THE FIVE

Tensions running high as curfew looms in Baltimore

National Guard, police working to keep city from spiraling into chaos

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 28, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Kimberly Guilfoyle and it's a little after 5:00 p.m. in Baltimore where National Guard troops and police are working together to keep the city from spiraling into another night of chaos. At least 20 officers injured, so far, one in critical condition. A week-long curfew of 10:00 p.m. goes into effect for residents tonight. President Obama delivered his first remarks on the riots today. We're going to play them for you, ahead. But first, Team Fox coverage with the very latest in Baltimore, Leland Vittert, Geraldo Rivera and Rick Leventhal, let's begin with Leland. Leland?

LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS: Hi. Good afternoon, from Baltimore. Right now on the street, there are a huge number of people that has just recently gathered. This group has marched all the way down from a park nearby and there's a much larger group that we've seen all day in this march. The protesters are chanting, "black lives matter" and they are very upset as you can imagine over to death of Freddie Gray. They say, but at the very same time, you have this police line right here that we've been walk over towards and it certainly, this is what we have been worried about all day is the confrontation between the protesters in the street and this very large police line at this hour. The police, it seems as though, perhaps that they have a new sheriff in town or at least taking orders from a new sheriff or new orders from the sheriff in the sense that they are a lot more (inaudible) it appears if they are gonna tolerate a lot less of the kind of violence and looting and those sorts of things that we saw yesterday. Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: All right. Thank you, Leland. Eric, do you have a question?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Leland, it looks like the crowds are substantially larger than they were, last time we're here 24 hours ago.

VITTERT: Well, it's certainly very different than what we heard 24 hours ago in terms of the way, that if we were having rocks, cinder blocks, bottles, all those things tried to thrown at these police officers, 24 hours ago, not very far from where I'm standing right now. On the other hand, things have certainly changed overnight. We had all of those lootings and those kinds of things. We're not seeing that right now. There was a little bit of looting today, some of these guys that I'm talking right now, or out here yesterday. You've been out here for a long time, right Terrence (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it is --

VITTERT: This is Terrence (ph) right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

VITTERT: Tell me the difference between yesterday and today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daylight. That's about it. Because the tension is still here and the tension is going to be here. Over the (inaudible), when (inaudible) we still need our leaders in our community, to help solve the problem.

VITTERT: And you think that what's happened over the past couple of days, you can help solve that problem?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not (inaudible) for. But I was trying to get there, because there's a lot of people out here to come, they're coming together and try to do this the correct way. And you have people just had enough and this is their only way of expressing their anger and frustration. What the directness does more important?

VITTERT: We're standing no more than about 30 feet from the police officers here in riot shields. Do you worry what is going to happen tonight? Remember last night, we saw that looting and police officers didn't do much. But today, it seems they're maybe a little bit more ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's what we are trying to avoid. We are trying to avoid that. We don't want them to get hurt and we don't want any of our people to get hurt, and this is all about people, this is not about color or any of that things. This is about human lives. It's just that simple. African-American human life matters, a black life matter, a white life matter, Chinese, Mexican for them -- they mean lives. Their lives matter.

VITTERT: And you need -- you could have said -- you've been out here since yesterday, you know this community, who lives here for so long. Do you get a sense that things are gonna be different today? Obviously, kids weren't in school today. It's warmer. Do you think that things will gonna calm down the night or we're gonna see that same kind of violence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, because this is not a city of lawlessness. And I don't want nobody to get -- get the wrong picture painted. What you have are angry people who don't know how to get all that any sort of life (ph), but This is not a city of lawlessness. I mean, just don't go around the busy police (ph) and help something out. Some people just don't know how to tackle (ph) and to deal with the image (ph) the right way.

VITTER: All right. Terrance --

(CROSSTALK)

VITTERT: Terrence, thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well --

VITTERT: I'm sending back to you guys. You can see the --

GUILFOYLE: A little bit on the ground there.

VITTERT: The point, they breaking (ph) the violence comes.

GUILFOYLE: Joining us now, Geraldo, host of Geraldo Rivera Reports. Geraldo, welcome to the program and tell us what is going on, on the scene?

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: You know Kimberly, to me, the big hero here in Baltimore is that mom yesterday who smacked her teenage son up the side of the head, got that the mask off his face and kicked his butt until he left the protesters, the rioters, the looters and got his -- got his teenage fanny home. There needs to be responsibility here. This is a city basically, Kimberly, that is under Martial Law. You have federal authorities here, you have state authorities, you have officers from as far away as New Jersey, you have more officers on the street clearly, than demonstrators here, this is a tense city worried about what is going to happen tonight, the president, as you alluded to, has spoken. To me, the president buried the lead. Yes, there's a tragedy that happened here with this 25-year-old man Freddie Gray dying, another unarmed black man dying in police custody. But the headline today has to be, how these young people trashed their own city, how they destroyed these local shopkeepers' livings, how many dwellings were also consumed by flames, many vehicles -- that mom, that mom to me, said it all. She said we have to take care of our own family. We have to get our own children off the streets. We have to take responsibility. That's what the city needs, that's what we need tonight. I spoke with the former head of the New Black Panther Party, now he's head of a -- a black lawyer's group that will be -- that will be monitoring the events tonight and representing some of the protestors, his name is Malik Shabazz and I believe you have some tape of Malik.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALIK SHABAZZ, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY: They are my children. They are our young brothers and sisters and we love them. Every one of them, to be honest straight up, every one of them that threw a brick, every one of them that set a fire, we still have to look at them with love and care and see what happened to that young man. There are people in this city that have nothing to lose and that is a terrifying situation when you have nothing to lose and you're willing to go out on video and camera and to carry out actions that you know could land you in jail for life or land you in jail for a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: The issue is whether or not those lawyers will call on those young people to honor tonight, 10:00 p.m. curfew, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Geraldo, we have some questions for you at the table. We will begin with Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hey, Geraldo, I want to ask -- you know, Leland brought up about the change in the behavior of the Baltimore police so that raises a question of -- why they acted a certain way the night before. What were they ordered to do? It seems like they were told to keep moving back, stay outside of being hit by rocks, not to respond to acts of vandalism. They also seemed like they didn't have enough riot gear. Who ordered this? Was this intentional? What were they told precisely not to do?

RIVERA: To me, it seems that the responsibility falls on the shoulder of the police commissioner, the mayor, and indeed the governor of the state of Maryland. They saw this coming. Why weren't they prepared? There were woefully inadequate numbers of police officers. They are typically coming in a day late and dollar short. Today, they are flooding the streets with all of these authorities. Where were they yesterday? They had to know. They had to know that this was coming. This state of emergency only declared at 6:00 p.m., why is that? Why wasn't it declared hours before? Why didn't they have guardsmen in the street? It just seems to me that there will be a scandal following the tragic death of this young man following the rioting that happened and it much of this damage and I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback, but it seems to many of these injuries that (inaudible) could have been prevented had they used this overwhelming force initially, rather than responding to it as the city was being set.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So Geraldo, yes, it seems like they were underestimating it, we saw that before in Ferguson with respect to the National Guard, not being called in time, and I bet you there are plenty of people with businesses that were destroyed and burned and looted. You saw people talking about family legacies gone, but they worked so hard, up in smoke, everything stolen because they didn't jump in ahead of time worrying about being politically correct. All right, we're going to get back to the news desk where Shepard Smith is standing by with the very latest with the press conference.

SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEWS: Thanks. Yup, the news conference is coming from the mayor of the city of Baltimore, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. We got notice three minutes ago over a three minute warning so believe it this is to begin at this moment, they are setting up a late microphone. She declared that state of emergency during Special Report last night and as all of you know, there were lots of questions about why that was. You may have heard the governor speaking and saying -- I think his words were, she finally got around to it. The hope is that she'll get questions about that now. The mayor has been speaking to local news organizations throughout the day but as -- I don't know if a blackout is too strong a word, but she hadn't spoken to any national media and certainly has not held a news conference. Again, this news conference, they assured us three months ago it was to have begun by now and it hasn't, and I won't take a bunch of your time so we'll watch for it in the second that actually does start, we'll take you back, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So Stacey, you have comments on what we've seen and what Geraldo had to report on?

STACEY DASH, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, I just wanted to know where the mayor was and now I know. She's gonna -- she's gonna give a report. But you know, I really believe that everything that happened, the police not responding the way they should, you know, what Greg asked, the questions you asked, I - I believe the answer is the fact that the woman said, you know allow them to destroy, give them the space to destroy. And, you know, caused destruction.

GUTFELD: I think that's why he -- you know what they pointed out, that the police threw a rock back? I think that was just a lame act of desperation, because they couldn't do anything else.

DASH: Right.

GUTFELD: Because like they kept moving back and then -- you know Shep says, oh, look, there's a police officer throwing a rock. It's like that yet, but he's not actually -- he is basically saying, I got nothing.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Right?

GUILFOYLE: It's true, probably frustration is.

BOLLING: So --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, go ahead.

BOLLING: Do we still have a minute --

GUILFOYLE: Look, actually that's in your comment.

BOLLING: Actually -- called a store owner for -- cash in weekends (ph). I called the store owner, he picked up the phone, he was one of the guys whose business was burned out, it was destroyed and lost and he was weeping. At that moment, I felt two things. Number one, I felt guilty as all heck, because I called a guy in the moment after his business gets burned out. He was weeping, visibly weeping. I felt terrible. But I also realized at that moment, that those are the people who are gonna be affected by this. When these protesters and rioters are burning businesses or flipping over cars -- 144 vehicles burned, 15 buildings burned, they are hurting their own community. They are hurting their own job, they are their own opportunity. It's so sad to see that. I don't know why we can see it, why can't they see it?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I think they do see it. I think, I think this is the thing. They had several days of peaceful protest in that town and in response to you Greg, part of it was that the mayor was affected in saying to the police, let's not act anything provocative matter, we want to protect first amendment rights of people who want to protest peacefully. She made a mistake when she got into the destruction business, but the people doing the destruction weren't the people involved with the protests, these were the kids yesterday, getting out of school --

BOLLING: Can I -- can I just clarify that?

WILLIAMS: No. Let me finish.

BOLLING: It's wrong --

WILLIAMS: Let me finish.

DASH: Yeah, but she --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Exactly right.

BOLLING: No, no. no.

WILLIAMS: I know this community and I know what happened --

BOLLING: Juan. Juan.

WILLIAMS: And it happened --

BOLLING: Juan --

(CROSSTALK)

DASH: And it needs to be stated that way.

BOLLING: 235 arrests, 201 of those were adults. OK?

WILLIAMS: Let me just say what (inaudible) is it.

BOLLING: 80 percent of the people --

DASH: The mayor.

BOLLING: There were adults.

WILLIAMS: You are not seeing the point again. What happened was at 3 o'clock, the kids had been on social media and the use of social media by kids who were trying to instigate something is an important part of this story. As the gang --

BOLLING: You shouldn't just blame the kids --

WILLIAMS: Hang on --

BOLLING: For the rioting.

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you that --

BOLLING: That's not the problem.

WILLIAMS: I am telling you that the rioting is primarily. A something that happened beginning at Mondawmin Mall, moving into West Baltimore, by those kids, getting out of school, kids have go to these terrible, high access rate --

DASH: So you think the mayor state and had nothing to do with it.

WILLIAMS: Hydra (ph). No, that mayor -- definitely made a mistake Stacey. But that was not any way post to it.

DASH: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Everyone is pointing a finger at the kids. And they know what does --

GUILFOYLE: Not those kids out there.

BOLLING: It softens what it is. Oh, there's --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, it was people who took advantage of the situation.

BOLLING: Juan --

WILLIAMS: Believe me, they are the one who start it.

BOLLING: I'm giving numbers, 235 arrests, 201 (inaudible) --

WILLIAMS: That -- he's talking about --

BOLLING: Kids like --

WILLIAMS: Citywide (ph).

BOLLING: . 34 -- let's call it what it is.

WILLIAMS: What?

BOLLING: It was a protest. It's a violent protest. They fight --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: One area in the city of Baltimore and that is not all of Baltimore. We got a tragic situation. Riot situation, but I'm gonna tell you, what you've got here is these kids --

SMITH: And what we have here is the beginning of the news conference. You've been watching the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, thanking people - - these are members of the police department, spokespeople, different community leaders and the rest. She was supposed to have begun this news conference at 5 o'clock this afternoon, doing a bit of glad (ph) handling now, but expected to step to the microphone like now. And the questions are numerous, including ones that The Five had for her. She's made every attempt to clarify her statements regarding time to destroy. The mayor has been clear to say what she meant was -- that she gave people time to protest and they used the time to destroy. But she's also said that the media twisted her words. When actually what we did was play her words. She said exactly those words and then she repeated them saying that she didn't say though. So rather correcting herself, she's try to save that others have taken her out of context and, and twisted what she said which -- the facts suggest that's not true. So here's the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings- Blake in her first national appearance, to give explanation to the last day and a plan to those ahead. Let's listen.

STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE MAYOR: Where is the commissioner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he did --

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: OK. OK. This remind me of (inaudible) --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. You could be that.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: All right. Good -- good afternoon or early evening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.

(CROSSTALK)

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: All right. We're getting started.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's focus now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do this whole day (ph).

(LAUGHTER)

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: Simmer down there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, simmer down.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: All right. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for being here. Last night was a very rough period for our city, but today, I think we saw a lot more what Baltimore is about. We saw people coming together to reclaim our city, to clean our city and to help heal our city. I think this can be our defining moment and not the darkest days that we saw yesterday. I spent the morning talking to residents. I visited along North Avenue where residents were cleaning up and trying to give comfort to people who know that their lives are going to be disrupted in major ways for a long time, because of the damage that was done to their community. I saw that the damage that was done to Mondawmin Mall and it breaks my heart because, those was about to are from Baltimore know how hard we fought for those resources and those stores to bring good quality products, items to our community and to have those stores destroyed, mom-and-pop (inaudible) destroyed senselessly. They are working to recover. I also visited Lexington market where vendors are desperately trying to get back to normal in dealing with the damage that was done as they -- as well. I want to sincerely thank the Baltimore City Police Department and I want to thank all of our other law enforcement partners who we have had in our city over the past week. Commissioner, you're going to have to give all of the counties who have been here, because I can't remember but, I know that several counties in Maryland had -- we have -- they have sent us resources over the past week and they have been extremely supportive and I'm very grateful for that. Trying to think about miss for anything -- and I also -- I should have started here, but I'll end here. I want to thank the members of the community, not just the ones that you see here behind me, but the ones that you haven't seen or won't see that have spent all day yesterday, all day today trying to figure out how we can come together as a city. How we can heal. We have churches that are opening themselves up to be a sanctuary and a refuge giving young people who are out of school a place - a place to go and something to eat. We have -- you know, so many in our community who are looking for ways to come together to heal. So I want to thank all of them and give a few community members an opportunity to give remarks. The first I would like to ask, Mark Washington of the Coldstream Homestead Montebello Community, Mark?

MARK WASHINGTON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COLDSTREAM HOMESTEAD MONTEBELLO COMMUNITY: Hi. My name is Mark Washington, I'm an executive director of Coldstream Homestead Montebello - and while we stay at here as just group of community --

SMITH: Well, here -- well, here's what we're gonna do. We're waiting for Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, the mayor of Baltimore to take questions. We've been assure that she will. She's done her thanking and now a number of people will speak. And when it's the media's turn ask her questions about the things that all of our minds, we'll get back to that, right now, back to The Five -- after this.

WASHINGTON: Of the majority of the city or the majority of the youth in the city.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. We're going to throw it back to Shep at the news desk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For everybody working to --

SMITH: Well, we, we want to just take the rim out of the brake, because the news conference is now starting to question and answer the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, and she said she will answer questions now so let's listen.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: Who love our city so much and are willing to stand up and to help us get information out and to help us to rebuild and -- so thank you. I think I'm turning it over to the commissioner? I believe so. I think so. Yes, yes, yes, I'm sorry. It's been a long day. I'd like to turn it over to the Commissioner Batts who is going to give us a public safety statement and then we'll open it up for questions. Thank you.

ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Just a couple of thoughts before we get started. You know my mayor takes a lot of shots and she's courageous enough to stand up and lead this city. You know I've been doing this job for a long time and I've been standing in front of microphones like this and news conference way too many times. And I've lived through a riot of Rodney Ling, I've lived through riots in Oakland and I'm living through them in the city of Baltimore. And when these things happen, this pain, this trauma that takes place in the community, you don't always see the richness of this community. These people standing behind me, these are the people of Baltimore that I know. The people who cares, who love this city, who are very good people and had do a lot for this community. When you're from Baltimore, you're from Baltimore and it's something in your DNA. And you know at the same time, as I see behind these cameras, my officers boarding that bus behind you, they love Baltimore too. I had officers come out to me and say, I was born and race in this city, this makes me cry. And one of my, my officer came and said, I went home and cried last night. This is a sad part of my city. But I think what you're seeing today within our community also is people out celebrating and trying to heal this community. It's clear that what we have to do is change the culture within the Baltimore Police Department. It's something that we started on 2 1/2 years ago and doing things totally different. Bringing this community inside this police department, taking the police department and sitting down and reading to 5, 6, 7-year-old young kids. Bringing athletics and making police officers coaches. We have more to do, but we can't do it this way but destroying this beautiful city. We have a lot of things that we need to change and we're willing to work in that direction.

Very shortly, we've had an OK day today. We had a small event that took place on the eastern position of our city early this morning that resulted in a couple of arrests, we have some of opportunists. Opportunists went through a couple of businesses, but overall today, it has been a very good day. As very - a please to see North Pennsylvania, we had dancing, we had people celebrating, we had people bringing calm and peace. We had one or two people that acted up that we made to arrests that are up there, before the most part the city has been calm today. People may ask also and put the question, why didn't you move faster yesterday? Did you prepare yesterday? Yes, we prepared. We had over 200, 300 police officers out there around that mall at the time that it took place. Why didn't you move faster? Because there are 14, 15, and 16-year-old kids out there. Do you want people using force on 14, 15, 16-year-old kids that are out there? And they are old enough to know better. They are old enough to know not to know to do those things, they are old enough to be accountable but they are still kids, unfortunately. And so we had to take that into account while we were out there.

(APPLAUSE)

FEMALE: (OFF-MIKE)

BATTS: We will continue to put information out on social media from the Twitter. I would ask that you guys continue to put information out and make sure that the community is aware. We have no exceptions other than for medical or coming and going from work; that we will be stopping people who are out after curfew; that we're taking that seriously. We don't want to engage in any forceful action whatsoever.

We have the National Guard here. We also have state police and a multitude of other agencies outside from New Jersey, even from D.C., as well as multiple counties within the state of Maryland. So we'll be out in strong numbers, making sure that we have no issues within our city.

And we ask everybody to cooperate and be understanding at this point in time. I know it's a little -- it throws people off who want to go out and have dinner and different other events, but as we move closer to calm our city, have a little patience with us as we move forward, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BATTS: We have no new intelligence. But also we had -- we had one gentleman who shot at officers last night at one event in the northwest. But we deal with threats on a common, common basis. That's the reality of policing.

I don't want to focus on that. I'd rather focus on the fact that we have these wonderful citizens behind us, and they are standing there. And they're willing to be the positive and not the negative within our city.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... of Saturday's protest, which ended pretty badly at the end of the night. Announced today and is circulating flyers for a protest here this coming Saturday. Is the city prepared for that, and how does the city respond to it?

BATTS: We're putting -- we're bringing in a lot of resources that continue to come in, like I said, from other states: Jersey, Pennsylvania, also from the Washington, D.C., area. So our numbers are growing with the National Guard here, state police here also. Our numbers are growing, in all to keep this city quiet and make sure that everyone is safe.

You know, it's the same thing. When people come inside -- come out from outside, it's one thing when people are saying, "We have pain within our community." It's one thing when people say, "We want this police organization to change," and since they pay our salary, we need to change to adapt to how the citizenry says here.

But when people come outside and hurt this community, and then when it's done, they leave and go home, and then we're in a shattered infrastructure, it's just not the right thing to do.

So what I've been told is that activists within our community, ministers within our community are trying to have conversations with people who are leading this stuff to remind them this is where we live. This is where we worship; this is where our kids go to school. So don't destroy it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... any link to the group of high school students who were demonstrating and the social media posts about The Purge. Did you find a district (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

BATTS: I think probably that there was a social media posting that said, "Come out to Mondawmin Mall at 3 p.m., and we're going to do a purge." The only thing I know about purge is a movie that's part one and two about running on a rampage.

The kids came out of high school. So I guess you could make a corollary about some of those kids being out there at that location. Also that, Mondawmin there is also a hub for, I believe it's about eight different schools. So on a daily basis, we have big numbers of kids that drop off there on a constant basis.

That just wasn't one high school that was there. When we started making mobile field force movements there, there were buses in line, and they let the kids off the buses. So we had even greater numbers that grew out there.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... National Guard. Do they have arrest powers in Baltimore City? How does that work? Are you concerned with coordinating that and keeping them in line with the approach that you're trying to take?

BATTS: Well, my responsibility, as the incident commander that oversees all of these responsibilities within the city of Baltimore, is to make sure that they act at the level that we have expectations with our citizens, citizens and our residents.

So we're working through that. I just had a conversation with the colonel of state police. We're discussing how to make sure that we operate appropriately and by the same procedures.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) officer who was unresponsive?

BATTS: I'm sorry. One more time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the latest on the injured police officers from last night?

BATTS: I went -- we had -- we had a number of police officers, and I have to check on the firefighters. I had about 15 of our officers, and a lot of them were bruises from -- bruises on their hands from rocks and bottles being taken. I had one Officer O'Brien who was in the hospital. I went to see him. Got struck in the head. He was held overnight, because they had to do scans to make sure there wasn't any permanent damage. I hear he's doing well. All the rest of my officers have been treated and released at this point in time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, guys. Thank you.

CAPTAIN ERIC KOWALCZYK, SPOKESMAN, BALTIMORE POLICE: We'll be doing another briefing in about an hour from now.

SMITH: Another briefing in an hour. The mayor -- the mayor makes the statement, but the mayor answers no questions. No questions from Stephanie Rawlings -- Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.

"The Five" continues with commentary right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: A lot of people have been asking, where are the parents of these kids who are burning down Baltimore? The minute Toya Graham learned her son was among the rioters, she went out to find him. And then she went after him on live TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOYA GRAHAM, MOTHER OF RIOTER: You (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Get over here now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: You know, that video has set people's hearts afire. You know why? Because, guess what? That's what's missing. It's parents; it's families. It's someone who's an authority figure in this community to say to these kids, "You don't get out of school and start rioting." This is what's missing.

I've got to tell you, Stacey, I just think that, when we look at these issues, you've got to talk about core issues like family breakdown.

DASH: Parenting. Absolutely. This woman, she gets mother of the year. Every mother should take a page out of her book. I don't care -- I know she -- you know, she said some foul language.

GUTFELD: She beat up her kid.

DASH: She beat him up a little bit. But he's bigger than her.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know what's funny? We know -- you know we're in bad times when we're saluting a woman who beat up her kid, because that's preferable.

DASH: But she took control and showed him there's a consequence for this. You will not do this. You will not behave like this.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, what I would say where is the dad, but I know the answer in all probability.

GUTFELD: You can't ask that. Juan, if you ask where the father is, you're editorializing. You are opining. You cannot ask where the father is.

BOLLING: Then I'll throw some numbers at it. Sixty-seven percent of black families, black kids grow up in a single-parent household.

WILLIAMS: It's a fact.

BOLLING: Twenty-five percent white families have the same situation. Asians, 16 percent. Hispanic, 42 percent. You're right. There it is. Two-thirds of the kids are growing up with one parent.

WILLIAMS: And this is not -- Kimberly, this is not -- this is not in isolation.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Because guess what? These single-parent kids, higher absentee rate from that school, you know, Douglas High School in Baltimore. Higher dropout rates, higher incarceration rates.

GUILFOYLE: I hear what you're saying. But you know what? Sometimes there's a situation that you find yourself in in through life, no matter what. You may be hardworking. You have good values.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And do the very best that you can, but you can still be a fantastic, a phenomenal single parent.

I don't know if she's a single mom or not.

WILLIAMS: I don't either.

GUILFOYLE: But the bottom line is, she's parenting. She's taking an active interest in where her child is. Do you know where your child is right now? What are they doing? What are they up to? She went out there, and yes, she put it on the line. Because somebody else could say, go ahead, prosecute her, child abuse, et cetera, et cetera.

WILLIAMS: Oh, please.

GUILFOYLE: Well, no, but that could happen. She's hitting her kid on live TV, and therefore -- but you know what? She's trying to say, "Let me take control of the situation and remove him." Because being part of the riots, going out there and destroying other people's property they've worked hard for is not OK.

WILLIAMS: It's not OK to destroy your own community.

GUTFELD: We're missing a big point here. What caused this -- all of this looting? The movie called "The Purge." From what I understand, it's entirely possible to have that director arrested for fomenting a riot...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: ... because we've done that before. Who was the director of "The Purge"? Why isn't he in jail, just like the guy who caused the Benghazi riots? There, I did that for Shep, to bring up Benghazi.

But you're absolutely right. We -- it's -- we know that what happened yesterday was about youth. Because when people are older, they're less likely to riot. We have abdicated the role as adults. And youngsters, as we call them now, know this. So now when they see an adult, they treat them like a substitute teacher with absolutely no respect.

WILLIAMS: And let me just say, this is what happens with the police. The police come in, and they're asked to be the adult, the authority figure...

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: ... for people who are acting out, acting crazy, engaged in criminal activity. And they react to a white police officer, a black police officer as "You're getting in my face."

GUTFELD: And it's racially diverse.

WILLIAMS: But this is not about race. This is about they've never experienced an authority figure telling them to behave.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

BOLLING: Along the lines of an authority figure, I remember five or six years ago President Obama making this one of his main talking points: I'm going to fix the structure of the African-American family. We're going to get this 67 percent, two-thirds of all children growing up in a single- parent family household, we're going to get that number down. Where did that go?

WILLIAMS: My Brother's Keeper, you know, people like Ben Crump are doing...

BOLLING: When was the last time President Obama mentioned that?

WILLIAMS: Oh, they bring -- mention it all the time.

BOLLING: It's got to be years, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no, no, Eric. Eric, you're not listening, because it doesn't make news. But he has been on it.

The problem is that people like President Obama, even the new attorney general, oftentimes they're dismissed, ignored by young people who say, "Oh, you know, they're part of the establishment."

Guess what? You have to struggle to become a leader in this country. And why would you ignore black leaders like the mayor, like the president?

To me, these kids are out of control. And I'm just glad that mom said, "You know what? Rather than have the police whoop up on the boy, I'm going to do it myself. I'm going to keep you out of jail, but you're going to be in trouble when you get home." That to me is the way it should be.

GUTFELD: There's a whole generation of men that are missing.

WILLIAMS: It's a fact, and it's damaged a generation of black young people in this country. And I don't think there's any question. You know, people brag about how many shiny cars and hubcaps and how many girls they got. This is dysfunctional. And you know, rather than making excuses for it, I want to see more of the mamas taking the kids to school. That's what I'm saying.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I think that's so important.

DASH: Single mothers just have to be stronger.

WILLIAMS: Yes. We've got a strong single mother right here.

GUILFOYLE: And another one.

WILLIAMS: And another one. Well, I'm just saying, we're talking about here...

GUTFELD: I'm not a single mother.

WILLIAMS: No, you're a single lovely (ph).

But what I'm saying is, you have got to see (ph) people in a poor black community. Often the mother, as you said, is out there, working two jobs, but she doesn't have time to take care of kids and guide the kids. We need to not make excuses for that kid. We need to get that kid under control.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And put your kid in the door every morning at school. That's what we've got to make sure of. That's what I do.

BOLLING: Where's dad?

WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying. It's killing me. It's killing me.

BOLLING: Speculate. Where's dad?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think, you know, look, there are a lot of men in jail. Look, I think Baltimore is like 64, 63 percent black, right? But 89 percent of the people in jail, black.

GUTFELD: This is -- I mean, this is a problem, because you obviously have regulatory laws, you know.

WILLIAMS: What?

GUTFELD: Well, being arrested for drug offenses.

WILLIAMS: Oh, drugs.

GUTFELD: It happens, and that also prevents them from getting jobs.

WILLIAMS: Yes, it does.

GUTFELD: And they have to change -- I think they have to change that. Because I mean, if you're being arrested for smoking pot, you've still got -- you can still be a functional person.

WILLIAMS: But you know what?

GUILFOYLE: And you go out and reoffend, because you can't get a job.

GUTFELD: Right.

GUILFOYLE: It's a bad cycle.

GUTFELD: I think Baltimore has changed that.

GUILFOYLE: Everybody makes choices, regardless of your skin color. You make choices, especially in (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

WILLIAMS: You know what really aggravates me? Is the idea, though, that some people want to make excuses for these kids by saying, "Oh, this is about a reaction to Freddie Gray's murder, and this is about social injustice." These kids are acting as if they're criminals. They should be put under their mother's thumb. Or whooped.

Anyway, don't go anywhere. "The Five" comes back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back to our continuing coverage in Baltimore. President Obama weighed in this afternoon. The president spread the blame around. Here he blames the agitators and the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is not a protest. It is not a statement. It's people -- a handful of people taking advantage of a situation for their own purposes, and they need to be treated as criminals.

You have seen multiple days of peaceful protests that were focused on entirely legitimate concerns of these communities in Baltimore. And frankly, didn't give them much attention. And one burning building will be looped on television over and over and over again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And he wasn't done there. The president pointed a finger at law enforcement, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We have seen too many instances of what appears to be police officers interacting with individuals, primarily African-American, often poor, in ways that raise troubling questions. And it comes up, it seems like, once a week now. Or once every couple of weeks. I think there are police departments that have to do some soul searching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So 435 arrests, 144 vehicles burned, 15 buildings burned, 20 officers hurt; and the media and law enforcement get called out by the president, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you know, once again, the commander in chief, the president of the great United States of America, had a real opportunity to bring about some positive social justice himself and bring communities together. But he really has tremendous focus, shall I say, on police departments and focusing on everything that is wrong with them, seeming to want to blame them.

But if we look at the numbers that you talked about yesterday, this is actually a very diverse police department in Baltimore, which they should be commended for that. Does it mean that they are perfect? No. Do they have problems there that they need to deal with? Yes. Hopefully, this is going to bring back that to their attention, and they see what they can do to make more effective relations in the community.

But this -- you know, this is consistent rhetoric, you know, that we've seen from President Obama and from people like Eric Holder in the past.

WILLIAMS: I just thought the president spoke the truth. I don't know what you guys are upset about.

We didn't show a video where the president says there is no excuse for this kind of violence. It was counterproductive. They're not protesting. They're not making a statement. They're stealing. They're destroying, undermining business and opportunity in their own community, robbing jobs from black people. That's what the president...

BOLLING: And then -- and then...

GUILFOYLE: That was the first part of the sound that we played.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: ... on about law enforcement.

WILLIAMS: Well, he's saying that, of course we have a history in this country and there was reason for a legitimate protest.

BOLLING: I didn't hear him mention the fathers. I didn't hear him mention the families.

WILLIAMS: I agree. The root -- some of the root causes in the -- in the problems here.

DASH: I believe this is the production of this -- this is a direct production of the system that he has put into place, the system that he and Al Sharpton have put into place in these neighborhoods, and it is failing. And this is proof of it. You know, it's -- he won't take responsibility for it, but I put it on his head.

GUTFELD: I can agree with some of the things he says, but the trouble that I have is that he can -- when these kinds of events happen, he can separate the criminality from the sincere protester and outrage, which is fine and true, but then he will smear the entire police department.

You have to be consistent. If you're going to say there are good apples and bad apples here, he's got to come out and say, it's like it's happening every week. It's like it's happening every week. That's not statistic. That's not a statistic. That's a sense of -- it sounds like it's happening a lot more. Well, we have more cameras and stuff. It seems that way.

So he has to be -- in terms of soul searching, he has to soul search. Good and evil are not relative when somebody is looting. And you cannot say, well that's -- like when you say -- when you look at looting or crime and you say, "I don't condone it but I understand it," when you say you understand it, you condone it.

BOLLING: Yes.

GUTFELD: And I think that right now -- whenever these things happen, they always say, "It began peacefully." But it always begins peacefully and then it ends violently, because the leadership has abdicated the responsibility in challenging their constituency. They're afraid of challenging their constituency, and they have allowed them to do this.

WILLIAMS: But I think you have to let people vent at some point.

GUTFELD: Really?

WILLIAMS: You have to allow people, when they have a legitimate grievance.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: We did not have riots this last summer in Ferguson. We've been through Cleveland. We've been through Staten Island here in New York. There's not been riots.

BOLLING: Could you define "vent," though?

WILLIAMS: Vent? I think you allow people to express themselves.

BOLLING: Has any of these things that have blown up Ferguson, Staten Island Cincinnati...

WILLIAMS: It hasn't blown up. No rioting there.

BOLLING: OK. There was rioting here. There was rioting in Ferguson. There could have been in Staten Island. There kind of was.

WILLIAMS: No, there wasn't.

BOLLING: But was there ever an instance where the protesters weren't allowed to protest or vent?

WILLIAMS: No. And I think this is where the mayor got in trouble. Because you guys are right. Once you allow people to say, "Oh, you can destroy property; you can misbehave, and we're going to tolerate that," you are inviting bad behavior. But the idea that we have First Amendment rights, that's not just black people. That's everybody.

BOLLING: K.G., you can't hide behind the First Amendment when property is burned and people are hurt.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes. The First Amendment doesn't shield lawlessness or violence or destruction of property. That is not what it is for. So people that say that are just making an excuse to be able to go ahead and offend and commit crimes against other innocent people.

So who's the bad one there? The people who are going out at night and destroying businesses and lives, families that won't have a chance to rebuild? Look at yourself in the mirror and ask, are you really part of the solution or are you at the core of the problem?

WILLIAMS: Hey, Eric, can I just take a second here? Something happened that just really upset me. Marc Lamont Hill was on CNN.

BOLLING: Yes. I agree with this completely.

WILLIAMS: And he said...

BOLLING: That was one of the most egregious things I've ever heard.

WILLIAMS: Well, tell people what happened.

BOLLING: No. Go ahead.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BOLLING: He basically said that these protesters are in their right; the rioters are in their right.

WILLIAMS: They're not -- he said they're not rioters. These are people who are working for justice.

GUTFELD: An uprising. Called it an uprising.

WILLIAMS: And don't call them rioters. These are folks who are working in an uprising. I mean, this is reflective.

Jesse Jackson at the funeral yesterday said we need less police, more jobs. Again, people in denial, making excuses for bad behavior.

GUTFELD: Juan, do you know what the ultimate consequence of that is? When President Obama says we keep showing the same place being burned. If you were CVS, do you decide to go back and build again in a neighborhood like this? If you can't trust the community or depend on city leaders to protect you when things go bad, why would you want to move in these places.

So when Marc Lamont Hill calls it a row of uprising or it just diminishes a few buildings on fire, the long-term results, because we've heard that it's taken us decades to get past the riots in the '60s, the long-term result is a city dies; people move out. You've got the 14, 15 percent of Baltimore residents have left since the riots of the '60s. This is going to continue. You will kill your city off, because no one wants to go there. You can't have nice things.

WILLIAMS: But you know what? Even in a black community, black businesses are destroyed. So somebody who built their business...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: It hurts my heart to sit here and say it. When you look at immigrants coming from around the world, why do they come to America? Opportunity. But it's not -- that message is not delivered by people who talk about it's an uprising. Don't want to say it's a riot; don't want to say these kids are out of control.

BOLLING: Ferguson, Missouri, real-estate property values are down 30 percent still. They may never recover.

GUTFELD: Yes. And then you have -- you have immigrants who do come here, and where are their business? Are in the rougher neighborhoods and areas. And they are the guy who gets destroyed. So you've got a Vietnamese owner who's there, and he's trying to make good for his family; and his place gets destroyed.

DASH: The unfortunate thing is that this is all happening in neighborhoods where there is no education.

BOLLING: Correct.

DASH: There is, like we said, no parenting.

BOLLING: Yes.

DASH: And there is no one there leading these kids into a right direction, showing them what's right.

I understand their anger, their frustration. Everyone gets angry. But you know, it's -- I know this because I grew up in an area like this. You'd rather be mad than sad.

But there has to be someone -- if the gangs are willing to unite together to do some nefarious act, I'm hoping and praying that they would be willing to unite together with the police and start a dialogue on how to fix the source of this problem.

WILLIAMS: Well, yes, that's a good idea. Right, trust. Community policing. But now you have this angle: I heard it this weekend. I was hosting some panels. Where black people are saying, "We need no police. Instead, we need more social workers, more mental health workers."

GUTFELD: That's last night repeating itself.

WILLIAMS: Those who need the police the most are people in highly violent, dysfunctional black communities that call somebody for help.

GUILFOYLE: People who live in those communities know that. Believe me. They welcome police to come in and put some order to a community so they can go out at night to go to the grocery store and do whatever they need to do and run their everyday life. I mean, this violence, this lawlessness is not the answer, and it's disheartening to see that we haven't evolved.

WILLIAMS: Well, look at that. We're having a love-in at the end of the show. We finally found a point of agreement.

BOLLING: We only have a few more seconds, Juan. At one point President Obama said we need more investment in these communities. What does that mean? Does that mean throw money at the problem?

WILLIAMS: If that's the case, that's a losing proposition. Because I mean, we throw money at schools, and I don't see that it's necessarily the solution.

DASH: I hope it means actual people going into communities.

BOLLING: And fixing things?

DASH: And fixing it.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to have to leave it right there. Set your DVR so you don't ever miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. Stay tuned for continuing coverage of the riots in Baltimore. "Special Report" on deck, coming up right now.

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