Will Donald Trump come out swinging on debate stage?

Debating The Donald's debate strategy


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 31, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Tonight, breaking developments on Hillary Clinton at this very moment, Hillary Clinton's campaign is releasing eight years worth of tax returns along with her itemized list of her speaking fees and business income as well as her husband Bill. The campaign released her health records earlier. Interesting timing as the Friday night document dump coincides with the release of thousands of e-mails during her time as secretary of state. We'll get to all that coming up. But first, Donald Trump may be out of the country, but he's still the talk of the town. Charles Krauthammer thinks his rise to the front of the GOP race is remarkable, and Dr. Charles seems to be changing his tune a bit on Trump's results. Watch.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I haven't changed my opinion of his candidacy, but I have changed my opinion of his durability. I mean, this is a guy who mocked the service of a prisoner of war who was tortured for 5 1/2 years and refused early release and Trump got away with it. He not only got away with it, it wasn't even a speed bump in his rise in the polls. So he clearly is tapping in to something. He will not go away easily.


BOLLING: And we're six days away from the first presidential debate on Fox News. And I got a chance to ask Trump if he's excited about it for Cashin In that's airing tomorrow morning at 11:30. Here's a preview.


BOLLING: Because you're number one in the polls, you get that front and center seat on the debate. Are you looking forward to the debate?

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I look forward to it. I've never done it before. I mean, I haven't. I'm not a debater. I produce jobs, I produce beautiful buildings, I do a lot of good things and I build great businesses. I build an incredible business. But the fact is I'm not a debater. I've never done it before. I don't know. Maybe I'll be good, maybe I'll be terrible. Who knows what I'll do.


BOLLING: All right, what's in -- we'll bring around table, Greg. Like him, hate him? There's a number there.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: He's lying. He debates all the time. He's constantly debating. What I would like to see him debate, though, is himself. I would like to see him go after the Donald Trump of a month ago or two months ago on immigration because he's clearly, he's clearly adapted and changed his tune on immigration. On CNN yesterday, he was actually really thoughtful and added nuance to his stance about giving illegal immigrants, legal status. Allowing them to deport and then re-import to return and actually get legal status, which is far different than calling them rapists. And I think that is -- that I call that growth. I think that's important. I think people think that he should -- maybe, go after Jeb. I think it's about swinging up. I think it's gonna be about Rand Paul and Marco Rubio making a play, so that he's more like Biff Tannen and Marty McFly. So they look like the underdogs and they can go after him. I think that if Trump goes after anybody, he's gonna look too aggressive.

BOLLING: So you say, he plays a little defense because he is gonna be attached from all of that?

GUTFELD: Yeah, but from the lower tier, from the guy that have to do it, it's not gonna come from Jeb.

BOLLING: Is there a D in Trump?


BOLLING: It's like.


BOLLING: I don't think there no -- oh, defense. D and.

GUTFELD: I don't know.


GUTFELD: There's a rump.

BOLLING: There's a rump in Trump.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: There's a rump. That is true.

BOLLING: Dana, what do you think, or how do you think this plays out for Trump? I mean the numbers keep widening, you know, its phenomenon.

PERINO: Well, I think this debate is a little bit different. I think that we, on cable news are thinking that where there is gonna be these big fight. I actually was thinking that's a little bit differently. Trump comes to this in better shape, name ID wise, than anybody by far. He certainly has more television experience than any of them. At -- well, maybe save Kasich, if he makes the debate. But Donald Trump knows how to entertain and he knows that he can deliver a line. I actually think that because he doesn't have to introduce himself as Donald Trump, he has to introduce himself as a republican candidate. Therefore, his opening statement, you actually might sound like that Donald Trump that you talked to yesterday, not necessarily coming out swinging and insulting other people. But I think he will is say, I'm here. I chose to be a republican. I chose to be here because I think I can beat Hillary Clinton and he will focus all of his attention, I think on her. The others in the debate have to introduce, this is -- we've been covering this all the time. This is the first televised debate. No ones will gonna want to miss it because the first time they're having a chance to introduce themselves to republican voters and the American public more broadly. So I think the debate is gonna be a little more conciliatory than anticipated.

BOLLING: Chris (inaudible) from the fix, I think he was the one who put up a piece today, saying that "Donald Trump, in order to win -- either the nomination or the debate, needs to come out with some policy ideas between now and Thursday." I will tell you on this -- in this interview, I spent 17 minutes with him. He had some policy in there. Why hasn't he made that known to the public before this?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I don't think he's that kind of candidate. I think he's a candidate of the sort of visceral powerful emotions. I mean he speaks directly to people and that's his appeal. I don't think anybody there is really about his immigration policy. As far as they're concerned, you know Greg's got it right, there is a lot of rump in trump. I mean, it's not exactly brains. This is not -- that's not what they're looking for.

PERINO: Can I make sure something up?

BOLLING: But -- yeah, yeah.

PERINO: Because he has -- he -- they announced today, I believe that Trump will have a book that comes out on the day of the debate and it's a -- apparently, it's all the policies that.

GUTFELD: But isn't.

PERINO: Like smart marketing.

GUTFELD: The book?

PERINO: To put out that day.

GUTFELD: But isn't -- if the book -- am I confused? Isn't it the book that was out two years ago?

PERINO: I know.

GUTFELD: The same book, right?

PERINO: I'm not sure.

WILLIAMS: I don't know.


GUTFELD: Make America great again it said something like that.

WILLIAMS: But I will say this. That I think that Thursday night is really the Trump show, you know. Where was that movie at somebody show?

GUTFELD: Truman show.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, the Truman. This is the Trump show because it's all about Trump. The guy who has the most to prove is Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush, you know.

BOLLING: So what is he do?

WILLIAMS: He's got to take shot.

PERINO: I disagree. I can talk to you later.

WILLIAMS: You know, I think it's what Dana suggested earlier. Dana disagree it.


WILLIAMS: But anyway, I think what he's -- what Jeb Bush has got to do is sort of contrast himself to Trump as I'm a serious substantive candidate.

BOLLING: To Trump?

WILLIAMS: Yes. And I'm the.

BOLLING: And here's why.

WILLIAMS: I'm the big real establishment conservative.

BOLLING: Because one of the pieces -- one of the headlines on Drudge Report today was that, the republican, whoever, has advised Jeb not to take on Trump because that wouldn't be his strategy.

WILLIAMS: No, not directly.

JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST" That's not an advice.

WILLIAMS: It's not -- yeah. It's not like arguing with them.

BOLLING: Well, how do you not?

WILLIAMS: Because it's a contrast. It's like, you know. It's like you want to say, oh, gee, that guy is kind of clownish. But that guy, that guy is serious. I -- see? That Jeb is more impressive than I thought.

BOLLING: Go ahead.

BILA: Trump's biggest challenge, I think if I were advising him is that he does speak in these platitudes. I'm always yearning for specifics. And I think the public does want that from him. I see a lot of times on Twitter people saying, "Where exactly does he stand on this issue or that issue." So I think people are gonna be looking for some seriousness from him because they already know what he does well. And what he does well is that charisma is getting people excited, is a sort of not being self-centered and going out and saying what he thinks. What people are really curious about is can we rely on this guy if he were to get elected to do what he says he believes in. So I think those specifics.

WILLIAMS: But wait a second.

BILA: And I actually with Greg. I think Marco Rubio, and I think Rand Paul, who everyone expected to shine, everyone was saying these are gonna be the guy, these are gonna be. Scott walker as well is one of those guys that people think of like that. I think people are gonna be looking to see, can they take on Donald Trump. Can they challenge them? Maybe not on the same tone that he has, but can they challenge him on policy because if he can't take on the Donald? They'll probably not gonna be able to take on Hillary.

WILLIAMS: You know what Donald will punk them. If he -- if they punk on Donald Trump, he would eat them alive.

BILA: Punk the Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, they will punk.

BOLLING: In fact.

WILLIAMS: But I think that what Greg was on, he said this thing about substance. I think that if you go back, Donald Trump is a pretty big democrat.



GUTFELD: Is that we need.

BILA: Yes. That's the key.

GUTFELD: They've got to ask him of number universal health care.

BILA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Well, how about that?

GUTFELD: We're easy on that.

WILLIAMS: Well, how about gun control.

BILA: At gun control.


BILA: Yes, absolutely.

BOLLING: Promise you that if you watch tomorrow -- I don't want to give it all away because I asked him about health care. I asked him about the military. I asked him about how is he gonna build -- how he's gonna pay for the wall that he wants to build. How is he gonna -- in Mexico to pay for. And he comes up with substantial ideas. I also asked him, if you were on the debate stage, sitting next to Megyn Kelly and you had a question for Jeb, Walker, Christie and Rubio, what would it be? It's pretty fascinating stuff. He's not holding back tomorrow morning. I have a hunch he won't hold back Thursday.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: Let me take another little piece of clip from the interview with Trump. There are a lot of people in the establishment who are kind of terrified or mad at him. I asked him about that.


BOLLING: Why is the establishment, the political establishment class so afraid of Donald Trump?

TRUMP: I don't understand it. I say what I say which is something, make America great again. I mean, basically, what I want to do Eric is make our country great again. But the level of animosity, and the level of hatred from some people, who I think are good people is incredible. But likewise, the level of support is beyond incredible, including some of the pundits, in all fairness. So it's a mixed bag, but I'm out there and you see the poll numbers have been fantastic. I'm very happy with it. And hopefully, I'll get a chance to make our country great again.


BOLLING: Dana, your respond to that one?

PERINO: Well, if you're pointing at me, like I'm not afraid of Donald Trump.

BOLLING: No, no.



PERINO: Why is the establishment -- Dana, you respond. I think that there is -- see through respect, right? So Donald -- Charles Krauthammer comes out and says, look, I can change my mind. It's more durable than I thought. Jeb Bush says, it's a phenomenon and I don't think he meant that in a bad way. It's like, if there is obviously something there, the polls are where they are. And I think social media does have a way of pushing these polls faster than we have seen in the past because people are paying more attention. They're getting it in all sorts of different ways, not just in the morning paper they are seeing it all day long. So when polls are taken, you can see movement much faster and that could go either way. I don't know what it will look like on Tuesday when they make a decision.

BOLLING: I wasn't including you in the class. I was giving you first crack at that apple.


BOLLING: Greg, your thoughts on the establishment being -- start with them.

GUTFELD: I think there is -- it's a big -- there's a lot of hypocrisy going on because Donald is not afraid to go after somebody.

PERINO: You're right.

GUTFELD: And they call that criticism. When you respond, somehow that is translated as bashing. And I've always said that criticism is your guardrail. Flunkies only feed your overconfidence, and your overconfidence then obscures your blind spots. I think that he's changed since the last couple weeks because you've noticed a thoughtfulness brewing about certain issues that were not there before. That might upset people who miss his bluntness, but it might make him a more -- I guess a more serious candidate as he starts to grow. Yes, it grows the audience and not inflamed those that like to be enflamed.

BILA: Yeah. I think the other candidates are really confused. I do not think they expected him to be this successful. I don't think.

PERINO: Right.

BILA: They were prepared for it. I think they're even more confused because he's made a lot of mistakes. This McCain comment and what not, it's not hurt him as of yet. So I think there -- if you look at Rick Perry in particular, I think he's been struggling to try to figure out how to tackle this. I think they are trying to figure out -- trying to predict in a sense, what he's gonna do on the debate stage and how they should respond to it to best highlight their strengths and highlight his weaknesses.

BOLLING: Quick thought?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I just think that in fact, Donald Trump -- I think people are afraid of him because he's not a politician. Nobody knows how.

BOLLING: He's a moving target.

WILLIAMS: You know he's.


WILLIAMS: He's like an X factor. I saw somebody wrote in the paper so you don't -- if you're a republican on that stage, don't start wrestling with pigs, you'll just gonna get dirty and the pig likes it.

PERINO: I think.

WILLIAMS: And you know.

PERINO: Just have to follow their gut.

WILLIAMS: Well, they could, but.

PERINO: You can't plan all of these out. You have to go and know your record very well.

WILLIAMS: But he doesn't know it.

PERINO: Know a few points that you can -- well I'm not.

WILLIAMS: He doesn't have a record.

PERINO: Forget -- I'm saying about all the other candidates.


PERINO: So you need to know your record very well. Be able to point out weaknesses in the other's record if you can. And then you just gonna have to roll with it.


PERINO: And be yourself.

BILA: Right.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

PERINO: That is gonna be the ways to be the most authentic.

WILLIAMS: The problem with.

PERINO: You can't plan anything.

WILLIAMS: The problem with Trump is he has no record or it's a flip-flop record and he's really playing on media sensation and energy. And I think that's why McCain said, oh, he's exciting the crazies. I don't think McCain meant it as a negative, but he just saying, you know, he's got the activists grasp which the party going in a way that the typical establishment republican -- it feels like, oh, my God. My hair is on fire.

BOLLING: Wrapping but -- quick thought?

GUTFELD: Yeah. If Trump gets the nomination and it's Trump versus Hillary, will he still donate to Hillary's campaign?


GUTFELD: In case he loses.


WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, yes.

GUTFELD: In case he loses. He covers that base. And he ends up in her administration.

PERINO: Well, what's transactional? Right, that's what it's called.

BOLLING: And it's the evil plan from all of us.


GUTFELD: You know he wants to be secretary of the interior.

PERINO: He can really bring people together.


BOLLING: All right. We're gonna leave it right there. Catch more of my one on one interview with Donald Trump, Cashin In tomorrow morning 11:30 eastern. I asked him about how he plans to get Mexico to pay for that wall he wants so badly. I got a very interesting answer.

Ahead on The Five, Facebook Friday, we answer your questions. But straight ahead, the State Department released a brand new batch of Hillary Clinton's e-mails from her tenure as secretary of state. We'll gonna ask Ed Henry, he's gonna be here about that and much more. Stick around.


PERINO: All right, lots of news on this Friday about Hillary Clinton, a new batch of e-mails from her private e-mail account was released by the State Department today. Some e-mails about the Benghazi attack were included in the disclosure. Nearly, simultaneously, the Clinton campaign released information on her health and her team just released eight years of joint tax returns for both Hillary and former President Clinton. Ed Henry has been following it all. He's in Miami where Clinton spoke earlier. And, Ed, does Hillary Clinton's team ever think about giving the press a Friday night off?

ED HENRY, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, there is news all the time. I mean, I think in this case they deserve some credit for being transparent about both her taxes and her health records. I just spoke a short time ago, Dr. Marc Siegel from our medical A- Team here at Fox News as you know outstanding doctor, outstanding man. He says he was surprised -- pleasantly surprised as a doctor that there was more information than he expected from Hillary Clinton's team about her health condition. Bottom line, from her doctor you won't be surprised says that she's fit and healthy enough to be president of the United States. On the taxes, a lot of information was still pouring through about her speech income, about how much she's paid in taxes, but there is no doubt, as much as want to say they get credit for transparency. There's no doubt what was behind this. They knew that they were going to take another beating today about the e-mails being released by the State Department specifically, there is even more classified information we learned today in her personal server, contrary to what she said. So it's very clear that that was part of what motivated them being transparent on these other issues.

PERINO: Jedediah, let me start with you, we'll take around the table.

BILA: Yes. So I mean -- obviously to me, Ed, it looks like she is trying to control her news cycle here a little bit and I think it's a good strategy. My question to you is do you think she can successfully do that? Do you think by releasing this information and showing some segment of transparency on some issues, that people will kind of forget her lack of transparency on others?

HENRY: Well, some people are gonna move on, there is no doubt. And they have also, effectively, almost bullied the New York Times on some of the mistakes they made, and there was -- it was legit for them to push back against the New York Times for saying there was a criminal investigation when that was not true. But there was still a lot of pretty remarkable information saying that two inspectors general believe that Hillary Clinton has classified information in her server and want at least to security investigation, if not a criminal investigation down the road from the Justice Department. That is still major news. But since the New York Times has back pedaled, a lot of other news organizations are not really pursuing that anymore. So to your point, I think they have been pretty effective about pushing this e-mail thing to the side. However, big caveat, if the Justice Department moves forward with anything in the weeks and months ahead, especially as we get closer to Iowa and New Hampshire, they may try to push the e-mail thing to the side, but it's gonna front and center.

PERINO: Hey, Ed. Are you guys might still be pouring through the information about the taxes? But lucky for us, we have someone who understands finance and is a math whiz. So Eric's got a couple questions for you.

BOLLING: Ed, I'm looking at -- they paid the Clintons since 2007, so what is this? Seven years or eight years, I guess seven and a half years they have to pay partial income tax this year, but $43 million, they paid $15 million -- they donated $15 million in charities. They have another $18 million in state and local taxes. I do some backhanded math and back -- through it and they have made probably, somewhere upwards of $125 million in the last few years, pretty good to be Clintons?

HENRY: Yeah. It is. And I think that they are going to have to deal in this campaign, with the fact that this is part of them trying to deal with it from a message standpoint that she's talking about being a champion of the middle class and she's obviously, nowhere near the middle class. The way they pushback on that is saying, yes, are they're putting it on the table. The Clintons have made a lot of money. Are not, you know, far from their roots in Arkansas now, but that she's pushing policies that she believes anyway, will help the middle class contrary to what Mitt Romney was pushing in 2012. Now, republicans are gonna have a lot of time in this Fox debate in few days, as well as in the campaign ahead to tear apart her policies as they wish. And maybe say they're not going to help the middle class, but at least that's the case she's gonna make to the American people.

PERINO: Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Hey, Ed. Good to see you again.

HENRY: Good to see you.


GUTFELD: I go back to this inescapable problem with Hillary is that the more you know, the more you think know. It's like a bag of candy corn, after 10 minutes, you feel queasy.

HENRY: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Hillary is.

HENRY: It's a little bit like getting to know you.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.



GUTFELD: To me, in my opinion, Hillary's campaign is so dead that Planned Parenthood is trying to sell parts of it.


HENRY: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Does Bernie Sanders make Hillary look more moderate? Like me standing next to Hillary -- next to Dana, I look taller.


HENRY: Look, I think Bernie Sanders has given them a bigger scare than they ever thought because you would think that a socialist democrat would be pushing policies that are so far to the left that he wouldn't gain any traction. But instead, what we've seen Hillary Clinton so is react to him rising in the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, like continuing to move to the left on a lot of big policies. And so she's starting to take that challenge perhaps, a little more seriously than they first did. And yesterday, I reported that there was a little concern in the Clinton camp about what are the intentions of Vice President Joe Biden. His top aide was spotted having breakfast with the big democratic fundraiser. Untold by people, the Clinton camp that they are wondering is Joe Biden gonna get in here. As he trying to figure out, you know, whether he can raise a lot of cash in a short amount of time. The Biden camp is down playing, the Clinton camp is telling they're not worried about Biden, but I think the bottom line is various democrats are now relooking at this race saying, maybe she's more beatable than they thought.

PERINO: Nothing makes me laugh more than people in Washington having a strategic breakfast so that they can be spotted and then talked about.


PERINO: Juan, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: So Ed, let me just go back to the very top. There is nothing here that was labeled as classified on her server. It's still the case that she can say there was nothing there that was either.

HENRY: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Labeled or routed in such a way that I violated or broke the law because I think that's important -- to understand. That's her defense, that's what she's been saying. And most of these e-mails at this point have nothing to do with Benghazi, its look like, you know, peeping tom pleasure and oh, this is what Hillary Clinton said and did.

PERINO: It's a court order, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Is that what it boils Benghazi?

HENRY: That's not exactly true. I mean, there is some Benghazi stuff coming up here. Nothing that some major bombshell about Benghazi, but they do come up in some of the e-mails released today. Libya, the security situation, there's at least one e-mail I saw from the Ambassador Chris Stevens. Again, nothing I saw that was dramatically new to your point. However, you are right, Juan. That at least so far, there is nothing showing that there were classification markings on the e-mails telling Hillary Clinton, don't look at this, this should be on a private server. However, the criticism from the inspectors general and outside critics has been as secretary of state, maybe she should have a better idea.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree with you.

HENRY: Better judgment.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. I think.

HENRY: But you're right.

WILLIAMS: That's a fair criticism. All right, so I have one more quick.

PERINO: Wait, we're gonna.

WILLIAMS: Quick question.

PERINO: Can we go for Eric --


BOLLING: I just want to point something out. The reason why the Benghazi stuff hasn't come up yet because this is chronological, and the first two document -- two or three document dumps are at the beginning of the Hillary Clinton tenure as secretary of state.


BOLLING: We haven't gotten to the timeline of Benghazi. There's plenty more to come.

WILLIAMS: Well, let's see what comes. But so far, they've had a little and there is nothing, I mean, this is supposed to be -- this why it was requested -- nothing there. So that's why it says it looks like voyeurism to me. But here is the big question.

PERINO: It's not voyeurism if a court tells you.


PERINO: That you have to release the documents.

WILLIAMS: At this point..

PERINO: That's a court.



PERINO: What are you gonna be like a hacker going in.

WILLIAMS: No, but at this point.

PERINO: Ad I thought, there's probably happens here.

WILLIAMS: At this point then, so why we are -- if that's the case, Dana. Look for stuff that has to do with Benghazi.

PERINO: No, the support.

WILLIAMS: Not has to do with her going to the hairdresser.

PERINO: And that's what the court said. The court said they had to be released.

WILLIAMS: All right, well that was.

PERINO: Because she shouldn't have the private server in the first place. And let me ask you something. Did they ever ask Hillary Clinton, as president of the United States, in charge of all set of all employees, would she tolerate a government employee having a private server in their home and doing government business on that server?

HENRY: Well, I suspect she'd say it would depend on the circumstances because in her circumstances, she thought was ok.

PERINO: Boloney (ph). She'd have to say no.


GUTFELD: If you want to avoid a document dump?

HENRY: Well, except she did.

GUTFELD: Don't eat documents.


WILLIAMS: Hey, Ed. I have one quick question for you.

PERINO: OK, we got to go.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I got one quick question for Ed.



WILLIAMS: Ed, in the medical stuff, it doesn't list her height or her weight. Why is that?

PERINO: That's totally fine with me.

HENRY: I don't know.


HENRY: And maybe they didn't want to get into detail.

PERINO: Well, you don't need to know that.

WILLIAMS: I want to know her height and weight. What is your height and weight Dana Perino?




PERINO: I think women across the world will agree no one needs to know that. All right, thanks, ED. Still to come, Facebook Friday.

HENRY: Juan, complaining about voyeurism, and now he knows -- want to know height and weight.


PERINO: OK, great point. Thank you. We're gonna do Facebook Friday, we expect for a stock of question, we'll gonna answer them. But first, what is the difference between a democrat and a socialist? The head of the DNC was stumped when asked that question. And her answer, we'll gonna show it to you, next.


WILLIAMS: Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist. That's his language. Do Democrats really want him representing their party at its upcoming convention? The chair of the DNC had a very difficult time answering just that question.


CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST, MSNBC'S "HARDBALL": Do you want to have him up on the stage as a socialist representing the Democratic Party? Do you want him up there?


MATTHEWS: Do you want him on the floor of the convention?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Bernie Sanders has been a good Democrat...

MATTHEWS: Should he speak?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: ... caucuses with the Democrats. Of course he should speak.

MATTHEWS: Speak in prime time?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: He should speak at the Democratic National Convention.

MATTHEWS: In prime time? With everybody watching?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Bernie Sanders represents a -- we have a...

MATTHEWS: So the answer is yes?


MATTHEWS: But I mean, but in prime time.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I don't know what time he should speak.


WILLIAMS: And Debbie Wasserman Schultz also had a very tough time answering this one.


MATTHEWS: What is the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? I used to think there's a big difference. What do you think it is?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The difference between...

MATTHEWS: A Democrat like Hillary Clinton and a socialist like Bernie Sanders?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The question is what's the difference between being a Democrat and being a Republican?

MATTHEWS: What's the big difference between a Democrat and a socialist? You're chairman of the Democratic Party. Tell me the difference between you and a socialist.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The relevant debate that we'll be having over the course of this campaign is what's the difference between a Democrat and Republican.

MATTHEWS: I think it's -- I think it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE).


WILLIAMS: Gee. Who would have guessed she never went to school. I mean, a socialist, my gosh. I would think that she would say that the Democrats are a capitalistic party and the United States socialist...

BILA: What?

PERINO: But she didn't want to alienate her voters.

BOLLING: She couldn't answer it. She didn't get stumped, she couldn't answer it.

WILLIAMS: Do you really think she couldn't answer it?

BOLLING: Because if she did answer, she'd describe socialism, or the collective works, the collective.


BOLLING: And statism, Marxism, socialism, they're all the same. That's basically what's going on in the Democrat Party.


WILLIAMS: But I would say -- I'll answer your question. I thought Chris Matthews asked her a legitimate question, but it stumped her.

BOLLING: There is no difference...

WILLIAMS: Are you crazy? What do you mean there's no difference?

BOLLING: ... between socialism and the modern progressive ideology, none.

WILLIAMS: Greg, what do you think?

GUTFELD: I can't figure out if Debbie Wasserman Schultz reminds me of Selma Simpson [SIC] or Patty Simpson [SIC], Marge Simpson's sisters.

Look, she had -- I don't blame her. She had a hard time denigrating what provides the ideological basis for modern liberalism. Socialism relies on capitalism for survival. If Americans don't do business, the leach on its back starves.

Unfortunately, Democratic politics has become a modern form of socialism, relying on capitalism to set the table, to cook the food so they can come along and eat it. Because as a role, modern Democrats do not create. They only exact a pound of flesh from the creator.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say quickly, in retort to that, that I don't see Democrats saying big industry should be state-owned and controlled by the employees, which I think is...

BOLLING: But they have. Bernie Sanders will tell you up to 90 percent of your income should go to the state.

BILA: Bottom line is she needs the Bernie Sanders voters to go vote for Hillary Clinton. Because Bernie Sanders is not going to win the nomination. We all know that. But those voters, the hard academic left, the hard left, the people who really believe in him, she needs them to go vote for Hillary. So she can't -- she's afraid to make anyone mad. Heaven forbid she answered the question.

WILLIAMS: She's running for the Democratic nomination. You're exactly right.

So Dana, let me just say this to you. When Bernie Sanders is asked about being a socialist, he says, "Well, most Americans agree with me on higher minimum wages, pay equity, free tuition to public colleges." So I mean, is American becoming socialist?

PERINO: That's his view of it. And I actually think that the exchange between Matthews and Schultz is very instructive for Republicans, because when you get out there, if you look at how hard it was for Debbie Wasserman Schultz to answer that question, just wait until Hillary is out there. Because as Jedediah says, she needs to get all of that support. It has to be -- pump up debate, but at the same time, you can't turn off every other voter in America who believes in the free market.


PERINO: One of the reasons that she had to flip-flop on trade -- I heard that -- is because she was worried about Bernie Sanders. Does anyone here think for a second that when she becomes president of United States she wouldn't push for more free trade agreements? I think that she would, but she's going to be exposed for it. That's very instructive.

WILLIAMS: But I might say the highlight of the segment was Marge Simpson's sisters. Yes, she does look like Marge Simpson. Oh, my God.

Stay right there. "Facebook Friday" up next.



GUTFELD: Love this song. It's "Facebook Friday, so let's get started.

I'm going to start with you, Jedediah.

BILA: Oh, God.

GUTFELD: These go around the table, by the way. That's how we do it here. If you don't like it, get the hell out of here.

What is the absolute craziest thing you've ever done in your life?

BILA: Oh, I can't say that on television.

GUTFELD: Yes, you can. Say it now. Don't even think, just say it.

BILA: I once -- the first guy that I ever dated was significantly older than I was. I was 19. He was 35. I should have probably used better judgment. He wasn't the greatest guy. It was crazy. We did a lot of crazy stuff I can't say on TV. Come on, man.

GUTFELD: But you and Bernie Sanders are still friends.

BILA: We're still friends.

GUTFELD: Juan, craziest thing you've ever done in your life.

PERINO: You have to ask the same question?


WILLIAMS: I don't know. I don't know how to answer that one.

GUTFELD: Come on.

WILLIAMS: So craziest thing? Craziest thing you ever did in your life? I don't have an answer. Maybe it's I'm so milquetoast. I don't tend to...

GUTFELD: You're lying.

WILLIAMS: I don't bungee jump.

GUTFELD: You killed a family of five in Nevada, didn't you?

WILLIAMS: Yes, that was it. That was it, and they let me out.

GUTFELD: So you're saying no?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't do that much crazy stuff.


BOLLING: I think we did this question before. Because I think I said I've flown in an ultra-light.

PERINO: What is that?

BOLLING: You know, an ultra-light is one of those little things, they're very -- it's almost like you're sitting in a lounge chair with a lawnmower propeller behind you. And it's you and the ground. I've done that. I think we've done this before. George Randolph, Audrey Meadows, Art Carney, Jackie Gleason, "The Honeymooners." I love it.

GUTFELD: That was "I Love Lucy."


WILLIAMS: What are you doing? What are you doing here?


PERINO: I once was with my friends -- I can't tell with all of us (ph) watching.

GUTFELD: Just say it. Tell me what it is.

PERINO: In college, I took a trip with friends, with a new pilot, and my - - we went to -- and came back, and I never told my parents I went.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow. So now they're finding out on "The Five."


GUTFELD: That's fantastic.

PERINO: In a plane. And for the life of me, I cannot remember three people that were with me. I don't remember them at all.

GUTFELD: They're watching right now, going, "I never liked Dana Perino."

PERINO: I could have died and nobody would have known where I was. And it was a tiny little four-seater plane.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow. The craziest thing I ever did was move to Allentown.


GUTFELD: Crazy. And I lived there for ten years. That was crazy.

BOLLING: With Hemmer.

GUTFELD: With Hemmer. Yes, we got a little bungalow.

BILA: And Dobbs.

GUTFELD: Yes. Dobbs came later. Crazy times, Dobbs, me and Hemmer. I could go on about the stuff we did. But frankly, this is a family show.

All right. Dobbs is now a verb. You can look it up on the urban dictionary.

All right. Let's go this way. Dana, what do you talk about during commercial breaks?

PERINO: The viewers.


PERINO: Well, it sort of depends. Sometimes we talk about the next subject coming up.

GUTFELD: We talk about Depends.

PERINO: Random things.


PERINO: Talk about weekend plans.


PERINO: Argue sometimes. I mean, the thing is those commercial breaks are sacred. I wish that the viewers that love "The Five," I wish so much that you could see the commercial breaks. But you would love this show. You would never ever not watch. But the thing is, if you could watch the commercial break, they wouldn't be as good.

GUTFELD: Yes, because they would change. The camera changes you -- Eric.

BOLLING: Yes, the breaks. So what do we talk about? It depends on what block it was, or what just happened during the block.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

BOLLING: I can't believe you just said that. Really? No, sometimes it's like that.

PERINO: Sometimes it's like, "Juan, do you really believe that?"

BOLLING: I think that the viewers would love to hear...

PERINO: They would love our commercial breaks.

BOLLING: You think?

GUTFELD: You know what the bad part about it is? Ninety percent of the time, we're looking -- we're doing this on our phones.


GUTFELD: At least I am.

PERINO: We're interacting with our viewers.

GUTFELD: Exactly. That's true.

All right. Juan, would you like to take a pass on this one?

WILLIAMS: No. By the way, you know what? I was thinking I really am not that great a swimmer. I'm a good swimmer, not a great swimmer. And you know what I did once? I took a wave runner out in the ocean.

GUTFELD: That's not good.

WILLIAMS: And I thought, you know, this is not smart and I kept going. And I just thought, I'm just going to prove. I'm going to just prove I can do it. And that was so stupid. But I guess you could describe it as high- risk banter (ph), because then a wave hit me.


WILLIAMS: And I capsized, and I was like, "Now I am truly blanked."

GUTFELD: But you know what you just said? The last thought in a person's head before they die is, "This is really stupid."


GUTFELD: You realize that. So the person is doing it. And all of a sudden the parachute doesn't open or they fall off a rock and they go, "This is so dumb." That's the last word.

WILLIAMS: And you know what else? Once I did this with my son, Tony, when he was on the back of the thing. Right? But we were just messing around at the edge of the ocean. And again it turned over, and now I had to like tell him -- I said, "Tony, stay in the back while I push this thing. I have to get it back upright." And guess what, I told him to go to the back and he said, "Dad, if I get in the back and you turn it on, it's going to blow me out.


WILLIAMS: Thank God he's smarter than his father.

PERINO: You're a terrible father.


GUTFELD: What do we talk about? Then one more question.

BILA: I talk about food. Juan sits next to me, he hears I am hungry the entire time.


BILA: So anyone who wants to bring me some tacos, I'm ready, man. I'm hungry 24-7.

GUTFELD: This is probably the best question. Eric, I'll go this way. What's your worst fear?

BOLLING: Phobias. I don't -- to be honest, my worst fear in the world is being broke. I was going -- going back to where I came from, I fear it.

GUTFELD: That's a legitimate fear. That's, you know.

PERINO: Yes. And motivating to keep working.


PERINO: My -- I'm afraid of drowning.

GUTFELD: Really?


GUTFELD: That's a good fear to have.

PERINO: If I have a cold and, you know, you go to bed and you have a cold and you can't breathe, I will often have a dream that I'm drowning.


PERINO: And that is my cue to wake up.

GUTFELD: And blow your nose. Interesting. You have a cue to go to the bathroom. And your brain saying, "Wake up, Greg. Don't do it here." It's true. I always see waterfalls. I see waterfalls. And my brain says, "Waterfalls!" And I get up and I run. Thank God the window is open -- Jedediah.

BILA: Yes, I'm afraid of hospitals. I know it's like a place you go where you often get better.

GUTFELD: You're afraid of sick people.

BILA: But I'm afraid of, like, disease and hospitals. The whole thing just scares me. I don't know. Like even when I go into a hospital, I get really nervous. I don't know.


WILLIAMS: I think the No. 1 fear is elevators. Because like...

PERINO: Oh, now you've done it. We are going to torture you.

WILLIAMS: You know, this is the thing about being surrounded by friends. No, because you grow up in the projects and the elevators break, nobody fixes it. So you get in and you think, "Oh, my God, does anyone know I'm in here? Is anybody going to get me out?"

PERINO: That's a way to make me feel terrible.

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go. Us white people again.

My worst fear is a subset of agoraphobia. I -- agoraphobia, I think, is a fear of open places. I get -- I have a fear of getting lost. It's true. If it's the -- from going out.

PERINO: Is that why you don't drive?

GUTFELD: No. I get to the airport, what, three hours before.

PERINO: Or more. Or more.

GUTFELD: That's because I have a fear that I might not get there. It drives my wife crazy. But it's a subset of agoraphobia, where it's not a fear of outside, but a fear of not getting home.

BILA: My friend has a fear of bridges that lead to unknown places.

GUTFELD: My sister has that.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Well, now there's GPS.

GUTFELD: I have a fear of GPS. I hate this little machine telling me where to go. Time for -- is it time for some adults in America to grow up? When "The Five" returns.

PERINO: What time is it?




ADAM SANDLER, COMEDIAN: I drew the duck blue because I've never seen a blue duck. And to be honest with you, I wanted to see a blue duck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's an excellent blue duck. Congratulations, you just passed the first grade.

SANDLER: Oh, that's so great. What do you think of that, Mr. Blue Duck?

"That's fantastic. Quack, quack, quack."


BILA: Adam Sandler revisited his younger years in "Billy Madison," and a lot of other adults these days seem to be doing the same. Coloring books for grownups have become an interesting new crazy, and so have adult preschools, where people are doing activities like finger painting and show and tell to reconnect with their inner child.

Gregory, you have been known to drink coffee out of a sippy cup now and then.

GUTFELD: That's true.

BILA: How do you feel about this whole toddler -- age of the toddler, you'd call it?

GUTFELD: We used to worry about kids growing up too fast. Now it's adults growing up too slow? Interesting.

This is a consequence of the most exceptional, successful system ever devised. We have men and women who have sacrificed. They fought and died and created an environment conducive to innovation, creativity and leisure. But the ultimate consequence is decline. Decline is the product of success.

The reason these people can do this is because thousands upon thousands of Americans are dead. They fought for that right to do nothing.

BILA: OK, but Dana, adulthood is hard. People have bills to pay. I mean, it's stressful, anxiety. I mean, if I want to sit on Saturday morning in a onesie and watch "The Smurfs," what's wrong with that?

PERINO: Greg does it every Saturday.

BILA: Exactly.

GUTFELD: Did you put a camera in my room?

PERINO: I can understand the desire to be creative and to get off of your phone and to do something that is artistic. But I probably wouldn't want to go to preschool again.

BILA: Really? I probably would. That's the sad part.

PERINO: I don't think I could. I don't like people that much.

BILA: Eric, I feel like you would be appalled by this. I mean, I have a giant -- I dressed as Catwoman last Halloween, and I have a giant Thor hammer in my living room. I'm an overgrown baby. So of course, I think this is awesome, but yell at me.

BOLLING: I'm not yelling at you, but there's a day for that. It's called Halloween. And you can actually find more opportunities to act like a child.

I guess it's all right. Who cares? Live and let live. Let me live. Can I live here?

WILLIAMS: Greg, you're in more touch with this. But didn't the hip-hop people for a while walk around with pacifiers?

BOLLING: Those weren't pacifiers?

BOLLING: Those were for -- they were raving and they were high on some ecstasy.

PERINO: Are you serious?


PERINO: Really?

WILLIAMS: And then they wore those caps that look like the caps you put on baby's heads. I just think it's -- and now coloring books.

BILA: Oh, man. I will be coloring after the show. He's not allowed.

All right, guys. "One More Thing" coming up next.


BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." Greg starts it.

GUTFELD: It's time for something.


GUTFELD: Greg's Celebrity Corner. Now in 3-D.


GUTFELD: All right. You know, when celebrities, like, go and do things, they often like to go on spas. Like Dana Perino, she loves to go on a spa, usually on the weekend. I think we have some tape of her at one of these luxury spas.





GUTFELD: There she is hanging out. She's on one of these weird retreats, where they just let her lie around.

BOLLING: What is that? A lion?

GUTFELD: It's a stuffed -- that's her stuffed animal. She gets very tired.

PERINO: It is relaxing.

GUTFELD: Four hundred dollars an hour.

PERINO: It's worth every penny.

GUTFELD: And you look so rejuvenated when you're done. That's actually a sloth.

PERINO: That's before hair and makeup.

GUTFELD: Look, they're feeding -- are they feeding you?

That's a sloth named Edward.

PERINO: You're so tired and so relaxed, they have to feed you with a baby bottle.

GUTFELD: Exactly. A lot like that.

PERINO: OK. Check this out. There's a reunion you're going to want to see. We have it here. This is Abby. She is 3 years old, a miniature Australian shepherd. On July 3, she heard fireworks, bolted out of her backyard and she ended up 500 miles away in Atlanta.

Here's the lesson in this: There's a little chip you can get for your dog. The reason that she was reunited with her owners -- look how happy everybody is -- is because she had this chip. So if you have a pet, you might want to consider that in case this ever happens.

GUTFELD: How do you put a chip in a dog?

BOLLING: How did she get 500 miles away? Do we know?

PERINO: Only Abby knows. Nobody knows how she got there. But she may have been picked up by a car. Uber dog?


BOLLING: All right. If you haven't noticed, I'm interviewing Donald Trump tomorrow morning. But check this out. We started the interview, and there's no one in Trump Tower there. By the end of the interview we walked out, and literally 4 or 500 people had gathered there. Whatever, love or hate him, he's certainly getting the interest and the attention of people. That's tomorrow morning.

PERINO: I think they were there for you.

BOLLING: No. I'm sure they weren't.

It's an interview tomorrow morning at 11:30 on "Cashin' In." We're going to do the whole half hour on Donald Trump.

All right, Jed. You're up.

BILA: All right. Well, Lifetime is releasing the unauthorized "Full House" story. You can see all the drama behind the scenes on team Uncle Jesse. We have a clip. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love the twins, but is there any way you can find babies who are a little more comfortable on stage?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Toddler veterans. We'll get right on that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's taking forever to get through one kid scene with the audience. How do you expect to get through an entire season?


BILA: It's going to be juicy, guys. I love this stuff. I am a sucker for this. Every show, I want to know everything that went on. I'm nosy. What can I say?

PERINO: You think that was real? Was it real?

BILA: A tell all, yes.

PERINO: That's a tell all? That wasn't a fake scene?

BILA: That's a scene, I guess, from the tell all.

BOLLING: What do you think are the odds it's not actually true?

GUTFELD: I had the time of my life on Lifetime.

BILA: Did you? What did you do?

GUTFELD: Why do I have to explain things?


WILLIAMS: All right. It's Friday night. It's date night, love night, romance. So look up, because tonight is a rare blue moon. It's the first blue moon since August of 2012. It's not really blue, although it looks blue in that picture. Because "blue moon" refers to the second full moon in any month. And this is the first time in 2 1/2 years that it's happened. The last was August of 2012. Next one, January of 2018.

This is not like an eclipse. You don't need special glasses to see it. Just hug somebody and look up at that lovely moon.

BOLLING: I'm going to go to the Black Whale tonight and have some...

PERINO: Blue Moons.

BOLLING: Blue Moons, exactly.

DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. Have a great weekend, everybody.

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