Sen. Rand Paul speaks out about House speaker elections, true state of campaign; Mainstream media mocks GOP shake-up

Ky. senator speaks on 'The Kelly File' about dissention among GOP, optimistic about presidential campaign


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 9, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS HOST:  Breaking tonight, hundreds of Second Amendment supporters protesting the commander-in-chief today as he threatens a new and run around Congress in an effort to change the gun laws.  

Good evening, everyone.  Welcome to "The Kelly File," I'm Sandra Smith in for Megyn Kelly tonight.  President Obama touching down Roseburg, Oregon today to meet with the families of the victims of last week's mass shooting at Umpqua Community College.  The White House insisting this visit purely about comforting those families.  But the couple hundred protesters who greeted him in Roseburg clearly believe otherwise considering the President was talking gun control just hours after the shooting took place.  And while the President hinted at the issue during his remarks today, these folks say this is neither the time nor the place to push political agendas of any kind.  

Correspondent Dan Springer live in Roseburg for us tonight.  Dan.

DAN SPRINGER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Sandra, Roseburg residents definitely did not roll out the welcome mat for President Obama.  Several hundred showed up for a protests here at the airport where Marine One landed.  They carried signs like Obama go home and no bomb.  A most if not all were gun owners.  Many we're carrying as they protests to the President's visit.  They were mainly upset about Obama's call for tougher gun laws within just a few hours of the campus tragedy feeling he was trying to score political points.  


MIKE SEARS, OREGON PROTESTER:  Just looking back in the last several months and stuff, when police officers were slain and stuff like that, there's nothing coming from the White House to console those families or the military when there's a disaster there.  So, all of the sudden, he picks Roseburg just because there was a shooting there.  


SPRINGER:  The White House said Mr. Obama would not talk politics today.  

His desire was to console the families that lost loved ones in the massacre.  Nine people dead, nine others injured.  We know of at least one family that decided not to meet the President but there was a private meeting.  So, we're not sure if there were more.  There were two funerals today.  That would have certainly made it possible to attend but afterwards Mr. Obama's spoke briefly to the media.  


BARACK OBAMA, D- PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES:  I've got some very strong feelings about this because when you talk to these families, you're reminded that this could happen to your child or your mom or your dad.  (INAUDIBLE)


SPRINGER:  The Washington Post reported today that Obama is considering executive order expanding background checks.  Even though it would have no impact in Oregon which is one of the six states that has universal background checks.  It's the kind of thing that fuels the protester's distrust of the President.  We spoke to the local gun shop owner who told us that gun sales are up and that they don't want more gun control.  


CAROLYN KELLIM, GUN SHOP OWNER:  We need strict control.  That's a bunch of baloney.  We don't need strict controls.  We need people that are mentally sick to have some help and to be watched accordingly.  


SPRINGER:  President Obama left Oregon and he went up to Seattle for a fundraiser for Senator Patty Murray.  Back to you, Sandra.  

SMITH:  All right.  Dan, thank you.  Fox News contributor Charles Krauthammer today pushed a calm on what he called, "The cycle of gun talk."  He argued that Democrats follow-up these tragedies with remarks that are often more about politics than about real change.  When they do call for any rules, he points out that they are often unrelated to anything that actually just took place.  

Here's a little of what we heard from the President this week and the woman who wants his job.


OBAMA:  As I said just a few months ago, and I said, a few months before that -- and I said each time we see one of these mass shootings, our thoughts and prayers are not enough.  It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.  

HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  What is wrong with us?  That we can't stand up to the NRA and the gun lobby and the gun manufacturers that they represent.  This is not just tragic.  We don't just need to pray for people.  We need to act.  


SMITH:  All right.  Well, we've got Fox News contributors Katie Pavlich and Eboni Williams here to talk about what's being  proposed.  

But let's start with Fox Digital Politics Editor Chris Stirewalt on the gun control politics.  Because Chris, it's a very emotional time right now.  Emotions are riding high.  And we are seeing that play out there in Oregon. But yet, when you look at the Democrats, you're looking at them seizing the opportunity to basically one-up each other with who can do more about gun control.  Is anybody actually proposing anything that would have kept the gun out of the hands of that shooter last week?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR:  Well, no.  But it is a signal moment that you can turn public attention to it.  Now, we should point out that obviously, these people are sincere.  The president is sincere. Hillary Clinton is sincere. They want gun control.  They want to limit access to guns.  They mean this and they believe that they would be good.  But also, at this political moment, they needed for another reason.  
Now, in the President's case it is -- that there's not a lot good to talk about these days.  Economically, foreign policy, da da da da da. This is an issue that he likes to get on a hobby horse about.  And it turns discussion away.  

But for Hillary Clinton, my goodness!  This is a way that she cannot only make up for the fact that she was, to the Right of much of her party on this issue in the past.  But also, get to the Left of her closest competitor Bernie Sanders and try to box in the administration and Joe Biden who looks like he's getting ready to run.  

SMITH:  And let's be clear with Hillary Clinton, making a bold call which puts her very much to the Left of her opponent, Bernie Sanders calling for the legalization for the Right of the victim of gun violence to sue gun manufacture.  Is this a clear strategy that we're seeing from Hillary Clinton to move far to the Left of Bernie Sanders who's got really a more of libertarian approach to gun control in this country?

STIREWALT:  We see more and more of Hillary Clinton as sort of the Democrats Romney.  The base does not trust her and they don't particularly like her.  So, she has to make specific policy promises.  She has to placate them in some way on specific policies.  She flip-flops on the trade deal.  She flip-flops on immigration issue.  She flip-flops on this and that and the other thing.  Now, she does it on guns.  And she tries to warn up the President.  She says, I'll do double executive orders.  We'll put you on double secret super probation for gun owners.  And I will force these loopholes to be closed.  I will close this up.  And so, she puts the President and by extension Joe Biden in a box.  So, then you see the White House retaliate and come back and say oh, yes?  Well, we're thinking about super-duper duper executive action on gun control.  

SMITH:  Yes.

STIREWALT:  And then you wonder why nobody trusts them on this issue.  

SMITH:  And those people in that community Oregon tonight, they're just saying, just not now.  It's too soon.  It's too fresh.  

All right.  Chris Stirewalt, thanks for joining us tonight.  

STIREWALT:  You bet.

SMITH:  Let's pick up the debate there now with Katie Pavlich, a Fox News contributor and News Editor.  Eboni Williams, a legal analyst and also a Fox News contributor.  

Eboni, I want to start to you first.  Because Charles Krauthammer in this piece in "The Washington Post" very eloquently points out that the President is leaving out a major point in all of this proposed gun legislation by the Democrats.  He is leaving out psychiatric intervention which he points out, this massacres are almost invariably perpetuated by severely disturbed isolated often delusional young man.  But you don't hear that from the Left.  

EBONI WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  You know Sandra, I actually agree with Charles on this.  I mean, background checks alone are not the answer. These are comprehensive problems.  It's going to take a comprehensive solution.  Certainly these are identifiable groups.  Often times in this massive shootings.  These are isolated, disturbed young men who law enforcements or even friends are surrounding them had been able to identify them.  So, let's get in front of this.  Let's have a 48 hours psychiatric hold.  That is permissible.  You know, let's talk about the capacity of some of these large-scale magazines.  We don't need 30 rounds to protect ourselves.  So, there are other ways to go at this.  

SMITH:  And Katie, at this moment, Democrats are being criticized for jumping on this too quickly.  The President jumping on it that day that the shootings occurred.  But it's hard to blame them considering emotions are so high for them trying to seize the moment when it freshens everyone's minds.  

KATIE PAVLICH, TOWNHALL.COM NEWS EDITOR:  Yes.  But they're not choosing the moment to actually solve the problem here because they're proposing things like criminalizing private sales between family members and which affects people in world state.  They want to have universal background checks which of course are already there in Oregon.  There is not a single mass shooting that you can point to where you can say the universal background check that the President is proposing would have prevented a mass shooting.  

And so, it comes down to, if you're going to propose a new law, rather than enforcing the laws that we have on the books, you have to be able to have results of that.  And there's no evidence to prove that background checks stopped these mass shootings.  And it's unfortunate that the President got up last week and assumed that the Oregon community that was affected by this would immediately rally behind him in his gun control cost.  I thought that was a very arrogant thing for him to do.  

SMITH:  Eboni, also Charles Krauthammer points out, the brief mention that we heard from the President praising the gun laws in Australia.  Without directly saying so, he was referencing Australia, what they've done there is they've mandated gun buy backs.  They've taken guns out of the hands of their people.  Is he by some way insinuating that we could see that happen in this country?  

WILLIAMS:  Well, that's certainly a way to read that.  Look, I am a single woman who lives alone in New York City.  I fully respect and appreciate the right to protect myself.  But if there are steps we can take to make it harder for dangerous people to get guns, I do support that and assume that's worth it.  

SMITH:  Katie, that sounds very scary for those who support the Second Amendment.  

PAVLICH:  Well, it does.  And the President is very intellectually dishonest when he says we need modest gun proposals supported by gun owners like the ones they have an Australian Britain where hand guns are banned.  

Our Second Amendment won't stand for that.  The American people won't stand for that.  But when it comes to giving credit where credit is due, and dealing with the mental health issue, now Hillary Clinton sure has attack the NRA a lot but it's the NRA that has worked with Congress in the past and previous presidents to get in mental health legislation, passing Congress and signed into law.  It's preventing these types of people from getting their hands on guns.  Hillary Clinton and her gun control advocates had done nothing to help that process get better.  

SMITH:  And Katie, I know you're always pointing out, quick to point out, that we're talking about proposing new gun legislation and this country is having a hard time imposing the legislation that's already on the books in many states.  

PAVLICH:  Absolutely.

SMITH:  All right.  Katie, Eboni, thank you.

WILLIAMS:  Thank you.

PAVLICH:  Thanks, Sandra.  

SMITH:  Police in Texas are now speaking out about the teenager we've come to know -- as the teenager that we have come to know as the clock kid.  See why they are now fuming.  Why they are now fuming mad?  

Plus, body cam footage clears a group of police officers involved in a fatal shooting earlier.  We will show you the newly-released dramatic video.  

And who was behind the rumor that Kevin McCarthy was having an affair?  
We'll look at that, next.

Plus, Howie Kurtz on McCarthy's decision not to run and how that's been portrayed in the mainstream media.  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The place is impossible to run right now.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The problem is there aren't that many people who want to lead a party that's divided.  


SMITH:  Breaking tonight, the Department of Homeland Security is investigating whether or not someone in their agency may have contributed to a rumor about an alleged affair involving House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Congresswoman Renee Ellmers.  

James Rosen is in Washington with the latest on this story for us.  James.

JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Sandra, good evening.  Republican Congresswoman Renee Ellmers of North Carolina is speaking out on these allegations of an extramarital affair between her and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy saying in a statement, quote, "As someone who has been targeted by completely false accusations and innuendo, I have been moved by the outpouring of support and prayers from my colleagues, constituents and friends."  Now, I will be praying, Ellmers said, for those who find it acceptable to bare false witness."  

Yesterday, amid the tumult of McCarthy's withdrawal from the race for speaker, someone amended the Wikipedia entries for the two lawmakers so that their biographies on the online Encyclopedia that is edited by the Public At Large would include these rumors of an affair which both lawmakers have denied.  Reporter Lachlan Markay of the conservative outlet, The Washington Free Beacon noticed that the changes to the Wikipedia pages appear to have been made to a computer located inside the federal government.  

Markay posted a screen grab indicating that the IP address for this computer was located at the Department of Homeland Security.  DHS officials said, they have lunched an internal investigation into the matter with quote, "Immediate and appropriate disciplinary action are waiting anyone who use government property in such a manner."  However, neither of the two lawmakers has been contacted by DHS.  The agencies probed follows a separate ones.  Recently launched by the DHS and inspector general examining whether anyone in the Secret Service which is housed within the Department of Homeland Security played a role in last April's disclosure.  

And the story published in The Daily Beast, that Congressman Jason Chaffetz had applied to and been rejected by the Secret Service over a decade ago. The Utah republican is a frequent critic of the Secret Service and he made headlines earlier this week when he announced on "Fox News Sunday" that he was challenging McCarthy in the Speaker's race -- Sandra.  

SMITH:  All right.  James, thank you.  News of McCarthy's decision and not to seek the House Speakership surprise many D.C. insiders who considered him a top contender for the job.  But it also lead to two days you may have noticed of mainstream media outlets mocking the GOP.  


SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR:  Today's top story.  It's this Washington whiplash.  Congressional Republicans in turmoil.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You want to talk about chaos in the capitol.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Can anybody in the Republican Party --  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  For right now, it doesn't look like anybody can.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The place is impossible to run right now.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The problem is, there aren't that many people who want to lead the party that's this divided?  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Well, there's wagging all over the place.  I mean, the dogs are running amuck.  

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST:  And then, to the surprise of everyone, Republicans pull the silverware drawer out of the kitchen cabinet, and put it over their heads and shook it.  


SMITH:  Joining me now, Howie Kurtz, the host of "MEDIA BUZZ" on FNC. They're having some fun with this, Howie.  

HOWIE KURTZ, MSNBC HOST, "MEDIABUZZ":  They certainly are popping the champagne corks over at MSNBC.  Before I get to the media -- I just want to go back to James' report one minute.  It is disgraceful the way this unproven rumors about Kevin McCarthy got started on a couple of conservatives websites based on nothing more than gossip.  And a letter from some donor.  And then the next thing you know is -- on Huffington Post and of course it makes it to TV.  I don't know if these are true.  Nobody knows whether these are true.  And a few years ago, this kind of unsubstantiated trash would never have been reported.  

SMITH:  But we know that they are booth denying the affair at this point.  

KURTZ:  Yes.  But -- that's important.  

SMITH:  As far as the Wikipedia added, the spokesman from DHS says that the agency is still looking into all of this, Howie.  But there -- at the root of all this seems to be which you just saw the mainstream media, painting a picture of, you heard the word, chaos coming from the party.  From the GOP among others words that you heard used.  It does seem like there's a little bit of dancing in the streets.  After we have seen, John Boehner quitting, Kevin McCarthy bowing out of the race.  It is a bit of a mess.  Do you agree?  Is it fair?  

KURTZ:  Well, for those of us inside the beltway bubble, this is a very big story.  And I saw in "New York Times," "USA Today" using that word.  Chaos on their front pages.  But look, John Boehner steps down saying, he can't control his republican caucus.  Kevin McCarthy bows out because he can't unify their caucus.  Half of the House is begging Paul Ryan to run.  He doesn't want to.  Nobody knows who is the next speaker is going to be.  It is a little chaotic.  But when you have, you know, Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews and people who are clearly liberal, Matthews for example saying on MSNBC, one of the two countries, two main political parties came apart.  

Yes, they are treating us like Armageddon rather than the fact that it is a disputed leadership election and it reinforces their view that the hardline faction, the freedom caucus in the House is crazy hostage takers.  So, they are definitely enjoying this.  Maybe just a little too much.  

SMITH:  It is different times for the media.  And the way we do see things reported today, you've watched this overtime.  Howie, I mean, how is it different today than it was?  There did seem to be a lot of irresponsible reporting, particularly going back to the McCarthy affair and the fact that they're still denying all of these allegations.  But we did see the media just runaway with this story.  Times had definitely changed.

KURTZ:  Absolutely.  And it's hard to be a gate keeper these days.  In other words, I'm not putting that on my ear, I'm not going to put that story on my newspaper, when it's spreading all of the web and social media.  

And as I've said, it starts on the couple of conservative websites that are not necessarily fans of House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy.  And so, it would be one thing if they were text or an e-mail or photograph or anyone who was pointing to how this was true.  And instead, it is simply gossip.  It is unproven.  And it pains me that our profession sometimes gets stamped into this.  Now, maybe it will turn out this evidence maybe not.  But, here, you know, both of these members of Congress have to deny it.  And at this point, it remains gossip.  

SMITH:  All right.  Well, Howie you sat down with a guy right in the middle of all of this party stuff going on.  Donald Trump, you sat down with him today about his covers and his rivals.  But we will be watching for that interview on "Media Buzz" airing Sunday at 11:00 Eastern.  

KURTZ:  Thanks, Sandra.

SMITH:  We will all tune in.  Thank you.  

While the race for speaker of the house has some media types crying chaos, Senator Rand Paul says, a lot of folks are missing the real story here. And he's here next with that.

And then, when a well-known college committed the crime of serving Mexican food on campus.  How dare they?  The PC police -- we'll show you how this school decided to handle the complaints.  And we'll hear from John Stossel on what happened to free speech at America's colleges?  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The same space is where cultures go to die.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  These people are intimidated.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I was silenced.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It's generally the Left, but that's the power of silence.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You should be fired.  You're a disgusting person.  




UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Congress in chaos after the top candidates replace Speaker John Boehner stuns Washington.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Republicans have no clear idea what happens next.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The search for a new leader have left Republicans on Capitol Hill scrambling.  

PETER ALEXANDER, NBCNEWS NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  Talk about a historic implosion, today this really is Congress in chaos.  

NANCY CORDES, CBS NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  Some members were actually in tears.  


While the mainstream media is more than ready as you saw to describe the election for House Speaker as, quote, "chaos, panic, immaturity and turmoil."  But there are some folks out there who would say, this is how democracy works and it's working well.  Thank you.  

Here now presidential candidate and republican Senator from Kentucky Rand Paul.  

Good evening to you, Senator.  

SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Thanks for having me, Sandra.  

SMITH:  All right.  So, how would you describe more than 24 hours now after McCarthy's withdrawal from the speaker race, how would you describe this day of your party tonight?

PAUL:  You know, I think it reflects dissension that's out there among Republican across the land.  I think they would like us to use the power of the purse and that they're upset that Republicans who have been in leadership haven't really used the power of the purse to try to fight back against wasteful spending, to fight back against President Obama's agenda.  

And I'm with him.  I think we haven't used enough and so, I'm for saying, hey, we need some people who are really going to stand up to the President.  

SMITH:  Well, you say, you start up by saying, I think, but you know, Senator.  I mean, you're traveling the country, you're talking to people on the ground every single day, what are you hearing from people as we do witness this as it has been described chaos in Washington?  

PAUL:  Yes.  I'm not sure I would call it chaos.  So, I would say that it reflects the opinion of the electorate and Republicans are very unhappy because official in Washington, a republican controlled House and a republican controlled Senate do not appear to be controlling the power of the purse.  

SMITH:  All right.  Well, there are concerns about your Senate seat.  There are some in your party that are very vocal about that and some that wants to see you spend maybe a little bit more time back in your home state of Kentucky.  Do you have any plans to do so?

PAUL:  You know, I think we're doing quite well in Kentucky.  I'm in Kentucky all the time.  I live there.  I live in Maureen Green, Kentucky. And I think the funny thing about it is, this comes from some anonymous source somewhere and people reported as news.  But we're doing very well in Kentucky and I'm very strong in Kentucky and there all of the time.  I was just there for the weekend.  My son goes to University of Kentucky and I was there for the football game.  So, now I think those rumors and stories are probably much value but not much substance.  

SMITH:  All right.  Well, maybe you're referencing this republican strategist that was cited in an article, in Politico today.  That strategist not exactly friendly to you and your presidential campaign, saying your presidential dreams need to end.  Senate Republicans can't afford to have a competitive race in Kentucky.  Do you have any change in mind as far as your presidential plans are concerned?

PAUL:  Yes.  I probably sound kind of tired of anonymous people giving me advice.  But no, we're doing quite well, I'm in New Hampshire today, we're just at a big rally of the Liberty Movement in the Republican Party.  The Republican Liberty Caucus.  And we have organized now over 350 college campuses.  So, I think our presidential campaigns is actually going much better than has been reported.  And also we're doing well in Kentucky as well.  

SMITH:  Well, and Senator, to be fair, it's not just as being reported. The poll numbers are a little rough.  Your 10th right now in the GOP field.  
And your poll numbers have dropped nearly six points since early July.  So, that's a Real Clear Politics poll that I'm saying it.  Go ahead.

PAUL:  But it kind of depends on which polls you look at.  If you look at polls where you poll my candidacy against Hillary Clinton, we actually lead her in five battleground states that were won by President Obama.  So, part of choosing who will be the republican nominee is picking someone who actually can win independent votes and win in battleground states.  So, I think that's our strength.  

SMITH:  Eminent domain has been a very hot topic in fact Donald Trump was on with our own Bret Baier earlier in the week on Tuesday.  He expressed his support of eminent domain and said, quote, "I think eminent domain is wonderful."  Listen.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Eminent domain when it comes to jobs, roads, to public good, I think it's a wonderful thing.  I'll be honest with you.  And remember, you're not taking property, you know, the way he asked the question, the way other people, you're paying a fortune for that property.  


SMITH:  Your thoughts, Senator?

PAUL:  I think most conservatives would find it disqualifying to have someone leave the Republican Party who, actually, through force, would take away a private property through a small property owner and give it to a big corporation like a Trump casino.  In fact, he's used this model of forcefully taking property against the wishes of the property owner.  He's used this model repeatedly to enrich himself.  But I think most conservatives in the party when they find out this is his opinion, I think they'll be running away in droves.  

SMITH:  I want to get to this book signing, because you have signed a book that Hillary Clinton sent to you following the last GOP debate and you have turned around and signed that and posted it on EBay, it's on auction.  How much is it fetching tonight?  

PAUL:  It's up to about $8,000.  I also gave her a little message saying Hillary, your lack of defense in Benghazi should forever preclude you from higher office, love, Rand.

SMITH:  Senator Rand Paul, thank you for joining us on the Kelly File tonight.

PAUL:  Thank you.

SMITH:  All right, well, the crazy story of the night is next as we detail what happened after a couple college students complained that it was insensitive to serve Mexican food on campus.

Plus, new fallout from the story of Ahmed Muhammad, the Texas teen who was arrested for showing up to school with a homemade clock that looked a lot like a homemade bomb, wait until you see what police are now sharing with the public.


CHIEF LARRY BOYD, IRVING, TEXAS POLICE DEPARTMENT:  The students showed the device to a teacher who was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's the Kelly File with Megyn Kelly.

SMITH:  New fallout tonight in the story of the Texas teen who was put in handcuffs and suspended last month after showing up at school with a homemade clock that looked a lot like a homemade bomb.  In the weeks since, police in Irving have taken a lot of incoming, and now they are pushing back.  Trace Gallagher has this story, Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES:  You know Sandra, at the same time that Ahmed Muhammad was getting praised by the President and Hillary Clinton in getting invited to the White House, the city of Irving, Texas was getting hundreds of threatening emails and phone calls.  Now, the police have shared a sample of those messages with the Kelly File.  Like one from a man who claims to represent emergency aircraft operators who says those services will be withheld writing, and I'm quoting here, "All employees of the Irving school district and police department and their immediate family members are banned from our aircraft.  That means that our members will watch your child die, bleeding and convulsing on the Love Field Tarmac."  

He goes on to say employees can help themselves by reversing Ahmed's suspension.  To the Irving police chief, one man wrote, "You and your department are a microcosm for the absolute and unquestionable state of incompetence of American police.  May the tenure of your officers and your own tenure as police chief come to an abrupt and pleasant ends."  The hacking group Anonymous also chimed in writing, "We do not forgive.  We do not forget.  Expect us."  Irving Mayor Beth Van Dyne who expressed doubts about Ahmed's motive was also on the receiving end of many threats, but they're too graphic and expletive-field to share with you.  The police have now stepped up patrols in response to the threats, and remember, the school district says there's more to the story, but they can't share without consent from Ahmed's family.  But Ahmed and his family are out of the country gaining recognition for Ahmed's alleged scientific and engineering capabilities, Sandra.

SMITH:  Thanks for the update, Trace.

All right, we are also tracking controversy at Clemson University, where they just held a Mexican food event called Maximum Mexican.  The food servers were wearing sombreros, and they had other decorations like balloons with mustaches on them.  Most of the students say they had fun, but Clemson has to issue an apology after some students said it was culturally insensitive and questions the schools focus on diversity.  

Joining me now to discuss this story is National Review Reporter and Fox News Contributor Katherine Timpf, thanks for joining us tonight.  


SMITH:  Outrage on the campus, really?

TIMPF:  I'm not even really that surprised.  This is happening everywhere. If there is a taco and a sombrero in the same room, people are going to go crazy.  If you ever catch yourself in the same room with a taco and a sombrero, and you think a college kid might be there, you better go because you're going to be in trouble.  It's everywhere around the country, even in England -- a school told a Mexican restaurant they had to stop giving sombreros out to their kids because it was too racist.  

SMITH:  What is to different now -- because Clemson has done this for years, they have a lot of different cultural events where they have festivities surrounded by food -- the food comes from.  They've done this for years.  This year is different.  Why?  

TIMPF:  Because the culture has changed now where all it takes is for one or two to whine and they're automatically right.  If they just say -- oh this is offensive, this is racist, and that's the ultimate argument.  They have power of everything and that's a bummer because whiners aren't always right, in fact, they're annoying and boring a lot.  

SMITH:  So one student from Clemson tweeted out a picture of the cafe workers which, we -- as we were detailed, were wearing sombreros, and said, "Our culture isn't a costume and we will not be mocked."  Should we be more sensitive to thoughts like that?  Maybe this really did insult someone.

TIMPF:  She sounds like somebody who has never had a real problem in her life -- is what she sounds like to me.  A sombrero and a taco in the same room, they wore some balloons, you're fine, you're getting a college education, your life's going very well, and there's going to be even harder stuff coming for you in the real world.

SMITH:  And maybe from harder stuff for these students -- could you imagine?  One senior told, he's worried about what's next?  

What else are they going to take away?

TIMPF:  Absolutely.  There's going to some sort ethnic food, you have to make sure you're wearing plain clothes -- maybe you don't talk at all. It's getting crazier and crazier.

SMITH:  All right, Katherine, thank you.

TIMPF:  Thank you.

SMITH:  My next guest surely has an opinion on this.  You're taking up the debate over -- whether free speech on college campus and throughout the world is under attack.  His special is airing this Saturday night at 8:00 p.m. Easter time on the Fox News Channel.  Here's a clip.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Terrorists killed ten journalists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What you say may get you killed.  I'm told Muslim support free speech.  What?  It's only Muslims who seem to be doing the killing over speech.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Wanting to take a fight with Islam is insane.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Why did you stick you head in the sand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  But today, even American colleges resist free speech.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Students want to save space.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  To save space is where cultures go to die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  These are not...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You should be fired.  You're a disgusting person.


SMITH:  John Stossel is here, the Host of "Stossel," welcome -- so your reaction, sir, by the way before we get to your special coming up, your reaction to Clemson -- away with the Mexican food night.

JOHN STOSSEL, HOST OF "STOSSEL":  You had a sense of humor about it.  But I lost mine.  This is the toe totalitarian thought police and it's all from the left --people are having their heads chopped off in the Middle East and these kids are upset by a sombrero?  

SMITH:  It really is bad and I think everyone at home is thinking of something that probably happened to them today, where they felt that they really had to not say something because it could offend someone.

STOSSEL:  These kids are paying $60,000 to go to these schools where the thought police tell them certain positions -- you must align with the left or it's no good.  Shut up.  

SMITH:  All right, so you've got this special coming up.  Is free speech under attack in this country?  

STOSSEL:  We still have it good compared to Saudi Arabia.  But crazy things are happening.  And the big one is Islam, the idea that every religion can be criticized.  But South Park will censor and not repeat a show that dared make a comment about Islam.  This is a real threat to our freedom.  If we give into this and CNN and NBC and the Times will not show the cartoon that led to this shooting, then that's letting the materialism win.

SMITH:  What did you learn during this special when you actually got on the ground and were talking to people about the change that they're seeing in America?

STOSSEL:  The creepy part -- more people say hate speech laws are a good thing, they want to support that.  Instinct says yeah, we should try to band hate speech.  But hate speech is part of life, and it's only through that interaction that we get to better solutions and in countries where you can't say it, the only solution is to kill and burn.

SMITH:  This subject only got more complicated with the entrance of the internet and social media, right, because so many people can say things anonymously now.  

STOSSEL:  And good, let them, and we will survive this.  And the answer to ugly speech is more speech.

SMITH:  All right, so the special, John Stossel coming up, 8 o'clock.

STOSSEL:  Tomorrow at 8 o'clock.  

SMITH:  All right, watch it.  John Stossel, thank you.

STOSSEL:  Thanks.

SMITH:  When a cop shoots a suspect, it can quickly become front-page news as we've seen.  But have seen anything about the story where a suspect a shot a cop and that officer still didn't fire, you will tonight.

Plus, with Russia flooding the Middle East with planes, guns, and boots on the ground, we'll be looking at signs that the U.S. may be abandoning this fight entirely.


SMITH:  Has the U.S. sounded a retreat on its mission to fight the Islamic state in Syria?  That question comes as the Russian expand operations in the Middle East and we learn that the U.S. is not only flying just a fraction of our own missions, but that we are now conceding air space to the Russians.  Earlier today, the Pentagon suspended a multi-million dollar program aimed at training and equipping the Syrian rebels.  Colonel Tony Shaffer is a CIA-trained Intel Operative and Senior Fellow with the London Center for Policy Research.  Is that a fair question, Colonel, are we in retreat here?

TONY SHAFFER, CIA-TRAINED INTEL OPERATIVE:  Well, one could essentially come to that conclusion based on the fact we've also withdrawn patriot missiles from Turkey and we just had a carrier battle group leave the region as well.  So with that said, I think what's happening right now is a realization that the current policy is completely in chaos.  I think there is some re-thinking going on.  Let's be totally blunt here, that policy -- the program of training these so-called moderate Islamic radicals to fight on our behalf -- completely insane.  It was doomed to fail from day one.  

So I think what we're seeing here in clearing the decks to re-establish a baseline strategy which I would like to believe to be effective.

SMITH:  Ok, so the President has been challenged many times on this strategy and his reluctance to change it.  He was actually recently challenged by Steve Croft and his still adamantly denying the strategy while attacking Putin -- while Putin and Russia continue gain ground and strength, listen.


OBAMA:  Steve, I've got to tell you.  If you think that running your economy into the ground and having to send troops in order to prop up your only ally as leadership, then we've got a different definition of leadership.


SMITH:  So if the plan is changing, Colonel, what have we learned now? What has the Pentagon learned?  Why are they now willing to change course?

SHAFFER:  The President is completely putting up a straw man there, and I'm sorry Vladimir Putin can maybe do what the President can't do -- walk and chew gum.  Putin is doing this -- because that's what you do to achieve military victory.  Let's be clear here.  What is happening is Putin's coming in to achieve what we failed -- to go after ISIS and frankly to go after the groups we were trying to support.  He's going in with a sword, we're trying to do it with a scalpel's little knife.  So what's going to here -- he's going both ways, he's going to clear it out and what we have to remember, Sandra, the thing that we must do is prevent the fall of Syria.  

We saw what happened when Libya fell, it became total chaos.  So Vladimir Putin recognizes that, the President apparently does not.  We met with the Iraqi and Iranian Kurds, we have proxy's, we have allies that we could train, we could arm we could equip, and that's what the President's continued to fail to recognize and be willing to do.

SMITH:  Do you think that I we'll ever hear from the President himself that policy has failed and that we need to change course?

SHAFFER:  Everybody except the President recognizes, Sandra, the policy is completely failed.  We've been working with members of congress again.  

We've been meeting with the Kurds.  Everybody knows.  So it's -- I think, time that he recognize that he is literally playing checkers in a game of chess.  And that chess game right now is dominated by Vladimir Putin.  What he's doing, Putin is actually helping us, with that said, and it's going to reach point of diminishing return.  I'm sorry, Mr. President, Putin is doing what you should have done a year ago.

SMITH:  All right, Colonel Shaffer thanks for joining us tonight.

SHAFFER:  Sure.  Thank you.

SMITH:  When a cop shoots a suspect, it can quickly become front page news.  

But have you have seen anything about the story where a suspect shot a cop and that officer still didn't fire back?  We'll have that next.


SMITH:  Developing tonight, dramatic new video clearing four cops involved in a fatal shooting in Ohio earlier today.  Sorry, earlier this year.  The recently released video, however, from the body camera of one of the officers captured them being fired upon by a gunman before asking him to drop his weapon and finally returning fire themselves.  Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with that story, Trace.

GALLAGHER:  Sandra, in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, there was a national movement pushing for police to wear body cameras so cops to be held accountable.  But in Cleveland, newly released video from last March shows police officers were justified in using deadly force against 64-year-old Theodore Johnson.  Police responded to Johnson threatening to shoot his wife and land lady, but watch what happens when they're confronted by Johnson on the stairs.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Oh, god.  I've been hit.


GALLAGHER:  Two shots fired, one striking officer David Moniz in his bullet-proof vest.  But even after he was shot, Moniz tries to reason with Johnson.  Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  On the ground.  We don't want to kill you.  Just drop the gun.  You don't want to die.


No, you don't want to die.


GALLAGHER:  That back and forth went on for 90 seconds, police repeatedly pleading for Johnson to put down his gun and Johnson repeatedly refusing, watch again.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I know you shot me, but I'm not going to shoot you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I don't care.  Do what you do, man.




GALLAGHER:  The county prosecutor says that because the body camera the evidence is "indisputable" and the officers were left with no choice.  The officers in this case will not face any charges, Sandra.

SMITH:  Unbelievable video.  Trace, thank you.  We'll be right back.


SMITH:  A lot of you are weighing in on Clemson University canceling their Mexican themed food night.  People worried about their chili cook-off, their margarita night.  Weigh in on the Kelly File's Facebook page.  We would love to hear from you.  Tell us what you think about tonight's show as well.  Thanks for watching.


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