Sen. Jeff Sessions on helping Trump craft immigration plan
Presidential candidate tells NBC illegals 'have to go;' promises he will not split families on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 17, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, GUEST HOST: Breaking tonight. The most controversial man in the presidential race releases what may be the most controversial immigration plan we've seen yet.
And tonight, "The Kelly File" gets an exclusive interview with the senator who helped create it. A man who just may be one of the harshest critics of the administration's current policy.
Good evening. Welcome to "The Kelly File." I'm Shannon Bream in for Megyn Kelly. Donald Trump has been stirring up emotions on immigrations since the day he announced he announced he was running for president. Well, we finally got an official plan from Trump outlining his exact ideas on how he will tackle the issues he's been talking about for weeks. And after a busy weekend of campaigning at the Iowa fair, he introduced some of those ideas during an interview which is now raising a lot of questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The executive order gets rescinded. One good thing about --
CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST, "MEET THE PRESS": You will rescind that one too?
TRUMP: One good thing about --
TODD: You'll rescind the Dream Act executive order --
TRUMP: We have to make a whole new set of standards. And when people come in --
TODD: You're going on split up families? You're going to deport children.
TRUMP: Chuck, Chuck. No, no. We're going to keep the families together. We have to keep the families together.
TODD: But you're going to --
TRUMP: But they have to go.
TODD: What if they have no place to go?
TRUMP: We will work with them. They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country or we don't have a country.
TODD: How do you do it?
TRUMP: Look at the cost of what we have right now.
TODD: The cost of doing it.
TRUMP: Let me ask you this.
TODD: I understand it. But how do you do it?
TRUMP: Do you think there's tremendous cost for the illegals that in here now?
TODD: Of course.
TRUMP: Tremendous. Do you think there's tremendous crime being committed by illegals?
TODD: There is definitely evidence that it's happened.
TRUMP: Tremendous. Far greater than -- and you've seen it all over just last night. All over. We will do it and we will expedite it so people can come back in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: In just a moment, we'll going to speak with Senator Jeff Sessions who helped Mr. Trump crack this plan.
Plus, Judge Andrew Napolitano on the constitutional problems the plan could face. But first, let's go Trace Gallagher in our West Coast Newsroom with more on what Trump is actually proposing. All right. Trace, what's there?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Shannon. Part one of Donald Trump's three part immigration reform plan is to build a wall across the southern border and to force Mexico to pay for it by impounding money illegal immigrants send back to their families and by increasing fees on everything from worker visas to border crossing cars. Part two of the plan is to defend the laws. Meaning everyone in the U.S. illegally must be deported. Here's Trump again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: You're going to split up families. You're going to deport children.
GALLAGHER: Chuck, no, no. We're going to keep the families together. We have to keep the families together.
TODD: But they have to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: They have to go. And to make sure they go, Donald Trump wants to triple the number of immigration and custom enforcement officers. He would change the policy of catch and release to catch and deport. Trump also wants federal funds taken away from sanctuary cities and he wants to end birth rights citizenship guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. Trump says, giving automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants is a magnet. Arizona republican Senator Jeff Flake disagrees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE, R-ARIZ.,: I don't see that as the big draw to come here. Mostly it is the economy and for people to come here who want a better life. Obviously, we need better border security. We also need a mechanism to deal with those who are here illegally now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Part three of the plan is to hire American workers first saying, quoting here the influx of foreign workers holds down salaries, keeps unemployment high and makes it difficult for the poor and the working class Americans including immigrants themselves and their children to earn a middle class wage. The league of united Latin American citizens calls the plan a laundry list of previously rejected ideas. Quoting again, at the very least we would have hoped that Mr. Trump had some original ideas of his own on such an important issue. But the Federation for American Immigration Reform has high praise. Saying, quote, "Whatever one might think of Donald Trump, his outline for immigration reform is a legitimate plan worthy of consideration."
NBC News says, Trump's plan would cost more than $100 billion. The Trump campaign says, the Congressional Budget Office would determine the final cost -- Shannon.
BREAM: All right, Trace. Thank you very much. As we mentioned earlier, Mr. Trump had some help in crafting the plan in a "Kelly File" exclusive.
Senator Jeff Sessions joins us. He's chair of the immigration and national interest subcommittee. Senator, always good to see you. Thank you for your time tonight.
SEN. JEFF SESSION, R-ALA., JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Thank you. Good to be with you, Shannon.
BREAM: All right. When I think of two people that I know pretty well. You and Mr. Trump, you couldn't be more different when it comes to the way you go about things. Your personalities. But tell us why you agree with him on the content of this plan that you helped to craft.
SESSIONS: Basically Shannon, it is just a mainstream plan to do what politicians have been promising to do for 30 years. And haven't done. These are things like, you have in the jobs magnet by not allowing people who are here legally to get jobs. You strengthen border enforcement. You stop the visa overstays, almost half, maybe more or now of illegal entries into the United States of people who come on visas and overstay. These are things that he talked about in his plan that are bread and butter. Basic. And need to be done. And if we do them, we'll be surprised how dramatically we can reduce the illegality. In addition to that, we need to create an immigration system that serves the interests of the American people. People are hurting today. Wages are down. Jobs are down. So, we have got to be concerned about them. And making sure that Americans are given the opportunity to get valuable jobs first.
BREAM: Well, Senator, so much of what you talk about and what we see outlined in this front is enforcement. Things that are already in place. Portions of the law that don't get enforced or they're relaxed. Or, you know, other proposal that's have been out there like e-verify. Other things that can't seem to get across the threshold. So, why do you think it will be any different? Whether it's Donald Trump or somebody else as president pushing these ideas. You know your colleagues there in the hill and how difficult it is to get these things passed?
SESSIONS: Well, you don't have to pass a lot of laws. Some smart legislation would help, no doubt about it. And I think if a president is elected on a promise to fix this border and illegality, the American people will insist that reasonable laws get passed. But basically, utilizing existing law, we can make huge differences and reduce this illegality and create a system that serves a national interests. President Obama is just flat out refusing to enforce basic law that has been on the books sometimes for a decade.
BREAM: Yes. And Senator, quickly before we're out of time, I know one of the biggest attractions to you for you for this plan is the focus on the American worker, the problem the H1B-V says is going to oversees skilled workers. And we have people graduating with those skills here in the U.S. How do you think you'll be able to get anything accomplished whether it's with Donald Trump's help or a different president?
SESSIONS: I think we've already got bipartisan support that would support that would support a plan like Trump's to fix this H1B program. And you've got to know, one thing I like about his plan is it emphasizes how this unlawful huge flow of immigration is hammering poor people. African-Americans, Hispanics who are here struggling to get a higher wage and a better promotion at work. They are being hurt by current law, and I think he is correct to say, we can help them if we do it right.
BREAM: Yes. And I know you have concerns about Silicon Valley, women and minorities not benefiting out there when this H1B-V says go out. Senator, thank you very much for joining us exclusively tonight. Thank you for your time.
SESSIONS: Thank you.
BREAM: All right. There are some aspects of Trump's plan that seem to be getting a lot of concern. Mostly his proposal to end what is commonly known as birth right citizenship. The policy of granting citizenship to anyone born in the U.S. But that would require changing the constitution I'm pretty sure.
Luckily we have an expert, Judge Andrew Napolitano is FOX News senior judicial analyst. All right. We have learned in school. And we know Judge, not easy to do something like repealing an amendment. Here we're talking about the 14th amendment, early to portion of it.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: Well, the 14th Amendment in its opening language makes it clear everyone born here is a United States citizen. This was written in the aftermath of the civil war to make certain that the former slaves and the native-Americans would be recognized as American citizens no matter what kind of prejudice there might be against them. The courts have consistently without one single case going the other way said everybody born here becomes a citizen. That means everybody. Even if the parents take them away as soon as they're here. Even if the mother walks over the border and delivers the baby and leaves. Even if they come here just because they want to take part of the welfare state. That's the constitution. It can't be changed by presidential order and I'm sure Mr. Trump knows this. And it can't even be changed by legislation. It takes two-thirds of each House of Congress to adopt the proposed amendment. And then three quarters of the states to ratify it.
BREAM: Yes. That's an easy task.
NAPOLITANO: It's a political will and they'll certainly not the time for it.
BREAM: There's definitely the heavy lifting. In the meantime, he's talked about when he was broached about breaking up families, he said, oh no, we'll keep the families together. We'll send them all out if there were some who are here illegally. That logistically --
NAPOLITANO: Well, that would be a nightmare. And here's how long it would take. So, under Supreme Court's current interpretation of the law which it can, can't be changed by Congress, every single person that the government wants to deport is entitled to a hearing and an appeal. The prosecutors who paid for by the government. The defense lawyers are paid for by the government. How long would this take? The most deportations and hearings the governments has ever done in a year is 250,000. There are between 11 and 12 million illegals here.
(CROSSTALK)
That's 40 years for those deportation hearings to be held. There's no way around it without changing the makeup of the Supreme Court and their interpretation of language and the constitution. Because the constitution protects persons, not citizens. If you want to dislodge a person, even a person here illegally, they're entitled to that hearing and they're entitled to the appeal.
BREAM: But some of these things that he talked about in the plane. He could potentially do as president rolling back President Obama's executive orders that have given people alleged amnesty.
NAPOLITANO: Here's where Mr. Trump and Senator Sessions are on very solid ground.
BREAM: Uh-mm.
NAPOLITANO: No president in modern times has disregarded the immigration laws more than Barack Obama. He has effectively rewritten them by selectively enforcing some and selectively not enforcing the others. So if for example a President Trump nearly enforced the laws as they're written, you would see a very significant change in the degree with which illegal aliens are even welcome in the country without even making these constitutional changes or these due process changes that the two of them are talking about.
BREAM: And those are some of the things he could actually do.
NAPOLITANO: There are a lot of things he could do. But changing the 14 Amendment, and automatic deportations are not among them.
BREAM: Judge, it's always good to see you. I feel smarter just having been in your presence.
NAPOLITANO: I just feel happier being in your presence, Shannon.
BREAM: Thanks for doing it with us.
All right. Tonight, we are also learning more about Donald Trump's plans for taking on ISIS and where he is looking out for military guidance. His answer is getting a lot of reaction tonight. The CEO of Concerned Veterans for America Pete Hegseth is here with his own advice for Trump.
Plus, the first major national poll since the FOX republican debate reveals some previously top tier candidates are falling.
Chris Stirewalt is here on how all of this is now impacting the race and a potential bombshell in the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal. Is there a back-up to her scrabble blank server? Why Clinton may no longer be able to just laugh off her critics?
Dana Perino weighs in ahead on "The Kelly File."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: By the way, you may have seen that I recently launched a Snapchat account.
I love it! I love it! Those messages disappear all by themselves.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Donald Trump is not only making headlines tonight for controversial immigration plan but also for his military strategy to defeat ISIS. Trump's has a key to beating the Islamic State is taking their wealth. And that he had okayed the use of ground troops to do that. Trump is also getting a lot of attention for where he is turning to for military advice. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Who do you talk to for military advice right now?
TRUMP: Well, I watch the shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great, you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals. And you have certain people that --
TODD: But is there somebody, a go-to for you, you know?
TRUMP: Probably there are two or three --
TODD: Every presidential candidate has a go to --
TRUMP: Probably there are two or three. I mean, I like Bolton. I think he's, you know, tough cookie, knows what he's talking about. Jacobs is a great guy.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Coronel Jack Jacobs is a good guy and I see him on occasion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Joining me now, Pete Hegseth, the CEO of Concerned Veterans for America and a veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Pete, always good to see you. Thanks for joining us.
PETE HEGSETH, CEO, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: Thanks for having me.
BREAM: All right. I got to admit, then we have people like you on, many of the retired colonels and generals and people that we have on Fox, I always learn things from them. So, what's wrong about that or is it wrong?
HEGSETH: Well, there are a lot of folks. Hey, a lot of folks. And he even mentioned Ambassador Bolton. I mean, Jack Keane, Ralph Peters. And when I watch them, I learn a ton. So, it's not to say that you don't learn but you wouldn't want a top tier presidential candidate getting all of their military advice from watching "Meet The Press." There's a lot more nuances, there's a lot more detail and what people love about Donald Trump is he is a straightforward. His point tells it what it is. I want to beat ISIS, they shouldn't get all of our oil. I totally get that. But I think if I've got a, if I'm glimpsing inside their campaign, they're probably assembling some generals right now to bring into a room, to brief Donald Trump about some of these particular nuances. Because at the end of the day, foreign policy and national security is not about TV shows. It's a complex wave of relationships and I think they're going to want him briefed on that kind of stuff.
BREAM: Do you think that there's a chance that even he as ambitious and confidence as he is, maybe he didn't think his campaign would actually going to blow off and take off like it has. And maybe they didn't have all those adviser groups in things and place that you usually spent a lot of time with when you're thinking about running for president.
HEGSETH: You know, I think that is part of it. I mean, they've been surprised by their own success. And, you know, they've just got around now to the immigration plan which they would as you've just talked about in the previous segment, which is legitimate and lays out steps. I think at some point whether it is veterans' issues which she's talked about a lot. And now with ISIS or military issues, he's going talk to about it. But they're going to have to walk back a little bit from this idea that he gets it from the political shows. In fact, Shannon, I'm down here in South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina. My group, Concerned Vets for America is doing veterans and military family town halls across the country. We're doing it with Rubio and Rand. We're doing it with Cruz later this month. We were down here with Jeb Bush tonight. And I actually asked him this question. I believe you've got a soundbite. But I asked him where he got his military advice from.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Certain candidate recently said in an interview over the weekend that he gets his military advice from watching shows. Where do you get your military advice from?
JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I get my, first of all I get my military advice from a really dedicated group of young policy men and women that are serving in the campaign. I'm not going to fall into the trap of having, you know, I watch "Meet the Press" and get my foreign policy advice from that. I think it needs to be a little more organized than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: All right. What have you heard from other candidates? That sounded like a pretty direct swipe there. But I would imagine some of these other candidates who may been at this game longer do have a group and process and progress helping them.
HEGSETH: Well, you know, that's the -- Governor Bush, they known he would going to run for a while. He actually, to be fair did not name a name. So, even though he's got a lot of people counseling what I asked him about generals. But yes, he's been planning a campaign. Marco Rubio has been planning a campaign, Ted Cruz and others. They have got full scale policy teams. And I think they could probably -- names pretty quickly of generals they've been briefing. Donald Trump is out here talking about ISIS. Talking about taking oil. I get some of the positions in the visceral and gut reactions he has as to why he takes them.
I just think as an Iraq vet myself who understands how complex the fight against ISIS would be. Yes, oil is critical to their funding but there are a lot of other military aspects to that. You can't just deploy Americans and circle the oil fields, as just what he's talked about. I get where he's coming from. It is a shame how China and others have exploited our oil assets after all the blood we put in there. But he's going to want to refine that or refine that approach. Especially as they get closer and closer to 2016.
BREAM: All right. Pete, great to see you. Thank you always for your service and for being with us tonight too.
HEGSETH: Thank you, Shannon. I appreciate it.
BREAM: All right. Presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson took to the stage in Iowa this weekend delivering a powerful message about the rule of faith in politics. His message and where he stands in a brand new 2016 poll. Chris Stirewalt has the rankings and analysis. You can't, I mean, you can't put a price tag on that. Can you? Next.
Plus, a can't miss interview. Former Baltimore prosecutor for State Attorney Marilyn Mosby breaks her silence and what she's saying about Mosby has apparently police officers calling her up and saying, thank you. What she says the public needs to know ahead on "The Kelly File."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARILYN MOSBY, MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE STATE'S ATTORNEY: You're at the forefront of this cause. And as young people, our time is now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Some big news developing for the 2016 republican presidential field as a first major national polls since the FOX republican debate, reveals that some previously top tier candidates may be slipping. Dr. Ben Carson though jumping into second place after getting five percentage points after the debate. Well, folks like Jeb Bush and Scott Walker find themselves falling into single digits. And with voters propelling Carly Fiorina into the top ten after her highly praise performance in Cleveland, you can tell the pressure was on when these candidates took to the often critical Iowa State Fair just this weekend. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't think I would make mistakes. I mean, every time somebody says, I made a mistake, they do the polls and my numbers go up. So I guess I haven't made any mistakes.
DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to stop listening to these people who tell us that we cannot talk about God, we cannot talk about our faith. It is on our pledge, it's on our course and it's on our money but we're not supposed to talk about it. What moral is that? In medicine we call it schizophrenia.
CARLY FIORINA, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no excuse, Planned Parenthood must be defunded. Anyone who buys the democrat argument that this is about women's health. You need to look at all the other facilities that's provide women's health services.
GOV. SCOTT WALKER, R-WIS., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have failed this country. They are leading from behind. If you give me the chance, I will not be intimidated just like I wasn't intimidated here or anywhere else.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Chris Stirewalt is the Fox digital politics editor. All right. Because it is always fun to watch them at the Iowa fair, see what they're doing. The outfits they wear. They don't always dress like everybody else at the fair but, you know, they're trying to get their message out there. There were hecklers and all that kind of stuff. But who should be the most worried based on the new poll we have?
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: I mean, the republic, anyone individual person. It is August, it's crazy, it's fun. I mean, Shannon, the point is, what you're seeing right now is the Republican Party is awakening and the debate in Cleveland helped them awaken to the fact that they have a panoply of choices. They have a bunch of good choices or potentially good choices. So, now they're going through and they're sounding them out. What about this? They didn't know Ben Carson much before. They saw him in the debate. Tens of millions of people poured in. They saw him in the debate, they said, he is a nice guy. He seems thoughtful and sincere and bright. What about him? And some people -- they liked him. What about Carly Fiorina, they hadn't heard of her before. They say, hey, this person, she never held office before. She's an outsider. She's a self-made woman. I like this. So this is what is naturally supposed to happen. And it is just getting started a little later than usual this year.
BREAM: I mean, Chris, these numbers show that people think, when you count plus negative, they say that Carly Fiorina won the debate. She was not even in the 9:00 p.m. debate.
STIREWALT: She did win the debate. She won the debate day, she was head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. In the earlier debate, she got, she had a good soundbite. It got played in the later debate. And compared to some of the people who were in the later debate, she seem like a state's woman, she seem like she had poised, like she had control, like she had a grasp of the facts and I think a lot of people would have wanted to see her there.
BREAM: Okay. I know that you think that Senator Ted Cruz who has kind of the none outsiders who have benefited and done well in the polls. Sort of playing a softer, gentler, kindler version of Donald Trump?
STIREWALT: He is Trumpian. He is definitely, he's drafting off of Donald Trump. And that energy. Ted Cruz is remarkable in this way. He has spent a lot of the last 20 years in government and politics but no one identifies him as a politician or a standard issue politician. Because of his work in Washington burning everything down. He is been -- no one can say that Ted Cruz is a go along to get along kind of guy. So, he definitely is benefitting from that energy. He has also benefitting from this, he started sooner. If you'll recall, he had the first announcement. He has hustled longer. He has been out there trying, trying, trying. And it has put him in a position where much like a lot of people in this field. His assumption is that as things shake out and share consolidates, he will be the beneficiary and he has finally good argument to make to that end.
BREAM: All right. Quick before we're out of time. I consider you the encyclopedia. You know on all things political or bacon related, and I have to ask you. Have you ever seen anything like we're seeing with this Trump candidacy before?
STIREWALT: Well, we've seen inklings of it in the past. But what is different than about Donald Trump than anything before. He and Jeb Bush are alike in this way. Everybody knows who he is. We have had candidates who have come into races before like Herman Cain and others, who have had big booms because people didn't know him and they found out about him. And there was a surge in popularity. Trump is different. Everybody knew him when he came in. He had enormous name identification. He has got a hard ceiling on his vote share so far. We'll see if he can grow it beyond that. But no, because he is a celebrity, it's something different.
BREAM: All right. Chris Stirewalt. Always great to see you. Thank you so much for being with us.
STIREWALT: You bet.
BREAM: All right. Well, his Department of Justice investigates the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal. President Obama goes golfing with Bill Clinton. Does that signal anything? Dana Perino weighs in just ahead on "The Kelly File."
Plus, new outrage from a group of pastors over a sculpture depicting the founder of Planned Parenthood in one of our nation's top museum. We're going to hear from one of the pastor's living the charge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: Breaking tonight, new questions about Hillary Clinton's deleted emails. Following a report from ABC, that the company in charge of her service says it is highly likely a full back- up of the server was made somewhere. If true, it could mean her so-called deleted emails still exists somewhere. Late tonight, the Kelly File reached out to the company Flat River Networks for comment, the spokesman tells us he does not have any knowledge of a back-up server. This all comes as we learn that the number of potentially classified emails on Mrs. Clinton's email system is much larger than previously reported. Ed Henry reports from Washington.
ED HENRY, WASHINGTON: Shannon, State Department officials revealed today they've flagged 305 of Hillary Clinton's emails that may contain classified data. The court papers say this new number is based on State Department officials reviewing just 20 percent of Clinton's 30,000 official emails, so there could be far more found with classified data when they go through the rest. All of this despite Clinton's original claims that there was absolutely no classified information on her server. And as the candidate over the weekend tried to laugh off the FBI investigation, while a leading famous investigative reporter who helped uncover Watergate is saying he sees some pretty disturbing parallels between the behavior of Clinton and Richard Nixon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the way, you may have seen that I recently launched a Snapchat account. I love it! I love it! Those messages disappear all by themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you look at Nixon in the history of this on the tapes, Nixon would say, oh yeah, everything was fine. It looked good. He didn't remember the bad stuff. And that's human nature. We don't remember the bad stuff. And 60,000 emails, my god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Clinton continues on push the latest version of her defense which is that there were no classified markings on the emails. The State Department officials they have not yet confirmed any of the information was classified at the time it was sent or received. Clinton this weekend also repeatedly tried to portray all of this as political attacks by Republicans over Benghazi. Republican Trey Gowdy, Chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi fired back that Clinton is citing right wing conspiracies that simply do not exist. And that she is lashing out because her poll numbers are dropping. In fact, a new Fox poll shows Democratic Socialist Senator, Bernie Sanders continues to gain ground. Clinton is leading with 49 percent, down slightly from a couple of weeks ago, while Sander has climbed another 8 points to 30 percent. Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden still weighing whether he should join the fray, Shannon.
BREAM: All right, thank you very much, Ed. Joining us now Dana Perino, Co-Host of the Five and a Former White House Secretary under President George W. Bush, she is also Author of a fantastic book, I've read it, I endorse it, and the Good News is. I love the book but we're going to talk about something else. Let's talk about Hillary Clinton. The jokes about the Snapchat and the stuff disappearing. That says something -- I as an attorney would counsel a client who is under FBI investigation to do.
DANA PERINO, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: First of all, you would say don't ever say something like that, don't even walk up to the line. But that's not how they think about things. That joke was written. That joke was practiced. That joke went through 25 people, they probably poll-tested that that joke. It is preposterous. I just think they should be a little more careful. I remember back in March when she did a little press conference at the U.N. and she said no classified emails were ever on my server. I thought, don't speak in absolutes when you're talking about possible federal investigation. Anybody else in the federal government who had done one of the things just one time that she's been talking about, I was privileged to have a top secret clearance. I would have been fired. I would have lost my career and my reputation. I agreed to defend and uphold my oath to -- the classification even if they think it was silly that it was classified because you read it on the New York Times website earlier in the day. It's still classified. You don't get to decide, only the President decides that. So I think she's in trouble, I wouldn't joke about it, but if I was going to joke about it I guarantee you I could deliver that joke better than she did.
BREAM: We're going to give you a chance. Ok, so as a spokesperson, that is not something you would counsel her to do. But what do you make of this visual we got this weekend that the current President, President Obama and the Former President Bill Clinton out golfing, because you and I know when these guys go out, most of the time the pool or the people can get pictures is very tightly controlled. The President golf's all the time and we get zero pictures of it. I don't know if this...
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: The let's be clear. The White House only releases the photographs or allows photographs of the events that they want people to see. If you take a look at that picture of Clinton, aw shucks look. What I first thought of was that this picture, this invitation to play golf with Obama was meant to send a message to one particular person. Hardest hit in that photograph, Joe Biden, this is like taking a golf club to his political aspirations. However, I will tell you this. You know that poll that Ed Henry just talked about? Ed Henry --I'm sorry Bernie Sanders is climbing. Why would Bernie Sanders not want to attack her where she is most vulnerable on trust worthiness? There are three federal FBI investigations. She is most vulnerable on that point. Is Bernie Sanders scared to attack her on that point? Is his campaign for real? Does he really want to be President of the United States? Does he really want to try to knock her out? Let's see if he does it. I think Joe Biden and one of the reasons he's thinking about it is because he knows. He knows the government. He knows that the federal investigators are not joking around. And I think that he can step in.
BREAM: Do you think Bernie Sanders -- because I've seen him make some comments sort of like I'm not going to go after Hillary personally, that's not the way I do things, I have my own ideas.
PERINO: Do you think he's going to win on policy? How can he win on policy?
BREAM: Look at the crowds he's turning up though. Maybe he feels confident.
PERINO: He'll never get the numbers. He can get a little bit of a bump in the polls as people start to wonder is she really thinking that she's going to be able to defend all of this by saying there is a right wing conspiracy. Look, I understand that her goal -- Washington Post tomorrow is to outlast everybody else. That tactic worked 30 years ago. I don't think it's going to work this time around. I really don't. I think that they're in trouble. And she can still get away with it. But when she becomes Chief Executive Officer of bureaucracy, you can bet that she's going to make sure that all of them follow the law unlike she didn't.
BREAM: Innocent until proven guilty. We'll see where these investigations go. In the meantime, Joe Biden might call you.
PERINO: He should call me.
BREAM: Maybe he'll come on the Five.
PERINO: I would love that. Can you imagine Joe Biden was on the five? It would be so great. That might even beat the ratings of the debate.
BREAM: I don't know. Stay tuned everyone. Dana is also going to work on some jokes.
But up next, a petition to remove the sculpture of Planned Parenthood's founder from the National Portrait Gallery, it's gone viral. One of the ministers behind that movement is here next.
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BREAM: Tonight, new outrage among a group of pastors calling for the removal of a sculpture depicting the founder of Planned Parenthood, included in an exhibit in of our nation's premier art museums. Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with the story. Hi, Trace.
GALLAGHER: Shannon, the group is called STAND or Staying True to America's Destiny. And now it has a petition with 10,000 signatures demanding the Smithsonian Institution's National Portrait Gallery take down the bust of Margaret Sanger. The petition's goal is to make sure everyone in America knows exactly who Margaret Sanger was. Sanger who died in 1966 was best known for popularizing the birth control term and later founding Planned Parenthood. The call to remove her likeness comes after the release of multiple undercover videos showing Planned Parenthood officials casually explaining the process of harvesting fetal tissue from aborted babies. But the real controversy isn't Sanger's connection to Planned Parenthood as much as her writings about eugenics, which aims to improve the human race by the mandatory sterilization of those that she deemed unfit to reproduce, including blacks, Latin, and Jewish people. In its letter to the National Portrait Gallery, STAND writes quoting here, "Ironically Sanger's bust is featured in the NPG's Struggle for Justice Exhibit, alongside two of America's most celebrated and authentic champions of equal rights, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks." If Sanger had her way, MLK and Rosa Parks would not have been born. The NPG responded quoting again, "Margaret Sanger is included in the museum's collection, not in tribute to all of her beliefs, many of which are now controversial. But because of her leading role in developing modern methods of birth control and in founding Planned Parenthood of America." Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Trace, thank you very much.
Joining us now, Bishop E.W. Jackson Sr., the Founder of Ministers Taking a Stand, the group behind this call for the Smithsonian to remove the sculpture of Margaret Sanger, Bishop, thank you for joining us tonight.
BISHOP E.W. JACKSON SR. MINISTERS TAKING A STAND FOUNDER: Thank you for having me, Shannon.
BREAM: You lay out a very detailed letter to the folks at the Smithsonian talking about the perception and the facts surrounding Margaret Sanger, where she came from. You outlined very detailed allegations against her. And you say maybe you're not aware of it. But it sounds like the Smithsonian said they are aware of the controversies about her and the statue is not going away.
JACKSON: Well, they're aware and they're dishonest and they're disrespectful. Because their answer suggests, that we're going to honor her in spite of the fact these facts are true. And what we said in response to that is that's like saying we're going to honor Adolf Hitler because he have a role in population control. Her motivations were getting rid of people that she considered to be unfit. And those people happened to be primarily black and other minorities, and of course that included white kids who were poor, who came from poor back grounds in her view. That's nobody who should be honored, certainly not in an exhibit for the Struggle for Justice. We suggested create a Hall of Shame and out her in that along with other infamous character, but please don't honor her as some sort of American icon in the Struggle for Justice.
BREAM: Bishop, you mentioned, she is part of that specific exhibit. And I understand not far from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks.
JACKSON: And the reality is these people were fighting for equal rights for everyone. They were fighting to lift the chains of racism from all of us, black, white, brown, to bring us together. Margaret Sanger was an elitist who thought that certain people weren't fit to live. That's a monstrous idea. We think Shannon, that as Americans find out about this, they're going to demand with us that that bust, whatever exhibit they have that honors Margaret Sanger be taken out or be placed in the its proper context. And the proper context would be since she spoke for the Ku Klux Klan, put her in an exhibit with her compatriots from the Ku Klux Klan, one of the grand wizards of the KKK would be a proper companion in an exhibit with Margaret Sanger for the destruction of black lives.
BREAM: Bishop, the Smithsonian went on to say at the end of its statement about the museums intent is not to honor her in an unqualified way, but rather to stimulate our audiences to reflect on the experience of Americans who struggle to improve the civil and social conditions of 20th century America. For you is that a proper classification of her?
JACKSON: Well, the fact that her motivations were wrong. They're saying, well, it doesn't matter what her motives were, all that matters is what she accomplished. But if her motives were to get rid of black people, everybody is running around chanting black lives matter, well this matters. And everybody is concerned about racism and attacks by police on black people. Margaret Sanger is responsible for the deaths of millions of black people. In fact about 285,000 black babies are aborted every year. And she has used the black civil rights movement and co-opted some of their leaders to support what she's doing, and it is the equivalent of a black genocide and she should not be honored in the National Portrait Gallery.
BREAM: Bishop E.W. Jackson Sr., sir, thank you for your time. Please keep us updated. We will stay on this story if there's any change at the Smithsonian. Thank you, sir.
All right, coming up, the can't miss interview of former Baltimore Prosecutor for State Attorney Marilyn Mosby breaks her silence, what she is saying about Mosby has apparently gotten police officers calling her up and saying thank you. What she says the public needs to know, just ahead on the Kelly File.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for no justice, no peace. Your peace is sincerely needed as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.
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BREAM: Developing tonight, a veteran Baltimore prosecutor blasts States Attorney Marilyn Mosby, saying she has a role in the violent crime spike in Baltimore. Controversy has followed States Attorney Mosby since her decision to charge the six Baltimore police officers involved in the arrest and death of Freddy Gray. But since that time, Baltimore recorded some of the highest murder rates in decades. Roya Hanna is a former Baltimore Assistant States Attorney, thank you for joining us tonight, Roya.
ROYA HANNA, FMR BALTIMORE ASSISTANT STATE'S ATTORNEY: Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: Why did you decide to go public and write this piece? So that others would hear the allegations and hear what you have to say about this.
HANNA: Well, I've just been watching the murder rate go up and up and up, and there didn't seem to be any response from the States Attorney Office. Any proposals of how they intended to reduce the violence.
BREAM: Well, you say that she bears some direct responsibility. You said I can no longer stand idly by and watch States Attorney Marilyn Mosby avoid taking responsibility for her role in the increased violence. The numbers are the numbers, those are facts. Those aren't disputable. But how do you attribute to her some culpability in this?
HANNA: Primarily three things. As a prosecutor, she is weak. As a CEO, she is wasteful. And as a lawyer, she, unfortunately, just doesn't know the law. And those three things combined with her inexperience have really created an untenable situation.
BREAM: Well, I know that you have an issue with how she advises prosecutors to handle drug offenders, tell us about that.
HANNA: You know, in February, her office released a memo that said for all non-violent crimes that the prosecutors are expected and encouraged to offer probation for those people. And Ms. Mosby, one of the reasons that she was refusing to participate in the homicide review process was she says that she knows the reason for the violence is drugs. Well, if the reason for the violence is drugs and you're telling prosecutors to give away the drug cases that just didn't make much sense to me.
BREAM: Well, what is the mood there in Baltimore? She has stood up for herself and said that she is going to continue doing this job. She knows there are going to be critics out there. People aren't going to always agree with your decisions, especially in very controversial tough situations in cases. But what's your take? I know that you've left the department now of your own accord. But what's your take on those who are still there and working with her?
HANNA: You know a lot of the prosecutors are very frustrated. They really do want to do a good job. They care so deeply about this city and about the victims of crime. But they are being constantly hampered by the front office and by the Mosby Administration. Because the Mosby administration is devoting more and more resources to community outreach programs, to publicity, and not enough to the actual prosecution of crime. Which is what the prosecutors are most concerned about.
BREAM: I know that you've called on them to release certain statistics and information you think the public should have. What do you hope to get from them?
HANNA: Well, you know, they had -- when Ms. Mosby first came onboard, she brought with her two statisticians that keep track of the types of cases that her office prosecutes, if she dismisses the cases, and the sentences that each are given as an overall for each type of crime. And I hope she is willing to release that information, and to release the information from her predecessor, as well, and from her predecessor's predecessor. So that we can really understand what is happening in her office and how she is handling these cases, these very important cases.
BREAM: Well, your op-ed raises a lot of interesting questions. We'll see if you get the information that you think the public should also have. Roya, thank you.
HANNA: I hope so. Thank you.
BREAM: We'll be right back, but first, coming up on Hannity at the top of the hour.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deport them all, you cannot do that. What you have to do have immigration reform, comprehensive immigration. Are going to deport 11 million?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To bring the army -- or are you going to be in the business of deporting babies?
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BREAM: Super Bowl Champion James Harrison's Instagram post going viral. The Pittsburgh Steeler got upset after he found out his two young sons got participation trophies, sent them back saying he's proud of what his kids do but trophies need to be earned, writing in part, I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they're entitled to something just because they tried their best, sometimes your best isn't good enough. That should drive you to want to do more. That's "The Kelly File" tonight. Goodbye.
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