Presidential debate advice from 'The Five'
Republican hopefuls set to square off for round two
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 16, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
The second prime time GOP debate of 2016 is just three hours away, and the stakes are getting higher with the first election contest growing closer. What can we expect in round two? This hour, our predictions and our two cents for the 11 candidates. But first, a quick look back at some of the highlights from round one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Is there anyone on stage, and can I see hands, who is unwilling tonight to pledge your support to the eventual nominee of the Republican Party, and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person?
SEN. RAND PAUL, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't trust President Obama with our records. I know you gave him a big hug, and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Paul, you know the hugs I remember are the hugs I gave to the families who lost their people on September 11th.
PAUL: I think you're on the wrong side of this if you're still arguing for a single payer.
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think you heard me. You're having a hard time tonight.
JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm proud of my dad. And I'm certainly proud of my brother. In Florida, they call me Jeb because I earned it.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think God has blessed us. He has blessed the Republican Party with some very good candidates. The Democrats cannot even find one.
BEN CARSON, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very hopeful I'm not the only one who is willing to pick up the baton of freedom because freedom is not free, and we must fight for it every day.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: Campaign Carl Cameron joins us now to help us kick-off our coverage of the big event live from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. Carl, I know you have been out there all day. So set the stage for us. How are things shaping up?
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS: Well, the campaign is -- the candidates have been trickling through the spin room actually in advance of the debate. Just a short time ago, Ben Carson came through. And he was immediately mobbed by the cameras and folks asked him again, as an outsider, with no experience, how can you be commander-in-chief? How can you run the country? And he quite simply said it doesn't take experience, it takes common sense and I'll be surrounded by wise people. And that has gotten him into a tie nationally on some polls, or a virtual tie within the margin of error with Donald Trump.
And Iowa and New Hampshire now, there are polls that show Carson has moved into a virtual tie with Trump as the front-runner. So we have a two-person outsider campaign at the top of the roster of 11. And then an absolute battle between the other eight, Carly Fiorina has ascended to the top tier. So she gets that outside r status, too. So there are three of them. But the other eight candidates have been mired in the low single digits since the last debate. All of them pushed down there because of the ascent of both Trump and Carson.
PERINO: Before we kick it around the table, Carl, could you set up -- there is another debate, an earlier debate, and do you expect anything to come out of that.
CAMERON: Well, it will only be four candidates participating in that one because Carly Fiorina has jumped up to the top tier and Rick Perry has left the race. We're given to understand that Rick Santorum, the Pennsylvania senator, who won the 2008 Iowa caucuses, is coming ready to fight. In large measure because it's a small roster in the earlier afternoon debate and there will be enough time. Part of what's going to happen tonight on the big stage is 11 candidates standing next to one another for what could be three hours, means that fatigue, even a bathroom break, could be a real distraction and distracted on a campaign debate stage could lead to sloppiness and/or miscues. So the sheer length of it tonight is something to watch.
PERINO: All right. That's a good thing to watch. Kimberly, we'll start with you.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: We saw some complaints about that already, about the length of it. But they're already trying to make a distinction from the Fox News debate in terms of their strategy and their approach for tonight to be able to try to make it as successful as ours was. Tell us about that, Carl.
CAMERON: Yes. Well, the moderators have made it very clear that they will pose questions to the candidates specifically intended to cause a fight between them. So they'll ask Huckabee a question about what Donald Trump said or they'll ask Ben Carson about what Carly Fiorina said, in order to pit them against one another. That could raise lots of fireworks. And, again, patience is going to be a key strategy tonight. The candidates on the fringes of the roster, the ones who are back in the polls, might get impatient if they don't get their fair share of questions and could react.
And it is well to know that one of the questioners tonight will be Hugh Hewitt, the syndicated radio host who tripped up Trump with his foreign policy questions in that radio interview. Trump said they were gotcha questions, an awful a lot of people said they were pretty standardized questions. That's something that could play into this as well in addition to the other CNN officials. This will be the first Republican debate where the RNC had suggested that the hosts include a conservative journalist in order to make sure that the questions really do focus on the issues that Republicans care about.
PERINO: All right. Juan Williams?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Carl, I'm glad to see you got the memo on the tie. I think it's so interesting you talked about the outsiders. I'm sort of interested in an insider, Jeb Bush. He has been slipping in those polls since the first debate. The question is now what does he have to do tonight?
CAMERON: He has to show that he's plausible, that he can stand up to Donald Trump, and not necessarily be made to look small by one of Trump's one-liner, show stopping insults. The other aspect to remember about this is that Jeb Bush, the pedigree he has, standing in the Reagan Library can talk about his dad's service with Ronald Reagan. He can talk about his brother's service to the country as president. And this could be one of the opportunities where his heritage could end up being an asset.
The 11th Commandment as annunciated by Ronald Reagan was thou shall not speak ill of another Republican. We're given to understand there will be a lot of ill speaking about one another tonight. And it will be interesting to see if anybody says look, Ronald Reagan, the Gipper, wouldn't go into the Oval Office without a jack and tie. There was a reverence and a respect to the office to which all of these candidates aspire. And if the name calling and the violation of the 11th Commandment gets too abrasive, it's entirely possible that one of them will stand up and say hey, you are not living up to the legacy of Ronald Reagan. This is not the building to be talking like that. We need to show the American people that we are prepared to lead the country instead of beat up one another.
PERINO: All right. Now to Eric Bolling.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: All right, Carl. Do you want to play a little game with me here?
CAMERON: I can try.
BOLLING: Three questions, your choices are over or under. Love the numbers. OK. So 30 is my number for the amount of times -- number of times that Ronald Reagan or the Gipper's name is invoked. Over or under?
CAMERON: Under. And then the college kids and the drinking games are going to be dangerous places. Watch out for the campus.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I am going to 30 and over. How about 15 million, the amount of people who will watch tonight?
CAMERON: Under. I think it will be larger, at least for the first couple hours. But when we get past 11 o'clock, I think it will probably be much lower.
BOLLING: And the important one. Number of candidates that take a shot at Donald Trump tonight thinking that that's the best tactic to get on the screen?
CAMERON: Probably all but three. Maybe three candidates will not get around to it or will choose not to take the bait or will decide for them, it's more important to rise above it, and try to be a plausible president, instead of a name caller.
BOLLING: All right. Thank you.
PERINO: All right. I'm glad you didn't ask me over, under. I never actually really understood that whole betting thing. Your turn.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Over and under means something totally different where I come from.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Over or under, Carl.
GUTFELD: Look, the candidates, Carl, they're on stage. There are so many of them. They are actually only 20 inches apart. So how important is hygiene?
CAMERON: Well, hygiene and language and expressions. I mean, look, a lot of times you see in these cutaway shots. The two candidates who are going after each other, they will put them on a split screen. Any candidate who looks at his watch, as George H. Bush once famously did, any candidate who rolls his or her eyes or as John Kerry and Al Gore used to do, huffing and sighing, this sort of stuff. That is a disaster. They have to appear presidential. They have to appear calm. They have to appear to have it together tonight. And show they are plausible presidents. Donald Trump has introduced a new kind of political rhetoric, a new kind of tone and tenor to all of this stuff.
Debates don't always lend themselves to that. You can win an argument. And then the next day, people can wake up and say both of the people in the argument ended up looking bad.
GUTFELD: Hey, Carl, follow up. Do you think that birtherism is going to come up? I predict it will be the first question to Donald Trump.
CAMERON: If it is and he answers it, it will be the first time he's actually done so. He's been asked about his questioning of the president's birth place and birth certificate a number of times during this campaign. And he has consistently said I don't want to talk about that. But it's well to note during the 2012 and 2008 campaigns, Donald Trump was one of the people who were leading the questions about Mr. Obama's heritage and birth place.
PERINO: All right. Thank you, Carl. We're excited to watch tonight.
CAMERON: You bet.
PERINO: All right. Don't miss the strongest post-debate analysis on television right here on the Fox News Channel starting at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.
Ahead, you will hear some of the candidates themselves, talking strategy for round two. That's next on The Five.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Back now with more on the big debate tonight. Here are six of the candidates on their plans for the second face-off of 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARSON: I don't think that my strategy is going to change at all. It's going to be to tell the truth and to talk about, you know, my vision for America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a chance to usher in the greatest era in America's history. This is not a game show. It's not a production. It is, in fact, deciding the most important political office in the world.
TRUMP: I'm going to mix it up because I like to rumble, and I like to make sure people know the differences between the candidates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to see that passion, they want to see you have a real plan and real solutions, and that provides the contrast to anybody else out there.
CARLY FIORINA, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Mr. Trump is going to be hearing quite a lot from me. I think my standards are what the American people would appreciate.
TRUMP: The debate, I hear they're all going after me. Whatever. Whatever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: OK. Whatever. You know what? I bet you they all do have a Trump strategy.
PERINO: You better. He's a front-runner. Of course, you have to have a strategy.
BOLLING: He also said, Dana, that he won't take a shot first.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: That's good. I think that Trump -- the best thing he could do is take shots at Obama and Hillary. That would be the smartest thing for him to show that I don't have to worry about these guys. I'm going after the main event.
GUILFOYLE: Like go on the offensive.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: And then if somebody comes after him, of course, he's going to counter punch, but he is not going to be one to go after him. He is not going to be offensive with the other candidates.
PERINO: He doesn't need to.
BOLLING: Who -- we talked about Scott Walker needing a big debate night tonight. Who else needs a big debate?
GUTFELD: Bush. Can I just point out the problem here is with the happy hour table. Carly did great on the first debate because the rest were so glum. But now, that she's left, it's like Blondie without Debbie Harry. It's like you're staring at the table of four (exes). I just understand if anybody is going to watch this. I think everybody should watch Special Report instead.
BOLLING: Yeah. It's a good idea.
GUILFOYLE: Very sweet of you.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: But then, how will we talk about the debate. I will watch it.
GUTFELD: Yes. You watch it for us.
PERINO: OK.
BOLLING: So you said Jeb Bush. What does he need to do? Clearly pump up the volume, but what else?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's a very interesting thing. As Carl Cameron was saying, it's the home of Ronald Reagan. You don't have the big audience, so it's a lot of insiders. And for his donors right now, they are a little bit anxious about what's going on with Jeb Bush. So he's got to demonstrate command, leadership, the ability to hold, and be present on that stage in a way that distinguishes himself from Trump without getting into a school yard back and forth.
PERINO: I don't disagree, but can I add one?
BECKEL: Yeah.
PERINO: Governor Kasich.
BOLLING: Yeah.
PERINO: He needs to have a big debate because he holds his own. He's a great governor, a really good record. He made it just barely into that debate -- well, just because he announced late. He did OK. The question for him is scale. Can he scale up his campaign in order to compete a little bit more?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: This is one of the issues for Kasich and for some of the others is people don't know who they are.
PERINO: Right.
WILLIAMS: We do at this table, but nobody knows who John Kasich is. Kasich is a direct threat by the way, Dana, to Jeb Bush.
PERINO: Yeah, sure, of course.
WILLIAMS: Because he's a sitting governor with a record.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: And to Marco Rubio. Establishment ties going on there. Can I throw up.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: . a tea party candidate. I don't think you can call him establishment.
BOLLING: I think he's pretty well seen as establishment.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: He ran and won as a tea party candidate.
BOLLING: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: The problem with the Republican Party is there are factions that are constantly labeling each side as a way to get an edge. And it actually does a disservice to a lot of these candidates. For example, I believe that the candidate that does very well is the one that points out who is moving left. Who is for higher taxes? Who is for a trade war? Who is for eminent domain? Who is for not tearing up the Iran deal?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Who could that be?
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: No labels there. I call him a rhino.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: If they all do that, what happens? The person who gets -- it's Trump obviously.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: But my point is that's actually a legitimate debate point. You might say that's bashing but you have to say, OK, is your Republican candidate moving left?
BOLLING: That's not what I'm saying. If they point out what would be perceived as flaws to the conservative base, if they do that, he gets 30 seconds to respond and if it continues back and forth, he can respond a second time.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: You're going to end up having 2 hours and 40 minutes, and half of it will be Donald Trump.
GUTFELD: But that's a debate. You have to actually debate over the issues, over taxes for example. Do you favor taxing the rich more? Do you favor a trade war? Do you favor eminent domain? Tearing up the Iran deal or not tearing it up? These are actual questions to be raised.
BOLLING: No doubt.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: . They need to be raised by Republicans, especially if you think that as a Republican, you see your party moving left.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: They've got great opportunities tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Well, yeah, why not? I mean, earn it. Get up there, perform. Show us that you've got what it takes, you've got the specifics. Shoot them down one at a time. This is the best opportunity somebody could have, but I'm looking for Rubio and Walker and Christie and even Rand Paul. They're going to mix it up, they're going to come in strong. I'm curious to see how Carly will do. I think she's very steady. She's strong. I expect like Ben Carson to be the same that he was last time, but remember the last week, people were talking about how well Rubio did. Let's see what he does. They better do something because people are slipping in the polls. They better take away some of the chunk away.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: And there's somebody we've not even mentioned. And he's got a decent following and that's Governor Huckabee. He needs to have a really good debate.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. There are a lot of them.
BOLLING: Can we do a little prediction here? What is this, September 16th.
GUILFOYLE: Does it involve money again?
BOLLING: Halloween. How many of the 11 on the stage are still going to be in the race five or six weeks from now?
WILLIAMS: I think they're all still here because the money.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: The financial structure is such that they can all hang around. Who should be in the race may be the better point.
BOLLING: So you think these 11 will still be here.
WILLIAMS: They'll still be here.
GUILFOYLE: You have people that are going to drop out that are in the earlier debates.
BOLLING: I'm talking about these 11.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: I don't know. I think they're still going to be.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I would love to see -- I would love to see at least four or five go because when you have 11 people on stage, you rely on moments and not articulation. Everybody is thinking like a pundit, like how can I come up with that one little hot spot that will be memorable as opposed to articulating a persuasive argument about a specific issue. And you don't get that. Ironically, it's the people at the 6 o'clock show that will be able to articulate.
WILLIAMS: OK. So let me ask you a question, so you're the moderator, right? Do you ask substantive questions and does the audience care?
PERINO: Oh, I hope so.
GUILFOYLE: What?
BOLLING: The audience will care, but again, from the CNN side, or from the Donald Trump side, if Donald gets what he wants, I think he'll get exactly what Greg points out. Where everyone starts picking apart the things people don't like about him because the guy -- he loves the camera. He loves to get the attention.
WILLIAMS: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: And that raises another question. How about Ted Cruz? Will he stand there and hold Donald's jacket?
WILLIAMS: That's about it, Jack. But you know, the question is the audience tuning in for anything, but the Trump show? Are they looking for real substantive solutions, policies?
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Look, you have to admit the reason -- well, I picked 15. We have a little side thing going on here. I said 15 million people are going to watch. You say 20 million. If it wasn't Donald Trump on the stage, would it be 20 million?
WILLIAMS: No, of course, not.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: It's not a face-off, it's a persona off.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but remember, Hugh Hewitt, you know, the conservative that stand in his broad hand, he said this is going to be a substantive debate about foreign policy and national security.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: You can't do a non-substantive debate for three hours. I mean, that's a long time to do cotton candy.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, remember those?
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Are we good?
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Somebody call the Kurds.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: One of the moderators tonight has tipped off the candidates he plans to ask tough questions on national security. That was Juan who was just talking about that. Who is in the strongest position to field those questions? Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Hey, hey, hey.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: I didn't want to say what that was but I think you know.
GUTFELD: In a short speech billed as a national security address, Donald Trump didn't mention ISIS, but he said other stuff. Now, where did I leave that montage?
GUILFOYLE: I don't know.
GUTFELD: Oh, there it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
TRUMP: We're going to be building up our military. We're going to make our military so big and so strong and so great.
It will be so powerful that I don't think we're ever going to have to use it. Nobody is going to mess with us.
We're not going to sign deals where we have four prisoners over there and they're still there.
The leaders of Mexico, Japan, China, and every other country that we do business with, they're smarter, more cunning, sharper than our leaders.
I have the smartest people in this country lined up. I know the smartest.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
GUTFELD: Now, he said he'd make the military so big we'll never need it. OK. Size does relate to readiness, which is a real concern. But size doesn't matter to the terrorists planning attacks here. And when it comes to preventing them, we need specifics. You have got to go deep. President Reagan understood the communist threat when he took it down. Does anyone have the same handle on terror?
You can't assume a leader will learn in office, not when one error spells ruin. To defend 317 million lives, insults aren't going to work. George Will isn't the guy who is chopping off those heads. Maybe Trump will have specifics tonight. We need them -- not just from him, however, but from everyone. For right now, we have a president who let terror spread because he's too consumed by climate change. But as he frets over incremental increases in Celsius, the capacity for mass death grows in leaps and bounds. A fraction of a degree in heat means little, as the power of a killer rises exponentially. Call this "terror change": The relentless expansion of threat based on the marriage of terror and technology. Fewer bad men can do far more awful things using available tools every single year.
The first candidate to talk about how to fight terror change gets my vote. We have a new far deadlier enemy and we need a leader who gets it. Not electing one makes that new enemy our own stupidity.
So let's go around the horn as they say, Kimberly. Who is the most qualified you believe to talk about the future threat of terrorism? I'm not talking about war, I'm talking about terror.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So I think Marco Rubio is very strong on foreign policy and national security. I have had the opportunity to hear him speak on multiple occasions. I think he's going to excel at that tonight. I also feel that Chris Christie is very strong. And again, I have spent time watching personal appearances he's had, to listen to his messaging, and his background, and experience as a prosecutor and combating terror.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: He has to deal with it in New Jersey -- because there were cases of terror in New Jersey.
PERINO: But also as a prosecutor. So I think they both have an opportunity to do something there. This is a very pressing, very relevant issue. And so they should hit it out of the ballpark.
GUTFELD: Juan, what do you make of this?
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, this is a weakness for this group of people.
GUTFELD: You think so? There's nobody. I disagree completely.
WILLIAMS: OK. Well, I think, in fact, this is a Hillary Clinton talking point, which is how can any of them compare to her experience.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: So you mean to how she destroyed the Middle East?
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Benghazi, the red line. Oh, my God.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: The key point for me is what are you asking about? For example, are you asking about the Iran deal? And if you're asking about the Iran deal, give me an alternative. Tell me exactly what you would do.
GUTFELD: I'm talking about the modern face of terror.
WILLIAMS: Right. So I think the Iranians are certainly sponsors of terror. Now, I can't connect them to terror that's taken place here in the home, but I think in the Middle East, they are to me the enemy.
GUTFELD: It's a good point. Eric, what do you think?
BOLLING: I see what you did there. Terror change instead of global terror warming.
GUTFELD: Yeah. Exactly. Terror change.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I think they're all good. Any one of these you can almost pick any one up there and say they're going to protect the country. We have 2 million people in our military. We have the finest intel. I think they all have different ideas on when and where we should be deploying our assets, but I think the country will be safe as long as they continue to support and finance the intel that it needs to be supporting. What is it $6 billion or $8 billion to the FBI? Keep that number high.
PERINO: Money.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Money. Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: And we should give them more.
BOLLING: I think they all are on board with that.
GUTFELD: What about you, Perino?
GUILFOYLE: Perino? Like a burrito.
GUTFELD: I said Perino.
PERINO: Hey, look, OK, I think one of the things that's attractive about Trump for people is that he seems to be able to put his finger on the pulse of Americans feeling like our country is no longer respected in the world. Part of make America great again is not just domestic politics but keep America as a super power...
GUILFOYLE: Strong.
PERINO: ... that it is. So I think that's part of it. I'm not saying he would have the best solutions.
But I don't think any of them are really going to know until they get there.
GUTFELD: Do you think your...
PERINO: Part of that is a world view. I would ask more like do you think America should intervene? Do you think America should have enforced the red line, or do you think that we should leave them to it and deal with the consequences later?
WILLIAMS: Can I just jump in here and say, for example, on the migrant issue, you know, it's current affairs, not speaking to your issue about terror. But OK. So what do you guys think about these people fleeing, and do we have any moral or national security obligation?
PERINO: And I would flip that right back on Obama and Clinton, 100 percent.
GUTFELD: I would go -- I'd have to say, Carly. I mean, look, right after 9/11, she delivered a ton of H-P equipment to the NSA when they needed it. It was supposed to go retail, and she shipped it right over there. She worked for the CIA. I mean, she didn't hold any -- any political -- she wasn't a governor or senator, but she chaired the external advisory board at the CIA, which means she knows cyber terror, which is something we're all going to have to face, and the many threats that come with technology, whether it's drones and things like that. She knows the players.
I think she's the sleeper here tonight. I really do, but that's just me; and I'm just talking. And I'm the only one talking. We're going to go to a break.
PERINO: We were being respectful of you.
GUTFELD: Oh, how sweet.
WILLIAMS: You were right.
GUTFELD: All right. Thank you.
What's Hillary Clinton doing tonight? Hmm. We'll be -- will she be watching the debate? I'm sure she will. Ed Henry will be joining us. Plus, Joe Biden goes after Trump, next.
GUILFOYLE: Unicorn (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton chose the night of the second GOP debate to make her first appearance of the 2016 race on late-night TV. She's going to be on "The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon." Any strategy behind that decision? Well, let's bring in Ed Henry, who's been traveling with her campaign.
Ed, and you're still smiling and not bored to death. Interesting.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I think there is a strategy, because if you think about when the big FOX debate happened at the beginning of august, she was in a much different position in terms of the polls. She had something like a 30-point lead over Bernie Sanders at that point. And basically, she said, "Debate, what debate?" You know, she had an event out in Los Angeles, sort of -- kind of, sort of pretended the debate didn't happen.
This time going on Jimmy Fallon, a little counterprogramming tonight...
GUILFOYLE: Counterprogramming, yes.
HENRY: ... No. 1. And No. 2, she put out a little video today, her campaign, attacking Donald Trump, attacking the rest of the field. And I think there was an important strategy behind it. It was a sort of mock episode of "Celebrity Candidate..."
GUTFELD: Apprentice?
HENRY: "... Apprentice." Yes, thank you.
GUTFELD: You're welcome.
HENRY: A little reality show. Thanks, Greg.
GUTFELD: No problem, polka dotty.
HENRY: And -- and I think the point she's trying to make is that it's not just about Donald Trump. She's going to at least try to make the case that Donald Trump is pushing the rest of the field to the right on issues like immigration, on abortion. You've seen Rubio, Marco Rubio and others sort of shift their position a bit to the right.
And she wants to run against that, because she wants to distract from the e-mail and the Clinton Foundation and the other problems she has and focus on the Republican field.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Bolling, do you have a question?
BOLLING: So Ed, since the campaign decided, the staffers or the advisers, decided that she needed to inject more heart and humor into her campaign a couple of days ago, have you experienced any more heart and humor from the candidate?
HENRY: I think that they had a very specific plan to be more authentic and spontaneous, if you can follow that. Interesting when you come up with a strategy to be more spontaneous.
Let me say it slower for Greg. I just want to...
PERINO: Oh, my goodness.
BOLLING: How long before she fires the whole staff?
PERINO: You took my question.
HENRY: This is Dana's story. So Dana believes -- there's a Washington Post story today -- and you can jump in whenever you want. I don't want to steal your thunder. But it basically said, look, the Clinton camp is finally fessing up in private that they've got problems. Brooklyn, we've got a problem here. It took them a while. But they're saying, "Look, we've got a plan. We've got a strategy. We're going to grind it out. We're going to stick with that original plan."
There's one way to read that. One way is they're still kind of tone deaf, and they're just going to dig a deeper hole for themselves and say, "Everything is fine. We're going to stick with this. Sure, we've got problems, but in the long run, we're going to win this."
Or Dana's theory is they're actually going to start throwing people overboard. And this is the kind of "Hey, everything's fine..."
PERINO: This is the prelude to the shake-up.
HENRY: And maybe there's a shake-up. And you know what? When campaigns do that, a lot of times their numbers go up.
PERINO: Yes.
HENRY: They make adjustments. You know, you see it in sports. You see it in politics. And you don't go with the same plan for 18 months. You obviously have to make...
GUILFOYLE: She's still not a Tom Brady. So you can change, like, your offensive coordinator. You can change...
HENRY: Tom Brady endorsed Donald Trump today. He wants to make America great again.
GUILFOYLE: But this is the point. Yes. You can put everybody in you want, and you can even have the best offensive line in. And they can give you all the time in the world to throw the ball. But if you suck, you suck. You're not going to get it done. Yes.
HENRY: I don't really know what to say to that. I think Dana wanted to jump in.
PERINO: Oh, yes. So today Gallup came out with a word association. So I say Hillary, you say what? And the majority of people say "e-mail."
HENRY: "Diplomat." Oh.
PERINO: No. Apparently, it's e-mails and other things. So that story is not going away. She's going to testify on October 22. There are more documents to come out. That's not actually going to end for a while. Do they have a strategy to deal with that?
HENRY: Well, they actually think that this is going to help them, the Benghazi committee, and we'll see.
Well, No. 1, she's out there and Democrat Dianne Feinstein, we should point out, today said, look, now Republicans are calling for a special counsel to investigate the e-mail deal. And Dianne Feinstein said, "How much more money are we going to waste here? You've got the FBI investigating. You've got Trey Gowdy's committee. How many committees?"
And Dianne Feinstein also made a fair point, which is that Hillary Clinton has voluntarily said, "I'm going to testify in front of Trey Gowdy in public." Now, was it completely voluntary? Was she forced into it? Just like the email situation and admitting about the server, that subpoena from Trey Gowdy kind of forced matters, let's be honest here.
But at the end of the day, there is an opportunity for her in October -- It will be a few days after the first Democratic debate -- to get out there. If Trey Gowdy and others overplay their hand and look like they're beating up on Hillary Clinton, where have I seen that before? In the Senate debate where Rick Lazio looked like he was being a little too rough on her.
PERINO: You know that every time you use a banned phase, you have to give us $5.
HENRY: I saw Greg smiling, and he rarely smiles.
GUTFELD: That was for something else completely.
HENRY: Did I say "time will tell?"
GUTFELD: Find out in a moment.
Forget Hillary. America realizes she's as sincere as a chain letter. I want to ask you about her husband, Bill. He seems to be banging his head against the wall over this. I think he want -- he's trying to figure out a way to get back in the White House.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
GUTFELD: And they're even thinking of -- you know, they've floated the idea of vice president.
GUILFOYLE: You should turn this show down next time, Ed.
HENRY: Yes, I'm unavailable.
GUTFELD: Bill Clinton, what is he doing right now? Who is he doing right now? Where is he going?
HENRY: Believe you (ph)...
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I don't know. Hillary wants him to potentially be V.P., and so does Mario Lopez.
HENRY: Here's the real thing.
GUILFOYLE: Leave Ed alone. He's used to a real show, like "Special Report."
GUTFELD: Answer the question.
HENRY: Big dog, OK?
GUTFELD: Yes.
HENRY: He's been absent.
GUTFELD: Yes.
HENRY: And all of a sudden Hillary Clinton let slip in this "Extra" interview, "Well, I -- the thought has crossed my mind about him being V.P., which doesn't really make that much sense because constitutionally, he couldn't succeed."
PERINO: I don't think she was being serious, though.
HENRY: I don't know. She wasn't laughing.
GUTFELD: Hard to tell.
HENRY: But here's the broader point. He's actually doing a fundraiser, I believe, tomorrow in Chicago. It's going to be the first time that Bill Clinton actually gets there. He's pinch-hitting because Hillary Clinton decided to...
GUTFELD: Or pinching.
HENRY: He's pinch-hitting, because Hillary Clinton is going to New Hampshire tomorrow instead. And that's where I'll be. And she's actually doing three days in New Hampshire. I don't remember her doing three days in a row. And that...
GUILFOYLE: And tell us why she needs to do that, Ed.
HENRY: That tells me Bernie Sanders is in the lead in New Hampshire.
GUTFELD: There you go.
HENRY: She's got problems there. And this is more about the strategy. So she's going there, and Bill Clinton is going to Chicago to pinch hit at a fundraiser. And I think we're going to see more of him. The campaign is telling us that this is the first of many fundraisers for him. We're going to see him on the trail. And we haven't seen him.
GUILFOYLE: Well, because they were waiting. They were, like, holding it in the back pocket. But now they've got to, you know, bring out the...
HENRY: Maybe it's sort of like to break glass. And remember when Al Gore -- it was a different point in the campaign cycle, but Al Gore kept saying, "I don't know about Bill Clinton." You know what? Hillary Clinton knows that Bill Clinton at some point is going to be very important.
WILLIAMS: So let's talk inside Democratic Party politics. Obviously, a lot of people wondering about Joe Biden. Yesterday Joe Biden comes out, and he goes after Donald Trump as xenophobic, denigrating an entire group of people in terms of immigrants but particularly Mexicans, the thieves and the rapists. And then we know from when he was visiting New York last week, that he's meeting with a major Wall Street bundler.
BOLLING: Robert Wolf.
WILLIAMS: So what are you thinking?
HENRY: I think last week after the Colbert interview, you could make the case that Joe Biden was not sounding like a candidate. He was sounding like a father who was understandably still grieving.
And I think when you sit down with a major Democratic fundraiser like Robert Wolf, very close to President Obama, it suggests you're getting more serious about getting in. Then the Trump comments last night, and by the way, just in the last hour, Joe Biden was out on the road making more comments, talking about the debate tonight, saying that Republicans are deniers on climate change. Going after them on health care and women's health. The kind of themes we're hearing Hillary Clinton do.
And so I think he's looking more and more like a candidate, No. 1.
And I would argue sort of a counter thing, which is that everybody assumes, boy, this is really bad news for Hillary Clinton. One little twist for you, which is when this race started and it looked like Hillary was the inevitable nominee, there was a lot of talk about how's she going to deal with separating herself from Barack Obama? Joe Biden gets in, he's Obama 3.0. He's the running mate.
WILLIAMS: And there's no question. This is -- this is the problem that I've said all along, she can't get to the right of Hillary Clinton. I mean, you know, he can't get to the left of Hillary Clinton. So Bernie Sanders...
HENRY: Bernie Sanders is already...
WILLIAMS: He occupies the left. By the way, do you see that...
HENRY: Joe Biden all of a sudden becomes the incumbent, not Hillary Clinton.
WILLIAMS: I agree 100 percent.
GUILFOYLE: That's a whole lot of effort and exhausting to try and help her win. Like, what's in it for Biden? I mean, my God.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no.
HENRY: I'm not saying he's doing it on purpose.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I think he should just run and, you know, get the nomination and just beat her, because it should be the best person...
HENRY: There's a long way between him -- before you get in, you look like the perfect candidate on paper, just like Hillary Clinton. She's got the resume. Once you get in, you make a gaffe.
GUILFOYLE: He's a better campaigner, I think, than she is.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no.
GUILFOYLE: He's more likable.
WILLIAMS: Who has run twice and not run.
GUTFELD: Juan. Just crushing it over there.
GUILFOYLE: What, Juan?
WILLIAMS: Nothing.
GUILFOYLE: All right, Juan, I'll deal with you during the break. But, Ed, thank you.
HENRY: It was great seeing you.
GUILFOYLE: It= was so nice.
HENRY: Thanks, Greg.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you for dressing up for this panel.
Greg, go back into the corner.
Again, don't miss the FOX News Channel's post-debate breakdown with Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, and Sean Hannity, beginning live at 11 p.m. Eastern.
And some final predictions on tonight. Stay with us. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Some of the candidates might raise their voices tonight, but if all goes as planned, you won't hear a peep from the audience. That's because, according to The New York Times, CNN wants the crowd to remain silent, asking the crowd not to cheer or boo during the debate. Well, sounds to me, Kimberly, like...
GUILFOYLE: Boo! What?
WILLIAMS: ... it take the energy away and hurts the star of the show, Mr. Donald Trump.
GUILFOYLE: But he has enough energy.
WILLIAMS: So it doesn't matter?
GUILFOYLE: Right?
WILLIAMS: I know he has energy.
GUILFOYLE: So there you go. I don't know. I mean, look, it kind of reminds you you're supposed to be kind of quiet during tennis and all. But those are the sports that annoy me.
WILLIAMS: Annoy you?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I find them annoying.
WILLIAMS: So you would break protocol? You would just go at it?
GUILFOYLE; Yes. Be like the Romans. Yell, scream, get it on. I love it. I love football, yes.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
GUTFELD: That's wrong.
WILLIAMS: What do you think?
GUTFELD: That's wrong.
BOLLING: I actually like this rule.
WILLIAMS: Why?
BOLLING: Because I think we're going to get a lot more information now.
PERINO: I agree.
BOLLING: There's so much applause time, and I just -- this would -- for me, and this is important...
GUILFOYLE: It's three hours!
BOLLING: There's 11 people.
GUILFOYLE: Good gosh.
BOLLING: Last time, half the people if not more, said, "We needed more time." This will buy some time.
GUTFELD: Do you know what the problem is? Excuse me, Dana. But there are people that are there just to cheer, and they'll cheer at whatever anybody says. And it just -- you feel like you're being cheated. Like when you're watching -- it's like watching "The Daily Show" or "The Bill Maher Show." People just clap for anything.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
GUTFELD: And by the way, we're Republicans. We're not supposed to feel; we're only supposed to think.
GUILFOYLE: But you're an independent.
GUTFELD: You're supposed to be like this. You're not supposed to -- you're supposed to be completely emotionless and go like this. That's how I watch movies. Like I don't -- I don't express any emotion when I'm watching a movie. I'm like this.
WILLIAMS: You never say, "Ooh, aah"?
GUTFELD: Never. I don't laugh when I go to comedy clubs. I just sit there with a grimace face.
WILLIAMS: Is that right? And so if, on the stage or on the screen, you see this beautiful woman, you have no reaction?
GUTFELD: I don't.
WILLIAMS: No?
GUTFELD: Why would I go to a movie and see a beautiful woman? I could stay home.
WILLIAMS: That's true. I thought of that. Or you could come visit here from Ms. Perino. Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Stalker.
WILLIAMS: Dana -- Dana, if you have...
GUILFOYLE: You know it.
WILLIAMS: ... nobody going "ooh" after, like, a one-liner, like, you know, somebody takes a shot at Trump. And they go "Ooh."
PERINO: I know, actually after the FOX debate, I asked some people that were involved in the planning of this debate. And I just asked if they thought it would be better to have asked for there not to be any sort of crowd reaction because for the reasons Eric and Greg have just mentioned. Because it was annoying to me as a viewer.
However, they said that in the room, in the arena, that it actually helped with the whole energy and the movement of the event.
So it's just one of those things where, you know when you're at an event or a speech, and they say, "I'm -- we're going to recognize all the great people and please hold your applause till the end," but no one does. I love to roll my eyes.
GUTFELD: Why do you hold your applause?
WILLIAMS: Yes, you don't do it.
GUILFOYLE: You're not going to get out of control, but come on.
WILLIAMS: Well, I've got to tell you, I was on the other end of this in '12 with Gingrich who went after me, and the audience responded, and it helped Gingrich.
GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, I know, it was...
GUILFOYLE: Yes, Juan, you've got...
GUTFELD: That was a tough moment for you, wasn't it, Juan?
WILLIAMS: No, I'm going to tell you, you learn your lesson, don't you?
GUILFOYLE: Juan, you got kind of smoked.
WILLIAMS: Oh, please. "One More Thing"...
GUTFELD: That's terrible.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: ... buzz kill you are.
PERINO: All right. It's time for "One More Thing." I wish you could have heard that commercial break.
Anyway, we got some great news today at "The Five" and the FOX News Channel. You heard us talk about our producer/reporter Barry. Well, his mother, Paula Allen, had a little bit of a cancer scare. It was pancreatic cancer. But she underwent surgery at M.D. Anderson, and the tumor was removed.
Today they got the word the cancer is gone. She is cancer free, so it's a really great day for the entire family.
I think we have pictures of the oncologist, Dr. Robert Wolff, and the surgeon, Dr. Matthew Katz. She was at M.D. Anderson.
And I also have a picture here, I think, of all the grandkids. Those are all her grandkids. So cute. And she'll be back swimming with them soon. So congratulations and thank you to M.D. Anderson.
BOLLING: That is fantastic.
GUILFOYLE: Thanks be to God. Very, very, very exciting. Yes.
PERINO: Greg Gutfeld.
GUTFELD: I don't have news like that. I have weird news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Dana Perino News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: All right. This is a first. Anybody who knows Dana, she goes to bed about 8:45 p.m. in her onesie, Strawberry Shortcake onesie, but today - - tonight she's staying up past 9. She's actually going to be on "Megyn Kelly" at midnight. Do you want to see what she looks like at midnight? There she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GRAPHIC OF PUMPKIN WEARING BLOND WIG)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: A pumpkin.
GUTFELD: She turns into a pumpkin.
PERINO: It is -- it is going to be a challenge to stay awake. But I think the three-our debate will keep me up. So I hope you watch. Eric Bolling.
GUILFOYLE: We'll check it out.
BOLLING: So a lot of people think that we can't make Mexico pay for border security, whether it's a Donald Trump wall or anyone else that wants to put additional border agents. However your plan is to seal the border, they can. I have a plan. I'm going to put it out here now.
The benefits are it won't cost America a dime. It's not an import fee, so American products imported into America won' -- prices won't go up.
GUILFOYLE: I've got to see this. Go.
BOLLING: It's a free-market solution, and it -- I guarantee this works.
We import 1 million barrels of oil per day from Mexico. It comes through a pipeline. Costs them nothing to transport it. It's based on the going price for oil. So today, it's $47 per barrel.
Forty-five dollars a barrel would go directly to Mexico. That's theirs. The other $2 that's coming out of our pocket -- doesn't affect the cost of oil, affects nothing, because it goes into an escrow account that we spend buying border security, whether it's the wall or border agents. That's $730 million per years. And that's almost exactly what it would cost to build the wall. If you don't want to build a wall, that would do it. That would seal your border, and Mexico -- guess what, guys? -- pays for it. No?
GUILFOYLE: No, I mean, that sounds good. I mean, I'm just like...
PERINO: K.G., I'm excited for this one.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you, I'm super excited, too. I hope you are.
GUTFELD: Bacon! Bacon!
GUILFOYLE: All right, then. So Oscar Mayer has a new kind of like a dating app they're launching called Sizzl, and it's all about the bacon, people. So it involves a whole swiping thing, which is cleaner than that whole Tinder site.
But so what happens is it relies solely on bacon and what kind of bacon you like. So for example, Greg, what kind of bacon do you like the most, pork, turkey or both?
GUTFELD: I'm more of a Kevin.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, God. Dana -- you ruined it.
PERINO: Pork.
GUILFOYLE: Bolling, you have to eat turkey.
BOLLING: Only turkey. Yes.
WILLIAMS: Nothing beats pork.
GUILFOYLE: I would eat that first. And then it says what type of bacon do you prefer? Excuse me, I'm not done. Thick cut, because more is more. That's me for sure. Maple and sweet, or lower sodium? Who cares?
PERINO: Maple and sweet, I'm not for that.
GUILFOYLE: OK, right. Exactly. And how do you like your bacon? Do you like it chewy?
GUTFELD: Crispy. Got to have it crispy.
PERINO: Crispy.
GUILFOYLE: Crispy?
WILLIAMS: Crispy bacon.
GUILFOYLE: I think this is such a good idea. I've been eating it all, and this is so delicious. Who's in?
GUTFELD: Juan!
PERINO: Juan, you're next.
WILLIAMS: All right. So Mark Zuckerberg said yesterday that Facebook is going to create a "dislike" button. So I thought that's interesting how we communicate. But guess what? It doesn't mean that you hate something. It means that you have empathy. So like you heard that something terrible happened -- a flood, a death -- and you're expressing empathy. But then how do they do that?
GUTFELD: I don't know.
WILLIAMS: I don't know.
PERINO: I don't get it. All right. Special coverage tonight at 11 p.m. Eastern tonight on FOX. "Special Report" is next.
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