Huckabee defends comparison of Iran agreement to Holocaust
Republican presidential candidate: 'I will not apologize and I will not recant'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 27, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
President Obama is convinced almost the entire world supports his deal with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: There's a reason why 99 percent of the world thinks this is a good deal. It's because it's a good deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Mike Huckabee is convinced the agreement will have deadly repercussions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president's foreign policy is the most feckless in American history. He's so naive that he would trust the Iranians and he would take the Israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Obama hit back as a GOP presidential candidate at a news conference earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The particular comments of Mr. Huckabee are -- I think, part of just a general pattern that we've seen that is -- would be considered ridiculous if it weren't so sad. When you get rhetoric like this, maybe it gets attention and maybe this is just an effort to push Mr. Trump out of the headlines. But it's not the kind of leadership that is needed for America right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Governor Huckabee is here now to respond in his first TV interview since being mentioned by the president. Welcome to The Five, governor. It's a pleasure to have you with us.
HUCKABEE: Thank you. Good to see how you guys again and great to be with you today.
GUILFOYLE: Well, aren't you the big news maker of the day?
HUCKABEE: I didn't intend to be, but it looks like you know, when the president and Hillary Clinton are all calling you out personally, must be a good day.
GUILFOYLE: And do you stand by your comments?
HUCKABEE: Absolutely I do.
GUILFOYLE: What do you have to say to the president?
HUCKABEE: Absolutely I do. The last time the world did not take seriously threats, that someone was going to kill massive amounts of Jews, we ended up seeing 6 million Jews murdered. We didn't take it seriously. The Iranian government -- we're not talking about the blogger here, we're talking about the Iranian government has repeatedly said that it's going to be easier to take the Jews out because they're all concentrated in Israel. We won't have to go all over the world and hunt them. They've used the word holocaust. They've used that word. And talking about what they wanted to do, they refused in this negotiation to recognize Israel's right to exist. They refused to tone down their rhetoric and continue to say that the holocaust did not exist and that they're going to wipe Israel off the face of the map. When people who are in a government position continue to say they're going to kill you, I think somebody ought to wake up and take that seriously.
GUILFOYLE: All right. So Dana, you have a little bit of a follow up for this comment.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well I do because I -- so when President Obama, he's on -- on his Africa trip, he hears about this. There's always -- one of my rules is anytime a president goes overseas, something happens back home that you ended up having to respond to and that becomes the news of the day. And he has said repeatedly, that anybody who is against the deal that he is making with Iran, that they are warmongers, they just want more, which is unfair and serious. But I do think that form a rhetoric sampling, when you bring up the holocaust, everybody loses. And one of the things I think you'll see is that...
HUCKABEE: Well, let me ask you this, though.
PERINO: Well, can I finish this one thing.
HUCKABEE: OK.
PERINO: Which I think that for democrats who are on the fence of possibly refusing to go along with Obama on this deal, that then, all of a sudden they get pushed in a position of defending the president. And you even saw mansion today, West Virginia says he's probably going to support the deal.
HUCKABEE: Well, if I get credit for them supporting the deal, then I'm a much, much bigger deal than I think people thought I was. Look, here's what I would want to remind people. If we don't take seriously, the threats of Iran, then God help us all because the last time, its Neville Chamberlain all over again. We're going to just trusted. Everyone's going to do the right thing. Three times I've been to Auschwitz. When I talked about the oven door, I have stood at that oven door. I know exactly what it looks like, 1.1 million people killed. For 6,000 years, Jews have been chased and hunted and killed all over this earth. And when someone in a government says, we're going to kill them, I think, by gosh, we better take that seriously. And for the president to act like, that the only two options are either have a war or take his deal that got nothing. It got nothing. We didn't get the hostages out, we didn't get a concession that they would stop this rhetoric about wanting to wipe Israel off or, they didn't stop chanting death to America. We got nothing. I read the whole thing. And I read and I thought, you're kidding. This is it? This is the best deal? Why can't we criticize it?
GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: But governor, the point is you went a step -- I love you. We have a tremendous respect and affection for you. You would be a great president. You have the temperance. You have the experience. You are a good person and I know working shoulder to shoulder with you all those years, we shared on weekends here at Fox. But as a Jew, and I have to tell you, with people who work in the anti-defamation league and relatives on sides, the Levis, and the Riveras and the trademans (ph), it was inappropriate. There are some places you cannot go. You cannot compare the slaughter of 6 million Jews to anything other than -- maybe the slaughter of the Armenians or something else in history. You cannot compare it to a negotiation over a deal like this, governor. There are some things you have offended, many, many people in the Jewish community, not only the organized Jewish community, but the rank and file. It is inappropriate to compare the holocaust to anything. And if you start using that as a sloppily rhetorical phrase, you're going to get in trouble and...
HUCKABEE: Why do we have the holocaust museum in Washington? Why do we have the (inaudible) that I've visited dozens and dozens of times? Why do we have?
RIVERA: But particularly because they are sacred.
HUCKABEE: Why do we have it?
RIVERA: They are not to be (inaudible).
HUCKABEE: No, no, answer my question, though, Geraldo. Why do we have...
RIVERA: To remember.
HUCKABEE: To remember. Why do we need to remember?
RIVERA: To never forget.
HUCKABEE: To never forget.
RIVERA: To never forget.
HUCKABEE: Why, so that we never repeat it again? If we're on the verge of repeating it again with a nation that is threatening to do that very thing, how do we not bring up that language?
RIVERA: We don't even use that when there is a slaying in a school and multiple victims...
HUCKABEE: The word?
RIVERA: We still don't go there because...
HUCKABEE: The word?
RIVERA: It was the systematic...
HUCKABEE: Yes.
RIVERA: Attempt by an industrialize nation to wipe out a race of people. That is different. That is unique. You may not go there...
HUCKABEE: No, it is...
RIVERA: And I'm begging you to apologize and to retract that.
HUCKABEE: I will not apologize and I will not recant because the word holocaust was invoked by the Iranian government. They used that very word.
RIVERA: Are we going to go there then? When this...
HUCKABEE: Look, the purpose and no one love this no more.
RIVERA: Moonless are gone off today.
HUCKABEE: By the way, I've had more support...
RIVERA: Oh, you're sincere.
HUCKABEE: From the Jewish community, than I have had the retractions...
RIVERA: They condemn your remarks today.
HUCKABEE: Well, they condemn a lot of things people say, but the democrat Jewish community has been universal in condemning it. For them, it is a political issue. For me, it is not. It is a humanitarian issue. And when you have a government saying they're going to kill every Jew on the planet earth, and they use the term holocaust, I'm not sure why we have memorials about the holocaust if we're not going to remember. Why we had it? What happened to 6 billion Jews? How they were systematically murdered? And the fact is Geraldo, that's exactly what the Iranians have said for -- I mean, as long as the Ayatollahs have been in power for 36 years, they have continually said, we're going to kill every Jew. Now, at what point, when a gun is pointed to your head, do you not take that seriously?
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: OK, go ahead.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I was just pointing out. Governor, I've known you for a long time and I agree with Geraldo. You're a good man. You would be a great president. I respect all your work. My problem with the comment is not the comment itself. I've -- listen, I've married -- my wife is Jewish. I don't think she has a problem with it either. My problem is that it took the focus away from what President Obama said that 99 percent of the world is in agreement with this deal which I fully, fully disagree with, number one. And number two, who cares about the rest of the world. I care about what America is thinking...
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
BOLLING: Right now, I think there's 50 percent of Americans who hate this deal right now. And -- can we just focus on that for a little bit? Can you...
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
BOLLING: Answer President Obama's comment that 99 percent of the world is in agreement with the deal?
HUCKABEE: Well, here's the question. If it is such a great deal, how come none of that people in that neighborhood were for it? Why weren't the Egyptians and the Jordanians up until that you've end voted like, took the obligatory role. But the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, the Emirates, they're against it. They're all horrified of the deal. Why is it? If it is such a great deal that the people living closest, who have the most to lose, the soonest. Why is that they were they adamantly opposed to it? Why would Israel be opposed to it? It looks like they would be all about a deal. There's going to be safer and make it so that the Iranians would come down. Maybe it's because, they too have seen this movie before, and they know that it does not end well. I think it is a naive deal and it didn't get anything. I mean, you should have had some preconditions. The precondition should have been three things at least. Four hostages on American that were taken -- it should have been released. They should have been on the next plane home.
GUILFOYLE: No negotiations. Yeah.
HUCKABEE: You should have had a concession that no more anti-death to America talk, and no more talk about wiping Jews off the face of the earth and destroying Israel.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, OK. So you're talking about you want to focus on is the merits of the deal or the lack there of because you didn't do the deal with the Iran.
HUCKABEE: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: The president of the United States did, so that's on him. Tom, you have a comment and I'm going to move.
TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, I mean, I think I'm surprised everyone is so shocked by the statement. I think it is a completely sober statement to make because when they announced the deal they were saying death to America, death to Israel. So its makes sense to me.
GUILFOYLE: OK, great. All right, so let's talk again about foreign policy, the role of the United States, and I guess, the lack of confidence people seem to feel these days in terms of U.S. National Security and foreign policy, our position right now in the world.
HUCKABEE: Well, I think the reason they're feeling great anxiety is because if we really believe that we are under threat of Islamic Jihadism and the president won't come out and clearly define it as that. I think that's problematic. I think it's problematic that we continue to believe that somehow we can charm the snake back into the basket. We most certainly cannot. This is not a typical conflict between nation states that want to fight over a piece of real estate or a certain level of power. These are religious fanatics who want to kill us in the name of their God and who in doing so, will fulfill what they believe their mission on earth is. It's not to raise taxes or to lower taxes or to take a piece of land. It's to annihilate everyone who does not agree with their exact and very specific understanding of a religious caliphate.
GUILFOYLE: Then what do you think that the United States should be doing to strengthen ourselves like militarily and from a defense perspective. What would you do if you are a president?
HUCKABEE: Well for one thing, we would see the military beefed up dramatically. We're spending less money. Way back was the least preparedness since before World War II. Under the Reagan era, we were spending almost 6 percent of GDP, that all of the, for a minimum. The Chinese are outspending us three to one. The best way to keep from having a war is have a military that is so robust, so strong, so well trained, so prepared, that nobody on earth would be stupid enough to challenge them.
BOLLING: Governor, there was a big debate yesterday going on. The highway bill -- the senate got together. They passed the highway bill, but they also attached the Ex-Im Bank as an amendment to the highway bill and that thing kind of swept through. And there's a big uproar Senator Cruz, Senator McConnell got into it a little bit. Where are you on -- A, the highway bill and also, let's talk about the Ex-Im Bank, what would you do as president with both of those?
HUCKABEE: Well, the highway bill, I have a lot more affinity for because every billion dollars you spend building highways, you create 13,000 jobs. I mean, there is a definite advantage if you build it with a strategic goal in mind. So infrastructure in this country is in desperately bad shape. And so we do need to look the revamping of highways, bridges, overpasses, that's legitimate. About estimates of $3 trillion worth of infrastructure needs. I don't think the Ex-Im Bank is something worth defending. I believe that the marketplace can take that and handle it much better than a government subsidy. And frankly, government subsidies have not worked out real well, whether on the domestic front or the international front.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, don't go away because Governor Mike Huckabee stays with us. We're going to ask him how he plans to convince GOP voters to pick him for the nomination. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: All right. We're back with presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. He's in seventh place right now in the latest poll of GOP voters and independents who say they lean republican, and this is his second White House been governor. You won Iowa last time. We're just talking about...
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
PERINO: In 2008.
HUCKABEE: Eight, right.
PERINO: Eight and in 2012 to close. This year, you made a decision not to do the Iowa straw poll. Do you think there's a different path to the presidency than a traditional one?
HUCKABEE: Well, I think that the path is still the same. You have to organize and build structure in the early states. You have to connect with voters. One of the things that I think people don't understand about the value of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, the early states. Those states provide a wonderful service to the rest of America. They really filter through the candidates. And you can't just go and buy a bunch of media and sit it out. You have to go out there and shake hands. Talk to people, answer questions. You can't put the press in a rope. You're going to have to get out there and answer tough questions. And I think that that is a healthy part of our process of selecting a chief executive for this country.
PERINO: Tom, you didn't get a chance to ask a question last time with you.
SHILLUE: Well, I mean, this going to seem like a jokey question, but it's not. Do you ever wake up and think, I can't believe I'm doing this again?
HUCKABEE: You know I have those moments, but...
SHILLUE: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
HUCKABEE: You know what? Janet, actually, is very much for me doing this. And I will tell you this. I've said to people, if yours family is not with you, son run for office. I've heard people say, well, I'm thinking about running. My wife didn't with me up, but she'll come around. No, don't do it. It's hard enough when your life is 100 percent with you. I think it's impossible to try to go through this without it.
PERINO: And convince her along the way. Eric, do you have a question?
BOLLING: Governor, at this point, what are we, 12 days or so before the first debate? You must be doing debate prep?
HUCKABEE: Yes.
BOLLING: Who plays Donald Trump?
(LAUGHTER)
HUCKABEE: You know I don't prep that same way. What I do is prepare what I'm going to answer, not what someone else is going to answer because I've found if you want to pick out the counterfeit 20, you don't study 100 different ways of counterfeiting. You study the $20, the authentic thing. I need to go into that debate knowing what I believe, what I stand for. Listen to the question. Answer it as clearly as I can. I've always found that's a much better thing than worried about what someone else on the stage is saying.
RIVERA: Are you suggesting that Trump is the counterfeit bill?
HUCKABEE: No, I'm just suggesting that there's going to be 374 all other...
PERINO: You guys are terrible.
BOLLING: I think it's a very...
HUCKABEE: No.
BOLLING: Dana, it's a very valid question, right? Every candidate has to expect...
PERINO: I know. I agree...
BOLLING: The unexpected before it happened.
PERINO: I was actually going to ask him about his debate prep tricks as well, but even in the commercial break conversion, anyway. Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: I have a real question. So I was struck by some of the comments you made in the past about your motivations of why you were seeking this job, to be president of the United States which is really, the most important job in the world as I see it. You said quote, "I'm not a republican because I grew up rich. I'm a republican because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life poor...
HUCKABEE: Right.
GUILFOYLE: Waiting for the government to rescue me. Do you still feel that way?
HUCKABEE: I still feel that way. Look, I've lived the American dream. I grew up in a little rent house on second street in Hope, Arkansas, first male in my entire family lineage to graduate high school. I understand what it is like to love this country, but I will also tell you this. This country is not going to be the same for my grandchildren that it was for me, unless we make some remarkable and bold changes, and get it back on track where people can work and get a decent job. We know have seen five million manufacturing jobs disappears since the year 2000. Jobs are disappearing and I keep hearing the president say the economy is in recovery. And I'm telling you, I talk to people every day who sweat through their clothes, they lift heavy things and their economy is not in recovery.
PERINO: Can I ask you something about that?
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
PERINO: Because one of the things that I will intrigue by. You've kind to win a different way in terms of their way of Social Security...
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
PERINO: And to just in the retirees that there's a way to increase those. But the trustee's report -- every year they come out and they say, there's not enough money, so is there -- either a tax increase or a realignment of benefits for others going forward?
HUCKABEE: But first of all, I think it's a terrible thing to tell people who have worked for 51 years since they were 14. And their money was taken out of their checks and voluntarily. And then, when they're 10 years away from retirement saying, we were just kidding. We're not going to get that effort...
PERINO: Cutting it back?
HUCKABEE: You going to have to work an extra 10 years. Part of the problem is the way we fund Social Security and Medicare. It's all through payroll tax. One of the reasons that I'm a passionate supporter of the fair tax, which is a tax on consumption as supposed to income is because it helps create a levelized funding stream for these very important programs. The fewer number of people that are actually getting their paychecks through wages is dramatic. Most people get their wealth in America by dividends and by investment income. So as a result, you have a shrinking pool of money going into pay for those programs, 10,000 people retiring every day. Look, common sense says that doesn't work. So yes, let's change the funding stream to a more reliable one, which is the consumption tax.
SHILLUE: But doesn't common sense say that we should raise the retirement age, when it was set? This was at a time when people whose life expectancy was around 65. So I don't think you're telling them one thing and they say, oh, we're taking over. I mean, they didn't really pay in, did they? People take more money out of their Social Security than they put into it.
HUCKABEE: Some do, some don't. It depends on, you know, how much they put in. Some people put in an enormous amount. They'll never get their money back. But that's like insurance. You know, they say well, I didn't get all my money back. You know, if you have a car and you have it insured and you have a major wreck, chances are, you're going to come out better. But I don't think anybody says I want to have a wreck, so I can make sure I get my insurance worth.
RIVERA: Speaking of...
HUCKABEE: I mean nobody...
PERINO: They cannot.
RIVERA: Speaking of wrecks, Planned Parenthood now, the debate over this graphic --
HUCKABEE: Yeah.
RIVERA: The conversation about fetal body parts, et cetera. Do republicans risk -- however, outrageous that is and moves it a little bit later on the program. Do republicans risk the whole war on women Chapter 2 that the democrats will portray the investigations of Planned Parenthood, the efforts to defund Planned Parenthood as an attack on women's rights?
HUCKABEE: I think we risk something bigger but not answering the bold question, is it time that we start asking, what kind of civilization do we have that we would kill 60 million unborn children in their mother's womb over the force of 42 years? We have destroyed an entire generation. And we have not done it because of the health of the mother. Let's quit -- even going there. There's no health to the mother involved. This is a financial and a social decision in about 98 percent of the cases, and Planned Parenthood is in the business of providing abortion. And what we now know, they're in the business of selling baby's body parts like the parts of a Buick. For God sake, can we not have the bigger discussion on whether or not it's OK to call ourselves civilized, when we practice infanticide as we have for 42 years?
RIVERA: Even it doesn't work politically?
HUCKABEE: The political...
RIVERA: The 60 percent...
HUCKABEE: How do we expect the rest of the world to respect us as nations that civilize when we act like savages when it comes to our own unborn children?
BOLLING: Here's one way of kind of bridging that divide, Geraldo. Just stop using taxpayer money to fund it. You're not driving Planned Parenthood into bankruptcy...
RIVERA: Planned Parenthood are the...
BOLLING: By stopping the tax dollar.
RIVERA: They don't use those funds for that.
BOLLING: OK.
RIVERA: That's right.
PERINO: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
HUCKABEE: It was a pleasure. Thank you.
PERINO: And we appreciate, you know, we have your seat from...
HUCKABEE: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: We got the Huckabee's sit.
SHILLUE: I love what you've done with the place.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: See, that's why I have to sit on the pillow.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: OK. Tomorrow night, another candidate will be here, former Texas Governor Rick Perry as tune in for that tomorrow. Ahead, the president of Planned Parenthood, we're just talking about that, hits back at critics after two undercover videos expose one of the group's disturbing practices, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Planned Parenthood is now under congressional scrutiny after two tapes exposed officials discussing the sales of body parts of aborted babies. In her first TV interview on the scandal, the group's president denies any laws were broken and attempted to shift the focus to the video makers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECILE RICHARDS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD PRESIDENT: This entire effort is a complete political smear campaign in order to cut off funding for basic health care for women. We should not base any kind of decisions about health care in this country based upon highly sensationalized folks who are nothing but militant anti-abortion extremists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And now, two GOP presidential candidates on the controversy this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, 2016 GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is an abomination that Planned Parenthood has lobbied against a woman's opportunity to look at an ultrasound before she makes an incredibly difficult choice to end the unborn life within her and yet, they are using that same technology to harvest body parts.
RAND PAUL, 2016 GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the time is now to discuss whether taxpayer dollars should be going to such a gruesome procedure. People are outraged by this and I think the American people deserve to have a vote on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: All right, K.G., almost on cue, president Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards says, all those videos were taken out of context.
GUILFOYLE: Well, there's a lot of money at stake, isn't there?
BOLLING: $538 million bucks.
GUILFOYLE: There's a financial incentive to keep it. You know business as usual and to continue the flow of revenue into Planned Parenthood. And what they've said and Geraldo had mention is that they don't use this fund specifically for the person. But I mean any person with, you know, two cents can say, "OK, wait a second." They're turning the lights on. They're hiring people to work at the facility. You can't just parcel it out and say that none of the money is going to fund abortions and I guess my point is why do they have like a government right to receive a funding?
BOLLING: Yes. And I would agree with that, and I think that is at the very heart of the issue. By the way, foxnews.com you can find it taxpayer calculated and find out how much of your tax dollars are actually going to Planned Parenthood. At around $50,000 of income you can give him $15 a year at 250 or given 420. Dana, Kirsten Gilibrand, a senator from New York is fundraising off this controversy saying, look at what the right is doing, they're trying to take away your rights.
PERINO: This is like I mean that just from a tactician standpoint, if you're a political operative, and Cecile Richards is one of the very best. I mean, if they are doing what for them is in their best political interest. I disagree with it but I would tell you it is -- will be effective for them. They will be able to fundraise off of this. And as Geraldo was asking the governor, does -- do the Republicans run this risk?
I actually think at this point they could run a risk about the war on women coming back, but I also think that they run a risk with their own voters and supporters and if they don't stand firm on this. Senator Paul has an amendment that he has proposed and Senator McConnell has put that on a fast-track for a vote. And I think that they'll probably succeed.
BOLLING: And Geraldo there are several states attorneys general had decided to look into Planned Parenthood whether breaking the law...
RIVERA: Well they should.
BOLLING: And but here in California DAG Kamala Harris ...
RIVERA: What?
GUILFOYLE: Kamala.
BOLLING: Kamala Harris, sorry had decided looking at film makers and see if they violated laws.
RIVERA: Well that's silly. Let me -- I have to say broadly that one of my least favorite things on earth is when old men send young men to war, old men particularly those who never fought. The send young man who I hate that. I also hate when old men oppose abortion late in life for they were young men when abortion work for them. They were all for it in the 70s and 80s. Now they are deep into middle age, they see the light and that's happened to several of these Republican candidates. The have -- including my dear friend Donald Trump. He was in favor of abortion rights and now he's against it. You know, he says he saw an ultrasound and they all see ultrasounds. And if the script to Republicans and candidates of felony if they were oppose, if they were pro-choice before, now they're pro-life because they saw their grandchild in Utero ultrasounds. I don't buy it.
GUILFOYLE: But are you oppose to evolution of thoughts and of humanity and of respecting the sanctity of life.
RIVERA: I think that I attach a sincerity meter Kimberly to everything and mine shows red.
Now to the -- whether or not they are right to bring up the Planned Parenthood, there is a callousness among those who are arguing for a women's right to choose that has become ingrained and institutional and was (inaudible)
BOLLING: No one is arguing Geraldo.
RIVERA: Was a painfully there ...
BOLLING: I don't think anyone at this state, no but the point you're ...
RIVERA: But I'm agreeing with you. Your letting -- I'm about to agree with you.
BOLLING: It is the same thing that they left us over and over again, they turn the argument. The argument on the table right now, should Planned Parenthood be funded by taxpayer money? Yes or no?
RIVERA: Planned Parenthood says they do 97 percent of what they do is non- abortion related. They're funding the 500 million that Kimberly reference is I think one-fifth of the total fund.
BOLLING: Is that a yes?
RIVERA: The answer is that taxpayers by law, the high amendment and so forth are protected against their money being used to fund abortion.
BOLLING: But how in the world Tom, how in the world if they do 327,000 abortions a year, we pay them $538 million per year, how can you not assign a dollar to an abortion? You have to be able to do it. It's one of the services ...
SHILLUE: Obviously.
BOLLING: And I by the way
RIVERA: I wholeheartedly disagree, what was your percentage?
BOLLING: 93.
RIVERA: 3 percent.
BOLLING: 3 percent they say is abortion.
SHILLUE: I wholeheartedly disagree with the 3 percent. I'm just saying what the -- but yeah, I mean they're talking that because they just -- all the other expenses they have except what, the actual procedure is but it doesn't matter.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
SHILLUE: I mean, you could say that about any business that 98 percent of our money is spent doing, you know X or Y. The thing is that of course I don't know why it is so hard politically to stop funding Planned Parenthood. You know, does this come up for votes occasionally in you know, I don't know how they can't have the votes.
RIVERA: They'll be a perfect way to fuel Hillary Clinton's ascendancy to favor in this race is to oppose Planned Parenthood. You are playing into the Democrats game.
SHILLUE: I don't care.
RIVERA: If you don't care then by all means ...
SHILLUE: You know I don't want to talk it but the game, why don't -- I don't understand why it's so hard to say should we, you know, cut the Planned Parenthood. I don't care what they're spending the money for. Yeah I don't understand how taxpayers where half of the country is against it.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
SHILLUE: How are we forcing them to pay for it?
GUILFOYLE: Let them get private funding.
BOLLING: Can I state, there was a -- Senator Cruz, I think trying to get a Planned Parenthood defending amendment attached to that highway bill. Why wouldn't they push that through?
PERINO: Well, I think tactically in the Senate, it makes sense because as you heard Governor Huckabee talk about the highway bill, how it creates jobs, so there is bipartisan support for the highway bill that includes Senator Barbara Boxer of California. She -- if Planned Parenthood hadn't attached, you will not get a highway bill. What Senator McConnell did is put Senator Paul's amendment.
RIVERA: Right.
PERINO: On a fast-track so you can actually get both things done.
BOLLING: All right. We're going to leave here right there. Are we good, can we go?
GUILFOYLE: I love (inaudible).
RIVERA: (inaudible) loves (inaudible).
All right next, the head of the RNC on the idea of Donald Trump running as a third-party candidate. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHILLUE: Donald trump recently flirted with the idea of running as a third-party candidate if the Republican Party didn't embrace him. The head of the RNC said he doesn't see it happening, but advised against it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN SPEAKER: Our candidates should pledge not to run as a third-party candidate. If Hillary Clinton is going to get beat, she's going to get beat for a Republican. And most people that run for president run to win. And if our candidates want to win, then they'll have to run as a Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE But Donald says now he is getting support from his party after surging to the top of the polls, but Chuck Todd suggest he'd secretly still like to break away for this reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, NBC POLITICAL DIRECTOR: If he runs as a third party it likely makes Hillary Clinton president or whoever the Democratic nominee is. And you know what? In his mind, he would say "I'm the reason why she got elected and I could picture him wanting to have that honor."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: Donald Trump will appear on "Hannity" tonight and we got a sneak peek. He addresses the prospect of a third-party run.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENCIAL CANDIDATE: So many people want me to run as an independent. I don't want to do that. And why would I do that? I'm leading with all the Republicans, I'm leading and in some cases -- you just stated by a big margin. Now, my preference and what I want to do is to run as a Republican and win. And I think I will win, I think I'll win in the primaries, and I think I'll win ultimately and I'll make our country great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHILLUE: Well, Kimberly of course, he threatened, right. That's how you get what you want. You throw a little tantrum. And he said he might -- he kind of floated that that he was going to leave and then the Republican Party started treating him well, right?
GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean he's strategy not for nothing he is dominating the news wave, so he's doing something to be able to still stay on the top stories, the leads of the day. I think he's a very confident individual. I think he believes what he's saying and so far, you know, he's not going anywhere. So the reason that (ph) just deal with it.
SHILLUE: Dana, was Chuck Todd fair? Do you think he would actually?
PERINO: Wait start again. Getting track (ph). Yeah, OK.
SHILLUE: I mean that assessment that he would bolt and create a third party to get Hillary elected and say I did it. I mean, that's a little weird.
PERINO: It's a convoluted way of look at it. If I were Donald Trump, I would have said "I'm running as a Republican. Did you not see my announcement six weeks ago? I'm running as a Republican." Because one of the things he's going to have to do if he continues is to try to convince Republican voters that he's a reliable Republican. That's probably his biggest achilles heel. So, I wouldn't even flirt with the idea anymore as I not answering that question. I'm running as a Republican. Stop sentence.
SHILLUE: Well, it would be good for I guess the Republican establishment.
PERINO: But he sounds like if he changes his mind down the road, then he can change his mind down the road but for now if wants the Republican nominee just say that. That's all you have to say.
SHILLUE: But, Eric, he wanted them to lay off him, right? He felt like he was getting ganged up on.
BOLLING: And he was. He was having a hard time. The RNC was remember there was -- the hold up whether there's a phone call, whether discussions going back and forth. And he was taking a lot of hit from what will be call this establishment Republican structure. And so, someone asked him would you entertain the third-party candidacy and he may have said yes. I think he said "Well, yeah, I would listen to anything.
He's leading. He's number one. The newest polls have him 4 -- real clear political average has 4.5 percentage points ahead of Jeb Bush right now. Why would they be asking him if he would run as a third-party? Right now, he's the candidate. So until further notice they should be asking I don't know Jeb or someone else if that question. But they're doing it for a reason. They're doing it so they can see if he can hook him to say "Yes, I will." And then they go sell it to base saying, hey, this is the guy -- if Hillary Clinton wins, he might be the reason for it.
PERINO: I don't think that's why the media is asking. I think the media is asking because it keeps it in the news.
BOLLING: I'm sure.
SHILLUE: Well, Geraldo. I mean, is this guy a master or what? He's leading in the polls, he's rich, and he can still play the underdog. How does he do that?
RIVERA: Well, I tell you this is Smith (ph). The Republican Party is virtually irrelevant to Donald Trump. He needs their line on the ballot box, but he's way bigger than Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC. He's bigger than the entire structure maybe bigger than the party itself. Right now when he self fund and you look at Jeb Bush and has made, I don't know 100-some million dollars. That's like the interest on Trumps, you know, shaving account. He can really challenge, in 1912, it was devastating a third party in '92 it was devastating when Ross Perot ran and Teddy Roosevelt in 1912. Trump would decimate the Republican Party. He could win, though. I mean, he could get 35 percent of the vote.
SHILLUE: Well, OK. All right catch Trump on "Hannity" tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Next the daughter or Whitney Houston passed away yesterday after being found unresponsive in a bathtub half a year ago. The questions still remain about Bobbi Kristina Brown's death. We'll discuss ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RIVERA: One of the greatest pop singers of all time, Whitney Houston as you know, drowned in a bathtub back in 2012 in Beverly Hills. More than three years later almost exactly three years I should say. Her daughter now is gone as well. Bobbi Kristina Brown died yesterday after she was found also ironically and this is a bit irony unresponsive in a bathtub that was six months ago. They finally -- she finally passed yesterday. She was only 22 years old. An initial autopsy found no significant injuries, but additional tests now will be performed.
You know, Kimberly, I heard that she was found with a bruise on her chest. Now, six months have passed since the injury, since she was found unresponsive face down in the bathtub. You know in your experience as a prosector -- in terms of a criminal investigation, it seems extremely hampered by the six months that passed between the incident and the final pulling of the plug.
GUILFOYLE: Well, so this is going to be very interesting because it's like you're taking an environment that would be forensically rich, right, and from a pathology standpoint. When you're the medical examiner, you want to get in there and examine everything right away when the tissues are still relatively fresh close connected to the injuries or whatever might have cause the dead.
RIVERA: Right.
GUILFOYLE: So now you're seeing this stretched out six months. And I will think of it as when you're trying cases it, a defense attorney is going to jump in and say "But you can't prove this beyond a reason without because this much time has passed." How do you know because now we've lost the chance to make certain in fact exactly what happened to or was it because some of the allegations, because he's been investigating Nick Gordon...
RIVERA: Nick Gordon her boy friend
GUILFOYLE: ... who was a lot of time companion.
RIVERA: He's last husband.
GUILFOYLE: Correct. He went into rehab right after this incident and then there, he is being sued by the court appointed that protector of her estate to say, "Wait a second, this is a guy who transferred money without her knowledge, without her approval, into his own account and then allegations of domestic violence and assault and some physical injuries on the body.
So, I'm telling you that I would not be surprised if you saw some charges coming against him whether they'll be able to make the case against as a different scenario.
RIVERA: Well they could make I think the financial case is an easier case to make...
GUILFOYLE: For sure. I'm talking criminal.
RIVERA: ... and obviously any kind of -- well that could be criminal but it wouldn't be a murder case.
Dana, when you hear the dysfunction here that Bobbi Brown, her father was a junkie, Whitney died essentially of an overdose drowning, here comes the child. I mean. Does it feel (ph) the sense that this entire you know, population, this whole pop culture is going to spoil it?
PERINO: Well, I think it would -- I think every family goes through trials and tribulations, right? That steadily it has its disproportionate share of it. It's terribly sad but I'd also feel like -- and you know, I read the entire if I could -- just to me, it feels like such a personal matter for the family. I do hope that they do get to the bottom of it because as Kimberly is explaining, I hope there was no foul play. I hope there was foul play.
RIVERA: You hope there was no foul play?
PERINO: Yes, I hope so for all of their sakes but I also hope that they get some answers.
RIVERA: You know, and then isn't it a tragedy all right that it overshadows the great talent of the mom, Whitney Houston, one of the greatest singers as ever.
BOLLING: Ever, if not the great -- but by the way, the greatest pre-game national anthem ever sung if listen to it on YouTube, its amazing. And you just go back to the day that Whitney Houston hooked up with Bobby Brown and everyone said, "Why?" What's going on there and she was at the top of her career and then not that far after, she ended up having some well, documented drug issues and then she passes with drugs in her system. And then Bobbi Kristina passes with drugs in her system. It's such a sad spiral. You just wonder original...
GUILFOYLE: Again, he is right now, according to the district attorney's office, a person of interest. Not in.
RIVERA: Bobby Brown is.
SHILLUE: No, actually Bobby Brown is the father. Nick Gordon.
GUILFOYLE: I'm saying Nick Gordon is actually a person of interest and could be charged criminally with a potential manslaughter, homicide in this case.
RIVERA: How do you deal with this on "red eye"?
SHILLUE: I won't to cover and do the story because as you know, we like to lighten things up late at night but it is a terrible story and I remember that national anthem. It was when I moved to New York City. I stopped my car and I remember when she was singing that. I pulled over and I got a beer. It was amazing.
RIVERA: "One More Thing" is up next. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." Eric.
BOLLING: All right, so, we've heard the story all weekend long about two - - the heartbreaking story about the two 14 year old boys who went on fishing boat Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos. They let Jupiter, just the two of them and the boat was found capsized 70 miles east of Daytona, which is central Florida, Jupiter, South Florida extremely sad, they're still looking coast guards that they're recalculating drift patterns. So everyone keep.
GUILFOYLE: Praying.
BOLLING: The prayers out for these two that they're found, that someone picked them up and that they're safe. So we just -- they're in our prayers.
GUILFOYLE: And for their families too must be so worried. Dana.
PERINO: All right I'm going to try to redeem myself after a terrible "One More Thing" week last week. So we're going to be kicking up strong, all right? In Boise, Idaho, last Wednesday, a cyclist, stopped to go into the bathroom in a ravine and he was worried about leaving any evidence so he decided to light a match to burn the toilet paper. Well the problem is he started a wildfire, burned 73 acres. It took firefighters seven hours to put it out. Now he -- we don't know his name -- he did turn himself in and apparently the story matched evidence found at the ignition site -- so I'm not sure what that could possibly be -- but the BLM is protecting him and not releasing his name, which is probably good for him.
GUILFOYLE: Meaning that's where the fire started...
PERINO: So here's -- there's a lesson in my "One More Thing".
RIVERA: Don't burn your toilet paper?
PERINO: Don't try to burn your toilet paper.
BOLLING: Bring the flash light.
PERINO: As (inaudible).
GUILFOYLE: Well it's always a cover up that you're busted for or an honest crime.
PERINO: Thank you for saving my one more thing (inaudible).
GUILFOYLE: Martha Stewart. Yes. That's called an assist.
PERINO: Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: OK.
RIVERA: Erica and I picked up -- Erica, not Eric -- Erica and I picked up our beautiful 10 year old soul, almost 10 year old -- August 2nd is her birthday at camp in New Hampshire. Sleep away camp, four weeks it was excruciating and she had a great time her parents were mourning her absence. So Erica and I picked her up, we took her to Boston.
First, we did the Tea Party tour in the American Freedom Trail, we went to Thomas Haynes and Paul Revere's and you know, where they threw the (inaudible) is really, really wonderful and then as a special treat on Saturday night, we took her to see Taylor Swift at Gillette Stadium. Taylor Swift put on an amazing show. Taylor Swift is a wonderful, wonderful role model for these little girls. There was sea of little girls and their dads and moms. It was really wonderful, it was very touching. And I think Taylor Swift would make a great president.
GUILFOYLE: All right. There'll be apology coming after that.
All right, I had the pleasure to meet Carly Fiorina in person here when she was on the Riley Show and in fact, she will be giving -- as you know, she is a presidential candidate for 2016. She'll be giving a major foreign policy speech tonight at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. So a lot of lot of people are wondering what her foreign policy would be like and we're going to get a chance to hear about it and perhaps a little bit more about it tomorrow on the show.
SHILLUE: All right. Take a look at this. I love balloons and I love world records. 433 hot air balloons set a new world record in France. That's fantastic. Isn't it?
GUILFOYLE: That's great.
SHILLUE: I used to deliver balloons.
GUILFOYLE: Hot air balloons?
SHILLUE: Yeah -- no, I deliver balloons and I sang a songs. It was an old business of mine.
RIVERA: I could see you doing that.
PERINO: Right.
SHILLUE: I'm just glad your daughter join the Tea Party.
GUILFOYLE: (inaudible) your DVRs for tomorrow night. Presidential candidate, Rick Perry is going to be here. That's it for "The Five". "Special Report" is next.
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