Rep. King calls for more surveillance after Tenn. attack
Reaction to deadly shooting at Chattanooga military facility being investigated as domestic terrorism on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 16, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, brave members of the U.S. military murdered on American soil. The FBI investigating this as an act of terrorism. And we have breaking news right now on reports that put the gunman's father in the middle of a previous terror investigation.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. The morning was shattered by gunshots in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Around 10:45 Eastern Time, eyewitnesses say, a man pulled up outside a military recruiting center and opened fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard a loud pop. And we got through the window to see what was going on. We saw the silver convertible mustang. And he was just unloading some type of large rifle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has his drop top and he moved to the side and last thing you know, he lifted up his arms like this with a big, black gun, and just, it was one shot, and then it was just endless shots, one after another, just unloading.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Inside, unarmed military recruiters. Prohibited by law from carrying firearms. One marine reportedly wounded. Look at the bullet- riddled store front. You can see a sign circled in red. Look at this. It reads, "No guns." Not from anyone inside, at least. From there, the shooter fled in his car, police in hot pursuit. His next target, a navy and marine corp reserve center just miles away. He arrived and once again opened fire. An eyewitness saying she heard what sounded like 100 shots. And when it was all over, four marines were dead. One marine, one female sailor, and one police officer were wounded. Here is video of the suspect's car.
A U.S. defense official telling us he tried to ram it through the reserve center gates. Police caught up to him there. The gunman is now dead. Authorities are not releasing whether they killed him or whether he took his own life when cornered by law enforcement. Here's what we do know about this suspect. His name is Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24-year-old, born in Kuwait. Raised in Jordan were told until they moved here. His citizenship has been reported to be naturalized American, but it remains unclear whether that's true.
In just the last hour we saw reports that his father, this is the "New York Times" reporting, his father had been under investigation several years ago for possible ties to a foreign terrorist organization. But reportedly, the son, Muhammad was not on the FBI's radar. And we also just got these pictures. Police storming a house where Muhammad is thought to have lived. The police taking several women out in handcuffs. Originally we had heard two. Now we know it may be more than two. Within hours of the attack, FBI Director James Comey was in the oval office briefing President Obama. Right now we don't know if there are links here to foreign terrorists but the Islamic state in Syria has been calling on homegrown terrorists to target and kill U.S. military personal over the Islamic holiday of Ramadan which ends tomorrow.
Tonight, we have with us Congressman Pete King, former chair of the House Homeland Security Committee. Colonel Tony Schafer who has done work with the CIA. And Captain Pete Hegseth who is the CEO of Concerned Vets for America. But we begin with our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge tonight. Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Megyn, what's key tonight based on our reporting is that the 24 year old suspect was not on the FBI's radar. This is the kind of case Director Comey has been warning about. In the 14 years since I've covered this beat, it's significant that within hours of the attack, Comey was in the oval office, the FBI was in the lead. And the starting point for the investigation is domestic terrorism, until the evidence shows otherwise. The next step for the FBI tonight is a drill down on the suspect's network of contacts and a forensic review of his electronics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED REINHOLD, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: We're going to do an intense look at him to see if, what his connections are, look at his friends, family. Associates, anybody who is associated with him, to determine the cause or the reason why he conducted this attack.
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HERRIDGE: Significant that the shots fired at the recruitment center are clustered, indicating control and practice with the weapon. As you mentioned, the same shooter also opened fire at a second location. Reporters were told today the suspect was heavily armed and with no known connection to the U.S. military. At this hour, homeland security is ramping up security at federal facilities. We understand that to be military facilities, out of an abundance of caution, emphasizing there's no credible threat, but, again, there was no warning the Chattanooga attack was imminent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any prior indication that there might be an attack today?
REINHOLD: No, we had no intelligence indicating there would be any type of an attack today.
HERRIDGE: And tonight, counterterrorism source who tracks social media for the U.S. Intelligence Agency says, there is a celebratory tone on the ISIS Arabic accounts, though no evidence yet, that this is connected to the shooter directly, Megyn.
KELLY: Hmm. Catherine, thank you. Joining us now, republican Congressman Peter King who is a member of the Homeland Security and Intelligence Committees. Congressman, good to see you tonight.
REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y.: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: And so first of all, let's start with the reporting by the "New York Times," that this suspect's father was placed on a terrorist watch list. Years ago they said that he was questioned while on a trip overseas and that he was ultimately removed from that list. Have you heard that? Would this be something you would have heard by this point in this investigation?
KING: Megyn, I was just talking to my staff. We have not heard that. We've seen the same reports that you've seen. But as far as having them confirmed by the FBI or the National Counterterrorism Center, no, not yet, but obviously that's going to be a main source of investigation.
KELLY: We are also hearing reports tonight, this has been posted by the Daily Beast that this suspect kept a blog, and on that blog there is quite a bit of musings or two postings, I should say, two days ago, about Islam. I want to bring the audience what he reportedly wrote. Here's the first one. "I would imagine that any sane person would devote their time to mastering the information on the study guide." Some study guide he talks about with respect to Islam. "They would do this because they know and have been told that they will be rewarded with pleasures that they have never seen." He goes on to say, "Life is a test designed to separate the inhabitants of paradise from the inhabitants of hellfire." And goes on to talk about the roles he need to play and we need to play to establish Islam in the world. What does it mean to you?
KING: Well, it certainly seems that his mind is going in that direction. Now, in all fairness to the FBI, anyone else, that alone would not be enough to anticipate an attack, but it does show his mind-set. And it also makes it all the more important right now that he be fully investigated. That his computers, his associates, his family members, everyone else, and he also shows, Megyn, the importance I believe why we have to have surveillance. I think we should have more security at the recruiting stations. I think they should be armed inside. But with all of that, even more important than that is to have the intelligence. And now the people at the "New York Times," the Civil Liberties Union and others say, we should be cutting back on surveillance. We have to have surveillance on the Muslim community. It's not profiling, it's common sense. Because that's where -- is going to come from. And ISIS is encouraging this and more than ever. It's important that we know.
KELLY: How significantly have we rolled that back under President Obama?
KING: President Obama has been good in some cases overseas, but not here. Not here. The fact is the FBI is under restraints, I think Jim Comey is doing a great job himself, but the whole tone is against any type of what they call profiling, what I call good intelligence, good surveillance. And the presumption is against, for instance, investigating mosques, finding out what's going on in mosques, finding out what's going on in different Muslim organizations. Because that's the reality. When they were going after the mafia, they went after Italian organizations. After the wests, the Irish organization. If you're going after Muslim terrorists, you have to go after the Muslim community and you have to forget all this nonsense about political correctness and calling it profiling. It's not. It's common sense.
KELLY: Congressman Peter King, thank you.
KING: Megyn, thank you.
KELLY: Well, we don't know whether this suspect was influenced by the Islamic state or al Qaeda. As Catherine Herridge Mentioned, it was only a week ago that the director of the FBI was talking specifically about the threat of young people being radicalized online. Watch. Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're pushing this through Twitter. So it's no longer the case that someone who's troubled needs to go find this propaganda and this motivation. It buzzes in their pocket. So, there is a device, almost a devil on their shoulder all day long saying, kill, kill, kill, kill.
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KELLY: Joining us now, Colonel Tony Shaffer, senior fellow at the London Center for Policy Research. He was there saying specifically, I can't stop this from happening and now it did.
COLONEL TONY SHAFFER, LONDON CENTER FOR POLICY RESEARCH: He's been tracking over 100 people full time. And they actually have had about 50 arrests that we have not heard much about. They've disrupted these cells. No doubt Megyn. But the problem is this, the ISIS folks have adapted. We did something called able danger before 9/11. And we were trying to target as Peter King just said. The mosques that's a command-and-control center for a lot of these things as well as something called dark web. ISIS more than any of their terrorist organizations learned how to use technology rapidly.
I'm going to predict that we're going to come to find that this guy was plugged in. Those are code words, this little thing, it was probably, in some website, you have to put the numbers in exactly to go to. And some secret, little meeting place on the web. That's what they were doing before 9/11. That's what they're doing now to get in to that. It's not NSA, it's human intelligence, these guys and gals, sitting undercover online going into these chat rooms. We need to get back to doing that. And going as Peter King said, you're going to go after Islam. You're going to go with the mosques. We knew that they used the mosques for command and control and exclusive operations before 9/11, they're doing it again now.
KELLY: Now, we don't know, I said, you know, and then they did. We don't know for sure whether this is an ISIS-inspired attack, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence tonight.
SHAFFER: Absolutely. Look, there's this thing going around called Black Lives Matter. Military lives matter. We now know that the military is a target. They have targeted a father and son last year. Catherine Herridge reported on it. Father and son Air Force team last year online. And we said it's just a matter of time before they break out and start doing things in the real world. Here we are.
KELLY: Uh-mm.
SHAFFER: Nidal Hasan. He recognized that the area he was in was a gun free zone. I bought a fire arm, a pistol at Fort Belvoir, Virginia at the Exchange. I was, like, escorted off the base rapidly.
KELLY: Yes. We're going to talk about that.
SHAFFER: Anyway --
KELLY: Hegseth is up next on that because there's a lot of outrage tonight. And the fact that U.S. marines are standing there unarmed, gunned down by some punk. I want to ask you this.
SHAFFER: Sure.
KELLY: Just in June, the Islamic State spokesperson released an audio message asking followers during Ramadan which ends this weekend, to turn it into a time of calamity for the infidels. We keen to concur in this holy month to become exposed in martyr dome and we've been told repeatedly that they want to hit military members. Should we be turning some of these so- called soft targets into harder targets? I mean, I'm not just talking about armed military men and women. Not in the strip mall. Some place where they are more protected.
SHAFFER: We should do that. We've been trying to convince the military to step away from spending money on commercial facilities, putting things on bases. There's this huge facility in Northern Virginia off post, middle of nowhere. It's a big pentagon offshoot, not protected by anything, a huge target that no one wants to talk about, absolutely. Secondly, you do have to go with the micro level as well. You've got to present individuals. There's no reason for people like me or others who are retired or active to be armed and be good citizens to do this. There's absolutely no reason to stop it. And we are at war. There's a war now. We need to figure out how to win that war. President Obama needs to declare ISIS an existential threat to the United States and let us do our job.
KELLY: Uh-mm. Girl, thank you. Good to see you.
SHAFFER: Thank you.
KELLY: Also tonight, dramatic new developments with that disturbing video of a Planned Parenthood doctor, the head of the abortion services talking about, harvesting of the organs of aborted fetuses in exchange for payments.
Plus, as Colonel Shaffer just mentioned, members of the military are talking about how this gunman murdered these marines at a federal facility where the marines were not allowed to have their guns, but their lives were lost to a madman with one.
John Roberts and Pete Hegseth are coming up on that. And 2016 presidential candidate Scott Walker is also here on how Washington is handling this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINHOLD: Typically, someone cannot bring a weapon into federal property unless they're authorized to do so.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we just confirmed moments ago that the suspected gunman here that murdered four marines and injured several others was shot and killed by law enforcement and did not kill himself. Well, at the same time, a number of folks are asking why America trains some of the best fighters in the world, then puts them in these federal facilities where they are vulnerable, and they are unarmed. Essentially, sitting ducks for would-be Jihadist.
Here with us now, 2016 presidential candidate Governor Scott Walker. Also Iraq and Afghanistan combat vet Pete Hegseth. But we start with senior national correspondent John Roberts who is live in Chattanooga with the very latest. John.
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, good afternoon to you. Just across the Amnicola Highway from that Reserve Center where those four marines were shot dead in cold blood. At a fifth, a sailor were shot as well. We're going to update you on that information just a second. But let's give you a lay of the land here, it's going to be a long night here at this reserve center, the FBI in a convoy of black sub- urbans just brought in a bunch of portable lights with generators. They're going to be going at it all night picking up forensic evidence trying to put together the pieces of what happened earlier today.
Now, we can fill in a few of the blanks for you. Seven people in total shot. Four marines killed. A police officer wounded in the ankle. He was wounded here at the reserve facility. A marine who was slightly wounded in the leg, bullet grays. And that female sailor, according to Jennifer Griffin, our refined Pentagon correspondent that sailor is in surgery, said to have very serious wounds, and she was shot here at this reserve facility. Now let's take a look at some aerials from earlier in the day when the sun was up, and you will see exactly what this guy Abdulazeez had to do to get into this facility. You see his car there in the parking lot. Either make his way to an s-curve, barriers. And to get up enough speed to smash through that gate that was wrapped around the front of his car which he then either backed away from or just by sheer force of a momentum, it fell off the front of the car, and that's when he opened fire.
Let's take you back to the scene at the recruiting center on the Lee Highway. Take a look here, the number of bullets that were fired through that front window and all the shell casings, the brass that were very, very close. He had to be just feet away from that in the care when he opened fire. And look at this, almost ringing a sign that says, no firearms inside. That's because a 1992 directive that was written by President George H.W. Bush's administration and then signed and implemented rather during the Clinton administration severely limited carrying firearms in military bases and military offices. Except Megyn, and this is important when required for law enforcement or let's put up the tax when there was a reasonable expectation that life or DOD assets will be jeopardized if firearms are not carried. I think a lot of people will be re-examining that clause in the light of what happened today -- Megyn.
KELLY: Absolutely, John. Thank you. Pete Hegseth is a Fox News contributor and he's the CEO of Concerned Veterans for America. Also, an Iraq Afghanistan war veteran. Pete, good to see you.
PETE HEGSETH, CEO, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: Uh-mm.
KELLY: They're sitting ducks. The warnings, I mean, just preparing for the show tonight. I found a dozen of them. A dozen warnings about the threat to military centers, and yet there they stood, marines unarmed.
HEGSETH: Unarmed. You know, this radical Islamic scumbag is rotting in hell somewhere as this nation remembers and reveres these marines who gave their lives for this country. We are at war. Islamics are at war with us. And this incident must reignite whether or not we will arm those members in these facilities and give them the ability to fight back. I mean, the guy who shot at them said, he wants to establish Islam around world which is exactly what Islamists want. They're at war with us over here and over here. And they are going to go to our recruiting stations and our intelligence have told us as the FBI director said it last week, if we are not willing to arm these guys, they will be sitting ducks, and I have to believe this will reignite a national debate. After not just this, but we'll have it in Fort Hood, and the Navy Yard and Fort Dix, all of those indexes were places in gun-free zones where military members are not able to fight back in the immediate response.
KELLY: So, here's the situations. The warnings are all over the place about the threat to military facilities, including the FBI, DHS, the National Counterterrorism Center to warning military personnel, be vigilant. Threat to U.S. military bases and locations, you could be targeted and so on. That goes out there. Then, on top of that, we know that they're planning on hitting during Ramadan, which is right now.
HEGSETH: Right now.
KELLY: Then on top of that, you have the director of the FBI testifying just eight days ago, I'm overwhelmed. I can't stop it. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are stopping these things so far through tremendous hard work, the use of sources, the use of online undercovers, but it is incredibly difficult. Right? I cannot see me stopping these indefinitely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And still no one thought to say, what should we do at our military centers right now?
HEGSETH: Incredibly prophetic and tragic. And the reality is, these threats don't trickle down to these recruiters and the ability to arm them in the near term. It's ultimately our intelligence, our ability to lean forward within four months, that are going to identify these threats before they strikes. Clearly right now, we're being overwhelmed because of what ISIS is doing on social media. And if we're going to respond, it's going to be those first responders, meaning that marine or soldier recruiter able to respond in that moment --
KELLY: Of course.
HEGSETH: -- who is trained with a firearm to deal with the threat.
KELLY: Right.
HEGSETH: And right now they cannot.
KELLY: What is the thinking? All right. So, this is passed under President George H.W. Bush, 1992. What is the thinking? That we can't trust our military men and women to handle firearms on base or at reserve centers?
HEGSETH: It's not a matter of trust. It's a bit of paternalistic instinct that's always been in the military that, hey, this guys are being trained. There were bases. There are safe areas as a result. And I was a first line leader and a commander. You know, there's a safety umbrella over the military. They don't want these guys having their own personal firearms. I understand some of the reasons why. Those reasons are long gone, Megyn. We are at war. This threat exists. And it is direct on these facilities that have very little security. And think about National Guard armories that I was a part of in Minnesota or elsewhere. These are unguarded, wide open, with military members right inside without the ability to defend themselves and ammunition, they're sitting ducks, Megyn and ISIS knows that right now.
KELLY: You've got, one of the dead is a decorated war hero with more than one Purple Heart.
HEGSETH: Two Purple Hearts.
KELLY: This is somebody who could have defended himself.
HEGSETH: Absolutely.
KELLY: Hadn't even given the opportunity. And the ultimate bit of irony tonight, of course, they are enhancing security posture at federal facilities including the NYPD increasing security at recruiting stations.
HEGSETH: It's only temporary.
KELLY: Wish it could have happened earlier. Pete, good to see you.
HEGSETH: Absolutely. Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: In a minute, one of the leading GOP presidential candidates. Governor Scott Walker will be here to talk about Washington and the domestic terror threat and President Obama's reaction to what happened today.
Must, we'll ask Governor Walker to weigh in on that disturbing video involving a Planned Parenthood doctor right after this break.
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PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We know that what appears to be a lone gunman carried out these attacks. We've identified a name. And at this point, a full investigation is taking place. The FBI will be in the lead, working closely with local law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Back now to our breaking news on what is being called a domestic terror attack. In Chattanooga, Tennessee. That was reaction from President Obama just a couple of hours after we learned that four marines had been killed and three others, including a police officer, sailor and another marine were injured in the assault on two military facilities.
Joining me now, Wisconsin governor and newly declared presidential candidate Scott Walker. Great to see you, Governor. Thank you for being here. And so, Charles Krauthammer came out tonight listening to the President and said, he airs on the side of down-playing the threat of radical Islam describing this man as just a lone gunman. And there are other examples with respect to the underwear bomber who called an isolated extremist, and then of course Benghazi, they were after Benghazi where he refused to call it a terrorist attack. Does he have a point?
GOV. SCOTT WALKER, R-2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of, before we say anything, we need to keep in prayers the families of those four marines and certainly pray for those three who have been shot for full recovery out there. But yes, we have to acknowledge, even without knowing all the details in this instance, we need to acknowledge that we're at war, and radical Islamic terrorism is our enemy. And it's not enough just to have containment anymore. When you talk about the policies that prohibited our military personnel from being armed at an establishment like this, those are outdated. Containment was something that might have been good during the cold war, but we're facing an enemy in radical Islamic terrorism that's willing to take the fight to us. And we need to make sure that our men and women in uniform, now we have the resources to protect us and keep our country safe, we need to have the resources to keep themselves safe.
KELLY: And that of course in a moment, but on the broader scale, when you listen to Comey saying, I can't do it, I'm trying but I can't. This is eight days ago. Weeks ago. What more could we be doing, should we be doing here domestically to help the FBI, once these people get here, from unleashing hell?
WALKER: That's a response that's just absolutely unacceptable. Our primary responsibility at the federal government level shouldn't be in all these other programs and services we provide. It should be to protect our National Security interests, to keep us safe and sound here in America.
KELLY: But how? How?
WALKER: Well, I think it's a number of things. I was one of the people who spoke up and said we should have reauthorized the Patriot Act. I think we need to have a resources there. And I think this is worth re- examining. I think we need to get resources appropriately to the FBI and another levels of the federal government. To make sure that we can actually protect not just the men and women in uniform but Americans here. We are under threat, again, this is like a virus. And if we don't take it out completely, it's going to keep coming back and attacking us.
KELLY: Uh-mm. I want to shift gears, because this video from Planned Parenthood has made national news, and this so-called doctor on there celebrating how she crushes the body parts of fetuses, celebrating how she just did a 17 weeker that morning and talking about what she got in her harvest. You come under fire in the state of Wisconsin for mandating ultrasounds for women before they have abortions. Your take on how this video changes the debate.
WALKER: It really does. Years ago, when I first became governor at the state of Wisconsin, my first budget, I defunded Planned Parenthood. I took some attacks from some on the media and some on the Left. But this video is just a prime example. This is not a non-controversial entity. This is obviously a disturbing disgusting act that they're talking about. We've outlawed that in Wisconsin in the past. We need to be defunding Planned Parenthood not only state by state but I think across the country and instead put resources into the women's health issues but put them into non-controversial entities, public health entities or other things in that regard --
KELLY: Okay. But the challenges to that is -- the challenge to that is Planned Parenthood, controversial though it is, helps a lot of women in this country get birth control and prevent unwanted pregnancies which would result in abortion.
WALKER: But in our state, we took the Monday, we defunded Planned Parenthood and we put it into other entities, many cases we put it in a county public health services, so there are better, non-controversial ways to do that can still protect and provide for women's health but not to do so in a way that aligns with a group like Planned Parenthood. This video is one more example. Why defunding them is so important.
KELLY: Governor, welcome to the race. Good to see you here officially. And we'll talk more. Thank you for being here tonight.
WALKER: Look forward to seeing you in person. Thank you.
KELLY: Same here.
WALKER: And we're going to let you hear exactly what that Planned Parenthood doctor had to say in a moment. Should she be fired? Should she be fired from this organization and if she is not, what does it say about Planned Parenthood?
Plus, we'll show you how her boss is now defending this. And then we'll take a look at the argument that harvesting fetal body parts is somehow key to medical research. Really? Pediatric surgeon and presidential candidate Ben Carson joins us next on that. While Dr. Charles Krauthammer talks about the politics of this when we come back.
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UNIDENTIFIED BUYER: What price range would you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I would throw a number out. I would say it's probably anywhere from $30 to $100 depending on the facility and what's involved.
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KELLY: . just next on that, while Dr. Charles Krauthammer talks about the politics of this, when we come back.
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DR. DEBORAH NUCATOLA, PLANNED PARENTHOOD SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR MEDICAL SERVICES: What price range would you -- you know, I would throw a number out. I would say it's probably anywhere from $30 to $100, depending on the facility and what's involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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KELLY: Breaking tonight, at least five states, plus congress, all now launching investigations into Planned Parenthood, after a video tape surface showing a top doctor talking about the practice of harvesting the organs of aborted fetuses, in exchange for a fee. To this, a group called the Center for Medical Progress, which is an anti-abortion group, released a hidden camera recording of a woman identified as Deborah -- Dr. Deborah Nucatola. She's senior director of medical services for Planned Parenthood. She's seen having lunch with actors posing as buyers for a fetal tissue procurement center and they are asking about obtaining aborted fetus body parts. Today, the president of Planned Parenthood defended her organization. We'll have that for you in the moment. But first a little of the hidden camera video and we warn you, it is extremely graphic.
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BUYER: How much of a difference can that actually make, if you know kind of what's expected or what we need, versus.
NUCATOLA: It makes a huge difference. I'd say a lot of people want liver. And for that reason, providers will do this case under ultrasound guidance, so they'll know where they're putting their forceps. The kind of rate-limiting step of procedure is Calvarium -- the head -- is basically the biggest part. Most of the other stuff can come out intact.
BUYER: Right.
NUCATOLA: It's very rare to have a patient that doesn't have enough dilation to evacuate all the other parts intact.
BUYER: To bring the body cavity out intact and all that?
NUCATOLA: Exactly. So then you're just kind of cognizant of where you put your graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that, you know, we've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that. So I'm gonna crush that part. I'm going to basically crush below, I'm gonna crush above, and I'm gonna see if I can get all intact. And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to of change the presentation so that it's not vertex because when it's vertex presentation, you never have enough dilation at the beginning of the case, unless you have a real, huge amount of dilation to deliver an intact calvarium. So if you do it starting from the breech presentation, there's dilation that happens as the case goes on, and often the last step, you can evacuate an intact calvarium at the end.
AV nodes, SA, I was like wow, I didn't even know, good for them. Yesterday was the first time she said people wanted lungs.
BUYER: Uhuh.
NUCATOLA: And then, like I said, always as many intact livers as possible. People just wan.
BUYER: Yeah, liver is huge right now.
NUCATOLA: Some people want lower extremities too, which, that's simple. I mean, that's easy. I don't know what they're doing with it, I guess they want muscle.
BUYER: Yeah, a dime a dozen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Planned Parenthood's first reaction was to attack the folks who made the video. Then they argued, well, they weren't doing anything illegal. Now they are defending the work they do, but acknowledging the tape looks bad. Here's President Cecile Richards.
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CECILE RICHARDS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD PRESIDENT: Our top priority is a compassionate care that we provide. In the video, one of our staff members speaks in a way that does not reflect that compassion. This is unacceptable, and I personally apologize for the staff member's tone and statements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Here now is Fox News Contributor and Syndicated Columnist Charles Krauthammer whose author of the book Things that Matter, along with Pediatric Neurosurgeon and 2016 Presidential Candidate Dr. Ben Carson. We begin with Charles, Charles, thank you for being here. So she is sorry for that employee's tone, and that's really it. Does that get it done?
DR. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it isn't -- you get it done here if there was an illegality here. There was an exchange of money. But I think she gave away a lot more than she intended by talking about the lack of compassion. I think what the pro-abortion side does not understand is that when you deal with this on a constant basis, there is a callousness that develops about human life, the integrity of the human body, and that's been one of the arguments of the folks who are -- who object to abortion. It's not, look, we're going to have a constant argument over is this a person or not, when does personhood begin at conception or not, and that is something that we are not going to resolve, the country's divided on that. But I think we can agree that if you treat a fetus like an appendix or just a piece of tissue, crushing it here and there, so you can preserve the liver. If you treat it as something not -- let's not say as a person, but even as something deserving of respect, more than just a piece of tissue, you develop a callousness that I think is what sort of indicts them and you can see it right in the video. And it would be nice if the pro-abortion people would say, look, out of compassion for the woman and the crisis and all this, we don't want to see the return to the back room, we want to allow abortion. Well, that's an argument. But they ought to concede that this is not like an appendectomy. That there is something different about essentially ending the life of a fetus, and that is something that I think unless is conceded, gives us the direct result, the kind of callousness and lack of compassion that even the head of Planned Parenthood had to admit.
KELLY: Well that only when she was forced to because she got hit from the left too. Even some on the left said no, no. We may be pro-choice. We don't align ourselves with that woman who heads up your abortion practice and still does. This doctor, Nucatola hasn't been fired. She hasn't been demoted from her position, and yet she's on the tape, Charles, talking about how -- just today I did a 17 weeker and talking about the number of body parts she got from a 17 weeker. A 17 week baby is moving in its mother's womb. It can suck its thumb, the ultrasound video makes it very clear that it is at minimum a potential life, and yet there's no -- here's ultrasound video. This is a 17 weeker. There's no solemnity on her partners, no appreciation for the sensitivity of a very controversial procedure.
KRAUTHAMMER: Look, I'm in the -- a decade ago, I was on the president's council of bioethics and we dealt for a seven years about stem cells. And stem cell, a question was -- are you allowed to take a tiny embryo? Just a few cells, a few days old, and to destroy it in order to grow stem cells and that's help other people. There was division on this. And -- but the one thing that all sides agreed was, well, you could only -- if you gonna do it, perhaps, but not beyond two weeks. After 14 days, you do not tear apart an embryo to use as a means to serve the end of another human being, even though it could be a good end. So here we are now, we're at 17 weeks, and we're talking about this. The problem has always been the slippery slope. Once you allow yourself to go through a boundary, and to go into a situation where you have, as you say, a fetus that has a lot of characteristics like an adult or like at least a human infant.
KELLY: Like a full term infant.
KRAUTHAMMER: At that point, you really ought to ask yourself, is this worthy of no respect? Is this just a piece of tissue, or is this something you may not think as a human life or a person, meaning a person that deserve all the protections, but still it deserves something.
KELLY: Charles, thank you.
KRAUTHAMMER: My pleasure.
KELLY: Well, Planned Parenthood defenders say that harvesting this fetal organ is a key to medical research. Republican Presidential Candidate Pediatric Neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson has some thoughts on that. He's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I first saw that, I thought it was a hoax. But then I came to realize that that was actually real, that we have sunk to that level of barbarism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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NUCATOLA: AV nodes, SA, I was like wow, I didn't even know, good for them. Yesterday was the first time she said people wanted lungs.
BUYER: Uhuh.
NUCATOLA: And then, like I said, always as many intact livers as possible. People just wan.
BUYER: Yeah, liver is huge right now.
NUCATOLA: Some people want lower extremities too, which, that's simple. I mean, that's easy. I don't know what they're doing with it, I guess they want muscle.
BUYER: Yeah, a dime a dozen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: The eating and the wine drinking. It's just, oh, disturbing. And that is part of video we have been discussing with that Planned Parenthood doctor. No sooner had it been released to them. Many in the media rushed to defend the abortion provider. Arguing the harvesting of fetal organs is all for a good cause. Here's one example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX WAGNER, HOST, MSNBC: There is first that this sort of, I think shock that people hear when they hear that fetal organs are being extracted and use for research, right? As you learn more about the importance of fetal tissue in medical research, this undercover, whatever it is, seems, in some way as (inaudible). Does it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Dr. Ben Carson is a republican presidential candidate and professor emeritus of neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Medical School. Dr. Carson was the director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Hopkins for 29 years. Doctor, thank you for being here with us, and so, it's all for a good cause because those fetal organs are going for a good use, your take on that.
CARSON: Well, you know the -- it's been overpromised with their benefits of fetal research would be, and very much under delivered. And I - - if you go back over the years and look at the research that has been done and all the things that it was supposed to deliver, very little that has been done, and there's nothing that can't be done without fetal tissue. So it's a spurious argument. But, you know, what's really disturbing is the fact that we have become so callous that a lot of people don't even realize that this is shocking. To see the callousness, which we are treating human life. It's interesting that there are so many people who are concerned about snail darters and little spiders and things. And yet, the human being inside of that mother's womb, just beyond, you know, 10 weeks is much more sophisticated than many of these creatures that they're trying to preserve. And we've created a dichotomy in what should be an almost sacred relationship between a mother and that baby. That a mother is a protector of that baby, and we've distorted things to the point where people believe that if the mother can't kill the baby, then anybody who's advocating that is an enemy of women. How can we be so foolish as to believe such a thing?
KELLY: And yet, the argument on the other side is, she's aborting fetuses, OK, to use the least controversial term. She's aborting fetuses. What is worse, like is it worse that she's taking their organs and trying to do medical research? You know, I mean is the controversial -- like, why? What is it that's so controversial about this tape? We knew that she was aborting fetuses.
CARSON: Well, I think the thing that's really controversial about is that it's sort of like taking a cold fish and slapping you in the face when you're falling asleep. And you begin to recognize how far we have drifted in terms of our humanity. And you know a little developing baby is just an incredible sight to behold. You know now that we have very good ultrasound techniques, even have the ability to endoscopically look at these things little human being.
KELLY: This is a 17 weeker.
CARSON: As they're developing. As 17 weeks, you know you got a nice little nose and little fingers and hands, and the heart is beating and it can respond to environmental stimulus. I mean, how can you just believe that that's just an irrelevant mass of cells? And that's what they want you to believe, when in fact, it is a human being.
KELLY: Dr. Carson, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it tonight.
CARSON: Always a pleasure. Thank you.
KELLY: We're taking your thoughts. Facebook.com/thekellyfile. We're on Twitter @megynkelly. We'd really love to hear your thoughts on it. Lucky here from pro-choice people too, with their thoughts on it.
Up next, there's Breaking News on our top story, the terror attack in Tennessee. Plus, the verdict came in hours ago on a horrifying shooting in a Colorado movie theater. What it means and where the case goes now, next.
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KELLY: Breaking tonight, new details on our top story. Members of the U.S. military murdered here on American soil. In an attack that has being investigated as terrorism. Four marines killed, three others including a police officer wounded. The suspected shooter is dead. We now know that he was killed by police. He's been identified as Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. We are now learning that he fired at least 30 times at the first location. And just the last hour, we saw reports that his father had been under investigation for possible ties to a foreign terrorist organization, but was later cleared. We also received these questions -- these pictures. Police storming a house where Muhammad is thought to have lived, the police taking several women out in handcuffs -- one other note. We are now learning that several of the members of the group that was killed had serve in the Fallujah years ago. They go to Fallujah, they capture that city. I think they defend it. Ultimately, it's lost to ISIS. They return to America soil and lose their lives here.
Also, breaking tonight, the verdict is in on the horrific Aurora Theater shooting trial, the gunman who killed 12 people and injured 70 others at a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises, three years ago -- guilty, and all 165 counts including 24 counts of first-degree murder, that's two, counts for each his 12 victims, joining me now, the New York Trial Attorney, Fox News Legal Analyst Arthur Aidala. So they reached the right results.
ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah -- yes. They reached the right results.
KELLY: They invite (ph) the insanity defense.
AIDALA: No. You know the insanity defense rarely, very rarely works. And they -- I just want to compliment you for covering this story because you know? Unfortunately, it's gotten a little lost in the shuffle this whole case, but this happened before the Sandy Hook, all those children are killed. This happened before the Boston marathon bombing. This happened before the Charleston church bombing. This was first time a mass murder, came in to some place where you and I go and feel comfortable with our families all the time. We go to watch the movies and he wiped everyone out. The -- I mean the only issue I have fundamentally, with the language is how could anyone look in someone in the eyes and say this guy isn't insane. I mean.
KELLY: But he won't.
AIDALA: Who acts like this is insane.
KELLY: The fact anecdote (ph).
AIDALA: Correct.
KELLY: I mean the legal definition of insanity.
AIDALA: Legally speaking.
KELLY: Was not reached. So what happens now?
AIDALA: On Monday, the judge is giving him little break. On Monday, these 12 jurors -- and I really feel for them because it is never easy to sentence someone to death. They'll hear -- the prosecutors stand up and say all the reason, the aggravating reasons why he should be put to death by lethal injection. And the defense will talk about all the reasons why he should not, his age, the experts and all that. There may be a video played, of the victims' families, everyone who lost loved ones. And the people -- 70 people are alive. And then.
KELLY: It's up to the jury.
AIDALA: The jury has to be -- unanimous verdict, life without parole or the death penalty. And I believe that they can't decide if it is a hung jury, the judge sentenced them to life without parole.
KELLY: Wow. What an end.
AIDALA: Yeah. I mean, 250 witnesses, 10 weeks. It was huge.
KELLY: The prosecutor did a great job.
AIDALA: Yes.
KELLY: It was a very eloquent, very strong. Good to see you, Arthur.
AIDALA: Thanks.
KELLY: We'll be right back.
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KELLY: President Obama said the death in Chattanooga served with great honor and called their murder, heart breaking. The vice president said their families have already given a lot to this country and now this. Those families need our prayers and they have them. Thanks for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly. Here's Sean.
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