the park, and he took this picture of Jasper. And then he tracked down Peter in order to make sure that he sent it to us.

GUILFOYLE: Beautiful.

PERINO: And so it's Jasper hunting for his fish. I just thought that was so nice, that he chased Peter down to make sure he could send him the picture.

GUILFOYLE: It's called stalking.

BOLLING: Very nice.

PERINO: I think it was nice.

GUILFOYLE: Jasper has a stalker.

BOLLING: All right. Got to move it along. Tommy, you're up.

SHILLUE: Yes. The other night on "Red Eye," TV's Andy levy tried to question my knowledge of hip-hop dance moves. Take a look.


ANDY LEVY: How do you know what a good stanky leg is?

SHILLUE: I just know. I've acquired some mad dance skills.

LEVY: I came across this. Can we roll that, please?



WILLIAMS: You know -- you got to put your hips in it.

Now you're getting it.

SHILLUE: There we go.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

PERINO: That's amazing.

BOLLING: How did you learn your stanky leg? From Juan, right?

PERINO: K.G. -- K.G., they wanted you to do it, but you were not here yet, so we made Juan do it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, that might not have been helpful.

PERINO: You would have been not so helpful?

GUILFOYLE: Might not have made air.

BOLLING: What's that thing called?

SHILLUE: Stanky leg, side to side.

BOLLING: No, the thing that you were doing.

All right.

GUILFOYLE: Very long-limbed.

BOLLING: If you didn't know by now, "Saturday Night Live" musical guest this week is going to be Sia, you know, "Chandelier," and guess who's hosting? Well, here's the first promos.


CECILY STRONG, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Donald Trump is hosting "Saturday Night Live" this week with musical guest Sia, and because of equal time rules for television, Mr. Trump can only speak for four seconds in this promo.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So let me just say this: Ben Carson is a complete and total loser.

STRONG: He said I could be his running mate.


TRUMP: I'm just shopping around.


BOLLING: All right. You're not going to miss that one.

All right, Kirsten, you're up.

PERINO: That's so mean to Ben Carson, my gosh.

BOLLING: All right. Hold back.

POWERS: So let's get something happy now.

GUILFOYLE: What is going on?

POWERS: A couple of weeks ago I told everybody that I converted to Catholicism. So we thought it would be fun to show you a couple of pictures. This is me getting baptized. This is Father Landry, a wonderful priest who -- here we are at the dinner afterwards, where we had lots of wine, like all good Catholics, to celebrate my conversion.

PERINO: Congratulations.

GUILFOYLE: We're very happy to have you. Welcome.

BOLLING: Welcome to the tribe.

That's it for us. "Special Report" coming up right now.

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