Trump lying low after controversial town hall response?
Candidate claims business deal caused him to pull out of South Carolina event
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 18, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City -- we're already laughing, this is The Five.
So Donald Trump was supposed to be speaking at an event in South Carolina this hour, where 10 of his opponents are gathered. But he pulled out at the forum last minute, citing a business deal he needed to attend to. It would have been his first appearance since a new controversy erupted for not correcting this supporter of his, yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a problem in this country, it's called Muslims. We know our current president is one.
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know he's not even an American.
TRUMP: We need this question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Birth certificate, man. But anyway, we have training camps, growing, where they want to kill us. That's my question, when can we get rid of them?
TRUMP: We're gonna be looking at a lot of different things. And you know, a lot of people are saying that. And a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We're gonna be looking at that and plenty of other things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Trump did not respond directly to the man's claim that President Obama is a Muslim, who is not American. And he's getting plenty of pushback for it. Here was the White House, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Mr. Trump isn't the first republican politician to countenance these kinds of views, in order to win votes. In fact, that's precisely what every republican presidential candidate is doing when they decline to denounce Mr. Trump's cynical strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But actually, this republican candidate denounced Trump earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to lecture him about what to do. I'll just tell you what I would do. And I would not have permitted that if someone brought that up at a town hall meeting of mine. I said no, listen, before we answer, let's clear things up for the rest of the audience. And I think you have an obligation as a leader to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: In a statement, Trump says, "The media wants to make this about Obama. The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. Christians need support in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake." OK, there's a lot to cover here. Let's start with the protester. Greg, you had a suggestion earlier in the week that they could have dealt with this at the debate.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah.
PERINO: They have show of hands.
GUTFELD: I assume that this would have come up in the debate, they would ask a question and Trump would have prepared to answer it because he should have seen this coming. However, I -- you got to talk -- you got -- I am not a conspiracy theorist. In fact, I'm anti-conspiracy theorist, but that guy's voice was like, if a forwarded e-mail had a voice that would be the voice. All that's missing is stuff about being the camp son Jade Helm. You know, ever campaign attracts nut, but I'm sorry that guy is -- I swear, Jimmy Kimmel is behind this because no one.
GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST Howard Stern, man.
GUTFELD: Yeah, because no one spoke.
RIVERA: Howard Stern.
GUTFELD: Look, when Joe the Plumber approached President Obama, when he was running. Within five minutes, you knew Joe the Plumber was. We have no idea who this guy is. He just disappeared, and having said that, that doesn't make Trump's response. OK, those are two separate stories. Trump should have been prepared, he should been able to answer it and he didn't. That's his problem. On the other hand, this is so fishy. It's just a fishy thing. Who is behind it? I don't know.
PERINO: But the other thing is, Eric, the pulling out of the forum. So this is a big forum in South Carolina held by Heritage Action. It's happening actually, as we speak. And he was expected to be there as with everybody. And actually, I was watching some of it earlier, good place for them to actually have longer time to answer questions that they didn't have at the debate the other night, pulls out the last minute, citing a business deal. Is that gonna pass the smell test?
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Well, I don't -- who knows. Maybe it's a business deal, maybe it's not. Well, Lindsey Graham is not going to be there, either, right? He's campaigning in Iowa. So, for whatever reason, he didn't want to show up. It maybe that he felt he was going to be attacked by nine other candidates again. He just did -- he went through that once this week. So does not -- I'm not making excuses. I don't think it was a horrible response. I mean, he says he didn't.
GUTFELD: You thought it was a good one?
BOLLING: No, he said he didn't hear the whole question. That's what he's saying. I mean.
RIVERA: It was a horrible response.
BOLLING: I don't -- well, if you heard it and you chose not to say anything about it, I guess it could be deemed horrible, but his camp said that he didn't hear the full question or hear the full comment.
PERINO: Go ahead, Geraldo.
RIVERA: My problem with it is, when Trump started, and you know we love the guy, but when Trump started like the Tea Party when it that started, there was a fringe element there, very, very hard right, racist, you know.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: I'm talking about a very small fringe within.
BOLLING: No, no, no.
RIVERA: The original.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Let me finish.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: Let me finish. We did -- you didn't even let me put one sentence together. There was a fringe that.
PERINO: There was not.
RIVERA: He had to marginalize. Now he has college educated people supporting him.
BOLLING: That's right.
RIVERA: Now he has women supporting him, but he -- because of that background, and more importantly, and more relevant to this discussion, because of Trump's own involvement as the architect of the Birther movement as one of the principle proponent.
GUTFELD: Wait. Hillary.
PERINO: No, no.
GUTFELD: Hillary is the architect.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hillary Clinton.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: But we're all complicit.
RIVERA: That Birther -- that whole Birther BS, it was incumbent on Donald Trump to cut that guy off at the knees immediately. Say, listen, he's not a Muslim. He's a Christian. He was born in this country, next question.
PERINO: The other thing.
RIVERA: I think he had to deal with it.
PERINO: The other thing, Kimberly that he says in his statement -- I guess he's been trying to turn it around is Donald Trump says that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. I thought that was like the harshest thing I've actually heard about Obama. I don't think it's fair. But it was pretty aggressive in a response -- as a response.
GUILFOYLE: Well, but there are a lot of people in this country that do feel that there has been, you know, unfair, you know treatment of Christians. There's been statements that the president has made that has really been cause for alarm, when he's addressed to groups and the way he's talked about Christians and the holy wars and all of that. Saying that make -- liking it to somewhat some of these like radical, you know terrorists have done about religious, you know extremism, showing the parallel between the two. As far as Trump's concerned, with respect to this, I think that to me seems like a complete plant. It was a set up.
BOLLING: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: It's a sounds fake. It's (inaudible).
BOLLING: It's a joke, right?
GUILFOYLE: Ridiculous.
BOLLING: It's almost comical the way that was delivered.
GUILFOYLE: So I -- he had an opportunity to go ahead and just handle it and correct the record, et cetera, et cetera and say, listen, don't talk like that about the president of the United States, but then the guy say, well, my question actually is -- so then he answered the question. It was -- you know, you've got to be so on you're A-game every second at this point because, especially when you're a frontrunner, this just goes to show you, you've got to be on top of it.
PERINO: I'm not sure it was a plant. I mean maybe, it was a joke, it was.
GUTFELD: But you know what.
PERINO: But if you actually look -- if you been -- you've seen.
GUILFOYLE: Whether it was or wasn't part of the response.
PERINO: You know the online support for Donald Trump and the whole conservative movement, all of that stuff -- actually, this is repeating things that you see online all the time.
GUTFELD: But I mean these both things can't be this -- can't be true.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
GUTFELD: But be different in the fact -- it could be -- whether it's a plant or not, it was.
GUILFOYLE: He can respond.
GUTFELD: He had to be able to respond to it.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: So why was he incapable of responding it? One, he got comfortable around people who would agree with him.
PERINO: Yup.
GUTFELD: He's a pundit as a candidate, so there's no need for policy. And he would -- he doesn't feel comfortable, denigrating a fan. As a pundit, you don't denigrate fans because they might buy your books. So he was up there more as a pundit than the way John McCain was, when he shutdown that elderly woman who said the same thing. In this incident, in my opinion, this is a microcosm of how we deal with our own fringe elements. Whether on the left or the right, we are scared to shut them up, even though at times we encourage them. Hillary started the Birther movement. We have people who have voiced similar sentiments and changed their minds, and changed their minds. Trump had a moment there to say, "I changed -- I once believed this, having done more research, I changed my mind."
RIVERA: Exactly.
GUTFELD: But he lacks the guard rails of criticism. There aren't people telling him.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Isn't that what is putting him in first place?
GUTFELD: Yeah, words and all.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Its words and all.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: You got to go after the words.
PERINO: Why would you cancel your opportunity?
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I thought that's what everyone loved about him. He said he wasn't afraid.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Now, everyone is talking about him.
RIVERA: I spoke with Eric, Eric Trump for half hour today.
GUILFOYLE: And?
RIVERA: For half hour, Eric Trump said nothing about a plant. Eric Trump said his dad, who he adores and whose campaign, he believes is going full steam ahead. He thinks that his dad handled it fairly well in dismissing it.
GUTFELD: That's a.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: That was Eric Trump's take on it. That was at 11:30 today. No, but I'm saying, Greg is that they have no allegations that it was plant. When I said Howard Stern, that was a joke, you know.
GUTFELD: But it's the plant is relevant.
RIVERA: It's not a plant.
GUTFELD: How do you respond?
RIVERA: It's a guy who likes Donald Trump.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but guess what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it was someone who really thought that, believed it, showed up and voiced it, or it was somebody that came in to try to get a gotcha thing with him and get him in trouble. Regardless, you address it in the same way. You handle it.
RIVERA: True.
GUILFOYLE: You make the statement, you correct the record, you move on and you answer the last part of the question.
PERINO: Let me just show, we haven't -- we've mentioned Hillary Clinton a couple of times. She is the author of the Birther movement. It was back at the last election 2008, when she was running for president. But here is what she said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He knew or he should have known that what that man was asking was not only way out of bounds, it was untrue. And he should have, from the beginning, repudiated that kind of rhetoric. That level of hatefulness. I think it is prejudice. I think it's discriminatory. I think it comes out of the same unfortunate reservoir of hateful rhetoric that we've seen too much of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Back in 2008, one of her campaign -- her campaign circulated this anonymous e-mail questioning President Obama's citizenship. I'll read it to you, it said, "Barack Obama's mother was living in Kenya with his Arab- African father. Like in her pregnancy, she was not allowed to travel by plane then. So Barack Obama was born there and his mother took him to Hawaii to register his birth." That's where it actually all started. And so I understand the White House wanting to go after republicans, but, I think the whole business is terrible.
BOLLING: She birthed the Birther movement?
PERINO: I think so.
RIVERA: She birthed the Birther.
GUILFOYLE: Although, it's like who pushed the video.
RIVERA: I was at.
GUILFOYLE: And who pushed the Birther issue.
RIVERA: Were you at the White House Correspondents' in 2011, when.
PERINO: Proud to have nothing, its' 2011.
RIVERA: Meyer blasted Trump and Obama made fun of Trump's Birther movement. He was humiliated for that. He got very, very angry. He excoriated Seth Meyers that he was a minor talent. He should have never got in the big job. But Trump was sufficiently aware of how raw this misguided position was, that he could have addressed, that he must have addressed it. And why he is not out there today, saying that this is BS.
BOLLING: No one is BS.
RIVERA: That the Christians are under attack.
BOLLING: No one is BS.
RIVERA: But where is he?
BOLLING: Poverty is 15 percent in the country. We have ISIS beheading people. We have refugees swarming borders everywhere, in this border. And we're all doing 15 minutes on whether or not Trump heard a ridiculous question or not.
PERINO: Well, I mean.
RIVERA: Well.
PERINO: Come on, this entire summer has been.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Something like that. Also it's not.
GUTFELD: And you've been wanted to talk about Trump every day.
RIVERA: And one of the great stunts is to say.
PERINO: I'll tell you his trouble.
RIVERA: It's awful that we talk about this, but.
GUILFOYLE: Look at how happy he is.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Look at how happy he is.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: I hate this issue. And here's what I think about it.
PERINO: Also, I have to tell you, it's not an insult to be a Muslim.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: That's what I don't understand. Like even though like, how dare you say that about Obama he's a Muslim? Well, first, it's not an insult to be a Muslim.
RIVERA: And there are no Muslim training camps in the United States are contrary. There was a guy, just indicted, a guy who run for Congress from Tennessee, just indictment for plotting to blow up a Muslim community in upstate New York. It was, you know, there are no Muslim training camps. I think there's.
GUILFOYLE: Well there are sleeper cells.
BOLLING: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: Do you like those better?
PERINO: All right. I think we've beaten that horse.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Do it more.
PERINO: OK?
GUTFELD: I'm against beating horses.
PERINO: Hello, Peter --
GUILFOYLE: Hi, Peter.
PERINO: Peter is on the line.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: All right, next. We turn to another candidate in the forefront of the GOP race, that's Carly Fiorina. And later, it's Facebook Friday. Post your questions for us now on our page, facebook.com/thefivefnc. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Before Wednesday night's debate, Carly Fiorina said a lot of Americans still didn't know her name. I bet that's changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you know what a leader does? They challenge the status quo. I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes, watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking.
Women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
(APPLAUSE)
Unlike Mrs. Clinton, I know that flying is an activity. It is not an accomplishment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
FIORINA: Having met Vladimir Putin, I wouldn't talk to him at all. What I would do immediately is begin rebuilding the six-fleet. Vladimir Putin would get the message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: There you go, Carly. All right, here's Carly following the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIORINA: This was a huge opportunity for me to continue to introduce myself to the American people. And what I'm finding honestly is if people hear me, if they see me, if they understands who I am and what I would do, they tend to be supportive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: One Wall Street Journal columnist is comparing Fiorina to the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher. How can she seize on the momentum following her strong performance? Let's talk about it. So Dana, you were sending this article around.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: It's fascinating, but it came up.
PERINO: As you know, I send articles early in the morning.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I actually wait for like half an hour, so that I don't wake you up in case you have a lot of ding, ding things.
GUILFOYLE: Which you know I have on my phone.
PERINO: Alert you e-mails for -- OK, so the columnist you're talking about who wrote -- in compared her to Margaret Thatcher is The Wall Street Journal Columnist Kim Strassel, and I really think was probably one of the best column she has written in her life. I hope she keeps it for her future collection, it was excellent.
GUILFOYLE: Naturally, it came from McCain.
PERINO: And it talks also about -- yes, of course, that is true. She -- I think in the column what she did is to say, this is why it is difficult for any woman that is running for office, by in particularly republican women at this level and how different -- how there are barriers that you have to clear. And she was able to do that on Wednesday night. And now I just saw poll right before we came out. That her poll numbers are way up and in New Hampshire, she's now number one.
GUILFOYLE: I mean it's remarkable.
PERINO: According to one poll -- right.
GUILFOYLE: So we're going to see what happens because we're starting to see some of the real, you know results coming in that are taking the debate performances, you know, into account. Geraldo, you like her?
RIVERA: I like her full throated condemnation of the Planned Parenthood videos. I thought that in terms of, if you are a right to life person, that was the most impassioned and eloquent opposition to partial birth abortion, or whatever that was that she was describing I have ever heard. It was impossible to ignore that. I also thought that her well-versed foreign policy stuff was pretty good as well. But I also, and in fairness, thought that Trump cut a lot of the wind out of her sails when he brought up her business record at HP and the layoffs and loosen and so Ford. And I think that she will have -- as she did when she was running for senate in California, as you recall. I think that she'll have a very difficult time overcoming her track record in business. It's been very rocky. There are tens of thousands of laid off HP workers there who -- I already saw a couple of them servicing, said they've lost their pension because they were laid off in this (inaudible).
GUILFOYLE: That's going to happen. So she's going to have to deal with it. So in the wake, Eric, of this kind of immense popularity and a lot of people just saying what a great job she did on the debate.
BOLLING: And think about what she talks about her rise at HP from secretary all the way up to CEO. She does have a lot of hurdles. She has some issues with the performance at HP and then Trump pointed out, lucent -- I didn't even know about lucent, but he pointed that out. There's also some in this -- I'm not bashing Carly. There's something else in her path that she needs to probably get out in front of before someone else does on a stage. And when it's the stage moment, it becomes bigger than life. It's -- when at HP, they did some -- the HP did some dealings that went through a middleman that ended up in Iran. So there's some equipment that went from HP to the middleman, I believe into Iran. And if she can somehow work through all those things now, I think she can be in the top three. How was that, I think it will be in a very short term. I think she can move into third or fourth place after Trump and after Ben Carson.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, as you know, she is shooting for the top of the ticket, make no mistake about it. So Greg, how do you see it? Do you think she was in any way kind of like hurt by the allegations?
GUTFELD: Not at all.
GUILFOYLE: That bringing up HP?
GUTFELD: Because -- I mean, consider who is accusing her of her business dealings. There are some other issues there. I call her a cardless Carly because everybody is playing a card except her. There's -- she's not playing her gender. She's not talking about her identity. She's relegating victim status to the morgue because she's basically saying she's so confident in herself. She doesn't have to lead -- but, you know with the woman factor. And it makes Hillary seem kind of old in the sense of the 1970's old. You know, I am woman hear me.
GUILFOYLE: Bombastic.
GUTFELD: Hear me roar. It's so irrelevant these days. But also, what I find interesting is she got the mainstream media to finally cover the Planned Parenthood videos. And the reason why they're covering the Planned Parenthood videos is not because they're so gruesome and horrifying and exposes the human soul, is that they're covering it because they claim she made an error. Her mistake, which was, she -- which she described, literally happened. It was a living baby writhing in pain before death. And they're saying, well, that was -- that wasn't part of the actual video. Well, was in the video when she described it aptly. But the great thing is that.
RIVERA: They say it's a miscarriage.
GUTFELD: Yeah, but it was there -- no, it was abortion -- it was a baby torn from the womb. Her -- but her mistake warrants discussion of baby dismemberment, but the videos of baby dismemberment do not warrant discussion.
PERINO: Right.
GUTFELD: Among the mainstream media. So, that shows you how morally bankrupt and disgusting our media is. That it takes the mistake of a republican candidate to get you to face something so awful that's going on in this world. It's amazing and that's why this is a special candidate.
PERINO: And once you started to see already women that support Hillary Clinton, putting out there that she scares me.
GUTFELD: Yes, of course.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Nobody's going to look at that video, but you got to look at that video and you got to see the baby. And you've got to ask yourself, what kind of world do you want to live in, when you look at that baby? Do you want to be part of a world that is OK with that? And I don't even care if you're a left winger or right winger, communist, socialist, anarchist, agnostic, atheist, vegan, if you don't.
PERINO: Vegan?
GUILFOYLE: If you aren't sick to your stomach when you see that, then you're.
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: You're getting a little far afield from how Carly did at the debate, I.
GUTFELD: No, she got to be able to talk about Planned Parenthood.
RIVERA: I did a survey on my radio show, which exactly syncs up with the survey that drudge did, in a much larger field. And the other three, I don't know about the New Hampshire poll that Dana said, but in our survey.
PERINO: Right.
RIVERA: Carly is now at about 25 percent. Everybody else is single digits. Trump is twice her at 50 or plus, 50 percent. So I don't.
PERINO: In your radio show poll?
RIVERA: My radio show polls drudge and the other the three.
BOLLING: TIME magazine.
RIVERA: TIME magazine, they're all have Trump over 50. They have Carly in the mid-20s and everybody else in single digits.
GUILFOYLE: Nevertheless, with Carly said and then calling out, you know Planned Parenthood is like the Dr. Frankenstein of family planning is a memorable moment for the entire election piece.
RIVERA: I agree.
GUILFOYLE: And it was a standout from the debate. That's fearless. She's courageous.
Still to come, Facebook Friday, but up next, the one of the NFL's biggest stars takes on the Black Lives Matter movement, Richard Sherman, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: He's one of the most out spoken players in the NFL and Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman is sounding off again, this time on the Black Lives Matter movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD SHERMAN, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS CORNERBACK: As a black man, I do understand that black lives matter. I also think that there's a way to go about things and there's a way to do things. And I think the issue at hand needs to be addressed internally before we move on. You know with a best friend getting killed and it was two 35-year-old black men. You know, and when no police officer involved, where there wasn't anybody involved and I didn't hear anybody shouting black lives matter then. If black lives matter, then they should matter all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And the Grammy award winning Rapper Wale is also chiming in on the movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALE, RAPPER: It starts with us, you know I'm saying. It's been easy to just blame other people for stuff like that, like you know, and point the finger. But like you know, black lives should matter to black lives. And I want us to realize that the part that we got within ourselves are to love ourselves more is really like should be the first objective, as far as understanding the whole black lives thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right, K.G., the black -- African-American community pushing back because they don't want to be involved in the Black Lives Matter movement.
GUILFOYLE: Good for them. Good for them. Stand up for what's right. They know it's ridiculous. Like the truth of the matter is they're more in danger from black on black crime than they are from a police officer that you call to help you when you're in danger in your own community, community that are played by drugs and violence and thugs and gangs. Like who -- everybody wants a cop then, believe me. And if the cops weren't there doing their jobs, these communities would be even worse, there would be more lives lost. And so I applaud them because they're in positions of influence to be able to say something like this. They're not like cowering in the corner afraid of like the politically correct saying, oh, you're making a statement. That's racist. You're against black. This is -- so refreshing. Good for him.
BOLLING: Geraldo?
RIVERA: You know I criticized Kendrick Lamar, another former rapper, bigger than Wale. I would suggest who opened the BET awards show with the -- but on stage, re-creation of a video, very much I thought, promoting violence against cops. He had a guy on top of a police cruiser and he was hit, he smashed it. Kendrick Lamar just came out and said, "When we don't have respect for ourselves, how do we expect them to respect us. It starts from within." You know, so I think that there is the beginning now of a countermovement. I saw one of the greatest billboards, a black businessman in Memphis, Tennessee: "Black lives matter. That's why we should stop killing each other."
I think that it will get traction. I think the Black Lives Matter will come to include the -- in terms of number, the much more serious problem of black-on-black crime.
BOLLING: So is there a point for Black Lives Matter? I mean, is there -- what's the purpose?
PERINO: Well, I think one of the things that is of a concern, is that remember, if you go back to Ferguson, Missouri, and the "hands up, don't shoot," which was then proven in the investigation to be based on a lie, I think that -- I love what these guys say -- are saying now. It would have been helpful to try to get ahead of the movement and try to say something back then.
But I think that -- that the group is expressing grievances, but they're not asking for anything specific. So even when the Democratic National Committee gets together for their meeting before Hillary Clinton's speech and passes a resolution endorsing what the group says that they're worried about, and the group walks away and says it's not good enough, I don't know what else can be done.
BOLLING: Is there a purpose? I'm trying -- I'm still trying to figure it out.
GUTFELD: I think every movement has legitimate, caring people in it, just as they do flakes.
We just did an "A" block on Trump, where we talked about how there's some great people in Trump -- who like Trump, and there are also flakes. And with the Black Lives movement, it so happens that their flakes oftentimes preach death. And that's scary when you hear them talking about dead cops and then claiming they're joking.
But the fact is, what -- I think what I'm -- what I would gain from this topic is that everybody has to reject groupthink. Whether they're on the right and they like Trump, or whether they're in Black Lives Matter.
Everybody -- nobody has to -- we don't all have to think the same. And you don't alienate people by putting them in boxes. I mean, the fact is, you know, there are people who think, you know, people who like country music are white hillbillies; and there are people who think if they listen to rap they must be thugs. It's neither. Thugging -- thugging is age and not race related. It's young men who are bad, who commit the bad things. It's not black or white.
And if you look at people like hip-hop stars or rap stars, Puffy Combs or Kanye West, let's face it: they have more in common with the capitalistic values that you would find in the Republican Party than you would in the politics of victimization. So that's what you're seeing, is you're pro- football players and successful entertainers saying, "Look, individual responsibility, values like that matter."
BOLLING: And that's what young African-American kids should be looking up to, successful people. Athletes, rap stars instead of Black Lives Matter...
RIVERA: Nuclear scientists.
BOLLING: Let me ask you, Geraldo. This -- does this have legs, this movement?
RIVERA: Well, I'm so glad you asked me that, Eric. Because although we have made the point now that by -- in terms of numbers, by far the most serious problem in the black community is other young black men.
But that does not for a second deny the reality that many black mothers fear cops as much as they feel crooks when their kids go out at night, because too many young black men are killed by authority figures.
We have to -- it is by far a much smaller problem than the problem of black people killing black people. But we can't ignore it. That's where Black Lives Matter originated.
You know, it may very well be, as Dana says, Ferguson was based on a lie. Trayvon Martin, you know, in those circumstances, maybe all of us, if we were like Zimmerman, would have shot the kid on that rainy night. I don't know.
All I do know is that too many black kids get killed by cops. That's not to suggest that -- I say it a million times, so please, don't bombard me with your cards and letters. By far, the biggest problem is young black men killing other young black men.
GUTFELD: There will be no cards and letters.
RIVERA: Thank you.
PERINO: Cards and letters? I was like...
GUILFOYLE: So 19th Century.
BOLLING: There will be a lot of e-mails this weekend.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: All right. Got to go right now.
Still ahead, Facebook Friday. But next, new developments on the Syrian refugee crisis, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RIVERA: Welcome back to "The Five."
The White House says the United States will take in as many as 10,000 Syrian refugees next year. We must help ease the heart-breaking humanitarian crisis, but I admit to having deep concerns, like many of you, about the plight (ph), because our good intentions have backfired before.
Remember when we granted refugee status to tens of thousands fleeing the chaos and violence in war-torn Somalia? Violence that I saw up close and personally a few years back.
Most of those Somali refugees, law-and-order people, settled around the Twin Cities in Minnesota. But some did not stay there. Between 2008 and 2013, as many as 40 Somali young men left the United States to go back to Africa and Asia to join the terror network Al-Shabaab.
Now there are pretty reliable reports that ISIS is also recruiting among that population in the Twin Cities. And I'm not the only one with concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I don't, obviously, put it past the likes of ISIL to infiltrate operatives among these refugees. So that is a huge concern of ours.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R), WISCONSIN: We're a compassionate nation, but we've got to fully vet the individuals that we would take in.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIR: From a national security standpoint, I take ISIS at its word when they said in their own words that "we'll use and exploit the refugee crisis to infiltrate the West." That concerns me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERA: You know, Kimberly...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
RIVERA: ... we see the refugee crisis and these desperate people fleeing, and of course, the dead 3-year-old on the beach in Turkey, and it breaks all our hearts. How do we help without endangering our own national security?
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, we have an obligation, obviously, to help. We have to do so with responsibility. That doesn't, you know, weaken our own position here on our shores of our national security.
I mean, be smart about it. Why wouldn't you want to take them at their word, when they tell you that they were going to exploit this opportunity?
RIVERA: What are we going to do?
GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, you've got to be very careful before -- you have to really screen people before you let them in. Sorry. You can't just -- once they're in, they're in.
And as you mentioned in Minnesota, this isn't just, like, speculative. There are serious intel reports about tremendous recruiting in that area. You know people have gone to Al Shabaab. Right? And now ISIS is going to use this opportunity, too.
And we're going to say, when this turns out poorly, "Oh, we should have known better. We had the warning, and we didn't do anything about it."
RIVERA: Germany has taken half a million.
BOLLING: I -- I love you; I disagree with you. I think there's no way to really screen these people. All the politicians are on TV, are saying on both sides of the aisle, we need to take them in. We just have to make sure where they're come -- we don't know. We don't know what...
GUILFOYLE: I'm not saying take anybody unless we know.
BOLLING: Geraldo correctly points out that they're either radicalized here, or they may have been radicalized there first and...
GUILFOYLE: Coming back.
BOLLING: ... welcoming them back on our soil is a fool's mistake.
Two other refugees, Chechens from the Boston bombing -- Marathon bombers, also refugees.
I say there's a solution to it. Yes, be humanitarian. Be humanitarian with the dollar, not with the land.
GUILFOYLE: We're not saying something different.
RIVERA: And one thing, we all remember ship of fools, the Jewish ship of refugees from Europe?
BOLLING: You don't bring them here.
GUILFOYLE: I say we need to do something. And it's, like...
(CROSSTALK)
RIVERA: They came to this country. They were rejected. They weren't allowed to land. They went back to Europe, and they died. I mean, where does our conscience lead us on this?
PERINO: I think we're -- we keep talking about the wrong thing, which is that diplomacy actually should be utilized here.
Where in the world is President Obama, Susan Rice and Samantha Power, who - - and those two are experts. Samantha Power and Susan Rice very well versed in refugee issues, having dwelt with the Rwanda crisis and then Bosnia.
So this is an entirely predictable thing that is happening. There are four million refugees. We're talking about 10,000. And agreed, of course there would have to be some sort of surveillance.
But what we really should be focused on is solving this problem at the source.
RIVERA: I agree.
PERINO: And you have to figure out, do you think that they want to leave their homes? No. Do you think they want to, like, crowd into those buses. Absolutely not. They want to take care of their families. They're fleeing, because they are being attacked with mustard gas and chemical weapons and nail barrel bombs by their own leader, and we did nothing then. And we should be held accountable for that.
RIVERA: Well said. But Greg, isn't the solution to end the civil war in Syria? Shouldn't we be on Russia's side? This isn't helping end the civil war.
GUTFELD: But do you know what? You know what? I have to say, because Obama has left the building, he's chasing climate change and golf balls...
GUILFOYLE: Valerie Jarrett is there.
GUTFELD: He's actually made Putin the world's policeman. It's not -- I mean, he's the only world leader that makes us choose between Putin, a murderous dictator, Assad, and ISIS. The least -- the least damaging of the three is Vladimir. And if Vladimir can actually fix it, fine. But that's what happens when you decide to forfeit your place as the world's policeman. There should only be one, and it should be us.
RIVERA: Smart people at this table. Stay right where you are.
GUTFELD: I wouldn't go that far.
RIVERA: "Facebook Friday" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC: "THEME SONG FROM 'LAVERNE & SHIRLEY')
GUTFELD: Yes, it's "Facebook Friday." I've got your questions, and we've got the answers.
GUILFOYLE: I know. It's, like, cold in here.
GUTFELD: Kimberly...
GUILFOYLE: What?
GUTFELD: ... keep it together.
First question from Vicki H.: "Who would be your dream interview?" You don't say me.
GUILFOYLE: Trust me.
GUTFELD: All right. OK.
GUILFOYLE: But you know what? You actually -- I love Winston Churchill. And you said Winston -- you said the ghost of Winston Churchill.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: But can you imagine a better interview than Winston Churchill?
GUTFELD: No. It would be great.
GUILFOYLE: I'm not kidding you, I think it would be fantastic. And I would love to ask him his viewpoints and thoughts on ISIS and the Syrian refugees and about the vacuum of leadership that has been created by the United States right now.
GUTFELD: The vacuum of leadership.
RIVERA: The first extraterrestrial or Elvis.
GUTFELD: Terrific. I thought you were going to be Al Capone. Say, "What? Who's in there? Who was in there?"
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
RIVERA: I already chased him. And El Chapo.
BOLLING: El Chapo.
GUILFOYLE: I think he's on the Voyager.
RIVERA: He's on my boat, right?
GUTFELD: Eric.
BOLLING: So dead or alive?
GUTFELD: Yes. Do you mean the band Dead or Alive?
BOLLING: No, dead would be Ronald Reagan.
GUILFOYLE: You mean Bon Jovi?
BOLLING: I would love to sit down and hear his thoughts. But I would like to know, like to interview him now.
GUTFELD: Of course you did. Get him, Geraldo.
RIVERA: Got him right here.
GUILFOYLE: Wait, where is the interview?
BOLLING: And living would be -- I'd like to sit down with Jon Stewart.
GUTFELD: Interesting.
RIVERA: Jon Stewart? I bet you could. Just ask him.
BOLLING: No, he won't. Come on.
GUILFOYLE: Aww.
GUTFELD: Dana.
PERINO: Well, I don't have a show, so I can't interview anyone.
GUILFOYLE: What, am I chopped liver?
PERINO: I'm going to say something -- someone I will never get to interview.
GUTFELD: Who?
PERINO: Hillary Clinton.
GUTFELD: That's good.
BOLLING: Nice, nice.
PERINO: I would love to ask her some questions. In a very respectful way.
GUTFELD: That's actually pretty funny, because I actually didn't think about it. I was going to say Alan Colmes.
RIVERA: Alan Colmes?
GUTFELD: Yes. But...
RIVERA: You meet him in the elevator every day.
GUTFELD: ... now I'm thinking about Obama.
But you know the best interview I ever did? I interviewed -- my dream interview I already did, which was a leper. I interviewed a leper, a guy with leprosy, like 10, 15 years ago. Jose...
GUILFOYLE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
GUTFELD: No, but what a great guy. He caught it from armadillo feces. All right.
RIVERA: Doesn't everybody?
GUTFELD: It's true.
GUILFOYLE: Only you.
GUTFELD: So we're going to start...
GUILFOYLE: That was really good.
GUTFELD: Oh, this is great. Great question. Now we'll go this way. Dana, from Jebbie A...
PERINO: Of course.
GUTFELD: "Which candidate would you choose to run their campaign and why?"
PERINO: Meaning I would run their campaign?
GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, yes.
PERINO: I don't want to run a campaign.
GUTFELD: Well...
PERINO: This is the question?
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Out of the candidates that we have?
GUTFELD: Just pick a candidate.
PERINO: I don't know. Whoever runs against Corbin in the U.K.
GUTFELD: Very good. Interesting.That's a switchy answer.
BOLLING: So I would love to help Mr. Trump out with his wall.
PERINO: You're helping.
BOLLING: Many times we've talked about there is a way...
GUILFOYLE: Came up with the money.
BOLLING: ... to get Mexico to pay for the wall. It's a simple plan, took me 30 seconds to do it here. And it would work.
GUILFOYLE: Did he get back to you?
BOLLING: No.
PERINO: Would it take 30 seconds for Mexico to sell it to another country, though?
BOLLING: It would cost them more...
GUILFOYLE: They would sell it to ISIS.
BOLLING: No, they can't. It costs them more to transport it to China or Japan. It's free for them to put it right through a pipeline right into us.
RIVERA: I would also like to represent Trump as his spokesman, because I would take him in a different direction then Eric. I would get rid of that notion, that farcical notion of the wall and spend that money on bridges and tunnels and highway.
BOLLING: You could use the money for whatever you want. A wall or a border.
RIVERA: But I think that he still has a possibility of moderating those positions.
GUTFELD: Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: I would take Carly in a heartbeat. We've got the same mindset. Not about the "X" chromosome.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Running a campaign is hard.
BOLLING: What, you?
GUTFELD: Definitely Jeb, because I'm an establishment RINO.
PERINO: Well, the question was from Jebbie.
GUTFELD: Yes. All right. Next one. No, I would probably -- I think the most fun you would have is Trump, because Trump needs the most help. He really needs a guy -- he needs -- I go on the show every day and try to give him advice, hoping he'll listen, but he doesn't.
GUILFOYLE: He really needs the help.
GUTFELD: He needs the help!
GUILFOYLE: No. 1 in the polls.
RIVERA: We've got to find him. Where is he?
GUTFELD: Yes. Where is he?
GUILFOYLE: The Voyager.
GUTFELD: John P. asks -- John P. asks, "What is your worst" -- this is interesting. "What is your worst bad habit?" Eric. Don't say, "I care too much."
GUILFOYLE: I know what it is.
BOLLING: No, no.
GUILFOYLE: I know what it is. Like, I can't say what some of them are. But...
BOLLING: Well, you can say whatever.
GUILFOYLE: ... using vodka as toothpaste.
BOLLING: It could be -- my worst bad habit. Yes. Maybe if I go out and have a couple of cocktails, I don't stop when I should stop, perhaps.
GUTFELD: As long as you don't drive.
BOLLING: I don't drive.
GUILFOYLE: He doesn't.
BOLLING: I take a car service.
GUTFELD: Geraldo.
BOLLING: Last night, I took the car service.
RIVERA: I stay up too late, and I have a morning job.
GUTFELD: You know what? You stay up too late, and you tweet yourself half-naked. You left out the best part.
RIVERA: That happens. I also combine staying up too late with Eric's problem.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: And the tweeting problem. Put them all together.
GUILFOYLE: Nice.
GUTFELD: Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Probably staying up too late and then waking up and then not really sleeping. And then checking my e-mails and reading Dana's articles she sends. And then being exhausted. And then -- it's a vicious circle.
PERINO: Checking Twitter too much.
GUTFELD: Yes, that's bad.
GUILFOYLE: You both do that.
GUTFELD: That's true.
PERINO: Like, whatever. I just pick up the phone. And Twitter is my -- the phone is my cigarette.
GUTFELD: There you go.
PERINO: I keep picking it up.
GUTFELD: That sounds like a country and Western song.
RIVERA: That is a great line.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: I'm going to Nashville next week.
GUTFELD: There you go. You know what my worst bad habit is?
GUILFOYLE: There's a lot.
GUTFELD: Worst bad. OK? That means it's actually a good habit. The worst bad habit, I go to the gym and I work out every morning. That's my worst bad habit.
RIVERA: Boring.
GUTFELD: When you're going to write a question, you've got to make sure it makes sense (ph).
BOLLING: Sketchy. Sketchy, Gutfeld.
GUTFELD: You just screwed it up.
All right. Do I have time? No?
GUILFOYLE: "Facebook Friday" is nasty (ph).
GUTFELD: "One More Thing," up next.
(MUSIC: "THEME FROM 'MARY TYLER MOORE'")
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing," something you have been waiting for. Greg's "One More Thing."
GUTFELD: Yay. All right, my new book is coming out. It's called "How to Be Right." It's basically how to teach you how to be persuasively correct when you're discussing various issues. It's going to be out in a month. Of course where there's a book there's the bus.
I'll be going everywhere. I'll be going to New York? That doesn't make sense. Indiana, Michigan, Texas, Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, back to Texas. Then I'll be doing the Reagan Library, and I'll be doing the Nixon Library. And if you buy my book, you will also get bumper stickers.
Look at this. I am like -- I'm like Bill O'Reilly. I'm like Bill O'Reilly.
BOLLING: Should do the Clinton Library, too.
GUTFELD: I should do the Clinton Library. You just don't want to be alone in the stacks for that.
RIVERA: I was there for the opening.
GUTFELD: Anyway...
PERINO: To be with us (ph).
GUTFELD: Go to GGutfeld.com.
Way to take that.
PERINO: Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: OK, now we're done with that weird thing.
OK. So this is one of my happiest days ever, because it is National Cheeseburger Day. I've been looking forward to this all day.
BOLLING: That's why we needed that.
GUILFOYLE: I started to already eat my prop, and I'm going to finish it. This is how you help celebrate with me.
You go to your favorite local eatery, wherever your favorite burger place is. You order a cheeseburger. You down it, enjoy it, maybe have a Bloody Mary with some lives, extra olives on the side.
And also, don't forget, while I feast on this, that I'm going to be on with the Greg Gutfeld...
GUTFELD: Oh, yes.
GUILFOYLE: ... Saturday night, baby, 10 p.m. Eastern. Don't miss it. It's going to be amazing. I'm predicting high ratings.
GUTFELD: Yes, it might be the cheeseburger.
BOLLING: I'm Snapchatting this, too, by the way.
GUTFELD: It's a good point. It's on Saturday and Sunday. It's the same show Saturday and Sunday.
PERINO: Two shows. That's amazing. I love it. OK. I'm going to watch that. Eric, you're next.
BOLLING: So I just Snapchatted that. You can check it out, EB2016, to check out that video of Kimberly chowing down that burger.
OK, tonight, 8 p.m., I'll be hosting "The O'Reilly Factor," the 2016 special. We're going to talk about Planned Parenthood, whether they should shut down the government to defund it or not. Trump's town hall, Carly's rise, Hillary's fall, and who's up and who's down. So check it out, and don't forget to DVR it.
PERINO: OK. I don't have anything to promote, but I have something about a dog.
OK. This is Phoebe. Check it out. It's a 4-year-old Bassett Hound. She's from Vashon, Washington. She escaped her house early last week. The door was left open. She went wondering. She got trapped in a concrete cistern.
And this is her best friend, Tilly, a, 11-year-old Setter who went every day. And she would sit with her, and then she would go and try to find help.
A nonprofit animal rescue organization called Vashon Island Pet Protectors posted photos. They actually found -- Tilly was able to get help. And now everybody is reunited.
GUTFELD: This is staged.
PERINO: I don't think it's staged. It's a really true story.
GUTFELD: I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
PERINO: Don't you think it's great?
RIVERA: A sweet story. Very sweet.
PERINO: All right. Thank you. There was no tape there.
BOLLING: Of course.
PERINO: I wasn't there. Geraldo, you're up.
RIVERA: I've got plenty of tape.
People say that Donald Trump doesn't have any foreign policy cred. But he really does. I've known him for decades, as you know. In 2000, there was talk of him running for president as a Democrat. I interviewed him in 2005. And this is six years before we pulled out of Iraq. Here's Trump six years before we pulled out. Here's Trump in 2005.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let's see what happens in Iraq. I mean, when we leave Iraq, how long do you think you're going to see a democratic state? Do you think it's going to stay that way?
RIVERA: I don't know.
TRUMP: Well, we're going to find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERA: See, he knew -- he knew then it was going to hell in a hand basket.
PERINO: He knew that Obama was coming, pretty much early?
RIVERA: He's a lot wiser than you think about him?
BOLLING: Where do you keep all this old tape?
RIVERA: In Al Capone's vault.
GUTFELD: In the vault.
GUILFOYLE: Brother Craig has it.
RIVERA: In El Chapo's tunnel.
PERINO: All right. Set your DVRs...
RIVERA: Plenty of room. It's in my (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PERINO: ... so you never miss an episode of this show, "The Five." That's it for us. Have a great weekend, everybody. "Special Report" is next.
GUILFOYLE: Love it.
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