Christie pans Trump's immigration agenda; Cruz on changing birthright citizenship policy

New Jersey governor provides insight into his strategy on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 25, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, a remarkable moment on the campaign trail with republican frontrunner Donald Trump setting off new controversy as the chief news anchor of the nation's largest Spanish language TV network is thrown out of Trump's news conference.

Welcome to "The Kelly File" everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Just hours ago, Donald Trump taking questions from reporters in Iowa ahead of a speech.  But just moments in that even, Jorge Ramos, the top anchorman for Univision who has repeatedly called out Trump's position on illegal immigration tried to get Trump's attention by shouting a question without being called on first and it went downhill from there. Watch.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Okay, who's next? Yes, please. Excuse me. Sit down. You weren't called. Sit down. Sit down.  Sit down. Go ahead. No, you don't. You haven't been called. Go back to Univision. Go ahead. Go ahead.

JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: You cannot deport 11 million people (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Go ahead. Sit down, please. You weren't called. Go.



KELLY: We have a full lineup tonight on immigration, 2016 and the Trump speech in Iowa including presidential candidates Senator Ted Cruz and Governor Chris Christie.

Marc Thiessen is here as well as Howie Kurtz. But we begin tonight with our chief political correspondent Carl Cameron live on the campaign trail with Donald Trump in Dubuque, Iowa. Carl?

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Megyn. It was dramatic. I was about four seats down from Jorge Ramos when that whole thing unfolded. And Mr. Trump was clearly irritated. Jorge is a tough, tough reporter and he has had a reputation for presidential politics has throwing fast balls and he tried to. And Trump was clearly having absolutely none of it. And while it may have looked uncomfortable on some level, it's also true that when a presidential candidate takes on the press and tells them to sit down and shut up, a lot of folks at home think, hmm, yes, we can kind of agree because sometimes the media frankly annoys them almost as much as the politicians themselves do.

In this particular case, Trump at one point had to wave to one of his security guys to actually assist in the removal of Jorge. And -- couple of matter of minutes, some of the reporters began asking questions about whether or not Trump regretted what happened. And he said, look, I don't mind if he comes back in the room. And lo and behold, in a matter of moments he did. And they actually continued their battle. Very interesting news conference. At that news conference in fact, I actually asked the first question and it was about what Trump was able to do here in terms of bareknuckle politics against none other than Texas former Governor Rick Perry.

Rick Perry's co-chairman Sam Clovis is a very influential social conservative left the Perry campaign just a couple of days ago. And today he joined on with Trump as the national campaign co-chairman. A big get for Trump, it's an influential one, a sign of Perry in trouble. And the fact that Trump chose to have this event in Dubuque which is right on the Wisconsin border meant it was possible for an awful lot of cheese heads and -- state voters to come over and check out Trump in Iowa and they did.  This room had a lot of Wisconsin voters, not good for Scott Walker. Trump took a big shot at him tonight as he did per usual against Jeb Bush. But the other thing that we saw here critically important Megyn, there was a capacity crowd over 4,000 showed up and there were lots of recognizable old school Iowa caucus goers here. These weren't new voters coming to check out a concert celebrity. This was actually caucus goers. I've been coming here since '88, I recognize them. He has got real voters turning out in big numbers in the first caucus state -- Megyn.

KELLY: Carl, thank you. Well, you saw Jorge Ramos being escorted out and then reporters started pressuring Trump about the decision to show this reporter the door. Ten minutes after he left Ramos came back in and then engaged Trump in a five minute back and forth on immigration and how the Donald is doing in the polls including this. Watch.


RAMOS: You said that you're going to win the Latino vote.

TRUMP: I think so because I'm going to bring jobs back.  

RAMOS: The truth is, I've seen the polls, you're losing the Latino -- 75 percent of Latinos --

TRUMP: I don't think I will.

RAMOS: No, nationwide. Nationwide.

TRUMP: I haven't even started. In Nevada, did you see the poll of the Hispanics in the state of Nevada? Excuse me. Big Hispanic population.  I wiped everybody out. Hispanic. I won the poll with Hispanics. You saw that. Right? Did you see it?

RAMOS: In Nevada?

TRUMP: Wait, did you see it?

RAMOS: Yes. But --  

TRUMP: Okay. He's an honest guy. Now I like him.


KELLY: Howie Kurtz, the host of "MediaBuzz" right here on FNC.  Howie, good to see you. And when, so first he escorts him out, has him escorted out and then reporters say, hold on, Mr. Trump. Hold on! Let's talk about what just happened here. And he says, all right, he can come back in. How is this being received first of all?

HOWIE KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Well, Donald Trump loves to pick fights with prominent journalists and keep those fights going especially if they are back from vacation. And for him, Jorge Ramos is the perfect foil. A guy who has called Trump the loudest voice of intolerance and hatred in the country who wasn't called on, who wasn't so much asking a question as lecturing Trump. You cannot deport 11 million illegal immigrants. And when Trump had him escorted out, it's like reality television. It was almost like he was having him deported. Go back to Univision. But it wasn't playing well online. Megyn, a lot of journalists talking about the Trump goons and a big drudge headlines. Trump boots Jorge. And I think when it came up at the presser Trump shrewdly realized that he didn't want that to be the story, he'd rather engaged Jorge Ramos, so back he comes for the debate.

KELLY: Uh-mm. Good move to bring him back absolutely because he can't just be throwing out the reporters even if they are out of order. I mean, maybe he can. I don't know. But the other controversy there tonight was, he didn't even let in the Des Moines Register reporter. The straight news reporter which he's been -- this is not the first time he has done that because he is apparently ticked off about an editorial, the editorial that the Des Moines Register wrote about him weeks ago.

KURTZ: It was a very tough editorial. But as an old newspaper guy, it seems to me, you don't punish the reporter for something that the other part of the paper does. I know a lot of people don't believe the two are separate but the editorial page is separate. What's even more amazing, this goes back to my point about Trump picking this media fights and then debating Jorge and trying to push the debate back on him. Are you saying I shouldn't kick out the gang members? That whole flap with the Des Moines paper was five weeks ago and Trump is still doing it. Once he decides that some media outlet or person hasn't been fair, he just keeps going and going. It generates new story lines. So, the next two days, it is all going to be Trump versus Jorge which means once again he is driving the campaign dialogue, once again the media replaying the clips, once again the other candidates have to respond to the dialogue.

KELLY: The Des Moines Register thing is what's interesting. Because, you know, under the Obama administration when he is trying to exclude Fox News from any sort of, you know, group interview offering, the Press Corps has stood up and said, no, even people who are anti-Fox has stood up and said, no that is not all right. You may not. Because in the end, the press is unified against people in positions of power where we have access.  But somehow the Des Moines Register has not, you know, the same rules have not been followed with respect to that publication in this candidate.  Howie, good to see you.

KURTZ: Same here, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, during that same news conference, Donald Trump pointed to his performance in polls in some of the early primary states including this Monmouth University poll out of South Carolina showing Trump leading the field with 30 percent of the vote in South Carolina. Rounding out the top five, Dr. Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Carly Fiorina.

Marc Thiessen is a Fox News contributor and a former chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush. And, you know, that's not the only poll in which Donald Trump is leading, he is leading in New Hampshire, he is leading virtually everywhere. And the question is whether that is likely to continue.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It very well could, Megyn. And look, it puts very interesting about that South Carolina poll if you look at those numbers. So, Trump is first with 30 percent. Ben Carson is second with 15 percent. Carly Fiorina has six percent. That's a 51 percent majority. What are those three candidates have in common? They are political outsiders who have never held elective office before. So, this is really -- this is not just -- I thought this was going to be an anti-Washington election. This is an anti-politician election. And Donald Trump is the ultimate anti-politician as you just saw in that exchange he had with Univision.

KELLY: When he got up there, you know, in his speech, he was talking about how he thinks they should ban Teleprompters for these politicians.  These presidential candidates which I think, you know, the President actually uses a teleprompter pretty much in most places he goes. But I don't know that the candidates have been. But the point is, there is a realness to Donald Trump that is missing from so many of these other candidates. They do tend to sound rehearsed and stilted. He is never rehearsed. Obviously he shoots from the cuff and he says everything that comes to his mind which has gotten him in some trouble but I think helps him more than it hurts him. And people are very much connecting to that.

THIESSEN: They are connecting to that. And he says things that would probably destroy and other would be carrier ending gasp for other people and he just keeps moving up in the polls. And I think the reason is, is one, it is just hypnotically fascinating. I mean, that exchange that he had with Jorge Ramos was just, I mean, may have upset the news reporters but for republican voters, they look at that and they said, this is the guy who said, you know, Bernie Sanders shouldn't get his microphone taken away, he kicked this guy out who was basically protesting at his press conference. I mean, that is a winning thing for him. But it's not just the spectacle of it. People feel disenfranchised and they feel like he is speaking for them. There was that Alabama rally he had the other day.  Some reporters asked -- interviewed and asked, what do you like about him?  Why are you attracted to him? And one of the guys said something very profound. He said, he is our microphone. That's what they think of this guy.

KELLY: What about our policy? On policy. I mean, because Frank Luntz did an interesting focus group that showed, when asked about, you know, he was a democrat for most of the last ten years and he made all these donations to Hillary and Nancy Pelosi and so on, and they didn't care. I mean, even on the policies, you know, from abortion and so on, they like the man.

THIESSEN: It's really remarkable if you think about it. And so, he is leading in South Carolina among evangelicals. He's leading nationally with evangelicals. But in South Carolina, which is evangelicals' state.  Thirty three percent. This is a guy whose position on abortion was so radical that he actually opposed a ban on partial birth abortion and he is leading with evangelicals. Tea Party supporters has -- 33 percent of Tea Party support, first in among the Republicans against Tea Party. This guy was a democrat who funded Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, who supported Obama stimulus.

KELLY: And Anthony Weiner.

THIESSEN: He supported the Obama stimulus. He was in favor of single payer which is more radical and he even supported Harry Reid against a Tea Party challenger, yet he's got the majority of Tea Party voters. I mean, it doesn't -- the issues almost don't matter because he is channeling popular anger. And, you know, the question is, does it last?

KELLY: We shall see. We'll be here to cover it. Marc Thiessen, great to see you.

THIESSEN: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, with Donald Trump doing so well in the polls, the illegal immigration issue is getting new attention from the entire republican field. And Senator Ted Cruz is here next with his reaction to Trump's plan to change our citizenship laws and indeed the constitution.

And then New Jersey Governor Chris Christie offers his thoughts on the calls to deport 11.3 million people from this country.

Plus, with more republican candidates now taking heat from the Black Lives Matter Movement, one angry mom is again challenging these protesters about why they are defending what she calls thugs and ignoring victims like this nine-year-old girl killed by a stray bullet while she was doing her homework.

Colonel Allen West and Richard Fowler join us to debate this, right here.


PEGGY HUBBARD, FORMER NAVY OFFICER: Are you (bleep) kidding me?  Police brutality? How about black brutality? You black people, my black people, you are the most violent (bleep) I have ever seen in my life.



KELLY: Well, Senator Ted Cruz has aligned himself with most of Donald Trump's immigration policies. And while Mr. Trump is the republican frontrunner, recent polling shows Senator Cruz gaining ground. He also holds an almost 40 point advantage over Donald Trump when it comes to Hispanic voters. A key group in the general election.

Ted Cruz is a republican senator from Texas and republican presidential candidate.

Good to see you tonight, Senator. So, let's talk about immigration.


KELLY: Because Mr. Trump made news last week when he started to unfold his plan. And you said, I love the plan, in fact I actually authored almost all of the same policies and introduced them in the Senate years ago starting with this. He wants to end automatic citizenship, birthright citizenship as outlined in the 14th Amendment as required by the 14th Amendment and you agree with him. Is it that you want to pass a constitutional amendment or that you don't think the constitution as written allows the children of illegal immigrants, those children being born here to have American citizenship?

CRUZ: Well, as a policy matter, Megyn, it doesn't make any sense anymore. That people who are here illegally, that their children would have automatic citizenship. That what that does is serves as an incentive encouraging people to break the law and come here illegally. And we ought to change that policy. Now, as you noted there is a legal dispute about the best means to do it. And there are serious legal scholars who argue that Congress could do it through statute defining what it means to be subject to the jurisdiction, the language of the 14th Amendment.

KELLY: Uh-mm.

CRUZ: There are other serious constitutional scholars who argue the only way to change it is through a constitutional amendment. My view is we should pursue either or both, whichever is effective. What matters is that we should change the policy so we are not rewarding and incentivizing and encouraging more illegal immigration.

KELLY: What do you think? Because in 2011 in an interview you gave, you came out and said, look, the 14th Amendment provides for birthright citizenship, I've looked at the legal arguments against it. And I'll tell you, those arguments are not very good. As much as someone may dislike the policy, it is in the constitution and I don't like it when federal judges set aside the constitution because of their policy preferences being different.

CRUZ: Well, that's why I say we should pursue either or both. We should pursue either a constitutional amendment which overcomes any language in the constitution or a statute if the other scholars are right that it's within Congress' authority. What matters is the underlying policy.

KELLY: I will ask you the same question that was asked here yesterday of Mr. Trump on FOX News which is, if you had a husband and a wife who are illegal immigrants and they have two children who are here who are American citizens, would you deport all of them? Would you deport the American citizen children?

CRUZ: So, Megyn, what I have said is that we should approach immigration in a stage matter. We should start with focusing on areas of bipartisan agreement. Where is their bipartisan agreement on two major areas? Number one, that we should do everything possible to secure the border and stop illegal immigration. And number two, to improve and stream line legal immigration. What does that mean to secure the border?

KELLY: Right. But that doesn't sound like an answer. Mr. Trump answered that question explicitly last night on "The O'Reilly Factor" Will you do so now?

CRUZ: Well, Megyn, what I'm doing is answering what I think Congress should do. What Congress should do and I introduced legislation to do exactly this, triple the border patrol. Increase four fold -- roadable wing aircraft to monitor the border. Put in place a strong biometric as an entry system because 40 percent of the illegal immigration doesn't come across the border if VISA overstays. Put in place a strong e-verify system. And then this final piece is critical. Actually have the federal government enforce the law. You know, in the year 2013 --

KELLY: Senator, I understand all that. You've outlined your plan.  But unlike you, you are dodging my question. You don't want to answer that question. He says, he would.

CRUZ: Megyn, I'm not playing the game.


KELLY: -- Under his policy. What would a President Cruz do? Do the American citizen children of two illegal immigrants who are born here, the children, do they get deported under a President Cruz?

CRUZ: Megyn, I get that that is the question you want to ask, that's also the question every mainstream liberal journalist wants to ask.

KELLY: Is it an unfair question?

CRUZ: They focus exclusively on the 12 million people. It is a distraction from how we actually solve the problem. You know, it is also the question Barack Obama wants to focus on.

KELLY: Why is it so hard? Why don't you just say yes or no?

CRUZ: Because Megyn, we need to solve the problem. And the way you solve the problem is you focus where there is bipartisan agreement first.  Once we secure the border, once we have actually proven we can do this, once we stop the Obama administration's policy of releasing 104,000 violent criminal illegal aliens in one year, once we solve that problem then we can have a debate, then we can have a conversation.

KELLY: I want to ask you before I let you go because you had an important conference call today that was very well supported and attended by pastors. One hundred thousand pastors. Wait. That could have been a conference call. Do I have my facts wrong? You had 100,000 people on a conference call?

CRUZ: You are exactly right. We had a conference call with over 100,000 pastors nationwide that were reached out to and participated in it.  And it's focusing on Planned Parenthood on these horrible videos. And really two things. One thing that I have pledged if I am elected president on the very first day that I'm sworn into office I will direct the Department of Justice to open an investigation into Planned Parenthood and to prosecute any and all criminal violation by that organization. These videos are horrifying. But number two, we need to defund Planned Parenthood.

KELLY: All of it?

CRUZ: All of these pastors this afternoon. Every penny of it. It makes no sense that your and my taxpayer dollars should be going to fund what appears to be an ongoing criminal enterprise.

KELLY: You know the argument, people say it does a lot of good and that, you know, the part of Planned Parenthood that doesn't do abortions should continue to have funding.

CRUZ: But Megyn, you're too good a lawyer. You represented clients in private practice. If you represented a client that was committing an ongoing pattern of felonies, that had criminal investigations in states across this country that was blatantly violating the law, you wouldn't be advocating that well, my client should still get a half billion dollars in federal taxpayer money. If you're representing any other client, your client would be going to jail.

KELLY: If I had agreed to represent them, I might have had to do that. You know, that is why I got out of the law. I didn't like that kind of stuff.


That's why you and I, we both chosen different professions now.  Senator, it's always great to see you. Thank you so much.

CRUZ: Megyn, it's great to be with you and I will say, we are seeing people all over the country going to contributing and signing up. It's really incredible.

KELLY: All the best to you.

CRUZ: Thank you.

KELLY: Up next, Governor Chris Christie getting a lot of attention for what he had to say about the immigration plan of Senator Cruz and Mr. Trump. He is here live when we come back.

Plus, new fallout at the GOP field as both Governor Scott Walker and Senator Rand Paul get hit for their comments on the Black Lives Matter protests group.

Allen West, Richard Fowler and a must-see debate, moments away.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, the illegal immigrant charged with murder in the shooting death of Kate Steinle at a San Francisco pier back in July appeared in court today. And Trace Gallagher is live in our West Coast Newsroom with the very latest twist in this case. Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Francisco Sanchez was brought into the courtroom, heavily shackled to the waist and ankles, and spent much of the day staring down as he listened to a Spanish interpreter.  Prosecutors tried to make their case against him using eyewitness testimony and photos taken by tourists near the crime scene. Moments before Kate Steinle was shot, a witness who was sight-seeing took a picture of a man who resembles Sanchez sitting on a chair as Kate Steinle walks by just a few yards away. Then after hearing shots, a guest at a nearby hotel took pictures of the same man quickly walking away from the crime scene.

Neither of those pictures was released but eyewitness accounts led to Sanchez being arrested an hour after the shooting about a mile away. A homicide detective testified that Steinle was shot in the back and collapsed suddenly yelling, "Daddy, please help me." Her father initially thought her cell phone exploded until he saw it's still in her hand.  Another police officer testified how a witness told him she heard a bang and then turned around and saw an object fall off the pier and go plunk as a man in a gray hoodie matching the suspect description ran away.  Surveillance tape from a fire station across the street also showed a splash in the same area. Dive teams recovered a gun the very next day, the same gun that killed Kate Steinle. The defense claims the shooting was an accident. The prosecution says it was intentional though there has been no mention of a motive. The hearing is expected to last through at least tomorrow -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Well, after Kate Steinle's murder made national headlines, republican frontrunner Donald Trump doubled down on his call to build a wall along the border and to deport all of the illegal immigrants that are here in America now. Over the weekend, one of his republican rivals New Jersey Governor Chris Christie responded to Trump's plan. Watch.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Many ways it's just too simplistic, you know, the idea of, you know, building a wall, kicking everybody out and ending birthright citizenship. You know, it sounds, you know, appealing in some respect to some folks. But I just think it is a very complicated problem and it needs someone who understands how to do a complicated and nuance solutions to that problem.  


KELLY: Joining me now, presidential candidate Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey. Governor, thanks for being here.

CHRISTIE: Thanks for having me, Megyn.

KELLY: So, you heard Ted Cruz defended it. Donald Trump defends it.  They say, Donald Trump keeps saying some very smart legal scholars believe it is possible. The 14th Amendment so people know, says if you are born here, you are a citizen here. But you have got serious men now running for president saying, we need to do away with that.

CHRISTIE: Well, I mean, listen, it doesn't make sense. It's in the constitution. They want to amend the constitution, then you need a two- thirds vote in Congress and 38 states to ratify. But you know what, Megyn, what is underlying all of this is the extraordinary frustration that the American people feel after 30 years these folks in Congress, previous presidents haven't enforced the law. And maybe I come at this from a really direct point of view. But what I believe is, you are elected to enforce the law. That is what I did for seven years as U.S. attorney, that's what I've done for six years as governor, you stand up against the people who don't want to enforce the law and you make sure it happens.

KELLY: But their point is and Trump said this at a rally earlier tonight, if somebody comes across the border for one day, has a baby and that baby gets the birthright of, you know, American citizenship for, you know, the next 80 years and all the benefits that come with it, is that right? Shouldn't something be done about it? And that's an abuse that wasn't contemplated by the founders in his view.

CHRISTIE: If we enforce the law, we won't have that problem. The fact is, what we need to do is to make sure that we are securing the border in the first place. What we need to do is to make sure we secure that people come over here with visas, don't overstay the visas, we have laws in place now to handle, the overall majority of the stuff. But what people are really angry about is, the government doesn't do their job. And, you know, that is why people elected me in New Jersey in 2009 because the government was completely ineffective wasn't doing their job. You know, I stood up to the legislature in New Jersey. We have done those things. I will do the same thing as president on the immigration issue. You have a law enforcer in the Oval Office who's have that job before and we know how to enforce the law.

KELLY: Let me ask you this. Because earlier this month, you apparently suggested to Laura Ingraham that the 14th Amendment and this birthright citizenship things was outdated and needed to be re-examined in light of the current circumstances.

CHRISTIE: Yes. What I said was when we do overall immigration reform, I am willing to put anything on the table for discussion, with all the different advocates. That is different than saying that there is no such thing. It is in the constitution.

KELLY: What about 11.3 million illegal immigrants who are now here because Trump, and Cruz and others think that they should go and not only should they go but even their American citizen children, at least Donald Trump says, they got to go, too.

CHRISTIE: We are not kicking out American citizens. And the fact is, listen, I have done law enforcement for seven years. There is not enough law enforcement officers at the local, county, state and federal level to forcibly deport 11.3 million people.  


CHRISTIE: So let's get real.  The American people really want a bigger government? The one we have got is too big and too ineffective already. So let's make is smaller like I did in New Jersey. Let's make the federal government smaller and more effective with an effective executive. The fact is people are angry because this government doesn't work.

KELLY: How does the Republican Party find that place in between alienating Hispanic voters, because if Mitt Romney had won 10 percent better with Hispanics he might be President Romney right now? So not alienating the Hispanic voters, but still appealing to the wing of the Republican Party that really wants a tough position on this.

CHRISTIE: By telling the truth and enforcing the law. The fact is that you don't need to be pandering to one way or the other. You don't do like focus group trips to the border, speak Spanish, and then criticize Asians.

KELLY: You are referring to Jeb Bush.


CHRISTIE: I don't think that is the way you do it. I don't think you do it by doing policies that come out of the 1990s. You need to deal with this problem directly. Say to the American people listen, we've got a problem, the first thing we need to do is to secure the border and fix it.  Once we do that, we're not adding to this problem, and then let's have a conversation about how we effectively deal with the people who are in the country. If they commit a crime, they should be arrested, put in jail, and as soon as they finish serving their term those folks should be deported without question. But I don't think we're going to deport American citizens, Megyn.

KELLY: And that would have taken care of the Kate Steinle murder.


CHRISTIE: And by the way a lot of the other interesting things that people are concerned about would've been taken care of that way. And the last thing is this. Folks that want to go backwards, we don't want to litigate old fights and old conversations, and old disputes. We don't need a candidate who's looking backwards, who can't even answer a question on anchor babies. We need to have someone who's going to be looking forward and doing things the right way. I'll try to be coy about it. But the fact is that if Governor Bush cannot stand up to answer those questions with two or three tries at it, what's going to happen when he has to look at Vladimir Putin?

KELLY: Governor Christie, always a pleasure. You did that interview in Face the Nation outside, you like to do these outside interviews. Will you do that with me too?


KELLY: The sunlight highlights the blonde.

CHRISTIE: I think it looks good for both of us, Megyn. I think we both look fabulous on the outside. Listen, Dickerson didn't look bad either, all things considered.

KELLY: Great to see you, sir.

CHRISTIE: Good to see you, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, the other big political story tonight concerns Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and whether some new reports on Hillary Clinton means the Democrats are about to hit the 2016 panic button.  We'll show you why.

Plus, we are hearing even more from the mom who is challenging the Black Lives Matters protesters about why they are defending what she calls thugs, and ignoring victims like this 9-year-old girl killed by a stray bullet in her home while doing her homework. Lieutenant Colonel Allen West and Richard Fowler are here next on the angry message from Peggy Hubbard.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little girl is dead. You say Black Lives Matter, her life matters. Her dreams matter. Her future matters. Her promises matter. It matters.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, there are a lot of people in the black community who actually think the way that I do. But it's very risky to actually say it because then you'll be called a name. You'll be scorned and that is what the established progressive party wants.


KELLY: That was Dr. Ben Carson last night, right here on the Kelly File, talking about his recent message to the black community that protests against police -- that he says those protests are distracting from the bigger problems they face. Now other 2016 GOP candidates are starting to take on the Black Lives Matter movement. Both Senator Rand Paul and Governor Scott Walker today taking heat for their comments, and one Missouri mom is defending her attack on the protesters after she called them out for marching to defend what she called a thug killed by police, while ignoring the death of a 9-year-old girl killed by a stray bullet just a day earlier. Here again is Peggy Hubbard.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy dies and all of a sudden there's a full blown riot in the neighborhood I grew up in, and there is nothing for her.  And we are hollering Black Lives Matter. He had his chance to matter. He chose his path. He chose his destiny. She never got her destiny. She never got her promises. Her life mattered. Her dreams mattered. Her vision mattered. She could have been the next Secretary of State, she could have been the next Attorney General. She never got a chance.


KELLY: Lieutenant Colonel Allen West is a Former Congressman and CEO of the National Center for Policy Analysis, and Richard Fowler is a Nationally Syndicated Radio Host. Richard, let me start with you on this.  Where is she going wrong?

RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: I don't think it is wrong at all. I think this young girl's life mattered. And I was in St. Louis last week and if I remember correctly being there, there was a rally for her and a vigil for her life where the police and community showed up together and talked about how they can work on making the community safer, right? But here's the thing, how do we stop a stray bullet from killing this young girl? We get illegal guns off the streets, we provide more background checks, and we limit high capacity magazines, all things you can do to make sure that another young girl doesn't die.

KELLY: So it's the guns, Colonel West. It's the guns.

FOWLER: That's what killed her.

KELLY: Pleasure to be with you, Megyn. That is always the fallback and the excuse. But when you look at the Fourth of July weekend in Chicago, which has some of the most restricted gun laws in United States of America, you had ten black individuals that lost their lives to include Amare Brown, a 7-year-old boy, some 50 were wounded because of guns. And if Richard is correct they should not be any gun violence in Chicago because they have those restrictive laws. As a matter of fact, there would not be the thousands of people that have lost their lives or even in Baltimore you would not have an epidemic of shootings there where you have some of the most restrictive gun laws. The bottom line is that there are people in the Democratic Party, Liberal progressives, that don't want to face the facts, that there are failed policies within the black community, within the urban centers that are causing the breakdown of the family, they are causing the lack of education opportunities, that's causing the lack of small business entrepreneurship.

KELLY: Speak to that last point in particular, Richard, the breakdown of the family, and the role that is playing and not being addressed.

FOWLER: Listen, nothing breaks down a family. Love is what makes a family a family. It's not having a father or mother in the family.


KELLY: Totally irrelevant, absentee fathers and 70 plus percent of these families meaningless to you.

FOWLER: It is. I'm from an absentee father and I'm sitting right here on the show with...


KELLY: And you are the rule, not the exception.

FOWLER: No, I think that -- don't get me wrong, I think that we need more opportunities in our community, and how we do that is by providing proper funding, creating community centers, mentorship. That's how we do it. But if you talk to police chief in Chicago, what he will tell you are the reason why streets in Chicago are so violent is because of illegal guns being on those streets. The first thing we have got to do -- whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or indifferent is get those illegal guns off the streets, how you do it, providing background checks at gun shows, limiting high capacity magazines.


KELLY: Richard, how does that address the people who want to kill?  There are other ways to do it. We have seen machete attacks.

FOWLER: Machete attacks don't kill 51 people. I agree with you, we have to address the urge too, but you cannot change hearts and minds. You have to change is policy and procedure.

KELLY: All right. I will give it to you, Colonel West. I guess if we just get rid of the one weapon we can stop the murders.


WEST: Well first of all, it was a black gentleman who challenged the gun control laws in Chicago because he did not feel safe in his home. The second thing is we are in the 50th year of the great society programs of Lyndon Baines Johnson. And one of the things that he did was he promised women who have children out of wedlock a check from the government and as long as they never had a man in the home they will continue to get a check, 50 years ago, the two parent household in the black community was at 77 percent. Today it is 25 percent. Let's talk about the real issues. It's not about a gun.


WEST: Richard, I own -- these aren't talking points.


KELLY: You guys are wonderful, though. This is why we need like an online segment to expand. I wanted to keep going but they -- they wrap me so often. Ok, great to see you both. You can just hear what they are saying in my ear. This is a good segment. They are doing it again.

Well, the other big political story tonight concerns Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and whether some new reports on Hillary Clinton mean Democrats are about to hit the 2016 panic button. Look, she's pressing it right there. We'll show you why.

Plus, new questions are surfacing in a rape case that unfolded at one of America's most prestigious private schools.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the world headquarters of Fox News it's the Kelly File, with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: Well, we have seen a series of reports surfacing this week, suggesting Vice President Joe Biden could soon enter the 2016 race for President. And he may now have the blessing of President Obama, as the Hillary Clinton controversies continue and her poll numbers continue to head south. Howard Kurtz is back with us, he's the Host of Fox News' Media Buzz, and Matt Bennett is Senior Vice President of the Think Tank Third Way, Matt, good to see you back again. So you tell me whether all this buzz about Joe Biden is some sort of a maneuver or whether this man is seriously getting into this race and he's going to challenge Hillary Clinton?

MATT BENNETT, THIRD WAY SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT: Well, first let me say I don't know for sure. I have enormous respect for Vice President Biden.  I think he'd make a great President. But I don't think in the end he is going to run for President. I do think that -- well, because I think he recognizes how high a hill he would have to climb here. Not only is Secretary Clinton the kind of unbelievable favorite, we haven't seen a non- incumbent favorite like this in Presidential politics in a long time. But also this is really late in the cycle. I worked in 2004 for Wes Clark, who joined the race right around this time. And let me tell you, we were scrambling to build the ship as we sailed it. It is just really, really hard.


KELLY: But he is the Vice President, unlike Wes Clark. He is the Vice President of the United States. And according to the reports, he met with President Obama yesterday for lunch, he received the President's blessing, he met with Elizabeth Warren over the weekend, and the reports are suggesting that the Democrats are itching for an alternative -- and electable alternative, which many believe Bernie Sanders, may not be.

BENNETT: Count me in that number. But I don't think Democrats are searching for an alternative. I do think the Vice President is looking seriously at the race, and he's thinking about it hard. He has got his family to consider, and he has got this really difficult question to wrestle with. He started running for President almost 30 years ago in 1987. He knows what it is to run for President. He knows how difficult it is, he knows how long the odds can be even as a sitting Vice President especially when he's trying to get in this late against a candidate as formidable as Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: But the question is whether the Democrats are having the backup plan just in case the email problems turn out to be a real thing that disqualifies her in some way. If you are talking about some people are using the F word, felony. And so if that happens they're going to need a backup. However, Howie, sort of the love fest around Joe Biden that has overcome many in the media today it's going to go away really soon if he joins the race, because this is not how we operate.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Yeah, it will go away the day he gets in, and suddenly all this praise that's being heaped on the as an alternative to Hillary -- and he is very likable guy.  Journalists like him, he's warm, and he slaps back vice president and all that. The day he gets in more media scrutiny and review of dumb things he's ever said, et cetera. But I must say the Biden camp's shrewd handling of the media on this with calculated leaks about talking to donors, well he might do it or might not do it, is keeping drama alive, it's putting him at the center of the conversation, and it's furthering the impression that the Democrats need an alternative to Hillary, who despite all of her problems, the email stories, and mishandling of it -- of the media remains very popular with Democrats.

KELLY: What about the fact, Matt, that her poll numbers really are hurting. As you look at the objective evidence, and by the way her campaign manager says we are not nervous at all. But they say they're not nervous, but if you look at the polls -- this is one out of swing state of Michigan, where Hillary Clinton just in February was at 67 percent, just in July she was at 62.8 percent, and now she's at 49 percent. And you can see similar trends in many of the swing states, she's losing right now in that state to Jeb Bush. Sorry, those numbers are from the Real Clear Politics, I think that's national. But she is losing right now in Michigan to Jeb Bush.

BENNETT: Yeah, look, keep in mind that August is the weird and silly season for Presidential politics. It's like watching pre-season NFL games to decide who is going to be good. You can't tell from polling going on right now. The people paying attention are the people who know who ate a corn dog at the Iowa State Fair, the people who are religiously following this. Others just haven't tuned in yet.

KELLY: Great to see you both, quickly, Howie, quickly.

KURTZ: The problem, she's lost the ability to make news and change the subject. She has done two national TV interviews. And she keeps talking about policy.

KELLY: No time like the present, Hillary. No time like the present.


KELLY: New questions coming up now in a rape case that involves one of America's most prestigious private schools, St. Paul's Prep School in Concord, New Hampshire. And an on campus contest to see which students could rack up the most sexual conquests. Trace Gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with the story, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Megyn, St. Paul's has long been known as Ivy League prep school. But the trial is placing the school's culture under a very harsh light. Because it turns out nearly everyone, including the dean of students knew about the so-called senior salute, a competition to see who can have sex with the most younger students. They alleged victim in this case who was 15 at the time, says she accepted the defendant Owen Labrie senior salute invitation, but thought it was just a kiss, and wasn't prepared for his aggressive approach. Saying, she felt violated and like she had no control. Today, an investigator testified that when she first contacted Owen Labrie, allegations that he raped the younger classmate, Labrie, who was a divinity student, broke down and cried, and then denied the sex, saying that he stopped himself in a moment of divine inspiration. His classmates say he gave them a very different impression.  Listen.


GALLAGHER: What was the message she conveyed to you?

TUCKER MARCHESE, FORMER CLASSMATE: Certainly a smile, but I had left under the impression that they did have sex.


GALLAGHER: Other classmates claim Labrie was trying to win the senior salute contest and would brag about his conquests on Facebook. The defense claims there was no rape. Owen Labrie was accepted to Harvard but he has not enrolled. He is facing decades in prison and could testify in his own defense as early as tomorrow, Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Up next, a special message for a man with whom you have become very familiar.


KELLY: In closing, a message from a man, many of you have come to know well, a gentleman, a class act. A smart, kind, strong man, the kind of person who makes you want to be better, do better, my husband Doug Brunt, who was born on this day in 1971. Thank you, thank you, and is with our three kids right now at the beach. Happy birthday, Dugger. I bought him a Donald Trump tie.  

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