Carly Fiorina lays out her plan for border security
Republican presidential candidate explains her immigration reform agenda on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 19, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Breaking tonight, a first for Donald Trump, the candidate opening himself up to a Q&A directly from the voters tonight in the battle ground state of New Hampshire. So, how did he do? You are about to see.
Good evening, everybody. And welcome to "The Kelly File." I'm Martha MacCallum in tonight for Megyn Kelly. So, Mr. Trump on the campaign trail in the state that will hold the first in the nation primary. He fielded questions from the press and then he launched into a free willing exchange in his very first town hall which is as you can imagine he appeared to enjoy quite a bit. His rivals were all spread out all over town doing the same thing at the same time in this intense contest for attention. And one of them came out swinging against him. We'll tell you who later. Some of the new polls out today suggest the man who some people thought would never run may now have as much support out there as Hillary Clinton does.
Fox digital politics editor Chris Stirewalt and host of Fox News "MediaBuzz" Howard Kurtz are both here with me tonight and the new numbers that show Trump's gaining some serious ground.
But first, let's take you to New Hampshire so you can see some of this yourself. Mr. Trump dished out zingers to both his GOP rivals and to Hillary Clinton and took on his controversial immigration plan, common core and a whole lot more. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to work on numerous things. The first thing is building a wall which Mexico will pay for. Okay. We are going to build it. I know how to do it. It's going to be a real wall and not a toy wall like we have right now. That's 10 feet tall and it's a fence. A real wall. And people are going to come into our country. And I want people to come in. I want people of great talent to come in. But I want a lot of people to come in. They have to come in legally. They've got to come in. If we don't have them come in legally, we don't have a country. We don't have borders we don't have a country.
There's a very big question as to the anchor babies. They have been talking about it for years. There's a very big question as to whether or not the 14th Amendment actually covers this. We will find out whether or not it does. Changing the 14th Amendment would take years and years, a long drawn out process. A lot of people think that it is absolutely in terms of anchor babies that it is not covered. So, we will going to find out. But look, here is what happened. Wait a minute. Wait. Wait. Wait. Here's what is happening. A woman is going to have a baby. They wait on the border. Just before the baby they come over to the border. They have the baby in the United States.
We now take care of that baby. Social Security, Medicare, education. Give me a break. It doesn't work that way. The parents have to come in legally. Have I gotten under Jeb Bush's skin? I don't know. I will tell you this. You mentioned the word skin. He said the other day one of the dumber things I have heard ever in politics when talking about Iraq that we the United States he said have to show them that we have skin in the game in order to go into Iraq. We've lost $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors who I love all over the place, and he's talking about we have to show them that we have skin in the game? And every time a shot is fired they run?
For him to say that we have to show them that we have skin in the game is one of the really dumb statements. I'd say his other dumb statement is an act of love, that they come here for an act of love. And I would say, between common core, his act of love on immigration, and skin in the game with Iraq, that's the third one that we've now added, I don't see how he's electable. I think it's crazy. I think the whole Iran deal is the dumbest deal that you can imagine. I think it's going to go down as one of the worse deals in the history of this country and maybe of the world.
It is a total and complete catastrophe and, you know, it is beyond even talking about. It's hard to believe that people -- do we have negotiators, do we have anybody that knows what they are doing? Was he wealthy? He let us down. Mitt Romney let us down. He should have won that election. He failed. He choked. In the end, no different than a golfer that misses a putt on the 18th hole. No different than a man who strikes out a baseball player. He let us down. Mitt Romney should have won that election, and he didn't. Something happened to him. And that's not going to happen to me.
You know, I read a lot of the phony reports, a couple of reports today in the paper saying, oh, well, you know, when Donald Trump gets tired of doing this, he is doing great and he's leading all the polls. But some point you'll get -- I'm not going anywhere, folks. I'm not doing this for my health. I'm doing this to make America great again. And again is a very important word. Very important word. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. I got a lot of money. I don't need people funding me like the other candidates. I have people coming up all the time wanting to give me millions of dollars. Five million dollars last week I turned down from one man.
I said, I don't want your money. And I think that resonates with people. I really think it resonates with people. Somebody wrote an article that I was a whiner, that I complained. And I said, no, he's actually right. I do complain because our country is in trouble. We are run by people that either are not smart, perhaps they are incompetent, perhaps they have a bad agenda which I actually don't believe. I think they are just not very good at what they do. I think they are incompetent. And said, I'm a whiner, I'm a complainer. And I am, I'm a complainer. And I said, I complain and complain and I whine and I whine until I win and then I win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: And then I win. But Mr. Trump wasn't done yet. Following that Q&A with the press, he went into another room and spoke to a packed crowd of supporters where he took more questions in between what was pretty much constant cheers. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I heard that Jeb Bush, that Marco Rubio, that Governor Walker. Who? That's what they're saying, who? They are going to spend a huge amount of money on fighting Trump. And I say, I think that is okay. Haven't you heard everything already? It is like, sort of like getting boring. So, I think, you know, he can listen, listen -- fired -- but I just heard it. They said they're going to spend -- I love these rowdy crowds. Isn't it great? This spirit. The spirit!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
You know what? I'll tell you what? You know what is happening to Jeb's crowd as you know right down the street? They are sleeping. They are sleeping now. But more than anything else they are politicians. Very good, thank you, I love that word. You know, I had to fill out a form, I was on jury duty the other day. Did you see it?
(APPLAUSE)
And I enjoyed it. And actually, it was a great experience. But I had to fill out a form and they said, profession. It was a line. It said. What profession. What is your profession? And I said, I refuse to say I'm a politician. I can't say it. So if you people don't mind you know what I did? I put real estate. Okay? I just couldn't say these politicians, I can't take them. You get a deal signed. They're dancing in the streets of Iran. They are calling for the destruction of Israel and the destruction of the United States. And we're saying, when do we sign? I have never seen anything like it. I have never seen anything, you know, I did write "The Art of the Deal." Does anybody ever hear "The Art of the Deal"?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Good. Bring it up. Come on. Give me that book. Nice guy. Should I sign it? Give me that book. Come on. Give me that. See? Great.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
President Obama, Secretary Kerry, I highly think you should read this book quickly. Quickly! Quickly!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Most of this horror show has taken place over the last 20 years, wouldn't you say? I mean, just, don't mention the word Christmas and you can't do this and you can't do that. It's out of control and that will change with me. Believe me. I will be fighting and I will be winning because I win. I win. I'm somebody that wins. And that will change. And you know another thing that's going to change? We are in very sad shape as a country and we are more concerned about being politically correct than we are about victory than we are about winning. And I think that's all fine but we are not going to be so politically correct anymore.
We are going to get things done. We are going to make this country special. And you know I say sometimes that the American dream is dead but we are going to make it bigger and better and stronger than ever before and we are going to do that. And the bottom-line is we are going to make America great again and I really love you people and I really appreciate your support. And I want to thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Having a terrible time out there. He told the crowd he is not going anywhere. And why should he, he is leading in the polls among the GOP.
Plus, a brand new poll that shows how he would fair and stack up against Hillary Clinton which we're going to show you in a moment. Analysis is coming up with these two gentlemen. Fine folks they are. Chris Stirewalt and Howard Kurtz will join us in a moment away.
Plus, while Trump has been grabbing the headlines in anchor baby debate in particular today, Carly Fiorina is fighting to move herself up the ladder. But what will she do about the border? She joins us live to lay it out.
And first, it was the NAACP and now a leading activist for the group Black Lives Matter may not be black at all. His strange interesting tale. We will tell you.
Dana Loesch reacts to this "Kelly File" investigation coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Guys like Perry and our senator from South Carolina Lindsey Graham who's got zero. How do you get zero? Could you explain it to me? How do you get zero? Does that mean that thousands of people polled you get none? But he has nothing. The people that attacked me, now Rand Paul is going down the tubes. And he hit me all of a sudden. I mean, he was doing very poorly. He hit me, he went down. One of the great honors is that everybody that attacks me seems to go down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Donald Trump arguing why he thinks he is the best Republican candidate for president as -- New Hampshire tonight. And a new poll out today suggests that he has made some serious gains against the woman who could wind up being his democratic opponent as well. Take a look. This is the -- look across the summer, at how these two match up. So you've got back in June, Trump trails Hillary Clinton by 24 points just a couple of months ago in the CNN poll. In July, he closed that gap to 16. Today he trails her by just six points and that has folks on both sides of the aisle wondering what this means for the future of this race.
Chris Stirewalt is our Fox News digital politics editor. Howard Kurtz is the host of Fox News "MediaBuzz." And we start tonight with Chris. Chris, good to see you. Good evening.
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Good to see you.
MACCALLUM: It's nice move form over the summer.
STIREWALT: Well, yes. And it's also reflective of the fact that Hillary Clinton, it's hard to tell someday whether Hillary Clinton is running a tire fire or a campaign. She has had a horrendous summer and she finds new ways to make it worse. She finds news ways to be insulting or degrading to voters, to be dismissive of their questions. She is having as bad a summer as Donald Trump is having a good. And on that level, you are not surprised to see the margins close but we also see that Hillary Clinton is in a tough race and I like our poll more than CNN's poll. No offense CNN. I'm sure it's a classy and wonderful poll as Donald Trump would say. But our poll shows that we have a cluster of Republicans who are all within the summer ahead but all within striking distance of Hillary Clinton.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Let's put up our poll that shows Trump at 42, Hillary Clinton at 47 in the FOX poll. Let's take a look at the other big one from CNN that has Trump on top at 24 percent and the rest of these folks really struggling to get some traction. And one other though, this is the one that is sort of the more troublesome for Donald Trump. Fifty eight percent of Republicans believe that they would be better off with somebody else, Chris.
STIREWALT: Yes.
MACCALLUM: So, you know, there's lots of enthusiasm. He literally in the moments that we just watched in this town hall in New Hampshire, he hit every single hot button issue that he knows is going to get that crowd whipped up. He is enjoying this Chris so much and, you know, what we haven't seen perhaps that kind of joy coming out from some of these other candidates. You know, and a lot of people said, though Trump is not going to want to do this retail politics stuff, he's not going to want to spend time in New Hampshire. He's not going to spend time in Iowa. Look at him, Chris. I mean, he is having the time of his life right now.
STIREWALT: He's having the time of his life right now. And in so far as the republican field remains deeply segment Donald Trump and Jeb Bush essentially have the same kind of numbers, which is a group of people that support them. There's a lot of people in their own party and across the broad-spectrum that say, we don't want you, we don't like you. Donald Trump has the advantage though that he is generating excitement and he is generating enthusiasm. So, his hope, the plan, the way forward for Donald Trump is that the republican field stay just as segmented as it is.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
STIREWALT: If it starts to consolidate and he starts to slip into second place or third place. Then the test for joyfulness comes in.
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this. Because he also brought something up earlier tonight, he said, you know, I hear that, you know, the candidates that I'm running against are getting together, they're going to start spending a lot of money basically doing anti-Trump commercials. He said I think everything is out there, that is bad about me. Should he be worried about that?
STIREWALT: I don't think that it is, I don't think Donald Trump's biggest worry are television commercials. Yes, at some point, there will be an effort inside the Republican Party to say, are you sure -- are you really really sure that you want the host of the "Apprentice" to be your party's nominee? But then, there is nothing thing that will happen which is it is summer now and it is fun now. It is fun for him. It's fun for everybody. The question is, how does it feel when you get into September and October and we have two or three more debates and Donald Trump has been around for months and months and months. How does it feel for him and how does it feel voters?
MACCALLUM: Yes. It's going to get really interesting come fall. Chris, thank you very much.
Let's bring in Howard now and talk a little bit about another phenomenon that happened for Hillary Clinton. And some of these quotes that I'm reading from some in the more liberal sides of the media Howard are pretty stunning because the love fest for Hillary Clinton appears to have ended this week among them.
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIA BUZZ": Part of what is happening Martha and this contrasting poll numbers is that Trump has handled the media brilliantly. And Hillary has handled the media abysmally. So, we have the mainstream media and some liberal columnist saying things like, she is insulting our intelligence on the email mess, using phrases like in the bunker and tone deaf. They are really churning to some degree on the former first lady, just at a time when many pundits who had laughed and ridicule Donald Trump are starting to take him more seriously. Just look at tonight. He holds a town meeting in New Hampshire. So does Jeb Bush. So does Chris Christie. The three cable networks all take a big chunk of Trump and you teed up your segment about nine minutes of Trump's sound, securing the knowledge I think that people would not be reaching for remotes to turn it off.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And Jeb Bush, you know, we have some people looking at that one, too. Apparently it is a smaller crowd. And, you know, this is a long race, obviously. And there is plenty of time for some topsy- turvy in these polls. And I would imagine that that's exactly what we're going to see. But, you know, when you look at the Hillary enthusiasm side as we were just talking about. And you look at quotes like this from the National Journal's Ron Fournier, he says, a year ago, if you would have asked me, hey, would you consider working for Secretary Clinton? I would say, yes. I'd think about it.
Now, I don't know if I can trust Hillary Clinton anymore. And it doesn't make me happy to say that. And those numbers are echoed in her trust among the voters. She has got a lot of work to do Howard, to gain that back. And you know, we looked at the, you know, the Orange Press Conference that she held, a lot of shrugging. A lot of, you know, sort of difficult moments. That was not her finest moment to be sure.
KURTZ: And I was really struck by those comments by Fournier who has known Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton a long time. Look, Hillary Clinton has given one national television interview, that one CNN weeks ago apparently going to be on "Ellen" in a few weeks. And when she does deal with reporters as we saw on the Tuesday press conference she comes off as kind of legalistic and cautious and she did not get ready for views in the media at all digging herself deeper as the questions mount about the email mess. And, you know, by contrast Trump, you know, calls in to three shows before breakfast and he knows how to generate news, and how to drive news cycle whether it's making jokes, attacking his rivals, beating up on the media. You know, a lot of people tell me, we give too much air time and -- to Donald Trump. I think he earns it because he knows how to make news. Hillary Clinton by contrast seems to be making news only in a negative way appearing to be on the defensive.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, he was driving the story too. I mean, the anchor baby discussion is now --
KURTZ: Everybody.
MACCALLUM: -- something that every single other candidate is weighing in on and trying to sound, you know, stronger and differentiate themselves on that issue. So, he is driving the conversation to be sure. Howard, thank you. Good to see you as always.
KURTZ: My pleasure. Same here.
MACCALLUM: So coming up next, Dr. Ben Carson makes a trip to the border to see the illegal immigration problem first-hand and he makes a surprising admission about what he would do with those who are here in this country illegally.
Plus, Carly Fiorina will be here live with her plan for immigration reform and her reaction to her boost in the polls.
And take a look at this. Really? A message that says save a life, kill a cop. The details on that, just ahead.
And then there is this, folks. Cheaters exposed, hackers reveal personal details on millions of the users of the popular Ashley Madison website which I'm happy to say I never heard about before this hacking happened. We will talk to a lawyer about the legal fallout, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, presidential candidate Ben Carson drew some big crowds as he toured Arizona. Today, he went to the border to discuss security and immigration reform. But it is what he said about ending birth right citizenship. This has really become a hot button issue over the past couple of days. And what he said about it is getting a lot of attention tonight. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we're smart people and I think we can come up with appropriate ways to do things, but for a woman to be pregnant and say, I'm going to go to the United States and have my baby there so that I have an anchor, that is stupid. Why would we fall for that? If they came over here and did that, we can still keep them together by packaging them up and sending them back. They will still be together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Sounds familiar. Right?
Joining me now with that and some more about her own campaign, republican presidential candidate and former CEO of Hewlett Packard Carly Fiorina. Carly, welcome. Good to have you here tonight.
CARLY FIORINA, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nice to be with you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: All right. So, now you have basically Donald Trump and Ben Carson sounding the same tune saying that it shouldn't happen, that people shouldn't cross the border, have a baby and then get the benefits of being in this country, that we should package up those families so we're not separating them and send them back where they came from. What do you say?
FIORINA: You know, what I have been saying for a long time now, long before Donald Trump declared his candidacy actually is that immigration is a festering problem that we talk about every election cycle and yet somehow it never gets fixed. First we need to secure the border. It takes money, it takes manpower, it takes technology but mostly apparently it takes leadership and political will power. And it is our job to secure our border because a nation that cannot secure its border cannot protect its sovereignty. Secondly, we need to fix the legal immigration system which has been broken for as long as the border has been insecure about 25 years.
And by fixing the legal immigration system what I mean is that half the people who are here illegally came on a legal visa and overstayed it. We didn't know and we didn't do anything about it. We are handing out border crossing cards every day on the Mexican border which permits someone to come for one day and we never check to see if they go home. We don't have an employer verification system that works. It needs to be mandatory. We need to close down these sanctuary cities so they can't flout the law. All of that needs to happen and then we need to decide what should happen with those who have come here illegally and stayed here illegally. And in my view, they do not earn a pathway to citizenship. Perhaps someday they can earn some kind of legal status but they can't be citizens because there has to be consequence for people who have done it the right way. Take in the oath, learn our history.
MACCALLUM: Well, let me ask you this in terms of the anchor baby issue and the birthright that anyone who is born here becomes an American citizen, it's in the constitution. Is that something we should change in your opinion?
FIORINA: No. It is not. It is in our constitution, it has been in our constitution for a very long time. And actually, it would take a constitutional amendment to change it. And so once again what I find disturbing about this conversation a little bit is that we talk about things in election cycles but don't really talk about what it would take to get them done. It would take a constitutional amendment to get that done. And I think it is far more important now that we focus all of our political energy on doing what we haven't done in 25 years, securing the border and fixing the legal immigration system.
MACCALLUM: What are you hearing, you know, when you are traveling around New Hampshire today, you know, what are you hearing from people you are talking to? What is their biggest concerns?
FIORINA: You know, I have been out doing town hall meetings in places like New Hampshire and Iowa and South Carolina and elsewhere all across the country for many months now. And I hear the same things all the time. First, people are concerned about a set of issues that are not going to be surprising to you. Job creation, economic growth, education, health care, national security, immigration, all of those things matter to them. Secondly, they are sick and tired of politics as usual. They are tired of politicians saying something and never delivering results.
They are tired of festering problems. I think they are tired of people talking about, for example, reducing the size of government and yet it doesn't happen in 30 years. And that is why someone like me gains support because what they see is a track record of problem solving and leadership. They see someone who understands the economy, somebody who understands the world and who is in it and how it works, somebody who understands bureaucracies which is what the government has become and it needs to get cut down to size and somebody who understands technology which is pretty important now as well.
MACCALLUM: Well, you moved up into the top ten so that message seems to be giving you some traction. It is good to talk to you tonight. Carly Fiorina, thank you very much.
FIORINA: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: And coming up, a "Kelly File" exclusive. A Wisconsin woman's home ransacked and raided by law enforcement, according to her. Her personal items confiscated. She was told she could not call a lawyer and she claims that it was all because of an effort to take down Governor Scott Walker. It sounds like such a bizarre story. There are several just like it. And she joins us with hers.
And a leading voice in Black Lives Matter, in that movement. The question tonight whether he is actually a white man who is pretending to be black. Why would he do that, one of the issues here that underlie this story and reaction from Dana Loesch and Andell Brown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Developing tonight, police are investigating a disturbing scene in Nashville, after people there woke up to the sight of this message, save a life, kill a cop, written on the side of a storage trailer. The trailer's owner said that the message was not there last night, and he was shocked to see it this morning. He since hired a painter to cover up the hateful graffiti. Police are taking vandalism and its message seriously.
And tonight, there are new questions about the background of a man named Sean King. He is a prominent activist in the Black Lives Matter movement. And this comes after a new report alleges that King may have lied about his ethnicity. Trace Gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with the story tonight. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Hi, Martha. No one disputes that Sean King was born in 1979 in Versailles, Kentucky, population 8,500. Beyond that there seems to be very little agreement. Sean King has always said his mom who raised him is white, his father who wasn't around is black. Now some conservative media outlets including Breitbart, the Blaze, and the Daily Caller, claim that King, a prominent leader in the Black Lives Matter movement is not black, and that he has been lying to everyone from fellow activists to Oprah Winfrey. King won a free ride scholarship from Oprah to attend historically black Morehouse College. But Sean King is now responding questioning these outlets' journalistic credibility, saying they got their information from a blogger he calls a known white supremacist. King then uses social media to point by point refute their allegations and reinforce his life story, even having a former teacher and classmate corroborate his account of being beaten so badly by local red necks in high school that he suffered spinal damage. The friend writes "He never saw what hit him. He never had a chance. I didn't stop to count how may attacked him, but the number was easily in the neighborhood of a dozen. They were big white farm boys." But Breitbart also claims to have gotten Sean King's birth certificate, listing his father as Jeffrey Wayne King, the only Jeffrey Wayne King in Kentucky who is white. Sean King has not responded to the birth certificate allegation, except to say his family is one big mess, quoting again, "Like many of you, I have siblings I don't know, siblings I'm estranged from, and a family full of secrets, divorce, affairs, and etcetera." King ends by saying he is done addressing this matter, Martha.
MACCALLUM: With more on this, we turn to Dana Loesch, the Host of Dana on the Blaze TV, and Civil Rights Attorney Andell Brown. Welcome, to both of you. Dana, why is this so important?
DANA LOESCH, DANA ON THE BLAZE TV HOST: Well Martha, I will be honest with you, until a few days ago I thought he was a white dude. I had no idea that he was pretending or telling people that he was black. And I know some people out there are asking that very question that you just did right now. Well why does this matter? It matters because for the past year we have heard this phrase white privilege thrown around, thrown in people's faces. It's been used as a way to divide. Sean King by the way isn't the first, Rachel Dolezal was the second and now he's the third. And it just seems incredibly ironic. And it matters because of the language and divisiveness that we have seen come out of this movement.
MACCALLUM: Andell, do you agree?
ANDELL BROWN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I think it is divisive to be wondering whether this person is black or white. Why does it matter? We are worried about the content of the character, not the color of their skin. If he stands for justice and equality then he is with the tradition of many people of all colors and ethnicities that have stood up for justice and equality in this nation. That is what makes us great, many different people banding together and standing up for what's right. It doesn't matter if he's black or white.
MACCALLUM: I remember the same argument being made with Rachel Dolezal discussion. She was the head of an NAACP chapter, and what was odd though was that she had presented herself as an African-American in order to get scholarships. And that also appears to be part of this story as well, if indeed what is found is true. It raises questions about misrepresenting yourself in general in order to gain some sort of advantage. As everyone said about Rachel Dolezal, if she had just come out and said I'm a white person who cares deeply about these issues and I feel I have every right to run this organization because I feel strongly about it, nobody would have a problem with it. That is where the rub appears to be.
LOESCH: And Martha, to get into that as well, we are talking about a guy who has sat as judge and jury of other people's race. He had once suggested to a friend of mine, Lawrence Jones, who is a black conservative that he wasn't black enough somehow. I have watched this guy sit here and call people white supremacist and use the term white privilege, and throw around these terms. So yeah, if you are going to throw around those terms and be out in someone's face as the judge and jury of blackness or whiteness, and this comes up and there are records showing that your dad is white, yeah it becomes an issue because it shows it is ironic and you are a hypocrite.
MACCALLUM: And if the color doesn't matter Andell, then why throw all of those phrases around from him?
BROWN: Well, I don't know what phrases you are referring to, but even Jesus when asked about his brother and his mother said those people that do my father's will and obey what he says, those are my brothers and sisters.
LOESCH: Jesus never lied about being black.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I'm going to have to go with Jesus.
LOESCH: Jesus never lied about god being black. Andell, god loves you but he never did.
MACCALLUM: Andell?
BROWN: Lied about god being black. I have no idea what color god is, and why that matters. The blood covers everybody. It's not about black or white.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: I think you both made some good points. The bottom line is you need to represent yourself in an honest way, especially when you're talking about racial issues. And if that is not the case of what happened here, then he needs to speak up.
BROWN: We love everybody.
LOESCH: Quit using the term white, Andell.
MACCALLUM: Dana, love you both. We'll see you next time. Thanks for being here.
So coming up next, this story, the raids that rocked Wisconsin supporters of Governor Scott Walker are over. But the families who experienced them are finally telling their stories after they were told that they should not speak about this to anyone. Strange doings in the United States of America wait until you hear this story.
Next, a mother and son reveal what happened to them in this "The Kelly File" exclusive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Midnight raids on their homes, police with battering rams breaking down their front doors at midnight at 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. Never explained why law enforcement was after them. They were forbidden to tell anybody what was going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was Radio Host Rush Limbaugh back in April detailing the raids in Wisconsin that were stopped for good just a few weeks ago. Tonight, in the Kelly File exclusive, a Wisconsin mother and son break their silence for the first time on television. They will tell us how their home was raided and ransacked in what they call an attempt to take down the Republican Governor of their state, the now Presidential Candidate, Scott Walker. But first, let's go to Trace Gallagher who gives us some background on this from our west coast news room tonight, Trace.
GALLAGHER: Martha, the Wisconsin Supreme Court has now put a stop to the John Doe investigation, saying that Wisconsin law enforcement was investigating crimes that were not crimes. Under the John Doe Law, prosecutors had vast authority to seize documents and compel people who are being investigated to stay silent. Critics say this is was a partisan prosecution targeting Wisconsin conservatives and searching for evidence to discredit Republican Governor Scott Walker. The investigations included a series of pre-dawned raids by heavily armed police using battering rams. Cindy Archer who worked with Governor Walker says in 2011, when police pounded on her door and confronted her, she was completely undressed, and was afraid police would shoot her dogs. She has now filed a civil rights lawsuit challenging the prosecutor's actions. Another Walker associate, Deb Jordahl claims her kids were frightened to death when police stormed her house, and that she was not read her rights, was told to not mention the raid, and to not call a lawyer or she would be hit with contempt of court charges. The same scenario allegedly took place eight more times at different homes. Critics call it bullying by people with badges and law degrees saying the targets were guilty of nothing more than their first amendment rights to support conservative charges. Listen.
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ERIC O'KEEFE, WISCONSIN CLUB FOR GROWTH: It came after my team because they were effective in political communications, they were resented by the prosecutors -- in league with the left representing the left attitude towards Scott Walker's union reforms, and they used -- under color of law, they pursued us with tactics which themselves are severe punishment.
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GALLAGHER: Investigators say the various accounts of police storming these homes are an exaggeration. They won't call them raids and they say the investigations were legitimate, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Fascinating.
Joining me now in a "Kelly File" exclusive, Deb Jordahl and her son, Adam Jordahl, they say their home was raided with the approval of Milwaukee Wisconsin prosecutor prosecutors. Deb Jordahl is a Principal at Johnson- Jordahl Strategic Communications, and that once had Scott Walker as one of their clients. Deb and Adam, good evening, good to have you with us tonight. I read through the details of your story. It's a shocking story. It's a head scratcher. I think people will read it and hear it and say how these can possibly happen in the United States of America. But Deb, let me start with you. Give me a brief version of what happened that night.
DEBORAH JORDAHL, HOME WAS RAIDED IN 2013: Well, it was actually 6:00 in the morning, it was still dark out. And I saw lights out in the yard. I heard noise and shortly after that the doorbell rang. The deputy sheriff was at the door, she walked into the foyer, she said everything is ok. We have a warrant to search the house. She asked about Adam. She didn't realize we also had a daughter. And she followed me upstairs. I asked if I could go into my kids by myself to wake them up. And she followed me right in there. So when they woke up they saw an armed deputy standing next to their bed.
MACCALLUM: All right. So let me just jump in here for a second, did you have any idea why they were there at your house?
JORDAHL: No, none. At the time -- she came in and she said everything is ok, meaning nobody is dead, we are not here because of an emergency. She said we have a warrant to search the house and she wanted to gather everybody together before she read the warrant to us. So we went upstairs and got the kids and we were all corralled into our family room. She read the warrant to us. And I do want to clarify it read in the warrant was the gag order and that said we couldn't talk to anybody about the investigation, about the raid at all except a lawyer. And it was after she read the warrant and I said I wanted to call a lawyer that she told me I couldn't.
MACCALLUM: At this point are you putting together any sort of well I have done work with Scott Walker, there is a huge battle going on in the state right now, they're probably trying to figure out if I'm behind that or if I'm fighting against this or these unions actions are going on in the state? Did you already have an inkling that things were potentially getting ugly because of your support of this group?
JORDAHL: Well, what was shocking Martha, was that this was an investigation that started in 2005 over a county veterans fund. And it was 2013, we had already been through the recall campaign, we've been through the original election, and all of a sudden they were investigating us allegedly for things that we did in the 2011 and 2012 recall, so we had no idea. These John Doe investigations are conducted completely in secret. And we're not -- you know, aside from what's in the warrant, we're really not even allowed to know what it is they suspect us of doing.
MACCALLUM: And you know, I understand, we're almost out of time. But I want to ask Adam a quick question. Adam, some people say it didn't happen. You heard that in the report. How can you prove that it did?
ADAM JORDAHL, HOME WAS RAIDED IN 2013: Because some of my friends at school saw it happen. You know, you can't have four or five, you know, police cars outside your house at 6:00 in the morning without getting some questions about it later. So as soon as I got to school, a few people were asking me, are you ok? Is your family all right, like what happened? And all I could say to them was I can't tell you that. I can't tell you anything.
MACCALLUM: We saw this kind of investigation with the IRS situation, and it appears to be something of the same ilk in a very strong response. Thank you very much, more to come on that story.
And breaking tonight, new unrest in Missouri when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: We're watching a situation tonight that is new unrest in Missouri, after police fatally shot a black man. It happened in St. Louis. It happened not far from Ferguson. Trace Gallagher reports from our west coast newsroom, what's going on there on the ground, Trace?
GALLAGHER: And the reason, Martha, we're not getting brand new pictures is because we're being told that our affiliate is not on the scene because some concern there about some of the protesters maybe having weapons and the news crews don't feel it's safe right now. There have been reports of some unrest and some tear gas being fired in the St. Louis area. We're talking about North St. Louis. We're told that St. Louis police were executing a search warrant and were about to search a home when two armed men ran out the back door. One of the men turned and fired at police officers we're told who were in pursuit. Police then fired back, killing the man. He has not yet been identified, except that he is a black man in his 20s. And police say he was carrying a stolen gun, a .9 millimeter that apparently had been stolen from some 100, 110 miles away. The other suspect is still on the run tonight. When they went back inside the house in concluded the search warrant, they found crack cocaine, and they found four other weapons. Remember, this comes one year to the day of another prominent shooting in the North St. Louis area that also led to unrest. It comes one year and ten days after the shooting of Michael Brown. We know what that led to. The police officers who were involved in today's shooting, Martha, have, as is standard procedure, been placed on administrative leave. More as it comes in.
MACCALLUM: All right, Trace, thank you. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back, but first, coming up on Hannity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is the old adage that it's not just the crime, it's the cover-up, her wiping the server and then being unwilling to admit that, that certainly raises a lot of questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Still coming up tomorrow, a pretty good line-up. Governor Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Sheriff David Clark, Marc Thiessen, and Brian Kilmeade, and my friend Bill Hemmer and I will see you in this same space right here in the morning. Thanks for watching tonight, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum, have a good night, this is "The Kelly File."
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