This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 13, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News alert. You're looking live at St. Louis County police headquarters, where Chief Jon Belmar is holding a press conference on the latest developments after two police officers were shot, early Thursday morning. We'll let you know if there are any developments on the manhunt that's under way. But meanwhile, last night, around 200 people peacefully rallied outside the city's the police station. Thankfully, it's much smaller and quieter crowd than the night before. Fox's Steve Harrigan was front and center, capturing the raw emotions so present in the community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We saw a very aggressive manhunt throughout the day today. SWAT Team actually going through the roof. Well, you have a mask on so you're really not one to speak about what's true and what false.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: Do you want to talk to me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: Take your mask off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: Tell me your name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: And then let's talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: I don't have a mask on. I'm standing here giving my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's false.
HARRIGAN: That's being a coward, having a mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was being a coward to coming in to someone's community after a tragedy? And insulting him with your words?
HARRIGAN: I'm not insulting anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be --
HARRIGAN: This is my community also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Steve joins us now from Ferguson. Steve, I mean, you gone there over and over and again, you have seen the community. What do you think is happening on the ground tonight?
HARRIGAN: I think we're probably likely to see some more demonstrations of a small number. We got a real cold wet rain that might keep the numbers down. The other thing unusual really last night, we've seen a lot of different tactics from the police. They actually came out the night after two policemen were shot without riot gear and dispersed people about midnight. It was very effective. It took a lot of people by surprise they came out without riot gear and a very calm manner, disperse people.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Steve, so last time, there were a couple day delay. If I remember correctly, I think it was a Tuesday, it was the first night. Wednesday was the second night of this -- of protest. It wasn't until the weekend where things kind of really heated up. Do you expect anything different? Sounds like it was peaceful last night, it was Rowdy two nights ago, peaceful last night. Do you think they go back to the more outrageous behavior?
HARRIGAN: I think the fact that these two policemen been were shot has thrown a wrench into the momentum of the protesters, plus the fact that they got in so many of their demands met. We've seen police chief gone, the city manager gone, judge gone, I think all of these factors together are gonna reduce the numbers. But, we've seen surprises before. Twists and turns and a crowd can build here very suddenly. But, unless we see some dramatic new information perhaps, about this shooter, who he is or how he's treated, I think we're going to see the numbers go down at this point. But that's a guess.
JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: Steve, who is talking the lead on this? Is it the Ferguson police or is it outside St. Louis County police? Who is out there right now, monitoring these protests for the most part?
HARRIGAN: We've really seen a shift in tactics now, to the larger St. Louis County police and that's the chief who is giving a press conference now. It's really been a hand over from the local Ferguson police to the larger, perhaps, better trained better organized police and we've seen a change in tactics as well. They were accused of being heavy handed back in August and then again in November, and now we've seen a different touch with the larger St. Louis County police who have taken control here now.
JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: Steve, when you talk to these protesters, in terms of actual reform and what they want to see happen. Is there an overriding theme or trend that you're hearing?
HARRIGAN: I think what, what really has struck me in talking to protesters is just this, this surprising gap, just how bad they consider things to be here. I was talking to like a woman in her 40s, African-American woman who works at Bush stadium, and just for her to say that she didn't consider those two white police officers as human beings. I mean, I'm interviewing her, she is articulate. She has a full time job, she's a middle age woman, and just to hear she say that, sort of stunned me. That -- that is where she is, and that, you know, as I'm talking to her, I'm just like, whoa.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Steve, after the killings of the New York Police Department officers, and then these shootings, everyone is quick to say that these are like bad apples. Not representative of the whole, which they don't do when there's a police incident. They tend to indict the whole police force or the police as a nation force, is always indicted. You were there. You're actually are in the barrel amongst all the apples. Is -- what is the ratio of bad apples to good apples? Are the people that are causing problems, just a tiny sliver or do they make up a larger whole?
HARRIGAN: You know -- it's interesting. I thought I would go around last night and talk to 10 people on the air and I have had 10 people say, "Oh, these are bad apples. These are not part of the protest. We are completely peaceful. This did not come from us." But I didn't even get that. I got that 50 percent of the time. The other half of the time was -- the cops got what they deserved.
GUTFELD: Wow.
HARRIGAN: So there's a large residue. I'm not saying at bad apples, but the people with no empathy towards the policemen in their own community and that struck me of --
GUTFELD: That is amazing.
HARRIGAN: What kind of a situation we have here.
PERINO: I have the last question for you Steve, because many got some reporting to do. But I was curious about, how the misinformation or the spreading of the, hands up, don't shoot -- lie, really, that found out that -- that was did not happen, but that had became like the symbolism of the moment -- movement all across the country. And then the other night, after the shooting, you had Mark Morial suggesting that maybe, there was something else here that perhaps, it could have been organized by someone else, maybe that it was an inside job by the police force. What sort of misinformation gets in the community and after you have been there for a few months. It does stick over time?
HARRIGAN: It really does stick. And there are basic facts that, you know, reported on the wires and the news, everywhere, that people really dispute the incidents around Michael Brown's death. The incidents about, even these police officers, we're in a debate last night with someone who insisted the bullet was not still lodged in one of the officer's head. Which is in fact, it is, it's right near his ear. He was shot onto the right eye, the bullets still there. So, basic facts from back in August to November to now are completely different depending on who you talk to and some of these protesters just are missing key basic facts of what really has happened.
PERINO: Alright, Steve, thanks so much for joining us and we'll watch your reporting over tonight and tomorrow.
HARRIGAN: Thank you.
PERINO: Alright. I'm curious about that, Greg, when he talk -- when he says that this -- this misinformation, basic facts aren't resolved. How is the - - how does anybody get around that from a communication standpoint?
GUTFELD: Well, it this -- a lot of this has to do with media amnesia. For the past seven months, there have networks that have been putting out this information without really checking it out. And they play a role in the atmosphere that's been ginned up, that has created the scene (ph). I was watching CNN this morning at the gym and they were talking about healing. They were talking healing. Without admitting that they were the ones that have been pouring salt on the wounds. I mean, if you look -- CNN really puts the division in news division, because for seven months they spent pushing out this stuff and now they are talking about healing. It kills me. The thing is -- he brought up the thing about -- about not having riot gear. I think that's the worst thing. You don't de-police the police. You don't send them out less protected in time of threat. There's no such thing as a casual Friday in law enforcement. You're armed and you're lethal, so we don't have to. And everyone seems to be in a green -- a green group except the police, it's the only color that you can hate is blue. It's a community. It's a police community. The president is a community organizer. Here's a community that he can help organize, and he should.
PERINO: But -- speaking of the president, he was actually on Jimmy Kimmel last night and he addressed this. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Obviously, we don't know what happened. Our thoughts and prayers are with the officer and their families and then thankfully, as you said they are gonna be OK. I think what had been happening in Ferguson was oppressive and objectionable, and was worthy of protest. But, there was no excuse for criminal acts. And whoever fired those shots shouldn't detract from the issue, they are criminals, they need to be arrested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: The day before, actually Eric, Holder, the attorney general had said similar things about it being criminal activity, but he called the perpetrators punks. I think that the president's language was stronger yesterday. Did you like what you heard from him?
BOLLING: Yeah. But again, here -- did -- we mentioned yesterday, Mark Morial did the same thing. He mentioned, well, maybe there was a reason. There was a reason baked into why some of the cops were shot. And then go out -- they go on to condemn the shooting, it's the same thing. It's -- once you -- once you tie those two things together, you can say but, that was terrible what they did. In everyone's mind it go, oh, so maybe there was a reason why these cops were shot. Maybe there was a reason why these protesters are protesting. Instead of just saying, look, it was wrong, we need stand up for our police. We need to make sure that the community -- as Greg points out. The community is organized. Go ahead, you're good at it, organize the community. I don't know what these people want. They got the police chief to step down. They got five other people within the department to step away from their jobs. They shot two cops and they are still protesting? They are not protesting any grievances. They are protesting for the sake of protesting.
BILA: I think there needs to be a better bond between law enforcement and the community. Because something is happening here in this community and probably in many others, where when you have police come out in riot gear, something is happening. There's a disconnect where these people don't feel the police are there to protect them. And they, they feel like they are the enemy, instead of them both being on the same side a lot of time. A lot of these protesters are peaceful. They are calling for camaraderie. So there has to be something that happens, I don't know if it happens -- start at the dinner table, start at the family level, start with the community level, I don't think President Obama or any one man or any one woman is gonna be able to fix this problem. I think this is a community problem. The community has gonna have to come together. Families have to come together and law enforcement has gonna have to play a role. If that means that they maybe go into community, do community service, do something that lets everybody know we're on the same team here, we're trying to preserve and save and protect this community with you, and we all stand together.
ROGINSKY: I think that's such a good point because, look, you ultimately have a report. If you accept part of the report which says that hands up don't shoot, was basically a fallacy. If you accept that part, you have to accept the other part of the report, which is that the police were sent -- essentially tax agents, to make people pay absurd fines for things that they could or did or didn't do. You have 14-year-old boy having dog, six on them, as I read a part of that police report. So, if you accept that's as a truism, as you should -- the fallacy of hands up don't shoot, then you have to understand that these people are obviously, incredibly fed up with the way that they have been treated over the course of, I don't know how many years if not decades. And to me, Jedediah, your point is so well taken, there is such a level of mistrust.
BILA: You're right Eric, I don't know if they know what they are protesting, but I still -- I assume, if a tremendous amount of anger that's been pent up over the court of many, many years.
BOLLING: Can I just say -- the cops addressed that report. They addressed the part of, you know, whatever it was, 87 percent of the violations were given to African-Americans when only 73 percent of the population is African. They addressed all that and they say, we're gonna work on it. The police chief steps down. Other people step down. Cops are shot. And they are still out there. How about giving it a chance? How about giving -- letting -- having some trust in the Ferguson Police Department saying.
BILA: Yeah.
BOLLING: You promised us. Now, let's see. If it doesn't work, and if the numbers are same, then come back later and protest. But, protesting now seems like they are protesting for the sake of protesting.
GUTFELD: There's, there's a severe lack of balance here. We are completely OK with indicting a system of law enforcement without indicting the community. We keep hearing demonstrators saying, dismantle the system. Have a fundamental change in the system. OK. Why don't we do this? Let Ferguson be the first great left-wing experiment. Dismantle the police department. Have the other cities absorb the cops, if you own a business there, move. Let, let Ferguson be the first non -- the first copless (ph) community and see how it goes. Or, as a solution, instead of, instead of indicting a system, admit that everybody is culpable. Not just the police, but the community as well, and the government that turns them into tax agents which by the way, isn't isolated to Ferguson. Every city does this. Every city does this. And some cities do this worse than Ferguson. So how do you get there? How do you get there? You have to admit there's a fundamental breakdown in the structures that kept communities together, which is family, work, national pride, law enforcement. You have to admit that you have failed yourself and then you can move forward. But indicting the police department? You're gonna lose.
PERINO: Can I ask Julie --
GUTFELD: Your community is gonna lose.
PERINO: Can I ask Julie a last question before we go. President Obama has had Al Sharpton to the White House so many times, there are not enough fingers at this table to count how many times. Couldn't President Obama ask Al Sharpton to go to Ferguson or elsewhere or on TV as he likes to do, and to deliver a responsible message? I mean, couldn't he do -- could he push him to say.
ROGINSKY: I'm sure.
PERINO: Do something responsible?
ROGINSKY: I'm sure he could, but I certainly don't think that Al Sharpton should be the messenger of responsibility. I mean, Al Sharpton -- trade is to stir the pot.
PERINO: Well, he has been --
ROGINSKY: Well, I mean.
BILA: They in breath (ph)
BOLLING: That is --
PERINO: The community has been listening to him for months. BOLLING: That is --
ROGINSKY: No, no, no. I -- I understand that.
BOLLING: That was like Exxon to asking Exxon Mobil to push an --
BILA: Environmental car.
ROGINSKY: Right, exactly.
PERINO: They do.
ROGINSKY: No, no, I think.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: You're absolutely right, the great analogy. Al Sharpton, I -- I hope to God there is a better messenger for than this.
PERINO: Well, I'm just saying that there isn't.
ROGINSKY: Should -- whether he represent (ph) himself.
PERINO: So, he has been the one that they have been listening to for several months, so why doesn't the president utilize a little power and say, you know I've had you close to me and I need some help right now.
ROGINSKY: I have --
PERINO: I need you to go out and do the right thing.
ROGINSKY: I have a better idea.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: Stop using Al Sharpton as.
PERINO: Altogether?
ROGINSKY: Altogether. That actually be my suggestion. Maybe Al Sharpton should not be the person that's going out there as your civil rights emissary, because Al Sharpton, I'm old enough to remember - couple of things Al Sharpton did, instead of 1980s here in New York City that he has never apologize for it.
GUTFELD: Obama.
PERINO: But President Obama doesn't remember that. He hasn't.
ROGINSKY: I agree.
PERINO: At the White House.
ROGINSKY: I agree.
PERINOI: Alright. Coming up, we all know the Clintons play by their own set of rules but, how do they keep getting away with it? We discuss the Clinton way. That's next on The Five.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Anyone who has observed the Clintons over the years knows, they don't play by the same rules as you or me or at least they don't think they have to. Not even TIME magazine is shining a spotlight on this phenomenon with a cover story titled, The Clinton Way, in it they say, quote, "The Clintons play by their own set of rules and in this case, the former secretary of state explained, those rules bless her decision to erase some 30,000 e-mails from the family server despite knowing that the e-mails had become a subject of intense interest to congressional investigators." OK, guys, let's bring it around. Dana, you like this Hillary story, TIME magazine. By the way, did you see the TIME magazine cover? Those --
PERINO: Yeah.
BOLLING: That -- inadvertent or was that?
PERINO: Well, let's explain this. So the TIME magazine cover has -- just a silhouette of Hillary and there are some people she's zeroed in up, up there on where the M is, something in the -- the question is, did they do it on purpose to make it took like she has horns, and I don't think they did it on purpose.
BOLLING: Very.
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: I think it was inadvertent.
BOLLING: Talk about what they, they highlight the fact that the -- the hiding emails is gonna be the problem.
PERINO: So the story -- when she had her press conference this week, I know that they hoped it would go away, but it's very interesting how it continues to drip out and develop. One, you have the White House distancing which the quote in politico is at, at the top, very top levels, they are saying about this, what the H-E Double Hockey Sticks. The second thing is you have, security experts saying that there are actually rules and regulations and laws of how you have to deal with sensitive information, even if it's not classified and she did not obey any of those. Then you have this information from Shannen Coffin who was a former DOJ lawyer who says, there is one form that every government official has to sign when they leave. It's OF-109. She -- the State Department still has not told us whether she signed it or not. I don't see why it's that hard. It's one piece of paper. It exists or it doesn't. They should be able to tell us that, two days ago, but they don't. And then the final thing I've saying on that is yet again today, the State Department had to come out and reverse its story again, about whether the e-mails were archived, because it turns out up until last month, they were not. But Hillary Clinton said they were, two days ago. So that's why the story continues to grow.
BOLLING: It keeps -- yeah, it keeps having lies. Julie, New York Times broke the story, AP and Gawker are finally suing against the Clintons for some of the e-mails and now TIME magazine runs the Clinton way piece. Left- wing media, mainstream media, pushing back on the Clinton --
ROGINSKY: Well, she was never --
BOLLING: Possible --
ROGINSKY: She was never beloved by the mainstream media. I mean, they basically took her down in 2008.
PERINO: True.
ROGINSKY: Remember Obama was --
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: True.
ROGINSKY: The shining star. But, look, I'm a liberal I want to see her be president. Because again, I keep wanting her views to be in the White House, not necessarily Hillary Clinton, but I'm outraged by this story. I think it's stickable. (ph) I mean, there is no excuse for it. There's none whatsoever, that she did what she did and so ultimately, when you have these kinds of situations, you have Hillary Clinton going out there and saying, these rules apply to everybody else. They don't apply to me. It lends itself to TIME magazine stories, and their right to have done it. What I find fascinating is, if you look at what the Clintons are looking at, what the recent (ph) campaign is looking at, they are looking at the fact that her numbers are not --
BOLLING: Isn't that crazy
ROGINSKY: I'll tell you why.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: I'll tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: And I'll tell you why. Everybody in America except for Millennials, have made up their mind about Hillary Clinton. Be there to love her or they hate her. This is impure compelling (ph) data. And only 4 percent of Millennials are paying attention to the story. Only people have not made up their mind, only 4 percent of them are paying attention. So this would not move her numbers.
BOLLING: Trip, trip, trip, eventually fills up the poll?
GUTFELD: Yeah, I think so. I don't think it's not going away. When you combine lawyer -- Dana Loyer (ph) with being a politician, you get -- you end up seeing the world as a board game, in which you are immune to the instructions. She has a pocketful of get out of free -- you know, get out of jail free cards, and she's gonna use it for life. She transforms public service into royalty. She's more of a queen, at this point than a candidate, which is what makes it so entertaining because, she -- you know that she thinks debates are gonna be beneath her. How dare she be on the same stage with these people? It's like sharing an elevator with the delivery man, and then she's gonna be even disgusted by the idea of voting. Like, how can 300 million people matters as much as me? Can we just - she wants to be anointed and that inner psychology is driving her crazy.
BOLLING: Jedediah --
BILA: Yeah.
BOLLING: Go ahead.
BILA: Yeah. BOLLING: I just want -- John Gotti. Teflon Don, is she tough on him?
(LAUGHTER)
BILA: I mean, I think the biggest problem is her delivery stinks. I mean, Bill Clinton could have walked into that press room.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BILA: And he could have, had the same problem and he would have convinced us all, to somehow have empathy for him. She's not good at this. She is not a good politician, so the transparency issue is fine. I think what's gonna be a big problem for the left is that she not gonna be good at debates. She has not gonna do well with communicating. She's not gonna do well with resonating with voters. People aren't gonna identify with her, they're gonna see her as an establishment person. She didn't lift her face up. I mean, whoever coach her on that appearance, should be fired.
ROGINSKY: That's the problem.
BILA: You don't stare down at the paper.
ROGINSKY: They had the paper.
BILA: But you -- well, they should have done a better job, because that is not work. That's not gonna fly.
BOLLING: hang in there. Just stay right there, because enough about Hillary. What about the GOP candidates?
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Scott Walker and --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Scott Walker and Jeb Bush are emerging as Republican frontrunners and Wisconsin governor fired the opening shot in this potential rival. He said quote, "Jeb is a good man. You're not going to hear me speak ill will of Jeb. He's a friend of mine. I just think voters are going to look at us and say, if we're running against Hillary Clinton, we need a name from the future not a name from the past to win. Jed, go ahead.
BILA: Yeah, I mean, I mean, good for him. I happened to be a fan of new blood, fresh blood, bring it on in, I think Scott Walker. If he wants to get Conservatives riled up and in his corner, talk about common core. That is the single greatest issue that's gonna play Jeb Bush, you know people see it as federal overreach and you can't be eliminate (ph) government advocate and be advocating for common core. So that would be the issue I would go after, because it's gonna be -- but with that being said there are a lot of options on the GOP side. The left has Hillary, and if she goes down, they go down.
BOLLING: Fair?
ROGINSKY: I think it's fair. I mean that's -- I think that's a great analogy and analysis, because Hillary is all we've got. I said last week, that I was a little frustrated that --
BOLLING: She was all we got.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: I'm frustrated that she's asking us to trust her with the nomination essentially, and at the end of the day, she's not just doing much to earn that trust from us and treating us kind of were idiots but, in terms of Jeb Bush and if you have a Bush/Clinton election again. I mean, you know, 1992 I was in college, so that's pretty sad. And that's what we - -
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Was that fair? That was -- there wasn't really a shot, was it?
PERINO: Well, I think that -- do you realize that we are only five months away from the first Republican primary debate.
BOLLING: Wow.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: And I believe that's a Fox News debate, it's gonna be in Ohio. So, five months away -- five months goes like, by that. So, I think that this type of pushback in the media, between the camps and -- it won't be just those two will be other campaign -- perfectly normal.
BOLLING: Is it gonna -- get hotter and heavier than just, hey --
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Yeah.
BOLLING: Names.
GUTFELD: Probably.
BOLLING: Of the past.
GUTFELD: I mean, the GOP stands for the Grand Old Party, but it should be Get Other People.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Because they need new fresh intellectual agile types to counter musty steal presumed nominee that's Hillary Clinton. That's why Hillary Clinton is gonna be a great nominee for the GOP. The GOP, it's theirs to lose, they are so damn good at losing. If they stick to unity, foreign policy and economy, and emphasize a renewed American identity, as an alternative to division, they will win. But if they go up on stupid tangents --
PERINO: But who is not doing that? I mean, I just, I find here a little cynical on this.
GUTFELD: Extremely cynical.
(CROSSTALK) GUTFELD: Simply cynical. PERINO: Yes. I mean, but who is that --
GUTFELD: How can I not be?
PERINO: But who -- who is the crop of candidates are your complaining about? Or you just worried that they are, maybe, probably are going to screw up, so you just already ascribe to them to the trash heap of history.
GUTFELD: I have.
PERINO: Or they even can't to start of it.
GUTFELD: I have.
PERINO: Good grief.
GUTFELD: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Mina (ph) is -- GUTFELD: Negative (ph) person.
BOLLING: Mina (ph) is never yelling at me.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: Mina (ph) is -- Mina (ph) never yells.
PERINO: That's why her name is Mina (ph)
BOLLING: We got -- we got -- take a break.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: She's not yelling.
GUTFELD: Mina Cartel (ph).
BOLLING: When we come back. Are we really winning the fight against ISIS? A disturbing new report debunks the administration's claims. We'll gonna break that down, coming up next on The Five.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BILA: Is the Obama administration shooting straight with us on the fight against ISIS? Some closest to the White House say we're making gains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ALLEN (USMC, RET.), SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY, STATE DEPARTMENT: ISIL's advances have been blunted, and they have been driven back from the approaches to Baghdad and Erbil. ISIL lost half of its Iraq-based leadership, thousands of hardened fighters and is no longer able to amass and maneuver effectively.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are thousands of strikes that have been conducted by the United States and our coalition partners to take out ISIL targets, in some cases even ISIL leadership targets.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We've disrupted their command structure, undermined its propaganda, took out half of their senior leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: But a new Bloomberg report says the U.S. is exaggerating Islamic State casualties. Quote, "The war against the Islamic State has killed thousands of fighters and even some mid-level battlefield commanders. But the organization's senior leadership and nerve center remain largely untouched."
And John Brennan isn't painting a rosy picture either. Here's the CIA director earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: ISIL has basically been a phenomenon that has snowballed. We see Boko Haram inside Nigeria pledging allegiance to ISIL. We see these different franchises, in Libya or in South Asia and other areas, in Egypt, that are trying to get on the band wagon of this phenomenon. And so this is a worrisome global movement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: You know, Dana, there always seems to be this conflict between what the administration is saying and then what military and intelligence officials are saying. And then sometimes even within the administration you have a disconnect. So what's going on here? Are they misleading the public? Are they worried about their national security, political legacy? What's happening?
PERINO: It is hard to understand, because I think more troubling is the internal administration complex. Basic facts.
John Allen, who was the first person we saw there, General John Allen, there's a Wall Street Journal weekend interview that he did about a month ago. And he painted a pretty positive picture, pretty optimistic. I finished reading it, and I thought, well, maybe things aren't so bad.
A day later, Richard Engel, the NBC correspondent, said none of this is actually happening. Or basically poured cold water and said actually things are much worse than they are admitting.
Today it is reported that, after four years of civil war in Syria -- this is the anniversary -- 14 million children are displaced or living in refugee camps or trapped in this cycle of violence.
And I maintain that, had America showed a little bit of leadership when President Obama drew the red line and decided not to cross it or to let it be crossed, that we -- that it's shame on America for not doing more at the time. And I don't know now how we get out of it. Because they're so conflicted, and it does seem that the administration is so worried about not getting -- not having a good story out there about ISIS that they are spinning. And then the facts are coming in from reporters who are on the ground.
BILA: You know, Eric, how can we effectively -- how can we expect them to effectively craft a policy when we're talking about, you know, potential involvement in areas and what people are arguing boots on the ground or send aid to this person or that person? How can we expect them to do that properly if we can't even expect them to get on the same page from within the administration about what's actually going on?
BOLLING: Good point. We talked yesterday about John Kerry saying we can defeat ISIS if we really wanted to right away, but we're not going to get trapped in that. Really? So what are we doing here?
Again, we keep the numbers on a day-to-day basis under 2,800 airstrikes total over eight months we're playing games with ISIS in Iraq and Syria, 2,500 per day in the war with Iraq. If you want to do it, just do it. We know where they are. We know where their command center is. We know a lot of where they're training. We have maps that show us where ISIS is. So go bomb ISIS. Go do -- go aggressive. Stop saying, "Well it's working" and then we're kind of -- look, you're pregnant or you're not. Let's get pregnant with these people and finish it.
GUTFELD: Have sex with them?
ROGINSKY: Up for that?
BILA: What about this union, though, of ISIS and Boko Haram now? Does that change things in terms of what we should or shouldn't be doing? Or are we basically on the same page?
GUTFELD: Beautiful. It's like "The Bachelorette" for beheaders.
BILA: Classic (ph).
GUTFELD: We keep using this term "disruption." And it's like we took out their cable, but it's back up and running. The world is basically, metaphorically has a bad case of termites. And you don't disrupt termites; you eliminate them.
The challenge of the bombing is finding out where they are without hurting all the people that they're terrorizing, which is why inevitably, you're going to have to have boots on the ground. You're going to have to have intelligence, and you're going to have to have spotters. You're going to have to have people down there training. That's what war is.
But if you get stuck in the argument with, well, "It's boots on the ground, versus no boots on the ground," you're actually going help the enemy, because no one's going to make the decision. It's also a shame that we don't have our best minds in Hollywood creating our own brutal propaganda, aimed at marginalizing and humiliating ISIS. If they could just get the rider from the Comedy Central roasts to do stuff on ISIS and send it to ISIS.
PERINO: They'd do great.
ROGINSKY: I agree with you on boots on the ground. But you know, they'd have to be Arab boots on the ground. That's what I want to see. I want to see -- and Eric, you and I agree on this. I want to see Saudi Arabia. I want to see Qatar. I want to see...
GUTFELD: But we have to be in charge. Sorry.
ROGINSKY: That's fine. That's fine. But I don't want American boots on the ground. You know what's going happen? We're going to radicalize these people all over again. You kill these ones, the next generation is going to be radicalized.
PERINO: If we go we'll radicalize more people?
ROGINSKY: If we go? If we kill them? Listen, we went into Iraq...
PERINO: I just don't believe that argument. I disagree with that argument. America is not causing radicalization.
ROGINSKY: No, no, no. Listen, we're going to go there and radicalize them against us. It should be the Arabs' problem, not ours. They should be taking the lead.
BILA: Before we do anything maybe the administration can figure out where they stand on the issue and explain it to us.
GUTFELD: That's too much to ask.
BILA: Up next, hey ladies, when a man holds a door open for you, it's chivalry. Right? Well, a surprising new study says not so fast. It may be sexist. We'll have a debate when "The Five" returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Doing nice things for people is evil. More specifically, doing nice things for women, if you're a man, is evil. That's the conclusion from Judith Hall, a professor in being miserable, who claims men who hold doors open for women or smile at them practice a vile behavior called benevolent sexism.
To quote Princess Poo Pants, "Benevolent sexism is like a wolf in sheep's clothing that perpetuates support for gender inequality among women." What a mindless mix of buzz words and cliches.
The implication, if a woman appreciates such behavior, she's too dumb to see the harm, unlike Judy who calls it insidious. Yes, insidious. The most overused word in today's world. It's a way of saying something is bad even if you can't see its badness. Its very invisibility makes it insidious. Shut up!
Judy's work isn't insidious. It's old. It's boring. It's wrong. For it brands a central engine of civil society, good manners, as oppressive. This at a time when we really good use more niceness in society.
Take a look at what went on at McDonald's the other day in Brooklyn. A group of girls beating the crap out of another girl while men happily look on. So maybe it's me. But vicious violent girls freak me out more than a smiling male.
But in a world that conjures up benevolent sexism, that brutality might be a victory. Because when girls start acting like boys, and boys stand by and cheer, they call that progress.
All right. Ladies first.
ROGINSKY: Here it comes.
GUTFELD: Julie, is benevolent sexism real or some kind of weird mania created by a researcher?
ROGINSKY: Someone who wants to get funded by the benevolent sexist society?
GUTFELD: Exactly.
ROGINSKY: Bring it on if it's real. I have this new policy, I swear. I have this new theory. If you don't open the door for me, that's the last time we go on a date. My new thing.
PERINO: Everybody be on notice.
ROGINSKY: I don't want to hear it any more.
GUTFELD: Only date doormen.
ROGINSKY: I don't want to hear it anymore. I'll go a step further. If you're not going to offer to pay for dinner I'm not going out with you. And if I make more money than you, I'm sick of it. I want to be treated like a lady, which I may not deserve all the time, but I still want to be treated that way.
GUTFELD: That's bigoted against armless men.
ROGINSKY: It is. It is.
GUTFELD: All right. Jedediah...
BILA: Yes.
GUTFELD: ... the trick here is, if you're a researcher, create a term and then fulfill the term with examples. Benevolent sexism.
BILA: Yes. And they do it all the time. This would be a course. This would be a college course.
GUTFELD: Right.
BILA: You'd have some feminist, you know, left-wing lady that would make all of the guys afraid to open doors.
One of the things on this list is if you are cold and a guy offers you his jacket...
GUTFELD: Yes.
BILA: ... then that's benevolent sexism. It's insanity. But it happens - - it's happening all across the country. And you have guys that are afraid to be guys now. Because they're afraid that if they give me the jacket, I'm going to say, "Well, what? You think I'm a woman so I'm cold, and I need your jacket?"
Yes. I'm cold, and I need your jacket.
GUTFELD: Women are cold all the time.
BILA: It's true.
GUTFELD: They are constantly cold. It's just the way -- it's the way the world is, Eric. If we're not allowed to be nice to women...
BOLLING: You said ladies first. Dana gets to go first.
GUTFELD: All right.
BOLLING: Dana gets to go first -- or next.
GUTFELD: I have a good question for you.
BOLLING: All right.
GUTFELD: My question is if guys can't do nice things, what's the point about us? Isn't that why we're here, to be nice?
BOLLING: Yes. Yes. I let ladies off the elevator first. I hold the door open. I don't think -- what, you call triggers in colleges. Now there's triggers for...
GUTFELD: Trigger warnings.
BOLLING: Trigger warnings. That's going to be a problem. That's going to be sexist. It's going to be racist. It's going to be whatever. Just relax. Can I just do this very quickly? So I was texting...
PERINO: You're right. I think it was Julie.
BOLLING: You're right. Dana, I have a side bet that -- can you hold up your phone? Can you take camera one? Take camera one. All right. All right.
PERINO: It was. It was Julie's phone.
ROGINSKY: What? What was the bet? What was the bet?
BOLLING: There was a phone in the shot during your monolog.
PERINO: I was not being very chivalrous by pointing it out.
GUTFELD: Well, that was interesting, and now I've completely lost my train of thought. OK. Do you think researchers like this are miserable to be around?
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: I mean, can you imagine?
PERINO There are so many of these studies and so stupid. And I think it was earlier this week that you made such a great point, that they have to justify getting a degree in gender studies so they have to then produce a paper.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: That's what you do in your career and in academia so that you can succeed to create these stupid things.
I love chivalry. I love -- I love being treated like a lady. At the White House, when I worked at the Bush White House, you never had to carry your own bag.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: People opened the doors. My husband is like that. My sister's husband is like that. And I would imagine that you teach your son to be like that.
BOLLING: Absolutely.
PERINO: Right?
BOLLING: He's on a date with his girlfriend's parents this weekend, and we're going through all that stuff.
BILA: I'm so glad you're doing that, because the millennials, the younger generation, those guys, they don't know what they're doing.
PERINO: Are you dating them?
BILA: Well, you know, I'm a cougar.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: That's the reality show. "Catch a Cougar," like "To Catch a Predator."
GUTFELD: So are you, like, in a well-pointed kitchen, standing there and having a cocktail, and some person comes in...
ROGINSKY: No, no, no. It's women in their 40s and 50s in bars, and they are literally trolling for 25-year-old men.
GUTFELD: I think everybody should be treated like a lady, including men. I'm sexist.
PERINO: I know you like to be treated like a lady.
ROGINSKY: You like to be treated like...
GUTFELD: There's a club downtown. All right. Eighty bucks an hour.
Directly ahead, Mike Tyson has some advice for life, and we're going to cover it. Apparently, it's Friday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROGINSKY: Mike Tyson has had a lot of ups and downs in his life, to say the least. In a new documentary the former boxing champ chronicles his roller coaster ride to fame, including how he enjoyed poverty growing up before achieving success in the ring. Iron Mike reveals the lessons he learned from defeat in a candid interview on "The Today Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE TYSON, FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: You have to look at defeat as a bad day in the office. Defeat is a form of winning, if you acknowledge the lesson of defeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROGINSKY: Tyson also reflects on his days as the bad boy of boxing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you look back on some of the scenes from the old Mike Tyson and say, who is that guy? Do you recognize him?
TYSON: I don't recognize him that much. I know in order to survive, I had to be that guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you feel you cut that old guy loose? There's no chance he'll come back?
TYSON: Without that guy I would never be here. Without him I'm nobody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROGINSKY: The tattoo from the old Mike or the new Mike? I'm just curious.
Greg, you have been fired from one or 20 places.
GUTFELD: Yes.
ROGINSKY: Do you think that actually made your life better as a result?
GUTFELD: Absolutely. But this is the last guy I would go to for sage advice. I mean, does anybody remember what he said about Sarah Palin? About the back of the head, which I can't even repeat the whole quote.
I think producers have a short memory span when they're choosing stories about people to go to for advice. The best advice for Mike Tyson: become a famous boxer so you can get away with almost everything.
ROGINSKY: Well, you think it's that or you think he just endeared himself to people, Eric, because of "The Hangover" and other movies, where he's sort of become this cultural icon? In reality, this is a guy who spent time in prison for rape.
BOLLING: I'm not sure he's a cultural icon. So he had a couple of good roles in those movies. But he continues to blow himself up. He had a big interview in Canada where he started, you know, dropping F-bombs all over the place. They had to walk him out of there.
I agree. Why do we even listen, looking up to Mike Tyson? He was a bad you know what in the boxing ring for about three years, and then it just fell apart for him. That's not an icon. He's got nothing -- I have nothing to learn from him.
ROGINSKY: I don't know, actually, Dana. Do you think somebody like that can rehabilitate himself? He seems to have gotten his act together. He had, obviously, a really rough period.
PERINO: I do. If you look at Michael Vick, that may be a good -- another good example of that.
But I don't know if this lesson applies to everyone. So I don't know if John Kerry would agree, right, that it was better to lose in 2004. I think that it could apply to some life lessons that are applicable but not all.
ROGINSKY: That's true. Thanks for getting the John Kerry dig in.
PERINO: I waited for it all day.
ROGINSKY: What do you think? I mean, do you think it's actually better to have huge setbacks like that? He obviously had setbacks...
BILA: I do. Right.
ROGINSKY: ... when he spent time in prison, so quite a setback.
BILA: I mean, I'm not a huge -- I'm not a Tyson fan for many reasons, as we've talked about. But he's right about that. I mean, defeat makes you strong. In a culture now where everyone has to be a winner, we're giving trophies away to everyone, everyone has to win, I don't think kids know the value of winning, because they never lose. So I think that he's right.
Everything that I -- when I used to run track, I had to lose to understand the value of winning a race. And I think that's a good point. Even if you don't love him, he can be right every now and then.
ROGINSKY: Good point. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I've got a little friend over here. I would like to go first. You've got to look at this video. I have a good friend. Her name is Louise Shillue. She's the daughter of Tom Shillue. Many of you have met him. See this popular video we're showing that. That is a Vizsla like my Henry. Sorry. Bless his heart, Henry. Rest in peace. Jasper. Sorry, Jasper. That's a Vizsla trying to get a hash Brown.
Now Louise Shillue is very creative, very smart. She wrote, directed this whole play starring herself, and I think it was so sweet. She made it just for me and had Tom Shillue, who sometimes sits in for Greg here and sometimes hosts "Red Eye." Great comedian. I give her four stars, best acting, best wardrobing, and a billion stars for creativity.
So thanks, Louise. And thank you, Greg, for this.
We're going to explain in a moment. All right. Eric, you're next.
BOLLING: OK. Very quickly, I'm going to be hosting "O'Reilly" tonight. Stick around. It's going to be a good one. Ann Coulter is there, and she's fired up. But it's Friday, so it's time for...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
GRAPHIC: Fool of the Week
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's easy. This time it was really easy. MSNBC host Ed Schultz says we should disarm the cops in Ferguson. After the cops are shot he said -- he went further. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: What about disarming the police? What about just having them carry night sticks and the authority to arrest? This may be an off-the-wall question, but do the police need to be there? I mean, if they're -- if they're on a target, do the police need be there while these peaceful protests are taking place?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: So say something foolish, double down on that foolishness, makes you, Ed, the "Fool of the Week."
PERINO: All right. Nicely done. Julie, you get to go next.
ROGINSKY: Watch this. Literally, I almost cried when I saw this. You've got to watch this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT DOWNEY JR., ACTOR: Ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
DOWNEY: Great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Each one looks the same.
DOWNEY: Actually I think yours might be better than mine. God, this is even cooler than I thought. Oh, look at that. It's a marriage of robotic technologies. Bang. Nailed it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROGINSKY: So this little boy, Alex, needs a robotic arm and a man named Albert Minero (ph), a student at Central State, I think in Florida, came up with this, which I think is wonderful. And thank you for Robert Downey Jr. for doing this for this little boy.
PERINO: That was so nice of him.
BILA: Aw.
PERINO: Very sweet. I love it.
All right. Jedediah.
BILA: Anyone who knows me knows that I love dogs and cats. This is an amazing video. To set it up, Bose (ph), a dog, and Jasper -- I love the name, Dana -- a cat, they have spent ten days apart. And look what happened when they were reunited.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CAT MEWING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Look at this.
BILA: Greg, don't get too excited now. Amazing. People would say animals don't have feelings. They have feelings.
GUTFELD: First gay marriage and now that.
All right. Easter is coming up. This is a Peep. It's like 27 calories. You know what this is made out of? Human flesh. It's disgusting. Actually, that's for you.
PERINO: Oh, thank you.
ROGINSKY: Thank you.
PERINO: That's it for us on "The Five." Have a great weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday. "Special Report" is next.
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