Should officials take Fourth of July ISIS threats seriously?
How the feds are stepping up security for the holiday weekend on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," July 2, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, GUEST HOST: Welcome to "Hannity." I'm Tucker Carlson, in tonight for Sean.
Americans have been warned to be extra vigilant this 4th of July weekend. The Department of Homeland Security and the FBI are warning of possible terror attacks in this country by ISIS. Sources tell FOX News that ISIS views this holiday as, quote, "a key target."
So what exactly is the federal government doing to ramp up security and keep the rest of us safe? Here with the latest details is FOX News's chief intelligence correspondent, Catherine Herridge -- Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX CORRESPONDENT: Tucker, an investigative source who tracks terrorist social media traffic tells FOX News that the chatter has ramped up significantly, and they have not seen a more severe threat environment leading up to the 4th in the last decade. That's because in a growing number of cases, it take only a matter of days for a homegrown recruit to make contact with ISIS and then go operational.
Earlier today, the State Department spokesman said the threats for the time being are not deemed credible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: No specific credible threat that has been identified. But I think it's just good common sense, when you have large gatherings...
Get out and enjoy holiday. It is an important date in our history, and I know I speak for Secretary Kerry when I say that Americans should go out and enjoy that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Separately, FOX News has learned that the common link between the most recent terror arrests, about a dozen since early June, is an ISIS operative who goes by the handle al-Britani. The same ISIS operative was in contact with the two shooters in Garland, Texas, and appeared to have foreknowledge of the plot targeting the Mohammed cartoon drawing contest.
Earlier today, though, it was a massive police presence at the Washington Navy Yard on the eve of the July 4th weekend after reports of shots being fired. That base, as you recall, is where 12 employees were gunned down in 2013 by a mentally ill military contractor, and for much of the morning, it was on lockdown. As employees took shelter, federal and law enforcement responded as if the threat was credible.
But after searching building 197, the same scene as the 2013 incident, and questioning the person who raised the alarm, police confirmed there was no active shooter and gave the all clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CATHY LANIER, WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE: We have interviewed the person. We have no concerns whatsoever. Again, I think this is an employee that did exactly what we ask employees to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Tonight, D.C. police are emphasizing that the heavy display of force here in the capital was not a reflection of the heightened threat environment.
But FOX has learned the FBI has recently shifted tactics, opting to get suspects off the street, to build a case against them while they're in custody, rather than take the risk of leaving them under surveillance -- Tucker.
CARLSON: Thanks, Catherine.
Joining me now with reaction, the author of "Warrior Diplomat," retired special forces officer and former adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney on counterterrorism, Michael Waltz, as well as former deputy assistant director of the FBI, Danny Coulson.
Welcome to you both. Danny, first off, how seriously should we take these warnings?
DANNY COULSON, FMR. DEPUTY ASST. FBI DIRECTOR: Oh, very seriously. There is the most energetic series of warnings that I've heard coming out of FBI or DHS for a long time. Even members of Congress are giving us warnings. And I think it's because of the high volume of social media traffic coming to the United States from overseas.
And I think they believe -- I know they believe that somebody's going to pick up on one of these messages to make jihad on the United States, and I think that's why they're so concerned, and rightfully so.
CARLSON: So why now? Michael, you've seen a couple of reports in the last few weeks that have shown a demonstrable rise in terror across the globe. Why?
LT. COL. MICHAEL WALTZ, AUTHOR, "WARRIOR DIPLOMAT": Well, Tucker, rather than defeating and degrading ISIS, they're growing and they're growing in capability. Just a week ago, they coordinated three attacks across three continents in France, Kuwait and Tunisia, including murdering 30 British citizens on the beach.
And I'm convinced that another attack of that type is imminent. It may not be a 9/11 because that takes a lot of coordination on the terrorists, and when they expose themselves, we can go after them. But it's going to be a lone gunman, whether it's a soft target in a 4th of July celebration or a suicide bomber in a shopping mall, and we need to get ready.
And I'm convinced we have to take more aggressive action to hit them where they're planning and plotting, rather than trying to play defense here at home.
CARLSON: Well, are we doing that, Danny? It does seem like we have a pretty passive position when it come to ISIS. They've taken over lots of Iraq. We don't seem to be doing much about it. Can we rest assured the United States government is doing all it can to protect American citizens from this threat?
COULSON: No, I don't think we can. I don't believe we're doing enough. Success breeds success, and success breeds converts. And I think that's why you're seeing so many people join the ISIS movement, because they're successful.
They've turned armies against them into retreat. They look -- you see that black flag flying on some of our military vehicles. And I think people are emboldened by that, and I think that's -- you know, my position, and I think our other's guest position, is hit them there. Disrupt them there because they're going to hit us here. And better fight them there as opposed to in Dallas, Texas.
CARLSON: Well, Michael, it seems like there's a pretty clear lesson out of all this. ISIS is thriving in places with power vacuums, where there's no central authority, no meaningful central government that can control its own borders.
And so why isn't the United States government doing all it can to help central governments in that region, rather than to undermine them? That only helps ISIS, no?
WALTZ: Well, not necessarily. I mean, look, at the end of the day, you know, Tucker, this is a war of ideas. And this administration won't even admit the nature of the enemy, that this is an Islamic extremist movement that's growing.
And you know, we are losing that war of ideas, as the other guest said, that they're -- this is, you know, a series of successes on the part of ISIS. We do need to be careful about some of these governments fracturing as we try to defeat ISIS and we need to keep it in the broader strategic picture.
But at the end of the day, you know, special operations forces, for example, conducted a raid in Syria that decapitated one of their key leaders, realized a treasure trove of information, but that's -- those kind of raids are only happening once in a while, and...
CARLSON: But wait a second!
WALTZ: ... they need to be happening every single night.
CARLSON: Hold on. With respect, when Assad controlled the entire country of Syria, there was no ISIS. When Gadhafi was in control of Libya, same thing. Sorry to say it, when Saddam controlled Iraq, same thing. I mean, it does seem like groups like this metastasize when no one's in control.
WALTZ: Well, right, but they also metastasize when there's an utter lack of American leadership, and particularly in leading a moderate Arab coalition, which exists but is begging for America to take the lead, rather than to lead from the rear.
CARLSON: So what exactly, Danny, can we do? You're the average person. You're planning on enjoying the 4th of July, as you always have, maybe in a group setting with thousands of other people. Should you think twice before you do that?
COULSON: Well, I wouldn't. I would go. If I want to go celebrate the 4th of July, I'm going to do it. But I'm going to be very vigilant. I'm going to be aware for exits (ph) (INAUDIBLE) look around, somebody doesn't look right, somebody's walking around in a hooded sweatshirt in the middle of July, that's a key.
If you see something, say something. I know that sounds very trite, but we've seen with regard to the shooting in South Carolina, that individual was captured because of a concerned citizen. And most of the information the FBI gets to thwart these things, or at lot of it, at least, comes from people who see something and say something. And I can't say that enough. It doesn't sound important, but it's probably the most important thing we can do...
CARLSON: Right.
COULSON: ... and be prepared to defend ourself.
CARLSON: That makes sense. So Michael, am I misreading this, or it sounds like we're making at least common cause with Iran in our fight against ISIS in Iraq. Is that happening, or am I misreading accounts?
WALTZ: No, I don't think you're misreading it. I think this administration wants a nuclear deal so badly that everything, including its own red lines against Syria and the Assad regime, has fallen into second, third or fourth place.
And Iran is taking -- Iran knows it and is taking that position and running with it, whether it's pushing in Syria, it's pushing in Iraq, it's pushing in Yemen, it's starting to push in Afghanistan. And so, you know, our negotiating position has become so weak and Iran realizes an opportunity, that they're running as hard as they can with it.
CARLSON: Yes, it sounds like Iraq is now controlled by Iran and ISIS. That seems like a bad combination to me!
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: So Danny, the FBI right now is obviously aware of this threat, and they're working to prevent attacks. But it's such a massive country, 320 million people in the country. How -- what exactly are they doing, to the extent you can divulge that, to protect Americans?
COULSON: Well, a lot of what they do involves cooperation with local police because the first line of defense in a terrorist attack is the local police department, the local security agencies. And putting them on notice, using the Joint Terrorism Task Forces to pass on intel, facial recognition cameras at major events -- they're hugely important.
There's a lot they do, and basically, they do it as a partnership. The FBI doesn't do this by itself. It's these partnerships that are very effective, and that's going to be what saves us if there's saving to be done.
CARLSON: Well, how frustrated is the FBI and other law enforcement by the fact that the federal government continues to resettle refugees from countries where Islamic extremism is rife, is the norm, into the United States? And so you're seeing sympathy for ISIS in these immigrant communities, and law enforcement has to deal with it. Does that upset them at all?
COULSON: Well, I think it does. I think that immigration is very important to the success of our country. But who we allow to come in here -- you've seen some European countries cut off immigration because they're concerned that the people that came to their countries have not been assimilated but put -- put together little small enclaves, a Balkanization of their countries.
And I think that's a very strong concern, and it's very difficult to develop informants in those groups, and I think we're all concerned about that. I'm sure the FBI agents are likewise.
CARLSON: I bet they are. Danny Coulson, Michael Waltz, thanks for joining us both...
(CROSSTALK)
COULSON: Enjoyed it, Tucker. Thanks.
CARLSON: Coming up -- Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City is calling on the city to review its business relationship with Donald Trump in the wake of Trump's remarks about Mexican immigrants and the threat they may pose. We've got more on that.
Plus, two more people were attacked by sharks yesterday off the East Coast. There appears to be a surge in shark attacks. Why? What can you do to prevent getting eaten? Our expert's here to explain. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." We're glad to have you.
Well, the fallout tonight continues over Donald Trump's comments about Mexican immigrants. Now the mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio, has announced that the city will review all of its contracts with Mr. Trump, and there are many.
The official statement from the mayor reads this way, in part. Quote, "We're reviewing Trump contracts with the city. Donald Trump's remarks were disgusting and offensive, and this hateful language has no place in our city," blah, blah, blah.
But the 2016 GOP candidate refuses to back down, of course. Here's what he said last night on CNN. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Why did you have to say they were rapists?
DONALD TRUMP (R-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Oh, well, if you look at the statistics of people -- I didn't say about Mexicans. I say the illegal immigrants. You look at the statistics on rape, on crime, on everything coming in illegally into this country, they're mind-boggling!
(INAUDIBLE) women being raped. Well, who's doing the raping? Who's doing the raping? I mean, how can you say such a thing? So that's -- look, the problem is, you have to stop illegal immigration coming across the border. You have to create a strong border, Don. If you don't, we don't have a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: To which America just freaked out! Joining me now with reaction, senior editor of National Review, the great Jonah Goldberg, and Democratic strategist Jessica Tarlov. Welcome to you both.
JESSICA TARLOV, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.
JONAH GOLDBERG, NATIONAL REVIEW: Good to be here.
CARLSON: So Jonah, I know you're not generally a big Trump defender, but will you at least concede it is nice to hear from the last unafraid man in America, who can say exactly what he really thinks, and unlike the rest of us, isn't cowering under the threat of losing his job because he's telling the truth?
GOLDBERG: Yes, well, I mean, I would (INAUDIBLE) debate about how much of what he said is actually the truth in terms of his statistics and all that. I think he said -- what he said was incredibly inartful and poorly phrased.
But he gets at something very real, which is the incredible frustration people have with a lawless border, with an administration and an elite in this country that really looks down its nose at anybody who thinks that we have problems with illegal immigration. And he's tapping into some very real frustration, and I can see why people find it enjoyable.
My own problem is, is that I still think that he is not a serious candidate. I think that he is showing right now exactly the down side of what a Donald Trump presidency would be, which is that he basically makes up stuff as he goes.
But I think he can have both these things be true at the same time, that he's talking about something authentic that is bothering people, but he's a bad messenger of it.
CARLSON: So Jessica, I'm so struck by the reaction. People just freaked out!
TARLOV: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
TARLOV: ... were they?
CARLSON: Well, I don't know. A hurt dog barks. I mean, when someone says something true that nobody wants to hear, people take great offense. And the truth is, as you well know, that there is an illegal problem.
TARLOV: Absolutely!
CARLSON: The administration doesn't enforce it, period. They say they're not going to. And there are actually a lot of crimes committed by illegal aliens. There are also a lot of good things done by them, but there are a lot of crimes, and you're not allowed to say so or else you're a bigot!
TARLOV: I think you are allowed to say so.
CARLSON: Really? Where?
TARLOV: I say so all the time -- I say it right here on FOX News. I mean, we have an illegal immigration problem. We have a general immigration problem, as well. We need a secure border. We also need comprehensive immigration reform.
I mean, what he is saying is true, but he started out by making incredibly derogatory comments about an entire nation and making up statistics. The statistics don't back him up at all.
CARLSON: Well, can I ask you a question? Why is it he's been denounced as a racist, which is basically a blanket term for someone who says something you don't like? Why is it racist to criticize another country? I don't understand. That doesn't even make sense to me. You can't criticize another country without being a bigot? I mean, if you're an American...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... have to treat all countries the same? I don't get it.
TARLOV: Yes, I mean, when he talked -- he talked about China, right, and he said that they're currency manipulators.
CARLSON: Yes.
TARLOV: Right? I mean, no one...
CARLSON: Demonstrably true.
TARLOV: Demonstrably true. But it's not demonstrably true that all Mexicans who come to America are rapists and criminals. There's a difference...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... all rapists and crooks.
TARLOV: ... "I'm sure some are good people."
CARLSON: Yes, but what he said was, Do you really think Mexico is sending us their best? And the answer, of course, is no. I mean, don't we have a right to be sort of annoyed by that? And the answer, of course, is yes.
TARLOV: But you don't...
CARLSON: So why are people freaking out about that?
TARLOV: Why are we freaking out about it? Because a person is saying he wants to be the president of the United States of America. We want to send him to summits with other world leaders? It's embarrassing.
CARLSON: Oh, well, probably...
TARLOV: This is a nation built on immigration. New York City especially, melting pot, Ellis Island, it's all right here. De Blasio was right on for saying something about that.
CARLSON: So -- OK, so, Jonah?
GOLDBERG: Well -- well...
CARLSON: Please continue.
GOLDBERG: I was just going to say, look, I mean, de Blasio -- it doesn't shock me that he's behaving this way. He governs New York as if he wants to turn it into a banana republic, and this is banana republic behavior. You dislike what somebody says, and you're going to revisit negotiated contracts?
CARLSON: Exactly! Exactly!
GOLDBERG: I'm not a big fan of Donald Trump, as we've stipulated, but what de Blasio is doing is outrageous and ridiculous, and it's part of this general mob bullying atmosphere we get from the left these days that you can't just say something that people disagree with, you must be punished and be pelted from the public stage and be driven to the poorhouse. And I think it's outrageous, what de Blasio is doing.
CARLSON: Well, also -- I mean, I'm not sending money to Donald Trump for his presidential campaign. But honestly, who's a more ludicrous figure, Bill de Blasio or Donald Trump?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: I'm serious!
TARLOV: Come on, guys!
CARLSON: Who would you rather manage your 401(k)? Whose house would you send your kids to if you had to go on vacation unexpectedly? I mean, seriously.
So I want to ask you, speaking of ludicrous figures, Bernie Sanders, long-time socialist governor (sic) and then senator of Vermont is actually doing surprisingly well, kind of amazingly. Had a massive turnout the other day.
TARLOV: Ten thousand.
CARLSON: Ten thousand in Madison, Wisconsin, pretty liberal town, but still. Is Hillary Clinton right to be unconcerned about this?
TARLOV: I don't think she is unconcerned.
CARLSON: You don't.
TARLOV: I just don't think you've seen Hillary sweat. I mean, she's great at standing up there, delivering her points. But I'm sure that the campaign is afraid. I mean, he's only 8 behind now in New Hampshire. I think Iowa, it was a 52-25 in the latest poll, which is big gains for Bernie Sanders. I mean, she's still ahead nationally by over 50 points.
I don't think he's going to win the nomination. But you know, when you think about the fact that he's already pushed her dramatically to the left, right? She's -- I mean, she sounds more liberal than he does now on some points and...
CARLSON: Oh, she's like Leon Trotsky, at this point! She's going to topple the 1 percent?
TARLOV: That's her new nickname...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So but, I mean, Jonah, isn't she (sic), in effect, a political polio shot, though, that inoculates her against accusations that she's too all right left? So she can point to Bernie Sanders and say, You think I'm crazy? Look at this guy. I mean, he's not a real threat. They can buy him off with a duffel bag full of weed, but they haven't.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: I think he helps them in the end. Don't you?
GOLDBERG: I'm not so sure about that, and I'm also not sure that I agree that Bernie Sanders has pushed her to the left. You know, The New York Times had a big piece about this. I've been writing about this for a very long time.
Hillary Clinton has this theory that she can put together the Obama coalition around her. She is -- the entire strategy is to build a base campaign. And that means pandering to the leftist base of the party, trying to get these low-information and low-motivation voters to turn out in big numbers, which means you have to be a crazy populist.
The problem is, she's a terrible candidate! She's the lady who come up to you and says there's no eating in the library!
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG: You know, and so, the thing is, Bernie Sanders is a compelling guy! He's a funny -- he's like -- he's a left-wing Ron Paul. People like looking at him. They like listening to him. They can see his passion is real and not manufactured...
CARLSON: Well, exactly!
GOLDBERG: ... and that's the real problem for Hillary Clinton is she's a lousy candidate!
CARLSON: Because she's a phony! And Bernie Sanders, whatever you think of him, is not a phony. I mean, he's totally...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's not a compliment, by the way, but it's true.
TARLOV: Bernie Sanders is totally authentic. But I want to go back to what Jonah just said about him not pushing her to the left. He absolutely has. I mean, once he started gaining even an ounce of traction -- you know, his first weekend, where he had all the little donations -- now he has -- he raised $15 million, I think, since April 30th from smaller donations than Obama did.
I mean, these -- these are facts that Hillary Clinton has considered and has realigned her policy stances to be able to compete with him. So I think he has pushed her.
CARLSON: Interesting. Great to see you...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm sorry, we're totally...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Please (INAUDIBLE)
GOLDBERG: I was going to say, I think the causation -- she planned all along to be left-wing. Maybe Bernie Sanders is expediting and accelerating...
TARLOV: OK.
GOLDBERG: ... the plan to be left-wing, but that's where she's coming from.
CARLSON: Yes. We'll see how it turns out. Bernie Sanders, love that guy. Thank you, Jonah.
Coming up, two more people attacked by sharks yesterday off the coast of North Carolina, leaving many beach goers afraid to swim in the ocean. Should they be? Next, our experts will explain what's behind the recent spike in shark attacks.
Then dozens of teens destroyed a Walmart in Georgia last weekend. The reason, they wanted to see how much damage they could do. I'll bet you didn't read about that in The New York Times! What does it mean for the future of our country? Our panel weighs in.
And later, the one and only Ann Coulter is here. You would be crazy to turn the channel, so don't.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." The surge in shark attacks on the East Coast continues, and it's real. Two more took place just yesterday. In North Carolina's Outer Banks, a 68-year-old man was bitten while swimming in waist-deep water. He made it back to shore. He's recovering now from his injuries. He's going to be OK, but scary anyway. That state has seen a total of seven attacks since Memorial Day.
Meanwhile, north -- south -- in South Carolina, a 12-year-old boy was bitten on his leg and suffered non-life-threatening injuries. What is going on?
Joining me now with reaction is Outer Banks Visitors' Bureau executive director Lee Nettles. Lee, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. So...
LEE NETTLES, OUTER BANKS VISITORS' BUREAU: Thank you for having me, Tucker.
CARLSON: This does sound real. It doesn't -- it's not just media hype. There are shark attacks taking place. Why -- and more than in memory. Why?
NETTLES: It's extremely unusual. In a state that is used to seeing only one or two attacks a year, it's just unprecedented. We think that it has to do with the higher water temperatures, the abundance of bait fish close to the shore, sea turtles. So you know, sharks live in the ocean and they have to eat, so they're coming in.
CARLSON: Yes, but they don't typically eat people, or at least that's what we've been assured by the experts. Sharks don't want to eat you. As long as you don't dress like a seal, you're OK, et cetera, et cetera. Should we rethink that? Maybe they do want to eat us.
NETTLES: No, the shark attacks by and large are accidental. Sharks are just going after other food supplies. And it's important to remember that the three incidents that we've had on the Outer Banks are over a 40- mile area. And the attacks that have happened along the North Carolina shore are over 300 miles.
Meanwhile, the Outer Banks alone has -- estimates are 5 million visitors annually. So it's an extremely rare incident. We, of course, want our visitors to be safe. We want folks to be mindful and to take precautions and to be vigilant and beware of your surroundings.
And you know, there are some simple things that you can do. Avoid swimming in the early morning, late evening, when sharks typically feed. Don't wear jewelry into the water. Swim in groups. And you know, just in particular, be aware of your surroundings.
CARLSON: Yes. Don't thrash around like a wounded sea lion. Lee, thank a lot for joining us. We appreciate it.
NETTLES: Thank you.
CARLSON: Joining us now, "Shark Week" cinematographer Joe Romeiro and shark scientist at the Moat (ph) Marine Laboratory Dr. Bob Hueter. Thanks, both, for joining us.
So Bob, we're trying to get a handle on what we can do as people who swim in the ocean to not get attacked by sharks. What's your advice?
BOB HUETER, SHARK SCIENTIST: Well, actually, Mr. Nettles just summed it up very well. The only thing I would add to his list is don't swim where people are fishing.
CARLSON: Yes.
HUETER: I've noticed in a number of -- in these cases in the Carolinas, these recent cases, in most of those cases, there's a fishing pier not far from where these people have been bitten. And no doubt, there are people that are also fishing off the beach.
So we don't want to really mix fishing, which by definition tries to draw large fish into the fisherman's hook -- We don't want to mix fishing with swimming. So don't swim near where people are putting bait in the water that could attract sharks.
CARLSON: Yes, don't drive into the chum slick. That seems like good advice. Joe, what kind of sharks are these? All of us are fixated on great whites because of the movie "Jaws." Is that the kind of shark we should fear?
JOE ROMEIRO, "SHARK WEEK" CINEMATOGRAPHER: No, not in North or South Carolina. The white sharks have arrived really early up here in the north, but these sharks down there are tropical sharks, I believe about seven to eight feet in length, possibly a bull shark, a sandbar, possibly a lemon shark, from looking at the bites.
But I mean, they were definitely releases. So they were investigating what their subjects were, probably in bad visibility, and released right after biting.
CARLSON: Right. In bad visibility -- everyone wants to make excuses for sharks, though? Why is that? Every time I talk to a shark expert (INAUDIBLE) He didn't mean to do it. Maybe some of them did mean to do it. Maybe some of them have gone rogue. Has that ever occurred?
ROMEIRO: Well, we're very fascinated with sharks. Every time something happens with sharks, it ends up in the news. We got to remember that there's 10 drowning deaths a day worldwide. And there's many things out there that could get you before a shark does.
It seems to be very unfair at such low statistics to be able to point out this animal and somehow kind of demonize it.
CARLSON: Yes. I'm kind of comfortable demonizing it. Got to be honest. Bob, if you are grabbed by a shark, what should you do, punch him in the nose? Does that work?
HUETER: Yes, you could try doing that. You could try hitting it in the nose, hitting it in the eyes or around the gills. You know, this is not something that you need to write down and remember these rules because if it happens, you're just going to react naturally.
But you know, honestly, this is a 1-in-20 million chance that something like this would ever happen to you. So I would not worry too much about that and be more vigilant about your surroundings, listen to the local authorities, get out of the water if sharks are in the area, and stay safe.
CARLSON: Is being on a boogie board or a surfboard -- does that increase your risk?
HUETER: Well, it depends on where you are. If you're surfing in an area where a group of black tipped sharks are feeding aggressively in the surf, then they can see your hand or your foot and possibly confuse it with what they're really looking for, which is a small fish.
So -- and I want to say that to go to your question, why do we always defend sharks? It's because people think of "Jaws." They have this image of these huge sharks eating people, and that's not what we're talking about. And really, in most of these cases I prefer to call these bites and not attacks.
CARLSON: OK, so that's an interesting point, Joe. When sharks do attack, they typically just take a bite and pull back? Do they keep chewing? Or describe the mechanics of a shark attack.
ROMEIRO: Well, we're really not on the sharks' food chain. And right now they're corralling a lot of fish species near shore and sea turtles. So that's the way to put them up against the wall. But right at that time in bad visibility people are walking out into the water. So the sharks are looking for their bait and they just bump into something, and then through their competitive nature, they'll bite. But all of these have been releases. And it looked like a seven to eight-foot kind of range. But it seems to be, it is all mistaken identity.
CARLSON: Their so sharks practice catch and release fishing, too, it sounds like.
ROMEIRO: Yes, I guess.
CARLSON: Interesting. All right, Joe, Bob, it's great to talk to both of you. Appreciate your coming on tonight.
ROMEIRO: Thank you so much.
CARLSON: Thanks very much. Good luck swimming.
HUETER: My pleasure.
CARLSON: Coming up, dozens of teens in Georgia ransack a Walmart, and according to reports they did it because they want to, quote, "see how much damage they can cause." It turned out to be a lot of damage. Eric Guster, Stacey Dash, and Tom Shillue join us to react next.
And then later, Sean sits down with the great Ann Coulter to talk about the Confederate flag controversy and what it means, that and much more as the program continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." A group of about 50 teenagers ransacked a Walmart this past weekend in Macon, Georgia. They flooded into the storm about 2:00 a.m. Sunday morning and they started running through throwing merchandise on the floor. Reports indicate the group caused an estimated $2,000 in damage. The 17-year-old alleged leader of the group was caught. And after he got caught, he returned to the store to look for his cell phone, which he apparently dropped during the incident. By the way, the group also turned an elderly disabled man out of his electric wheelchair during the rampage.
Joining me now with reaction, the host of "Red Eye," Tom Shillue, congratulations, Tom, criminal defense attorney Eric Guster, and FOX News contributor Stacey Dash. Welcome to all three of you. Stacey, I noticed I didn't read this story on the front page of the "New York Times." It's a politically inconvenient story but a very troubling story. What does it say about America? Why does this happen, and it does happen. Why, why?
STACEY DASH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: We have no moral compass. We have no responsibility with parents, no accountability, and this is I think a result of fatherlessness and generational poverty, I think. You know, I can't be sure of all these kids come from --
CARLSON: But there is something deeply wrong.
DASH: There's something deeply wrong. It's something that's generational. It is not just young kids. It is 50 of them, 50 of them saying how much can we destroy?
CARLSON: Which is very different, isn't it, Eric, from 50 poor people running into a store to get food because they're hungry? This is purely destructive. What gives rise to this? And this is not an isolated incident. This happens a lot.
ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is a group of bad kids. If they wanted to destroy anything, they should go to Sallie Mae and destroy the computers from our friends who have student loans.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: Not a bad idea.
GUSTER: But it goes back to the home training as we say. When you don't have home training and you don't have a structured family where you have discipline, this is what it rises to. This is not one or two kids. This is a bunch of children. This is like two classrooms of children in high school terms going to a store to destroy something. And that gives no regard to property. It gives disregard to authority. And it's shameful that we see something like this, and these kids are doing this kind of --
CARLSON: Exactly, it's chaotic and violent and therefore it's kind of a threat to the idea of civilization. What bothers me, Tom, is that you see these incidents in the news which become metaphors, and the left uses them to push their political agenda. This stuff always gets ignored because it always points back to the destruction of the family and only evangelicals and crazy religious people care about that. But there are real implications. When the family falls apart, like everything falls apart.
TOM SHILLUE, FOX NEWS HOST, "RED EYE": We can't take advantage of the news items way the left can.
CARLSON: It's true.
SHILLUE: But I think obviously there were 50 kids, right. How many bad apples? You only need a couple of them. Obviously that wizard who left his phone there, he was one of the big jerks, right. But I think a lot of these kids aren't bad kids. They might not come from bad families. It's crowds. I don't like crowds. Ever since the 80s, remember The Who concert where people got trampled? That was like the "Jaws" of the 80s for me. I was afraid to go to concerts after that because of the big crowds.
But it's true. A crowd can turn a good kid into a bad kid. I've seen it during hurricanes. That's why police don't like crowds. Everyone says the police come out whenever there's a demonstration. They should break up these demonstrations because the crowd will make good people bad people.
CARLSON: I totally agree with that.
DASH: And you have to make sure your children do not give into peer pressure.
CARLSON: And it is pretty hard.
GUSTER: And this was a planned event. It was a planned event. It wasn't like they were at a park and all of a sudden let's go do this right next door. This was a planned event where they stormed the store at the same time. So it's easy for us to say one or two kids are bad apples. But when you know that you're doing something criminal, that's a --
CARLSON: And it is all choreographed by text.
When want to get to this topic. For your Fourth of July weekend the Fox News Channel has launched a hash-tag "Proud Americans," the campaign that encourages you, our viewers, to share your pride in your country. You can do it on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Many of us will be celebrating our independence this weekend, Fourth of July. We have a new poll, online poll, that shows that 35 percent of your fellow Americans say they would consider leaving this country in order to live somewhere else. If you ask younger people, millennials, that number jumps to 55 percent. Remember this age group voted overwhelmingly for President Obama in 08 and in 2012. Patriotism, and not wearing a flag, ostentatious, but deep patriotism, love of country, wanting to live here, clearly declined dramatically over the past seven years.
DASH: And it's frowned upon.
CARLSON: What is that?
DASH: I don't know.
CARLSON: Isn't that the ultimate measure of a president's success if under his administration you like living here more, that's good. And if you like living here less, what's a clearer sign that you failed?
DASH: It's an exact representation of the leader of the country. This shows that he is not leading well, that we are in a bad position, because the United States of America is the best nation in the world. We have the best freedoms, the most opportunities. And what infuriates me are the men and women who risk their lives to keep those freedoms for us, what a spit in the face this is for them. I mean, it's unacceptable.
CARLSON: That's for sure, and sad. Eric, what do you think this says?
GUSTER: Well, I don't know what it says overall, but I love being here. I love the United States. I love the land of opportunity that we have despite any other types of issues that we are do, we are going through. But we have to have our patriotism where we love our country and we want to better our country. And when people want to leave, I say get a one-way ticket and go, because I want people here who want to help us progress, who want to help us come together as a nation and keep building our nation up.
CARLSON: So Tom, Eric takes the Darwinian view, if you want to leave, good riddance.
SHILLUE: Well, the thing is, what's the difference now? The world is becoming all the same. Remember when your friends in college, they would go to Europe and they'd come back and say it's amazing. Everyone has health care. It's so wonderful over there. And they take vacations half the year. We could say America is different. We work harder here. We don't need the long vacations. We cover our own health care. But now everything is becoming the same. So what's the difference if you go live in Europe when you're creating a little Europe here?
CARLSON: They've got better cheese. That's a good point. It's great to see you all. It's still depressing as heck. Thank you all very much.
Coming up, a new poll reveals the majority of Americans don't view the Confederate flag as a racist symbol. Sean recently sat down with Ann Coulter to talk about that question, the Confederate flag debate and whether it's significant or not. It's a great interview. Stay with us. that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." Corporate backlash against the Confederate flag continues. Just yesterday TV Land decided to pull reruns of the iconic show "The Dukes of Hazard," this in the wake of the Charleston, South Carolina church shooting.
The majority of Americans, meanwhile, seem to disagree with these anti-Confederate flags sentiments. According to a CNN/ORC poll, 57 percent of American say they see the flag as a symbol of southern pride rather than as an emblem of racism. Recently Sean sat down with Ann Coulter, the author of "Adios, America," to talk about liberal hypocrisy when it comes to this debate. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And joining us now in studio, a rare appearance, we got her, Ann Coulter. Congratulations, another New York Times bestseller, "Adios, America, The Left's Plan to Turn America into a Third World Hell Hole." You always have a different take. So this whole issue comes up about the Confederate flag. And I see a big headline, "Ann Coulter says" --
(LAUGHTER)
ANN COULTER, AUTHOR, "ADIOS, AMERICA": I've written quite a bit about it. For one thing, to respond to this shooting, this horrible, sickening shooting in Charleston by going after the Confederate flag -- the guy was a nut, point one. Point two, just as a general matter, you keep hearing we're a country of marauding white racists gunning down black people. No, that's not what the crime statistics suggest. It is a horrible, sickening thing, and it is especially sick what happened in Charleston because those poor lovely victims were chosen because of their race. But it's worth saying at the same time, luckily those sorts of crimes are extremely rare and stop lying to us about it, media.
HANNITY: This is an evil, sick, racist, twisted individual that commits this crime. Here's what bothers me. If Nikki Haley wants to get rid of the Democratic flag that the Democrats put up.
COULTER: Here I disagree.
HANNITY: She wants to -- all right, that's fine. If people want to make this about gun control, this kid broke at least six laws --
COULTER: Right, right.
HANNITY: OK, here's the problem. If we want to stop this from happening, all the information about what a racist lunatic with violent tendency that this kid had was on the Internet before he went and shot these people. We don't have law enforcement looking for these people. That's a problem. They are telegraphing --
COULTER: Even if they find them there's nothing they can do because of the deinstitutionalization movement. They all have the same haircut, they have a faraway stare, they are all males in their 20s, their loners, they have a manifesto, starting with the Virginia Tech shooter going right up to Loughner and James Holmes and the one in Santa Barbara last summer. I mean, all of the markers are exactly the same, so, yes, of course it has nothing to do with gun control. It has nothing to do with the Confederate flag. If we're banning symbols that remind us of slavery, we ought to be banning the Democratic Party which fought for slavery.
HANNITY: I had a Hannity history lesson last week which you missed.
COULTER: Well, it's all in my book. Republicans have a very proud history. We're the ones who had to send the radical Republicans down to force Democrats to stop discriminating against blacks. The Ku Klux Klan was originally formed to fight Republicans and then it branched out. The Confederate flag, Mississippi voted on the Confederate flag. Also, 33 percent of black people in Mississippi in 2000 voted to keep the Confederate flag. It has nothing to do with supporting slavery. This is some new modern nonsense.
HANNITY: In South Carolina Republican Governor Beasley wanted to get rid of the Confederate flag that Fritz Hollings put up in 1961. And guess what? He was voted out of office the next time. The NAACP supported the flag staying there at the time in 1996.
COULTER: This is a modern idea. What the Confederate flag stands for is not slavery. In fact the Democratic Party and the American flag stand more for slavery than the Confederate flag did. The flag we're talking about is the battle flag. It didn't fly over any Confederate building. It was taken into battle. And anyone who is at all familiar with military history will notice that the south is rather overrepresented in the heroic annals of American military history. It's about the proud warrior culture of the south both blacks and whites.
I'd also say about our Civil War, it was an unbelievable way to end the civil war. Other countries have had civil wars, but the deal made was, and, I mean, they were fighting to keep these people in the country. What are you going to do? Kick them out now to punish them for trying to secede? Usually civil wars don't end so well. You have guerrilla warriors and they'll still be fighting. It goes on and on and on. The two sides never come together. Here it did come together because the deal made was the south gives up and the north honors their brave and tremendous fighting. As I've said before, man for man, the Confederate army was the best military force to ever take the field.
When President Lincoln found out that the south had surrendered, he went out on the White House and played "Dixie." Are we supposed to get rid of "Dixie"? And that is what brought the two sides together. It is part of our history. And I have said and I will say again, I'm particularly appalled having just written this book about immigration, with immigrants coming here and not understanding America's history coming down the gang plank, I know just what this country needs. How about wait third or fourth generations to start bossing us around. Bobby Jindal doesn't complain about the Confederate flag.
HANNITY: I just want to ask one question. You are not supporting anybody for president that is not going to pledge to build a fence immediately.
COULTER: And the anchor babies. I think we really need a legal immigration moratorium. As I've said to you before, Republicans are too committed to this idea that it's only illegal immigration. No, legal immigration.
HANNITY: Are you going on a book tour anymore?
COULTER: Yes. It only came out a few weeks ago. And thank you, it's only because of you that I debuted at number two.
HANNITY: Now that you rejected your last boyfriend, so when people go to your book events, that means you're single, right?
COULTER: As I just told Bobby Jindal I've been married six years and you won't know about it. I tell you nothing.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: All right, congrats on the book, Ann Coulter.
COULTER: Thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARLSON: Coming up next, more "Hannity" right after the break, so stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Ah, the music of the islands. Welcome back to "Hannity." Before we go, a quick programming note. Be sure to tune in tomorrow night, that's 10:00 p.m. eastern. Sean is going to sit down with 2016 Republican presidential candidate Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal for the entire hour. Governor Jindal will explain why he's running for presidential, how he plans to turn the country around if he's elected. Again, that is tomorrow night, 10:00 p.m. eastern. Don't miss it.
That is all the time we have left tonight. Thanks a lot for being with us. Have a great night and a great Fourth of July.
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