Administration stands by accusations of Israeli terror
Israel's prime minister warns the world not to confuse his country's victims with their attackers
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 15, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Israel is on high alert and fighting back against Palestinians after a string of new attacks. Instead of standing by our closest ally in the Middle East, the Obama administration is accusing Israel of terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I would say that in -- certainly individuals on both sides of this divide are -- have proven capable of and in our view, guilty of acts of terror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: State Department Spokesman John Kirby stood by that remark today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRBY: I think I will just reiterate of what we said before and we'll continue to stress it. That the violence needs to stop, there's no excuse for intentional killing of innocent people for the use of terror as a tactic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And always well-coordinated, so did the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The United States mourns any loss of innocent life, whether it's Israeli or it's Palestinian. It is our view that both sides have a responsibility to exercise restraint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Earlier, Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused the Palestinians of spreading lies about the violence and warned the world not to confuse his country's victims with their attackers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER: We expect all our friends and anyone concerned with the facts and the truth to look at these facts, to see the truth and not to draw false symmetry between Israeli citizens, and those who would stab them and knife them to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right, we'll take it on the table. Eric, I think that Netanyahu showed a little bit of restraint there because people are being attacked, and yes, there has been violence in attacks against Israelis. If an Israeli then defends themselves or defends another Israeli by attacking that attacker, I would say that that is not terrorism. That is self-defense or defending themselves.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: And that is this few attacks over the last few days. Over the history of the last 25 years, the Israelis, they're not the -- they're the ones that are getting the missiles shot at them and they go back and they take out the places that the missiles were being shot from. These attacks now we know, if you watch the videos, they're -- Palestinian drives up to the bus stop, takes the bus stop out, hits somebody, hacks away at that person, hacks away at another person, an Israeli comes up and shoots him and now this guy is being called the terrorist? I don't know why, there are only close ally in the Middle East. We should be embracing that friendship, that alliance instead of calling them out. Notice Israelis response, not only Netanyahu, but Ron Dormer, the other -- the deputy Knesset member, they're very hesitant to call out President Obama specifically. Even though things have gotten worse under President Obama, they still say United States is our friend. We have a great alliance with the United States. It's not their fault. We just need to call attention to what's really going on.
PERINO: In the last couple of days, Greg you've been noticing and commenting on the media coverage.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It's amazing. They don't call it terror, they call it tension. And whenever there's any defense that is called a heavy-handed tactic. So when a man comes with -- at you with a knife and you shoot them that is a heavy-handed tactic. And then, we have to remind everybody, these are coordinated knife attack by Palestinian young men to foment a war. It reminds me of zombie movies when -- like Dawn of the Dead, when all of a sudden out of nowhere, some crazy maniac comes at you and stabs you or kills you. This is actually what Israel is experiencing every day. And what -- the media does is they equate both sides as creating violence. That's like a man who would push a woman in front of a bus. It's the same as the man who rescues her. Just because they happen to be there at the same time. It's absolutely disgusting. And watching -- I was at the gym watching on MSNBC and I was -- they must have thought I was crazy because I'm yelling at the TV like, you know, a 75- year-old man and it's -- it leaves you speechless, the media should be ashamed of themselves.
PERINO: Juan, when the administration doesn't distinguish between the youth attacking Israelis and then the Israelis responding, if they equate that, I mean, doesn't that incite more of the terrorist acts by the Palestinian youth?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I hope not because I think that you have a situation here where it requires some historical context, which is, of course, that we're talking about Jerusalem and about the Israeli assertion that that's their capital, including east Jerusalem. Which is nobody acknowledges this but -- and then you have, not Greg, somehow a coordinated effort by, you know, some Palestinian terror group, but individuals. I think everybody agrees these are individual kids acting out.
GUTFELD: Coordinated.
WILLIAMS: I don't know that it's coordinated. I think the kids.
GUTFELD: It's coordinated.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Do you think it's just coincidence that there are all of these knife attacks?
WILLIAMS: No. What Dana said is true, our social media.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: As opposed to a terrorist group.
GUTFELD: Right.
WILLIAMS: Which is what we had in previous intifadas, right? So that's not what's on the table. And then you have the Israelis using the military, not police sources, but the military in response. It's not some guy who says, I saw someone stab somebody on the bus and I responded. It's now the Israeli.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: It's what Eric is talking about really happened.
BOLLING: Yeah.
GUTFELD: I watched the film.
BOLLING: Yeah, we watched the film.
GUTFELD: We watched it. A car drove into a bus stop with elderly people, ran them over, he got out he stabbed them and thank God some guy comes out of nowhere with a gun and shoots him.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BOLLING: And then the guy gets -- the Palestinian gets up.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: Starts grabbing, swinging the knife again.
WILLIAMS: But nobody -- this is true.
BOLLING: This big, Juan. He gets shot a third and a fourth time.
WILLIAMS: You were -- you're telling the truth, but you're ignoring the part about the Israeli military.
BOLLING: But what's -- Juan, so what's the military stopping coordinated attacks?
GUTFELD: How dare they do their job?
WILLIAMS: No.
BOLLING: What's wrong with that?
WILLIAMS: I'm just saying you have.
BOLLING: What's wrong with that?
WILLIAMS: Because I think for most of the world they say wait a second, this is the Israeli military, not even the police force.
PERINO: But you don't think -- but you think this is like random acts of violence? I mean, it's actually.
WILLIAMS: No, I disagree with you.
PERINO: Let see, what Greg is describing, Kimberly, is what terror -- the definition of terrorism. So trying to attack and kill innocent people to achieve a political aim. That's the definition of a terrorist attack. So why wouldn't the military fight back on the terrorist attack? I don't.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well right. They would be remiss if they didn't. They would be shirking their obligations and their duties if they didn't do that. I don't understand why Israel has to sit there and lay down and take it and become, you know, victims of terrorism. They have every right to defend themselves and to stand up against it. With whatever force they need to use, to shut it down. Because if they see that that's a weak target and people can go in and do this and everybody wants to gang up on Israel, blame U.S., blame Israel as the bad guys in this, I don't play that game.
WILLIAMS: I think if it's love of Israel, it's nobody -- and United States is the number one ally of Israel, OK?
GUILFOYLE: But you wouldn't know.
WILLIAMS: And I don't think that.
GUILFOYLE: From the rhetoric and the lack of diplomacy towards Israel by this administration. That's a problem.
WILLIAMS: On the contrary, I think the Iran deal, I think everything has been aimed to try and solidify Israel's standing.
GUILFOYLE: You do realize that Bibi Netanyahu is like the calling out the president.
WILLIAMS: That's Netanyahu.
GUILFOYLE: The administration who's been going.
WILLIAMS: That's Netanyahu's failure as a leader with a lack of vision.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh. I don't get it.
WILLIAMS: But I'm saying, you got to understand and.
BOLLING: Wait, wait.
WILLIAMS: And this is what's coming -- hold on.
BOLLING: You're not suggesting the Israeli people are in favor of the Iran -- U.S.-Iran deal.
GUILFOYLE: That's what he said.
WILLIAMS: No, I said Netanyahu.
BOLLING: But Netanyahu is.
WILLIAMS: Netanyahu.
BOLLING: Is talking to them?
WILLIAMS: I think Netanyahu has done a bad job of leadership.
BOLLING: And he's representing the Israeli.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BOLLING: Almost across the board.
GUILFOYLE: And the people's interest.
WILLIAMS: OK, OK, let me just say, this.
GUILFOYLE: That's like Juan thinks like we hooked up Israel by getting in bed with, you know, Iran and doing this deal.
WILLIAMS: How about we protect and say no to Iran getting a nuke, and Iran saying they wanted to remove Israel from the earth.
GUILFOYLE: Dream on in the land of unicorns, Juan.
WILLIAMS: But I'm just saying -- I'm just saying right now, everybody is talking about a two-state solution and that's why I think you hear the administration saying, "Hey, slow down. Everybody slow down." This is -- this could cycle out of control and everybody suddenly find.
PERINO: Well, I agree.
WILLIAMS: That we're in trouble.
PERINO: I agree with that and I think that's why Netanyahu today actually was trying to be very calm about it, but you do have a problem when the secretary of state with declining influence in the Middle East says, "I'm going to go and try to fix it." But he has actually the one who said that it was because of an increasing number of settlements. And actually, it was even a bigger quote than that like more than ever. Well Elliott Abrams who has been in Israeli-U.S. domestic politics for a long time, actually points out, it's not true, like less elements under Netanyahu than previous ones. So it's dangerous rhetoric like that. That's careless. I think that feeds into it.
GUTFELD: Where is the call for knife control by Piers Morgan and Barack Obama? Where is that?
BOLLING: You know what the interesting thing, though, Juan is, is if it is the Israeli military who are thwarting these terror attacks, wow, great, they've declared a war on terror. We can't even say we have terrorists here. We.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I would prefer their tactics over what we're doing, pretending it doesn't exist.
WILLIAMS: I don't think anybody is denying what's going on. I think that's the difference. Everybody at this table, I think in the world sees that you have these Palestinian kids.
BOLLING: Workplace violence.
WILLIAMS: Let me finish.
BOLLING: Workplace violence when 13 or 14, depending on your view of the pregnant person being killed, that was declared workplace violence.
GUTFELD: This will be called road rage.
WILLIAMS: OK, let me just say.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: All right, back to my point. Nobody in the world is denying that you've had these Palestinian kids perpetrating acts of violence.
GUTFELD: Will you stop calling them kids?
WILLIAMS: Or teenagers. What do you want me to call them?
GUTFELD: Young adults.
WILLIAMS: OK, young adults.
GUTFELD: With knives.
BOLLING: Young terrorists.
WILLIAMS: All right, OK. Whatever you want to call them, all right? Let's not play games. So they're perpetrating acts of violence against Israelis. Now, you're thinking is oh yeah, bring in the military and the biggest armaments and that will stop them? Answer, no.
BOLLING: How about bring anything?
WILLIAMS: It's a lot of social media. And these kids are angry at the fact that the Israelis have come in and taking control of the.
GUILFOYLE: You can hit the problem from other directions, Juan, but you're naive to think that you can't respond and should not respond with force and strong measure to shut it down.
WILLIAMS: I just don't think.
GUILFOYLE: They can go ahead and do their PR campaigns or social media, but you shouldn't sit there and.
WILLIAMS: I wish to stop it.
GUILFOYLE: See them get slaughtered like a lamb.
WILLIAMS: And nobody is asking about you get stop. I just want it to stop and I don't think that tremendous overwhelming show of force is what's going to somehow dissuade this kid that he can achieve martyrdom by a knife attack.
PERINO: I would send that more.
GUTFELD: Yeah, I mean the thing is -- it is incremental progress when you kill somebody with a knife, which progress I'm willing to take. If that person has a knife, I would want my people to have a gun.
PERINO: Can I do one more topic just because we have two minutes.
GUTFELD: No, I've had enough, I'm out of here.
PERINO: OK, please? All right, James Comey, he is the FBI director. He had a warning about ISIS here in America.
(LAUGHTER)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: That group is using social media to try to motivate people. Either come to their so-called caliphate, or if you can't come, kill where you are. The terrorist is buzzing in the pocket of a troubled soul, 24 hours a day through Twitter. And we have investigations in all 50 states to try to identify among hundreds of people who are consuming this poison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So Kimberly, how does the FBI -- another law enforcement coordinate to keep up with that?
GUILFOYLE: Well yeah, I think it's very difficult, but I do feel confident that he understands the nature and extent of the problem. That it is something that we have to deal with cyber terrorism, the use of social media. A very active network to recruit young people that are feeling disenfranchised and disenchanted with the way government is or trying to join up with the cause to try to become one with something so there is that we have that same problem in the United States with gangs that we see in impoverished neighborhoods or areas, communities that struggle, socioeconomically. So you have to be able to find some kind of measure to draw those people in because they're there for the taking. Whose side are you going to let them play for?
PERINO: I think all of the presidential candidates there should have to answer what their counterinsurgency plan is against the digital media war that we're engaged in.
BOLLING: And I would hope that they will all say, like we've said right here over the two years. I think last year, Comey made that same statement.
PERINO: But he said there were open investigations in all 50 states.
BOLLING: Open investigation is all 50 states, so he really -- look, they're on it and that's the good news. And anyone that thinks they should back off any sort of spending on Intel is out of their mind. You need to press the Intel number. Give them all the resources they need. I just don't know what the answer is. I don't know that you know, clearly, ISIS is big and growing and becoming a bigger threat and more and more young people are disillusion are jumping into the fray for some reason. I don't.
PERINO: I just.
BOLLING: I have no clue with -- how do you solve that problem?
PERINO: Well, I think there's an upcoming article in Foreign Affairs magazine by Jared Cohen from Google ideas, who has done a lot of this work, and one of the things he says is that ISIS actually has this hierarchy where they're all fix (ph) -- there's like a small number of people, guys, that work on the social media piece and then they have fake accounts, but they go into real accounts and so they're protected, but if there's some way that social media, such as Twitter can find out to cut that head off, then we will maybe.
WILLIAMS: Can I just mention one thing here, with that came as a surprise to me was FBI also said today, number one source of terrorist attacks in the United States is not ISIS, but it's domestic terrorism and mostly from white supremacist groups.
GUTFELD: And they're wrong.
WILLIAMS: Oh, they're wrong?
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Why is that Greg?
GUTFELD: The amazing thing about this whole event is everybody blames George Bush for this instability that is created ISIS. They're wrong. Because it was actually way, it was more stable back then, seven years later, Captain Cumulus, who coined Kimberly's phrase.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: Has screwed Iraq, Libya, Syria, and allowed ISIS to thrive. Under Obama, the Middle East has become the middle beast. It's his game. And he's losing it.
PERINO: And we didn't get to the third topic, which I -- for which I apologize, it was Afghanistan and the president switching his position yet again, there's more coming up on that on Special Report.
All right, coming up, Hillary Clinton wants everyone to stop pestering her about her e-mails and one former government employee has something to say about that. He says, his life was ruined for leaking unclassified material and you're going to hear from him, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton has been mocking the FBI's investigation of her e-mails every chance she gets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight, I want to talk not about my e-mails, but about what the American people want from the next president of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, D-VT., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The secretary is right. And that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e- mails.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Thank you. Me, too, me, too.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Today, a former NSA official and others spoke at the National Press Club about how their lives were ruined for cases far less compromising than Clinton's. They were aggressively prosecuted under the Espionage Act for sharing information. Some of which was not classified to expose alleged government misconduct. Thomas Drake thinks there's a double standard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS DRAKE, FORMER SENIOR NSA EXECUTIVE: This is the secretary of state, one of the most targeted individuals by other intelligence agencies and entities in the world, using a private server to traffic a highly sensitive information, and no doubt, including classified information, and no doubt, information including sources and methods. But hey, I'm secretary of state, even Obama gave her cover.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And no doubt, a double standard, Dana.
PERINO: I'm glad that somebody is finally coming out and saying this. I mean the government employees are under very strict instructions in order to get a top-secret clearance. Her judgment is, is so bad, I would imagine it would be pretty easy for the Justice Department to put together a case because you do have individuals like Thomas, who have lost their careers, their livelihoods and have had to deal with the fact that now they have a record, right? How you know how hard it is to get a good job when you have a record like that? So I think that it is good that they have finally come out because there's surely, more people like for example the marine that Greg mentioned, who is being discharged, dishonorably discharged for sending an e-mail on a private server because he was trying to warn people to get out of the way of a coming terrorist attack.
GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable, yeah.
PERINO: The other thing that came out today was in her e-mails, it turns out that her e-mail server was so poor that often didn't work. And so her staff couldn't send her e-mails so she would send State Department business from her personal e-mail account to their personal e-mail accounts, that came out today from the AP.
GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable. I mean you just can't -- it's so glaring, you know the contrast of what's happening with her account. Other people were treated, you know, Petraeus and others. Bolling, what's the justification and why shouldn't the media care about it and keep talking about it?
BOLLING: We should.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
BOLLING: I take -- I push back on one thing that that gentleman said. He said even President Obama provided cover for Hillary Clinton, he didn't. In that 60 Minutes interview, he kind of threw her under the bus. He kind of said, we never condoned doing what he did with your e-mail server, it was a mistake. He apologized and we should maybe move on, but he definitely brought more light, shed more light on it.
WILLIAMS: I say -- he said there was no national security issue.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: We don't really know yet.
PERINO: But then I have to say that he walked that back the next day.
BOLLING: We don't really know. Here are a couple of quick thoughts. Bernie Sanders gave Hillary Clinton cover. He is the only one who did. Now there's a subplot going on that the day after the debate, Mark Helprin reported that Bernie Sanders was supposed to be eviscerating Hillary Clinton for the e-mails when he delivered the line, but he delivered it improperly, so it looked like he was giving her cover. The Sanders campaign has since pushed back on that, so that's a little subplot going on, but here's the big thing, 30,000 e-mails were scrubbed by Hillary Clinton, right? I would love, love to know if someone could get their hands on those 30,000 somehow. They've got to be somewhere, right?
GUILFOYLE: I mean we have.
BOLLING: They got to be.
PERINO: How president.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
PERINO: You know in China.
BOLLING: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: I'm sure they have them, for sure. Start there. Good start -- yeah, for your shopping. Juan?
WILLIAMS: Well, there's no evidence there was any breach. I mean, if there was, boy, would we have something to talk about at this table, and so.
PERINO: How could they not?
GUTFELD: But you have against.
WILLIAMS: Yes, there was.
GUTFELD: This table, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I'm OK.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: This table is.
WILLIAMS: Well there is.
GUTFELD: This table that.
WILLIAMS: Let me say.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: This table is a little bit -- this table a little tilted. A little tilted.
GUTFELD: It's balanced.
WILLIAMS: So it's a very special table, Gregory. And I just think when you look at what's going on here, the problem is for this table, Gregory, that the democrats don't give a hoot and a holler about this issue.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Disappointed.
GUTFELD: It's their guy.
WILLIAMS: Disappointed.
GUTFELD: You know what you actually spoke the truth.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
GUTFELD: You meant to say media, but you said democrats because of the same thing.
WILLIAMS: I said that.
GUTFELD: The media laughs. The media laughs.
WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: The New York Times is all over her.
GUTFELD: With the exempt, I'm talking about during the debate. When you heard the laughter among the media, that's why the debate was a sham because they had the opportunity to question her on the fact that she put the country at risk and they didn't. I trust her with national security like I would trust Michael Moore with my dessert. She has no business being in the oval office. She has no business being in any kind of control. She - - what she did to this country was dangerous and, the fact that they paint accountability as somehow an attack? So that means you can never investigate anything. Why investigate anything?
WILLIAMS: What do you mean?
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, when she will going to attack?
GUTFELD: We can't investigate her because it's a witch-hunt. OK, nevermind.
PERINO: And will she pardon all of these individuals like Thomas, who were prosecuted for it.
WILLIAMS: Thomas was not secretary of state.
PERINO: No, but -- does she, do you think that she actually has credibility with people in the national security industry?
WILLIAMS: I don't think that's up to them. That's like us challenging.
PERINO: Because she wants to be commander-in-chief.
WILLIAMS: That's -- look, that's up to the voters. Go right ahead.
PERINO: I'm asking you, though. Do you think she has credibility with them?
WILLIAMS: You're taking the Democrat attitude that, you know what, republicans are so anxious to take her down and.
PERINO: No. I actually -- you know what, don't fall for this, republicans. This is the whole thing of like democrats, basically saying that I'm trying to help the democrats? No.
WILLIAMS: Democrats.
PERINO: The Democrats were always going to move in lockstep behind her, anyway. You actually have to look for the truth, regardless of where it lies.
GUTFELD: It's great, it's great. It's like, hey, you know every time you try to call her out on her incompetence, you're an investigator, you're helping her.
PERINO: Right.
GUTFELD: That's so you don't do that.
PERINO: Right.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute.
GUTFELD: It's like a reverse.
WILLIAMS: That hope is the FBI is investigating?
GUTFELD: Yeah, I know.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, we want that. Let's see what happens then and see how trivial what matter it is to you at that point, Juan.
WILLIAMS: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I'm going to visit her when she's in jail.
WILLIAMS: Is that right?
GUTFELD: Oh, yeah.
WILLIAMS: And Joe Biden is going to run.
GUILFOYLE: I don't think she's going to be accepting.
PERINO: And a week from today her testimony on Capitol Hill on the Benghazi committee.
GUTFELD: I'm going to put a file in her cake.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Ahead, Donald Trump reflects back on his campaign, thus far for the White House. Plus, he previews his upcoming "SNL" appearance, that's all next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: As NBC announced that Donald Trump will host "Saturday Night Live," Trump also spoke to that network about things that he said in the past. Hmm, I wonder if he could probably have said fewer things about certain things. But honestly, he's very happy with the way it's going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MSNBC)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I could probably have said fewer things about certain things. But honestly, I'm very happy with the way it's going.
I never look back. I like to look forward. I like to learn from the past and I have learned.
I can watch my words a little bit, maybe be a little more politically correct. But to be honest with you, I think one of the reasons I am doing well is because I don't want to -- being politically correct takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of effort. We don't have time in this country. Our country is really in trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: He's right. Being politically correct is time-consuming, but being politically incorrect is not a cover for being crude.
But Trump's a figure who can navigate both swamps of pop culture and politics. He's the first Republican to swim downstream from celebrity as a statesman. His power is that he can do "Saturday Night Live" in his sleep. His challenge, however is that we expect more when he's awake.
So while I'm all for the skits, you can't be sketchy with world politics. Time for specifics. This race goes beyond an emotional high one gets from bold jabs on Twitter. Trump must put out, not put down.
His old strategy, "I won't show you my hand until I get the job," it's OK with groupies, but he wouldn't take that from a contractor, and we can't from a candidate, either. We already tried that, remember?
So we need evidence that he's thinking of the big stuff in a practical manner. That means Islamic extremism, non-state terror, cyber terror, the changing demands of national security.
As the world unravels, your standard for leadership shouldn't be, "He's politically incorrect." It's, "Can he persuade the rest of America that he can govern?" Maybe that will be a skit.
So Kimberly, how do you think he's going to do it on "Saturday Night Live"? He's done it before. He's one of the few Republicans who can pull this stuff off.
GUILFOYLE: I think he's going to crush it. I really do. I think it will be one of their highest rated. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I bet you he's really going to answer the call. He's going to be himself. He's very good impromptu. He's got a lot of confidence. And when he's been on the tack shows...
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: ... you know, the late-night shows, he's done great. He was fantastic with Jimmy Fallon, too. So sit back, pop the popcorn.
GUTFELD: I'm tired of popcorn.
Dana, let's admit: he can be very charming when he's self-deprecating.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: And he under -- like in that interview, he just seems to be such a good person. It's when he gets up, and he starts repeating the platitudes that he gets...
PERINO: Well, there's definite benefit of being comfortable in front of the camera.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: And having done "Saturday Night Live" before, then that's easier.
And also, when you show up in person, in my experience, they're almost always nicest to you. OK. It's very rare that they would actually go after him in a way that is not flattering in some way to him. So it's a good decision on his part.
On one of the things that you mentioned on world affairs, so this morning - - I think it was this morning, but within the last 24 hours -- he was talking about the report of -- from the Dutch government that said that the plane that was taken down in Ukraine was from a Russian missile.
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: And today, Donald Trump questioned that and said, "Well, we don't know if that's true. Maybe we'll never really know." But I think that when you want to be the leader of the free world, when you have one of their allies that does an independent investigation, you should at least back them up.
GUTFELD: There's -- so we talked about that. There's something about Putin and Trump. He must be building hotels in Moscow. I don't know what it is. But he's like, you know, "He's not a bad guy."
So -- so Eric, I have a feeling that the "SNL" crew will be more intimidated by him than he will be intimidated by them.
BOLLING: I don't know. I think he -- he does so well in those situations. Like you said, he can be self-deprecating. They can probably even do anti- Trump skits, and he'll pull it off.
PERINO: He'll laugh. Right.
BOLLING: He'll laugh. He has that skill.
Asking -- great monologue. Very smart to go like, yes, he's awesome in this. But yes, he could also use work here. I'm not sure where, if you like him or if you don't like him.
GUTFELD: I've always been -- I've always been here for Donald, as an educator.
BOLLING: Got you, got you.
GUTFELD: You know what. I can offer my assistance, my brain to help him out.
GUILFOYLE: And your eyebrows.
BOLLING: The way I see the things -- you want specifics, right?
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: You want to see specifics. You may not get the specifics, because he may not have them. He's got an immigration plan. He's got a tax plan. He's got things. But what he does very smartly, and he brings up names of very, very smart people in business, in government.
GUTFELD: Carl Icahn.
BOLLING: Friends of his.
GUTFELD: It's always Carl Icahn.
BOLLING: But when you think of that, wouldn't you rather have that anyway?
GUILFOYLE: I think he's running...
BOLLING: Wouldn't you rather have, rather than a President Obama who says, "I know everything, so I'm going to sign away on everything that I believe," surrounded -- that person surrounded with really smart people and let them help them, that organization come to a decision?
GUTFELD: The only thing I worry about is that imagine if he was on the "The Apprentice," and somebody said, "Look, I'm not going to sell any cupcakes today. Once you hire me, I'm going to go sell those cupcakes."
He's going to say, "You're fired."
WILLIAMS: Or how about this: "I'm going to get Eric and Greg and Dana and Kimberly to sell those cupcakes. They're great people, so elect me and trust that I will pick up" -- it's ridiculous.
GUTFELD: That's what they do with Fox News.
WILLIAMS: Well, I know, but wait. That was going to be my point for this segment.
So NBC cuts ties with Donald Trump and "The Apprentice" over his, you know, calumny against Hispanics, right? But now, for ratings, oh, the Donald's back in the game. And he will, as Kimberly said...
GUILFOYLE: He's going to kill it.
WILLIAMS: He's going to bring out big numbers.
GUTFELD: Right.
WILLIAMS: Everybody's going to watch. Now is he, in fact, because he's so bombastic -- I think he can be easily punctured by comics and critics and skeptics and the like. The question is how he feels about it. And I think he's just going to get into it.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I think he will, as you said -- he will kill it.
GUILFOYLE: I said he's going to crush it.
WILLIAMS: Crush it.
PERINO: I think anybody that shows up and is willing to play along will do pretty well there.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: But he'll do...
GUILFOYLE: He's going to do great. He's going to get -- he's going to get more supporters, I think, because people are going to see that side of him; and maybe that's enough for some. You just never know.
PERINO: And there's high expectations for him. If you don't do well, then it will be embarrassing.
GUTFELD: Yes. Is there anybody in that field of Republicans that -- I mean, I think Christie could do it.
BOLLING: Ben Carson can do it.
PERINO: Yes.
BOLLING: I think most of them could do it. Greg, the writing, right? I mean, they have the team of writers that can put together, anyone can be funny.
GUTFELD: I think Lindsey Graham would be the best.
WILLIAMS: How about we surround Donald Trump with a bunch of women and Hispanics.
BOLLING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He might not be able to pull that off.
WILLIAMS: Yes, yes.
PERINO: Santorum might have a hard time.
GUTFELD: Santorum. That would be troubling.
OK. Ahead, Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, and my squash partner, has found himself back in the news, this time for deflating one of the world's most popular soft drinks. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Only one Democrat on the stage Tuesday night said that all lives matter, when they were given a choice between saying black lives matter and all lives matter. So that one candidate was Jim Webb. Two prominent African-Americans, though, have some words for the rest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: It was plantation politics in its finest hour. The continued enslavement of black people emotionally by the Democrat Party with this destructive liberal ideology. And they know it. They're whoring for votes. They know that's what they're doing. The liberal ideology has been very destructive for the black community for the last 50 or 60 years.
BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course all lives matter. And all lives includes black lives. And we have to stop submitting to those who want to divide us up into all of these special interest groups and start thinking about what works for everybody. There are a lot of policies that this administration embraced that hurt black lives, that hurt all people who are in the underclass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Kimberly, Sheriff Clarke, Ben Carson, I think they're right. Clearly, all lives matter. But to me it's a political context up on the debate stage, where you have the Democrats not wanting to antagonize the Black Lives Matter group, for fear of possibly losing black political support in the Democratic primaries. What do you think?
GUILFOYLE: I never stand down to bullies.
WILLIAMS: Even in a political -- when you're trying to win someone's vote?
GUILFOYLE: No. Then who are you? Who are you? You're somebody who's a sell-out, then, because you know what you're saying is not right. You're doing it anyway, because you're pandering. You're trying to steal votes from people by saying something that you know is not true. I'm not into that.
WILLIAMS: Well, Eric, you now what? I think -- this is interesting. I said what I think is interesting. How crazy am I? But I just think -- in fact, I think if Black Lives Matter said all lives matter, they would potentially bring in more support for themselves.
GUILFOYLE: But they don't want to. Their group.
BOLLING: It would undermine their exact...
GUILFOYLE: They're going to defund their group.
BOLLING: ... mantra. Their whole point is specifically pointing out that there's an issue with police and...
WILLIAMS: Well, that's right.
BOLLING: ... the African-American community.
WILLIAMS: No, that's right. But don't you think, Dana, the kid -- that when they say that you can't say all lives matter, then people who disagree with them say that's a problem.
PERINO: I think you're forgetting one thing and all of us are. A lot of different politicians have tried to meet with them. Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush.
And -- OK, sorry. I know we have to go in a minute, after Greg. I was just finishing a thought.
Is that at the DNC meeting, then they actually passed a resolution saying, "OK, we hear you, Black Lives Matter. We get it."
And the Black Lives Matter people rejected it, because it wasn't strong enough. So even when you try to talk to them, they push back against you.
WILLIAMS: So Greg, are they -- is it the case that, if you say all lives matter, that you are somehow diminishing Black Lives Matter and the issue of excessive use of force by police?
GUTFELD: They should tell Hillary all lies matter.
You make a deal with the devil the moment you embrace identity politics.
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: Because then you know that you need to foment division in order to exist.
Unity is the enemy of identity politics, so you're willing to actually create a fractious country in order to get power. And there's nothing scarier to a white leftist, than an Africon [SIC], what I call black conservatives. A black conservative, who's a walking, breathing rejection of that phony toxic ideology. And like, if a white liberal gets on an elevator and there's a black conservative, they will take the stairs.
WILLIAMS: I'm afraid I've seen them take the stairs.
Don't move. "The Fastest Seven" -- it is a really good "Fastest Seven" -- up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Welcome back, time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: Fastest 7
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Six and a Half or So," three stimulating stories, seven streaming minutes, one spirited host.
First up, Lamar Odom was an NBA star married to a Kardashian. He had money; he had fame. He seemed to have it all. Then it all started to fall apart. A pending divorce. He got released from his basketball team. The spiral which began last year culminated in in this 911 call from Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please hurry. He's blood coming out of his nose, white stuff coming out of his mouth. Can't get him to wake up. He's like almost not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, is he conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right, Juan, we're going to go to you. Bad things were going on. But for some reason I just -- I still feel bad for the guy.
WILLIAMS: I think everybody feels bad. It's just an awful situation. And, you know, someone with that kind of career -- he was in the NBA 14 years -- it's just -- I don't understand. Why does a guy like that, in that place -- and people are enabling. But I'm serious...
GUTFELD: No, I mean, he's a guy.
WILLIAMS: You and I are guys.
GUTFELD: By the way, he was in a whorehouse doing drugs. I mean...
WILLIAMS: Is that a way to go?
BOLLING: I feel sorry for him, because...
GUTFELD: It's a way to go.
WILLIAMS: What do you mean?
BOLLING: If you got to go?
GUTFELD: I mean, I guess I have sympathy, but there are people that die in horrible, horrible ways that I have sympathy for.
WILLIAMS: But he's self-destructive.
GUTFELD: Yes. There's a lot of people -- but there's a lot of people in this world who are self-destructive.
BOLLING: K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Self-reflection?
GUTFELD: I'm reading a book on empathy.
GUILFOYLE: That's a long time coming, by the way. Start over on page one.
GUTFELD: No, I feel bad for him. I feel bad for him. But we know that bad things were going on there.
GUILFOYLE: I feel badly for him and for the family. But you know, at least they're there to support him. But it doesn't look good from all the reports. Very troubling.
BOLLING: Dana.
PERINO: I don't know what to say, because I'm not -- I'm not really aware of him. But I do recognize the drug abuse in this country is very serious. And I think that you're going to see a lot more focus on this issue in the presidential election.
BOLLING: Yes.
PERINO: And partly it's not only -- it's abuse such as this. But it's the lower level, the debate. The Drug Enforcement Agency today did a raid on 13 cities to go after synthetic Chinese drugs that people are taking. And it's just a really serious issue, and innocent people are dying.
GUTFELD: The one other thing that drives me crazy, is I don't understand why 9-11 -- 911 calls are public. Because that keeps people from calling 911. When somebody is dying, you think to yourself, that's a celebrity that's dying. I'm not going to make the phone call, because I'm going to be on TV.
BOLLING: All right. Got to move on. Next up, we know Fallon does a funny Donald Trump impression. But check this out: Fallon doing Trump and David Alan Grier doing a pretty darn good Ben Carson on "The Tonight Show" last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: And that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.
CLINTON : Thank you, thank you.
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": I don't get this guy. All he does is yell. Do we really need a president who does nothing but yell?
DAVID ALAN GRIER, COMEDIAN: I yell all the time. In fact I'm yelling right now. This is my normal voice. And my whisper is only audible to dogs, watch.
(SOUND EFFECTS: DOG GROWLING)
FALLON: Down boy, down boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: No. 1 and two GOPers.
GUTFELD: I have to say this is, one of the primary reasons why Ben Carson should be president. It will revive the career of David Alan Grier. He's now working again.
BOLLING: K.G., do you like this one?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Yes, I mean, it's funny. And I'm sure, you know, that Ben and the Donald think it's funny, too. I mean, they're the winners right now. They're in the top two spots, and this is what we're getting attention on things like "SNL." They're a reflection, a mirror of what's going on right now in the 2016 election.
WILLIAMS: Just a moment. Just a moment.
GUILFOYLE: We'll see a lot more of it.
WILLIAMS: As someone who likes Ben Carson, knows Ben Carson, Ben Carson is not fat.
GUILFOYLE: No, he's not. I told you that I find Ben Carson to be very handsome.
WILLIAMS: Well, thank you, but I'm just saying, look at this guy.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know why they put padding in his stomach.
PERINO: I don't know why he didn't sit up. I mean...
GUILFOYLE: That's weird.
PERINO: Ben Carson has excellent -- Ben Carson has excellent posture.
GUTFELD: That's David Alan Grier, America. When was the last time you saw him?
PERINO: I don't remember.
BOLLING: What's he doing now?
Anyway, got to move on. Tom Brady, superstar quarterback, check. Tom Brady, married to a supermodel, check. Tom Brady, good Samaritan on children's nutrition? Check, I guess.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM BRADY, QUARTERBACK, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (via phone): You'll probably go out and drink Coca-Cola and think, "Oh, yes, that's no problem." That they can sell that? You know, to kids? That's -- I mean, that's poison for kids.
I think we've been lied to by a lot of food companies over the years, by a lot of beverage companies over the years. We believe that Frosted Flakes are actually -- is a food. You just keep eating those things, and you keep wondering why, you know, we do have, you know, just incredible rates of disease in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Like this one?
PERINO: Well, I think he's obviously free to express his opinion; and people might seek it out, because he's a major superstar and he's in incredible health. And so people might want to know what would you feed your kids?
I just think that he didn't have to actually name Coca-Cola. You could have said, say, "soft drinks," and that would have been a more reasonable thing to do.
BOLLING: Yes. He can cross off Coca-Cola and General Mills, I guess, whoever the brand that he named -- he can cross those off as potential endorsements.
WILLIAMS: You sure that wasn't Mayor Bloomberg?
BOLLING: K.G.
GUILFOYLE: You know, I mean, this is the influence of Gisele.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Brazilian, healthy, eating acai berries, all of that. Yes, and so let him -- he can say what he wants. It's not like it's going to hit him in the pocketbook.
GUTFELD: I think that he should shut up. And I'll tell you why. Coca-Cola is the greatest beverage ever made. It used to have cocaine in it back in the day.
By anyway, Coke -- I had Coca-Cola every day when I was a child, and I turned out like this. By the way...
PERINO: Did it stunt your growth?
GUTFELD: Yes, it did. How dare you?
But I've got to say this: Coca-Cola doesn't cause head injuries. It doesn't cause head injuries. What does? Something called football, Mr. Brady.
BOLLING: Speaking of football, don't forget this weekend Brady gets a little revenge served on a platter, perhaps. Indianapolis Colts at the New England Patriots, Gillette Stadium. It's going to be a great thing to watch, a thing of beauty.
GUILFOYLE: Sports Center.
BOLLING: Up next, "One More Thing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Greg.
GUTFELD: All right. Let's roll this thing, huh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's Disgusting News
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: This is absolutely repulsive, what I'm about to show you. So if you have kids in the room, blindfold them and put them in the garage.
These are some rare tiger cubs. Take a look. This is absolutely disgusting. They're -- this is in Crimea, in eastern Europe. There they are just playing around in a basket. I, for one, am disgusted by this.
Interesting fact, they are bottle-feeding, not breast-feeding these cubs, because the mother is not around.
PERINO: I wonder what Tom Brady would say about that.
GUTFELD: An interesting fact is how they're adorable now, but in three months, they will eat your face.
GUILFOYLE: That happens.
PERINO: All right. Disgusting news. Disgusting.
Eric, you're next.
BOLLING: OK. First of all the Pats are at the Colts, not the Colts at the Patriots. Two thousand Twitter people made me aware of that.
PERINO: I heard (ph) that.
BOLLING: OK, cable news exclusive: Charles Koch sits down with Megyn Kelly tonight for one of only two interviews he's ever granted in his whole live. Check it out. Here's a bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES KOCH, BUSINESSMAN: I have been a libertarian in my past. But now I consider myself a classical liberal.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Classical liberal, what does that mean?
KOCH: Classical liberal is someone who -- who wants a society that maximizes peace, civility, tolerance and well-being for everyone. One that -- that opens opportunities for everyone to advance themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right. Don't forget, check that out tonight, "Kelly File" at 9 p.m., exclusive.
PERINO: All right. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, I've got a cute one if you like grandmas. So Ann Romney, she's a proud grandmother of 23 grandchildren. She teamed up with the website Independent Journal Review to make a video guide on how to be a, quote, "freaking awesome grandma." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANN ROMNEY, WIFE OF MITT ROMNEY: Always have a fun craft planned. Always have a fun game ready to play. Keep up with what the kids are into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Her book?
GUILFOYLE: I know. Everyone's -- anyway, and you see her book there, "In This Together." And now all the proceeds go towards neurological research, Greg, to answer your question.
GUTFELD: Thank you.
PERINO: All right, Juan.
WILLIAMS: So I love watching sports, and last night I had a moment of vicarious exhilaration, watching the Toronto Blue Jays' Jose Bautista not just simply hit a three-run homer that would win the game for the Toronto Blue Jays. But watch this. That bat flip, wow, that's a moment of triumph and victory and conquest and dominance. He flipped it towards the Texas Rangers dugout and says, "I'm out of here."
BOLLING: Guess what they did after that?
WILLIAMS: What did they do?
BOLLING: They got into a big fight over that.
WILLIAMS: Well, I'm just saying, and that was a tough -- I loved it. I loved it.
GUILFOYLE: Like a drop the mic moment.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
PERINO: OK. All right. And one thing you might not know, it is National Grouch Day. So of course, you know, I love...
GUILFOYLE: Grouch.
PERINO: ... Oscar the Grouch. But I want to pay tribute to our special little grouch, Greg Gutfeld. We have a picture, right?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PHOTO OF GREG GUTFELD MORPHED WITH OSCAR THE GROUCH)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Look at him.
GUTFELD: Aww.
GUILFOYLE: Aww.
PERINO: Look at him. You are kind of grouchy. And even that word "grouchy" is annoying.
GUTFELD: It is.
GUILFOYLE: He's smiling in the grouchy photo.
GUTFELD: It's good to be grouchy.
PERINO: Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.
GUILFOYLE: It's good to be grouchy.
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